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Aliens vs Magic

who wins?

T2 barely or split

Team 1 handily.

adam beats j'onn as he's done already
thor beats surfer as he's done already
superman vs billy i don't care

T2 after a good fight

John mind-controls shut owns Thor in the blink of an eye. Surfer makes a blackhole and Superman pummels the two gravity held helpless opponents.

J'onn has trouble with godlike characters' brains. Ask adam Not to mention being unaffected by Nightmare (along with the other gods) is a feat on its own.

scenario two: Adam speedblitzes J'onn
CM stalemates Superman while Thor hammers the shit out of Surfer

I don't see Adam blitzing J'onn at all, tbh.

That said, I think team 2 takes it.

Team 1

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't see Adam blitzing J'onn at all, tbh.

That said, I think team 2 takes it.

by blitzing I mean something like engaging at once in h2h with him rather than he one-shots him.

we agree team 2 would win a 5,5/10. no way any team could easily win and Bentley should be baned...

Originally posted by Warlord
J'onn has trouble with godlike characters' brains. Ask adam Not to mention being unaffected by Nightmare (along with the other gods) is a feat on its own.

scenario two: Adam speedblitzes J'onn
CM stalemates Superman while Thor hammers the shit out of Surfer


Adam used sheer hate and MM's empathy to achieve that feat, Thor has been mind-controlled by Moondragon on occasion he ain't a psychic powerhouse.

Superman can beat anyone on team two, the other two are way too flexible to fall against random bricks just like that.

team 2 wins 6 or 7/10.

Thor takes surfer... captain marvel takes supes and black adam takes the martian.

MM mindrapes CM who gets mindcontrolled every other week and sics him on BA. Team proceeds to destroy Thor.

Originally posted by Bentley
Adam used sheer hate and MM's empathy to achieve that feat, Thor has been mind-controlled by Moondragon on occasion he ain't a psychic powerhouse.

Superman can beat anyone on team two, the other two are way too flexible to fall against random bricks just like that.

nice but MM has shown to have problems with guys like Joker etc...
and having read a bounch comic books with Thor besides the Moondragon instance I remember him more times resisting TP than succumbing to it. Not to mention MD wasn't directly controlling him rather than clouding his jugement.

as for superman being able to beat anyone in team 2 this is debatable.
MM has fallen to bricks so many times in his career and surfer rarely does something else than blasting and flying.

T2 still

Prove Thor's mind resistance is pumped as you say, I haven't seen much of Thor prevailing against high end psychics.

MM can always stay phased and mind-rape.

Originally posted by Warlord
nice but MM has shown to have problems with guys like Joker etc...

so? why do people keep bringing that up as if it's some sort of low showing? the guy tricked mxy and is aware of alternate universes, and his mind is so chaotic that he's fought off people like Raven when they tried to get in his head.

Team 1 handily.

Originally posted by -Pr-
so? why do people keep bringing that up as if it's some sort of low showing? the guy tricked mxy and is aware of alternate universes, and his mind is so chaotic that he's fought off people like Raven when they tried to get in his head. Not just alternate universes, he's displayed some 4th wall awareness, although writers rarely, if ever, have him outright break it.

Originally posted by Bentley
Prove Thor's mind resistance is pumped as you say, I haven't seen much of Thor prevailing against high end psychics.

MM can always stay phased and mind-rape.

where have you seen him failing then?
I remember him fighting phoenix and xavier commenting that his mind is not an easy target for tp.

you say he'll be mind blasted for fun by MM prove it would be that easy

Manhunter is the weak link.Team 2.

Originally posted by Warlord
where have you seen him failing then?
I remember him fighting phoenix and xavier commenting that his mind is not an easy target for tp.

you say he'll be mind blasted for fun by MM prove it would be that easy


Yeah, like he resisted mind-control from the Collector, being mind-raped and paralysed -twice- by Ultron 7, controlled by the Godness and the afore mentionned Moondragon. That just flipping through a few issues I had around.

wasn't Ultron using the encephalo-ray or something?
Collector used some machinery IIRC too

I don't know about the Godness incident

Originally posted by Warlord
wasn't Ultron using the encephalo-ray or something?
Collector used some machinery IIRC too

I don't know about the Godness incident


Yeah, they weren't using TP per se, but they were types of mind-control. Ultron's encephalo ray is close enough to TP that Mantis is able to "mind-read" Ultron when she tried to protect Starlod from a mind probe. I can look at more examples later, but Thor has never showed many impressive tp resistance as far as I've seen; maybe there are some more interesting telepathy feats in his main book, I haven't read most of Thor's published history to be fair.

