Batman (Bruce) vs Steve Rogers (No SSS)

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Stoic
Recently Steve Rogers (formerly known as Captain America) beat several guys that had the Super Soldier Serum in their blood streams. How well would Steve do against Bruce without the serum, now that we know that he didn't need it, to take out guys superior to him in all ways except combat ability.

No gadgets, or shield.

Who would win?

SamZED
Spite. Bruce megastomps.

Bouboumaster
Wayne wins. A non-metahuman Rogers doesn't have the strenght and stamina advantage that would give him the victory over his more skilled and more intelligent opponent. Wayne win 8/10. The 2/10 of Rogers is for his will.

Juntai
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Wayne wins. A non-metahuman Rogers doesn't have the strenght and stamina advantage that would give him the victory over his more skilled and more intelligent opponent. Wayne win 8/10. The 2/10 of Rogers is for his will. Batman's will and resolve >>

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by Juntai
Batman's will and resolve >>

Dude, it's Captain America!

Omega Vision
Bruce stomps. Out of curiosity though what are non-SSS Cap's physical stats like? Olympic or just athletic?
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Dude, it's Captain America!
Dude, it's Batman!

Parmaniac
laughing

marwash22
There's an argument that Bruce would beat Steve w/ SSS, so it's only logical that Bruce would stomp the shit out of Steve sans SSS.

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Bruce stomps. Out of curiosity though what are non-SSS Cap's physical stats like? Olympic or just athletic?

Dude, it's Batman!

Will is Cap's claim to fame!

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by marwash22
There's an argument that Bruce would beat Steve w/ SSS, so it's only logical that Bruce would stomp the shit out of Steve sans SSS.

I do not agree on the fact that Wayne > Rogers with SSS

marwash22
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
I do not agree on the fact that Wayne > Rogers with SSS I don't know why you would agree since that statement was never made. I said there's an argument to be made that Bruce could beat Cap... never said Bruce > Cap.

753
Batman crushes flagboy's every bone

vansonbee
Batman is way experience compared to the dopes Steve fought against.

With this major handicap, taking into account Steve combat experience, he might take 1/10 against Bruce, and thats on a good day.

CosmicComet
With the Serum, Cap should get it 7/10.

Without it, Bruce 6/10.

No bias, I like them equally. No gadgets or shield as per the OP, I'm assuming they are in an environment where nothing can be used as well?

AsbestosFlaygon
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Bruce stomps. Out of curiosity though what are non-SSS Cap's physical stats like? Olympic or just athletic?

Steve was a skinny, meak chum pre-SSS.
With a body like that, he is definitely nowhere near athletic.

Even an amateur MMA fighter could most likely kill him.

marwash22
Originally posted by CosmicComet
With the Serum, Cap should get it 7/10.

Without it, Bruce 6/10.

No bias, I like them equally. no bias? Going by you statement that Steve would beat Bruce 4 times out of 10 without SSS... you either have a bias or you're ignorant. bruce and Cap are damn near physical equals when Steve has the SSS, without it, Steve would be at a serious strength/speed/stamina disadvantage. Also, Bruce is the better MA.

Bruce > Steve (no SSS) 10/10.

SasuOna
10/10 batman
Steve is like a weak kitten without the SSS

CosmicComet
Originally posted by marwash22
no bias? Going by you statement that Steve would beat Bruce 4 times out of 10 without SSS... you either have a bias or you're ignorant. bruce and Cap are damn near physical equals when Steve has the SSS, without it, Steve would be at a serious strength/speed/stamina disadvantage. Also, Bruce is the better MA.

Bruce > Steve (no SSS) 10/10.

Nah. Bruce is not on par with Rogers with the Serum. The dude is strong enough to throw the shield fast enough to catch up to a missile.

And I suppose without it, I don't think Batman is better than Rogers at MA, but is stronger and faster by more than enough to make up for it.

marwash22
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Nah. Bruce is not on par with Rogers with the Serum. The dude is strong enough to throw the shield fast enough to catch up to a missile. they're both peak-human. I'd give Steve only a slight physical advantage w/ the SSS.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
And I suppose without it, I don't think Batman is better than Rogers at MA, but is stronger and faster by more than enough to make up for it. It's not really a matter of opinion, it's a fact that Bruce is a better fighter than Cap.

