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Vargas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vargas_%28comics%29

Vargas.

Vargas really shouldn't win against anybody, his feats were nonsense. I guess, he could take Creed going by his hype and results against the x-men, but they were just horrible writing if you ask me.

Originally posted by 753
Vargas really shouldn't win against anybody, his feats were nonsense. I guess, he could take Creed going by his hype and results against the x-men, but they were just horrible writing if you ask me.
What do you mean?

Ordinarily the "horrible writing" card can only be played when a character with an established powerset and history does something way out of his league, in Vargas's case his fight with the X-Men was his establishment.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
What do you mean?

Ordinarily the "horrible writing" card can only be played when a character with an established powerset and history does something way out of his league, in Vargas's case his fight with the X-Men was his establishment. Vargas was essentially a natural born Captain America. His combat feats should be impossible for someone like him and they depended on his enemies stupidity. Psylock could have shielded herself in a buble and crushed him with a telekinetic wall. Instead, she goes toe to toe in a swordfight.

YThe idea that the emergence of a super-peak human could threaten the mutant, which was the point of the story, is absurd. The way x-treme rogue, who cuold kill him with a thought just by accessing the right powers, struggled with him and everyone feared him was full of it too.

I just read the wiki for Vargas...and that seems pretty retarded.

he's humanity's response to mutants? newsflash...if you have superpowers, you're no longer human and more a mutant.

i was pretty sure i have to reread the story arc.. but, vargas did so well b/c certain mutant powers just didnt work on him period.

like the psylocke TK just washed over him as did rogues touch simply messed her up. he was just naturally immune. plus his peak stats made him bad@$$.. iirc.

also rogues powers were going haywire help explain her loss.

anyways.. sabretooth should be able to beat Vargas if he doesnt get decapitated with a sword swipe.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I just read the wiki for Vargas...and that seems pretty retarded.

he's humanity's response to mutants? newsflash...if you have superpowers, you're no longer human and more a mutant. Not if you get your powers naturally and you don't have an x-gene.

Mr Immortal isn't a mutant either.

Originally posted by King Castle
i was pretty sure i have to reread the story arc.. but, vargas did so well b/c certain mutant powers just didnt work on him period.

like the psylocke TK just washed over him as did rogues touch simply messed her up. he was just naturally immune. plus his peak stats made him bad@$$.. iirc.

also rogues powers were going haywire help explain her loss.

anyways.. sabretooth should be able to beat Vargas if he doesnt get decapitated with a sword swipe. You're remembering wrong.

He had super human stats.

Originally posted by Mindset
You're remembering wrong.

He had super human stats. i meant peak as in high end possibly superhuman..

but, still Vargas was hard to explain i placed him as an anomaly as agent Daryl.

can someone clarify is he was immune to Psylockes power... i dont wanna dig for the extreme x men comics

Originally posted by Mindset
Not if you get your powers naturally and you don't have an x-gene.

Mr Immortal isn't a mutant either. yeah but humanity fears mutants BECAUSE of the powers...not the gene

I mean if a mutant had a x-gene, but no manifest powers and looked and behaved like a human in every way, then humans wouldn't have a problem

also, having powers inherently makes you something beyond human...which by logic people should fear.

I didn't read his entire wiki profile that was provided, but while recently reading an X-Men comic reminded me of Vargas. Is he one of the Children of the Vault? As for this thread, I don't see any way in hell for Victor to win even one battle with Vargas. The guy chopped a building down with a broadsword, how can Creed compete with that kind of thing?

Originally posted by Starscream M
yeah but humanity fears mutants BECAUSE of the powers...not the gene

I mean if a mutant had a x-gene, but no manifest powers and looked and behaved like a human in every way, then humans wouldn't have a problem

also, having powers inherently makes you something beyond human...which by logic people should fear. I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

"He's humanity's response to mutants" just means he is an evolved human that is not a mutant. What does this post have to do with anything?

Originally posted by Mindset
I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

"He's humanity's response to mutants" just means he is an evolved human that is not a mutant. What does this post have to do with anything?

Is he one of the Children of the Vault?

