Sabretooth vs Lizard & Vermin
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King Castle
ko, kill.. forum rules.
carver9
If this is adamantium sabertooth he win this 6/10 if this isn't adamantium sabes he lose 9/10.
King Castle
why do you think adamantium would make such a big difference?
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
If this is adamantium sabertooth he win this 6/10 if this isn't adamantium sabes he lose 9/10.
Carver, Carver...
facepalm
King Castle
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Carver, Carver...
facepalm explain his error how else can he learn if you dont enlighten him or us
Starscream M
Originally posted by King Castle
why do you think adamantium would make such a big difference? admantium makes sabretooth unkillable...without it, he's killable
jinzin
Sabretooth probably stomps after some tough fighting.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by King Castle
explain his error how else can he learn if you dont enlighten him or us
I was tired
Creed's organic claws were able to pierce Archangel's wings among other things. Lizard's hide is not unbreakable. Even if it resisted his claws, Sabes could always resort to the blunt force. Can't see him hurting his fist on Curtis, last time something like that happened was before his first upgrade. And it was adamantium jaw he punched then.
Vermin is tough... but c'mon, in this fight he's pretty much a non-factor. That is, unless he and Connors perfectly co-operate... which just ain't happening.
Originally posted by Starscream M
admantium makes sabretooth unkillable...without it, he's killable
They don't have what it takes to kill him, even if he just stood here.
SamZED
You guys make it sound like they're fightning the Hulk. The duo sure as hell can put him down, so if he's gonna win this he's gonna have to do his best. With adamantim its gonna be easier but even then he'd have to work for it.
jinzin
Sabretooth would not have to do anywhere near his best to beat this team.
SamZED
He's not gonna walk all over them either. Gonna be one brutal fight with them tearing and ripping each other and ST eventually overcoming the two.
jinzin
I can agree to that I guess.
SamZED
And you're right, I shouldnt have said "his best", he killed Wendigo "at his best", what I meant is - it just aint gonna be that easy for him.
753
Well, current lizard can mindrape legions, including superhumans so there is that. He is also pretty tough in physical combat.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by SamZED
You guys make it sound like they're fightning the Hulk. The duo sure as hell can put him down, so if he's gonna win this he's gonna have to do his best. With adamantim its gonna be easier but even then he'd have to work for it.
Sabretooth had so many upgrades it ain't funny. He actually became too powerful, IMO.
753
Still got pawned lef and right by logan in almost every subsequent appearance. After the wepaon x storyline, they pretty much ignored how much stronger he was supposed to have become and restored status quo.
snoopdogg
Originally posted by SamZED
And you're right, I shouldnt have said "his best", he killed Wendigo "at his best", what I meant is - it just aint gonna be that easy for him. That was PIS at it's best. Creed has no bussiness fighting a Wendigo.
King Castle
odd...seeing as its logan's business fighting the wendigo regular. why wouldnt it be Sabes's business to do the same?
snoopdogg
Last time I recall Logan fighting a Wendigo he needed some help.
King Castle
Pfff... he has fought the wendigo plenty of times solo back in the day
the 1st he did it along with hulk after that he had regular run ins with it alone and beat it, killed it and even Punked it by rage/intimidation alone.
he has fought it with a messed up healing factor and bone claws.. twice 1st time he almost died due to lack of power and durability. second time still weaken he used his surroundings and fought it no holds bar to save a child and chased it away.
one of the last times he ran up to alaska to help alpha flight and stop a sorcerer who took control of the wendigo who was near skyfather lvl in power.
also a few times he has fought windego is to distract it in order to lift the curse and safe the human with shaman. *shoulder Shrug.
logan has a great record against the wendigo always has.
Lord_Talron
I don't see how creed beats the lizard w.o adamantium. However the obvious lack of teamwork that I foRsee might be pretty damning
King Castle
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
I don't see how creed beats the lizard w.o adamantium. However the obvious lack of teamwork that I foRsee might be pretty damning what are the team going to do, ram each other by accident and start fighting each other?
why would Sabretooth need adamantium to beat lizard? he has the strength and claw power to pierce Lizard.
it's bn sufficient to tear into steel, techno organic metal, Namor Clone skin and the Wendigo.
