Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

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Why?

Sounded like it was a good thread.


I want to know more!

There's something wrong with the link, I url shortened it now, should work:

http://goo.gl/CgeV

Wow, just wow.

Although the comments are almost as stupid. Particularly the second person who gets offended at the use of the term "sissie".

Originally posted by Omega Vision


Wow, just wow.

Although the comments are almost as stupid. Particularly the second person who gets offended at the use of the term "sissie".

She got a point actually. "Sissy" is one of the many words used to imply gender differences, usually used to insult boys as too feminine. Of course most people do not use it out of sexism, but it is something to consider, and perhaps try to eradicate in ones own use of language.

Why should they keep a cheerleader who won't cheer for the players?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Why should they keep a cheerleader who won't cheer for the players?

They should show some human decency in the treatment of their students. Going by the article(s) they have been very inconsiderate outside of the cheerleading issue, while they've been far more forgiving with her assaulter. Additional, one small cheer should not really be a deal breaker, and they should be looked down upon by the community for their vile behavior, even if it is legally within their right to deny her to continue being a cheerleader for any reason.

Originally posted by Bardock42
They should show some human decency in the treatment of their students. Going by the article(s) they have been very inconsiderate outside of the cheerleading issue, while they've been far more forgiving with her assaulter. Additional, one small cheer should not really be a deal breaker, and they should be looked down upon by the community for their vile behavior, even if it is legally within their right to deny her to continue being a cheerleader for any reason.

I see, she just refused to shout his name during the cheering. I thought she'd refused much more than that. Still, I can see why they wouldn't want a cheerleader who was less than enthusiastic.

The "advice" they gave her is much more sickening to me than kicking her off the team.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I see, she just refused to shout his name during the cheering. I thought she'd refused much more than that. Still, I can see why they wouldn't want a cheerleader who was less than enthusiastic.

The "advice" they gave her is much more sickening to me than kicking her off the team.

I agree.

However I think one can draw a line between being less than enthusiastic to cheer for ones school vs. ones rapist. I also think people could use their common sense a bit more at times, especially in schools where blindly bureaucratic decisions seem to be very prevalent (though in this case it seems more like heartless opportunism).

To be fair that's all from the two articles I read, maybe there were additional circumstances.

The girl isnt cheering for the person but rather the team. If she doesn't want to cheer she shouldn't be a cheerleader. Since when do Cheerleaders care about the sport or team they're cheering for anyway? I doubt cheerleaders even know what sport they're cheering for half the time. This was a bad display of team play and immaturity. She even tried to sue the school lol

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
The girl isnt cheering for the person but rather the team. If she doesn't want to cheer she shouldn't be a cheerleader. Since when do Cheerleaders care about the sport or team they're cheering for anyway? I doubt cheerleaders even know what sport they're cheering for half the time. This was a bad display of team play and immaturity. She even tried to sue the school lol

lol just cause she was raped and didn't want to cheer for her rapist that got the royal treatment, while she's been advised to keep a low profile and generally to act ashamed, lol, what a *****, lol

is the ******* being prosecuted?

Originally posted by 753
is the ******* being prosecuted?

He plea bargained to an assault charge. No jail time. Community service apparently. 2500$ Fine and anger management.

A fair deal for attacking and gang raping a young girl.

unbelievable

I hope karma chews their ass off

how is her getting kicked off of the cheer-squad the issue here?

like, of the long list of terrible things that have happened to this girl, being kicked out of a club for not doing what is expected of her seems the least newsworthy...

Originally posted by inimalist
how is her getting kicked off of the cheer-squad the issue here?

like, of the long list of terrible things that have happened to this girl, being kicked out of a club for not doing what is expected of her seems the least newsworthy...

Well, it definitely makes the best story. Raped girl having to choose between cheering for the rapist or get kicked of the team...that's sophie's choice-esque.

Originally posted by 753
unbelievable

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, it definitely makes the best story. Raped girl having to choose between cheering for the rapist or get kicked of the team...that's sophie's choice-esque.

how about: why do we think it is healthy for a rape victim to be in such constant, and symbollically subordinate, contact with her assailant?

Like, don't get me wrong, her choices in life shouldn't be reduced because she is a victim, but we shouldn't be looking at this as though her participation on the cheer team was a good thing, given the circumstances.

