Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This is the end boss from the awakening from dragon's age vs. Link from Twilight Princess.

Who walks out of this one alive.

.......... Other than get killed at the end, what did Mother do?

Be in Dragon Age! What more do you need *****, a frickin' map?! Obvious Mother win is obvious.

Originally posted by NemeBro
.......... Other than get killed at the end, what did Mother do? What do you mean what did she do ? Did you fight her or not ?

I take it you think Link can beat her. Based on what ?

Strength, skill, and gear probably.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Strength, skill, and gear probably. He doesn't possess that much skill. He lacks experience and his feats of strength require the boots which limit his mobility greatly to the point of liability.

Originally posted by NemeBro
.......... Other than get killed at the end, what did Mother do?

That about sums it up.

Let's use some Quan-tum physics.

Mother need legs to move, and therefore is immobile naturally and can only move because of gear. Pathetic.

Yeah, not even physics. That's the beauty of the Quan-tum part.

This is the same Mother that got taken out by a tiny knife to the face? Yeah, I'm going to go a head and say Link wins this one. After all, the Master Sword is bigger than a knife. Oh, and it destroys evil, too, so that's a plus.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Let's use some Quan-tum physics.

Mother need legs to move, and therefore is immobile naturally and can only move because of gear. Pathetic.

Yeah, not even physics. That's the beauty of the Quan-tum part. She doesn't need to move to attack Link you silly little human.

Originally posted by The Scenario
This is the same Mother that got taken out by a tiny knife to the face? Yeah, I'm going to go a head and say Link wins this one. After all, the Master Sword is bigger than a knife. Oh, and it destroys evil, too, so that's a plus. The master sword when successfully wielded beats evil but it's not like Link is even going to ge past her tentacles now. Mother wins.

Yeah, I say this pathetic excuse of an end boss has no hope against Link's arsenal.

She was killed by a tiny knife to the neck.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Yeah, I say this pathetic excuse of an end boss has no hope against Link's arsenal. Link's arsenal ? His bow and arrows, sowrd an dwhat else makes him more effective than a party of four from dragon age with the weapons available to use on her exactly ?
Originally posted by NemeBro
She was killed by a tiny knife to the neck. After weakening her. Don't ignore the ya know boss battle prior to.

Why not? Every chance you get you ignore something about Link or Ganondorf. Like the fact that saying Link needs boots to lift things is entirely idiotic, or that refusing to acknowledge that Ganon was impaled in TP before he was given the Triforce of Power is just as dumb.

Besides the arsenal there's his strength which I'm guessing is more then the Dragon Age characters.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Why not? Every chance you get you ignore something about Link or Ganondorf. Like the fact that saying Link needs boots to lift things is entirely idiotic, or that refusing to acknowledge that Ganon was impaled in TP before he was given the Triforce of Power is just as dumb. Link does need the boots for his strength feats. I only say what the game backs up unlike you. I use common sense and apply it to how these characters are portrayed. If you don't have the boots the gorons simply wreck you and quite easily.

Dorf was impaled after he used the triforce and still died. So he can be impaled before and after and still sits there stunned and at his opponents mercy.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Besides the arsenal there's his strength which I'm guessing is more then the Dragon Age characters. What strength feats does Link have from tp ?

Tossing that boss Goron, 30-60 tons I think was settled. Have the Dragon Age guys got any strength to their name?

Actually Quan, you've failed at every occasion to realize what the boots actually mean. Instead, you opt to disagree with basic logic and insist that he requires them to lift things as opposed to stop heavy objects in motion like the game outlines.

And by what was he impaled? The Master Sword perhaps? The very same item used as a fail safe to the Trueforce?

I haven't played TP in a long time, and I don't want to. But if I recall, he was turned to stone. Something that also happened to him in Wind Waker, which I'm pretty sure he survived.

No stone in TP, and depending on what timeline you follow TP and WW are the last appearances of Dorf in each timeline so he may or may not have survived after.

Clip of Mother doing anything of mention?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Tossing that boss Goron, 30-60 tons I think was settled. Have the Dragon Age guys got any strength to their name? Which requires the boots to do meaning to have the strength to do that he must limit his mobility. If he does he is a sitting duck.Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Actually Quan, you've failed at every occasion to realize what the boots actually mean. Instead, you opt to disagree with basic logic and insist that he requires them to lift things as opposed to stop heavy objects in motion like the game outlines.

And by what was he impaled? The Master Sword perhaps? The very same item used as a fail safe to the Trueforce?

I haven't played TP in a long time, and I don't want to. But if I recall, he was turned to stone. Something that also happened to him in Wind Waker, which I'm pretty sure he survived. They are required for his strength feats. if he could do them unaided then you'd have a point but since he needs them I win.

The master sword was blockable against any knights and the sword previously impaled him. The triforce of power didn't make him any more durable he just resisted dying the first time so he gets impaled by any sword that comes his way.

He didn't turn to stone. I have no idea what you are talking about with this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They are required for his strength feats. if he could do them unaided then you'd have a point but since he needs them I win.

The master sword was blockable against any knights and the sword previously impaled him. The triforce of power didn't make him any more durable he just resisted dying the first time so he gets impaled by any sword that comes his way.

He didn't turn to stone. I have no idea what you are talking about with this.

No, actually, they are not. The actual strength feat is throwing the Goron. Stopping them is all you need the boots for. Though stopping them does also help his Strength case. So no, you don't win. You lose. You are the loser. Haha. HAHA! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Really? It didn't make him any more durable at all? Then I am forced to demand an explanation for him tanking Midna, Light Arrows, multiple hits to his body, even that weak spot. And technically, since your TP only rule is stupid I should demand the same from instances in other games.

Well I did make it clear I was unsure. Otherwise you would have a point. But since I made it clear I win.

link-rape

Quanchi needs to shut the **** up and actually provide a single feat of Mother please.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Clip of Mother doing anything of mention?

I could give you a clip of her being killed by a tiny knife to the face, but I don't really like to look at her and the video is NSFW.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Which requires the boots to do meaning to have the strength to do that he must limit his mobility. If he does he is a sitting duck. They are required for his strength feats. if he could do them unaided then you'd have a point but since he needs them I win.
I'm sorry did you just say you win?
No matter the point, reason or situation the fact is that boots made to increase weight cant make you physically stronger.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f278/katietiedrich/comic10.jpg
Graciously use before and still holds the point of what would happen with no strength. Image size be damned.

Tiny knife? Don't even think its worth viewing.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
No, actually, they are not. The actual strength feat is throwing the Goron. Stopping them is all you need the boots for. Though stopping them does also help his Strength case. So no, you don't win. You lose. You are the loser. Haha. HAHA! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Really? It didn't make him any more durable at all? Then I am forced to demand an explanation for him tanking Midna, Light Arrows, multiple hits to his body, even that weak spot. And technically, since your TP only rule is stupid I should demand the same from instances in other games.

Well I did make it clear I was unsure. Otherwise you would have a point. But since I made it clear I win.

link-rape Then show him throwing one with the boots. If you can do so then I will concede the point otherwise you just are a huge fan who really wants Link to be strong despite his actual portrayal in the game.

He isn't durable hence the two impalements and we didn't see what he did when the castle went down or what actually caused it. We did see how helpless he was both times he was impaled.Originally posted by NemeBro
Quanchi needs to shut the **** up and actually provide a single feat of Mother please. this is the problem. You argue based on feats alone whereas you ignore portrayals and abilities.

Originally posted by BloodRain
I'm sorry did you just say you win?
No matter the point, reason or situation the fact is that boots made to increase weight cant make you physically stronger.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f278/katietiedrich/comic10.jpg
Graciously use before and still holds the point of what would happen with no strength. Image size be damned.

Tiny knife? Don't even think its worth viewing. That's what would actually happen had he had heavier boots on irl unlike the game which made the feats possible. The point is without the added weight he can't beat a goron in anything.

Originally posted by BloodRain
No stone in TP, and depending on what timeline you follow TP and WW are the last appearances of Dorf in each timeline so he may or may not have survived after.

Clip of Mother doing anything of mention? Different timelines mean different dorfs only his actions from tp mean anything.


Did you play this game ?

The last appearance of Ganon in the child timeline is infact LoZ, from 1986. TP is much earlier, Ganon didn't die.

Ganon in the adult timeline is the exact same guy with the exact same powerset, anyway. There is no difference.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's what would actually happen had he had heavier boots on irl unlike the game which made the feats possible. The point is without the added weight he can't beat a goron in anything.

That's what would happen in real life because no one in real life is as strong as Link. There is a reason we use the Goron thing to prove that Link is strong.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The last appearance of Ganon in the child timeline is infact LoZ, from 1986. TP is much earlier, Ganon didn't die.

Ganon in the adult timeline is the exact same guy with the exact same powerset, anyway. There is no difference. Different timeline and no official word on anything really so this is just speculation.

Originally posted by The Scenario
That's what would happen in real life because no one in real life is as strong as Link. There is a reason we use the Goron thing to prove that Link is strong. Link isn't strong we see that when he wields the ball.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Different timeline and no official word on anything really so this is just speculation.

Link isn't strong we see that when he wields the ball. Actually, that is confirmed canon by Mitamoto himself. aLttP is officially a prequel to LoZ which is officially the last time Ganon is seen in the child timeline so far. We've had no games come after Zelda II.

We see Link is strong when he wields the ball and chain, which a normal man couldn't even lift. Also, he has strength feats, gtfo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Link isn't strong we see that when he wields the ball.

The Ball and Chain is indeed heavy. Though Link does weild it far faster and throw it much farther than the boss he got it from, and the boss couldn't even move a few feet. Still, Link is darn strong to do that, just like he throws the Gorons. Actually, the Ball is a little smaller than a Goron and made of solid steel (it looks like).

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, that is confirmed canon by Mitamoto himself. aLttP is officially a prequel to LoZ which is officially the last time Ganon is seen in the child timeline so far. We've had no games come after Zelda II.

We see Link is strong when he wields the ball and chain, which a normal man couldn't even lift. Also, he has strength feats, gtfo. Wrong he made a few comments way back when and has never ever confirmed anything. I think he ran his mouth off wasn't sure and never addressed it again.

haermm great, Quan thinks he knows more about Zelda than Nintendo.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
haermm great, Quan thinks he knows more about Zelda than Nintendo.

Who's surprised?

I'm waiting for the post from GK about the Zelda timeline - and yes, there are parts of it that are confirmed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wrong he made a few comments way back when and has never ever confirmed anything. I think he ran his mouth off wasn't sure and never addressed it again.
No, quan. TP was confirmed to be a direct sequel to OoT, by both Miyamoto and Aonuma. It takes place in the timeline created by Zelda sending Link back to his childhood. Young Link and Zelda convince the King of Ganondorf's intentions, and Ganondorf is imprisoned, tried, and sentenced to death, which is the cutscene in the middle of TP showing Ganondorf and the Sages. It is the same Ganondorf.

In fact, that's utterly unneeded anyway, as Ganondorf is the same through all games, and as the timelines diverge after OoT, Ganondorf in either timeline is the same Ganondorf as in OoT.

So you are utterly, completely wrong about Ganondorf, and you know little about the Zelda series. Go lay down before you hurt yourself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Then show him throwing one with the boots. If you can do so then I will concede the point otherwise you just are a huge fan who really wants Link to be strong despite his actual portrayal in the game.

He isn't durable hence the two impalements and we didn't see what he did when the castle went down or what actually caused it. We did see how helpless he was both times he was impaled. this is the problem.

Uh, it's been shown, for a long frickin' time. Dangoro. The very first Goron you even meet. About fifteen others as you make your way up to Death Mountain. And stop with that portrayal bullshit, really.

Good job avoiding explaining being shot with the light arrows and still having a body. And yeah, exactly, we didn't see what happened.

Good job ignoring facts, as well. You know, if I picked and chose what I wanted to discuss as well as you and BT I could make a case that just about any character used on this board isn't "portrayed" as very powerful or is the result of nothing but childish toonforce.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
haermm great, Quan thinks he knows more about Zelda than Nintendo. Post the link then which confirms it.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
No, quan. TP was confirmed to be a direct sequel to OoT, by both Miyamoto and Aonuma. It takes place in the timeline created by Zelda sending Link back to his childhood. Young Link and Zelda convince the King of Ganondorf's intentions, and Ganondorf is imprisoned, tried, and sentenced to death, which is the cutscene in the middle of TP showing Ganondorf and the Sages. It is the same Ganondorf.

In fact, that's utterly unneeded anyway, as Ganondorf is the same through all games, and as the timelines diverge after OoT, Ganondorf in either timeline is the same Ganondorf as in OoT.

So you are utterly, completely wrong about Ganondorf, and you know little about the Zelda series. Go lay down before you hurt yourself. Link. If timelines are different then it's a different Dorf. I mean if you don't understand a differing timeline is a different character then I can't help you.Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Uh, it's been shown, for a long frickin' time. Dangoro. The very first Goron you even meet. About fifteen others as you make your way up to Death Mountain. And stop with that portrayal bullshit, really.

Good job avoiding explaining being shot with the light arrows and still having a body. And yeah, exactly, we didn't see what happened.

Good job ignoring facts, as well. You know, if I picked and chose what I wanted to discuss as well as you and BT I could make a case that just about any character used on this board isn't "portrayed" as very powerful or is the result of nothing but childish toonforce. He can't overtake any of them until he equips the boots.

It's a gameplay aspect just like archdemon can survive a ballista, fire spells, forst spells, petrify spells, sword slashes, etc. We see that a sword can easily be implaed into him twice in two different cutscenes.

I don't ignore facts I embrace them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Which requires the boots to do meaning to have the strength to do that he must limit his mobility. If he does he is a sitting duck. They are required for his strength feats. if he could do them unaided then you'd have a point but since he needs them I win.

The master sword was blockable against any knights and the sword previously impaled him. The triforce of power didn't make him any more durable he just resisted dying the first time so he gets impaled by any sword that comes his way.

He didn't turn to stone. I have no idea what you are talking about with this.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the boots made it so he couldn't get knocked over. Him lifting was his own strength.

Originally posted by Coco292
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the boots made it so he couldn't get knocked over. Him lifting was his own strength. Being strong enough to stop the momentum was what he wasn't strong enough to accomplish. If you sumo without the boots he gets tossed around like a ragdoll. It's not a strength feat if he needs gear for it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Being strong enough to stop the momentum was what he wasn't strong enough to accomplish. If you sumo without the boots he gets tossed around like a ragdoll. It's not a strength feat if he needs gear for it. It's a strength feat when he lifts them.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's a strength feat when he lifts them. He needs the boots to do so if he could lift them or even push them without the boots (pushing is much easier than lifting by a lot) then you'd have a point.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If timelines are different then it's a different Dorf. I mean if you don't understand a differing timeline is a different character then I can't help you.
If you're the one who can't grasp that either timeline follows OoT, you're the one who can't be helped. Stop ignoring the content of what's written simply because you don't agree with it.

It's okay for you to be wrong, quan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's what would actually happen had he had heavier boots on irl unlike the game which made the feats possible. The point is without the added weight he can't beat a goron in anything.

