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My father died about 5 years ago. I get dreams every now and then him showing up at my door or im visiting his place in acapulco. sometimes they hurt more than anything else.

afew days ago I had a hard one where it felt so damn real not just in my dream but it felt like if i was talking to someone in real life like right there in front of me. and i woke up with a huge heart shock. lucky i didnt have a heart attack. He just surprised me in that dream more than any other time. I even felt kinda dizzy the rest of the day. never felt anything like it

sometimes in the dreams i have with him after talking awhile i know they are fake, sometimes they are so real in my dream im crying bumping into him and when i wake up my face is already wet from crying while i was asleep thats how real they feel.

some people are telling me he is trying to communicate with me and stay in touch. I dont know if thats true or its jus my immagination 100%

you know usually in dreams you cant control what goes on but last night i had another dream with my dad. and in that brain i can focus and decide what questions to ask him and what i wanted to do. its like if i was in another world but there in person. for some reason i didnt wake up with a huge heart shock like afew nights ago but in this one i communicated more realistically

I dont know if im crazy and he is trying to stay in touch or its just my immagination of the communication thats going on cause maybe i know what he would say if he was still here.

but they feel so damn real.

Has anyone else felt like they can communicate with lost ones in there dreams before ?

Love doesn't stop flowing the moment someone dies. The need to connect is deep and strong, and the mind accommodates when it can. My father died more than 20 years ago, and he still pops up now and then in my dreams (so does my brother, who also died about 5 years ago), and when I realize I'm dreaming and seeing him again, I cry and at the same time treasure those moments.

I have yet to experience anything that would suggest I am actually communicating with his spirit. But in terms of what the heart needs to heal, to remember, to cherish, these moments are as real as they need to be.

Originally posted by Mindship
Love doesn't stop flowing the moment someone dies. The need to connect is deep and strong, and the mind accommodates when it can. My father died more than 20 years ago, and he still pops up now and then in my dreams (so does my brother, who also died about 5 years ago), and when I realize I'm dreaming and seeing him again, I cry and at the same time treasure those moments.

I have yet to experience anything that would suggest I am actually communicating with his spirit. But in terms of what the heart needs to heal, to remember, to cherish, these moments are as real as they need to be. They are nice momments for sure but they can be so heartbreaking. its like you never want to wake up. once you wake up and find out it was all a dream it kills you. I had one afew nights back where in my dream almost had a heart attack and as well when i woke up cause it felt so damn real. I couldnt leave the house that day.

Usually they all feel so real but this one was like whole different level. its hard to explain

Originally posted by chomperx9
They are nice momments for sure but they can be so heartbreaking. its like you never want to wake up. once you wake up and find out it was all a dream it kills you. I had one afew nights back where in my dream almost had a heart attack and as well when i woke up cause it felt so damn real. I couldnt leave the house that day.

Usually they all feel so real but this one was like whole different level. its hard to explain Maybe you should keep a dream log.

Originally posted by Mindship
Maybe you should keep a dream log. dream log ?

Originally posted by chomperx9
dream log ? From now on, write down what you remember of these dreams: date, content, intensity; especially if they happen once in a while. See how they compare. They'll likely recur.

Originally posted by Mindship
From now on, write down what you remember of these dreams: date, content, intensity; especially if they happen once in a while. See how they compare. They'll likely recur. I dont know if i would ever go back and read them. they are so heartbreaking these days.

I like the ones better i used to have afew years back where in my dream he is still alive like if he was still here on a normal day.

Like i had some dreams before where I just went over to his place and hung out with him after work like i used to. like it was just a normal day when he was alive. those dont bother me and they are fun

the dreams i get now i know in my head he is dead and when i see him it just F ing hurts like nothing else.

Had one afew days ago him telling me he never died that he just wanted to move on and found a better life for himself. thats when i woke up with the big heart shock and could not breath for afew secs.

Sounds like your dreams are moving you toward facing the fact, emotionally, of his demise.

Originally posted by Mindship
From now on, write down what you remember of these dreams: date, content, intensity; especially if they happen once in a while. See how they compare. They'll likely recur. Worked for Jason Bourne.

why was the 1,ooo,ooo post forum closed?

lately i've also been having some weird dreams. I hardly choose to remember my dreams usually and I like it that way, but lately I have been dreaming about someone I used to work with when I was a teenager. Damn she was hot

Dreams are nothing more than our imaginations running wild.

For what it's worth: my two preferred definitions of dreaming...

1 (long winded version). When awake, the organism's attention is mostly on gross-level activities, basically bodily survival, eg, eating, or not getting run over by a car when crossing the street. When asleep, attention shifts more to subtler processes, metabolic, information processing; basically activities the organism still needs to survive/develop. Our perception of these subtler processes we call dreaming.

2 (short version). Dreaming is the whole body (not just the brain) "thinking."

In either case, because the "gestalt of the organism" is involved, this is why dreams often seem to make no logical sense and often seem so real.

Originally posted by Mindship
For what it's worth: my two preferred definitions of dreaming...

1 (long winded version). When awake, the organism's attention is mostly on gross-level activities, basically bodily survival, eg, eating, or not getting run over by a car when crossing the street. When asleep, attention shifts more to subtler processes, metabolic, information processing; basically activities the organism still needs to survive/develop. Our perception of these subtler processes we call dreaming.

2 (short version). Dreaming is the whole body (not just the brain) "thinking."

In either case, because the "gestalt of the organism" is involved, this is why dreams often seem to make no logical sense and often seem so real.

I usually have number 2 when I do dream, so that makes sense.

Originally posted by Kaibs
I usually have number 2 when I do dream, so that makes sense. You dream and pewp at the same time?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You dream and pewp at the same time?

You're sick sir.

I could imagine that it is possible I have had dreams about my Grandfather who passed away a year ago and we talk like he is standing right next to me and is alive but I never remember what is said.And he comes to my dreams in different ages through I am the same.

Try some Ayahuasca, and experience co op dreams. Ie a group dreams together the same dream with each other.

I never heard of that.Is that really possible?

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
I never heard of that.Is that really possible? I suspect that if this had been scientifically documented, we'd've experienced a paradigm shift. In other words, a lot of people would've gone, "Wtf!?"