Why didn't the state transfer her to a different school?

idk, I know that isn't the argument you are making, but it seems like this is just the obvious outcome to a series of very poor decisions on everyone's part, and maybe HS gets to be excused for hers, because she is the victim of one of the most traumatic experiences a person can go through.

Man, you have a lot to learn about modern media


No, but I agree with you, like Sym and I talked about, the other things are much worse, kicking her off the High School team is surely one of the least things and perhaps in some way justifiable.

Though I don't think H.S. is at fault for anything, she has to deal with the cards she's been given, and to try to go on with her life, including the things she likes to do, without being intimidated by her rapist or the school who seems to try to cover it up in some ways is a rather brave thing to do, imo.

There seems to be a lot of idiots running schools these days.

It's pretty amazing that the guy got such a slap on the wrist for his crime, too. It makes you wonder who are the people overpopulating the prisons if rapists get off with community service. And murderers, I dunno, they probably have to write an apology letter or something. How annoying that must be.

Also, this guy shouldn't be on a team. He's likely to rape/kill one of the opposing players or a ref after a bad call.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Man, you have a lot to learn about modern media

wait, you mean a nuanced discussion about the realities rape victimes endure isn't something that will catch people's attention and make them watch CNN? it needs to be sensational?

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, but I agree with you, like Sym and I talked about, the other things are much worse, kicking her off the High School team is surely one of the least things and perhaps in some way justifiable.

Though I don't think H.S. is at fault for anything, she has to deal with the cards she's been given, and to try to go on with her life, including the things she likes to do, without being intimidated by her rapist or the school who seems to try to cover it up in some ways is a rather brave thing to do, imo.

oh, I agree, she is certainly acting in a way that non-psychologists would define as "brave" (I guess we psychologists might call it brave too, just with much less enthusiasm).

I would question whether or not "bravery" is the appropriate reaction, when it has her, on a daily basis, either passing this individual and his friends in the hall at school or cheering for him indirectly. Like, highschool is bad enough.

To me, I guess, it just seems like someone should have sat her down and been like, "look, you want to cheer, we will figure it out, but it isn't going to be for him, and you aren't going to have to see him at school ever again". Ultimately, he should be the one who has to change schools or go to jail, but even ignoring that cluster****, trying to have everyone act like things are normal (and by everyone, I mean her peers, coaches, teachers, etc, who all know) is probably the worst possible thing for her.

I mean, look at how this must seem to her now. Who does she think she can go to for help?

Originally posted by inimalist
oh, I agree, she is certainly acting in a way that non-psychologists would define as "brave" (I guess we psychologists might call it brave too, just with much less enthusiasm).

I would question whether or not "bravery" is the appropriate reaction, when it has her, on a daily basis, either passing this individual and his friends in the hall at school or cheering for him indirectly. Like, highschool is bad enough.

To me, I guess, it just seems like someone should have sat her down and been like, "look, you want to cheer, we will figure it out, but it isn't going to be for him, and you aren't going to have to see him at school ever again". Ultimately, he should be the one who has to change schools or go to jail, but even ignoring that cluster****, trying to have everyone act like things are normal (and by everyone, I mean her peers, coaches, teachers, etc, who all know) is probably the worst possible thing for her.

I mean, look at how this must seem to her now. Who does she think she can go to for help?

I agree. That's what I meant though, she's in a shitty situation and tries to make the best out of it. It's hard though, I mean changing schools, leaving all your friends behind, etc. is not a nice thing to do, it may be better for her in some ways, on the other hand it might be just as bad or worse...either way, I don't think anyone can tell what the perfect thing for her would be, what we can definitely say though is that what the coach, the principal and the superintendent have done is the wrong thing and (to use some layman's terms again if you don't mind) ****ing despicable.

Originally posted by inimalist
wait, you mean a nuanced discussion about the realities rape victimes endure isn't something that will catch people's attention and make them watch CNN? it needs to be sensational?

The state of the American media in specific is a sad, sad affair.

Originally posted by BackFire
It's pretty amazing that the guy got such a slap on the wrist for his crime, too. It makes you wonder who are the people overpopulating the prisons if rapists get off with community service.

I bet they forced him to do maitenence at a women's trauma house

Originally posted by BackFire
It's pretty amazing that the guy got such a slap on the wrist for his crime, too. It makes you wonder who are the people overpopulating the prisons if rapists get off with community service.