Bentley
It's well known that Steve one-shots Batman with the serum. shifty

SasuOna
Originally posted by Bentley
It's well known that Steve one-shots Batman with the serum. shifty

How is that possible when Batman has gotten hit by a bloodlusted Superman and still lived?
It would take a lot more than 1 hit.

marwash22
Originally posted by SasuOna
How is that possible when Batman has gotten hit by a bloodlusted Superman and still lived?
It would take a lot more than 1 hit. i guess you didn't notice the shifty eyes.

Lord_Talron
honestly, there is an argument for steve without the super soldier serum. i think its ju-jitsu, might not be. but anyways, this martial arts style benefits you MORE the more tiny and weak you are compared to your opponent

marwash22
that's a pretty weak argument. Steve would get ktfo before he ever got the opportunity to throw Bruce. Also, it's not like Bruce is some scrub who can't counter a throw or submission attempt.

This is spite.

753
There are many martial arts styles devoted to turning an apparent disavantage in size or strengh into a tactical advantage that can destroy the opponent (killing people who are stronger than you is the core of most martial arts after all). The problem for CA is that batman has mastered all of them. It's not really BM's stats that give him the win it's his MA

Stoic
Originally posted by CosmicComet
With the Serum, Cap should get it 7/10.

Without it, Bruce 6/10.

No bias, I like them equally. No gadgets or shield as per the OP, I'm assuming they are in an environment where nothing can be used as well?

You are correct.

Lord_Talron
Originally posted by 753
There are many martial arts styles devoted to turning an apparent disavantage in size or strengh into a tactical advantage that can destroy the opponent (killing people who are stronger than you is the core of most martial arts after all). The problem for CA is that batman has mastered all of them. It's not really BM's stats that give him the win it's his MA if his stats arent giving him the win here are you saying that caps martial arts skill is mentionably lower than bats?

marwash22
Bruce's MA skills ARE superior to Caps, but the reason a normal fight between the two would be a split is due to Cap's slight physical advantages. Here, it's a total stomp for Bruce because he has both better MA ability and better physical stats.

Stoic
Originally posted by marwash22
Bruce's MA skills ARE superior to Caps, but the reason a normal fight between the two would be a split is due to Cap's slight physical advantages. Here, it's a total stomp for Bruce because he has both better MA ability and better physical stats.

What is Steve's present condition in Avengers Prime? Does this story take place before or after Steve is re-injected with the serum? If not, at normal human levels he took it to a hall of at least 40 - 50 Asgardian Elves with ease.

Just saying.

753
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
if his stats arent giving him the win here are you saying that caps martial arts skill is mentionably lower than bats?

Yes. But more importantly, they are more than enough to counter CA's own martial arts that could overcome the gap between his non SSS stats and batman's.

BruceSkywalker
Bruce destroys Rogers will little effort

Stoic
Originally posted by 753
Yes. But more importantly, they are more than enough to counter CA's own martial arts that could overcome the gap between his non SSS stats and batman's.

A Wrestler or practitioner of grappling stlyes, will always beat a Kick Boxer, or Muay Thai expert. An expert at Kick Boxing or Muay Thai will always beat a Boxer. The circle goes round and round. A person does not need to know 200 forms of MA (which is impossible to master in a lifetime.) In actuality the more forms a person would know the weaker that the forms would be. 2 - 4 solid forms will take 200 un-mastered ones any day of the week, Krav Maga, and Judo is all a person would technically need to master in order to dominate any Mixed MA tourney in this day and age.

marwash22
smh.

753
Originally posted by Stoic
A Wrestler or practitioner of grappling stlyes, will always beat a Kick Boxer, or Muay Thai expert. An expert at Kick Boxing or Muay Thai will always beat a Boxer. This is simply not true.



