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Fight to ko or death

Adam rips him in half

Black Adam doesn't have time to deal with a lightweight like Superskrull, he gets Osiris to do it, while he does important things.

How is Adam going to find SS when he turns invisible?

Black Adam 10/10

By smell?

SS has been beaten by less

Teth stomps.

whats the strength lvl that SS has held back with his shields?

Originally posted by KingD19
Black Adam doesn't have time to deal with a lightweight like Superskrull, he gets Osiris to do it, while he does important things. This.

BA would win, but if SS fought smart he could make Adam work for it and could probably take a couple.

He may make him earn his victories, but SS isn't beating Adam.

Adam bites his leg off.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Adam bites his leg off. Thats not all he'll bite off.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Thats not all he'll bite off. His Ultron mask?

Originally posted by batdude123
He may make him earn his victories, but SS isn't beating Adam.
IDK, I could see the force field in the brain trick working at least a couple of times out of 10.

Originally posted by darthgoober
IDK, I could see the force field in the brain trick working at least a couple of times out of 10.

The tesseract bomb showing lends credence to the idea that it wouldn't work.

Also, if we're going to give SS the benefit of tactics he never uses in battle, it'd be a little hypocritical not to do so for Teth.

Black Adam wins 10/10 via magic-drenched fists before SS can react.

Originally posted by batdude123
The tesseract bomb showing lends credence to the idea that it wouldn't work.

Also, if we're going to give SS the benefit of tactics he never uses in battle, it'd be a little hypocritical not to do so for Teth.

Black Adam wins 10/10 via magic-drenched fists before SS can react. Except that's actually a tactic BA applies.

pretty sure SS has used the force field inside ppl in the past.. once was when some alien dude that questioned him iirc

Originally posted by batdude123
The tesseract bomb showing lends credence to the idea that it wouldn't work.

Also, if we're going to give SS the benefit of tactics he never uses in battle, it'd be a little hypocritical not to do so for Teth.

Black Adam wins 10/10 via magic-drenched fists before SS can react.
I'm unfamiliar with the tesseract bomb thing, so I can't really speak on that.

He's used the tactic before so you can't really say it's something he never does.

Originally posted by King Castle
pretty sure SS has used the force field inside ppl in the past.. once was when some alien dude that questioned him iirc

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Except that's actually a tactic BA applies.

/thread

Originally posted by darthgoober
He's used the tactic before so you can't really say it's something he never does.



One time. uhuh

Originally posted by batdude123
One time. uhuh
Well if homeboy knows of him doing it during an interrogation he's done it at least twice since he's doing here in combat...

http://img209.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=56722_Nova_17_9Zone-Megan4_pg12_122_15lo.jpg

And even if he's remembering wrong and that's the only time SS has done it, there's a big difference between a character doing something once and them never doing it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well if homeboy knows of him doing it during an interrogation he's done it at least twice since he's doing here in combat...

http://img209.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=56722_Nova_17_9Zone-Megan4_pg12_122_15lo.jpg

And even if he's remembering wrong and that's the only time SS has done it, there's a big difference between a character doing something once and them never doing it.

There's also a big difference between "non-CIS" and using a one-time feat that hasn't been duplicated before or since. How many appearances has Super Skrull had? Enough for me to say that the idea of him gaining a couple of wins/10 over BA using this tactic is hilarious.

Not that it'd work, or that he'd get the chance, mind you...

i see SS being able to hold up his shields for a lil while at least that's my opinion i dont have scans although i am sure there are out there to solidify my opinion...

i can see SS goin invisible and making the fight more interesting and greatly increasing the odds for SS

Originally posted by batdude123
There's also a big difference between "non-CIS" and using a one-time feat that hasn't been duplicated before or since. How many appearances has Super Skrull had? Enough for me to say that the idea of him gaining a couple of wins/10 over BA using this tactic is hilarious.

Not that it'd work, or that he'd get the chance, mind you...
Wait so you're saying that it's not even CIS that prevents SS from using the bubble in the brain thing, but that he actually lacks the ability ...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait so you're saying that it's not even CIS that prevents SS from using the bubble in the brain thing, but that he actually lacks the ability ...

That's not at all what I said.

Originally posted by batdude123
That's not at all what I said.
Well you're talking there being a difference between there being no CIS and using a one time feat, so if you're not saying that he can't do it what are you saying?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait so you're saying that it's not even CIS that prevents SS from using the bubble in the brain thing, but that he actually lacks the ability ...
He's saying that CIS merely being off doesn't automatically mean that a character will use all his powers to their logical extent.