Physics, kiddo. If you're so sure that the Boots make him lift it please explain how heavy footwear can do anything but make you heavy?
Its proven that Link has super human strength. Now, again, strength of Dragon Age?
Originally posted by Coco292
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the boots made it so he couldn't get knocked over. Him lifting was his own strength.
See, a junior grasps it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Different timelines mean different dorfs only his actions from tp mean anything.

Did you play this game ?
Same Dorf different timelines.
Would I be asking to see proof if I've played that game?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The last appearance of Ganon in the child timeline is infact LoZ, from 1986. TP is much earlier, Ganon didn't die.

Ganon in the adult timeline is the exact same guy with the exact same powerset, anyway. There is no difference.
Was going by this and that Dorf was revived (?) in the other games.

The only time they actually mention ressurecting him in the games is Zelda II, IIRC.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The only time they actually mention ressurecting him in the games is Zelda II, IIRC.


and the Oracle games but let's not go there its obvious that TP Ganon is the same Ganon from Oot.

Originally posted by Coco292
and the Oracle games but let's not go there its obvious that TP Ganon is the same Ganon from Oot. IIRC, in the Oracle games he was sealed away, not slain. mmm but yeah.

Quan is either especially dense, or just intentionally ignoring facts. He's known for that.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
IIRC, in the Oracle games he was sealed away, not slain. mmm but yeah.

Quan is either especially dense, or just intentionally ignoring facts. He's known for that.


Oh I see well I'm new here but I can tell <_< oh and here

is revealed that the events of the two games were started by Twinrova in an attempt to resurrect Ganon.

http://www.zeldawiki.org/Ganon#Oracle_of_Ages_and_Oracle_of_Seasons

Then again it depends on the context they're using for ressurection so for all I know he may have been sealed but I don't play much Zelda xD

Originally posted by quanchi112
Being strong enough to stop the momentum was what he wasn't strong enough to accomplish. If you sumo without the boots he gets tossed around like a ragdoll. It's not a strength feat if he needs gear for it.

Insert Kevin Spacey video.

He is easily strong enough to stop them. He is not heavy enough. This is a concept you fail to grasp again and again.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
If you're the one who can't grasp that either timeline follows OoT, you're the one who can't be helped. Stop ignoring the content of what's written simply because you don't agree with it.

It's okay for you to be wrong, quan. You just told me they are all the same dorfs when there are different timelines. If the timeline varies then there are different dorfs. They all don't have the same experiences and memories meaning there are different dorfs.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Physics, kiddo. If you're so sure that the Boots make him lift it please explain how heavy footwear can do anything but make you heavy?
Its proven that Link has super human strength. Now, again, strength of Dragon Age?

See, a junior grasps it.


Same Dorf different timelines.
Would I be asking to see proof if I've played that game?


Was going by this and that Dorf was revived (?) in the other games. Video games don't have to make sense so please don't bring physics into this, sport. He can't contend with a single Goron under any circumstances without the boots meaning he needs them meaning he isn't strong enough to do so without them.

Bo could beat one as well with the boots he wasn't super strong either. This shouldn't be hard for you to grasp.

Ogres, archdemon, high dragon, golems, etc. They are all much stronger than a guy who can barely wield the ball and chain with two arms whereas the enemy who wields it easily with one arm.

If there are different timelines then there are different dorfs. You don't even understand what a different timeline means nor does anyone around here. If it's the same dorf then he should have all the memories of all previous zelda games as he has experienced them all which he hasn't hence different timelines.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
IIRC, in the Oracle games he was sealed away, not slain. mmm but yeah.

Quan is either especially dense, or just intentionally ignoring facts. He's known for that. I'm right like I always am. Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Insert Kevin Spacey video.

He is easily strong enough to stop them. He is not heavy enough. This is a concept you fail to grasp again and again. He isn't strong enough to stop them as he can't stop them without the boots. Blame it on gameplay mechanics.

Only a someone truly insecure about their intelligence says that they are always right or never wrong.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Only a someone truly insecure about their intelligence says that they are always right or never wrong. I usually am.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I usually am. I already know you are usually insecure about your intelligence Quanchi, no need to convince me.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I already know you are usually insecure about your intelligence Quanchi, no need to convince me. You can say whatever you want to it doesn't affect me. You on the other hand have already included my name in your profile.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can say whatever you want to it doesn't affect me. You on the other hand have already included my name in your profile. No need to get so defensive man, it's alright, we can't all be born with normal IQs.

Stopping Gorons is not only about strength, Quan. Neither is Sumo wrestling.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No need to get so defensive man, it's alright, we can't all be born with normal IQs. I'm not defensive it's you who always wants to make this personal. I don't let things get to me like you is all. Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Stopping Gorons is not only about strength, Quan. Neither is Sumo wrestling. He can't stop them without the boots which has always been my entire point.

Yeah, and it's a stupid point because it does not prove that Link needs his boots on his feet to LIFT things.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yeah, and it's a stupid point because it does not prove that Link needs his boots on his feet to LIFT things. The gorons aren't feats of strength. Name something else he did strength wise which proves he's really strong without a gear accomplished feat.

Lifting them.

Tripping Fyrus helps out with that. Smacking Blizzeta around is less impressive, but still pretty good considering the ice's size and how fast it gets knocked around.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Lifting them. He can't do so without the boots so once again what has he done strength wise without the boots.

Quanchi how do boots give someone the strength to lift something?

I dont recall it ever being stated in the game that they give him strength.
They just happen to be really heavy.

So what makes you think they somehow improve his strength?

XD. No Quan, no. We've already clarified that. He can in fact lift Gorons without his boots. What he cannot do is stop them when they are in motion. You know, because he is not as massive. Fizziks, son.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You just told me they are all the same dorfs when there are different timelines. If the timeline varies then there are different dorfs. They all don't have the same experiences and memories meaning there are different dorfs.

It's difficult to explain this without spoiling Ocarina of Time for you. Howver, that game is upwards of 12 years old and you've had ample time to complete it. I don't remember whether or not you ever did finish it, but whatever. At the end of Ocarina of Time, Zelda sent Link back in time to warn the King about Ganondorf, so he was arrested and Twilight Princess happened. This is known as the Child Timeline. The other timeline (Adult) doesn't matter for this thread, as it leads to Wind Waker (and that Ganondorf is in both the beggining and end of Ocarina of time.
So, Ganondorf appears in the beggining of Ocarina of Time, but before he got the Triforce he was arrested. He was executed and finally got the Triforce in Twilight Princess. The Ganondorf in the beginning of Ocarina of Time is the same one as the one in Twilight Princess, the only difference being that he is younger in Ocarina of Time. Same guy there, same Triforce of Power.




If you're ignoring physics again, then nothing really matters. What's holding everyone's atoms together, for example? Oh, right, the laws of physics. But regardless of that, you are still failing to grasp the difference between stopping a Goron and lifting a Goron. In order to stop it, Link must be prevented from moving, via weight, via the Heavy Boots and strength has little to do with it except holding the Goron. To lift a Goron, Link does not need any extra weight, as he is doing it through strength, picking it up and throwing it.



If Bo beat a Goron, he must be super strong. That's the only evidence, and it suggests that he is.



1. Link weilds the Ball and Chain fine, and does it much faster and throws it farther than the boss. He just carries it awkwardly.

2. The boss does not weild the Ball and Chain easily at all. He literally cannot move move than a few feet, and has to rest after every throw. Link moves faster while holding it, throws it farther, throws it harder, recovers it faster, and does not need to rest. That argument holds no water.



Technically true, since you did not have the same experiences yesterday as you did today, right? So you're a different person as you experienced different things. That's the same exact thing with Ganondorf. The one in Ocarina of Time and the one in Twilight Princess are the same person, with Ocarina of Time being yesterday and Twilight Princess being today. Twilight Princess Ganondorf did in fact experience every part of Ocarina of Time up to Link drawing the Master Sword. In the Child Timeline, he was arrested before Link got the Master Sword, but that Ganondorf is the same guy in Twilight Princess. The only Ganondorf that has different experiences is Wind Waker Ganondorf, but he's the one that was after Link got the Master Sword.

To summarize: Twilight Princess Ganondorf is the same guy as in Ocarina of Time. He's only different from the Wind Waker guy, though they all share the same Triforce of Power.



That's wrong. He is strong enough to stop a Goron without the Heavy Boots, but he is not heavy enough. When Link is weighed down, he can't be moved by the Goron. Once the Goron is stopped, however, the extra weight is not needed and Link can pick it up and throw it.

quan, the old ruling still stands, unless games specifically negate specific aspects of physics, for the purpose of discussion here at KMC Earth-like physics are understood to apply. You are not allowed to ignore them simply because they don't suit your opinion.

Originally posted by mechagoomba
Quanchi how do boots give someone the strength to lift something?

I dont recall it ever being stated in the game that they give him strength.
They just happen to be really heavy.

So what makes you think they somehow improve his strength? They make the feat possible. If he doesn't have them he cannot stop or even attempt to wrestle one he will simply get tossed out of the ring.

Bo knew how to defeat them as well and it wasn't because he was strong he had the necessary skill and the boots he wasn't some super strong stud either.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
XD. No Quan, no. We've already clarified that. He can in fact lift Gorons without his boots. What he cannot do is stop them when they are in motion. You know, because he is not as massive. Fizziks, son. When has he lifted a goron without the boots ?

Originally posted by General Kaliero
quan, the old ruling still stands, unless games specifically negate specific aspects of physics, for the purpose of discussion here at KMC Earth-like physics are understood to apply. You are not allowed to ignore them simply because they don't suit your opinion. That doesn't change the fact in the game he can't contend with a goron without the boots. He can't even properly beat one in a shoving match without the boots.

Originally posted by The Scenario
It's difficult to explain this without spoiling Ocarina of Time for you. Howver, that game is upwards of 12 years old and you've had ample time to complete it. I don't remember whether or not you ever did finish it, but whatever. At the end of Ocarina of Time, Zelda sent Link back in time to warn the King about Ganondorf, so he was arrested and Twilight Princess happened. This is known as the Child Timeline. The other timeline (Adult) doesn't matter for this thread, as it leads to Wind Waker (and that Ganondorf is in both the beggining and end of Ocarina of time.
So, Ganondorf appears in the beggining of Ocarina of Time, but before he got the Triforce he was arrested. He was executed and finally got the Triforce in Twilight Princess. The Ganondorf in the beginning of Ocarina of Time is the same one as the one in Twilight Princess, the only difference being that he is younger in Ocarina of Time. Same guy there, same Triforce of Power.




If you're ignoring physics again, then nothing really matters. What's holding everyone's atoms together, for example? Oh, right, the laws of physics. But regardless of that, you are still failing to grasp the difference between stopping a Goron and lifting a Goron. In order to stop it, Link must be prevented from moving, via weight, via the Heavy Boots and strength has little to do with it except holding the Goron. To lift a Goron, Link does not need any extra weight, as he is doing it through strength, picking it up and throwing it.



If Bo beat a Goron, he must be super strong. That's the only evidence, and it suggests that he is.



1. Link weilds the Ball and Chain fine, and does it much faster and throws it farther than the boss. He just carries it awkwardly.

2. The boss does not weild the Ball and Chain easily at all. He literally cannot move move than a few feet, and has to rest after every throw. Link moves faster while holding it, throws it farther, throws it harder, recovers it faster, and does not need to rest. That argument holds no water.



Technically true, since you did not have the same experiences yesterday as you did today, right? So you're a different person as you experienced different things. That's the same exact thing with Ganondorf. The one in Ocarina of Time and the one in Twilight Princess are the same person, with Ocarina of Time being yesterday and Twilight Princess being today. Twilight Princess Ganondorf did in fact experience every part of Ocarina of Time up to Link drawing the Master Sword. In the Child Timeline, he was arrested before Link got the Master Sword, but that Ganondorf is the same guy in Twilight Princess. The only Ganondorf that has different experiences is Wind Waker Ganondorf, but he's the one that was after Link got the Master Sword.

To summarize: Twilight Princess Ganondorf is the same guy as in Ocarina of Time. He's only different from the Wind Waker guy, though they all share the same Triforce of Power.



That's wrong. He is strong enough to stop a Goron without the Heavy Boots, but he is not heavy enough. When Link is weighed down, he can't be moved by the Goron. Once the Goron is stopped, however, the extra weight is not needed and Link can pick it up and throw it. I can't debate with you if you are going to bring oot into this. I told you time and time again I will go back to that game. I can't read any more of your posts unless you abandon all oot discussion.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I can't debate with you if you are going to bring oot into this. I told you time and time again I will go back to that game. I can't read any more of your posts unless you abandon all oot discussion.
So you concede defeat by technicality of refusing to debate. Thank you.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
So you concede defeat by technicality of refusing to debate. Thank you. No, I don't want to discuss the ending of oot because I haven't beaten it yet. I make this very clear. That's why I quit the twilight princess vs. lok debate.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I don't want to discuss the ending of oot because I haven't beaten it yet. I make this very clear. That's why I quit the twilight princess vs. lok debate.
If you choose not to debate, you forfeit. That's how debate works.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
If you choose not to debate, you forfeit. That's how debate works. If he drops his oot points I will continue to debate with him. I only quit reading his posts if he desists on oot I will re engage him.

OoT is relevant in discussions of TP, though; TP is basically OoT:2 and is a sequel. No one's fault or problem but your own if you aren't familiar with it.

Originally posted by Peach
OoT is relevant in discussions of TP, though; TP is basically OoT:2 and is a sequel. No one's fault or problem but your own if you aren't familiar with it. Not relevant for Link from tp so what's your point ?

If you want to discuss the Zelda Timeline, you have to discuss Ocarina of Time, as it the most important game timeline wise. You're the one that brought it up in the first place.

Originally posted by The Scenario
If you want to discuss the Zelda Timeline, you have to discuss Ocarina of Time, as it the most important game timeline wise. You're the one that brought it up in the first place. Ok, let's drop the whole timeline thing I don't want to debate oot at all until I complete it then we can rehash it.

I brought up alternate timeline as as being different dorfs because an alternate timeline means alternate versions unless one character experiences everything from each timeline and carries with him or her all the memories of those said experiences.

That was my initial point and then like always it spun out of control. I take my part of blame for this but drop it for now and re engage in the debate leaving all zelda discussion outside of this game alone.

WARNING: THIS VIDEO IS NOT EVEN SLIGHTLY WORK SAFE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTXJAN2UuVo&feature=related
3:10, we see the Mother killed by a tiny knife to the face. Truly pathetic. If Link just repeats that, he wins instantly.

Originally posted by The Scenario
WARNING: THIS VIDEO IS NOT EVEN SLIGHTLY WORK SAFE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTXJAN2UuVo&feature=related
3:10, we see the Mother killed by a tiny knife to the face. Truly pathetic. If Link just repeats that, he wins instantly. You can only do so after weakening her. You can't just throw a knife and kill her until you defeat and weaken her. If you throw a knife after weakening Link this would kill him as well.

