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Thread may be a bit pre-mature, so I reserve the right to change it as Chaos War continues, and as Thanos Imperative winds down.

Galactus Foes vs. Celestials and Gods

Galactus Foes:

Tenebrous
Aegis
Full Power Tyrant
In-Betweener
Hyperstorm
The Galactus Engine

vs.

Celestials and Gods:

Destroyer Armor with Odin and all of Asgard animating
Amatsu-Mikaboshi
The 4th Celestial Host
Tiamut the Dreamer
Exitar the Exterminator


watcher observes the conflict. what does he see

I think u know my answer

Originally posted by guy222
I think u know my answer



the watcher does not know your answer

he just watches

It's too lopsided you put too much characters in the "Celestials and Gods" list.

Team 2 wins with ease. The hardest to take down in team 1 would be FP Tyrant and In-betweener, Hyperstorm and the Galactus canon are non issues. Destroyer w/Odin and Mikaboshi die first and horribly though

Originally posted by zopzop
It's too lopsided you put too much characters in the "Celestials and Gods" list.

Team 2 wins with ease. The hardest to take down in team 1 would be FP Tyrant and In-betweener, Hyperstorm and the Galactus canon are non issues. Destroyer w/Odin and Mikaboshi die first and horribly though



Did you read TI #5? The Galactus Engine was taking on 6 Celestials with ease, and killed Aegis in issue #3.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
Thread may be a bit pre-mature, so I reserve the right to change it as Chaos War continues, and as Thanos Imperative winds down.

Galactus Foes vs. Celestials and Gods

Galactus Foes:

Tenebrous
Aegis
Full Power Tyrant
In-Betweener
Hyperstorm
The Galactus Engine

vs.

Celestials and Gods:

Destroyer Armor with Odin and all of Asgard animating
Amatsu-Mikaboshi
The 4th Celestial Host
Tiamut the Dreamer
Exitar the Exterminator


watcher observes the conflict. what does he see

Originally posted by Black bolt z


Originally posted by Power Cosmic II


Did you read TI #5? The Galactus Engine was taking on 6 Celestials with ease, and killed Aegis in issue #3.

There's also a reasonable case being made for In-Betweener being able to summon the Horde, explained by Tiamut as being the "opposites" of the Celestials.

As well as the issue of Hyperstorm manipulating hyperspace.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
Tiamat,exitar,and the fourth hot are much stronger then celestials.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Tiamat,exitar,and the fourth hot are much stronger then celestials.

Does not grant them the automatic victory, as you assume. If the Galactus Engine was struggling against them, then I'd agree. It was quite the opposite in fact.

IMHO, Tiamut is the most powerful Celestial. He is by far the greatest one as well

Sings a song turns back time nearly 14 billion years, put the entire Earth to sleep. Took on over a trillion horde

Not gonna go into = Fulcrum. Its how anyone interprets the issue. If u follow Kirby's legacy....then the answer is easy for a Celestials fan like Guy222



The only problem for Hyperstorm is he should've been a badass

My answer is Celestials/Amatsu win

Lil caution for Mikaboshi....I hope he has some nice feats....he will lose in the end(Chaos War)

Originally posted by guy222
IMHO, Tiamut is the most powerful Celestial. He is by far the greatest one as well

Took on over 1 trillion Horde

Not gonna go into = Fulcrum. Its how anyone interprets the issue. If u follow Kirby's legacy....then the answer is easy for a Celestials fan like Guy222



The only problem for Hyperstorm is he should've been a badass

that's why I put IB in there

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Tiamat,exitar,and the fourth hot are much stronger then celestials.

Exitar>4th Celestial Host

Tiamut>>>Exitar

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
that's why I put IB in there

I know

Originally posted by guy222
I know

I'm pleased that you are astute enough for the thread

Originally posted by guy222
Exitar>4th Celestial Host

Tiamut>>>Exitar Sorry I mean that they are.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II


Did you read TI #5? The Galactus Engine was taking on 6 Celestials with ease, and killed Aegis in issue #3.

Doh! Sorry PC II, I misread that as the Galactus "cannon" from Annihilation.

I'll look into the Galactus Engine. But Hyperstorm is the weak link, VERY weak link, in team 1.

Plus I don't see Tenebrerous and Aegis as a match for the Celestials. The In-betweener and FP are the powerhouses of Team 1 but they'd eventually be overwhelmed by Team 2.

i have no idea how powerful the Galactus engine is..so i'm just gonna ignore it and say team 2 stomp..

So, this Galactus Engine is a Galactus foe?

Sounds like he's pretty uber if he can take out 6 Celestials at a time.

Though I doubt he can do much against Tiamut.


Team 2 takes a solid victory.
Mainly due to Tiamut.

exitar is not to far from timaut either

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
So, this Galactus Engine is a Galactus foe?