ODG probably knows much better what Thor is capable of in that respect.

Originally posted by Bentley
Yeah, they weren't using TP per se, but they were types of mind-control. Ultron's encephalo ray is close enough to TP that Mantis is able to "mind-read" Ultron when she tried to protect Starlod from a mind probe. I can look at more examples later, but Thor has never showed many impressive tp resistance as far as I've seen; maybe there are some more interesting telepathy feats in his main book, I haven't read most of Thor's published history to be fair.

ODG probably knows much better what Thor is capable of in that respect.

I'm not saying this just to support thor vs TP but for me, gadgetry designed to mess with brainwaves is not the same to Telepathy (psionic ouput).
Both Collector and Ultron fall under that category. I do accept the Moondragon incident although IIRC she also said she could not directly control him and the best she could do is cloud his judgment (I could be wrong in this one it's been ages since I read vol 1 avengers books). However I do remember Thor fighting Phoenix and defo there was no mind control in this one. The chaos war stuff also makes me support the view that "god" characters are somehow protected from mind influence. anyway ODG or Rage could provide more solid proof to prove me right or wrong. For me, MM one shooting Thor with TP is as likely as one shooting let's say Superman this way

Nah, I don't mean to say he one-shots him, but he can put him down fast enough to give team two problems by being outnumbered.

I wouldn't compare with Kal though. Superman has incredible tp feats blocking feats, the fact that Maxwell Lord took years to affect him through guile is quite a feat on itself. Actually, I don't think anyone in this battle, even MM himself has proved as strong against tp than Superman. But well, this things are rarely consistent through a character history.

For what it counts, Moondragon was more or less controlling an entire planet when she assaulted Thor, and she declared she was spent at the moment the Avengers went against her. But since I've read Thor more in the Avengers than on his own series I may be exposed to low showings in order to make others look good. I still consider MM's telepathy a deciding factor in herald level fights because tp resistance feats are not necesarily everywhere.

IMO, it'll come down to Surfer + Superman > Thor.

team 1
Surfer beat Thor
Supes beat Adam
MM can hold Capt

Originally posted by Bentley
Nah, I don't mean to say he one-shots him, but he can put him down fast enough to give team two problems by being outnumbered.

I wouldn't compare with Kal though. Superman has incredible tp feats blocking feats, the fact that Maxwell Lord took years to affect him through guile is quite a feat on itself. Actually, I don't think anyone in this battle, even MM himself has proved as strong against tp than Superman. But well, this things are rarely consistent through a character history.

For what it counts, Moondragon was more or less controlling an entire planet when she assaulted Thor, and she declared she was spent at the moment the Avengers went against her. But since I've read Thor more in the Avengers than on his own series I may be exposed to low showings in order to make others look good. I still consider MM's telepathy a deciding factor in herald level fights because tp resistance feats are not necesarily everywhere.

IMO it depends on how the pairs would go.
If MM pairs with Thor I wouldn't bet on a quick KO via TP more than a quick TP via hammer throw. MM's intangibility can be negated by Mjolnir. As for Supes having the better TP resistance here, it will not really matter since team 2 doesn't have TP users but I can point out a low TP showing for every high one. DC just isn't sure how they want to write him. IMO it's more a willpower thing more than a natural resistance one. IMO anyone on team 2 can split with anyone on team two more or less

While I agree that Thor's powerset should be able to negate phasing, is there any showing of him affecting a dimensional shifted opponent rather than one that control his/her own density. Showings of the latter would be cool too.

he's done it to vision two times IIRC, one being in an avengers annual.
as for a dimentioning phased oponent i don't know but i think he was able to hit spirits or something in his own book.

It's possible, after all Mjolmir is a magical weapon capable of opening dimensional rifts.

I have a doubt about Black Adam: Was he having a power pump during the WW3 arc? Sometimes in the forums they discussed about this being the case -something about gaining Isis's powers if I recall correctly- but I never found if it was debunked or not.

Originally posted by Bentley
It's possible, after all Mjolmir is a magical weapon capable of opening dimensional rifts.

