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Standard equipment for both.Who wins?

DD, wins... SSS is irrelevant.

Daredevil

No SSS then DD wins. SSS Cap wins.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
No SSS then DD wins. SSS Cap wins.

not sure why it even make a differences. Capt lost it before, all it ment was that he has to train constantly to mantain his abilities. really have no baring on this fights outcome.

ssr makes him faster stronger and more durable than DD.
it enhances his endurance too, meaning he won't get constantly tierd as the fight advances. without it he maintains top human atributes (which DD shares as well) and skills (which IMO are on par with DD or only slightly better). In this setting I see DD's senses and radar giving him the edge (6/10) but with the ssr Cap would overwhelm him

Thing is when he lost his SSS the first time he still had all of his abilities, they left him at extremely slow rate. He be capt in this fight, except slightly less stamina then normal.

ok then. let me put it that way.

ssr stats cap wins. top trained human stats cap loses

with the SSS Cap can knock out the Hulk
DD wouldn't stand a chance against him with the SSS

What?

I think he's kidding.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Thing is when he lost his SSS the first time he still had all of his abilities, they left him at extremely slow rate. He be capt in this fight, except slightly less stamina then normal.


When Cap lost it when he fought Crossbones he stated without the SSS Crossbones is stronger then him. He definitley didn't have all his abilities, that was the whole point of the arch and it wasn't at a very slow rate as in months or something.

Originally posted by SamZED
I think he's kidding.

Not sure if he was and Cap Koing the Hulk isn't PIS its just a high showing.

Originally posted by Deadline
Not sure if he was and Cap Koing the Hulk isn't PIS its just a high showing. So high it should be concidered PIS. And in no way should be used to argue Cap vs Daredevil like its a norm. Steve with SSS isnt oneshotting Daredevil.

So Steve is back to a sknny nerd? DD stomps.

once again, no non-meta character is beating DD or Spidey. Please stop making threads like this.

without the SSS Cap would be peak human he just tire like any other person eventually. he would lose his low end regeneration and poison immunity.

i would say Cap would still win.

Originally posted by SamZED
So high it should be concidered PIS.

According to who? Do you dictate whats PIS on this forum? Its not PIS because hes been doing stuff like that for ages.

The Hulk has also taken far worse than that for ages, far, far worse.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The Hulk has also taken far worse than that for ages, far, far worse.

Doesn't work like that. In comics martial arts are a subsititute for powers. A brick can take millions of tons of force but in comics if you're trained well enough you can do it. This has been done time and time again.

Cap KOing Hulk is PIS.

Originally posted by Deadline
According to who? Do you dictate whats PIS on this forum? Its not PIS because hes been doing stuff like that for ages. According to common sense. So we're to believe that Steve can oneshot anyone who has below Hulk's durability? Like CM said, Hulk has taken attacks 1000x powerful than Steve's punch and wasn't even hurt that bad, let alone koed. As for THIS forum, Spider-man with his class 10 strength KOing a holding back Firelord with 1000 punches and after dropping a building on his head is an example of PIS on KMC, yet Cap koing Hulk shouldnt count as that? Its PIS and should never be used as an example on vs forum, Cap isnt even oneshotting Daredevil, Punisher or Batman, let alone Hulk.

Originally posted by SamZED
According to common sense. So we're to believe that Steve can oneshot anyone who has below Hulk's durability? Like CM said, Hulk has taken attacks 1000x powerful than Steve's punch and wasn't even hurt that bad, let alone koed. As for THIS forum, Spider-man with his class 10 strength KOing a holding back Firelord with 1000 punches and after dropping a building on his head is an example of PIS on KMC, yet Cap koing Hulk shouldnt count as that? Its PIS and should never be used as an example on vs forum, Cap isnt even oneshotting Daredevil, Punisher or Batman, let alone Hulk.

Sam you're silly. Spider-Man ko'ing Firelord is PIS because he hasn't taken a karate class. Originally posted by SamZED
According to common sense. So we're to believe that Steve can oneshot anyone who has below Hulk's durability? Like CM said, Hulk has taken attacks 1000x powerful than Steve's punch and wasn't even hurt that bad, let alone koed. As for THIS forum, Spider-man with his class 10 strength KOing a holding back Firelord with 1000 punches and after dropping a building on his head is an example of PIS on KMC, yet Cap koing Hulk shouldnt count as that? Its PIS and should never be used as an example on vs forum, Cap isnt even oneshotting Daredevil, Punisher or Batman, let alone Hulk. Martial Arts aren't superpowers unless you're like Iron Fist or Akuma and you actually do "super" stuff it. The non-meta's might have some neat feats, but it's not a superpower at all. Common sense and logic applies to all debates. Are we going to say that Cap can out-react the Flash in a fight now? People are using crossover matches to determine the outcome despite one's history. That's just jobbing. It's the same thing with some... other characters. The opponent's history doesn't matter because their character did something in a crossover fight.