Sounds like he's pretty uber if he can take out 6 Celestials at a time.


the Galactus engine is a Galactus from the Cancerverse..seems like he has been twisted by the many angle one and turn into a weapon..it didn't take out 6 Celestial..it hasn't done anything impressive yet..but i haven't read the latest Thanos Imperative..so maybe he take out 6 Celestial it the latest issue..so i could be mistaken..

Originally posted by zopzop

I'll look into the Galactus Engine. But Hyperstorm is the weak link, VERY weak link, in team 1.

Plus I don't see Tenebrerous and Aegis as a match for the Celestials. The In-betweener and FP are the powerhouses of Team 1 but they'd eventually be overwhelmed by Team 2.

Well, don't forget that Hyperstorm has mastery over hyperspace. The Celestials are purportedly made of hyperspace. Forgetting the sue storm debacle against exitar, he at least has hyperspace inside his armor. I don't think you can dismiss hyperstorm so easily, esp if he's hiding behind the galactus engine.

I-B can also use his powers to summon "The Horde" that fought Tiamut in Eternals mini

Gah think outside the box for once guys

Originally posted by Utrigita
Gah think outside the box for once guys

You want us to go to tacobell and gets some tacos?

IB may actually be able to solo team 2 as ridiculous as it sounds he can summon those guys opposites to fight them

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
IB may actually be able to solo team 2 as ridiculous as it sounds he can summon those guys opposites to fight them

Hey I learned to stop laughing and started respecting the IB when I saw him order Death around like she was his dog.

Did you see his Official Handbook info Colossus? It says he's IMMUNE to the effects of the Infinity Gems!

Originally posted by zopzop


Did you see his Official Handbook info Colossus? It says he's IMMUNE to the effects of the Infinity Gems! really? what handbook?

Originally posted by rotiart
You want us to go to tacobell and gets some tacos?

sounds as a plan.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
IB may actually be able to solo team 2 as ridiculous as it sounds he can summon those guys opposites to fight them

but who is mika's opposite. if mika turns out to be a beast in chaos war, then all i-b would do is summon ameratsu or whatever his name is. and that dude is as impressive as a flat chested stripper

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
really? what handbook?

Official Handbook Update 1 2007. Here's the scan :
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7517/allnewofficialhandbooko.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Man I'm starting to think the IB may be able to solo everyone mentioned.

Originally posted by zopzop
Official Handbook Update 1 2007. Here's the scan :
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7517/allnewofficialhandbooko.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Man I'm starting to think the IB may be able to solo everyone mentioned.

I'm afraid that it is nothing extremely special, Warlock mentioned that Galactus like Eternity was above the powers of the soul gems (or something like that) however as I see it there is a enormous difference between being Immune to the Infinity Gems and then being Immune to the Infinity Gauntlet.

Now as for the battle itself, the Galactus Chaos Engine, coupled with In Betweener, FP Tyrant, Tenebrous and Aegis, should atleast be capable of holding back the Celestial onslaught for a extended amount of time, the turning point isn't if they can hold, which in the long run they can't, but rather if Hyperstorms control of Hyperspace and the summoning of the Horde will prove sufficiant to overwhelm the Celestials. I'm fairly sure that Hyperstorm could duplicate the effect on Exitar that Sue did, but I must also admit that it was a feat only executeble because of Exitar entirely ignoring Sue, the question would then be if Hyperstorm is capable of manipulating the energies used against him from the Celestials, that I personally doubt very much. All in All I have no idea who wins. Ruling out Mikaboshi (because he is a unknown factor) and not really factoring in Odin in the destroyer armor because I think he will get destroyed in seconds.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I'm afraid that it is nothing extremely special, Warlock mentioned that Galactus like Eternity was above the powers of the soul gems

Where was this stated? I remember Galactus being owned by the Soul Gems when the Elders used them as a cannon and drained Galactus of energy. He was about to die, till the Surfer saved him.And this was before they discovered the true power of the gems.

How can Eternity be immune to the gems? Thanos owned him with them.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
but who is mika's opposite. if mika turns out to be a beast in chaos war, then all i-b would do is summon ameratsu or whatever his name is. and that dude is as impressive as a flat chested stripper the opposite of mika would most likely be eternity

Originally posted by zopzop
Where was this stated? I remember Galactus being owned by the Soul Gems when the Elders used them as a cannon and drained Galactus of energy. He was about to die, till the Surfer saved him.And this was before they discovered the true power of the gems.

How can Eternity be immune to the gems? Thanos owned him with them.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
Thanos discusses how, when he had the Heart of the Infinite, he could have dispatched Galactus with ease. But without the Heart, Thanos explains that his personal power is "Lilliputian" compared to Galactus' might

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3394/thanos0222rd4.th.jpg

More interesting however is Thanos asking Adam Warlock if he can use the Soul Gem against Galactus. Warlock says he can't, because he senses

"no soul within yonder vessel. Galactus most likely has a spirit similar to Eternity's and Infinity's. Beyond the Gem's power.

So there you have it...Galactus is immune to the Infinity Gem that governs the Soul.