I have a doubt about Black Adam: Was he having a power pump during the WW3 arc? Sometimes in the forums they discussed about this being the case -something about gaining Isis's powers if I recall correctly- but I never found if it was debunked or not.

well it's ambiguous... some people say he was amped some say he was pised. he just seemed more determined to me.

To be fair MM was doing fine against him and he could beat him if he used his powers properly...which he rarely does though

Well, MM has about zero fans out there, he's like DC's Wonderman.

For what is worth along with Hal and Wally he's in my top 3 of DC.

I just don't like him as much as I like Thor...
By the way I miss ionic Wonderman.
Martian Mind will agree with the above too (except the Thor part)

Originally posted by Bentley
It's possible, after all Mjolmir is a magical weapon capable of opening dimensional rifts.

I have a doubt about Black Adam: Was he having a power pump during the WW3 arc? Sometimes in the forums they discussed about this being the case -something about gaining Isis's powers if I recall correctly- but I never found if it was debunked or not.

he was charged by Isis.

Originally posted by 753
MM mindrapes CM who gets mindcontrolled every other week and sics him on BA. Team proceeds to destroy Thor.




I like that! That's good. No sarcasm here either.

Is it possible though? That's what I'd like to know.

Surfer>Black Adam
Martian Manhunter< Captain Marvel
Superman < Thor

team 2 wins

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Surfer>Black Adam
Martian Manhunter > Captain Marvel
Superman > Thor

team 1 wins


Fixed.

I just don't get how you chose the matchups, I actually see combinations that would give team 2 better odds than the ones you gave

Originally posted by -Pr-
he was charged by Isis. yeah AMPED

Originally posted by BobbyD


I like that! That's good. No sarcasm here either.

Is it possible though? That's what I'd like to know. I believe so, yes.

changed my mind. Team 1 wins due to J'onn and Norin.

still it's a hard fight

Team 1, and hard.

Surfer can bfr.
Thor can bfr.
Surfer can't find easely where the hell are his partner that Thor bfr'd, with Cosmic Awarness.
Thor don't have Cosmic Awarness.

Surfer can go intengible.
Jonn can go intengible.

Surfer is pretty much the fastest character by far. The second fastest, in my opinion, would be Superman. Also, only he and Thor can teleport.

Surfer can amp Superman, and heal his teammates.

At the end, the Silver Surfer, being the most powerful on the field, and by far the most versatile, makes the difference. Plus, Manhunter and Superman are the 3rd and 4rth most versatile, behind Thor. And most importantly, if Sups is hurt, Surfer can heal/amp him. Which would kind of suck for team 2.

I think Thor would be able to amp/heal his teammates too.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Aliens vs Magic

who wins?

thor beats surfer while billy and teth deal with supes and MM. After SS is MM falls fast. In the end supes puts up a good fight but loses.

Originally posted by 753
MM mindrapes CM who gets mindcontrolled every other week and sics him on BA. Team proceeds to destroy Thor.

Billy is very poor when it comes to defending his mind. never seen a D.c. hero that gets mind controled more then billy. This works to MM's advantage.

Originally posted by Bentley
Fixed.

I just don't get how you chose the matchups, I actually see combinations that would give team 2 better odds than the ones you gave


supes>thor


WRONG

Originally posted by zeel
supes>thor


WRONG

Thor might split with Superman only thanks to weakness exploitation.

And more often than not Kal pummels him

Originally posted by Bentley
Thor might split with Superman only thanks to weakness exploitation.

And more often than not Kal pummels him

which is magic which is there all the time.

and more often than not the writers would have Kal pummel anyone

Originally posted by Bentley
Thor might split with Superman only thanks to weakness exploitation.

And more often than not Kal pummels him


most people would disagree with you on that statement. Its a pretty even fight.

Originally posted by zeel
most people would disagree with you on that statement. Its a pretty even fight.


Nop. Most people agree they split with magic -which is what I said-. Most people also agree that Kal sh*tstomps without magic.

Originally posted by Bentley
Nop. Most people agree they split with magic -which is what I said-. Most people also agree that Kal sh*tstomps without magic. I don't think many even used magic as a major argument for Thor winning.

Really? What else did they use? BFR? Versatility using unamed abilities?

Thor has little advantage against Kal when it comes to combat abilities, magic is pretty much the reason to give some edge to Thor.