I know that's a difficult concept for a Surfer fan to grasp.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's saying that CIS merely being off doesn't automatically mean that a character will use all his powers to their logical extent.

I know that's a difficult concept for a Surfer fan to grasp.
Ah but CIS being off DOES mean just that. CIS at it's core represents a character being stupid, that means if it's a no CIS situation that the character isn't stupid anymore. If Absorbing Man is better at math in a thread that's no CIS, I'm betting that he's better with his powers too...

"No CIS" is the stipulation that should prompt us to look beyond what's strickly appeared on panel and venture into the logical extrapolation of a characters abilities because we never SEE the characters in a No CIS situation on panel.

Again, you're confusing "No CIS/Going all out" with "I control the character's every move" like in a tourney.

Originally posted by darthgoober
If Absorbing Man is better at math in a thread that's no CIS,
.
No it's not. No CIS doesn't give you attributes you wouldn't have to begin with, it just removes personality flaws and irons out retard moments.

You fail to understand the point of CIS. It's not an all around intelligence boost.

BA ftw

Originally posted by batdude123
Again, you're confusing "No CIS/Going all out" with "I control the character's every move" like in a tourney.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
No it's not. No CIS doesn't give you attributes you wouldn't have to begin with, it just removes personality flaws and irons out retard moments.

You fail to understand the point of CIS. It's not an all around intelligence boost.

Originally posted by Badabing
CIS off means any power that a character has shown more than 2 or 3 times is okay to use. There are no self limitations. Essentially a poster can control their actions, sort of like a tourny, as long as it's still within the character's power set and has been shown.

That means Supes could wtfspeedblitz and Thor could absorb any energy form that's been shown.

Starscream, I'm not sure why you jumped in the middle of a debate just to flame bait/troll but that needs to stop.

Naija Boy and Kris, you both need to calm down and stop bashing.
And before you guys get hung up on the two or three times thing, he's talking about using a power(such as force fields), not the application of the power.

I stopped reading after...

Originally posted by Badabing
CIS off means any power that a character has shown more than 2 or 3 times is okay to use.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And before you guys get hung up on the two or three times thing, he's talking about using a power(such as force fields), not the application of the power.

Semantics.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And before you guys get hung up on the two or three times thing, he's talking about using a power(such as force fields), not the application of the power.
"Application of the power" is incredibly vague.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's saying that CIS merely being off doesn't automatically mean that a character will use all his powers to their logical extent.

I know that's a difficult concept for a Surfer fan to grasp.



a character still has to set some sort of precedent for using the tactic you're arguing for.

it isn't tourney style, and i swear i'm gonna stab bada in the face for this...

Win.

Originally posted by batdude123
I stopped reading after...





Semantics.
So SS hasn't used his force field 2 or 3 times?

Also, you do realize that you just addressed something that came AFTER you said you stopped reading, right?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
"Application of the power" is incredibly vague.
Put it this way, if BA's shown the appropriate levels of super speed 2 or 3 times, he can speedblitz in a no CIS fight regardless of his frequency of doing so in comics.

Originally posted by -Pr-


a character still has to set some sort of precedent for using the tactic you're arguing for.

it isn't tourney style, and i swear i'm gonna stab bada in the face for this...
But we're not talking about something without a precedent because it's something SS's done before.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So SS hasn't used his force field 2 or 3 times?

Originally posted by batdude123
Win.

Also, I thought I'd point out that "No CIS" isn't actually a stipulation in this thread, that's just something that batdude and I got sidetracked on. That's why I said that I could see the trick working a couple of times out of 10 rather than something like batdudes counter pitch of "Black Adam wins 10/10 via magic-drenched fists before SS can react.".

BA flies at SS and he dies

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
BA flies at SS and he dies
Thor's had too tough a time with the guy in melee for me to buy BA winning that easily.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
BA flies at SS and he dies BA dies?

Originally posted by darthgoober
But we're not talking about something without a precedent because it's something SS's done before.

how many times? how consistently?

Originally posted by -Pr-
how many times? how consistently?
Once for sure in combat that I know of, and homeboy said he knew of once during an interrogation. Nowhere near enough to justify him using it for the majority against anyone in a thread featuring CIS, but enough to justify him using it occasionally in a normal thread and often in a CIS free thread.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Once for sure in combat that I know of, and homeboy said he knew of once during an interrogation. Nowhere near enough to justify him using it for the majority against anyone in a thread featuring CIS, but enough to justify him using it occasionally in a normal thread and often in a CIS free thread.

so nothing that's going to sway the majority, then?

Originally posted by -Pr-
so nothing that's going to sway the majority, then?
In this thread, Hell no. I made that pretty clear even at the start...