Therefore, we can say that in the Infinity Gauntlet affair, Eternity/Infinity and Galactus were technically dispatched by 5 of the 6 gems, as they, by their natures, rendered the soul gem useless. Guess it's more of a feat for the IG, but still interesting nonetheless.

@Power Cosmic II

That's only the Soul Gem though. I believe it's failed before against beings with "no soul". The Hanbook says the IB is immune to the effects of the Infinity Gems (plural). Not merely the Soul Gem, but all of them : Power, Mind, Reality, Space, Time.

Actually the more I read about the IB the more I feel he's probably second only to the LT in power/authority.

Order/Chaos created some uber being with a "kill switch" they can use if he gets out of hand.

no he is not second under LT, he just is very effecting at using your opposite to win

Originally posted by zopzop
Where was this stated? I remember Galactus being owned by the Soul Gems when the Elders used them as a cannon and drained Galactus of energy. He was about to die, till the Surfer saved him.And this was before they discovered the true power of the gems.

How can Eternity be immune to the gems? Thanos owned him with them.

Things change in marvel, what works in the 1970-80 might not work the same way in the 2000. And it was in the Thanos series which included Hunger. Don't recall the exact issue.

Hence why I said there is a difference between the Infinity Gems and the Infinity Gauntlet.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Things change in marvel, what works in the 1970-80 might not work the same way in the 2000. And it was in the Thanos series which included Hunger. Don't recall the exact issue.

They were using the gems to drain his power from him.



So he's immune to the Soul Gem? There have been others with "no soul" that were immune to it too. The IB is immune to ALL of them.

Celestials/Amatsu-Mikaboshi FTW

Originally posted by zopzop
They were using the gems to drain his power from him.



So he's immune to the Soul Gem? There have been others with "no soul" that were immune to it too. The IB is immune to ALL of them.

I'm aware of that, however as I said what happened in the 1980's isn't always telling for how the character will react against said Artifact today, for instance today the Soul Gem isn't useable on Galactus and the Time Gem won't work either, so a difference have emerged, the superman from the 80's isn't the same Superman as today. Things change. Also the Gems worked on Galactus because they could channel the energy from him into 6 planets, so the Gems had to use a storage place for the energy they drained from him in order to function against him, it's plausible that today the same result wouldn't have been a reality, especially seen how easily Galactus collected the Infinity Gems in the Hunger, some most likely from bears without problems.

And the IB have what on panel feats to support that he is immune to All of them combined in into the Infinity Gauntlet as more or less have been claiming.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I'm aware of that, however as I said what happened in the 1980's isn't always telling for how the character will react against said Artifact today, for instance today the Soul Gem isn't useable on Galactus and the Time Gem won't work either, so a difference have emerged, the superman from the 80's isn't the same Superman as today. Things change. Also the Gems worked on Galactus because they could channel the energy from him into 6 planets, so the Gems had to use a storage place for the energy they drained from him in order to function against him, it's plausible that today the same result wouldn't have been a reality, especially seen how easily Galactus collected the Infinity Gems in the Hunger, some most likely from bears without problems.

Did we even see on panel how he got a hold of those gems? The Infinity Watch were morons with how they used them. We saw Moondragon use TK with her Mind Gem ONCE, then never again.



The IB is nothing like Galactus. He's literally the synthesis of all dualities. He has feats even his creators haven't matched (like when he ordered Death around).

I-B had a neat battle with Galactus

IB didnt order Dearh around as such ,he summoned her and due to the law of the universe/abstracts- chaos and order-life/death she had to do what she was told.

Originally posted by Nihilist
IB didnt order Dearh around as such ,he summoned her and due to the law of the universe/abstracts- chaos and order-life/death she had to do what she was told.

Originally posted by zopzop
Did we even see on panel how he got a hold of those gems? The Infinity Watch were morons with how they used them. We saw Moondragon use TK with her Mind Gem ONCE, then never again.



The IB is nothing like Galactus. He's literally the synthesis of all dualities. He has feats even his creators haven't matched (like when he ordered Death around).

We saw that his punishers overwhelmed Warlock with the Soul Gem, we also saw him making a star go nova in order to obtain another Infinity gem, so that is two accounted for, I highly doubt he asked nicely when he was in search of the remaining four. We also know that the incident with the Elders was a feat that was accomplished by the Star and the Six Planets because when Nova made the Sun go nova the link that was draining Galactus was broken.

Yet IB have said that he is Galactus opposite given what Galactus represent in his universe. And as Nihilist said the feat IB accomplished was accomplished because of his status, a status that didn't mean anything to Master Order and Lord Chaos when they imprisoned him for disobedience, without him having the strength to free himself.

Originally posted by Utrigita
We saw that his punishers overwhelmed Warlock with the Soul Gem, we also saw him making a star go nova in order to obtain another Infinity gem, so that is two accounted for, I highly doubt he asked nicely when he was in search of the remaining four. We also know that the incident with the Elders was a feat that was accomplished by the Star and the Six Planets because when Nova made the Sun go nova the link that was draining Galactus was broken.