No

Originally posted by Mindset
I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

"He's humanity's response to mutants" just means he is an evolved human that is not a mutant. What does this post have to do with anything? isn't that semantics...evolving beyond humanity IS a mutation

Originally posted by Stoic
I didn't read his entire wiki profile that was provided, but while recently reading an X-Men comic reminded me of Vargas. Is he one of the Children of the Vault? As for this thread, I don't see any way in hell for Victor to win even one battle with Vargas. The guy chopped a building down with a broadsword, how can Creed compete with that kind of thing? No, the children of the vault were humans who evolved isolated in a ship where time went by faster than in regular wold. They're considered a different species from humans, because of all the millenia of gentic drift. Initially they didn't have have natural superpowers, only high tech weapons wired into their bodies, sometimes altering their physiologies. More recently, as they returned in legacy, it seems they have been retconned into naturally superpowered folk.

Originally posted by Starscream M
isn't that semantics...evolving beyond humanity IS a mutation If you have an x-gene you're a mutant, if you don't then you're not.

Simple as that.

Originally posted by Mindset
If you have an x-gene you're a mutant, if you don't then you're not.

Simple as that. so what's the biological explanation for their powers then? or is it just these people are magically powered?

Originally posted by Starscream M
so what's the biological explanation for their powers then? or is it just these people are magically powered? Evolution.

Originally posted by Starscream M
so what's the biological explanation for their powers then? or is it just these people are magically powered? He was born that way, that's it.

Originally posted by Mindset
Evolution. evolution is a result of mutation. the successful mutated genes are passed on to offspring while the unsuccessful are not. hence, mutation and evolution really go hand in hand. they're not separate phenomenons.

Originally posted by Mindset
If you have an x-gene you're a mutant, if you don't then you're not.

Simple as that.

Originally posted by Starscream M
evolution is a result of mutation. the successful mutated genes are passed on to offspring while the unsuccessful are not. hence, mutation and evolution really go hand in hand. they're not separate phenomenons. Were talking about comics where nature behaves with intentions. Vargas had no X-gene

Originally posted by 753
Were talking about comics where nature behaves with intentions. Vargas had no X-gene eh, ok.

X-Men Legacy is quickly becoming a must read. But errm... Yea Vargas ftw.

What are his feats?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What are his feats?
Owning Rogue, Beast, and Psylocke. Killing Psylocke in a sword duel. Resisting Rogue's touch.

IIRC, he just cut the main pillar in half and it came down on its own. ST could probably manage something like that.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Owning Rogue, Beast, and Psylocke. Killing Psylocke in a sword duel. Resisting Rogue's touch. So Tuesday for Sabes?

Originally posted by Starscream M
yeah but humanity fears mutants BECAUSE of the powers...not the gene


Kinda arguable, 'random freak' heroes like the F4 are generally accepted, but X-gene mutants with useless or no powers get the prejudice.

Mutant politics have developed into something pretty messed-up in universe. The fear of power is just part of it.

Originally posted by 753
Vargas was essentially a natural born Captain America. His combat feats should be impossible for someone like him and they depended on his enemies stupidity. Psylock could have shielded herself in a buble and crushed him with a telekinetic wall. Instead, she goes toe to toe in a swordfight.

YThe idea that the emergence of a super-peak human could threaten the mutant, which was the point of the story, is absurd. The way x-treme rogue, who cuold kill him with a thought just by accessing the right powers, struggled with him and everyone feared him was full of it too.

Im really not sure that the X-men would have been able to do the feats you mentioned. I really think that his 'peak-human' was above Cap, from what I remember he was a peak 'human' mutant.

I got the impression (and iirc it was in an interview about him) that he was superhuman well passed peak, it's just his thing was that rather than having random X-gene powers, he had everything a human did but more. More strength, more speed, and so on.


Human-multiplied rather than Human-with-power.

I actually agree with Strascream. Evolution is a form of physical mutation.

anyway sabes should win

Originally posted by Warlord
I actually agree with Strascream. Evolution is a form of physical mutation.

anyway sabes should win

yes in the real world sense ot in the comic book sense, -xgene = "mutant"

true.

also I never got the phobia people in Marvel Earth have agaist mutants but random empowered guys are hailed as heroes.

Xmen have saved the earth as many times as the Avengers and still they are the outcasts while the others get a parade and stuff...
just absurd

Originally posted by Warlord
true.

also I never got the phobia people in Marvel Earth have agaist mutants but random empowered guys are hailed as heroes.