Better, though still not worksafe, video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HYY-4Fg6_E

Mother solo'd without consumables. The player never comes close to dying, and the sword isn't even designed with the intent of smiting evil.

How is Mother supposed to be any danger to Link at all?

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can only do so after weakening her. You can't just throw a knife and kill her until you defeat and weaken her. If you throw a knife after weakening Link this would kill him as well.

Your bringing gameplay mechanics into something again, the "weakening" is irrelevant. She still gets killed by a knife/short sword.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Video games don't have to make sense so please don't bring physics into this, sport. He can't contend with a single Goron under any circumstances without the boots meaning he needs them meaning he isn't strong enough to do so without them.

Bo could beat one as well with the boots he wasn't super strong either. This shouldn't be hard for you to grasp.

Ogres, archdemon, high dragon, golems, etc. They are all much stronger than a guy who can barely wield the ball and chain with two arms whereas the enemy who wields it easily with one arm.

If there are different timelines then there are different dorfs. You don't even understand what a different timeline means nor does anyone around here. If it's the same dorf then he should have all the memories of all previous zelda games as he has experienced them all which he hasn't hence different timelines.

They do if they follow it pretty well, like it does. Plus we usually go by physics unless toonforce is involved. The boots don't give strength unless its stated. Which they're not. So they don't. End of.

Boots = anchor. Now that Bo's at a weight that he cant be flicked back all he needs now is the strength to push a 3 ton Goron. Keeping in mind that a strong person can push a 2 ton car, Bo pushing a 3 ton biped is not that big a deal. Pushing a Goron back only needs him to be maybe 2, 4 times stronger then an average strong person =/

First are they 30+ tonners? More importantly who cares? For that to be relevant either they would need to be in the fight against Mother or the characters have been shown to by physically stronger then them. If neither then it doesn't prove that Mother can resist Link's strength.

Split timeline which split in OoT thus there are two different Ganon's for the two timelines. TP is directly after one of those timelines, so as of TP Ganon has been in that and OoT only. Seeing as what you just described is a liner timeline I doubt you understand how any of this works.

Even I agree Link breaks Mothers neck. Mother can hardly take any punishment, its not like she even has many special powers e.g. time control or spells that could allow her to bypass he weakness.

All that's needed to get to that neck breaking part is to avoid slow moving tentacles which anyone conscious could do.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your bringing gameplay mechanics into something again, the "weakening" is irrelevant. She still gets killed by a knife/short sword. Yes, after being weakened. You can't just throw a knife at her and kill her you weaken her to the point of it and then she dies by something that would kill Link as well.

Originally posted by BloodRain
They do if they follow it pretty well, like it does. Plus we usually go by physics unless toonforce is involved. The boots don't give strength unless its stated. Which they're not. So they don't. End of.

Boots = anchor. Now that Bo's at a weight that he cant be flicked back all he needs now is the strength to push a 3 ton Goron. Keeping in mind that a strong person can push a 2 ton car, Bo pushing a 3 ton biped is not that big a deal. Pushing a Goron back only needs him to be maybe 2, 4 times stronger then an average strong person =/

First are they 30+ tonners? More importantly who cares? For that to be relevant either they would need to be in the fight against Mother or the characters have been shown to by physically stronger then them. If neither then it doesn't prove that Mother can resist Link's strength.

Split timeline which split in OoT thus there are two different Ganon's for the two timelines. TP is directly after one of those timelines, so as of TP Ganon has been in that and OoT only. Seeing as what you just described is a liner timeline I doubt you understand how any of this works. Boots are still required for the feat so I could care less about you ignoring the fact Link isn't strong enough without the boots to even push one out of the ring.

Their weight is speculation it's always
funny to see people try to assign real numbers to someone or something in a videogame.

Link isn't strong hence his handling of the ball and chain like he does. Link also isn't stronger than any knight he's pitted against he isn't stronger than basically anyone he fights. Never once have I seen his strength decide the outcome of any fight it's always due to his skill and artifacts.

You just agreed with me about there being two different dorfs meaning there isn't one experiencing everything the same.

Whether it's linear or not is irrelevant the fact there are different dorfs with different memories means it isn't one guy experiencing everything.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Better, though still not worksafe, video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HYY-4Fg6_E

Mother solo'd without consumables. The player never comes close to dying, and the sword isn't even designed with the intent of smiting evil.

How is Mother supposed to be any danger to Link at all? The player in dragon age would also beat Link.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, after being weakened. You can't just throw a knife at her and kill her you weaken her to the point of it and then she dies by something that would kill Link as well.


Well you can't just impale Ganondorf and kill him, either. You know, those four boss fights you just keep ignoring. That's a bit of a double standard if you think Ganondorf can just be impaled but the Mother can't just be stabbed.

Also, Link can take an axe to the face without any damage.
ELb4LbtGPXI

Originally posted by The Scenario
Well you can't just impale Ganondorf and kill him, either. You know, those four boss fights you just keep ignoring. That's a bit of a double standard if you think Ganondorf can just be impaled but the Mother can't just be stabbed.

Also, Link can take an axe to the face without any damage.
ELb4LbtGPXI You do have to weaken dorf to impale him more often than not. But it's definitely doable.

The blunt end struck him backwards. The video clearly shows this and one orcish big guy would be annihilated by an ogre or a hurlock alpha in dragon age.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, after being weakened. You can't just throw a knife at her and kill her you weaken her to the point of it and then she dies by something that would kill Link as well.


Theres hardly any damage on her, the guy just pulls out his short sword and sticks it in. Shes dead...

As i said, keep out the gameplay mechanics.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Theres hardly any damage on her, the guy just pulls out his short sword and sticks it in. Shes dead...

As i said, keep out the gameplay mechanics. She's weakened prior to, context.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You do have to weaken dorf to impale him more often than not. But it's definitely doable.

It's also doable to just stab the Mother.



That same blow knocked a giant boar unconcious and sent it flying. Post feats for the Ogres or Hurlocks, please, or at least any strength feats for the Mother, or else none of them could even damage Link with blunt force. And King Bulblin takes more punishment than nearly any other character in Twilight Princess excluding Ganondorf, and never dies.

Originally posted by The Scenario
It's also doable to just stab the Mother.



That same blow knocked a giant boar unconcious and sent it flying. Post feats for the Ogres or Hurlocks, please, or at least any strength feats for the Mother, or else none of them could even damage Link with blunt force. And King Bulblin takes more punishment than nearly any other character in Twilight Princess excluding Ganondorf, and never dies. Tentacles and you can't just stab her until you weaker her.

So he wasn't knocked out this blow didn't kill the boar did it so why act like it was anything other than a blunt force kind of blow to the head ?

Strength doesn't determine these fights you seem obsessed with it. Link didn't beat one guy in tp due to superior strength. Not one.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Tentacles and you can't just stab her until you weaker her.

How do you weaken her without stabbing her?



Because it establishes some darn good resistance. However, it still isn't quite as good as getting launched from a cannon in the sky to the ground.



Dangoro and Ganondorf. And I asked you for feats, why have you not acknowledged my request?

Originally posted by The Scenario
How do you weaken her without stabbing her?



Because it establishes some darn good resistance. However, it still isn't quite as good as getting launched from a cannon in the sky to the ground.



Dangoro and Ganondorf. And I asked you for feats, why have you not acknowledged my request? The boss fight which happened prior to.


It's blunt force not cutting resistance which you tried painting it as.

The cannon will shoot any paying customer through the air to the desired place Link isn't special. You are starting to really each at this point.

He beats dorf due to aid and skill.

Dangoro wasn't beaten due to strength also didn't he use the boots because without them he couldn't beat dangoro.


Look at her abilities not everything happens in a cutscene. You seem altogether lost here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The boss fight which happened prior to.


How do you not stab her in the boss fight?



I never implied anything of the sort, stop strawmanning.



And unless you can prove that any paying customer will actually survie the trip, Link is quite special.



Yes, and he will beat the Mother the same way.



Yes, he was. Link picked Dangoro up and threw him, thus using his strength in order to win.



Her abilities consist of tentacles (blunt damage Link is immune to) and some grubs. Maybe an energy ball or two. So Mother's tentacles can't damage Link and he can spin attack to destroy all of them. Another spin attack or normal strikes will kill the grubs. Link can reflect any energy balls with the Master Sword, then a simple Mortal Draw annihilates the Mother in one hit.

Originally posted by The Scenario
How do you not stab her in the boss fight?



I never implied anything of the sort, stop strawmanning.



And unless you can prove that any paying customer will actually survie the trip, Link is quite special.



Yes, and he will beat the Mother the same way.



Yes, he was. Link picked Dangoro up and threw him, thus using his strength in order to win.



Her abilities consist of tentacles (blunt damage Link is immune to) and some grubs. Maybe an energy ball or two. So Mother's tentacles can't damage Link and he can spin attack to destroy all of them. Another spin attack or normal strikes will kill the grubs. Link can reflect any energy balls with the Master Sword, then a simple Mortal Draw annihilates the Mother in one hit. You have to weaker her to get her to this point. You don't show up run up and stab her.

Yes you did you said he didn't bleed from this but why would he it's blunt force. Such a silly waste of a post.

So this guy designed a ride to kill those who ride it ?


I mean do you honestly think only Link can survive this and the intention is to kill it's customers ? This is why I don't trsut your opinion on anything you even try to twist the most easy to understand occurrences in games for pro zelda points. It's obvious this isn't designed to kill anyone nor is the character evil at all. Just stop.

Nah. Link doesn't possess the abilities of characters of dragon age and couldn't make it past the tentacles.

He can't pick him up without the boots if he uses the boots he is a sitting target.

So now blunt damage has no effect on Link because he weathered one attack ? I mean honestly the stuff you come up with is so fanboyish it's a wonder you coul dreally send it as a legitimate point and really think I will take this seriously or treat it as fact.

The mother can make Link go crazy and swing wildly due to her powers and does it usually to a party member or two. he is screwed here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You have to weaker her to get her to this point. You don't show up run up and stab her.


You weaken her by stabbing her. This is not hard to understand.



If you could quote me on that it's be great, because I rcall saying it didn't damage him at all. I said nothing about blood.



What are you talking about, though? There's no one running the cannon that goes to the city in the sky, and it was designed to launch birds, who would be able to slow themselves. There's second cannon in the city in the sky that fires downward, and no one runs that, either. Link is the only non-Ooccoo to use the thing.



Yeah, you're talking about the clown guy, whereas I'm talking about the completely different cannon that had to be rebuilt and was designed to fire tiny birds instead of humans. So, yeah, Link is the only human to use it, and he survives fine on both trips. Meaning his durability is through the roof and the Mother can't hurt him.



He's stronger than they are and weilds a sword that would cut through the Mother and her tentacles like paper. He'll kill her easily.



No, he can't stop him without the boots. Once stopped, he doesn't need any extra weight and can go ahead and lift and throw Dangoro.



Well, yes, since that's how evidence works. I posted a feat of Link's and a feat of the thing hitting him. You didn't post any feats of the Mother, so she currently hasn't displayed the strength necessary to hurt Link at all. Therefore, she can't until you post a strength feat.



Link has resistance to such effects in the form of the Master Sword and Triforce of Courage. And what is the name of this ability? The Dragon Age wiki doesn't mention it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Gameplay mechanics which happened prior to.


Corrected your post, your making a fool of yourself.

Although a fight does happen, the fact that she gets slashed by a tiny knife has no bearing on the situation.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Boots are still required for the feat so I could care less about you ignoring the fact Link isn't strong enough without the boots to even push one out of the ring.

Their weight is speculation it's always
funny to see people try to assign real numbers to someone or something in a videogame.

Link isn't strong hence his handling of the ball and chain like he does. Link also isn't stronger than any knight he's pitted against he isn't stronger than basically anyone he fights. Never once have I seen his strength decide the outcome of any fight it's always due to his skill and artifacts.

You just agreed with me about there being two different dorfs meaning there isn't one experiencing everything the same.

Whether it's linear or not is irrelevant the fact there are different dorfs with different memories means it isn't one guy experiencing everything.

Wow that's dense. Boots ≠ Arms but nice try. If you played the game of looked a little deeper you'd know all this by now. And Link knocking around a 300 ton ice mass with a ball and chain says otherwise to him having no strength.

Speculation through maths is taken as better proof then someone's word based off nothing. Its how it works when comparing things.

Can weild it with enough strength to knock that 3 story iceberg back at speeds. Y'know what, just for you Im gonna dig up a strength feat just for you with as little math as possible:
MeEEAFrRcgU
http://www.legendarystrength.com/feats-of-strength/chain-breaking/#
What this tells us is that a strong person can beak a #12 chain with small trouble and can break a #10 chain with difficulty, in his words 4x harder for 2 grades. That link also says that breaking a #6 chain is a superhuman feat. That would mean a #6 would be over 8x harder then a #10.
http://www.perfectionchain.com/images/singlejackmain.jpg
Now;
sGdBoWLGdUM
Knowing that Dorf is like 10ft tall. Those chains that held him would be #4 which he broke with less effort then that chap breaking a #12 in another vid. That comes with the conclusion that Dorf is 20x stronger then a fairly strong person...




Oh yeah the point of this is.. ''Never once have I seen his strength decide the outcome of any fight it's always due to his skill and artifacts''
Bx0Yfg6EasQ 50 seconds in.
Link is just above Dorfs strength. Seeing as how the Dragon Age people at best with no feats would be in the 'athlete' class, Link trumps them by far. There, a feat with no calcs and by only comparing.

TP Dorf doesnt have the memories of WW Dorf as they are diffent entities. But TP Dorf does have the memories of OoT as that was him in the timeline. http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Split_Timeline_Theory Look at that, or just glance at the picture and you'll get it.

...*applauds*

For the record, quan, Earth physics apply as ruled for KMC, so don't even start with that.

Thats an interesting and perhaps accurate way of measuring strength. Well done Bloodrain. We dont get actual figuires I suppose (we dont know the exact weight/strength of the "strong chap" in the vid, but its useful.

Originally posted by The Scenario
You weaken her by stabbing her. This is not hard to understand.



If you could quote me on that it's be great, because I rcall saying it didn't damage him at all. I said nothing about blood.



What are you talking about, though? There's no one running the cannon that goes to the city in the sky, and it was designed to launch birds, who would be able to slow themselves. There's second cannon in the city in the sky that fires downward, and no one runs that, either. Link is the only non-Ooccoo to use the thing.



Yeah, you're talking about the clown guy, whereas I'm talking about the completely different cannon that had to be rebuilt and was designed to fire tiny birds instead of humans. So, yeah, Link is the only human to use it, and he survives fine on both trips. Meaning his durability is through the roof and the Mother can't hurt him.



He's stronger than they are and weilds a sword that would cut through the Mother and her tentacles like paper. He'll kill her easily.



No, he can't stop him without the boots. Once stopped, he doesn't need any extra weight and can go ahead and lift and throw Dangoro.



Well, yes, since that's how evidence works. I posted a feat of Link's and a feat of the thing hitting him. You didn't post any feats of the Mother, so she currently hasn't displayed the strength necessary to hurt Link at all. Therefore, she can't until you post a strength feat.