Excellent and proves my point. He sent souless robots vs the Soul Gem. But we don't know much about the rest. Like I said before, we've seen Gem users not use the Gems to their full potential, the Moondragon example I gave is just one instance. Then we see competent users like Thanos use the Reality Gem (and the Reality Gem alone) to resurrect Captain Mar'vell and have a discussion/battle with him for giggles. WIth the IB it don't matter how competent the Infinity Gem users are, they don't work on him.



Yes he's his opposite in this universe but it doesn't mean anything more than that. He's not the synthesis of dualities like the IB is. The IB has attributes and powers even his masters don't. The fact that they can create a being like this speaks volumes about them.

He's one of two beings that seems immune to the Infinity Gems, Anomaly being the other.

He's so far above Galactus it's not even funny.

Originally posted by zopzop
He's so far above Galactus it's not even funny.
Is that why a hungry Galactus who just came out of a 'coma' stalemated him?

http://s1d5.turboimagehost.com/t/4529237_ti-09-10.jpg

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
So, this Galactus Engine is a Galactus foe?

Sounds like he's pretty uber if he can take out 6 Celestials at a time.

Though I doubt he can do much against Tiamut.


Team 2 takes a solid victory.
Mainly due to Tiamut.

Correct me if iam wrong but the celestial they took out were not from 616 correct???

Originally posted by zopzop
Which was nothing to do with him being above her in power, it was down to universal abstract law, because in a fight she would destroy him.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Correct me if iam wrong but the celestial they took out were not from 616 correct???

if u are talking about Thanos Imperetive..none of the Celestial were taken out..they are just having a hard time with the galactus engine..

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
the opposite of mika would most likely be eternity opposite of eternity is death....this is blantantly obvious.And celestials still win.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
opposite of eternity is death....this is blantantly obvious.And celestials still win. oblivion is also eternitys opposite

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
oblivion is also eternitys opposite No he isn't.Oblivion is infinitys opposite.

Originally posted by zopzop
Excellent and proves my point. He sent souless robots vs the Soul Gem. But we don't know much about the rest. Like I said before, we've seen Gem users not use the Gems to their full potential, the Moondragon example I gave is just one instance. Then we see competent users like Thanos use the Reality Gem (and the Reality Gem alone) to resurrect Captain Mar'vell and have a discussion/battle with him for giggles. WIth the IB it don't matter how competent the Infinity Gem users are, they don't work on him.



Yes he's his opposite in this universe but it doesn't mean anything more than that. He's not the synthesis of dualities like the IB is. The IB has attributes and powers even his masters don't. The fact that they can create a being like this speaks volumes about them.

He's one of two beings that seems immune to the Infinity Gems, Anomaly being the other.

He's so far above Galactus it's not even funny.

Just like Galactus operates at a level above the Soul gems power. We know that Galactus collected all of them, one way or the other, while there is a obvious counter to the soul gem, there isn't a obvious counter to the power, space, time, mind gems, but Galactus got a hold on all of those anyways, and as mentioned previous the Time Gem won't work on Galactus, the mind Gem won't either, space not either, power will because that pretty much works on all, the difference is that where Galactus actually have the shown power to ignore the power the relevant gem posesses the IB doesn't, because he can't summon the Gems opposite. And again Galactus have actually shown to resist the gems power when they where working by themselves, something IB can't claim, to my knowledge, to have.

And the fact that they are operating beneath Eternity should make it very clear that the Inbetweener can't hope to stand against the combined might of the Infinity Gems, when they are collected into the Infinity Gauntlet.

I accept that he is immune according to the handbook but have he ever on panel showed this mentioned resistance?

Far above Galactus in what regards? Powerlevel, no. Status? No. Importance? Hell no. so in what regards is he above Galactus?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Is that why a hungry Galactus who just came out of a 'coma' stalemated him?

Exactly! IB can't go into "a coma" and he doesn't weaken from "hunger". He was stalemating Galactus in his own realm of power and was on his way to completely owning him till Surfer/Nova/The Elders of the Universe stepped in.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Which was nothing to do with him being above her in power, it was down to universal abstract law, because in a fight she would destroy him.

How would she "destroy" him? His Handbook describes him as "everywhere and nowhere" "walking between the concepts of life/death, god/man, good/evil, and many more."

Death ain't doing jack to him.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Just like Galactus operates at a level above the Soul gems power. We know that Galactus collected all of them, one way or the other, while there is a obvious counter to the soul gem, there isn't a obvious counter to the power, space, time, mind gems, but Galactus got a hold on all of those anyways, and as mentioned previous the Time Gem won't work on Galactus, the mind Gem won't either, space not either, power will because that pretty much works on all, the difference is that where Galactus actually have the shown power to ignore the power the relevant gem posesses the IB doesn't, because he can't summon the Gems opposite. And again Galactus have actually shown to resist the gems power when they where working by themselves, something IB can't claim, to my knowledge, to have.