Interesting thanks for the details.

I find that I only start dreaming about stuff when I'm having a problem with that specific thing. In this case it would be a friend. And since we're sort of arguing a lot lately it's been a lot shit that has ended bad.

I had a dream about my one friend too who I feel is losing our friendship not by fighting or anything like that but we just seen to be losing interest in each other.In my dream however we did argue and ended in it.That is yet to happen in real life but I can see that happening any day now.

To take the title of this thread somewhat literally: next time someone is talking to you in your dreams, listen carefully for the exact words being said.

I know that I have some sort of an sixth sense bc some of what I dream do come true and most of the time they are about people of people that I know...I do keep a dream log,now

That's cool.

I do believe that things that are going on in your life can come out in symbolic dreams. I think it sort of helps you know your inner feelings better.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
That's cool.

I do believe that things that are going on in your life can come out in symbolic dreams. I think it sort of helps you know your inner feelings better.

Yeah and we all have a sixth sence I do think it would make ur feelings more understandable..

after making this thread I havent had one heart breaking dream of my dad since.

Originally posted by chomperx9
after making this thread I havent had one heart breaking dream of my dad since.

Yes Chomperx9 You are in our hands now : )

Originally posted by chomperx9
after making this thread I havent had one heart breaking dream of my dad since. Does this mean the dreams are entirely gone, or they've taken a new tone and are no longer heart-breaking?

Originally posted by Mindship
Does this mean the dreams are entirely gone, or they've taken a new tone and are no longer heart-breaking?

I believe this thread

Originally posted by Mindship
Does this mean the dreams are entirely gone, or they've taken a new tone and are no longer heart-breaking? all the ones I have of him now are jus regular every day apperances in my dream like if he was still alive. those dont bother me. I dont have as many dreams of him now also. maybe like one or two every two weeks or so.

Originally posted by chomperx9
all the ones I have of him now are jus regular every day apperances in my dream like if he was still alive. those dont bother me. I dont have as many dreams of him now also. maybe like one or two every two weeks or so. This thread you made has apparently served something of a healing function for you.

I'm a great believer in dreams. They help you get perspective on the emotional aspects of your life and can also serve as communication in some ways.

There are some really good resources out there to help you with dream interpretations.

I had another dream of my dad last night. wasnt heartbreaking but it felt a little real from the start like I was right there and I could choose what i wanted to say.

Me and my dad were on a vacation and I dont know why his old GF had to be in the dream when I hate the $lut more than anything else. just used my dad and now she is sleeping with his best friend.

Anyways back to the dream me and my dad had an arguement over why me and him could not have gone on a trip just me and him. It was a convo like we normally have when it involves her. everything he said sounded just like the words he would say if we had the convo in real life.

I had control over what I had to say. I dont know if anyone else can do that. its like in my brain while asleep i was thinking what to say before responding like everyone does in real life. after awhile I realized it was just a dream and woke up.

I didnt wake up with a huge shock or anything like some of the other dreams mentioned before. Just dissapointed with why I woke myself up.

Originally posted by chomperx9
I had another dream of my dad last night. wasnt heartbreaking but it felt a little real from the start like I was right there and I could choose what i wanted to say.

Me and my dad were on a vacation and I dont know why his old GF had to be in the dream when I hate the $lut more than anything else. just used my dad and now she is sleeping with his best friend.

Anyways back to the dream me and my dad had an arguement over why me and him could not have gone on a trip just me and him. It was a convo like we normally have when it involves her. everything he said sounded just like the words he would say if we had the convo in real life.

I had control over what I had to say. I dont know if anyone else can do that. its like in my brain while asleep i was thinking what to say before responding like everyone does in real life. after awhile I realized it was just a dream and woke up.

I didnt wake up with a huge shock or anything like some of the other dreams mentioned before. Just dissapointed with why I woke myself up.

Maybe you heard something while u wrere sleeping and when u woke up u forgot why?

Originally posted by alltoomany
Maybe you heard something while u wrere sleeping and when u woke up u forgot why? I woke up cause in my dream I was kinda telling myself this has to be a dream. once that happens I wake up. thats one thing I dont have control over.

Originally posted by chomperx9
I woke up cause in my dream I was kinda telling myself this has to be a dream. once that happens I wake up. thats one thing I dont have control over.

well it sounds like ur dad has moved on and wants you to do the same

Originally posted by alltoomany
well it sounds like ur dad has moved on and wants you to do the same im sure he would want me to move on, but if he is in my head staying in touch with me every week, how can I move on.

Originally posted by chomperx9
im sure he would want me to move on, but if he is in my head staying in touch with me every week, how can I move on. Apparently there is still unfinished business.

go buy a good book to read... here Think like a man, Act like a woman is a great book

Originally posted by chomperx9
I woke up cause in my dream I was kinda telling myself this has to be a dream. once that happens I wake up. thats one thing I dont have control over. I've had that happen many times. It really helped with nightmares I used to have. I learned I could control the dream and the outcome. Since I learned to do that, I no longer have any nightmares at all.

yep it happened to me a few days ago..a last name and a death

Had another one last night of my dad. I was visiting the Condo thats been in the families name for many years and was my dads. It was like a 2nd home to me when i was a kid and visited him there in Acapulco all the time. My dad told me he was going to leave it for me and put it in my name when I got older. he never did and he did not leave a will. its in my grandpas hands pretty much and He wants to sale it cause its just sitting there.

Me and him have been debating over the property ever since my dad died. My grandpa doesnt understand it has nothing to do with financial value. its like a big piece of my dad thats still here, but my granpda doesnt understand things like that.

but last night I had a dream where I was there lving in the Condo and Bam out of the blues my dad pops up at the door and gave me a huge shock. another one of those feelings like as if he was right there in person in real life and I could choose what I wanted to say. Woke up with a huge shock. Lucky I havent had a Heart attack by now. these dreams where he pops up out of no where is just torture sometimes. I dont wanna wake up. woke up with my face being wet. thats how intense these feel

I have dreams every day and they always play out as some story (mind you, all of them are quite entertaining) with somebody I know being the 'featured' character.