Lord_Talron
You forget about lizards impressive hf and comparable str, speed and claw sharpness. And about teamwork, lizard sees fleshies as inferIor so I fail to see why he would have any interest in working with one just cuz
King Castle
i havent forgotten anything about lizard.
also sabretooth opponents have bn by far more impressive then lizards.
think of how hard wendigo's skin or Archangels wings have to be compared to lizard. plus Wendigo's Healing factor and the namor super clones. how sharp are wendigo's claws are as well.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=486007&pagenumber=32
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/CATMANEXE/wolvy/savage/Slimer-WolverineSAV_03.jpg
Lord_Talron
cept lizard has speed that surprises spiderman consistently unlike most of those bricks you mentioned
Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
cept lizard has speed that surprises spiderman consistently unlike most of those bricks you mentioned
yea and wolveirne showed speed that had spiderman guessing his own speed and sabre-tooth is faster then Wolverine.
He also far better fighter then lizard.
Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by 753
Still got pawned lef and right by logan in almost every subsequent appearance. After the wepaon x storyline, they pretty much ignored how much stronger he was supposed to have become and restored status quo.
No he hasent, you just complete made that up.
no it dident thats just more bullshit you came up with.
King Castle
i didnt feel like acknowledging his comment. otherwise i would have pointed at the sinister superclones who had superhuman speed along with their durability, strength, healing, optic blast and the super spestnaz admantium resistant skin and hyper/superhuman reflexes.
its just easier not to let it get to you...
The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by 753
Still got pawned lef and right by logan in almost every subsequent appearance. After the wepaon x storyline, they pretty much ignored how much stronger he was supposed to have become and restored status quo.
This is EXACTLY what I mean by readers intentionally misrepresenting facts. Actually, this is more of an out-right lie. Snoops claim that Logan needed help to fight the Wendigo is more of a misinterpretation.
Anyway, Logan was stomped by Creed during Rucka's run. Sabes had lost his adamantium at that point. Also, it took everything Logan had just to keep up with Creed the last time they fought in the Loeb run...the one where Logan decapitates Creed with the Marumasa. So, in no way shape or form does what you have stated here bear any truth.
The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Last time I recall Logan fighting a Wendigo he needed some help.
Do you recall correctly? Wolverine was holding his own in a three-way battle involving himself, Wendigo and Mauvis - they were tied and until Mauvis killed Wendigo - ate its heart and then had essentially the power of himself and the Wendigo combined. So Wolverine was essentially fighting a two-on one in that fight.
Starscream M
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
sabre-tooth is faster then Wolverine.
scans or issue #?
King Castle
Originally posted by Starscream M
scans or issue #? its bn repeatedly stated on panels by writer narration, admitted by characters like wolverine, sabretooth, kitty pride and other X-men.
it hasnt always bn so but after Sabes repeated upgrades to always be better then wolverine, Sabretooth is legitimately above him now, enough that he flaunts it to logan every chance he gets.
check the respect threads for scans.
The Real Wolvie
Anyway, considering how easily Wolverine powned Vermin and Bloodscream simultaneously - and in conjunction with how easily Wolverine beat the Lizard and even a super giagantic Lizard - Sabes stomps this pretty easily. Here's how the fight goes..
Exactly 3 seconds into the fight - Creed is laughing that these two are retarded enough to engage him in h2h. Vermin starts going on about how he can control rats and how it's going to give them an advantage somehow, and before he can finish his sentence Creed Grabs his skull and crushes it with one hand..he's too busy grinning and licking the brains and blood up while the Lizard manages to pop him with his tail.
Sabretooth: Not bad, bub...smack me with yer tail while my back is turned....
Lizard: hsssssss
Lizard tries to swipe again...Creed jumps on him before this can happen and proceeds to make himself some gator boots. The whole process takes 2 minutes...most of that time is spent actually skinning the Lizard.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by King Castle
it hasnt always bn so
Actually it was stated by the impartial narrative that even Pre-Turbo Creed was faster than Logan
King Castle
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Actually it was stated by the impartial narrative that even Pre-Turbo Creed was faster than Logan
wahtever who was pawning who regularly pre turbo upgrade?
Sabe was a joke back then, only reason he stood a chance is b/c logan would go all savage style with him rather then just out right pawn him using skills.
and guess what he beat sabe reguarly.
