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I finally realize something from Sasuke's character before the Sasuke betrayal arc. Sasuke being unlikeable is Kishimoto's intention.

Also Sasuke from an interview from Kishimoto himself says he's despicable and boring because he's perfect and unteachable. And you can't relate of feel something for the character because he's emotionless and very predictible.

So if theres a reason Kishimoto hates Sasuke(made Sasuke to be hated), this is it IMO.

Do you agree?

Kishimoto almost certainly does not hate Sasuke, but yes, he almost certainly designed his path with Sasuke being hated in mind; first we were supposed to like him, and then have that turned around and replaced with dislike, just as betrayed by him as Naruto was to an extent. With the Karin incident reinforcing it.

No.

Kishimoto created Sasuke to be the foil and main rival of Naruto. Him being hated by certain Naruto readers is just like every single character out there that is hated/disliked by certain people.

If Kishimoto hated Sasuke as you believe, he would not like drawing Sasuke, which he in fact does.

O.o Thats odd, becuase Kishi has in the past has said that Sasuke is his favourite character in Naruto.

And definately no. I can agree with Q99. In the beginning Sasuke is a very human character, with vulnerabilities and weaknesses. He's standoffish, but has some very cool bits. Like when he and Naruto fought the water clones, mastering chakra climbing, when he jumps in front of Naruto to save him from girlboy and in the Forest of Death. You don't give characters people are supposed to hate cool bits. We're supposed to actually think hes pretty damn cool until teh betrayal. Thats what makes it so damn good when he betrays Naruto, cuz he's almost betraying the reader as well. Part one Sasuke is one of the best rival figures I've seen for that. Part two is good up until the Itachi fight, then he just goes batshit insane. And not the good kind. I have no idea what Kishi's trying to do with him now.

Originally posted by killermover

Also Sasuke from an interview from Kishimoto himself says he's despicable and boring because he's perfect and unteachable

That was from an interview on why he doesn't get training arcs like Naruto does, and he didn't say despicable, just that watching Sasuke train would be boring.




Yea (well, I'd put the dividing line at the Kage fight, he hadn't yet broken as-of say the Killerbee one), and even then he's clearly supposed to be going insane; Sasuke is undergoing a breakdown.


And even though he's not likable any more, I'm still curious where he goes next.

^^ My post was directed at killermover, not Q99.

I agree with Q99 as well. Taka Sasuke was probably written with the intention of being disliked by the reader.

That does not mean that Kishimoto hates Sasuke however. If he did, he'd kill him off. At least, that is what I would do if I were the writer and I hated a certain character in my work of fiction.

Actually yeah, in the Killerbee fight he actually goes out of his way to save Karin. I really don't know what the **** happened after that.

Sasuke's character in truth is one of the more effective ones in my opinion based on how much he's changed and in the way he's changed. He's not like Naruto, who only changes by maturing and growing stronger. Sasuke literally grows by having his conception of life changing all the time. Many individuals(Orochimaru, Itachi, Madara) play on his lust for power and his role as an avenger, and use it to manipulate him. It's actually quite normal that he has become the way he has in my opinion.


As for Kishi hating him, I doubt it. He likes drawing Sasuke and centering him a lot to the main plot. Doesn't seem to be that negative a way of treating a character.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually yeah, in the Killerbee fight he actually goes out of his way to save Karin. I really don't know what the **** happened after that.

He simply descended further into 'darkness'. It's shown a lot actually.
In the Kirabi fight, he realizes the true value of his team-mates, which helped him to unlock Amaterasu. Once he gets to Danzou however, his hatred continues to grow and it is shown through Susanoo's development.
His willingness to kill is also another example.

Rght now, Kishimoto likely wants the reader to dislike Sasuke. He probably plans to redeem Sasuke (in the eyes of the reader) somehow. Hopefully by having him work with Naruto to stop Madara.

While saving Karin from Bee helped him unlock Amaterasu's powers, hatred helped him unlock Susano'o, and the more hatred he felt, the more powerful it got right in front of him.

Ultimately, or at least right now, Sasuke is concerned with results more than how he gets them, and in the kage fight he realized hatred could get him revenge, and at the same time feeling more hatred made him want revenge more. That's something that Madara and his own powers encouraged.

Originally posted by Q99
Kishimoto almost certainly does not hate Sasuke, but yes, he almost certainly designed his path with Sasuke being hated in mind; first we were supposed to like him, and then have that turned around and replaced with dislike, just as betrayed by him as Naruto was to an extent. With the Karin incident reinforcing it. Editors. The ediotrs make Kishimoto do things beyond his control. He admitted in an interview the direction of Sasuke's character had just been set in motion due to editor control.

Just like most things, Sasuke's character is written for the sake of the plot not the integerity of Kishimoto's own direction.