Link has resistance to such effects in the form of the Master Sword and Triforce of Courage. And what is the name of this ability? The Dragon Age wiki doesn't mention it. Link won't ge close to her.

It did damage him but he recovered.

So it's killed no one nor has it even been portrayed in the game to be even close to attempting a fatal fall yet you proudly proclaim this as some sort of Link feat. This is just ridiculous.

When was it stated in the game humans will be killed by his trup to the city in the sky ?

Link isn't stronger than any of them save maybe just a mage. That's it. He hasn't proven himself to beat anyone in zelda due to overwhelming strength.

So what the only way Link can stop someone who outweighs him by a fair margin with with the boots but he's immobile so your point is ?

Mother isn't in videos where she is just killing people we go by her abilities and what not. You seem to think gameplay abilities mean nothing which is incorrect Link will never ever even get close to her.

You have to play the game. Can't remember off hand what it's called.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Link won't ge close to her.


The guy with the knife did. All Link needs to do is slice apart her tentacles and the grubs and then she can't do squat to him.



Prove it did damage. A normal human wouldn't be okay after that attack. And if you think he recovered from that, he'll certainly recover from the Mother's tentacles if they even mage to hit him.



Link gets lauched out of a sky cannon at a lake, and you think this is non-lethal. That's hilarious. The fall alone would kill any human, let alone the fact there's a cannon launching him faster.



Physics states this rather hard. Where is it stated that swords can hurt things? Same thing. Just look:
fCmV8zivweY
4:40. Link enters the cannon and is fired downward. He hits Lake Hylia and somehow manages to not be pasted. You think anyone could survive this?



Link beat Dangoro due to overwhelming strength. Since he could lift Dangoro, he is much stronger than the featless Grey Wardens. Unless, of course, you can post a strength feat that puts the Grey Wardens above Link, he is hundreds of times stronger than they are.



He doesn't need to wear the boots to put his massive strength behind a sword swing.



Magic Armor. Mortal Draw. Mother dies in one hit and still can't hurt Link.



Don't really care. Link is protected anyway.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Wow that's dense. Boots ≠ Arms but nice try. If you played the game of looked a little deeper you'd know all this by now. And Link knocking around a 300 ton ice mass with a ball and chain says otherwise to him having no strength.

Speculation through maths is taken as better proof then someone's word based off nothing. Its how it works when comparing things.

Can weild it with enough strength to knock that 3 story iceberg back at speeds. Y'know what, just for you Im gonna dig up a strength feat just for you with as little math as possible:
MeEEAFrRcgU
http://www.legendarystrength.com/feats-of-strength/chain-breaking/#
What this tells us is that a strong person can beak a #12 chain with small trouble and can break a #10 chain with difficulty, in his words 4x harder for 2 grades. That link also says that breaking a #6 chain is a superhuman feat. That would mean a #6 would be over 8x harder then a #10.
http://www.perfectionchain.com/images/singlejackmain.jpg
Now;
sGdBoWLGdUM
Knowing that Dorf is like 10ft tall. Those chains that held him would be #4 which he broke with less effort then that chap breaking a #12 in another vid. That comes with the conclusion that Dorf is 20x stronger then a fairly strong person...




Oh yeah the point of this is.. ''Never once have I seen his strength decide the outcome of any fight it's always due to his skill and artifacts''
Bx0Yfg6EasQ 50 seconds in.
Link is just above Dorfs strength. Seeing as how the Dragon Age people at best with no feats would be in the 'athlete' class, Link trumps them by far. There, a feat with no calcs and by only comparing.

TP Dorf doesnt have the memories of WW Dorf as they are diffent entities. But TP Dorf does have the memories of OoT as that was him in the timeline. http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Split_Timeline_Theory Look at that, or just glance at the picture and you'll get it. No proof she weighs 300 tons but nice try with the imaginary numbers. You really are out there. Link to stop anything which weighs more than himself needs the boots for this but if he equips them he lacks any kind of mobility and will be torn apart.

Breaking the chains is nice and all but he is powered up by the triforce which seems to empower him temporarily so unless his hand is lighting up he isn't normally this strong.

This isn't canon either and it's a gameplay mechanic nor is dorf actively or passively using the triforce to increase his power.


I appreciate the effort but it's a bit misguided. Link isn't portrayed as strong either and dorf only is superhumanly strong when using the triforce of power.



Link doesn't even close the gap and she does too much damage to him to even close the gap to make this an actual fight.

I must admit that I, too, am curious as to how the 300 ton figure for Blizzeta came about. BloodRain, can you post the math or whatever process you used to determine it? If true, TP Link just went up yet another strenngth category.

And Quanchi, if picking up and throwing Dangoro doesn't portray Link as strong, what will? Oh, and before I forget, the Triforce of Power is passive, meaning Ganondorf is always that strong.

Originally posted by The Scenario
The guy with the knife did. All Link needs to do is slice apart her tentacles and the grubs and then she can't do squat to him.



Prove it did damage. A normal human wouldn't be okay after that attack. And if you think he recovered from that, he'll certainly recover from the Mother's tentacles if they even mage to hit him.



Link gets lauched out of a sky cannon at a lake, and you think this is non-lethal. That's hilarious. The fall alone would kill any human, let alone the fact there's a cannon launching him faster.



Physics states this rather hard. Where is it stated that swords can hurt things? Same thing. Just look:
fCmV8zivweY
4:40. Link enters the cannon and is fired downward. He hits Lake Hylia and somehow manages to not be pasted. You think anyone could survive this?



Link beat Dangoro due to overwhelming strength. Since he could lift Dangoro, he is much stronger than the featless Grey Wardens. Unless, of course, you can post a strength feat that puts the Grey Wardens above Link, he is hundreds of times stronger than they are.



He doesn't need to wear the boots to put his massive strength behind a sword swing.



Magic Armor. Mortal Draw. Mother dies in one hit and still can't hurt Link.



Don't really care. Link is protected anyway. Yes, he did so after weakening her. You are leaving out the entire battle which took place prior too.

A videogame character who is a hero can sustain this type of attack and ward off the damage and recover to make a fight of it. Don't be so dramatic.

Too many tentacles to overcome. They also do far more damage than this guy's blunt force trauma and are more numerous all attacking him at once.


This is zelda and like usual you want to attack normal physics to some of the crazier and nonsensical things in the game. This wasn't designed in the game to be fatal to anyone nor was it even described as anything close to being. Nice try but you failed.

Link beat him due to his gear and tactics he didn't beat him due to overwhelming strength. I mean stop it already with this nonsense like he's stronger than dangoro it's utterly ridiculous.

Saying he's a hundred times strong when the guy can barely wield a ball and chain and the fact he needs gear to even stop anyone who weighs more than him is flat out wrong. Link isn't stronger than anyone in his own game nor does he show it in tp.

Nor do any massive swings do any damage to a worthy opponent who can block all his strikes.

He needs skill to beat them the game makes it clear multiple times hence the skills.

He can't mortal draw her he gets beaten before he even gets close to her.

No, he isn't. Link hasn't shown any protection from anything in dragon age nor did you play the game which shows how biased you are as you claim he's protected when YOU HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED
THE GAME NOR DO YOU HAVE A CLUE ABOUT ANYTHING COMBAT WISE IN THE GAME.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he did so after weakening her. You are leaving out the entire battle which took place prior too.


No, I in fact told you that Link would kill her after he destroys all her tentacles and grubs and pulls a mortal Draw on her face.



Then you admit Link can survive the Mother's attacks, ward off her damage, and recover enough to kill her. That wasn't so hard, I think.



Too many? I watched two different walkthroughs and the Mother's tentacles total at about 4. That's enough to be destroyed by one spin attack, let alone the Great Spin. Also, how about you prove that the tentacles are stronger than King Bulblin? They have no strength feats and King Bulblin deals some hefty damage. Oh, and Magic Armor. Mother still can't hurt him.



I'm not attacking normal physics. In fact, you are the one claiming that a terminal velocity fall can't hurt anyone, which goes against all of physics. Link was unharmed by a cannon that fired him several thousand feet into a lake and was not harmed. The Mother can't compete with that.



I never said Link was stronger than Dangoro. All I said is that Link is strong enough to throw Dangoro. He defeated Dangoro by picking him up and throwing him. That one feat of strength puts Link above anyone in Dragon Age in regards to strength.



He shows it when he picks up Dangoro and beats Ganondorf in a sword lock. He also shows it when he wields the Ball and Chain easier than the boss. He shows it when he throws the Ball and Chsin and throws Blizzeta against a wall. If you can't see any of that, you are blind. Now instead of just saying Link is weak and being proven wrong, how about you show me that Dragon Age characters are strong?



You have yet to prove the Mother is a worthy opponent. In fact, you have yet to prove anything at all. If you cannot provide proof for anything you say, you are just wasting everyone's time.



Yes, we already know Link is skilled. This does not make Link any weaker.



How does he get beaten when the Magic Armor prevents the Mother from hurting him at all? The only thing Link needs to do is run up and Mortal Draw the Mother while the Magic Armor blocks all her attacks.



Do you think I am incapable of doing research? I have watched enough gameplay videos to know how Dragon Age works, and I know that Link has resistance to mental powers like what you said the Mother had BUT FAILED TO PROVE IN ANY WAY.

Originally posted by The Scenario
No, I in fact told you that Link would kill her after he destroys all her tentacles and grubs and pulls a mortal Draw on her face.



Then you admit Link can survive the Mother's attacks, ward off her damage, and recover enough to kill her. That wasn't so hard, I think.



Too many? I watched two different walkthroughs and the Mother's tentacles total at about 4. That's enough to be destroyed by one spin attack, let alone the Great Spin. Also, how about you prove that the tentacles are stronger than King Bulblin? They have no strength feats and King Bulblin deals some hefty damage. Oh, and Magic Armor. Mother still can't hurt him.



I'm not attacking normal physics. In fact, you are the one claiming that a terminal velocity fall can't hurt anyone, which goes against all of physics. Link was unharmed by a cannon that fired him several thousand feet into a lake and was not harmed. The Mother can't compete with that.



I never said Link was stronger than Dangoro. All I said is that Link is strong enough to throw Dangoro. He defeated Dangoro by picking him up and throwing him. That one feat of strength puts Link above anyone in Dragon Age in regards to strength.



He shows it when he picks up Dangoro and beats Ganondorf in a sword lock. He also shows it when he wields the Ball and Chain easier than the boss. He shows it when he throws the Ball and Chsin and throws Blizzeta against a wall. If you can't see any of that, you are blind. Now instead of just saying Link is weak and being proven wrong, how about you show me that Dragon Age characters are strong?



You have yet to prove the Mother is a worthy opponent. In fact, you have yet to prove anything at all. If you cannot provide proof for anything you say, you are just wasting everyone's time.



Yes, we already know Link is skilled. This does not make Link any weaker.



How does he get beaten when the Magic Armor prevents the Mother from hurting him at all? The only thing Link needs to do is run up and Mortal Draw the Mother while the Magic Armor blocks all her attacks.



Do you think I am incapable of doing research? I have watched enough gameplay videos to know how Dragon Age works, and I know that Link has resistance to mental powers like what you said the Mother had BUT FAILED TO PROVE IN ANY WAY. He can't he is busy slashing wildy as the tentacles attack him. With the mortal draw he dies as well if he gets hit. LOL.

No, he can survive one attack from one minor orcish character he hasn't shown the ability to kill. LOL.


This isn't a zelda game where you attack something once and it goes down he needs to do damage a lot of it to do so and he's busy being attacked by the Mother herself and other tentacles.

You haven't proven he's invincible. That's also ludicrous basically your claim is nothing can hurt him by the magic armor so if his world was destroyed he'd still survive. Not surprising mind coming from you though.


Neither time in each cannon did it ever kill anyone which further shows this game doesn't apply to physics by any means unless you feel it does ? Nope, sorry but until you can prove it can be fatal to anyone inside the game and quit ignoring the actual portrayal within the game you have nothing as usual.

Link isn't srrong enough to throw him outside his gear so the only time he can deal with an opponent larger than himself is with gear and strength wise he didn't show any strength anywhere near close to being superior to any knight he faced in the game. You have nothing yet again. In the game he isn't portrayed as strong.


The Mother's abilities make Link's attacks worthless as he can't even get close enough to attack her. She can make him swing wildly as she attacks him through her tentacles.

You haven't played the game so as usual you have no idea just arguing ignorantly against without a clue good or bad about Mother.

He depends on skill and is never portrayed as overpowering an opponent and being so much stronger they can't hope to face him. Never. Not once. I played the game and found him to be a very weak hero imo.

You need to prove magic armor makes him invincible.

You are asking for answers and are unsure about the game as you haven't played it. You are a wiki arguer the worst kind. You have no knowledge of your own but argue for or against regardless.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He can't he is busy slashing wildy as the tentacles attack him. With the mortal draw he dies as well if he gets hit. LOL.


Link has no reason to slash wildly when a single Great Spin will destroy all of the Mother's tentacles. Quickly followed by a Mortal Draw to the face.



He can tank an attack from a demonstratably strong character with no damage. Since the Mother isn't demonstratably strong, she can't damage him either. King Bulblin's ridiculous durability has no bearing on his attack power, so I don't see why you bring that up.



But that's how the game works, Quanchi. Are you really telling me that you're ignoring what happens in Zelda just to try and make Dragon seem more powerful? Again, a Great Spin to rid himself of the tentacles, and then a one hit kill Mortal Draw to the face.



You haven't proven the Mother is strong.
You haven't proven the tentacles are strong.
You haven't proven the Mother is durable.
You haven't proven the tentacles are durable.
You haven't proven the Mother or the tentacles are even a threat to Link. But fine, if you want me to go find proof while you steadfastly refuse to prove anything you have ever said, I will do it.
7MlfoiOv5I4
0:35. "Wear it and your rupees become magical. The armor will protect you, so if you get hit, you will lose rupees, not health."
GKW5cdBwN94
And as you can see, even when Link is hit, he does not take damage.
There you are, some freakin' proof that what I say is true. Why don't you ever do this for me?



Link is the only human to ever be fired from that cannon, so it has never had the opportunity to kill anyone except Link, who managed to resist the terminal velocity launch. If you just think about physics, this makes Link extremely tough, and you arguing that people can't be killed by this is not logical or even rational.



The gear weighs him down only. Unless, of course, you think the boots increase Link's strength. So answer the question now: Do you believe the boots make Link stronger? This is a yes or no question, so please don't say anything other than either a "yes" or a "no." And please don't try to dodge the question again.



Great Spin kills tentacles. Mortal Draw kills Mother. She cannot make Link swing wildly because Link has enough protection to make the resistence check.



Quanchi, I have watched two different walkthroughs for fight the Mother, so you pulling the ignorance card is just desperation, since you seem to just be trying to change the subject rather than provide the proof I am asking for.



He overpowered Ganondorf in the sword lock, which proves you wrong immediately. Again, in your opion does not change the facts, which are that Link is stronger than you think he is. Dangoro, Blizzeta, and Ganondorf all prove this.