The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by King Castle
its bn repeatedly stated on panels by writer narration, admitted by characters like wolverine, sabretooth, kitty pride and other X-men.
it hasnt always bn so but after Sabes repeated upgrades to always be better then wolverine, Sabretooth is legitimately above him now, enough that he flaunts it to logan every chance he gets.
check the respect threads for scans.
Basically what happens...Wolverine finally beats Sabretooth by a hair or two (or in one case knocks him off a cliff), Sabretooth receives subsequent upgrades via Weapon-X or Apocalypse or something. He's always one step ahead of Wolverine. The thing is, Wolverine never gets upgraded in the same way - he just becomes a better and more experienced fighter overtime. The only reason he's even able to keep up with Creed is due to sheer determination and slightly better h2h.
King Castle
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Basically what happens...Wolverine finally beats Sabretooth by a hair or two (or in one case knocks him off a cliff), Sabretooth receives subsequent upgrades via Weapon-X or Apocalypse or something. He's always one step ahead of Wolverine. The thing is, Wolverine never gets upgraded in the same way - he just becomes a better and more experienced fighter overtime. The only reason he's even able to keep up with Creed is due to sheer determination and slightly better h2h. bro, preaching to the wrong person. i know the entire history of the two. i am an old dog have comics of both them..
753
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
This is EXACTLY what I mean by readers intentionally misrepresenting facts. Actually, this is more of an out-right lie. Snoops claim that Logan needed help to fight the Wendigo is more of a misinterpretation.
Anyway, Logan was stomped by Creed during Rucka's run. Sabes had lost his adamantium at that point. Also, it took everything Logan had just to keep up with Creed the last time they fought in the Loeb run...the one where Logan decapitates Creed with the Marumasa. So, in no way shape or form does what you have stated here bear any truth.
LULZ read the ****ing comics. Sabertooth was humiliated by wolverine throughout his career dozens of times, including the time they both fought without adamantium over the post of Horseman of Death before apocalypse and ST lost as usual.
The Weapon X amp was completely ignored after that storyline, they never even mentioned it again. ST was never protrayed as a clear superior to Wolverine in combat in that fashion again. Stories repeatedly state their fights just go on forever as they slash each other to no end. It took everything logan had? He felt sorry for ST as he cut his head off in a clean swipe, commenting on how there was nothing left of ST by that point.
ST may have better stats, but he's never been clearly superior to wolverine in actual combat - the outcome of their fights shows this as he spent most of his carreer having his ass handed to him by logan.
753
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Basically what happens...Wolverine finally beats Sabretooth by a hair or two (or in one case knocks him off a cliff), Sabretooth receives subsequent upgrades via Weapon-X or Apocalypse or something. He's always one step ahead of Wolverine. The thing is, Wolverine never gets upgraded in the same way - he just becomes a better and more experienced fighter overtime. The only reason he's even able to keep up with Creed is due to sheer determination and slightly better h2h. The fact that ST needs upgrades at all shows how he's not cleraly better than wolverine. And he keeps losing to him.
King Castle
the win regard that logan once held on sabe has changed drastically, bub.
being able to beat a character a minority of times against overall repeated battles doesnt make logan superior. the stories usually depict logan as the underdog against sabe.
and logan slicing Sabe's head off once Sabe went Feral with a magic sword doesnt show any superiority that logan may have over Sabe. might as well show logan Mind wiped into a gibbering monkey boy and get his @$$ handed to him by captain america and claim it as a consistent portrayal of logan fighting skill.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by King Castle
wahtever who was pawning who regularly pre turbo upgrade?
Sabe was a joke back then, only reason he stood a chance is b/c logan would go all savage style with him rather then just out right pawn him using skills.
and guess what he beat sabe reguarly.
No. The reason why he "stood a chance" was his speed. And no, he wasn't a joke, far from it. He had some low showings, sure, but that's because the character was still in development.
Birthday. Ass. Whoopings.
753
Originally posted by King Castle
the win regard that logan once held on sabe has changed drastically, bub.
being able to beat a character a minority of times against overall repeated battles doesnt make logan superior. the stories usually depict logan as the underdog against sabe.
and logan slicing Sabe's head off once Sabe went Feral with a magic sword doesnt show any superiority that logan may have over Sabe. might as well show logan Mind wiped into a gibbering monkey boy and get his @$$ handed to him by captain america and claim it as a consistent portrayal of logan fighting skill. I do believe Logan's win/loss rate to ST still puts him above. He's sometimes shown as the underdog cause ST is usually in the attacking end, seeking him out and heroes often lose the first round just to get back up and win the second one. It adds drama to the story.