I've already pointed out to you there's a difference between competent and noob users of the Gems. I gave two examples too : Thanos and Moondragon. So if we don't know how he collected them we can't say what resistance he showed to their powers (we don't know if the Gem users were competent).

Also where was it claimed that the Time and Mind Gems won't work on Galactus?



Why can't he? Because Eternity can't? How many times has Eternity been owned by beings "far beneath" him? Nightmare is the first that comes to mind. A being like the IB is > Nightmare or Dormammu.

The Handbook says he's immune to the effects of the Gems and I'll stick with what Marvel says. Unless you can provide scans to the contrary, I'm not under any obligation to search anything out.

The IB was stalemating Galactus in Galactus' universe then was about to go on to own him until Surfer/Nova/The Elders stepped in. The IB doesn't get weaker because he "hungers" and he can't die from lack of nourishment. The IB is an abstract. Maelstrom even mocked Galactus that while he needed to feed, he wasn't Hunger itself (ie he wasn't an abstract being like Maelstrom and hence beneath him).

Originally posted by zopzop
I've already pointed out to you there's a difference between competent and noob users of the Gems. I gave two examples too : Thanos and Moondragon. So if we don't know how he collected them we can't say what resistance he showed to their powers (we don't know if the Gem users were competent).

Also where was it claimed that the Time and Mind Gems won't work on Galactus?



Why can't he? Because Eternity can't? How many times has Eternity been owned by beings "far beneath" him? Nightmare is the first that comes to mind. A being like the IB is > Nightmare or Dormammu.

The Handbook says he's immune to the effects of the Gems and I'll stick with what Marvel says. Unless you can provide scans to the contrary, I'm not under any obligation to search anything out.

The IB was stalemating Galactus in Galactus' universe then was about to go on to own him until Surfer/Nova/The Elders stepped in. The IB doesn't get weaker because he "hungers" and he can't die from lack of nourishment. The IB is an abstract. Maelstrom even mocked Galactus that while he needed to feed, he wasn't Hunger itself (ie he wasn't an abstract being like Maelstrom and hence beneath him).

So they have to be Thanos level intellect in order for you to believe that the user wielding the gem is competent? While the user being competent is certainly a aspect of the gems potential, it means nothing if the character in question like Galactus for instance, have shown resistance to 1 of the gems, been beyond the power of the second, strongly hinted to ignore the third, and last but not least was only drained from the power of the Infinity Gems when they was acting like a conduit else their power over him was nonexistant.

Galactus represent his own beginning and end, (him merging with the previous Eternity and all that) so unless the time gem can stop the time within a universe without assistance from the powergem well... and the Mind Gem didn't work wonders for Thanos when he had Moondragon use it with him to try and force knowledge from Galactus.

Because the beings that created him Master Order and Lord Chaos combined with the rest of the Abstracts at that point of time, stood no chance against Thanos with the IG, or anyone else with it for that matter, now unless you have something that presents IB as above, Hate, Love, Stranger, Eon, Galactus, Eternity, 2 Celestials, Master Order, Lord Chaos, Cronos, Mephisto and Death this debate isn't worth continuing, because then you have nothing to back up your claim exact a handbook that mentions the Infinity Gems not the Infinity Gauntlet and those two things can hardly be considered the same. I know that the IB is powerful, but what makes him powerful is his ability to summon the opposite of his opponent, but when that isn't a possibility his powerlevel isn't above that of Galactus imo.

Your making a claim based on a handbook alone, I'm asking you if that is the only evidence you have for the claim you presented, and you answered that question, however your entire notation that IB is subject to only LT in Status and Power is obviously wrong, if that was the case, Master Order and Lord Chaos, who both are far beneath LT, won't have been capable of brushing IB aside like they did.

If IB was as you claim stalemating Galactus in the physical realm, why was there a need for IB to draw Galactus into a focus point inbetween where IB was at his strongest, unless IB, who you hold in high regard, is complete unaware of what is a regular knowledge in the universe, which is that Galactus deplets his energy, then there was no logical reason for IB to act as he did, if it wasn't for him being about to lose. It's a misunderstanding not to think Galactus a abstract and neither is it complete right either, Galactus is as we know a fusion between a Abstract and a Human and have thus created something inbetween, a semi abstract, that based on how each race that looks at him obtains a different picture of Galactus Galactus form can best be considered a form of M-body.

Originally posted by zopzop
How would she "destroy" him? His Handbook describes him as "everywhere and nowhere" "walking between the concepts of life/death, god/man, good/evil, and many more."

Death ain't doing jack to him. lol, everthing dies except TOAA and LT(to a extent).

Handbook dont mean shit , in the nexus he was powerless and easily physically hurt.

Originally posted by Nihilist
lol, everthing dies except TOAA and LT(to a extent).