Xmen have saved the earth as many times as the Avengers and still they are the outcasts while the others get a parade and stuff...
just absurd
With the possible exception of the Hulk family (who are approaching this status ) most of those random empowered guys aren't members of races.

It's much easier to fear a group than it is to fear an individual.

Besides, humans are jealous of their powers and afraid of being replaced by them, afraid that their own children will be mutants.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
With the possible exception of the Hulk family (who are approaching this status ) most of those random empowered guys aren't members of races.

It's much easier to fear a group than it is to fear an individual.

they are "the superpowered beings"

Originally posted by Warlord
they are "the superpowered beings" They actually have their own classification, they're mutates. Their children, however, are just considered mutants, usually because the events that give them powers awake dorment genes that would produce mutants in future generations.

Daisy Johnson being an exception, as her superpowers came from her mutate father and she is not considerd a mutant.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
With the possible exception of the Hulk family (who are approaching this status ) most of those random empowered guys aren't members of races.

It's much easier to fear a group than it is to fear an individual.

That doesn't matter though because these individuals can have superhuman children. I've often wondered about this as well, doesn't make sense.

their children will be considered mutants

Franklin Richards anyone.... yeah it doesn't make sense

Originally posted by Deadline
That doesn't matter though because these individuals can have superhuman children. I've often wondered about this as well, doesn't make sense.
Well with mutates there's no real connection like there is with mutants and their x-gene. Also the fact that mutants are born naturally while mutates come about usually as the result of accidents makes the presence of mutants more real.

People generally fear a group because of an often imagined notion that the group are all part of some sinister collective. With mutates that's less tangible than it is with mutants who actually have advocacy groups (the X-Men, the Brotherhood) and racial leaders.

Franklin has the x-gene.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Franklin has the x-gene.

I always assumed he had powers because of his parents. This shows you how illogical this is. Even if he didn't have the X-gene he still most likely would have powers. So this means you can be born with powers and not have the X-gene?


Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well with mutates there's no real connection like there is with mutants and their x-gene. Also the fact that mutants are born naturally while mutates come about usually as the result of accidents makes the presence of mutants more real.


It doesn't matter its splitting hairs. They essentially hate mutants because of their powers, the only difference is some people get them by accident. Sometimes this is because the individuals have different genetics but not the x-gene. I also thought everybody had the x-gene but in some cases it gets triggered by an accident this seems to have been retconed.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

People generally fear a group because of an often imagined notion that the group are all part of some sinister collective. With mutates that's less tangible than it is with mutants who actually have advocacy groups (the X-Men, the Brotherhood) and racial leaders.

It only ended up like that because of the writers. Realistically other superhumans would have groups as well. In fact I think they do but they're not known or as notorious.

Originally posted by Warlord
their children will be considered mutants

Franklin Richards anyone.... yeah it doesn't make sense RR adn IW would have mutant children regardless. The idea here is that mutates gain superpowers because the empowering events awaken/alter their dorment mutant genes that would only manifest naturally 1 or more generations down the line. Their children get the awaken/mutated x-gene and are therefore mutants.

But at least one child of a mutate has superpowers and is not considered a mutant: Daisy Johnson.

Originally posted by Deadline




It only ended up like that because of the writers. Realistically other superhumans would have groups as well. In fact I think they do but they're not known or as notorious.
Why would they have groups though? It's not as if mutates have ever been oppressed (barring Spider-Man perhaps ) and there really aren't a lot of them compared to mutants who at their height numbered in the tens of thousands IIRC.

The only "advocacy groups" for mutates have been government sponsored teams like the Avengers.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Why would they have groups though? It's not as if mutates have ever been oppressed (barring Spider-Man perhaps ) and there really aren't a lot of them compared to mutants who at their height numbered in the tens of thousands IIRC.

The only "advocacy groups" for mutates have been government sponsored teams like the Avengers. The genoshan mutates were a slave class. Mutants peaked in the dozens of millions.

Originally posted by Deadline
I also thought everybody had the x-gene but in some cases it gets triggered by an accident this seems to have been retconed.





It's one of many explanations floating around in marvel, there is nothing thats concrete currently I think.