King Castle
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No. The reason why he "stood a chance" was his speed. And no, he wasn't a joke, far from it. He had some low showings, sure, but that's because the character was still in development.
Birthday. Ass. Whoopings.
pfff... amnesiatic logan with no sense of himself or fully trained or skilled..
80's - late 90's Logan was handing him his @$$ regularly in just about every confrontation.
even with the current Sabe logan was still pulling the underdog win.
writers had to pat sabes' win record with retro written wins with retcons and explored past history.
without them logan would still have the most wins on column durverine
now you best stop flappin them gums and pawn the key board, less some one stops them for ya and break them fingers, bub.logan
Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by 753
I do believe Logan's win/loss rate to ST still puts him above. He's sometimes shown as the underdog cause ST is usually in the attacking end, seeking him out and heroes often lose the first round just to get back up and win the second one. It adds drama to the story.
no you are very wrong, sabre-tooth has the clear majority of wins between the two by quite a bit.
The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by 753
The fact that ST needs upgrades at all shows how he's not cleraly better than wolverine. And he keeps losing to him.
You might want to read the Sabretooth respect thread. In the Wolverine comics, Sabes has the easy majority of victories. Wolverine has soundly beaten Creed like....maybe twice including his victory to become the Angel of Death. The point is - every time Logan manages a clear victory - Creed gets more upgrades. In the Wolverine series - he has yet to beat Creed since the late 90's. I mean, we are talking when WOLVERINE got his adamantium back. We are talking 300 K being FAST download speed okay....Sabes has had Logan's number ever since. At least in his own series...
If you wish to provide evidence from another comic to the contrary, feel free.
The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by 753
LULZ read the ****ing comics. Sabertooth was humiliated by wolverine throughout his career dozens of times, including the time they both fought without adamantium over the post of Horseman of Death before apocalypse and ST lost as usual.
The Weapon X amp was completely ignored after that storyline, they never even mentioned it again. ST was never protrayed as a clear superior to Wolverine in combat in that fashion again. Stories repeatedly state their fights just go on forever as they slash each other to no end. It took everything logan had? He felt sorry for ST as he cut his head off in a clean swipe, commenting on how there was nothing left of ST by that point.
ST may have better stats, but he's never been clearly superior to wolverine in actual combat - the outcome of their fights shows this as he spent most of his carreer having his ass handed to him by logan.
And as you yourself stated....the last time Creed was "humiliated" by Wolverine, it was still the ****ing 90's. in the 80's, Creed was always portrayed by Claremont as being slightly superior than Logan - it took Wolverine everything he had just to barely win a long battle. Whereas Creed's victories have been STOMPS. He has stomped Logan into the ground....lost a close battle, got upgraded and then stomped Logan again - and he has yet to lose since his last upgrade by Weapon X - which not only gave him adamantium but gave him superior street and strength by Logan's own admission. In fact, he should be even faster now considering that adamantium would slow him down - he should still have the speed and strength upgrade from Weapon-x. It would certainly appear that way given how easily he kicked the shit out of Logan during Rucka's run. He also looked superior in their most recent fight...the one the lasted five issues. By the time Logan got their with his stupid magical sword, Creed had been already reduced to a shadow of his former self. The whole execution of Creed in this manner was a sad joke on the part of the writer - one that didn't even know the history of either character - I mean he didn't even know that the whole cabin incident was just a memory implant by Weapon X. Epic ****ing fail on his part.
SamZED
Current Lizard has Connors mind which apparently makes him less of a threat, he struggled with Scorpion (who tbf was also upgraded several times over). Still this form of Lizard has great HF, is insanely fast and agile to the point it was running circles around Spider-man (CIS influenced but still). Vermin is a meh addition to the team, hasn't done anything impressive in years. Spider-man beats him off-pannel these days.
carver9
Didn't Spiderman admit Lizard was faster than him in their latest fight?
SamZED
Maybe he did, tbh don't remember him outright saying that. But it looked like it anyway. To be fair to Pete he was trying to protect people and fight at the same time, plus there was the moral conflict, there was a risk of killing Lizard with that cure. Still, Lizard seemed faster than him in that fight.
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