Originally posted by Nephthys
O.o Thats odd, becuase Kishi has in the past has said that Sasuke is his favourite character in Naruto.

And definately no. I can agree with Q99. In the beginning Sasuke is a very human character, with vulnerabilities and weaknesses. He's standoffish, but has some very cool bits. Like when he and Naruto fought the water clones, mastering chakra climbing, when he jumps in front of Naruto to save him from girlboy and in the Forest of Death. You don't give characters people are supposed to hate cool bits. We're supposed to actually think hes pretty damn cool until teh betrayal. Thats what makes it so damn good when he betrays Naruto, cuz he's almost betraying the reader as well. Part one Sasuke is one of the best rival figures I've seen for that. Part two is good up until the Itachi fight, then he just goes batshit insane. And not the good kind. I have no idea what Kishi's trying to do with him now. Kishimoto's favorite character is Naruto and Shikamaru.

And Sasuke is hated because the author can't decide how to execute his character in a consistant more professional way, he's admitted that he just makes up things as he goes with Sasuke and never really tries to develop Sasuke into a dynamic character because he has no emotions or motivations outside of his revenge.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
No.

Kishimoto created Sasuke to be the foil and main rival of Naruto. Him being hated by certain Naruto readers is just like every single character out there that is hated/disliked by certain people.

If Kishimoto hated Sasuke as you believe, he would not like drawing Sasuke, which he in fact does. Sasuke is the most hated character in Japan and the world. Sasuke haters have explained why Sasuke is one of the most poorly written character in the manga and the quality of the manga is dropping because of him.

Kishimoto created Sasuke off the spur of the moment because his editors suggested him a rival for naruto. Sasuke is a editors play thing for the manga. While Kishimoto's true love is for Naruto and the Hokages.

No, he created Sasuke as a direct attack on you killermover.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, he created Sasuke as a direct attack on you killermover. I agree, he's a trap.

Originally posted by killermover
Kishimoto's favorite character is Naruto and Shikamaru.

And Sasuke is hated because the author can't decide how to execute his character in a consistant more professional way, he's admitted that he just makes up things as he goes with Sasuke and never really tries to develop Sasuke into a dynamic character because he has no emotions or motivations outside of his revenge.

I don't think you understanding how plotting works.


What he's done with Sasuke is far, far from inconsistent or undeveloped, and while he's changed the plan with him, that doesn't mean he doesn't put a new plan in it's place. Quite the opposite, it's clear that he does.



Sas definitely has emotions and motivations other than revenge too, but seeing them washed beneath the hatred and subsumed is one of the big things meant to cause a reaction in the fans.

Originally posted by killermover
Sasuke is the most hated character in Japan and the world.

Well, yea, he's a villain, and a massive troll in how he became a villain, we're supposed to hate him.

It was a huge bait and switch.



And not everyone agrees, far from it.

I think people confuse 'hating the character' with 'the character is bad.' At the least, you seem to.



No, he was not created at the spur of the moment, he was simply written in the last version, during which many other things were added like the basic plot as we know it.


I agree with NemeBro; he was written as an attack for you.

Originally posted by killermover
Sasuke is the most hated character in Japan and the world. That's a pretty bold statement.

Umbridge shits on him in that regard imo.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That's a pretty bold statement.

Out of just Naruto characters I think it's probably right. After all, consider the competition, pretty much just Orochimaru and Madara. Oro's been dead for awhile, and Madara hasn't had as much time to build hatred.

Well, and people who hate the other main characters like Naruto and Sakura.

Originally posted by Q99
I don't think you understanding how plotting works.


What he's done with Sasuke is far, far from inconsistent or undeveloped, and while he's changed the plan with him, that doesn't mean he doesn't put a new plan in it's place. Quite the opposite, it's clear that he does.



Sas definitely has emotions and motivations other than revenge too, but seeing them washed beneath the hatred and subsumed is one of the big things meant to cause a reaction in the fans. Yes I do, Sasuke has to fail at everything to see how much he's lost everything. It's a badly done establishment especially if he wasn't evil to begin with.

Sasuke's purpose is to be a pawn to everyone and learn that Naruto is better than him in every way. His motivations are fueled by a lingering emotional response that he's the best there is and his clan are gods.

That is something I call " shoehorning" a character when he's down. And Kishimoto expresses how he doesn't favor Sasuke as much as other characters, he is getting more attention to up the stakes for Naruto's character and it's all the editors string pulling.

Sasuke has nothing but angst and arrogance about him, he's a one demensional symbol and plot device, no character what so ever. Of course Kishimoto says we're not supposed to relate to Sasuke, we're supposed to relate to Naruto.

I think he's aware that Sasuke is pissing people off, he's not ignorant of his fans. Thats why people praised the Naruto vs. Pain arc more than the Sasuke vs. Itachi arc.