1. We're talking about comics and not real life. BM is a master of dozens, maybe hundreds, of styles.

2. I think current MMA fights show otherwise and regardless, whatever single style may float to the top in MMA competitions if one ever does, this means nothing about real life combat. Those fights impose limitations on fighters' behavior that reduce the efficiency of certain styles while increasing that of others.

A master of actually combat oriented arts, be them modern military hybrids like kombato and krav maga or ancient traditions like eagle claw and kali-silat could cripple and kill MMA fighters in seconds without such restritions, it would come down to reaction times and personal competence.

AsbestosFlaygon
Somebody post the scan of Steve with that doctor with the SSS injection.

Steve was a frail, sickly weakling before being amped by the serum.
It's clear as day once you see it on-panel.

The toothpick became stronger when the serum heightened his stats.
It also heightened his mental faculties, thus he quickly learned different MA.

753
Yes, but I don't think he lost memory, competence or body mass, when the serum stopped working.

AsbestosFlaygon
Point is Steve is fodder against Batman without the SSS.

This is like Bill Nye VS Fedor Emelianenko.

Stoic
Originally posted by 753
This is simply not true.


I don't see why it is not, the point of grappling styles are used to pin an opponent and remove the opponents ability to effectively strike. Krav Maga or other striking forms are used more effectively when standing, when combined with more grappling oriented styles, one would develop a truly devastating and fluid form.

Of course these are comics and not real life, but still BM knowing more than a dozen is pushing it into the realms of stupidity. Besides MA is an invention, and as inventions go, the more that they evolve, the better they become. Shyt blow darts is a form of MA it's not like it will do you any good from up close right? My meaning is that not all of those supposed MA's that BA knows are practical to use in a fight.

Just saying. I really don't know who would win between the two of them, I'll just keep reading the responses. Just remember my point of 100 vs 4-5 does not mean a clear cut victory.

CosmicComet
You said always. That was the problem.

Stoic
Originally posted by CosmicComet
You said always. That was the problem.


Not really, technically speaking out of 100 fights a Tai Kwon Do master should lose all 100 to a Jiu Jitsu master. If he can not strike, and is pinned and submitted then it is over. No?

CosmicComet
No he shouldn't lose all 100 unless its the same two people with unchanging relative skill levels, physics and athleticism for all 100 fights.

Jiu Jitsu guys don't have a guaranteed ability to take down the striker before being KO'd by a well timed knee or uppercut. If/When they are on the ground of course, its all but done.

marwash22
this is NOT a RL fight. These are dudes with superhuman physical stats... of which, in this particular fight, Cap doesn't have, but Bruce does. Bruce rapestomps Steve without SSS.

Also, please stop disrespecting and outright lying when it comes to Bruce/Batman. Saying he hasn't mastered various forms of MA should be enough to consider you a troll. sneer

CosmicComet
We got off on a tangent. We know what the thread is about.

He was just lamenting that its impossible to be a master of every damn art the planet in actuality.

Where would you have the time to even if you had nothing else going on in your life?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by CosmicComet
We got off on a tangent. We know what the thread is about.

He was just lamenting that its impossible to be a master of every damn art the planet in actuality.

Where would you have the time to even if you had nothing else going on in your life?
Comic book humans, in addition to being able to become ridiculously fast, strong, and durable just from vigorous exercise also have much greater capacity to learn a lifetime's worth of knowledge in a particular skill or discipline in the time it takes a RL human to get their Associates of the Arts Degree.

Learning every MA in the world before hitting 40 isn't really that ridiculous in the context of a comics world.

Try learning every MA in the Universe before turning 20 as with Karate Kid from the Legion Comics.

753
Originally posted by Stoic
Not really, technically speaking out of 100 fights a Tai Kwon Do master should lose all 100 to a Jiu Jitsu master. If he can not strike, and is pinned and submitted then it is over. No? Right.. and what makes you think he can't strike? Why do you assume the jiu-jitsu fighter will manage to take the tae-kwon-do fighter to the ground and successfully finalize? He can just get punched in the throat, kneed in the balls or kidneys, elbowed in the temple and go down. All sparring styles have counters to being grabbed, such as evading the grappler for one. Eagle-claw kung-fu is a stand-up style specially effective in dealing with ground fighters, although it is rich in gripping and joint locks itself.