Done.



As I have told you, I already watched two videos of someone fighting the Mother, and I did not see what you have described. Unless you can prove it by posting a video or something similar, I am force to assume you are making things up.

To anyone else who has played Dragon Age Awakening, would you mind terribly helping Quanchi and I out here? I just want to know what he is describing as an ability of the Mother's, as I personally have not seen it in action. Please?

I think he is talking about the Scream debuff.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Link has no reason to slash wildly when a single Great Spin will destroy all of the Mother's tentacles. Quickly followed by a Mortal Draw to the face.



He can tank an attack from a demonstratably strong character with no damage. Since the Mother isn't demonstratably strong, she can't damage him either. King Bulblin's ridiculous durability has no bearing on his attack power, so I don't see why you bring that up.



But that's how the game works, Quanchi. Are you really telling me that you're ignoring what happens in Zelda just to try and make Dragon seem more powerful? Again, a Great Spin to rid himself of the tentacles, and then a one hit kill Mortal Draw to the face.



You haven't proven the Mother is strong.
You haven't proven the tentacles are strong.
You haven't proven the Mother is durable.
You haven't proven the tentacles are durable.
You haven't proven the Mother or the tentacles are even a threat to Link. But fine, if you want me to go find proof while you steadfastly refuse to prove anything you have ever said, I will do it.
7MlfoiOv5I4
0:35. "Wear it and your rupees become magical. The armor will protect you, so if you get hit, you will lose rupees, not health."
GKW5cdBwN94
And as you can see, even when Link is hit, he does not take damage.
There you are, some freakin' proof that what I say is true. Why don't you ever do this for me?



Link is the only human to ever be fired from that cannon, so it has never had the opportunity to kill anyone except Link, who managed to resist the terminal velocity launch. If you just think about physics, this makes Link extremely tough, and you arguing that people can't be killed by this is not logical or even rational.



The gear weighs him down only. Unless, of course, you think the boots increase Link's strength. So answer the question now: Do you believe the boots make Link stronger? This is a yes or no question, so please don't say anything other than either a "yes" or a "no." And please don't try to dodge the question again.



Great Spin kills tentacles. Mortal Draw kills Mother. She cannot make Link swing wildly because Link has enough protection to make the resistence check.



Quanchi, I have watched two different walkthroughs for fight the Mother, so you pulling the ignorance card is just desperation, since you seem to just be trying to change the subject rather than provide the proof I am asking for.



He overpowered Ganondorf in the sword lock, which proves you wrong immediately. Again, in your opion does not change the facts, which are that Link is stronger than you think he is. Dangoro, Blizzeta, and Ganondorf all prove this.



Done.



As I have told you, I already watched two videos of someone fighting the Mother, and I did not see what you have described. Unless you can prove it by posting a video or something similar, I am force to assume you are making things up.

To anyone else who has played Dragon Age Awakening, would you mind terribly helping Quanchi and I out here? I just want to know what he is describing as an ability of the Mother's, as I personally have not seen it in action. Please? He gets hit by her attack which causes him to do so. It's one of her abilities.

One attack with blunt force trauma. That's like someone shrugging off a punch and using your logic says all punches cannot harm that person. Worst logic ever.

So Link can't be damaged now ? Why ?

Link needs to hit with this attack a lot though and in the meantime he loses valuable health or his rupees diminish making him vulnerable.

I don't have to it's obvious these attacks would hurt him as everything in the game does including boomerangs from monkeys and plants. You are ignoring how he's portrayed again like always.

This only buys him some time and once he runs out he is susceptible to damage.

So you really believe the creators portrayed this as fatal to anyone else save Link ? Do you honestly believe that ? Please say yes.

The boots make the feat possible. I have answered this question and it's 100 percent accurate.

He is caught by her ability to swing wildly while taking damage. he dies, every time.


You haven't played the game you watch others do so so you cannot grasp a feel for the game itself and how it works.


False, and secondly he wasn't drawing power from triforce. It's also not canon either and you can lose those tests and still beat him.

Link wins due to his skill not overpowering strength. Not once.

Temporarily.

I don't make things up sorry but believe what you want and as usual you have no idea because you haven't played the game. you might not even notice if you saw it because you can only tell if you switch into the character but you cannot control him or heal him outside a group heal by another mage.

Ignorance.

Link punches her, she dies.

Originally posted by quanchi112

Ignorance.

Yes you are full of it, but answer me this Quanchi, why is it when I look across your name and your posts in this entire thread and every other on this forum do I not see a single website posted?, not a single piece of evidencen either video or website. hell I would prefer even a wiki as evidence if you cant do any more than that, I mean spamming claims over and over without proof does not counter as evidence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He gets hit by her attack which causes him to do so. It's one of her abilities.

If you are indeed talking about the Scream debuff, that only stuns. If you could actually get a name for the ability that's be great. Regardless, Link has mental defenses that prevent that kind of thing. If you remember, he was completely unaffected by the Fused Shadows and Mirror Shards, which caused both Darbus and Yeta to go berserk.



No, it's like someone shrugging off a club to the face and logic saying punches that are weaker than the club cannot harm them. The Mother has nothing to indicate she's as strong as King Bulblin.



Couple reasons. First, Mother isn't comparable to a giant cannon. Second, Magic Armor.




Nope, Mortal Draw automatically kills in one hit, so Link only needs to hit once.



Well, you're ignoring him being portrayed as strong. Cutscene still takes precedence over gameplay, and based on Link's cutscene portrayal, Mother can't hurt him.



Yeah, too bad he'll have killed the Mother with a single Mortal Draw long before that happens.



No, Quanchi. You are strawmanning and trying to put words in my mouth. I said that no other human has used the cannon, so there is no portrayal to see. The portrayal does not exist. It was not portrayed at all, in either direction.However, physics, logic, and rational thought all state quite clearly that a fall from that height would turn a human to paste. But, since you seem so determined to let everyone in Hyrule be just as invincible, we can do that, too. By your own argument, Quanchi, Mother can't harm anyone in Hyrule, since you think everyone in Hyrule could survive the cannon.



You dodged the question even though I asked you nicely not to. That was not a yes or no, Quanchi. Just give me a yes or give me a no. One word, that's it.



He resists, and Mortal Draws the Mother.



That really is irrelevant, since it's just your opinion.



Not canon? But Quanchi, you said we could use gameplay. Not alloowing this is just hypocritical.



That doesn't mean he does not have overpowering strength compared to Dragon Age.



Long enough.



Apparently no one else knows what you're talking about, either, though.



Flaming.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No proof she weighs 300 tons but nice try with the imaginary numbers. You really are out there. Link to stop anything which weighs more than himself needs the boots for this but if he equips them he lacks any kind of mobility and will be torn apart.

Breaking the chains is nice and all but he is powered up by the triforce which seems to empower him temporarily so unless his hand is lighting up he isn't normally this strong.

This isn't canon either and it's a gameplay mechanic nor is dorf actively or passively using the triforce to increase his power.

I appreciate the effort but it's a bit misguided. Link isn't portrayed as strong either and dorf only is superhumanly strong when using the triforce of power.

Link doesn't even close the gap and she does too much damage to him to even close the gap to make this an actual fight.

If you have the capability for simple maths check my reply to Scenario. Annnnd if you dont want to admit its weight for what I can only guess is some passive fear of maths (?) then you have to admit that ice at that size is heavier then Link. To compare, a normal car weighs 2 tons, and youre saying Link can only move his own weight because...?

Actually that was when it first activated and in LoZ triforce users get increasingly stronger after activation. Is the same for every game. So in fact he's stronger by the time he faces Link at the end.

In-game cutscenes, computer controlled moments in gameplay and QTE etc are treated as cannon. Been that way for ages now. If not someone like Kratos would have little strength to his name. Like said just above, that was an activation scene. Its now active and empowering him since that moment.

Link isnt portrayed as being strong... even if he could beat Bo in a sumo match? ^^ That guy must be 200kg with his height and size, obviously more then Link. This alone proves he's above athlete strength.

.___. Normal featless warriors close the gap. Normal featless warriors beat her. C'mon I bet even you could evade those slow attacks.

Originally posted by The Scenario
I must admit that I, too, am curious as to how the 300 ton figure for Blizzeta came about. BloodRain, can you post the math or whatever process you used to determine it? If true, TP Link just went up yet another strenngth category.
I just made it a sphere for quickness sake. Its around 8m around the waist ring, 4/3 πR3 (r=400cm ) = 268082573.333*0.92 = 246635967 g
= 272 tons, rounded up due to it being more egg then ball in shape. One throw of the Ball&Chain being able to knock this weight across the room at a good speeds more or less confirms Goron lifting without Boots.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes you are full of it, but answer me this Quanchi, why is it when I look across your name and your posts in this entire thread and every other on this forum do I not see a single website posted?, not a single piece of evidencen either video or website. hell I would prefer even a wiki as evidence if you cant do any more than that, I mean spamming claims over and over without proof does not counter as evidence.

Here is what helps him most

Real evidence < His claims.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes you are full of it, but answer me this Quanchi, why is it when I look across your name and your posts in this entire thread and every other on this forum do I not see a single website posted?, not a single piece of evidencen either video or website. hell I would prefer even a wiki as evidence if you cant do any more than that, I mean spamming claims over and over without proof does not counter as evidence. What have I stated that is incorrect about dragon age ?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Link punches her, she dies. When has Link ever punched anyone and killed them due to his superior strength ?

Originally posted by SpadeKing
Here is what helps him most

Real evidence < His claims. I do use real evidence from the games. Get it together.

Originally posted by BloodRain
If you have the capability for simple maths check my reply to Scenario. Annnnd if you dont want to admit its weight for what I can only guess is some passive fear of maths (?) then you have to admit that ice at that size is heavier then Link. To compare, a normal car weighs 2 tons, and youre saying Link can only move his own weight because...?

Actually that was when it first activated and in LoZ triforce users get increasingly stronger after activation. Is the same for every game. So in fact he's stronger by the time he faces Link at the end.

In-game cutscenes, computer controlled moments in gameplay and QTE etc are treated as cannon. Been that way for ages now. If not someone like Kratos would have little strength to his name. Like said just above, that was an activation scene. Its now active and empowering him since that moment.

Link isnt portrayed as being strong... even if he could beat Bo in a sumo match? ^^ That guy must be 200kg with his height and size, obviously more then Link. This alone proves he's above athlete strength.

.___. Normal featless warriors close the gap. Normal featless warriors beat her. C'mon I bet even you could evade those slow attacks.


I just made it a sphere for quickness sake. Its around 8m around the waist ring, 4/3 πR3 (r=400cm ) = 268082573.333*0.92 = 246635967 g
= 272 tons, rounded up due to it being more egg then ball in shape. One throw of the Ball&Chain being able to knock this weight across the room at a good speeds more or less confirms Goron lifting without Boots.

You don't understand how most artists, writer's, or creators go about when they draw or create something the hero takes on. This is Kurt Busiek's response.
They don't even make sense half the time -- if a stat in the Handbook says that Character A can lift 120 tons, most artists don't know what 120 tons looks like, and they don't go and check whether a particular airplane or tank or whatever is within the character's stated limits; they just figure that means "wicked strong" and draw what looks to them appropriately "wicked."

I think that system works better than assigning numbers -- all that happens when you do that is that someone says Spider-Man can lift 40 tons (or whatever) because of that humongous machine he lifted once with incredible effort, and then bang, all of a sudden it's his standard strength, and fans who use to see Spider-Man go up against three guys with lead pipes and think it was an okay fight are going, "No way! He can lift 40 tons! That means he can juggle Buicks!"

Never mind that Spider-Man was never the kind of character to juggle Buicks, or even lift one, but hey, it says he can lift 40 tons in a power chart somewhere, and that's taken as more important than the way the character had been written and drawn.

You're the typical fan who argues based on feats alone and ignores how the character is portrayed and assigned bogus unprovable numbers to something they perceive and assign it as something they can do 100 percent of the time. It's an exercise in futility and why arguing just based on feats and ignoring character portrayal is the worst way you could ever debate.

You're the typical fan who claims he can juggle buicks.

Originally posted by The Scenario
If you are indeed talking about the Scream debuff, that only stuns. If you could actually get a name for the ability that's be great. Regardless, Link has mental defenses that prevent that kind of thing. If you remember, he was completely unaffected by the Fused Shadows and Mirror Shards, which caused both Darbus and Yeta to go berserk.



No, it's like someone shrugging off a club to the face and logic saying punches that are weaker than the club cannot harm them. The Mother has nothing to indicate she's as strong as King Bulblin.



Couple reasons. First, Mother isn't comparable to a giant cannon. Second, Magic Armor.




Nope, Mortal Draw automatically kills in one hit, so Link only needs to hit once.



Well, you're ignoring him being portrayed as strong. Cutscene still takes precedence over gameplay, and based on Link's cutscene portrayal, Mother can't hurt him.



Yeah, too bad he'll have killed the Mother with a single Mortal Draw long before that happens.



No, Quanchi. You are strawmanning and trying to put words in my mouth. I said that no other human has used the cannon, so there is no portrayal to see. The portrayal does not exist. It was not portrayed at all, in either direction.However, physics, logic, and rational thought all state quite clearly that a fall from that height would turn a human to paste. But, since you seem so determined to let everyone in Hyrule be just as invincible, we can do that, too. By your own argument, Quanchi, Mother can't harm anyone in Hyrule, since you think everyone in Hyrule could survive the cannon.



You dodged the question even though I asked you nicely not to. That was not a yes or no, Quanchi. Just give me a yes or give me a no. One word, that's it.



He resists, and Mortal Draws the Mother.



That really is irrelevant, since it's just your opinion.



Not canon? But Quanchi, you said we could use gameplay. Not alloowing this is just hypocritical.



That doesn't mean he does not have overpowering strength compared to Dragon Age.



Long enough.



Apparently no one else knows what you're talking about, either, though.



Flaming. No, Link doesn't. Link has never faced these defenses before either.

That has nothing to do with this spell which he can not actively resist. You are comparing apples to oranges.

The Mother doesn't have to be as strong as Bulbin for one. Secondly, strength doesn't always determine victor. You seem obsessed with strength and ignore abilities, power, etc. The tentacles and her abilities rip him a new one. Link has no way of avoiding them.

Mother can drain all magic from your character so there goes the magic armor. LOL.

Link dies as a tentacle hits him as mortal draw leaves him open to death as well.

Both go hand in hand. We don't ignore how he's portrayed throughout the game just because you really like Link. That's not how it works.

Link dies as mortal draw leaves him open for death as well.

Link dies in the game if he falls from the sky city and takes damage if he falls too high. In the cannon it's not designed to kill anyone so don't make a false comparison or try to make him able to survive 30,000 foot drops. You are all over the place here and cannot answer my question so you rescind your claim. Excellent.

Boots make feat possible.

You haven't played the game you haven't a clue and it is relevant.

How can Link resist this ?

Link doesn't have overwhelming strength to dragon age. It's completely ridiculous and we see Link struggle to maintain a wild horse.