It makes sleeping fun, but if only I could remember what happened 5 minutes later after waking up.

But yeah, the freakiest thing is when you have premonitions.

I have a lot of dreams where I'm bored out of my mind. Often turn out I'm not sleeping, I'm just watching the news.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I have a lot of dreams where I'm bored out of my mind. Often turn out I'm not sleeping, I'm just watching the news.

I like the subject of dreams, but this particular thread seems too dark to list mine, which are usually hysterical. and include actors/actresses, which ties in well with the KMC vibe, but would do little to nothing for philosophy. should I start a new thread about celebs or just set up camp up here?

Here's a snippet from a dream interpretation dictionary.

"To dream of your father represents your conscience, or your ability to make positive choices, or choose between right and wrong. He can also be your projection of him if you have issues with him that need to be dealt with.

Anything your father says in a dream will shed light on a problem you need to make a choice about. Will you stand up to fear, or not? Will you decide to tell the truth? Or will you choose to do the right thing?"
Source was dreambible.com

Originally posted by marxie
Here's a snippet from a dream interpretation dictionary.

"To dream of your father represents your conscience, or your ability to make positive choices, or choose between right and wrong. He can also be your projection of him if you have issues with him that need to be dealt with.

Anything your father says in a dream will shed light on a problem you need to make a choice about. Will you stand up to fear, or not? Will you decide to tell the truth? Or will you choose to do the right thing?"
Source was dreambible.com What if you never knew your father, or even know what he looks like? How is the conscience represented then?

Dreams are definitely interesting. My mother and I have a really, really bad relationship, yet when I dream, she becomes my "mommy" figure. As in, nurturing, healing, little-kid "I lurve my mommy" type of mommy figure. And my Dad isn't a "daddy figure." He's "the fool." It's interesting to relook at your dreams to see how you visualize certain people versus how you visualize them in your awake life.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
What if you never knew your father, or even know what he looks like? How is the conscience represented then? Usually there is a disciplinary/authority figure in a person's life. It doesn't have to literally be a male parent. You can often identify the source of the inner "authority voice" by listening and paying close attention to "who's speaking".

Originally posted by Mindship
Usually there is a disciplinary/authority figure in a person's life. It doesn't have to literally be a male parent. You can often identify the source of the inner "authority voice" by listening and paying close attention to "who's speaking".

This is true for more then just dreams.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Dreams are definitely interesting. My mother and I have a really, really bad relationship, yet when I dream, she becomes my "mommy" figure. As in, nurturing, healing, little-kid "I lurve my mommy" type of mommy figure. And my Dad isn't a "daddy figure." He's "the fool." It's interesting to relook at your dreams to see how you visualize certain people versus how you visualize them in your awake life.

It's probably a bit of projection-wish fulfillment involved? Subconsciously, our minds seek to represent ideas that may be bothering us that we've repressed. One of my more vivid dreams was interpreted and the results were surprising at the time, but in retrospect accurately determined how I was really feeling. Even if I couldn't recognize it then.

The trick is, with psychoanalysis, there's no definite way to interpret all things correctly, and some speculation and reflection is necessary. For example, last night I dreamed I had a cat perched on my shoulder as I walked through a run down part of town, talking to people I knew in the dream, but not in real life.

Clearly, I must get in touch with my feminine sexuality and I am feeling sorry for myself, or have crumbling ideals. Sounds legit.

What is sleep?

Originally posted by Oneness
What is sleep?

It's those missing three days after a week long meth beige.

Originally posted by Oneness
What is sleep?

It's the thing which interrupts "life" sporadically to keep Sealy in business.

You're rarely, if ever, making conscious decisions in dreams about what people "mean" to you. It's mostly a LOT of postdiction, ascribing meaning after the fact. This is also in addition to the vast amount of details that our brain changes or fills in about dreams, which also change over time. Our memories are very, very fallible, more so when we're not directly conscious.

The OP is almost entirely wishful thinking with nothing to support it, so it's not worth responding to (especially since OP is long since banned). But the more widely held idea that interpretation of dreams can be beneficial is also bunk imo. At best, it's a vague reflection of recent thoughts and emotions, that also incorporates random synapse firings that bring up entirely arbitrary details to the dream, or outside physical stimuli (which are often incorporated into dreams without us knowing). Examples would include having to pee or hearing thunder. I don't doubt there's SOME explanatory power to dreams, when they deal with things that we're currently preoccupied with. But to pretend that it's explanatory power follows any sort of logic, or somehow goes deeper than our real-life coherent thoughts, is folly.

If you're really concerned, see a licensed psychologist, not a dream interpretation manual.

But they have candy in the lobby, bro. Who are you to tell us no?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But they have candy in the lobby, bro. Who are you to tell us no?

In your dreams!

However, I have solved problems with new designs (work) in my dream, and they worked. However, that is just my brain still working on the problem. Sometimes dreams can be beneficial in that way.

Originally posted by Digi
It's mostly...ascribing meaning after the fact.

Originally posted by Oneness


This is far from the only vaguely spiritualistic belief that can be succinctly refuted with that line. But it applies especially to dream interpretation. I consider dream interpretation to be on the same level as astrology in terms of validity. And anyone who knows me will know what that says about my thoughts.

Originally posted by Digi
This is far from the only vaguely spiritualistic belief that can be succinctly refuted with that line. But it applies especially to dream interpretation. I consider dream interpretation to be on the same level as astrology in terms of validity.

What a mouthful. Yes, a lot about "The Yoga" is based on pre-Darwinistic misconceptions about the nature of the dream state of sleep. REM off and on what, about 5 times per night?

It's easiest to remember the first cycle REM experienced per night as well, which is interesting. You'd think your remember the dreams that occur later on - closer to when you awake - better.



I don't wanna know.

Originally posted by Oneness
I don't wanna know.

It's nothing bad. I basically just think that astrology is intellectual poison. Dream interpretation might not be QUITE so bad, because there are some common sense aspects of it that are likely true enough. But I think both are wildly detrimental to a realistic view of the world, and both are used primarily to dupe the gullible or uninformed out of their money...at least outside of benign websites and such, which are only misleading, not actively malicious.