Stoners

Originally posted by Bardock42
I agree. That's what I meant though, she's in a shitty situation and tries to make the best out of it. It's hard though, I mean changing schools, leaving all your friends behind, etc. is not a nice thing to do, it may be better for her in some ways, on the other hand it might be just as bad or worse...either way, I don't think anyone can tell what the perfect thing for her would be, what we can definitely say though is that what the coach, the principal and the superintendent have done is the wrong thing and (to use some layman's terms again if you don't mind) ****ing despicable.

I totally get that, and it is very easy to sympathize with her because of it. I guess, ya, I'm not trying to say she has done anything wrong or that we shouldn't commend her for.

And ya, the question becomes then, what does she do? does she live as if she can't do the things she loves or is she forced to pretend this stuff never happened to her? god, I'm getting like vicerally angry here, this poor girl... like seriously, how did they let it get to this? Is the basketball coach/school administration really such a **** up? did they think a gang-rape was going to just get "swept under the rug" and "bygones" were going to be "bygones".

Originally posted by Bardock42
Stoners

stoners are more, negligently unattentive, rather than malisciously retarded

Originally posted by inimalist
I bet they forced him to do maitenence at a women's trauma house That wouldn't be a suprise.

I know someone (I don't want to call him a friend) who shot his GF with a gas gun straight to the head, she was screaming like it's the end of days after that she went to the police and told them someone attcked her, but the neighbors must have called the cops cause they already knew what was going on and told her to tell the truth the end of the story: Her punishment was worse than the one of her boyfriend cause the lied to the police...

Originally posted by inimalist
stoners are more, negligently unattentive, rather than malisciously retarded

Haha, I meant stoners are the ones overcrowding the prisons.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
That wouldn't be a suprise.

I know someone (I don't want to call him a friend) who shot his GF with a gas gun straight to the head, she was screaming like it's the end of days after that she went to the police and told them someone attcked her, but the neighbors must have called the cops cause they already knew what was going on and told her to tell the truth the end of the story: Her punishment was worse than the one of her boyfriend cause the lied to the police...

my ex had a guy try to break her door down with a baseball bat and assault her in her dorm.

the university tried to hide it, and got pissed she went to the police. The police, who according to her were actually very helpful, were able to get the guy sent to anger management.

I think there are members of the police who would, if they were able to, castrate any man who abused a woman. however, I don't think the system is set up to deal with domestic violence in an effective way.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Haha, I meant stoners are the ones overcrowding the prisons.

vote yes on prop 19!

Originally posted by inimalist
my ex had a guy try to break her door down with a baseball bat and assault her in her dorm.

the university tried to hide it, and got pissed she went to the police. The police, who according to her were actually very helpful, were able to get the guy sent to anger management.

I think there are members of the police who would, if they were able to, castrate any man who abused a woman. however, I don't think the system is set up to deal with domestic violence in an effective way.

I think one of the issues is that it tends to be the attacker's words against the attackee's. Though also the attitudes towards rape victims and the stigma and the shame that comes with it in society.

Originally posted by inimalist
vote yes on prop 19!

I'm German....and in Germany.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think one of the issues is that it tends to be the attacker's words against the attackee's. Though also the attitudes towards rape victims and the stigma and the shame that comes with it in society.

oh, totally, there are lots of degrees and nuances. there is a lot more to that story that sort of plays to how people can construe her as not simply the victim of some idiot.

Its just sad, like, how many of us know stories like these?

Originally posted by Bardock42
I'm German....and in Germany.

but, if you hope enough, it has to happen

their govenor is also Austrian, so I think you are just trying to cop out here

Originally posted by inimalist
oh, totally, there are lots of degrees and nuances. there is a lot more to that story that sort of plays to how people can construe her as not simply the victim of some idiot.

Its just sad, like, how many of us know stories like these?



but, if you hope enough, it has to happen

their govenor is also Austrian, so I think you are just trying to cop out here

The numbers are horrible in western countries. But I saw a documentary about South Africa sometime, where girls apparently have a better chance of being raped than graduating high school. 1 in 2 vs. 1 in 3 and it's just insane.

I think we need to think through our attitudes towards rape though and women in general. Rape jokes and ideas of loose girls who are just asking for it, etc. are a big part of the problem.