Not when he swings wildly for a time his rupees go out or she drains all his magic aka armor.

That's not canon. He isn't stronger than dorf only if you do so is he. Laughs.

I don't care. It's an ability in the game.

Not when it's true. You admitted you were ignorant more or less when you stated you hadn't played the game.

Originally posted by quanchi112


When has Link ever punched anyone and killed them due to his superior strength ?


When has Mother ever beaten Link? dur

Originally posted by quanchi112


You don't understand how most artists, writer's, or creators go about when they draw or create something the hero takes on. This is Kurt Busiek's response.
They don't even make sense half the time -- if a stat in the Handbook says that Character A can lift 120 tons, most artists don't know what 120 tons looks like, and they don't go and check whether a particular airplane or tank or whatever is within the character's stated limits; they just figure that means "wicked strong" and draw what looks to them appropriately "wicked."

I think that system works better than assigning numbers -- all that happens when you do that is that someone says Spider-Man can lift 40 tons (or whatever) because of that humongous machine he lifted once with incredible effort, and then bang, all of a sudden it's his standard strength, and fans who use to see Spider-Man go up against three guys with lead pipes and think it was an okay fight are going, "No way! He can lift 40 tons! That means he can juggle Buicks!"

Never mind that Spider-Man was never the kind of character to juggle Buicks, or even lift one, but hey, it says he can lift 40 tons in a power chart somewhere, and that's taken as more important than the way the character had been written and drawn.

You're the typical fan who argues based on feats alone and ignores how the character is portrayed and assigned bogus unprovable numbers to something they perceive and assign it as something they can do 100 percent of the time. It's an exercise in futility and why arguing just based on feats and ignoring character portrayal is the worst way you could ever debate.

You're the typical fan who claims he can juggle buicks.
I dont think you understand how KMC works
It comes down to how credible and accurate the source is. In our case we're going by what happened in the game, thats the only logical way to get answers.

Spider-Man... 40 tons... machine... juggle buicks.... Im sorry this has what to do with anything? Waiting for an answer, how can an ice mass that large be lighter then Link. If it cant then that means Link superhuman.

Typical? Im hardly even a fan of Link. Everyone here uses a mix of the character and the feats, like how no one says 'Link tears ----'s head off'. So you want all the matches to be without the characters feats? -sigh-

And how does Mother hope to beat Link?

What Quanchi is doing is trying to claim comics are the same sort of fiction as games. Their completly different, which is why feats in games can be more important than in a comic, based on the fact that even with my limited knowledge of comics, I know different writers can sometimes write characters unique from one to the other.

You're in a different land now Quan, gotta follow our rules if you wanna play.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
When has Mother ever beaten Link? dur When has Mother ever beaten ANYONE?

Originally posted by NemeBro
When has Mother ever beaten ANYONE?

I'm guessing Quan. Or at least the first time he fought her.

Seriously though, I'm hearing of tentacles killing Link. Is there not a single enemy in TP that uses them?

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, Link doesn't. Link has never faced these defenses before either.
That has nothing to do with this spell which he can not actively resist.
You are comparing apples to oranges.


Link does, in fact, resist the Fused Shadows and Mirror Shards. Both of those cause creatures go berserk and attack wildly. You said that Mother can make Link swing wildly, and I'm saying Link resisted something that does similar.



Yes, she does. If Mother is not as strong as King Bulblin, and King Bulblin could not harm Link with his strength, how does the Mother hope to harm him? Mother's tentacles aren't strong, either, so thy can't harm Link, either, as they're weaker than King Bulblin by evidence. And Link can dodge them, as they don't move much.



No, it drains all mana. Link doesn't have mana, so that won't work. Even if it did, Link would have to be standing inside the glyph, which he can avoid.



King Bulblin is stronger than a tentacle, so how does the tentacle kill Link? The tentacle isn't as strong as a sky cannon, either, so how does it harm Link? And don't forget the Magic Armor. Link can just use the Mortal Draw on the tentacle to kill it before it does anything, or he just Great Spin Attacks all four and kills them, then Mortal Draws the Mother.



And we don't ignore canon cutscenes just because you don't like Link. But even with game mechanics Link wins because he's invincible and kills everything in one hit.



King Bulblin. Sky Cannon. Magic Armor.



No, Link doesn't die if he falls, he just loses some health and starts over. How do you know the cannon isn't designed to kill anyone? Can you show me anyone besides Link using it? Yes, that thing would kill anyone else if they weren't an Oocca, which it is designed for.



Yes or no? If you just repeat that again I'll be forced to assume that yes, you think that heavy boots make people stronger.



Quanchi, I'm fairly certain I know as much about Dragon Age as you do. I don't care about your opinion, and you have no right to tell me what I do or do not know.



Resist what? Link overpowered Ganondorf via the sword lock. They have comparable strength.



We see Link throw a giant Goron. We see Link throw a giant ice mass. We see Link lift a large chandelier. We see Link break giant boulders. We see Link break through armor. You can't ignore all of this, Quanchi.



Link resists, dodges, Mortal Draws, etc. Or he can just hang back and pelt the Mother with Bomb Arrows.



Why isn't it canon? Either Link or Ganondorf can win the sword lock, proving comparable strength, and it happens in the game, which makes it canon.



That Link can resist.



And then I told you I research the game extensively. If you continue to call me ignorant, it will be flaming and I will report you.

Originally posted by quanchi112


Link dies in the game if he falls from the sky city and takes damage if he falls too high. In the cannon it's not designed to kill anyone so don't make a false comparison or try to make him able to survive 30,000 foot drops. You are all over the place here and cannot answer my question so you rescind your claim. Excellent.


So you like using Game Mechanics when debating for the cannon feat? that's cool i guess

ever think this may be why? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CollisionDamage


Originally posted by quanchi112
Boots make feat possible.

Stop avoiding the question. The boots make the feat as a whole possible that isn't to say that the boots make it so that Link can lift up the goron please stop trying to prove otherwise. The boots make it so that Link can stop the goron not lift him, the boot make it so that he can stay on the floor Link has proven throughout the game that he has super strength and lifting a goron wouldn't be a far stretch nowhere in the game does it say the boots make him stronger,they allow him to stay on the ground so he isn't knocked over they DO NOT disreguard his strength.


Oh and Link likes to toss those gorons too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvPpX19WZmo (4:57)

P.S. I like what he says at 5:29

Originally posted by BloodRain
I dont think you understand how KMC works
It comes down to how credible and accurate the source is. In our case we're going by what happened in the game, thats the only logical way to get answers.

Spider-Man... 40 tons... machine... juggle buicks.... Im sorry this has what to do with anything? Waiting for an answer, how can an ice mass that large be lighter then Link. If it cant then that means Link superhuman.

Typical? Im hardly even a fan of Link. Everyone here uses a mix of the character and the feats, like how no one says 'Link tears ----'s head off'. So you want all the matches to be without the characters feats? -sigh-

And how does Mother hope to beat Link? Wow. I do understand how kmc works and you're one of the fans who kurt busiek described. You assign bogus numbers now pay attention here YOU CANNOT PROVE. You can get out a calculator all day long and make up the silliest stats for these characters which don't add up to how he is portrayed in the game.

Weren't you paying attention at all ? This is just like Link who isn't portrayed as superhumanly strong. He does what he has to do to defeat the villains but nowhere is he portrayed as this superhuman stud. Nowhere. If I held a knife and cut him he'd bleed. I have no idea where most of you come up with this you don't have the strength to hurt these insert favorite character here types of arguments.

Feats count but so does character portrayal and common sense. People who argue by feats alone aren't even arguing the characters themselves.


Mother's abilities dominate him. If a character doesn't have in game videos that doesn't mean that character is weaker. Originally posted by Burning thought
What Quanchi is doing is trying to claim comics are the same sort of fiction as games. Their completly different, which is why feats in games can be more important than in a comic, based on the fact that even with my limited knowledge of comics, I know different writers can sometimes write characters unique from one to the other. Same logic applies. There's inconsistencies in all genres of fiction. 90 of writers aren't looking at physics books when brainstorming this stuff.

Originally posted by BloodRain
You're in a different land now Quan, gotta follow our rules if you wanna play. Oh believe me I am. Been here for 3 years and most of you don't have a clue about character portrayal you just argue based off a few feats and disregard the actual portrayal.

Originally posted by NemeBro
When has Mother ever beaten ANYONE?

Originally posted by The Scenario
Link does, in fact, resist the Fused Shadows and Mirror Shards. Both of those cause creatures go berserk and attack wildly. You said that Mother can make Link swing wildly, and I'm saying Link resisted something that does similar.



Yes, she does. If Mother is not as strong as King Bulblin, and King Bulblin could not harm Link with his strength, how does the Mother hope to harm him? Mother's tentacles aren't strong, either, so thy can't harm Link, either, as they're weaker than King Bulblin by evidence. And Link can dodge them, as they don't move much.



No, it drains all mana. Link doesn't have mana, so that won't work. Even if it did, Link would have to be standing inside the glyph, which he can avoid.



King Bulblin is stronger than a tentacle, so how does the tentacle kill Link? The tentacle isn't as strong as a sky cannon, either, so how does it harm Link? And don't forget the Magic Armor. Link can just use the Mortal Draw on the tentacle to kill it before it does anything, or he just Great Spin Attacks all four and kills them, then Mortal Draws the Mother.



And we don't ignore canon cutscenes just because you don't like Link. But even with game mechanics Link wins because he's invincible and kills everything in one hit.



King Bulblin. Sky Cannon. Magic Armor.



No, Link doesn't die if he falls, he just loses some health and starts over. How do you know the cannon isn't designed to kill anyone? Can you show me anyone besides Link using it? Yes, that thing would kill anyone else if they weren't an Oocca, which it is designed for.



Yes or no? If you just repeat that again I'll be forced to assume that yes, you think that heavy boots make people stronger.



Quanchi, I'm fairly certain I know as much about Dragon Age as you do. I don't care about your opinion, and you have no right to tell me what I do or do not know.



Resist what? Link overpowered Ganondorf via the sword lock. They have comparable strength.



We see Link throw a giant Goron. We see Link throw a giant ice mass. We see Link lift a large chandelier. We see Link break giant boulders. We see Link break through armor. You can't ignore all of this, Quanchi.



Link resists, dodges, Mortal Draws, etc. Or he can just hang back and pelt the Mother with Bomb Arrows.



Why isn't it canon? Either Link or Ganondorf can win the sword lock, proving comparable strength, and it happens in the game, which makes it canon.



That Link can resist.



And then I told you I research the game extensively. If you continue to call me ignorant, it will be flaming and I will report you. He resisted being taken over but this ability doesn't fail and isn't the same thing.

When has Link ever resisted someone from killing him if he just stood there and allowed it ? He struggled with the horse and was easily knocked down by the snowman. The guy gets hurt if anyone hits him. Anyone even minor weak plants can kill him. You claiming the Mother can't hurt him is so out there I couldn't look you in the eye and take you seriously irl. Good thing this is the internet.

It drains all magical abilities aka magical armor. That's what that armor has is magical energy call it whatever you want.

Link isn't invincible and in canon cutscenes he was easily defeated by Zant.

Link recovered from one strike this doesn't mean he's invincible or immune to all attacks. Link falls out of sky city he dies because he was never ever portrayed as someone who can survive big falls and cannons both were created to survive and no one has ever died.


Link dies but the game doesn't end. Same thing in any other game where you fall off the cliff. You don't just magically start at the point right before you fell off the edge. Common sense.

You can't show me it hurting anyone plus the way it's referred to it's obvious the creators weren't using it as some dangerous method which would kill riders if they used this method.

I think the boots give him the weight needed for the strength feat. Without the added weight Link can't contend.

Nope. You asked me about elements of the story, asked me about abilities, and have never played the game. You haven't a clue outside what wiki and I tell you. You have no idea about the entire story or anything just what you picked up without playing the game.


It's ok I see you are arguing against it because you like zelda not that you know any better.

Nope. That's optional and you can lose the sword battle. Dorf also has only shown superstrength when the triforce is actively powering him up.


Due to the boots without them he lacks the weight to do anything against them.

Bo could man up against them as well showing it's all about the boots and skill.

None of this makes him really strong nor does he exhibit this in combat. He beats his enemies due to skill and the knights can parry all his attacks he wins not due to overwhelming strength he wins due to skill.

Link's getting attacked if he uses his arrows. He gets quickly killed and if he mortal draws a tentacle kills him as he leaves himself open for death.

Because it's a gameplay mechanic and secondly dorf has only shown this kind of strength when the triforce is actively being used making him not strong at all without it since he was unable to free himself prior to.

You haven't proven he can resist.

I won't say it again but you know it's what I think of you. Quit bringing it up then my opinion won't change.

Originally posted by Coco292
So you like using Game Mechanics when debating for the cannon feat? that's cool i guess

ever think this may be why? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CollisionDamage




Stop avoiding the question. The boots make the feat as a whole possible that isn't to say that the boots make it so that Link can lift up the goron please stop trying to prove otherwise. The boots make it so that Link can stop the goron not lift him, the boot make it so that he can stay on the floor Link has proven throughout the game that he has super strength and lifting a goron wouldn't be a far stretch nowhere in the game does it say the boots make him stronger,they allow him to stay on the ground so he isn't knocked over they DO NOT disreguard his strength.


Oh and Link likes to toss those gorons too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvPpX19WZmo (4:57)

P.S. I like what he says at 5:29 I use common sense and take everything into consideration.


Link doesn't have the weight to effectively deal with someone who outweighs him strength wise so it does contribute to what he's capable of strength wise which backs the game.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wow. I do understand how kmc works and you're one of the fans who kurt busiek described. You assign bogus numbers now pay attention here YOU CANNOT PROVE. You can get out a calculator all day long and make up the silliest stats for these characters which don't add up to how he is portrayed in the game.

Weren't you paying attention at all ? This is just like Link who isn't portrayed as superhumanly strong. He does what he has to do to defeat the villains but nowhere is he portrayed as this superhuman stud. Nowhere. If I held a knife and cut him he'd bleed. I have no idea where most of you come up with this you don't have the strength to hurt these insert favorite character here types of arguments.

Feats count but so does character portrayal and common sense. People who argue by feats alone aren't even arguing the characters themselves.


Mother's abilities dominate him. If a character doesn't have in game videos that doesn't mean that character is weaker.

Oh believe me I am. Been here for 3 years and most of you don't have a clue about character portrayal you just argue based off a few feats and disregard the actual portrayal.
<- Has debated against Link more times then for, like 4-1. How great of a fan am I? 8D. Technically they do add up. If I say X character is Y fast and Z strong and through the game X is proven to move at Y speeds and lift Z then the calcs have worked. Never said that Link has godly durability, pay attention and give the answer to this: Link knocks back the giant ice mass, said mass is several time larger then himself so obviously weighs more, no maths just common sense. How is that not superhuman? Answer in the next post or forfeit the strength argument.