It's nonsense to assume either fighter can dictate how and where the fight will play out, simply becasue one is a grappler.

rotiart
Hrm. I'm going to make the argument that currently if you remove the SSS from captain American the only difference it would make no real difference to him.

In the story arc with those boys that went through the physical training and health diet that captain america went through had super human stats without being given the serum... Basically the same training regime that cap does is why they/he was so fit... Taking the serum out of caps body at this point would leave cap with an a peak human body.. But his ability to forego the exhaustive stuff due to the SSS is gone..

When spiderman loses his serum he isn't a complete weakling for example...

I'd say unless anyone has evidence to dhow otherwise that "removing" the SSS from cap currently makes him a 90 lb weakling I don't think we can assume he does...

Black bolt z
Wayne.

AsbestosFlaygon
Originally posted by rotiart
Hrm. I'm going to make the argument that currently if you remove the SSS from captain American the only difference it would make no real difference to him.

In the story arc with those boys that went through the physical training and health diet that captain america went through had super human stats without being given the serum... Basically the same training regime that cap does is why they/he was so fit... Taking the serum out of caps body at this point would leave cap with an a peak human body.. But his ability to forego the exhaustive stuff due to the SSS is gone..

When spiderman loses his serum he isn't a complete weakling for example...

I'd say unless anyone has evidence to dhow otherwise that "removing" the SSS from cap currently makes him a 90 lb weakling I don't think we can assume he does...
Um... CA wasn't even physically fit before being given the SSS.
He was weak, and was a test subject for the SSS.

Unfortunately, I do not have the scan of him being administered the serum. Try searching for CA's origin.

Silent Master
And in SOP when he had the serum removed via blood transfusion, he didn't turn back into a 90lb weakling.

rotiart
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Um... CA wasn't even physically fit before being given the SSS.
He was weak, and was a test subject for the SSS.

Unfortunately, I do not have the scan of him being administered the serum. Try searching for CA's origin.

... I know captain Americas origin. The serum change him from a 90lb weakling to a peak specimen then they put him through a six month training program... Supposedly the same thing that the young avengers kid wet through or whatever thatbkids name was...

And case in point spiderman became super powerful after having the spider bite but even after he loses his powers he does lose the regular muscle he gained...

Lord_Talron
Originally posted by CosmicComet
You said always. That was the problem. hes right actually. martial arts is ALL ABOUT STANCE. grappling takes it to the floor and makes it impossible to rely on your stance. once the ma'er loses his stance; its over

godking
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Somebody post the scan of Steve with that doctor with the SSS injection.

Steve was a frail, sickly weakling before being amped by the serum.
It's clear as day once you see it on-panel.

The toothpick became stronger when the serum heightened his stats.
It also heightened his mental faculties, thus he quickly learned different MA. Steve without the SSs and being turned back inot the 90 lbs weakling he was before the SSS was still able to beat 3 goons amped by the SSS.

Current Steve without SSS still has his experience and training.

Bentley
I think it has been stated -maybe even retconned- that Steve was heavily trained even before taking the serum.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
hes right actually. martial arts is ALL ABOUT STANCE. grappling takes it to the floor and makes it impossible to rely on your stance. once the ma'er loses his stance; its over

No.

He's not right.

A grappler will not always get the fight to the floor before being KTFO, especially if the striker is fast enough to evade the shot, and or times a knee just right before the grappler ducks in for a shot.

I'd give a jiu jitsu black belt maybe 65/100 over a master muay thai fighter.

the ninjak
Originally posted by Bentley
It's well known that Steve one-shots Batman with the serum. shifty

True. But without the serum he was a skinny kid.
But for arguments sakes lets say current CA lost his gene amp and fought Bruce. Bats would win easily.....Steve adapted to fighting with his enhanced biology.
Bruce 9/10. Steve still pulls something out of his ass.