Originally posted by SamZED
I think he's kidding.
I don't I think he honestly believe that nonsenses.

Originally posted by SamZED
According to common sense. So we're to believe that Steve can oneshot anyone who has below Hulk's durability?


Showings in comics arent 100% consistent thats why one somedays certain characters can do insane feats and others can't that doesnt mean they can do it all the time.

Originally posted by SamZED

Like CM said, Hulk has taken attacks 1000x powerful than Steve's punch and wasn't even hurt that bad, let alone koed.



Its a comicbook in comicbooks the impossibilie can happen. You don't decide what makes sense and what doesn't make sense in a reality full of impossibilities. You have to look at the context of the universe and in this universe it possible.

Originally posted by SamZED

As for THIS forum, Spider-man with his class 10 strength KOing a holding back Firelord with 1000 punches and after dropping a building on his head is an example of PIS on KMC,

No isn't Firelord was tired.

Originally posted by SamZED


yet Cap koing Hulk shouldnt count as that? Its PIS and should never be used as an example on vs forum, Cap isnt even oneshotting Daredevil, Punisher or Batman, let alone Hulk.

Those characters are alot more skillful and I never argued he could one shot hulk.

Also what of the times Capt has failed to KO the hulk?

Originally posted by Deadline
Showings in comics arent 100% consistent thats why one somedays certain characters can do insane feats and others can't that doesnt mean they can do it all the time.




Its a comicbook in comicbooks the impossibilie can happen. You don't decide what makes sense and what doesn't make sense in a reality full of impossibilities. You have to look at the context of the universe and in this universe it possible.



No isn't Firelord was tired.



Those characters are alot more skillful and I never argued he could one shot hulk. So then logic doesn't matter in a debate. Well that's not even good trolling Deadline. You can do better than that. It isn't even your A material. You aren't trying anymore.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Martial Arts aren't superpowers unless you're like Iron Fist or Akuma and you actually do "super" stuff it.

Didnt say they were superpowers and said they are like superpowers eg Bullseyes talent.


Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The non-meta's might have some neat feats, but it's not a superpower at all. Common sense and logic applies to all debates.


You also said you could dodge bullets obvoulsy you get to dictate whats common sense.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Are we going to say that Cap can out-react the Flash in a fight now? People are using crossover matches to determine the outcome despite one's history. That's just jobbing. It's the same thing with some... other characters. The opponent's history doesn't matter because their character did something in a crossover fight.



Faulty logic. Cap has never outreacted Flash and I'm not using examples from crossovers. Canon feats are used on this forum and thats what im using.

Originally posted by Deadline
Showings in comics arent 100% consistent thats why one somedays certain characters can do insane feats and others can't that doesnt mean they can do it all the time.
.
except on forum that would not be the case.


Originally posted by Deadline
a comicbook in comicbooks the impossibilie can happen. You don't decide what makes sense and what doesn't make sense in a reality full of impossibilities. You have to look at the context of the universe and in this universe it possible.

except on the forum we have rules against this very type of feat.


Originally posted by Deadline
isn't Firelord was tired.
yes it is, in fact it was given as the example of pis. That made far more senses then Hulk being KO by capt.....

Originally posted by Deadline
Didnt say they were superpowers and said they are like superpowers eg Bullseyes talent.




You also said you could dodge bullets obvoulsy you get to dictate whats common sense.





Faulty logic. Cap has never outreacted Flash and I'm not using examples from crossovers. Canon feats are used on this forum and thats what im using. Aim dodging bullets, but bullets job.
C'mon man, troll harder. I liked your old trolling better.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So then logic doesn't matter in a debate. Well that's not even good trolling Deadline. You can do better than that. It isn't even your A material. You aren't trying anymore.

Originally posted by Deadline


Its a comicbook in comicbooks the impossibilie can happen. You don't decide what makes sense and what doesn't make sense in a reality full of impossibilities. You have to look at the context of the universe and in this universe it possible.





Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Aim dodging bullets, but bullets job.
C'mon man, troll harder. I liked your old trolling better.


C-master you can't aim dodge bullets, ok?

