Seth vs Darkseid

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King Castle
ko, kill... forum rules.

lets get it on!!

YFZ 350
Going with Darkseid.

King Castle
bump one more time....

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/9043/Seth.jpg

zopzop
Seth all day everyday. Anyone able to give Odin trouble for a few panels > someone who loses to Superman.

Black bolt z
The Odin equal seth beats him.

Otherwise DS.

quanchi112
Seth wins.

TheTyrant
Seth.

iceman24567
DS

-Pr-
Originally posted by zopzop
someone who loses to Superman.

because that's some kind of low feat.

zopzop
Originally posted by -Pr-
because that's some kind of low feat.

Ordinarily you'd have a point, but isn't Darkseid a BBEG? He should have no business losing to Superman barring plot devices.

The fact that he does and repeatedly means Seth smacks him with his gimp hand and KO's his @$$.

Fight over.

-Pr-
Originally posted by zopzop
Ordinarily you'd have a point, but isn't Darkseid a BBEG? He should have no business losing to Superman barring plot devices.

The fact that he does and repeatedly means Seth smacks him with his gimp hand and KO's his @$$.

Fight over.

He's actually shown himself to be Superman's superior more than once. Superman has to up his game just to be able to compete with him, like he did in the Supergirl arc.

BBEG?

quanchi112
Originally posted by zopzop
Ordinarily you'd have a point, but isn't Darkseid a BBEG? He should have no business losing to Superman barring plot devices.

The fact that he does and repeatedly means Seth smacks him with his gimp hand and KO's his @$$.

Fight over. Superman is greater than darkseid at his best. Saying he has no business beating Darkseid is ignoring various writers matching them up in comics time and time again.

Now if it's just one showing I can see where someone might have a problem with it but it's more than a few showings to it's been established these two are peers in power. I also see Superman as being more powerful and subscribe to jurgens thoughts on the matter regarding these two.

iceman24567
Originally posted by -Pr-
He's actually shown himself to be Superman's superior more than once. Superman has to up his game just to be able to compete with him, like he did in the Supergirl arc.

BBEG? BigBadEvilGod?

SquallX
Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman is greater than darkseid at his best. Saying he has no business beating Darkseid is ignoring various writers matching them up in comics time and time again.

Now if it's just one showing I can see where someone might have a problem with it but it's more than a few showings to it's been established these two are peers in power. I also see Superman as being more powerful and subscribe to jurgens thoughts on the matter regarding these two.

Did you forget the part where all the Darkseid showings were just mere avatars of his true self.

quanchi112
Originally posted by SquallX
Did you forget the part where all the Darkseid showings were just mere avatars of his true self. We've never seen darkseid fight really in fc so we fall back on these showings since fc didn't show much of anything here.

Uriel005
Originally posted by SquallX
Did you forget the part where all the Darkseid showings were just mere avatars of his true self. He's also been confirmed to be afraid of Doomsday. Superman has beaten Doomsday. Superman has survived Omega beams. Superman is the good analogue to Darkseid and in comics good inevitably gives you a natural 20 for success in the end. so Superman via goodness > Darkseid. Also Superman's powerset in baseline physical stats are off the charts if you go by feats in his better days before DC decided that they ran out of stuff to throw at Superman because of his near judeo christian god levels.

Average superman in the ye olden times-
Holding a black hole -Check
Sneezing a solar system into nothingness -check
Beating just about every villain in DC- check
On average defeating DS and saving the day -check
Moving planets- check
Coming up with crazy invention that is instawin i.e. phantom zone projection -check



Here's the important one

still far less than galaxy busting Seth -check

so Seth>Normal Supes>Darkseid

I reserve the right to say that nothing is stronger than a peak supes however big grin Cosmic Armor ftw

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman is greater than darkseid at his best. Saying he has no business beating Darkseid is ignoring various writers matching them up in comics time and time again.

Now if it's just one showing I can see where someone might have a problem with it but it's more than a few showings to it's been established these two are peers in power. I also see Superman as being more powerful and subscribe to jurgens thoughts on the matter regarding these two.

superman at his best is better than damn near anyone, so the point is moot.

zopzop
Originally posted by -Pr-
superman at his best is better than damn near anyone, so the point is moot.