Psychoanalysis and dream interpretation aren't hard science by any means, but they do serve as good indicators of the mindset of the interpreter, ironically enough.

Astrology and tarot is obvious bollocks.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Astrology and tarot is obvious bollocks. But my personality is the very definition of a Virgo. How can there be any other explanation?

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/ancient-aliens-it-was-aliens.jpg

Aliens altering our DNA and constantly affecting our consciousness is a far more appealing thought than magic star drawings.

You could substitute 'aliens' for 'gypsies' too, depending on your belief bias.

Originally posted by Digi
Dream interpretation might not be QUITE so bad, because there are some common sense aspects of it that are likely true enough.
I think there are obvious easy-no-brainers like:

"I fear my children are going to get killed in horrible accidents, all the time. So I dream about that, often."

No brainer.


"I have been going through tons of job interviews, lately. I just had a dream I was in my underwear in front of people."


That one may not seem like a no-brainer until you realize it is just a feeling of being vulnerable in front of people/strangers. Seems people have more "underwear or naked in front of people" dreams hen they are stressing about and going through interviews.


I've got tons like that. Easy stuff to figure out.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I think there are obvious easy-no-brainers like:

"I fear my children are going to get killed in horrible accidents, all the time. So I dream about that, often."

No brainer.


"I have been going through tons of job interviews, lately. I just had a dream I was in my underwear in front of people."


That one may not seem like a no-brainer until you realize it is just a feeling of being vulnerable in front of people/strangers. Seems people have more "underwear or naked in front of people" dreams hen they are stressing about and going through interviews.


I've got tons like that. Easy stuff to figure out.

Exactly. Like I said, common sense stuff. You're nervous about interviews, so you're having thought about being nervous in front of people or in interviews. I've had dreams about certain characters after, say, binging on a TV show. My thoughts are so ensconced in the medium already that it bleeds into sleep. Same idea.

It's just trying to take it any further than that...that's the problem. Certainly with, say, contacting the dead, but even less supernatural things like pretending it reveals something buried in your psyche that wasn't already apparent.

Personally, the only thing it says about me is that I'm too warm. I only dream - or rather, only remember my dreams - when I'm too hot in my bed. Remembering my dreams is a physiological byproduct of something very explainable, not a window into anything deeper.

Are you by chance a bed-wetter too? That might explain the sudden warmness.

Jus' sayin', bro.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Are you by chance a bed-wetter too? That might explain the sudden warmness.

Jus' sayin', bro.

What's wrong dude? Don't want to be alone?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Are you by chance a bed-wetter too? That might explain the sudden warmness.

Jus' sayin', bro.

Lol. It usually has to do with my gf. It's like sleeping with a damn space heater under the covers. I've learned to regulate myself relative to the outside temperature when it's just me. But she's a variable I've yet to fully account for.

I disagree about astrology.

But only because my cusp is the best a boy could ask for.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Aliens altering our DNA and constantly affecting our consciousness is a far more appealing thought than magic star drawings. I actually do believe it logical.

What if a Type I civilization that can account for 100% of mass {that includes what we believe to be dark matter and energy} from a cosmological constant similar to ours, reconstructed the big bang in a simulation where all operations from the quark up were to scale?

Things go exactly the same, and look, this other planet had the potential for life like us, lets move them from Type 0 to Type I, which is why they might make the stars lined up a certain way and why they might structure a primitive society's experience a certain way relative to the star maps. Astrology. Maybe we're just along for the ride.

Originally posted by Digi
Lol. It usually has to do with my gf. It's like sleeping with a damn space heater under the covers. I've learned to regulate myself relative to the outside temperature when it's just me. But she's a variable I've yet to fully account for.

My girlfriends always had feet of ice, so it was like sleeping next to a cadaver from the knees down. I was the exact opposite.

Originally posted by Oneness
I actually do believe it logical.

What if a Type I civilization that can account for 100% of mass {that includes what we believe to be dark matter and energy} from a cosmological constant similar to ours, reconstructed the big bang in a simulation where all operations from the quark up were to scale?

Things go exactly the same, and look, this other planet had the potential for life like us, lets move them from Type 0 to Type I, which is why they might make the stars lined up a certain way and why they might structure a primitive society's experience a certain way relative to the star maps. Astrology. Maybe we're just along for the ride.

LOLWUT.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
LOLWUT. What do you mean what? You think our cosmos is too complex to be fabricated in cyberspace by a Type I civilization?

How anthropocentric.

AJOVUF-HaDw

FYI, it's called the simulation argument. They're formulating an experiment for it, they have this hypothesis that “The most striking feature…is that the angular distribution of the highest energy components would exhibit cubic symmetry in the rest frame of the lattice, deviating significantly from isotropy,”.

I think this is a peer reviewed article about the up and coming experiment that is entitled "Constraints on the Universe as a Numerical Simulation"

Originally posted by Oneness
FYI, it's called the simulation argument. They're formulating an experiment for it, they have this hypothesis that “ The most striking feature … is that the angular distribution of the highest energy components would exhibit cubic symmetry in the rest frame of the lattice, deviating significantly from isotropy, ”.



When you cut and pasted this you got some bad characters in your post.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
When you cut and pasted this you got some bad characters in your post.
Those are eigenvalues.

Anyway, it makes perfect sense if you think about it.

Humans have humbly looked to the stars for insight for survival for 25,000 years - astrology basically predates anything else, even the Yoga.

The stars are very humbling, and astrology is one very non-anthropocentric form of spirituality.Astrology gives us roles that are mutually beneficial in that they make us all equally relevant they give us all a unique purpose. As Carl Sagan said, the stars "underscore our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another"; even Bruce notes not to be distracted by trivial things when he commands, "It is like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory". Bruce Lee also conveyed how humbling the 'heavens' are to humans when he said that; "Under the Stars, under the Heavens, we are but one family". Bruce Lee and Carl Sagan were very spiritual men, very humble and wise men.

Originally posted by Mindship
Those are eigenvalues.

Thank you! That made my day.

Originally posted by Oneness
Anyway, it makes perfect sense if you think about it.

Humans have humbly looked to the stars for insight for survival for 25,000 years - astrology basically predates anything else, even the Yoga.