Originally posted by Deadline
Showings in comics arent 100% consistent thats why one somedays certain characters can do insane feats and others can't that doesnt mean they can do it all the time. Yes, doesnt mean it should be used as an argument in a vs forum. Spider-man koed Absorbing Man, yet you dont see me argue that he's gonna do that to Thing or Colossus. Or oneshot Luke Cage since he isnt as tough as AM.



Originally posted by Deadline

Its a comicbook in comicbooks the impossibilie can happen. You don't decide what makes sense and what doesn't make sense in a reality full of impossibilities. You have to look at the context of the universe and in this universe it possible. I dont decide that. Anything is possible in comics world, yeah, but that doesnt mean we have to accept EVERY crazy thing that happens in books and use it as a debating argument on a vs forum as if its a norm or makes sense. We'd have threads like Luke Cage vs Superman and Thing vs Galactus because "anything is possible in comicbooks". In order to avoid that we still should use some kind of logic and follow some rules. And common sense suggests that Hulk who tanks punches from Juggernaut, Namor and Thor's hammer should not get kncoked out by Steve who is just an enhanced comicbook human.
Originally posted by Deadline

No isn't Firelord was tired. He was beaten, blown up twice, had a building fall on his head, was holding back and took a 1000 punches before getting KOed, yet in "Rules" its used as an example of PIS because he's a cosmic being that normally takes atacks from Silver Surfer.


Originally posted by Deadline

Those characters are alot more skillful and I never argued he could one shot hulk. In that case I dont mind it happening in comics, just like I dont mind Black Panther threatening to rip Silver Surfer's arm off. But I dont see how it makes a difference on the forum vs Daredevil who is almost as strong and skilled as Steve.

Originally posted by SamZED

He was beaten, blown up twice, had a building fall on his head, was holding back and took a 1000 punches before getting KOed, yet in Ru;es its an example of PIS because he's a cosmic being that normally takes atacks from Silver Surfer.



I always wonder this, is it pis becuase Spiderman Koed him or because firelord fought like an idiot? because I honestly think it kinda legit that spiderman KO him, but I also understand that in forum fight that would not go down like that.

Originally posted by Deadline
C-master you can't aim dodge bullets, ok? C'mon don't give me any trolling. Give me your best. I'm insulted by this.

Silly... aim dodging means you dodge the person's aim. Which means you are faster than the person. An average person can do that. You're not dodging the bullet, simply moving out of the way of the person firing it.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
C'mon don't give me any trolling. Give me your best.

Silly... aim dodging means you dodge the person's aim. Which means you are faster than the person. An average person can do that. You're not dodging the bullet, simply moving out of the way of the person firing it.

That is actually quite plausible in real life if the person is wielding a hand gun. It extremely hard to hit a moving target with a hand gun.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
C'mon don't give me any trolling. Give me your best.

Silly... aim dodging means you dodge the person's aim. Which means you are faster than the person. An average person can do that. You're not dodging the bullet, simply moving out of the way of the person firing it.

I know but in your circumstance you would define that as running or GTFO. You wouldn't say that you can aim dodge.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I always wonder this, is it pis becuase Spiderman Koed him or because firelord fought like an idiot? because I honestly think it kinda legit that spiderman KO him, but I also understand that in forum fight that would not go down like that. Well, at least they tried to exaplain FL's reasons and why he was holding back. Im not that familliar with his character and dont know if he should care about innocent people. But yeah, it'd never go like that on a forum, that's why noone ever seriously brings that up. Only for the lols.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
That is actually quite plausible in real life if the person is wielding a hand gun. It extremely hard to hit a moving target with a hand gun. You can do that or move their hand out of the way while moving the other way. It's all the streets can do and low metas as well. Spider-Man can move with one coming at him if the distance is sufficient, but that's about it really. Not impossible at all really. Training lowers your reflex time. Not that I'm advertising anybody get in front of a hostile person with a gun.

That's just aim dodging, dodging the aim, not the bullet.

Originally posted by SamZED
Well, at least they tried to exaplain FL's reasons and why he was holding back. Im not that familliar with his character and dont know if he should care about innocent people. But yeah, it'd never go like that on a forum, that's why noone ever seriously brings that up. Only for the lols.
I not very big on him either. I think he one of those characters, that some times is potray as a good guy and other times not so much.


Though I think the incident in consider pis, becuase the people are in the way of him using his full powers, which is a plot device. Asside from that, given firelord handicaps I really see no reason why spiderman should not have been capable of putting him down like that.