And with strange eons, even death may die?

But in all seriuosness Beyonder killed Death and he's half a cosmic cube. Before you say that was the Pre Retcon Beyonder, this feat was confirmed in Death's bio.



The nexus was the one point where everything was perfectly in balance and hence why the IB's powers didn't work.

Originally posted by zopzop
And with strange eons, even death may die?

But in all seriuosness Beyonder killed Death and he's half a cosmic cube. Before you say that was the Pre Retcon Beyonder, this feat was confirmed in Death's bio.



The nexus was the one point where everything was perfectly in balance and hence why the IB's powers didn't work. But it was still pre retcon beyonder at the time of killing death and he was was uber powerfull though, plus bio arent a great source as stuff gets messed up all the time.
And everything the Beyonder did the abstracts just played along to help him fit in.

Proving under the right circumstances he can die/be hurt.

Originally posted by Utrigita
So they have to be Thanos level intellect in order for you to believe that the user wielding the gem is competent? While the user being competent is certainly a aspect of the gems potential, it means nothing if the character in question like Galactus for instance, have shown resistance to 1 of the gems, been beyond the power of the second, strongly hinted to ignore the third, and last but not least was only drained from the power of the Infinity Gems when they was acting like a conduit else their power over him was nonexistant.

Galactus represent his own beginning and end, (him merging with the previous Eternity and all that) so unless the time gem can stop the time within a universe without assistance from the powergem well... and the Mind Gem didn't work wonders for Thanos when he had Moondragon use it with him to try and force knowledge from Galactus.

Moondragon is NOT a competent user of the Mind Gem. We've seen her use her TK once and Adam mentioned that the Mind Gem gives her that power and more. Yet we've never seen her use more than basic TP with the Mind Gem. It's not the Gem's fault Moondragon is a moron.

Being immune to the Soul Gem's soul suck isn't much of a feat. Like you said, the Punisher robots were immune to it also. Now where are you getting this immunity to the other Gems from for Galactus? What issue was it mentioned in?



Order and Chaos made him. They were obviously smart enough to make him completely under control of their power, lest he go crazy. He's been shown ordering a higher level abstract around like a dog. A feat even his makers haven't been shown doing. We have the handbook saying he's immune to the Infinity Gems. How many other characters can say that (aside from Anomaly)?

And how do you explain Anomaly? With it's power Maelstrom withstood an IG blast from Thanos and was operating beyond Thanos' cosmic awareness (he wasn't even aware that Maelstrom was inside the crater caused by his blast mocking him to his face).

Is Eternity/Infinity/Oblivion/Prime Celestial Host/Order/Chaos above Anomaly? If yes, then the IB being immune to the Infinity Gems isn't a stretch especially if it's specifically mentioned in his official bio.



The IB didn't draw Galactus anywhere, in the course of their battle they drifted near a black hole and were caught in it's pull. The IB states if you fight the pull you lessen your ability to fight me, if you don't fight the pull we're drawn into my realm where I am all powerful. Either way Galactus was screwed.

And no Galactus is nowhere near an abstract. DP Tyrant made him bleed. We've seen that he has a skeletal structure, like any purely physical being. How many times have we seen a skeletal head of Galactus floating around? During the Annihilation arc, a starving Galactus was "pale" and his lips were dry/parched.

Originally posted by Nihilist But it was still pre retcon beyonder at the time of killing death and he was was uber powerfull though, plus bio arent a great source as stuff gets messed up all the time.
And everything the Beyonder did the abstracts just played along to help him fit in.

Proving under the right circumstances he can die/be hurt.

But Death being killed by Beyonder (pre retcon or not) is official. Otherwise why would it be in her bio (just like the Protege owning the LT). It wasn't stated that it was an illusion or a misunderstanding (like his other feats).

According to official Marvel storyline, Beyonder killed Death.

Originally posted by zopzop
Exactly! IB can't go into "a coma" and he doesn't weaken from "hunger". He was stalemating Galactus in his own realm of power and was on his way to completely owning him till Surfer/Nova/The Elders of the Universe stepped in. Does this make sense to you?

IB is above Galactus because Galactus gets weakened, but still manages to stalemate IB?

Yes Sr J-Bieb, it makes perfect sense.

The IB was out of his element, the Magic Universe, and challenging Galactus in his own back yard (he even says this to him while they are fighting). Even before they got sucked into the black hole's pull, the IB was stalemating Galactus and seemed to be getting the upper hand (which is what caused the Elders to get involved in the first place, they feared that if the IB won, then he'd summon Death again and kill them like he killed their brothers).

Originally posted by zopzop
Moondragon is NOT a competent user of the Mind Gem. We've seen her use her TK once and Adam mentioned that the Mind Gem gives her that power and more. Yet we've never seen her use more than basic TP with the Mind Gem. It's not the Gem's fault Moondragon is a moron.