Originally posted by darthgoober
BA would win, but if SS fought smart he could make Adam work for it and could probably take a couple.
Originally posted by batdude123
He may make him earn his victories, but SS isn't beating Adam.
Originally posted by darthgoober
IDK, I could see the force field in the brain trick working at least a couple of times out of 10.

He's done it once on panel in how many appearances?

Originally posted by batdude123
He's done it once on panel in how many appearances?
Does it matter when we're talking about an infrequent use in a thread featuring CIS or in a thread that's completely CIS free?

Think about it like this, how many times has Supes used his "aura vision" in his far greater number of appearances? If it's only two or three times, do you refuse to recognize his ability to do so in a thread where it's actually relevant?

But just so we're clear, what are you actually arguing here? That SS lacks the ability to create force fields inside of someone, that he lacks the inclination, or that he simply shouldn't be allowed to do so?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Does it matter when we're talking about an infrequent use in a thread featuring CIS or in a thread that's completely CIS free?

Think about it like this, how many times has Supes used his "aura vision" in his far greater number of appearances? If it's only two or three times, do you refuse to recognize his ability to do so in a thread where it's actually relevant?

But just so we're clear, what are you actually arguing here? That SS lacks the ability to create force fields inside of someone, that he lacks the inclination, or that he simply shouldn't be allowed to do so?

Think about it like this, you don't see anybody in a CIS-free thread argue that Superman is going to vibrate his opponent out of existence, or T-Vo him into oblivion (at least, not anymore). A character going all-out with no-CIS doesn't mean we cherry-pick obscure feats that are hardly, if ever duplicated.

So again, and this time you've got a mod reiterating the point, "No CIS" =/= "I control every move the character makes tourney-style."

Teth should win at least 8/10.

Originally posted by batdude123
Think about it like this, you don't see anybody in a CIS-free thread argue that Superman is going to vibrate his opponent out of existence, or T-Vo him into oblivion (at least, not anymore). A character going all-out with no-CIS doesn't mean we cherry-pick obscure feats that are hardly, if ever duplicated.

So again, and this time you've got a mod reiterating the point, "No CIS" =/= "I control every move the character makes tourney-style."
In case you haven't noticed, I posted a mods actually ruling on the matter and pr didn't seem to have a problem with what I was saying once he realized what it was...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Once for sure in combat that I know of, and homeboy said he knew of once during an interrogation. Nowhere near enough to justify him using it for the majority against anyone in a thread featuring CIS, but enough to justify him using it occasionally in a normal thread and often in a CIS free thread.
Originally posted by -Pr-
so nothing that's going to sway the majority, then?

But let's ignore what the mods seem to be saying about it and say that everything's set up the way you want, does that mean I'll never see you pitch a lightspeed blitz from Supes in a CIS free thread?

And again...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Does it matter when we're talking about an infrequent use in a thread featuring CIS or in a thread that's completely CIS free?

Think about it like this, how many times has Supes used his "aura vision" in his far greater number of appearances? If it's only two or three times, do you refuse to recognize his ability to do so in a thread where it's actually relevant?

But just so we're clear, what are you actually arguing here? That SS lacks the ability to create force fields inside of someone, that he lacks the inclination, or that he simply shouldn't be allowed to do so?

Looking back over the whole thing now, I can see that pr may have been saying that the instances I cited isn't enough for most people rather than asking if I thought SS would use the tactic frequently. pr clarify please?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Looking back over the whole thing now, I can see that pr may have been saying that the instances I cited isn't enough for most people rather than asking if I thought SS would use the tactic frequently. pr clarify please?

the "isnt enough for most people" part.

I recall two times using a bubble inside someone's body, one inside a Skrull's brain.

i often think CIS doesnt necessarily hamper a character in a forum fight.

in a comic he will not be written to the best of his ability or kill even when his mindset and personality would make it the most obvious attack.

i guess PIS would fit more then CIS.....b/c SS can and would use such a tactic to kill regularly if he were allowed to.

Originally posted by batdude123
He may make him earn his victories, but SS isn't beating Adam.

Originally posted by -Pr-
the "isnt enough for most people" part.
So how many times do you feel that someone has to preform a specific tactic in order for it to be a valid tactic in a forum fight without CIS? Also, does this mean that you're overturning Bada's ruling on the matter?

fight, fight, fight...

Mom and Dad fight!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aMD4uy-QGc

Was gonna respond, but I saw Paul already backed up my statements.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So how many times do you feel that someone has to preform a specific tactic in order for it to be a valid tactic in a forum fight without CIS? Also, does this mean that you're overturning Bada's ruling on the matter?
Well PR does have seniority...