Originally posted by Q99
Out of just Naruto characters I think it's probably right. After all, consider the competition, pretty much just Orochimaru and Madara. Oro's been dead for awhile, and Madara hasn't had as much time to build hatred.

Well, and people who hate the other main characters like Naruto and Sakura. Sasuke might be the most hated Naruto character, but he did not specify that, he just said fictional characters in teh WORLD.

Go read Naruto again- especially the beginning, becuase you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Originally posted by killermover

Sasuke has nothing but angst and arrogance about him, he's a one demensional symbol and plot device, no character what so ever. Of course Kishimoto says we're not supposed to relate to Sasuke, we're supposed to relate to Naruto.

And his growing more attached to Team 7 and later Hebi, only to push them away? His confusion when confronted with Naruto's unwillingness to give up? His transition from emotionless under Orochmaru to rage-crazed and barely able to keep himself together under Madara?

There's more to him than you admit. Granted, it's all meant to piss you off, but there's facets there.




Also? Because it's totally purposeful, which I don't think you get.



The Sasuke/Itachi fight was pretty awesome, though....

You've pushed this idea of "Kishimoto hates Sasuke/doesn't think him through," before, and no one agrees with it.


The writing process simply isn't that simple, a last minute/haphazard/etc. character would not turn out like Sasuke, there's too much visible planning.

You're externalizing your own dislike of him and projecting it onto Kishimoto's motives.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Umbridge shits on him in that regard imo.

Aizen >

Originally posted by killermover
Sasuke is the most hated character in Japan and the world.

You have data to back this up?
Not that it would matter anyway, seeing as a 'hated' poll is worth about as much as a character popularity poll.

Originally posted by killermover
Sasuke haters have explained why Sasuke is one of the most poorly written character in the manga and the quality of the manga is dropping because of him.

You make it seem as if their logic is superb when it likely is not.
If anyone is a poorly written character in Naruto, it is Hinata. She has absolutely no place in the Naruto verse.
The same would almost apply to (current) Sakura. Her development has been reduced to a secondary character status, and her relevance in the plot right now is barely significant.

Originally posted by killermover
Kishimoto created Sasuke off the spur of the moment because his editors suggested him a rival for naruto. Sasuke is a editors play thing for the manga.

Completely irrelevant. Kishimoto did not plan out every single detail for Naruto's development before he began writing. He has obviously come up with ideas for Naruto in the midst of the actual run.
Even if Sasuke was created in the spur of the moment (which I doubt), he as a character had been incorporated far too well into the plot (reason for my doubt). He's also the second most important character in the story, and no amount of whining from you or the haters is going to change that.

Originally posted by killermover
Sasuke has nothing but angst and arrogance about him, he's a one demensional symbol and plot device, no character what so ever. Of course Kishimoto says we're not supposed to relate to Sasuke, we're supposed to relate to Naruto.


A one-dimensional character in Naruto would be Hinata (before her fight with Neji). Current Hinata is also a one-dimensional character, seeing as she has barely had any development to speak of. Any version of Sasuke is far more complex than those versions of Hinata.
The one time Hinata had any development in P2 was an actual plot device, seeing as how she was what brought about Naruto's most significant transformation into the Kyuubi.

Another one-dimensional character would be Hidan. If he weren't such an annoying badass and the dude who killed one of the most awesome characters in Naruto, I'd see him (as a character) to be a waste of time.

I've disliked Sasuke because he beat characters I liked. I've disliked Sasuke because of things he actually DID in the manga. I've never disliked him because I felt like he was poorly written.

I.E., hate the character but like the characterization.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
If anyone is a poorly written character in Naruto, it is Hinata. She has absolutely no place in the Naruto verse. Hey now.

Shut up.

Originally posted by Q99
You've pushed this idea of "Kishimoto hates Sasuke/doesn't think him through," before, and no one agrees with it.


The writing process simply isn't that simple, a last minute/haphazard/etc. character would not turn out like Sasuke, there's too much visible planning.

You're externalizing your own dislike of him and projecting it onto Kishimoto's motives. Except Kishi said the ideal rival was supposed to be someone opposing the main lead with little humanity or lack of character.

Your misinterpeting Kishimoto's perspective and priorites. The editors made Kishimoto make a rival, and the editors own Kishimoto. Sasuke being at the centerfold of the manga now is something the editors made Kishi do. Most of the plot is about Naruto reguardless, Kishimoto just filled in blanks with Sasuke so Naruto's story can be insightful and longer.

Editors planned for Hebi to. Kishimoto planed for Hebi to die. But Sasuke needed characters to make his focus seem less boring.

And no you're substancial opinions don't mean jack since I already refuted them.