Being immune to the Soul Gem's soul suck isn't much of a feat. Like you said, the Punisher robots were immune to it also. Now where are you getting this immunity to the other Gems from for Galactus? What issue was it mentioned in?



Order and Chaos made him. They were obviously smart enough to make him completely under control of their power, lest he go crazy. He's been shown ordering a higher level abstract around like a dog. A feat even his makers haven't been shown doing. We have the handbook saying he's immune to the Infinity Gems. How many other characters can say that (aside from Anomaly)?

And how do you explain Anomaly? With it's power Maelstrom withstood an IG blast from Thanos and was operating beyond Thanos' cosmic awareness (he wasn't even aware that Maelstrom was inside the crater caused by his blast mocking him to his face).

Is Eternity/Infinity/Oblivion/Prime Celestial Host/Order/Chaos above Anomaly? If yes, then the IB being immune to the Infinity Gems isn't a stretch especially if it's specifically mentioned in his official bio.



The IB didn't draw Galactus anywhere, in the course of their battle they drifted near a black hole and were caught in it's pull. The IB states if you fight the pull you lessen your ability to fight me, if you don't fight the pull we're drawn into my realm where I am all powerful. Either way Galactus was screwed.

And no Galactus is nowhere near an abstract. DP Tyrant made him bleed. We've seen that he has a skeletal structure, like any purely physical being. How many times have we seen a skeletal head of Galactus floating around? During the Annihilation arc, a starving Galactus was "pale" and his lips were dry/parched.

Yet she still have a good grasp at how the gem is going to be used, coupled with Adam Warlock using the Infinity Gauntlet to restrict her access to the gem probably didn't help her either. We also have another incident most notably Odin vs Thanos where Thanos told the Infinity Watch to pull back, if the watch with the Gems could easily have taken out Odin why didn't he bring them along, Adam was one of them and he can hardly be called a incompetent user of the gems.

The majority that I place the Gems not working against Galactus on is that when the elders (the incident you brought up yourself) used it against Galactus they required, 6 planets to focus the energy from Galactus into and the Sun as a source to empower the gems or whatever, fact however concerning the incident is that when the Sun went Nova the gems no longer by themselves held any power over Galactus.

It doesn't in any way change the fact that IB hide from his masters knowing he would be punished, if he was half powerful as you make him out to be he had no reason to fear his masters, which is the bottomline. As Nihilist have already pointed out, him ordering death about is a part of his powerset, he summoned the opposite of the immortal elders, and that opposite to immortal is Death, If he summoned the opposite against Eternity for instance, which would also be Death, he won't be capable of forcing Death to fight Eternity because their stalemate and truce or whatever you want to call it, is determined by a higher law then the one IB operates under. I have no idea as to which characters are immune to Infinity Gems as I don't read the handbooks.

And I'm not here to explain Anomoly which can not under any strecth be considered a opposite to IB, When Maelstrom made his black hole numerous Entities, the Celestials, The Watchers, Galactus and others showed up merely to watch, yet Quasar beat Maelstrom, should we then assume now that Quasar is above all of these beings and the Infinity Gauntlet as well? If we imply your logic then probably yes.

So your asking me to provide proof that the Anomoly is below the Abstracts in order for you to have evidence for your statement that the IB is above the Infinity Gauntlet, a statement that is now based on Anomoly and IB having a unshown relationship, while we know that the Anomoly was nothing but a factor in a battle between Oblivion and Infinity... This is getting far out.

He was severely disadvantaged at that point of time, because IB would be placed where he was at his strongest, not all powerful, but at his strongest, which is also telling for how the battle was going for IB, he needed to be placed in a location, where 1. Galactus had to expend energy getting away from 2. IB was at his strongest. Either way it doesn't at all paint a picture of IB was being significantly stronger then Galactus and it doesn't at all paint a picture of a being second in power only to LT.

He is a semi abstract as mentioned before, unless you have a logical explanation as to why each race perceives Galactus differently, or you have a logical reason as to why when addressing Eternity he toke the form of a Star, or you got a explanation as to why when Tenebrous and Aegis had downed him, he was bleeding energy not blood. He isn't full abstract but he certainly isn't full physical either.

This discussion, to get back to the primary reasons, was initiated because of several things, you having the belief that the IB is below none except the LT in Status and Power, Galactus Immunities to the Gems and IB's immunity to the Infinity Gems that I then claimed can't be seen as being on the same powerscale as the Infinity Gauntlet. That was the reason for this discussion, and atm, you have nothing that supports IB being second in power to only LT, you have nothing on panel that supports IB being above the Infinity Gauntlet or immune to it's power, that is it.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Yet she still have a good grasp at how the gem is going to be used, coupled with Adam Warlock using the Infinity Gauntlet to restrict her access to the gem probably didn't help her either. We also have another incident most notably Odin vs Thanos where Thanos told the Infinity Watch to pull back, if the watch with the Gems could easily have taken out Odin why didn't he bring them along, Adam was one of them and he can hardly be called a incompetent user of the gems.