The stars are very humbling, and astrology is one very non-anthropocentric form of spirituality.Astrology gives us roles that are mutually beneficial in that they make us all equally relevant they give us all a unique purpose. As Carl Sagan said, the stars "underscore our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another"; even Bruce notes not to be distracted by trivial things when he commands, "It is like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory". Bruce Lee also conveyed how humbling the 'heavens' are to humans when he said that; "Under the Stars, under the Heavens, we are but one family". Bruce Lee and Carl Sagan were very spiritual men, very humble and wise men.

And they both could kick you a$$.

Originally posted by Oneness
What do you mean what? You think our cosmos is too complex to be fabricated in cyberspace by a Type I civilization?

How anthropocentric.

AJOVUF-HaDw

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CKpvaPQHabw/T5OuHLGrWrI/AAAAAAAAAs0/2zKYoOCps7M/s1600/occamsrazor.jpg

We could potentially all be dream-beings of an ant on a far-flung planet in another dimension, Matrix pod-beings, simulations, crafted by deities or random occurrences according to a heavily structured existence which provides no conclusive answers as to being caused.

It's not anthropocentric to be skeptical of explanations that have equal validity as "God did it".

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CKpvaPQHabw/T5OuHLGrWrI/AAAAAAAAAs0/2zKYoOCps7M/s1600/occamsrazor.jpg

We could potentially all be dream-beings of an ant on a far-flung planet in another dimension, Matrix pod-beings, simulations, crafted by deities or random occurrences according to a heavily structured existence which provides no conclusive answers as to being caused.

It's not anthropocentric to be skeptical of explanations that have equal validity as "God did it". Well if you're right, than their experiment will demonstrably falsify the hypothesis that we are simulated creatures.

The scientific hypothesis, by the way, that is a testable relationship between two variables.

You don't have to over-complicate things, science is about crystal smooth, ice-cold simplicity.

But reality isn't crystal smooth, ice-cold simple. Scientific experiments and tests will get us closer to some measure of objective truth, but you'd be wrong to think that any such tests are definitive. The scientific community is always changing, and consensus is difficult on topics approaching this scale. At most, such experiments could lead to the improved likelihood of theory A over theory B, but it's largely irrelevant to the topic at hand here, which is Dreams.

My LOLWUT was in response to your unrelated comment.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
your unrelated comment. My comment was supplementation to my identifying with astrology.

A topic you brought up first.

Originally posted by Oneness
My comment was supplementation to my identifying with astrology.

A topic you brought up first.

No, you replied to Lucien and started talking about alien DNA, when he and I were clearly using the concept for a quick laugh.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No, you replied to Lucien and started talking about alien DNA, when he and I were clearly using the concept for a quick laugh. That was who I quoted, but while you two were writing astrology off as hogwash, I wanted to say why it appeals to me.

And never said anything about humans having alien dna, neither did he. I said it is possible that the universe is a simulation subject to manipulation by whatever intelligence created the program to replicate its own cosmos.

Originally posted by Oneness
That was who I quoted, but while you two were writing astrology off as hogwash, I wanted to say why it appeals to me.

And never said anything about humans having alien dna, neither did he. I said it is possible that the universe is a simulation subject to manipulation by whatever intelligence created the program to replicate its own cosmos. You missed the humor in the juxtaposition. We were speaking mockingly and facetiously, and your immediate reaction to said flippancy was seriousness. Similar topic, but total opposite in attitude and approach--making it essentially unrelated. The sudden contrast was indeed deserving of a LOLWUT.

Originally posted by Oneness
That was who I quoted, but while you two were writing astrology off as hogwash, I wanted to say why it appeals to me.

And never said anything about humans having alien dna, neither did he. I said it is possible that the universe is a simulation subject to manipulation by whatever intelligence created the program to replicate its own cosmos.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
But my personality is the very definition of a Virgo. How can there be any other explanation?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/ancient-aliens-it-was-aliens.jpg

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Aliens altering our DNA and constantly affecting our consciousness is a far more appealing thought than magic star drawings.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
You could substitute 'aliens' for 'gypsies' too, depending on your belief bias.

Some time later, you said this in reply to Lucien's post regarding alien dna being more interesting than astrology, which I have quoted above:

Originally posted by Oneness
I actually do believe it logical.

What if a Type I civilization that can account for 100% of mass {that includes what we believe to be dark matter and energy} from a cosmological constant similar to ours, reconstructed the big bang in a simulation where all operations from the quark up were to scale?

Things go exactly the same, and look, this other planet had the potential for life like us, lets move them from Type 0 to Type I, which is why they might make the stars lined up a certain way and why they might structure a primitive society's experience a certain way relative to the star maps. Astrology. Maybe we're just along for the ride.

http://www.troll.me/images/angry-samuel-l-jackson/english-learn-to-read-it.jpg

Stealth Moose, stop confusing people with facts.

As an aside, although Oney quotes Carl Sagan, he forgets that it was astronomy that Sagan valued. Not astrology. He didn't think too highly of astrology:


ZB88HnlLgZ8

Astrology cannot work because of precession. All of the charts are off by at least one sign.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Astrology cannot work because of precession. All of the charts are off by at least one sign. They're actually not.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
As an aside, although Oney quotes Carl Sagan, he forgets that it was astronomy that Sagan valued. Not astrology. He didn't think too highly of astrology:


ZB88HnlLgZ8

When did I claim "Carl Sagan believes in astrology".

When did I claim I believed in astrology?

I'm agnostic, look me up on facebook.

I said it's possible that religions, especially the first religion (astrology) may have real merit.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Astrology cannot work because of precession. All of the charts are off by at least one sign. We're talking about how star maps helped guide early man, and how astrology gives us all a unique purpose, star locations when astrology was formed are permanent. Precession is irrelevant. Carl Sagan was making an example of the limitations of religion next to empirical data - and making an example of how perspectives change as science builds objective knowledge over the generations.