BBEG : Big Bad Evil Guy. "Boss" level characters that require a team to beat. big grin

And there is NO way Superman, even at his best, is doing anything to a guy that gave Odin a hard time unless the amount of PIS involved was legendary.

Prep-Man
DS.

Allankles
DS and hard. Omega Sanction ends the fight in seconds.

Allankles
Originally posted by zopzop
Seth all day everyday. Anyone able to give Odin trouble for a few panels > someone who loses to Superman.

Heh! If Odin were a bad guy Supes would absolutely break his teeth. His loses to Supes are neither here no there since he wasn't actually using his powers beyond brawling with one of the best brawlers in comicdom.

At the same time people will ignore the many instances where he's gotten the upper hand on Superman post crisis. Even KO'ing Supes and the rest of the justice league core all at once.

In fact the last two times they fought before Final Crisis (Ignoring the SF DS) he defeated Supes hands down, knocking him out in Countdown with matter manip on Jimmy who'd become an NG conduit and nearly killing him on Apokolips before Mr. Miracle came to the rescue with the ALE .

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
superman at his best is better than damn near anyone, so the point is moot. No, he isn't. He's just like any elite top tier hero at his best. Superman needs help and gets it just like any other major hero.

TheLordofMurder
Heres the thing...

Darkseids Omega Effect isnt portrayed as it was originally presented; the Omega Effect is supposed to erase any being that is not essential to the universe...

But since it has failed to erase HP Doomsday (whom I have no doubt is NOT essential to the universe), then I have no doubt that Seth should be able to resist being erased as well...

In conclusion, I pick Seth to crush DS 10/10...

King Castle
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Heres the thing...

Darkseids Omega Effect isnt portrayed as it was originally presented; the Omega Effect is supposed to erase any being that is not essential to the universe...

But since it has failed to erase HP Doomsday (whom I have no doubt is NOT essential to the universe), then I have no doubt that Seth should be able to resist being erased as well...

In conclusion, I pick Seth to crush DS 10/10... but that was only an avatar.... it doesnt count. angel

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by King Castle
but that was only an avatar.... it doesnt count. angel

So it is written...

But we know it was really him and the Omega Effect failed...

King Castle
but in forum we use his true form, you know the new full explanation of his character... angel

Allankles
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Heres the thing...

Darkseids Omega Effect isnt portrayed as it was originally presented; the Omega Effect is supposed to erase any being that is not essential to the universe...

But since it has failed to erase HP Doomsday (whom I have no doubt is NOT essential to the universe), then I have no doubt that Seth should be able to resist being erased as well...

In conclusion, I pick Seth to crush DS 10/10...

Which is why it's PIS. The OE works like fire on oil, it's not about the level of energy put into it but the specific reaction to the target. If the OE hits a living being that being is erased from existence. Any portrayal where DS has to amp the power of the omega beams like they're merely for disintegration tells us he is not actually using the OE (the end of the end/the total wipeout).

Getting disintegrated is not the same as being wiped out of existence; the former simply requires vast amounts of physical energy, the latter is a mystical reality warping ability unique to the omega force.

Allankles
In the case of Superman he uses disintegration beams because the OE doesn't work on him because of his role in the universe. In the case of DD he doesn't need to do that outside of PIS. It also suggests to us that DS was a top tier to Jurgens.

Kirby's, Morrison's, Kupperberg's Levitz's, David's and maybe Bryne's Darkseid are Skyfather and beyond, Jurgens' Darkseid is a top tier.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Allankles
In the case of Superman he uses disintegration beams because the OE doesn't work on him because of his role in the universe. In the case of DD he doesn't need to do that outside of PIS. It also suggests to us that DS was a top tier to Jurgens.

Kirby's, Morrison's, Kupperberg's Levitz's, David's and maybe Bryne's Darkseid are Skyfather and beyond, Jurgens' Darkseid is a top tier. When has this been stated ?

Allankles
Originally posted by quanchi112
When has this been stated ?