Ok lets put in some of his character. Is a top ranking knight as he > all TP knights and the Hero's Shade said so himself. Is massively courageous to do what he does at his age, backed by the Triforce of Courage residing in him. Has fought bosses more threatening then Mother. Three basic things about Link which means his character is portrayed to defeating enemies like Mother. There, character and feats sorted.

Then how about we step back from Link and look at The Mother. Her moves consist of slow tentacles that I could evade with my legs fixed to the ground and can make the magicless Link not use magic. That adding to the fact the she has no feats and no character portrayal like you so very much want together. True, if a character doesnt have clips it doesnt make them weak but we'd have to find a way to gauge the strength. Only way is through powerscaling; The Mother is matched by two athletic humans=shes just above human strength but below human speed. Link has above human speed with reactions to shoot arrows out of mid-air with arrows and is strong enough to beat Bo in strength who must be in the 500kg strength level is weightlifter/sumo huge, can hurl a 30ton boss Goron over his shoulder and knock a 300 ton large ice mass the size of a few cars stacked up back some distance.

Or y'know, Link gets past those tentacles to get up in her face then puts on the Iron Boots to gain strength cos thats how they role and use his boot strength to shove his sword into her head.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Name a single person she beat.

I think she MAY have killed one of her own punk-ass Darkspawn, but I am not even sure of that.

She has beaten no one of any importance at all.

This made me laugh. Well played.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He resisted being taken over but this ability doesn't fail and isn't the same thing.


Hey, you know what? Link's resistence didn't fail either. So what wins? The canon resistence or the featless gameplay ability? Hmmm.



Link just let King Bulblin hit him with an axe and was fine. So if Mother isn't as strong as King Bulblin, he'll also be fine. Oh, and Yeto knocking him across the room? That didn't hurt him either, so thanks for that.



Dragon Age magic is powered by mana. Twilight Princess Magic Armor is not powered by mana. It is, in fact, powered by money. The Glyph of Neutralization does not drain money. And even if it did, Link would have to be standing in it, which he won't be.



I thought you didn't want to use cutscenes? Regardless, all Zelda games are about Link improving his skills, so things that are in the past aren't great indicators. Since, you know, Link defeated Zant, that scene is no longer applicable. And he wasn't wearing the magic armor, of course.



You keep saying that no one ever died. This confuses me, because you don't actually know that for a fact. You are aware that the main users of the sky cannon were not people, but birds? It was designed for birds. No human has ever used this cannon before Link did. Birds might be able to survive because they can freaking fly, but you have no way of knowing that it was designed for human travel, since the thing is only used by birds. BIRDS, Quanchi.



Just magically appearing is common sense to you? Sounds more like gameplay mechanics to me, but hey, you allowed them. Link never canonically fell off the city, and the only time he did in canon, was with an actual cannon. Which he survived.



What way is it referred to? When Ooccoo, the BIRD, asks you to find the BIRD CANNON so that she can go to the City in the Sky so she can join all her BIRD friends. And then Link does find the BIRD CANNON and uses it to go to the City full of BIRDS so he can get the Mirror Shard.

BIRDS.



I think you don't understand how strength and weight works. Without the added weight Link can't avoid being moved. With them, he avoids being pushed around so that he can apply his strength. Despite what you may think, being heavy does not make people stronger.



I asked you for evidnce, which you have repeated refused to give me. You've admitted to wasting my time, because without the evidence backing you up, your claims are nothing. All you need to do is get some evidence. That's it. It's easy.



I'm arguing because Link's opponent is just not very powerful and I have seen Link take down things stronger than the Mother. Most bosses bosses in Twilight Princess make that cut.



Ganondorf can transform into a giant pig without the Triforce lighting up. Glowing is not a good indicator. And we saw it lighting up when Ganondrf was talking. It was just glowing that time because that was the first time it was activated and Ganondorf had just recieved it. It wasn't glowing when he killed the Sage, either.



He can swing a sword without needing the boots. And as BloodRain said, Link could just equip them right before stabbing the Mother. Hell, he could put them on and then Clawshot right into her face to commence with the violence. Hopefully the Clawshot won't just pull her head off.



Bo has tusks. The man is not human.



Throw Dangoro off ledge. Trip Fyrus. Throw Blizzeta across the room. Link can cut Darknut armor to pieces, why do you ignore that? And I've never seen a Darknuts parry any of Link's attacks. I've seen them block with a shield, but never once parry him. I've also seen Link knock that shield from their hand at the same time he cleaves their armor.



How does he get killed if he shoots the Mother from outside her range? He can just Clawshot up to the Mother instantly, and kill her in one move before any of the tentacles reach him. He could stand in a circle of tentacles and Great Spin Attack all of them at once, leaving the Mother defensesless. He could keep attacking regardless of the tentacle, because it can't hurt him or get past his armor.

There's no way for the Mother to win.



Stop changing your stance, please. Why are gameplay mechanics suddenly unuseable when you've been allowing them for the past several pages? And I've told you, Ganondorf wasn't strong before he got the Triforce of Power. Only after was he permanently super strong and durable.



Fused Shadows. Mirror Shards. Both resisted. Stop ignoring them.



Just because you're not using the word doesn't mean you're not still making a personal attack.

Originally posted by BloodRain
<- Has debated against Link more times then for, like 4-1. How great of a fan am I? 8D. Technically they do add up. If I say X character is Y fast and Z strong and through the game X is proven to move at Y speeds and lift Z then the calcs have worked. Never said that Link has godly durability, pay attention and give the answer to this: Link knocks back the giant ice mass, said mass is several time larger then himself so obviously weighs more, no maths just common sense. How is that not superhuman? Answer in the next post or forfeit the strength argument.

Ok lets put in some of his character. Is a top ranking knight as he > all TP knights and the Hero's Shade said so himself. Is massively courageous to do what he does at his age, backed by the Triforce of Courage residing in him. Has fought bosses more threatening then Mother. Three basic things about Link which means his character is portrayed to defeating enemies like Mother. There, character and feats sorted.

Then how about we step back from Link and look at The Mother. Her moves consist of slow tentacles that I could evade with my legs fixed to the ground and can make the magicless Link not use magic. That adding to the fact the she has no feats and no character portrayal like you so very much want together. True, if a character doesnt have clips it doesnt make them weak but we'd have to find a way to gauge the strength. Only way is through powerscaling; The Mother is matched by two athletic humans=shes just above human strength but below human speed. Link has above human speed with reactions to shoot arrows out of mid-air with arrows and is strong enough to beat Bo in strength who must be in the 500kg strength level is weightlifter/sumo huge, can hurl a 30ton boss Goron over his shoulder and knock a 300 ton large ice mass the size of a few cars stacked up back some distance.

Or y'know, Link gets past those tentacles to get up in her face then puts on the Iron Boots to gain strength cos thats how they role and use his boot strength to shove his sword into her head. It's an inconsistency in the game with bosses the creators obviously weren't trying to portray him as being able to lift 300 tons or what not. You need to realize this isn't how he is portrayed or scenes with him coraling an out of control horse would make no sense because he can lift a trillion tons....amirite ?

Stopping a goat or so also would be absolutely nothing to someone who can lift multiple tons. If your reasoning holds up why does he struggle to wield the ball and chain he should be able to effortlessly toss it with three fingers based on his super strength.


Anyone who comes away from this game and attaches meaningless numbers to boss battles and ignores how characters are portrayed during the actual story just don't or cannot comprehend the creators intent.


Uhm Link didn't fight anyone even close to Mother save Dorf who I also feel would fall drastically short against her. Link's boss fights are kinda lame by comparison and rarely is he fighting against an overwhelming force at any given time.

When has Link taken on anyone like the mother with the power behind her or the abilities who has shown to be table to take on a party of four along with ancient tevinter weapons you can bring to bear against her.

Again claiming Bo is super strong or Link while they have to tense up to stop what a running goat and need boots to take on anything which outweighs them is just plain ridiculous. According to you everyone in zelda is just some super strong stud and let's ignore everything else in the game. The feats it's all about the feats.Originally posted by NemeBro
Name a single person she beat.

I think she MAY have killed one of her own punk-ass Darkspawn, but I am not even sure of that.

She has beaten no one of any importance at all. So by this logic let's say gladiator from marvel comics exiles loses to link because he didn't beat anyone. Worst logic I ever heard.

Well Quan, if we went on portrayal Link still wins. He is portrayed as an incredibly courageous and skilled man who always manages to conquer incredible odds.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Hey, you know what? Link's resistence didn't fail either. So what wins? The canon resistence or the featless gameplay ability? Hmmm.



Link just let King Bulblin hit him with an axe and was fine. So if Mother isn't as strong as King Bulblin, he'll also be fine. Oh, and Yeto knocking him across the room? That didn't hurt him either, so thanks for that.



Dragon Age magic is powered by mana. Twilight Princess Magic Armor is not powered by mana. It is, in fact, powered by money. The Glyph of Neutralization does not drain money. And even if it did, Link would have to be standing in it, which he won't be.



I thought you didn't want to use cutscenes? Regardless, all Zelda games are about Link improving his skills, so things that are in the past aren't great indicators. Since, you know, Link defeated Zant, that scene is no longer applicable. And he wasn't wearing the magic armor, of course.



You keep saying that no one ever died. This confuses me, because you don't actually know that for a fact. You are aware that the main users of the sky cannon were not people, but birds? It was designed for birds. No human has ever used this cannon before Link did. Birds might be able to survive because they can freaking fly, but you have no way of knowing that it was designed for human travel, since the thing is only used by birds. BIRDS, Quanchi.



Just magically appearing is common sense to you? Sounds more like gameplay mechanics to me, but hey, you allowed them. Link never canonically fell off the city, and the only time he did in canon, was with an actual cannon. Which he survived.



What way is it referred to? When Ooccoo, the BIRD, asks you to find the BIRD CANNON so that she can go to the City in the Sky so she can join all her BIRD friends. And then Link does find the BIRD CANNON and uses it to go to the City full of BIRDS so he can get the Mirror Shard.

BIRDS.



I think you don't understand how strength and weight works. Without the added weight Link can't avoid being moved. With them, he avoids being pushed around so that he can apply his strength. Despite what you may think, being heavy does not make people stronger.



I asked you for evidnce, which you have repeated refused to give me. You've admitted to wasting my time, because without the evidence backing you up, your claims are nothing. All you need to do is get some evidence. That's it. It's easy.



I'm arguing because Link's opponent is just not very powerful and I have seen Link take down things stronger than the Mother. Most bosses bosses in Twilight Princess make that cut.



Ganondorf can transform into a giant pig without the Triforce lighting up. Glowing is not a good indicator. And we saw it lighting up when Ganondrf was talking. It was just glowing that time because that was the first time it was activated and Ganondorf had just recieved it. It wasn't glowing when he killed the Sage, either.



He can swing a sword without needing the boots. And as BloodRain said, Link could just equip them right before stabbing the Mother. Hell, he could put them on and then Clawshot right into her face to commence with the violence. Hopefully the Clawshot won't just pull her head off.



Bo has tusks. The man is not human.



Throw Dangoro off ledge. Trip Fyrus. Throw Blizzeta across the room. Link can cut Darknut armor to pieces, why do you ignore that? And I've never seen a Darknuts parry any of Link's attacks. I've seen them block with a shield, but never once parry him. I've also seen Link knock that shield from their hand at the same time he cleaves their armor.



How does he get killed if he shoots the Mother from outside her range? He can just Clawshot up to the Mother instantly, and kill her in one move before any of the tentacles reach him. He could stand in a circle of tentacles and Great Spin Attack all of them at once, leaving the Mother defensesless. He could keep attacking regardless of the tentacle, because it can't hurt him or get past his armor.

There's no way for the Mother to win.



Stop changing your stance, please. Why are gameplay mechanics suddenly unuseable when you've been allowing them for the past several pages? And I've told you, Ganondorf wasn't strong before he got the Triforce of Power. Only after was he permanently super strong and durable.



Fused Shadows. Mirror Shards. Both resisted. Stop ignoring them.



Just because you're not using the word doesn't mean you're not still making a personal attack. It's not the same thing and his resistance didn't stop him from turning into a wolf either. Lots of things effected him like say Zant who effortlessly beat him early on in the game. Link hasn't shown any resistance to any energy attacks or energies against him.

One attack he might shrug off but two or three doubtful and you have to worry about the tentacles also. Link hasn't shown he can resist plain old lame plants who attack him so Mother is really going to hurt him.

The armor is powered by magic which is taken away. The armor isn't powered by money it's a gameplay mechanic.

It is applicable. Link beat him but early on Zant dominated him. So they are 1-1 against each other.

You can't say it's ever harmed anyone nor can you say the creators intended on Link being unable to be hurt by these scenes by 20,000 falls. Come on no one buys this argument not even for a second.

We see Link gets hurt bigtime or dies if he falls. If he was unable to be hurt by falling great heights then why put it in the game at all ?

Irl being heavy does play a factor in strength. I mean I can't lift as much at 165 say as I can at 185. This should be common sense that meatier people on average are stronger than twerps. Someone might be naturally strong but that person can always lift more when they weigh more.

What evidence am i refusing to give ?

Strength doesn't always equal victor. You do realize this right ? Or in your world does stronger mean auto win ?

Dorf can transform yes but when he needs to resist injuries or get freakishly stronger in any form he needs to access the power triforce.

Link can swipe at the Mother because she takes oodles and oodles of damage she isn't getting one shotted nor does Link one shot any bosses in his own game.


Is Bo super strong iyo?

Link is strong enough to damage the bosses or use the boots to give him the weight needed to perform feats. Yes, yes we have already covered this.

Link is strong enough to hurt her just like she is strong enough to hurt him.

When has Link killed any boss in one move or when was the Mother killed in one move ?

The tentacles are busy attacking him his spin attack could hit them but the tentacles are also hitting him. She is sitting back and casting berserk to which he swings senselessly then dies.


He turned into a wolf and need Midna's aid and he also was easily beaten by Zant and resisted nothing. He can't resist Zant's offensive attacks nor can he resist the Mother's.

Fine then I allowed dorf and Link's feat but it's not impressive because dorf isn't super strong unless tapping into it.

I am not making a personal attack you know how I feel.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Well Quan, if we went on portrayal Link still wins. He is portrayed as an incredibly courageous and skilled man who always manages to conquer incredible odds. Nah, he failed against Zant and was spared. Like in any game the hero always overcomes incredible odds. I mean acting like Link isn't going to win at the end is just silly.

Lol. Spared? He failed against Zant due to a lack of a rather important item referred to as the Master Sword. And they escaped with their lives because of the Light Spirit saving them. Otherwise Zant would have killed Link right there and taken Midna prisoner. He'd have been better off reversing their positions.

And yeah. Exactly. Aren't we supposed to take into account the way the character is written? Link is written to always win in the end.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Lol. Spared? He failed against Zant due to a lack of a rather important item referred to as the Master Sword. And they escaped with their lives because of the Light Spirit saving them. Otherwise Zant would have killed Link right there and taken Midna prisoner. He'd have been better off reversing their positions.