It could be more plot device than PIS. Although he can survive deep pressures in space...

compare this feat of firelord and then ask if it was remotely possible for Spidey to ko him.

http://img141.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-11611/loc35/79465_draxx2.jpg

Firelord would have to be depowered to ridicules levels for spiderman to ko him.

firelord respect link
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=438483&pagenumber=2

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I not very big on him either. I think he one of those characters, that some times is potray as a good guy and other times not so much.


Though I think the incident in consider pis, becuase the people are in the way of him using his full powers, which is a plot device. Asside from that, given firelord handicaps I really see no reason why spiderman should not have been capable of putting him down like that. Yeah, me too. I mean he was basically punching him for few (2?) issues and using all kinds of stuff to hurt him, while FL was holding back. Not sure if KMC is ok with SM being able to ko him though.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It could be more plot device than PIS. Although he can survive deep pressures in space...
I think PIS sometimes also pertains to plot devices. Because it in it most general senses is plot induced stupidity which plot device can be just that in same cases.




true, but so has people like wolverine, and dropping a building on him and hitting him 1000 times, and he gunna go down.

not to say that wolverine = fire lord or anything like that, but jsut an example.

meh imo Loeb basically retconned all the fights with Hulk and Cap to basically be that Cap is capable of knocking out the Hulk. Which is why we see Cap making the Hulk his ***** consistently now.
Not like I agree with it but I think it should be considered a very very high showing for him and a low showing for the Hulk rather than any type of PIS. I mean this is the guy who throws a shield so hard it cuts through all different types of metals and allows.

Originally posted by King Castle
compare this feat of firelord and then ask if it was remotely possible for Spidey to ko him.

http://img141.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-11611/loc35/79465_draxx2.jpg


Not really all the impressive to be honest, Wolverine taken more then that, but if Spiderman dropped a building on him and hit him 1000 times, he go down all the same.

again not sayign wolverine = firelord by any means, but simply an example

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I think PIS sometimes also pertains to plot devices. Because it in it most general senses is plot induced stupidity which plot device can be just that in same cases.




true, but so has people like wolverine, and dropping a building on him and hitting him 1000 times, and he gunna go down.

not to say that wolverine = fire lord or anything like that, but jsut an example. A plot device progresses a story. Batman finding a "tool" to win would be an example of that. PIS is something like Flash being nailed by stupid crap to give the opponents a chance so there *is* a story.

Loeb has not reconnt any such thing, how did you even come to that type of conclusion?

Originally posted by King Castle
compare this feat of firelord and then ask if it was remotely possible for Spidey to ko him.

http://img141.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-11611/loc35/79465_draxx2.jpg

Firelord would have to be depowered to ridicules levels for spiderman to ko him.

firelord respect link
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=438483&pagenumber=2 He did good against Titinia and SS.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
A plot device progresses a story. Batman finding a "tool" to win would be an example of that. PIS is something like Flash being nailed by stupid crap to give the opponents a chance so there *is* a story.

It pretty much the same thing in many cases. PIS is used often in order to move a plot. Such as having colossus, omega red, and wolverine for example being KO by great falls. It plot induced stupidity in order to further the plot. Many cases a plot device can be consider plot induced stupidity.


I don't think it so black and white, I think plot devices in some cases and PIS fall into a grey area.

They can mix. But PIS is absolutely invalid, a plot device could be depending on the stip. But since most fights are "straight up" it won't matter anyways.

Flash getting tripped by Batman is PIS, but Batman finding a freezegun to take out Clayface is a plot device.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He did good against Titinia and SS. i actually like to play up the high end punching feats of spidey back in the day but it shouldnt be possible and if and when it happens it is rare.

i dont use them in forum fights normally in this forum.


But, Titania was an emotional wreck sure makes spidey a big man to beat up on her during the Secret War thing...

what will he do next beat a house wife

plus, not sure if she was full on 100 tonner i keep thinking at the time she should have bn 75 tonner still too durable for spidey to beat her down with a blitz punch attack probably numbering under ten strikes.

the SS fight if i recall Spidey had DD for support and SS just got tired of them and entrapped them in a cosmic harden cocoon.

Spider-Man actually has a ton of good showings against people way "above" him in tiers. Is it PIS anymore since he has done it numerous times?

A plot device and PIS are two completely different things. There happening a water tower / tank / valve / whatever around every time Spider-man fights Sandman is a plot device. Spider-man beating Sandman because of a plot device isn't PIS, PIS is when Venom bites Sandman's arm of and he almost dies... just because.

Lol srank is so funny. I love his posts.

Originally posted by marwash22
once again, no non-meta character is beating DD or Spidey. Please stop making threads like this.