About Superman's importance to cosmic balance? FC & Trinity off the top of my head.

King Castle
Originally posted by Allankles
About Superman's importance to cosmic balance? FC & Trinity off the top of my head. you are using trinity as your source material, is that even canon i didnt understand it at all with how it could even fit with continuity and that is saying something with dc..

quanchi112
Originally posted by Allankles
About Superman's importance to cosmic balance? FC & Trinity off the top of my head. No, when has this ever been stated as the reason Ds can't kill superman with his ob.

KuRuPT Thanosi
It's not canon

iceman24567
Trinity is canon no expression

KuRuPT Thanosi
Really? That was just a pile.. a pile

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he isn't.

Yes, he is.

Originally posted by King Castle
you are using trinity as your source material, is that even canon i didnt understand it at all with how it could even fit with continuity and that is saying something with dc..

We get it; you hate DC.

King Castle
Originally posted by iceman24567
Trinity is canon no expression this looks canon to you?
let alone apply the reasoning to the current DCU?

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/dccomics/trinity/44/Trinity044022_sm.jpg

iceman24567
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Really? That was just a pile.. a pile Agreed
Originally posted by King Castle
this looks canon to you?
let alone apply the reasoning to the current DCU?

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/dccomics/trinity/44/Trinity044022_sm.jpg Looks can be deceiving shifty

King Castle
Originally posted by -Pr-
Yes, he is.



We get it; you hate DC. no, just superman, Wonderwoman, aquaman, DD, DS, Desaad(wait never mind i like desaad)...Batgirl, batgod, Shiva, Black Canary, Captain Atom...the source..spectre...the word... the inconsistent history of one character being altered from last year and the year before with completely new origin and even background and name... also the U spanning retcons that come like clockwork that solves none of the problems created.. oh yeh, damian... rainbow corps BS..Zoom Zoom...Deathstroke(foolishness)

other then that i like it just fine.. batman arkam asylum.. the ray, superboy(prior to retcon origin).. nightwing bludhaven series... hal, kyle guy awesome cats, secret six(beautiful).. cool

iceman24567
Secret Six is awesome

King Castle
i just dont like foolishness and writing that insults ones intelligence and pisses on past writers..

hence not a fan of guys like Giant-man.. Banner tech god anymore then i am a fan of guys like Aquaman and his wet hand eaten by piranhas who can get shot by sea shells and next day lifting a city block and hitting a herald being and TP that can give an abstract a seizure..

zopzop
Originally posted by Allankles
Heh! If Odin were a bad guy Supes would absolutely break his teeth. His loses to Supes are neither here no there since he wasn't actually using his powers beyond brawling with one of the best brawlers in comicdom.

At the same time people will ignore the many instances where he's gotten the upper hand on Superman post crisis. Even KO'ing Supes and the rest of the justice league core all at once.

In fact the last two times they fought before Final Crisis (Ignoring the SF DS) he defeated Supes hands down, knocking him out in Countdown with matter manip on Jimmy who'd become an NG conduit and nearly killing him on Apokolips before Mr. Miracle came to the rescue with the ALE .

Seth and Odin are magical beings who operate on a (minimum) galactic level. They'd look at Superman dirty and vaporize his sorry self. Darkseid dies just as easily.

A better match up would be pre rez Thanos vs Darkseid. Seth or Odin are too much for him.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
Yes, he is.



We get it; you hate DC. He needs help and like all heroes face overwhelming odds yet survives again and again.

zopzop
PS King Castle

I agree 100% with your assessment of DC and the current "Banner Tech/Giant Man" wank at Marvel.

quanchi112
Originally posted by zopzop
Seth and Odin are magical beings who operate on a (minimum) galactic level. They'd look at Superman dirty and vaporize his sorry self. Darkseid dies just as easily.

A better match up would be pre rez Thanos vs Darkseid. Seth or Odin are too much for him. What do you mean pre rez Thanos ?