In fact, it is the culmination of facts gained by earlier generations that allow humans to increase our scientific understanding and our technological sophistication. The fact that homo-sapiens, shrinking brains, increasingly dependent on technology, evolved polar opposite of the smarter, stronger, and more intelligent Neanderthals is indication of intervention. Nature would never predict that the ability to outsource information would be more desirable for evolution than visual-spatial intelligence and physical robustness. The Ice Age is why homo-sapiens survived and Neanderthals did not, in that times of food scarcity humans needed less than half as many calories as the more massive Neanderthals, but mainly it was our ability to produce more delicate pronunciation and broader syllables has increased what we can put into language; thereby allowing us to pass on information to our descendants, outsourcing information through it.

Originally posted by Oneness
I disagree about astrology.

But only because my cusp is the best a boy could ask for.

Originally posted by Oneness
They're actually not.

When the charts where written, the tilt of the Earth was different then today (Or should I say different as in precession). That places the zodiac sign off by at least one sign. Prove me wrong.

Wait, so does this mean I'm not a Capricorn? But how do I explain the extreme similarity? IT MUST BE FATE.

But before that Ice Age, when Homo Erectus became Homo Sapiens in Africa, why would those traits ever come about over the more necessary traits (tool making and physical robustness ) back then, that were selected more then???

I understand why, when those traits were selected, the migrant homo sapiens prevailed over those that had evolved from homo erectus (Neanderthals and others) in Europe and Indonesian areas, but why did they come about in the first place?

That's why I say, intervention is not impossible. However, I am agnostic, preferring the accuracy of science to guide me over the anthropocentric tendencies formed from spirituality.

Art and abstract thinking is what gave Homo Sapiens the edge over Neanderthals. However, there is new evidence that the Neanderthals did not die out, but instead merged with Homo Sapiens.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
When the charts where written, the tilt of the Earth was different then today (Or should I say different as in precession). That places the zodiac sign off by at least one sign. Prove me wrong.

That doesn't effect astrology, just like scientific facts about the earth's age doesn't effect Christianity.
This isn't my point.

Originally posted by Oneness
When did I claim "Carl Sagan believes in astrology".

When did I claim I believed in astrology?

I'm agnostic, look me up on facebook.

I said it's possible that religions, especially the first religion (astrology) may have real merit.

We're talking about how star maps helped guide early man, and how astrology gives us all a unique purpose, star locations when astrology was formed are permanent. Precession is irrelevant. Carl Sagan was making an example of the limitations of religion next to empirical data - and making an example of how perspectives change as science builds objective knowledge over the generations.

In fact, it is the culmination of facts gained by earlier generations that allow humans to increase our scientific understanding and our technological sophistication. The fact that homo-sapiens, shrinking brains, increasingly dependent on technology, evolved polar opposite of the smarter, stronger, and more intelligent Neanderthals is indication of intervention. Nature would never predict that the ability to outsource information would be more desirable for evolution than visual-spatial intelligence and physical robustness. The Ice Age is why homo-sapiens survived and Neanderthals did not, in that times of food scarcity humans needed less than half as many calories as the more massive Neanderthals, but mainly it was our ability to produce more delicate pronunciation and broader syllables has increased what we can put into language; thereby allowing us to pass on information to our descendants, outsourcing information through it.

@Stealthmoose; that's what you get for taking an obvious joke seriously.

I reiterate, when in the quote you said "LOLWUT" to did I claim to believe in astrology!?.

I didn't.

Originally posted by Oneness
But before that Ice Age, when Homo Erectus became Homo Sapiens in Africa, why would those traits ever come about over the more necessary traits (tool making and physical robustness ) back then, that were selected more then???

This tangent comes out of nowhere. What are you saying here?

Neanderthals being better tool makers, if true, doesn't make them necessarily better survivors. In any case, it's been proven recently that a small fraction of European and Asian DNA is neanderthal in origin, so some cultural interchange happened back before recorded time.

Better pain tolerance is not necessarily a better thing. People who are immune to pain often have bad physical shape because they do not pace themselves and run their bodies harder than if they had pain receptors. If you want to be silly about this, women experience pain more frequently and acutely than men, but they can tolerate a lot more pain over the course of childbirth. Pain reception is not in itself something that would cause a species to die out. Natural selection is a complex process, which relies on a species to adapt in many different ways over long periods of time.



Why does anything come about? Each unique species is unique because it has evolved and mutated to a point in which its chromosomes no longer match and can mate with the parent species. That's just the way it works.



Agnosticism is the belief that we can't really know, so making absolute judgments is folly. Science and reason are windows to truth, but agnostics are usually astute enough to avoid making anything seem utterly conclusive, since our knowledge is always developing and changing as a result of developments.

I'm not sure about what your kick is with using anthropocentric a lot, except you're probably in Anthropology 101. The term is not at all as relevant as you are implying to the discussion at hand, and all if this is derailing anyways.

Originally posted by Oneness
That doesn't effect astrology, just like scientific facts about the earth's age doesn't effect Christianity...

That's not true. How do you know what sign you are? You look on a chart. I don't think people who are into astrology have blind faith. Otherwise they wouldn't need charts.

Originally posted by Oneness
That doesn't effect astrology, just like scientific facts about the earth's age doesn't effect Christianity.
This isn't my point.



@Stealthmoose; that's what you get for taking an obvious joke seriously.

I reiterate, when in the quote you said "LOLWUT" to did I claim to believe in astrology!?.

I didn't.

You did. I quoted it above. Your inability to admit your mistakes or dishonesty in communicating with others is your failing, not mine.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Art and abstract thinking is what gave Homo Sapiens the edge over Neanderthals.

We are becoming less and less intelligent due to what we have provided for us, all the resources, outsourced information and scientific understanding we've gained over the years from our more technologically, scientifically primitive, and intellectually cognitive) ancestors. Our modern education system isn't demanding of intellectual creativity by any stretch of the imagination. This advanced society has coddled us, the modern man does not need to be as cognitive from day to day, and evidence suggests we are losing our intellectual capacity because of it. Our craniums and brains are decreasing in size, we're becoming taller, thinner, less robust.



Interbreeding =/= merging totally. Regardless of whatever amount of Neanderthal DNA we still have, 23 chromosomes and our brain structure is different because of that.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I quoted it above.

A, that wasn't the comment you had originally responded to.

B, it was a sarcastic remark.