But the TK incident is after Warlock gave the gem to her and told her it granted her that power and many others, yet she's never used it again, ever.

Of course Thanos told the Watch to pull back, they used the gems like morons. What's Pip gonna do? TP over Odin's head and "bonk" him?



The gems true power were unknown at the time they assaulted Galactus with them.



Of course he hides from his masters, they made him. Yet he has ordered a being supposedly higher on the cosmic scale than them around like a dog.

The Elders aren't immortal. The only reason they can't die was because of a bet Grandmaster and Death made. She swore she'd never take them and the IB made her eat her words and kill them.




The IB is the synthesis of all dualities, he would of course have access to Anomaly's powers. Maybe that's why the Handbook mentions his Gems immunity.

Quasar beat Maelstrom by using Anomaly's power against him. He distracted Maelstrom long enough, by stating that Quasar too had an aspect of Anomaly, for the Quantum Bands to consume him. Again it was Anomaly that came through.



Absolutely wrong. It was Anomaly that threw off Maelstrom's concentration and allowed him to be destroyed by the Bands.



Huh? The battle in "our" universe was stalemating with a slight advantage going for the IB. The IB didn't need to take the fight to the black hole or his magic universe.

The IB even said that they were in Galactus' realm, where he has the advantage. Yet Galactus couldn't put down the IB.



He has bled. This has been shown on panel. He has a skeletal structure, this has been shown on panel, numerous times. He looked "pale" and his lips were blistered and chapped when he was starved.

He's very physical. Even the Celestials who aren't abstractions at all have never shown such mortal weaknesses or attributes.




What Galactus "immunities to the gems"? I've only seen on panel evidence of immunity to one gem, and that gem seems to have problems with things like robots and "soulless" beings.

Anomaly was immune to the gems effects. The IB is the synthesis of all dualities. He has access to Anomaly's powers and aspects. The Handbook states he's immune to the Gems and their effects.

Maybe I exaggerated in saying he's second in power only to the LT, obviously his Masters have their foot on his throat. But even they have never ordered around an abstract higher then them on the cosmic hierarchy like a dog.

Originally posted by zopzop

He has bled. This has been shown on panel. He has a skeletal structure, this has been shown on panel, numerous times. He looked "pale" and his lips were blistered and chapped when he was starved.

He's very physical. Even the Celestials who aren't abstractions at all have never shown such mortal weaknesses or attributes.


I don't recall the 616 Galactus being shown to have a skeletal structure "numerous times." Where was this? The skull from the abraxas arc is from an alternate universe Galactus.

To clarify, Galactus is partially physical, but nowhere near the simple biology that you think:

Galan of Taa is pure flesh and blood. Mortal biology. Here, he merges with the Eternity of his universe. Of course, this Eternity, exactly like current Eternity, is an abstract concept.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4084/galactus11hb3.th.jpg

Thanos (Paraphrasing): Galactus is NOT of pure biology. To think he is purely biological is arrogance by beings of biological nature, which Galactus is not.

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/2264/annihilation3011hr7.th.jpg

Byrne: "For Galactus is truly no longer a being in the absolute physical sense"

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4691/galactuspov.th.png

This idea is revisted again in Stormbreaker. Galactus is perceived by the korbonites to be their god of destruction, Ashta

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1543/stormbreaker011112qk5.th.jpg

Johnny Storm, Herald of Galactus, whose power as the Invisible Man is to see things as they trully are (as opposed to what is seen by just the naked eye) calls Galactus "a metamorphosed embodiment of a cosmos" i.e., an entire universe made incarnate. Further reinforcing Galan of Taa merigng with the embodiment of his universe, Eternity. Not entirely physical.

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2628/g2wl7.th.jpg

Note how all of these scans are the writers affirming that Galactus is not a purely physical being.

In terms of artistic license...if you go by Galactus having chapped lips in Annihilation you also have to go by Galactus bleeding energy, as well as going by Galactus being perceived by the korbonites as their death god, Ashta. All of these instances are drawn by the same artist, Andrea DiVito. The chappend/imprisoned Galactus is just how Galactus is perceived to appear to the characters and to "the reader." Thanos confirms that Galactus is not a purely biological being. And for the 1 image of DP Tyrant making Galactus bleed, there's many more images of Wellinton Alves drawing Galactus to appear semi-abstract...in fact he appears like Eternity.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6066/nova014005colsx3.th.jpg

There's much more evidence than what I gave...it's on another computer. But this should be conclusive proof.

Originally posted by zopzop
But Death being killed by Beyonder (pre retcon or not) is official. Otherwise why would it be in her bio (just like the Protege owning the LT). It wasn't stated that it was an illusion or a misunderstanding (like his other feats).

According to official Marvel storyline, Beyonder killed Death. Bio's are more often wrong then right, and have non cannon stuff in the them on panel proof/Comics>>>>>>>>Bio's.


And there is no way pre recton Beyonder could kill Death.