Bruce is a man who tuned his mind and body to human perfection.
Steve is a man with a genetically amped perfect biology who tuned it perfectly.
Take away the amp and Cap loses.

darthgoober
Without the SSS or gear we're just talking about two guys who are approximately equal in skill and physical ability, I say 5/10 split.

Originally posted by the ninjak
True. But without the serum he was a skinny kid.
But for arguments sakes lets say current CA lost his gene amp and fought Bruce. Bats would win easily.....Steve adapted to fighting with his enhanced biology.
Bruce 9/10. Steve still pulls something out of his ass.

Bruce is a man who tuned his mind and body to human perfection.
Steve is a man with a genetically amped perfect biology who tuned it perfectly.
Take away the amp and Cap loses.
Cap's lost the serium before without any kind penalty to his skills. In fact he brought down the entire Serpent Society without it...

the ninjak
Originally posted by darthgoober
Without the SSS or gear we're just talking about two guys who are approximately equal in skill and physical ability, I say 5/10 split.


Cap's lost the serium before without any kind penalty to his skills. In fact he brought down the entire Serpent Society without it...

Cap did win that MA forum tournament on AICN last year. Caused a bit of an uproar. I've never read instances where Steve lost his amp so my opinion can easily be swayed.

Did Cap still have his shield during this feat? cause his skills with it regardless of amp are awesome.

753
Originally posted by CosmicComet
No.

He's not right.

A grappler will not always get the fight to the floor before being KTFO, especially if the striker is fast enough to evade the shot, and or times a knee just right before the grappler ducks in for a shot.

I'd give a jiu jitsu black belt maybe 65/100 over a master muay thai fighter. Muay thai is actually pretty good to counter jiu-jitsu. They have to get within knee and elbow striking distance to do the take down and without stance defenses of their own that's pretty much a goner.

Lord_Talron
Originally posted by CosmicComet
No.

He's not right.

A grappler will not always get the fight to the floor before being KTFO, especially if the striker is fast enough to evade the shot, and or times a knee just right before the grappler ducks in for a shot.

I'd give a jiu jitsu black belt maybe 65/100 over a master muay thai fighter. its very unlikely that hes going to get k-o'd quickly at all. m-aers and grapplers are trained to take hits. i was talking to a mma-er the other day and he said concerning knockout punches you basically dont get knocked out. i mean how many times have you seen someone get k-o'd when they werent wide open?

753
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
its very unlikely that hes going to get k-o'd quickly at all. m-aers and grapplers are trained to take hits. i was talking to a mma-er the other day and he said concerning knockout punches you basically dont get knocked out. i mean how many times have you seen someone get k-o'd when they werent wide open?

You gotta stop believing mma shows are real combat. blows to the chin, throat, temples, solar plexus, kidneys can take you out of the fight even without ko, sometimes with a single hit. Not to mention eye gauging, fish-hooking, knee, wrist and elbow breaking etc. and of course, grapplers have weaker defenses against stand-up sparring blows.

the distinction here doesnt have anything to do with martial artists vs grapplers (who are also martials artists) but with ground vs stand up fighting (eagle claw for instance, is a stand up fight built arround trappings, joint locks and fractures). Neither one provides a clear advantage over the other and decent hybrids combine both.

AsbestosFlaygon
Originally posted by Silent Master
And in SOP when he had the serum removed via blood transfusion, he didn't turn back into a 90lb weakling.
Of course he won't.
He has already conditioned his body.
So even though the serum was removed, he still retains his physique and the MA skills that he has already mastered.

BTW, you guys are still missing the point.
I'll say it again: Steve was a 90 lb weakling before being administered the serum.
It is his original canon origin. I have no idea if it got retconned. But without seeing any proof about the retcon, I will have to side with the on-panel canon origin.

Spite thread. Bruce kills the chump.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by marwash22


It's not really a matter of opinion, it's a fact that Bruce is a better fighter than Cap.
No it not, in fact the writer of there cannon cross over right stated that batman comment was to imply that Capt was the more skilled of the two/

Warlord
Originally posted by marwash22
It's not really a matter of opinion, it's a fact that Bruce is a better fighter than Cap.

considering this a fact it's funny how many people think otherwise

Uriel005
You realize that there was a time when SSS got removed from Rogers and he was still fighting at about the same level... Rogers fights about the same level villains as Batman without any of the nifty gadgets he's got. 1v1 fist fight vs Batman Rogers takes it.