Originally posted by Oneness
We are becoming less and less intelligent due to what we have provided for us, all the resources, outsourced information and scientific understanding we've gained over the years from our more technologically, scientifically primitive, and intellectually cognitive) ancestors. Our modern education system isn't demanding of intellectual creativity by any stretch of the imagination. This advanced society has coddled us, the modern man does not need to be as cognitive from day to day, and evidence suggests we are losing our intellectual capacity because of it. Our craniums and brains are decreasing in size, we're becoming taller, thinner, less robust.

You modified my post, then replied to the modified post. Your modification was wrong, and sense it wasn't a joke, or fun for all, it was also inappropriate. Please don't do that again.

Originally posted by Oneness
A, that wasn't the comment you had originally responded to.

B, it was a sarcastic remark.

http://pl.memgenerator.pl/mem-image/sure-thing-bro-pl-ffffff

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
doesn't make them necessarily better survivors.

Let's look back at the context of my argument, at that point in time, those traits had been more beneficial to the homo erectus species that both the homo sapiens and Neanderthals evolved from. So it makes me wonder why opposite traits would have been developed in Africa than had been developed in European and Asian areas. That's all it does, and that is my only thesis, not that it proves or disproves anything, just that it's true that these traits shouldn't have been developed.



Not only that, but it shows that Neanderthals either possessed characteristics for survival that proved to allow the procreation with the so-called "superior" homo sapiens. How can this be, if homo sapiens were superior why could they not defend the sanctity of their gene pool?

In fact, after first meeting the Neanderthals they fled to Asia, and then returned around 50,000 years ago, and archaeological evidence indicated that by 30,000 years ago the Neanderthals were all but extinct - showing a direct relation to the Ice Age.

And it makes sense that homo sapiens, who only needed 2000 calories, in contrast to the neanderthals 5000, and who could communicate and collaborate to improve technology over many generations far better than could the Neanderthals who were limited in language capacity, survived the Ice Age.



As opposed to letting your prey run away?



And you don't think the ability to ignore pain to succeed in finding shelter or catching an animal to eat as its advantages?



However, it is unlikely that traits which are deemed irrelevant at the time will get passed on.



I just can't stand that people now a days think they're the shit.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
http://pl.memgenerator.pl/mem-image/sure-thing-bro-pl-ffffff

Okay, first of all, how does an egocentric remark and a smiley support the fact that I was being serious?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You modified my post, then replied to the modified post. Your modification was wrong, and sense it wasn't a joke, or fun for all, it was also inappropriate. Please don't do that again.

The modification of quotes can be a useful device in better communication, especially with hard topics like this. Instead of breaking up the quote further I added a strike and a retort within. I hate having to retype "" and "" every-time I break up a quote. It's easier.

I wasn't attempting to be obnoxious.

Originally posted by Oneness
I literally didn't take away anything you said, the strike and "" were useful in better projecting the information I was trying to get across.

Its actually against the forum rules to modify people quotes. I don't mind when it is a joke, even if it is at my expense.

Originally posted by Oneness
Let's look back at the context of my argument, at that point in time, those traits had been more beneficial to the homo erectus species that both the homo sapiens and Neanderthals evolved from. So it makes me wonder why opposite traits would have been developed in Africa than had been developed in European and Asian areas. That's all it does, and that is my only thesis, not that it proves or disproves anything, just that it's true that these traits shouldn't have been developed.

Okay, but what does this have to do with anything else being discussed in this thread? If you want to really hash out human evolution, you could start a thread easily elsewhere. This is, despite all our derailing efforts, a thread on dream communication. It was funny at first to joke around, but we're approaching 3+ pages of nonsense. If you feel your point has merit, make a thread.



Survival and natural selection implies superior genes for passing on, but remember that species are just as victim to the environment and outside causes as anything else.

The leap of logic from Homo sapiens replacing Neanderthals by virtue of ancient astronauts violates Ockham's Razor so bad I'd have to swear in as a witness in court.



Wait, so you just contradicted yourself here? Or did you have a meandering point that's just not clear? I don't intend to get drawn out into debating something you brought up out of the void. Make a thread.



Homo sapiens developed some of the best distance running in the animal kingdom; this point is a red herring.



Anything we would consider to be "beneficial" is irrelevant if such traits died out ages ago. Again, your initial assertion was that ancient astronauts or a space-faring whatever may have explained the gap between the various pre-modern human sub-species. It's not a very well thought out or explained theory and you've gone nowhere with it.



According to who?



God forbid anyone challenge your publicly available opinion.

Originally posted by Oneness
The modification of quotes can be a useful device in better communication, especially with hard topics like this. Instead of breaking up the quote further I added a strike and a retort within. I hate having to retype "" and "" every-time I break up a quote. It's easier.

I wasn't attempting to be obnoxious.

Replying to reorganized quotes of other people smacks of straw-manning. Some explicit communication might help avoid this in the future.

Actually, Shakya, I should have put the strike there.

Abstract thinking is from the frontal lobe structures, which are larger in homo sapiens than in Neanderthals.

Originally posted by Oneness
Actually, Shakya, I should have put the strike there.

Abstract thinking is from the frontal lobe structures, which are larger in homo sapiens than in Neanderthals.

I said: "Art and abstract thinking is what gave Homo Sapiens the edge over Neanderthals. ..." It sounds like you thought I said the opposite.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I said: "Art and abstract thinking is what gave Homo Sapiens the edge over Neanderthals. ..." It sounds like you thought I said the opposite.

My point is that the technology humans have invented is what a theoretical Type I Civilization, that created the simulation that we think is the universe, would be going for - not us.

Originally posted by Oneness
My point is that the technology humans have invented is what a Type I Civilization that created the simulation that is our cosmos, would be going for, not us.

...and unicorns only dance in the spring time.

Don't condescend me, twerp.

Originally posted by Oneness
Don't condescend me, twerp.

What doe this have to do with the topic of this thread?

I am asking you to stop being obnoxious.

Antagonizing someone is thread derailment.

You and moosey baby have been doing this for three threads.

Then again, being American might be why I don't like either of you. Americans seem to fluster me online because of the way they socialize.