And yeah. Exactly. Aren't we supposed to take into account the way the character is written? Link is written to always win in the end. Good you admit Link needs tons of help and later with the right amount of help he can defeat him.

Link wins in the end against the pathetic opposition. It's not organized and moronic imo.

Well, first, your opinion doesn't mean jack shit. But don't feel bad, because mine doesn't either. They aren't supposed to.

And yeah, when faced with someone as powerful as Ganondorf and Zant, and he does not have the Master Sword, he needs help to survive.

He really never gets a whole lot of help. Most anyone who isn't Zelda just tell him somewhere he has to go to get an item he can use. He always wins his fights on his own. All the other characters basically amount to "The big scary monster is over thar!"

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Well, first, your opinion doesn't mean jack shit. But don't feel bad, because mine doesn't either. They aren't supposed to.

And yeah, when faced with someone as powerful as Ganondorf and Zant, and he does not have the Master Sword, he needs help to survive.

He really never gets a whole lot of help. Most anyone who isn't Zelda just tell him somewhere he has to go to get an item he can use. He always wins his fights on his own. All the other characters basically amount to "The big scary monster is over thar!" I don't see either as that powerful tbh.

Most heros in games usually receive help in some form I do admit but this guy just doesn't face the dire odds most heroes do. I just don't see dorf or zant as all that.

I thought you played Ocarina of Time?

Oh, and I hope that:

"Most heroes in games do receive help I admit"

wasn't replying to anything I said. Because I didn't try to make that point at all.

I also know that last part. Which is why you're wrong.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I thought you played Ocarina of Time?

Oh, and I hope that:

"Most heroes in games do receive help I admit"

wasn't replying to anything I said. Because I didn't try to make that point at all.

I also know that last part. Which is why you're wrong. Never beat it. Near the end and I missed something. I quit it for the time being but I mean I am right near the end but most of the enemies were similar to tp. Dragons, giant spiders, etc.

By this point you've seen most of the game. How do you not understand how dire the situation really is?

Even when Zelda tells Link to get his hands on the Master Sword, she makes it clear that with the Triforce of Power, they still cannot kill him. The goal with this blade at that point is to weaken him enough to imprison him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's not the same thing and his resistance didn't stop him from turning into a wolf either. Lots of things effected him like say Zant who effortlessly beat him early on in the game. Link hasn't shown any resistance to any energy attacks or energies against him.

The Master Sword increased his resistence, Quanchi. It turned him back and prevented him from transforming in the Twilight Realm. The thing is that you keep using Link at his weakest when you should know darn well he gets stronger and better as the game goes on.



Why would he need to show resistence to plants when he has shown resistance to axes? Link hasn't shwn a vulnerability, either, so I don't see why you bring this up.



If you're disallowing only Link's gameplay, that's a double standard. We can just use cutscenes, then, where all it takes to kill Mother is a teeny weeny little knife.



Key phrase: Early on. Link gets stronger and better over the games, and by the time he fought Zant for real, he was stronger than Zant and better than Zant.



By this logic Mother can't win since she's never killed anyone. Come on. But if you insist on this, I hope you realize that you are saying that anyone in Twilight Princess could survive that cannon, so everyone in Twilight Princess is superhumanly durable.



Because if he fell off of the City, there's no telling where he'd land and might be unable to reach the cannon. Easier to just have him start again.



So putting on heavy boots does make people stronger. Gotcha. Though you are doing is backwards. Heavy people aren't strong, but strong people are usually heavy. Stronger people have more muscle, which weighs a lot. Fat people weigh a lot, but don't have much muscle.



All of it. Name a claim, you haven't posted evidence for it.



Of course, but Link's strength makes it more likely that his first blow is fatal. And if Mother isn't strong enough to hurt him, she's out of luck.



Nah. See, according to you, if the Triforce isn't glowing, Ganondorf isn't using it. But that's not true. There are several times when Ganondorf does something without the glow, or does nothing with the glow. It's known that the Triforce of Power is passive, not active, or else it's active all the time.



Mortal Draw, though. Or, if you don't want to use gameplay mechanics, tiny knife.



Yes.



Yeah, and why can't Link just clawshot over to her stab her with his super boot strength?



Evidence shows she isn't, though.



Armoghoma can be killed in one hit, and Mother was killed in one hit by a tiny knife in non-gameplay mechanics cutscene.



As soon as Link uses the Great Spin Attack every single tentacle will be chopped in two. Link resists the berserk and kills Mother.



All in the past. None of that phases him now that he's improved.



How do you know he wasn't?



And saying that is a personal attack.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So by this logic let's say gladiator from marvel comics exiles loses to link because he didn't beat anyone. Worst logic I ever heard. Does Gladiator have feats to put him above Link?

The kind of feats Mother does not have?

Originally posted by The Scenario
The Master Sword increased his resistence, Quanchi. It turned him back and prevented him from transforming in the Twilight Realm. The thing is that you keep using Link at his weakest when you should know darn well he gets stronger and better as the game goes on.



Why would he need to show resistence to plants when he has shown resistance to axes? Link hasn't shwn a vulnerability, either, so I don't see why you bring this up.



If you're disallowing only Link's gameplay, that's a double standard. We can just use cutscenes, then, where all it takes to kill Mother is a teeny weeny little knife.



Key phrase: Early on. Link gets stronger and better over the games, and by the time he fought Zant for real, he was stronger than Zant and better than Zant.



By this logic Mother can't win since she's never killed anyone. Come on. But if you insist on this, I hope you realize that you are saying that anyone in Twilight Princess could survive that cannon, so everyone in Twilight Princess is superhumanly durable.



Because if he fell off of the City, there's no telling where he'd land and might be unable to reach the cannon. Easier to just have him start again.



So putting on heavy boots does make people stronger. Gotcha. Though you are doing is backwards. Heavy people aren't strong, but strong people are usually heavy. Stronger people have more muscle, which weighs a lot. Fat people weigh a lot, but don't have much muscle.



All of it. Name a claim, you haven't posted evidence for it.



Of course, but Link's strength makes it more likely that his first blow is fatal. And if Mother isn't strong enough to hurt him, she's out of luck.



Nah. See, according to you, if the Triforce isn't glowing, Ganondorf isn't using it. But that's not true. There are several times when Ganondorf does something without the glow, or does nothing with the glow. It's known that the Triforce of Power is passive, not active, or else it's active all the time.



Mortal Draw, though. Or, if you don't want to use gameplay mechanics, tiny knife.



Yes.



Yeah, and why can't Link just clawshot over to her stab her with his super boot strength?



Evidence shows she isn't, though.



Armoghoma can be killed in one hit, and Mother was killed in one hit by a tiny knife in non-gameplay mechanics cutscene.



As soon as Link uses the Great Spin Attack every single tentacle will be chopped in two. Link resists the berserk and kills Mother.



All in the past. None of that phases him now that he's improved.



How do you know he wasn't?



And saying that is a personal attack. It increased it. Increasing resistance also doesn't equal total immunity.

Link isn't immaune to xaes he shurged off one blow. Now trying to say axes can't hurt him is just asinine. Like I said someone shrugging off a punch irl doesn't mean all punches can't hurt you. You need to think about this realistically.

I am allowing it. It's powered by magic so the armor is rendered useless by draining the magic of it temporarily.

A knife after you beat her ass for a boss battle. You don't just walk up and toss a knife. If I beat someone up with 3 people and use a pillow to kill them afterwards we don't ignore the beat down prior to the smother and assume all I need is a pillow.

Link doesn't get stronger as the game goes along. Not by a considerable difference sure his experiences help him become more skilled and smarter but he doesn't just change dramatically and become super strong as the game progresses.


Zant isn't strong so what does him being stronger than zant have to do with anything ? It doesn't. Zant uses magical abilities so strength has nothing to do with his arsenal.

The cannon wasn't meant to kill anyone in the game anyone can survive it. You try and pretend it's a feat for Link despite it's actual portrayal in the game.

No, because he can't fall great distances and live. The cannon isn't designed to kill anyone.

In this game the boots give the wearer the weight needed against them which is also a secret the gorons would have no respect for. Strength for strength they >>>>Link without the boots.

Heavier people are stronger than skinnier people. Same person as stronger with more weight than skinnier. Don't compare fat to muscular compare yourself at a certain body weight to yourself at a certain body weight. I am really good at this debating thing, eh ?

I don't post videos see for people who don't play the games they need it because they are ignorant to the actual game.

What boss can Link kill with one blow ?

Yes, true but when it's active he is drawing the necessary power to overcome the obstacles in front of him which he did twice.

Mortal draw then he dies. There was a fight that happened before tiny knife. Context.

Based on what ? Him fleeing from a wolf or stopping goats ?

He can but he is getting attacked while he does so. Link is getting pummeled by multiple tentacles.

What enemy in zelda can't hurt link due to not being strong enough ? Give me an enemy so by your rational anything in zelda and everything is stronger than mother from the lowliest of enemies, eight ?

Which boss was that ?

Link hasn't shown an ability to resist an enemy attack so why this one ? You can't just cleave the tentacles in two that easily. I have no idea what game you are thinking about here.

Based on ?

Because only time he was ever this strong is when he tapped into it.

That's my opinion. I am not saying it again just drop it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It increased it. Increasing resistance also doesn't equal total immunity.


But Mother has never peirced a resistance, so she can't peirce Link's.



Only if he was hit by a stronger person with that axe. I'm saying that if Link can take a punch, a poke won't bother him. Mother = poke.



So you're changing the rules to let Mother win? Great.



But the battle is gameplay mechanics, which you won't let me use. So it's only fair that you don't use them, either. Mother was killed in cutscene by a tiny knife. And you could kill someone with a pillow without beating them first, same with a knife.



Well, yeah, he started off super strong. But if you don't see Link getting better, you're missing the point of Zelda. It's a classic story, the farmboy becoming a great hero and defeating the evil. That's how Link is portrayed: constantly improving.



I said stronger and better, not just stronger. And I'm not talking about physical strength, either. Link won, so by that point he's better than Zant. And he just kept improving.



'K, you now believe every person in Hyrule can survive a sky cannon despite it being made for BIRDS. Everyone in Hyrule is superhuman now.



Roller coasters aren't meant to kill anyone, but that doesn't stop them, does it? You're still arguing that everyone in Hyrule is superhuman.



Nothing to do with strength, it's all about weight. Once Link has the weight, his natural strength is above a Goron.



No, you're still not getting it. Do you really think a fat guy who never works out can lift more than a skinny weightlifter? If a fat guy lost weight and gained some muscles he'd be stronger and lighter.



You said you would post scan in the comic forum. Why won't you post videos here? It's the same thing.



Ball and Chain dude can go down in one hit if you do it right.



And he doesn't do it more often than he does. How do you know doesn't just keep it active?



Doesn't need Mortal Draw to kill Mother. The fight was gameplay, whiich you aren't letting me use.



Beating a Goron.



He cuts them all apart with one spin attack.



In cutscene, King Bulblin. You won't let me use gameplay anyway, so it doesn't matter.



Spider.



Yes, he has with King Bulblin. What durability feats do the tentacles have?



Based on him destroying Zant and none of it phasing him, obviously.



Not even. Remember the Sage he killed while it wasn't glowing?



Whatever.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's an inconsistency in the game with bosses the creators obviously weren't trying to portray him as being able to lift 300 tons or what not. You need to realize this isn't how he is portrayed or scenes with him coraling an out of control horse would make no sense because he can lift a trillion tons....amirite ?

Stopping a goat or so also would be absolutely nothing to someone who can lift multiple tons. If your reasoning holds up why does he struggle to wield the ball and chain he should be able to effortlessly toss it with three fingers based on his super strength.

Anyone who comes away from this game and attaches meaningless numbers to boss battles and ignores how characters are portrayed during the actual story just don't or cannot comprehend the creators intent.

Uhm Link didn't fight anyone even close to Mother save Dorf who I also feel would fall drastically short against her. Link's boss fights are kinda lame by comparison and rarely is he fighting against an overwhelming force at any given time.

When has Link taken on anyone like the mother with the power behind her or the abilities who has shown to be table to take on a party of four along with ancient tevinter weapons you can bring to bear against her.

Again claiming Bo is super strong or Link while they have to tense up to stop what a running goat and need boots to take on anything which outweighs them is just plain ridiculous. According to you everyone in zelda is just some super strong stud and let's ignore everything else in the game. The feats it's all about the feats.

Times in the game that Link shows above normal strength= 9. Inconsistent? No. Do these 9 different occurrences mean he's stronger then a normal person? Yes. Also ''Answer the question please quit avoiding actual specifics.'' If Link isnt portrayed to be strong and is of human strength, for the 4th time asking explain how he is able to knock that ice mass back. You not answering doesnt make the question disappear.

''You've gotten a sight stronger in the short time you've been gone.'' -Bo after his sumo match, 2h into the game. TfoC, as I said earlier, makes Link stronger and stronger. Proven in a few games now. Moves like that for gameplay, proven as he can swing it over his head and throw it a far distance with enough force to shatter walls of ice <- things he'd be unable to do if he wasn't strong. Keep in mind the thing must weigh a ton which means even when you try to call him out on this youre admitting he's above human strength~

9 instances has Link being above human strength. If Link wasnt portrayed to be strong he wouldnt have a single strength feat :/

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091222164858/zelda/images/8/8b/Diababa.png
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100107003653/zelda/images/2/27/Stallord.png
Big pics but meh. Like Mother they dont move and use other methods to reach distances. Unlike Mother theyre far larger with a longer reach. And you cant claim shes above Ganon with your word alone. What powers and abilities? Youve failed to mention a single one besides ''she can take on four at a time'' and lose.

Never claimed Bo was super strong now did I? I said he's of sumo/weightlifters build so is naturally a strong human, who Link bested in a contest of strength. Yeah no, the goat was at the start before the TfoC kicked in ie before Bo said ^that quote. Haha wow the only human like beings ive, and anyone here has said are super strong are Link and Dorf. What have you been reading? Fine, feats it is:
-Link beats Bo in a strength match. Bo is a strong human.
-Link throws Goron's over his shoulder. Boots cant lift things.
-Then beats Goron's in sumo. Boots can't push things.
-Hurls Dangoro behind him. Boots cant throw things.
-Trips over Fyrus by yanking his chains. Boots can't hold things.
-Swings and throws the Ball and Chain with force. No human can throw that weight with the force to shatter ice walls.
-Lifts some chandeliers. Large chandeliers.
-Knocks back a 3 story ice mass. 3 story ice mass is self explanatory.
-Link beats Dorf in their clash. Dorf at his weakest in game broke chains that no human can.
Taking away youre view that boots make him strong with no evidence of proof to back it up, thats several instances so how is not portrayed as strong again?

Now to ask questions that you will most likely dance around to not answer: How can boots increase ones strength when its not stated to do so? How can said boots allow something the size of Dangoro to be over Link's head and not crush him? How can someone knock back that giant ice mass and still be considered human? What gives you the impression that Link isnt portrayed as strong? Do the Dragon Age warriors have any strength feats? Does Mother have any feats at all and what does she hope to to do beat Link? I'll be waiting.