Originally posted by inimalist
but, if you hope enough, it has to happen

their govenor is also Austrian, so I think you are just trying to cop out here

It is true that I'm all talk hmm

Originally posted by Bardock42
The numbers are horrible in western countries. But I saw a documentary about South Africa sometime, where girls apparently have a better chance of being raped than graduating high school. 1 in 2 vs. 1 in 3 and it's just insane.

I've heard news (either DemocracyNow! or Bill Moyers Report) where it is claimed gang-rape is a type of male bonding in South Africa

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think we need to think through our attitudes towards rape though and women in general. Rape jokes and ideas of loose girls who are just asking for it, etc. are a big part of the problem.

that is so true. the problem exists for women as well. For some reason, women tend to view assault as their own fault, and are often very confused about their own feelings toward a rape.

The fact that most rapes are perpetrated by someone who you know makes this all the more difficult.

Originally posted by inimalist


Why didn't the state transfer her to a different school?


Way wrong question.

Why didn't the state transfer HIM to a different school? Like, juvy? Assault is still a crime, especially with it in his record that the assault charge was actually a lesser charge than first wanted.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Way wrong question.

Why didn't the state transfer HIM to a different school? Like, juvy? Assault is still a crime, especially with it in his record that the assault charge was actually a lesser charge than first wanted.

I do not like the plea bargaining system either.

Originally posted by inimalist
I've heard news (either DemocracyNow! or Bill Moyers Report) where it is claimed gang-rape is a type of male bonding in South Africa



that is so true. the problem exists for women as well. For some reason, women tend to view assault as their own fault, and are often very confused about their own feelings toward a rape.

The fact that most rapes are perpetrated by someone who you know makes this all the more difficult.

Well, women just like men are brought up in this society, it may be easier for them to understand the problems women face, but they are just as much indoctrinated to view it as the norm.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Way wrong question.

Why didn't the state transfer HIM to a different school? Like, juvy? Assault is still a crime, especially with it in his record that the assault charge was actually a lesser charge than first wanted.

true, though I addressed this either in the post you quoted or the ones immediatly following it. it was more of an appeal that the school do anything, rather than hoping it would blow over

LOL @ male cheerleaders.

Originally posted by Bardock42
to your new avatar, my favorite show at the moment.

Originally posted by Bardock42
lol just cause she was raped and didn't want to cheer for her rapist that got the royal treatment, while she's been advised to keep a low profile and generally to act ashamed, lol, what a *****, lol


I'm just saying. What do you expect to happen when you join an activity that requires you to do something and you refuse to do it?

LoL @ Texas.

Rakheem Bolton, bet you he's black. Girl should have insisted he tried to convert her to Islam instead of gang-rape, they probably would have hung him.

crylaugh

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
I'm just saying. What do you expect to happen when you join an activity that requires you to do something and you refuse to do it?

Depends on the circumstances.


Say I was raped by a guy and a very small part of the activity would include ...say cheer for just that guy....I'd probably expect them to cut me some slack. That the answer you were looking for? Probably could have guessed from my earlier posts.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
I'm just saying. What do you expect to happen when you join an activity that requires you to do something and you refuse to do it?
Well I suppose unless you have extraordinary circumstances (like say, the guy you refuse to cheer raped you or something like that) you can expect to get in trouble.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL @ Texas.

Rakheem Bolton, bet you he's black. Girl should have insisted he tried to convert her to Islam instead of gang-rape, they probably would have hung him.

I lol'd for real

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL @ Texas.

Rakheem Bolton, bet you he's black. Girl should have insisted he tried to convert her to Islam instead of gang-rape, they probably would have hung him.

That's exactly what I thought when I read Rakheem. And god those girls look 16 or something.

I would've killed that piece of ####!

Originally posted by the ninjak
That's exactly what I thought when I read Rakheem.

Racist!

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
I'm just saying. What do you expect to happen when you join an activity that requires you to do something and you refuse to do it?

I actually tend to agree with your sentiment, if we only look at the school's actions in a very narrow perspective.

However, her being put in the position where it was "cheer for your rapist or don't do something you love" sort of, to me at least, signifies that the school/state didn't do enough in the first place to deal with the actual offense.

Sure, she didn't follow cheer procedure, however, up until that point, we have a complete dereliction of responsibility from the state, the school, and frankly this girl's family, to protect her and provide a safe, non-toxic environment, for her to cheer in.