"My point is that the technology humans have invented is what a Type I Civilization that created the simulation that is our cosmos, would be going for, not us. "

is equal to

"...and unicorns only dance in the spring time."

There is nothing condescending, twerp like or obnoxious about that. They are both fantasy stated as if they were facts.

Sorry that you don't get sarcasm.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
They are both fantasy stated as if they were facts.

Maybe my statement was, maybe it wasn't. We have to wait for three experiments that demonstrate three hypotheses:

a, this is a simulated cosmos

b, the program running the simulation has been altered by an intelligence

c, human history is the product of fact b

Asserting that "the final product would not be us" may not yet be a fact but it is an opinion based on scientifically demonstrated objective facts.

It is factual that humans have reached a point of stagnation, and that there's no reason for economic turmoil in the modern world, except for the system being flawed and untenable.

There shouldn't be a reason for economic turmoil because, as empirically demonstrated in the Global Village Construction Set Experiment (this was a peer reviewed experiment, btw), modern civilization has already gained the sufficient productive resources to fulfill all basic human needs, even accounting for a growing population.......

Yet we've been unable to realize a post-scarcity system due to the supposed "realistic group conflict theory", that was demonstrated in the Robbers Cave Experiment.

So our system cannot move past scarcity because it was created by scarcity, basically.

Merging with technology is the only liberation from that. The hypothetical "creators of the universe" are really just a Type I-III, post-scarcity civilization that have already made the conversion to substrate independence or transhumans or more specifically transextra-terrestrials, AI themselves either operating on a silicon substrate or they are an even more advanced form of life as per the transcnesion hypothesis they have transcended substrates more than once - enough times to create a singularity. That requirement the energy throughput of a star, which a Type II Civilizations does possess.

This idea of "Divine Intervention/Providence" to influence earth evolution suggests a non-anthropocentric incentive for ET ranging from Type I-III in the Kardashev scale that did not exist in their universe. Putting a new intelligence on the map of their simulated universe, so to speak.



sigh

Just take what I say as fact, I have something called a sixth-sense; empirical insight, in that the information age has provided me enough resources on the subject matters. In short, I know enough about the relationships and variables that are the culprits to human disparity in particular that I'm generally just correct about certain things. It's extreme scientific literacy, like Wally West always reciting information picked up in high school science.

By being skeptics (which is a good thing) and questioning my insights (which is ill-advised), you two derailed the topic by antagonizing a man plagued by OCD. Hope you're happy.

No, I have not read the holographic universe, although I have heard of it and assume it was inspired by the Simulation Argument; the experiment two pages back is attempting to end that argument.

If you don't believe one side of the simulation argument, that does not falsify the hypothesis, only the experiment linked two pages ago can.

Then why are there no unicorns dancing in the spring?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then why are there no unicorns dancing in the spring? Because you can't distinguish between statements that are scientifically warranted and credible and what statements aren't.

Originally posted by Oneness
Because you can't distinguish between statements that are scientifically warranted and credible and what statements aren't.

Don't dismiss it! Think about it. If we were living in a simulation, there would be unicorns dancing in the spring time.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Don't dismiss it! Think about it. If we were living in a simulation, there would be unicorns dancing in the spring time.

No condescending, obnoxious, or sarcastic remark can help your case.

I've argued against the notion that my statements were irrational.

Now either argue your case, or concede that my statement was rational, right now.

Another comment that isn't composed of credible supportive statements that attempt to discredit the statements made in this this post without resorting to sarcasm or obnoxious "American-style" behavior will be a concession.

Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Oneness
Concession accepted.

Whatever blows your skirt up.

You think I'm insane now?

Because of...what exactly?

Did I claim to have objective knowledge before the fact? No, I claimed objectivity to human stagnation, and implied the possibility of the simulation hypothesis' correctness and a non-anthropocentric incentive for human evolution.

You think I was being illogical, yet all you can rely on to argue that case are your culturally developed obnoxious tendencies.

After this brain injury, it was nearly 3 years ago. I haven't had a dream...kinky or otherwise (nightmares) NO!

My first brain injury....that was 12 years ago, I had dreams. Most of them were kinky sex dreams...seriously.

I sleep well. About 6 hours a night and then a pee, it's usually at 5am and then I pee for a minute ...maybe more! No s**t.

Wilco gets points for being on-topic. Also, I usually have some interesting dreams that I don't want to wake up from (less erotic and more exotic) but then Troll Bladder decides it is time to wake up well before my alarm.

Last night, I was protecting this Swedish girl who had built some kind of modifiable bungalow out in the middle of the woods from her Deliverance inspired neighbors alongside my father.

I had pumpkin pie before bed; clearly this is the culprit. Or, I could take the alternate stance and say this was a divinely inspired message, because when I hear hoof beats I immediately think zebras, not horses.

I can't even describe the dream I had two nights ago.

Like, I remember so little about it at this point and my dreams are usually all over the place. I remembered last nights dream this morning but now it's gone, or I'm having retrieval cue failure.

Two nights ago was a 12 hour night after a 48 hour day. The episodes in my hypnogogic hallucinations were many and a lot of things were happening. In my dreams things aren't the same as they are in every day life. Like the whole environment is altered.

When I stopped taking geodon my dreams stopped being lucid. When I take focalin I only maintain small bits and pieces. Not enough to actually remember it as it was.

It's funny how that works. I'm actually more productive and skilled without that concept-dream-memory.

It could be that you are thinking about him a lot and that's why your subconscious mind chooses to incorporate him into you dreams. Despite the fact that this doesn't reveal evidence that you are actually talking to his spirit, these moments should be cherished just the same

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Troll Bladder Oh man what an image.

TROLL BLADER: OHAI I HEARD YOU WANT QUALITY SLEEP. LOLNOPE.

Originally posted by Oneness
You think I'm insane now?

Because of...what exactly?

Did I claim to have objective knowledge before the fact? No, I claimed objectivity to human stagnation, and implied the possibility of the simulation hypothesis' correctness and a non-anthropocentric incentive for human evolution.

You think I was being illogical, yet all you can rely on to argue that case are your culturally developed obnoxious tendencies.

No! You just pushed me beyond my "give-a-shit" line.

I don't really give a shit about it either, haha.