Bentley
You can compare Steve with the Serum against three steroid thugs and Steve without Serum against two. Just read the recent super soldier mini before assuming he's a chump.

rotiart
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Of course he won't.
He has already conditioned his body.
So even though the serum was removed, he still retains his physique and the MA skills that he has already mastered.

BTW, you guys are still missing the point.
I'll say it again: Steve was a 90 lb weakling before being administered the serum.
It is his original canon origin. I have no idea if it got retconned. But without seeing any proof about the retcon, I will have to side with the on-panel canon origin.

Spite thread. Bruce kills the chump.

.... So you are assuming the fight is against Steve Rogers before ever taking the SSS....
Not current Steve Rogers without the SSS?...

godking
Originally posted by Bentley
You can compare Steve with the Serum against three steroid thugs and Steve without Serum against two. Just read the recent super soldier mini before assuming he's a chump. I read it pretty impressive work by Steve.

khazra
He does not become a 90lb weakling, the stipulation of the fight is not pre-SSS, it is if it is removed now. It's been removed before and he was still batman level physically.

Rogers is being massively underrated on a hand to hand level here.
His increased mental faculties from the SSS made him more able to adapt and learn than any human and he has literally hundreds of years of combat experience (Korvak Saga).

Even against the likes of Iron Fist who has superior stats to cap, cap has been untouchable (literally). He is marvel earth's no.1 hand to hand fighter.

Meanwhile there are plenty of characters who have equal stats to Batman who we know are better at MA (Shiva, Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon, Prime David Cain etc) on DC earth.

King Castle
without the SSS cap would still retain his physical stats he may tire quicker but his skills and physical strength is still there keeping him at peak stats.

Cap still would beat bats in h2h 7/10.

hell, Cap was still fighting at Olympic lvl when his SSS started to deteriorate and he started getting seizures and tiring in mid battle.

here he would suffer no adverse effects or poisoning if the SSS was just removed.

the ninjak
Yeah I'm sold Cap wins this fight.

SasuOna
Cap without the SSS has no advantages over batman and yes batman is a better fighter than Cap.

Batman is basically the best fighter in the DCU because hes smarter than everyone hes fighting.
Batman should take this easily.

psycho gundam
it depends on the outcome of his de-powering (whatever the op thinks i guess *shrug*)

- if he just loses his heightened stamina, eyesight, coordination, etc but retains his musculature he maintained throughout the years by extensive workouts and sparring, he'd give batman a good fight. he might win, he might lose, but he might lose more cause of the changes in his body that he's not mentally prepared for.

- if he's reduced to that feeb again, he's phucked

King Castle
cap was smacking around cross bones without the SS. erm

here is cap with a deteriorating SS..

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8582/841811-thunderstrike0403ns0_super.jpg

deterioration is worse then simply removing the SS

the ninjak
Originally posted by SasuOna
Cap without the SSS has no advantages over batman and yes batman is a better fighter than Cap.

No he isn't.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by psycho gundam
it depends on the outcome of his de-powering (whatever the op thinks i guess *shrug*)

- if he just loses his heightened stamina, eyesight, coordination, etc but retains his musculature he maintained throughout the years by extensive workouts and sparring, he'd give batman a good fight. he might win, he might lose, but he might lose more cause of the changes in his body that he's not mentally prepared for.

- if he's reduced to that feeb again, he's phucked

thumb up

khazra
As i stated in my post earlier, this is simply not true. I'm not talking about karate kid because we all know he's another level.
But a handful of DC earth characters have flat out been shown to be better fighters than batman.

That has never to my knowledge happened with cap.

Someone mentioned crossbones being beaten by cap without the SSS. Crossbones is underrated cause he loses to Rogers, Crossbones would possibly split with batman straight hand to hand. He's consistantly been better than for example Bane.