Like, put this in a work place. A woman would have a legitimate suit (I think the term is toxic environment) if she were forced to work with her former rapist.

Originally posted by inimalist
I actually tend to agree with your sentiment, if we only look at the school's actions in a very narrow perspective.

However, her being put in the position where it was "cheer for your rapist or don't do something you love" sort of, to me at least, signifies that the school/state didn't do enough in the first place to deal with the actual offense.

Sure, she didn't follow cheer procedure, however, up until that point, we have a complete dereliction of responsibility from the state, the school, and frankly this girl's family, to protect her and provide a safe, non-toxic environment, for her to cheer in.

Like, put this in a work place. A woman would have a legitimate suit (I think the term is toxic environment) if she were forced to work with her former rapist.

Unfortunately the school was in a very awkward position that made changing the environment like that hard. The boy wasn't convicted of rape, he was convicted of assault. Yeah, he probably raped her but the school can't get rid of people because they're accused of raping someone, that would be disastrous.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Unfortunately the school was in a very awkward position that made changing the environment like that hard. The boy wasn't convicted of rape, he was convicted of assault. Yeah, he probably raped her but the school can't get rid of people because they're accused of raping someone, that would be disastrous.

well, I see your point, but there are degrees here. I'm not saying the school has the right to kick the guy out, but there could have been more accomodation than not doing anything. My issue seems to be that everyone thought the best course of action was to sweep it under the rug, which almost necessitiates the situation the girl eventually found herself in.

I agree its akward, but I tend to think there would be more sympathy for the school if they erred on the side of the victim, rather than the jock sporto

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Unfortunately the school was in a very awkward position that made changing the environment like that hard. The boy wasn't convicted of rape, he was convicted of assault. Yeah, he probably raped her but the school can't get rid of people because they're accused of raping someone, that would be disastrous.

Correct, as far as the faculty board is concerned, he's not a rapist as per the law; he just assaulted another student at the school.

But punishing her for not cheering her assailant, on top of the "sweep under the rug" angle; it's easy to see that they're a bunch of assholes more concerned with how well their sport teams do and than mental/physical health of a student. There's probably something illegal there too, the favoritism of one student over the over.

edit: This guy will rape again, Texas just showed him that he can rape and get away with it, as long as he can dribble and shoot a ball well; he's likely too stupid to not try and dodge another bullet.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Unfortunately the school was in a very awkward position that made changing the environment like that hard. The boy wasn't convicted of rape, he was convicted of assault. Yeah, he probably raped her but the school can't get rid of people because they're accused of raping someone, that would be disastrous.

Actually if I read that correctly, the school took advantage of a technicality in which courts were changed during the proceedings to let him back in to play, which is when that incident happened. Not that I think it matters, even if it was assault, even if it just was an accusation there is no need to enforce such a small thing.

Additionally, one girl not having cheer for you is perhaps the tiniest of suffering a person can experience, if even that. Being thrown out of your team, being ostracized and bullied...that's a different scale. You are not delivering judgment by accommodating both sides to the best degree.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Depends on the circumstances.


Say I was raped by a guy and a very small part of the activity would include ...say cheer for just that guy....I'd probably expect them to cut me some slack. That the answer you were looking for? Probably could have guessed from my earlier posts.

Right, because the world stops when a cheerleader is indifferent on her moral integrity. So, we're supposed to change the rules for her. What the hell else would the girl go if she isn't cheering...,watch the game? Yeah, i want to join the pittsburgh Steelers but i don't want to have to play football because i might break a nail. I guess i can be the waterboy, right?

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Right, because the world stops when a cheerleader is indifferent on her moral integrity. So, we're supposed to change the rules for her. What the hell else would the girl go if she isn't cheering...,watch the game? Yeah, i want to join the pittsburgh Steelers but i don't want to have to play football because i might break a nail. I guess i can be the waterboy, right?

...d-did you not read the article by chance?

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Right, because the world stops when a cheerleader is indifferent on her moral integrity. So, we're supposed to change the rules for her. What the hell else would the girl go if she isn't cheering...,watch the game? Yeah, i want to join the pittsburgh Steelers but i don't want to have to play football because i might break a nail. I guess i can be the waterboy, right?
It's not like she refused to cheer, she just elected not to yell the name of her rapist when he went for free throws.

Would you honestly do any different in her shoes?