How do you seem to know everything that Kishi thinks, plans to do, or wanted to do?

Originally posted by killermover
Except Kishi said the ideal rival was supposed to be someone opposing the main lead with little humanity or lack of character.

Your misinterpeting Kishimoto's perspective and priorites. The editors made Kishimoto make a rival, and the editors own Kishimoto. Sasuke being at the centerfold of the manga now is something the editors made Kishi do. Most of the plot is about Naruto reguardless, Kishimoto just filled in blanks with Sasuke so Naruto's story can be insightful and longer.

Editors planned for Hebi to. Kishimoto planed for Hebi to die. But Sasuke needed characters to make his focus seem less boring.

And no you're substancial opinions don't mean jack since I already refuted them.

Source of Kishi saying this? Because lack of character doesn't really fit Sasuke. And the kid is more human than Naruto, the walking talking rainbow bridge of Hope and Goodness.

Editors offered a suggestion(a good one at that) so they own Kishi? lol realize for the last time that the manga is called Naruto. Of course it's going to be about Naruto and how he changes people and such. Doesn't dismiss the effort that goes into giving Sasuke his own story.

Proof that the editors planned for Hebi and that Kishi resented their presence? Or just another opinion?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hey now.

Shut up.

Good boobs =/= Good character.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Good boobs =/= Good character. I liked Hinata before she really had boobs.

So shut up.

I would agree that Kishimoto is a gigantic ****** who might as well kill her off because he's too much of a ****ing loser to do anything with her, but her actual character? I like it.

The premise for Hinata's character isn't a bad one. She's just not shown enough to be expanded upon as a character. Exploring more of her family issues would have helped this but we never get that. So at the moment, she's still just considered the Naruto obsessed shy yet determined young girl. Which is not as bad as it could be.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I liked Hinata before she really had boobs.

So shut up.

I would agree that Kishimoto is a gigantic ****** who might as well kill her off because he's too much of a ****ing loser to do anything with her, but her actual character? I like it.

Twas a joke. I liked her too... before the dark times. Before The Fanboy.

Also, theres a decent fanfiction where Naruto joins team 8 instead of Kiba. Hinata's pretty good in it.

Does she end up getting railed by Gamabunta? I think I read that one.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hey now.

Shut up.

She's interested in Naruto. uhuh

I wish she were a Tsundere.

If he did then I would dissapoint him xD. Sasuke is my favorite
character in all of naruto ._. I've always loved him lmfao xD.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Does she end up getting railed by Gamabunta? I think I read that one.
......Wait.....WHAT?!

Originally posted by Q99
Kishimoto almost certainly does not hate Sasuke, but yes, he almost certainly designed his path with Sasuke being hated in mind; first we were supposed to like him, and then have that turned around and replaced with dislike, just as betrayed by him as Naruto was to an extent. With the Karin incident reinforcing it.

it actually worked sasuke was my fav character

I bumped due to the new poll results. 2nd place? Must be something that has to do with Crazy Sasuke kun trying to kill Karin? Suuuuure not a coencidence that Naruto first place due to all his development at the Pain arc riiiiiiight?

Kishimoto must be pleased Sasuke isn't the most popular character anymore.

Originally posted by killermover
I bumped due to the new poll results. 2nd place? Must be something that has to do with Crazy Sasuke kun trying to kill Karin? Suuuuure not a coencidence that Naruto first place due to all his development at the Pain arc riiiiiiight?

Kishimoto must be pleased Sasuke isn't the most popular character anymore.
Yes, obviously being the 2ND PLACE indicates the depths of unpopularity he has sunk.

Basically, it sounds like you're unwilling to accept a world where he isn't number one. Number two is not bad. Number two means that he beats out 99% of the characters in popularity.

I don't see anything weird about the title character being the most popular character... that's what you'd EXPECT.

Ohnoes gaiz Sasuke is only teh second most popular character in Japan.

Isn't that just awful?

Originally posted by killermover
I bumped due to the new poll results. 2nd place? Must be something that has to do with Crazy Sasuke kun trying to kill Karin? Suuuuure not a coencidence that Naruto first place due to all his development at the Pain arc riiiiiiight?

Kishimoto must be pleased Sasuke isn't the most popular character anymore.

Holy shit. A drop from 1st place? God knows that means Sasuke is very hated huh? It's worth noting that yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Naruto got higher in terms of popularity due mostly to the bull crap Pain arc and this Chosen One garbage that I wish did not exist.

Humor me and explain why?

Will point out that the attacks on Hinata in this thread made me giggle when I looked back on them.

Sasuke hasn't shown up in 45 chapters/4 volumes/much of a year might have something to do with it too.

Yeah, the recent chapters might have a reason for it as well. What with Sasori and Deidara returning. Itachi too for that matter.