-Pr-
Originally posted by King Castle
i just dont like foolishness and writing that insults ones intelligence and pisses on past writers..

hence not a fan of guys like Giant-man.. Banner tech god anymore then i am a fan of guys like Aquaman and his wet hand eaten by piranhas who can get shot by sea shells and next day lifting a city block and hitting a herald being and TP that can give an abstract a seizure..

facepalm

it isn't "the next day".

seriously, you're almost trolling now.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He needs help and like all heroes face overwhelming odds yet survives again and again.

no he doesn't.

he does it better than pretty much anyone else.



also, as far as Pym goes? Some of us have had to put up with 20+ years of writers shitting all over characters and making them look bad unfairly. It's Pym's turn to get a bit respect, so stop being so damn petty, please.

zopzop
Before his current resurrection.

King Castle
sooo... Seth touch and eye blast can destroy all organic/living matter...

Darkseid has his OB's...

wonder what would happen?mhmm

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
facepalm

also, as far as Pym goes? Some of us have had to put up with 20+ years of writers shitting all over characters and making them look bad unfairly. It's Pym's turn to get a bit respect, so stop being so damn petty, please.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
facepalm

it isn't "the next day".

seriously, you're almost trolling now.



no he doesn't.

he does it better than pretty much anyone else.



also, as far as Pym goes? Some of us have had to put up with 20+ years of writers shitting all over characters and making them look bad unfairly. It's Pym's turn to get a bit respect, so stop being so damn petty, please. The reason he is on the jla's team is because these threats are typically bigger than what Superman can handle on his own. I also don't think he does it better than anyone else. No hero can take every mega threat on their own when they quit holding back. No they can prevail with aid though but we all know the hero survives 90 percent of the time anyways so despite the horrible predicaments they find themselves in we know at the end of the day they will survive.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
The reason he is on the jla's team is because these threats are typically bigger than what Superman can handle on his own. I also don't think he does it better than anyone else. No hero can take every mega threat on their own when they quit holding back. No they can prevail with aid though but we all know the hero survives 90 percent of the time anyways so despite the horrible predicaments they find themselves in we know at the end of the day they will survive.

And yet he's dealt with threats by himself that were bigger than the JLA.

So no, that's not generally why he's in the JLA. The same could be said for half the members in the team too.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
And yet he's dealt with threats by himself that were bigger than the JLA.

So no, that's not generally why he's in the JLA. The same could be said for half the members in the team too. So has Thor and other major elite top tiers. They can't always beat these threats on their own.

Badabing
Quan, give it a rest. Pr is not as forgiving as some of the other mods in the CB vs forum/. And Pr is 100% correct.

Castle, read above.

If I here one more thing from this thread, I'll refer it to Peach and Rex. And you both know what that means.

Uriel005
Seth 8/10 Darkseid suffers from too much PIS either in his favor or against. Until I see more of this newly formatted DS I'm going to have to go with his original origin. Darkseid had a good story and was a sufficiently strong character that he could pull about equal to moderately top level superman excluding his stupidly powerful versions where he breathes too hard and kills H/P Doomsday level characters.Seth is still better as he DS operates on a one to one basis. Seth operates on a galaxy/universe level basis whenever he fights with Odin.

Allankles
Originally posted by zopzop
Seth and Odin are magical beings who operate on a (minimum) galactic level. They'd look at Superman dirty and vaporize his sorry self. Darkseid dies just as easily.

A better match up would be pre rez Thanos vs Darkseid. Seth or Odin are too much for him.

Yikes! You honestly think Seth or Odin would be the most powerful threat Supes faced down head on, one on one? His entire history he's faced down threats that would overwhelm an Odin or Seth. In post crisis he's faced such threats as Dominus, War World Braniac 13 and Emperor Joker.

And for your information Darkseid is a universal threat, who always seems to get the upperhand on the other gods (even siphoning power from several pantheons) so I don't know what you're on about saying Seth is beyond him. A few rough outings with Superman and now he's chopped liver? We all know Supes would drop Seth if he was as prominent a villain in DC as DS was.

The durability (of his avatars at least) may be top tier but DS is well within, if not beyond, Seth's weight class. And besides, he has two nasty one shot reality altering abilities in the OS and OE.

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