Originally posted by batdude123
Was gonna respond, but I saw Paul already backed up my statements.
That's actually yet to be determined. Unless he's reversing Bada's decision the policy is still what I posted.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well PR does have seniority...
I'm well aware. That's why I was asking...

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's actually yet to be determined. Unless he's reversing Bada's decision the policy is still what I posted.

He's made it quite clear to me that he's against what you're trying to say.

Originally posted by batdude123
He's made it quite clear to me that he's against what you're trying to say.
He may disagree with it personally, but unless he's reversing what Bada said that's still the forum policy. And it's actually a better policy IMO because the reverse means we have to do things like throw out 2/3 of guys like Surfer, Thor, GL, and Pre Crisis Superman's feats, limit blitzing speeds to that which has been positively shown on panel, etc., even in threads with a "No CIS" stipulation.

Originally posted by batdude123
Think about it like this, you don't see anybody in a CIS-free thread argue that Superman is going to vibrate his opponent out of existence, or T-Vo him into oblivion (at least, not anymore). A character going all-out with no-CIS doesn't mean we cherry-pick obscure feats that are hardly, if ever duplicated. Tell that to to the folks who say Superman in the first nanosecond uses a FTL speedblitz with dozens of planet-busting punches. And that's even in threads where there is CIS.

And and he still hasn't even performed that feat once on panel. /offtopic

BA rips his face off and then transforms into Black Adam wearing a Skrull face.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He may disagree with it personally, but unless he's reversing what Bada said that's still the forum policy.

Lmao.

If it makes you feel better, you can hold onto that until Paul overrules it.

Originally posted by batdude123
Lmao.

If it makes you feel better, you can hold onto that until Paul overrules it.
If he overrules it then so be it, it's really not that big a deal. I think at least three specific applications of an ability is a bit much as far as requirements go(especially in a No CIS fight), but if that's the standard people want that's the standard I'll debate by.

I'm just unsure as to whether or not that's his intent because he hasn't yet and it's come up a couple of times before this I believe.

CIS off does not mean debaters control a character as they would in a tournament. It also does not mean a character will fight out of character. I'm not sure if prior chats were misundersood.

Pr and I discussed things a while back and this is what was decided:

Originally posted by -Pr-
Clarification of CIS

Ok people, here are the finalised rules as regards PIS, CIS, and everything related to it.

PIS is, as always, off unless the thread starter says it's ON.

CIS, as was said before, is now a more diverse term, but is not as vague as before.

While CIS still exists in the form of characters like Rhino (who are just too stupid to know better), it also exists in one other form.

This is known as Character Inhibited Power. This applies to characters that have intelligence, like the Silver Surfer, Superman, and so on and so forth.

As Bada said:

"It's a self imposed limitation in certain circumstances which there is concern for civilians and buildings for the most part. It's not stupidity, it's a limitation set until the threat exceeds a certain threshold."

What this means is that people like the Surfer and Superman and so on will not use the full extent of their powers if it will endanger civilians. It doesn't, though, mean they will fight like idiots. The character's personality is an integral part of the match and dictates how they will perform. This is the crux of the rules we've come up with. It doesn't come down to powers, it comes down to the man or woman that weilds them.

In accordance with this, several factors come in to play in debates:

The Opponent, Basic Information, the Arena and the Character's Personality and Experience

Those four are key.

Example:

If Martian Manhunter fights say, Juggernaut.

MM doesn't personally know Juggernaut (Opponent). So he has Basic Information. This is categorised as being what the general public would know about the Juggernaut. It goes by averages. If that average man or woman on the street knows that Juggernaut is super strong, then MM knows. The average man or woman doesn't know, however, that the Juggernaut is weak against psionics. J'onn would approach with caution, not knowing whether Juggernaut was in his weight class, and not knowing the full extent of the man's powers.

However. If Martian Manhunter went up against Amazo, he would know to go for broke right at the start, because he KNOWS Amazo (Personality and Experience). He will use his speed, his strength, his shapeshifting. This is because if he knows what it takes to bring down Amazo, or he believes his standard attacks won't work. If J'onn was fighting Juggernaut, there would come a point when he would realise that normal attacks won't work, and would up his game. Any character that doesn't suffer from Rhino-esque stupidity is capable of this. Even with this, though, the Arena comes in to play. If civilians are in danger, J'onn won't shapeshift in to a fire breathing dragon. Juggernaut on the other hand doesn't care, so wouldn't hesitate to toss cars and trucks full of civilians at the Martian.

Examples:

Thor knows he can't out-brawl Hulk, so uses exotic powers sooner than he would against the likes of Superman, as Superman is an unknown to him.