Bentley
I don't think Crossbones would split with Batman in straight h2h, but he can certainly pull some wins. Considering Bucky has defeated him before -Bucky is around Batroc/Crossbones level-, they would lose to Batman most of the time imo.

khazra
Bucky was established as a top tier hand to hand fighter incredibly quickly, has a class 10 arm with various tricks and one of the single best weapons in comics.
He's captain america for a reason.

Bentley
Originally posted by khazra
Bucky was established as a top tier hand to hand fighter incredibly quickly, has a class 10 arm with various tricks and one of the single best weapons in comics.
He's captain america for a reason.

Yeah, but I still think Bruce would beat Barnes more often than not. They are elite, just not evenly matched imo.

Deadline
Originally posted by Bentley
I don't think Crossbones would split with Batman in straight h2h, but he can certainly pull some wins. Considering Bucky has defeated him before -Bucky is around Batroc/Crossbones level-, they would lose to Batman most of the time imo.

I have to say Brubaker has made Crossbones look quite bad.

Bentley
Originally posted by Deadline
I have to say Brubaker has made Crossbones look quite bad.

In Crossbones defense, Barnes has a metallic hand.

Deadline
Originally posted by Bentley
In Crossbones defense, Barnes has a metallic hand.

and Cap has the SSS, Brubaker made him job.

Bentley
Brubaker's SSS is leagues above regular SSS if you know what I mean. Seriously, Rogers being a super soldier has never been as played as it has been recently -heck, he contained the full nova force with it, crazy showing-.

Deadline
Originally posted by Bentley
Brubaker's SSS is leagues above regular SSS if you know what I mean. Seriously, Rogers being a super soldier has never been as played as it has been recently -heck, he contained the full nova force with it, crazy showing-.

You're playing me. no expression Brubaker made Crossbones job end of.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Bentley
Brubaker's SSS is leagues above regular SSS if you know what I mean. Seriously, Rogers being a super soldier has never been as played as it has been recently -heck, he contained the full nova force with it, crazy showing-.
Well I recall that the Sentry's serum was once stated to be like Cap's serum "times one thousand". Since the Sentry has the power of one million exploding suns it stands to reason that Cap would have the power of a thousand exploding suns. stick out tongue

Bentley
Originally posted by Deadline
You're playing me. no expression Brubaker made Crossbones job end of.


I didn't say you're off, I just wanted to add my opinion on the serum. Johann schooled Barnes with Steve's body, Johann is uber but still.

Deadline
Originally posted by Bentley
I didn't say you're off, I just wanted to add my opinion on the serum. Johann schooled Barnes with Steve's body, Johann is uber but still.

Shaddup! durhulk

Daredevil1
Originally posted by Bentley
Brubaker's SSS is leagues above regular SSS if you know what I mean. Seriously, Rogers being a super soldier has never been as played as it has been recently -heck, he contained the full nova force with it, crazy showing-.


Obviously you never read many of Cap vol 3 books or early vol 4. Loeb's Cap vol 2(awful artwork) was a monster.

Or Millar's Cap in Civil War seemed like a beast. Bru SSS really isn't that different compared to many past writers. Bru's Cap is that classic good feel Cap.

Bentley
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Obviously you never read many of Cap vol 3 books or early vol 4. Loeb's Cap vol 2(awful artwork) was a monster.

Or Millar's Cap in Civil War seemed like a beast. Bru SSS really isn't that different compared to many past writers. Bru's Cap is that classic good feel Cap.


I've read Cap v2 and v3, not all the runs but several issues and there wasn't much crazy sh_t going on to be honest. Maybe I was just unlucky or something.

753
Originally posted by Bentley
Brubaker's SSS is leagues above regular SSS if you know what I mean. Seriously, Rogers being a super soldier has never been as played as it has been recently -heck, he contained the full nova force with it, crazy showing-. but ryder does that by himself all the time

Bentley
Originally posted by 753
but ryder does that by himself all the time


By spending his entire adult life exposed to the Nova force and becoming symbiotically dependant on it to properly survive. The Nova force is kind of his thing.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.