Superman would go all out against Doomsday or Despero because he knows how powerful they are. Against the Hulk, he's going to take a few punches before realising he'll have to use something rather than slugging it out. He won't bathe the street in heat vision either, because there are civilians nearby.

It ALL comes down to the CHARACTER, not the POWERSET.

As a general consensus, one time feats aren't used.

Edit: And when a mod makes a ruling in a thread, the discussion should end there in that thread. It doesn't mean "Let's keep arguing points until another mod comes along."

Originally posted by Badabing
CIS off does not mean debaters control a character as they would in a tournament. It also does not mean a character will fight out of character. I'm not sure if prior chats were misundersood.

Pr and I discussed things a while back and this is what was decided:



As a general consensus, one time feats aren't used.

Edit: And when a mod makes a ruling in a thread, the discussion should end there in that thread. It doesn't mean "Let's keep arguing points until another mod comes along."
That's kinda wierd Bada. I mean my quote from you is a bit old, but it's from earlier this year(after you guys changed the rules to what they are now. But I mean that's cool, it was your call so it's up to you if you want to change it.

Also I wasn't trying to ignore pr's ruling, I was just making sure that he was actually making one as opposed to just giving an opinion(sorry if it seemed that way pr). But all that kind of discussion is better saved for a more appropriate thread so I'll take my questions regarding what this means for everyone there.

Hasnt it been both shown and stated that superskrull druing and post annihalation is a somewhat different character than before?
More aggressive and a better tactician, it's no coinicidence that better applications of power have been shown.
The instances of brain bubbles have been post annihaltion too.

Thereby, using current versions of characters it's entirely reasonable that he'd use that tactic, especially when fire and pounding dont win him the fight.

^ Super Skrull has always used the FF powers more violently than the FF has.

And it's a fact that Sue has used her powers in a more violent/effective way in the past few years. Would Super Skrull replicate that or surpass that? Well... that's up for interpretation.

BA rips SS a new one.

If SS decides to make a bubble in BA's brain, Teth has a brain fart, and goes back to fighting like nothing happened.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Also I wasn't trying to ignore pr's ruling, I was just making sure that he was actually making one as opposed to just giving an opinion(sorry if it seemed that way pr). But all that kind of discussion is better saved for a more appropriate thread so I'll take my questions regarding what this means for everyone there.

mmm

creative and ruthless use of force fields is within SS's morality and intellectual capacities. why should it be banned as a viable tactic in the forums? getting rid of PIS should be enough to warrant that it's a tactic within his repertoire. it's not a different power that shows up when the plot requires it like t-vo either, he uses the force-fields all the time and usually does so in far more brutal manners than sue, stabbing, crushing and slicing his enemies

I'm pretty sure BA survived having an object expand to enormous size in his brain.

Him and the Marvels (appearances aside) aren't human in their powered forms, they're mystical constructs, so a shield in his brain probably won't kill him. I mean look at Billy: he survived being turned inside out.

Yes, I agree he still wins given his absurd regenerating powers. SS could do alright against CM with a combination of force-field and mind control powers though.

Originally posted by 753
Yes, I agree he still wins given his absurd regenerating powers. SS could do alright against CM with a combination of force-field and mind control powers though.
I don't think SS could do what J'onn couldn't: control BA's mind.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't think SS could do what J'onn couldn't: control BA's mind. Am I missing something?

i thought MM just shared his pain to shock him not control him.

Originally posted by 753
Am I missing something?
I'm pretty sure J'onn tried and failed to mind-rape BA in WW3.

Unless SS's powers aren't straight tp.

wth?

SS doesnt mindrape nor did MM mindrape either.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm pretty sure J'onn tried and failed to mind-rape BA in WW3.

Unless SS's powers aren't straight tp. right, but i didnt say he could do that to BA, I said he could do it to CM and I acknowledged he can't beat BA. His power is not really telepathy, but some kind of mind control described as hypnotic vision or some lame crap like that.

Originally posted by King Castle
wth?

SS doesnt mindrape nor did MM mindrape either. It's not conventional mindrape. It's hypnotic vision.

Originally posted by 753
right, but i didnt say he could do that to BA, I said he could do it to CM and I acknowledged he can't beat BA. His power is not really telepathy, but some kind of mind control described as hypnotic vision or some lame crap like that.


Hypnotic Vision rulez uhuh

yeh, the old skrull swirley eyes.

Originally posted by Bentley
Hypnotic Vision rulez uhuh It has 60s dorkiness written all over it, specially the spiral effect coming out of his eyes. It can be cool if the inherent dorkiness is embraced and played for all its retro comic value though.