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1) Venom(Brock) vs Gorgon

2) Venom(Gargan) & Anti-Venom vs Gorgon

3) Carnage vs Gorgon

4) Carnage, Venom, Anti-Venom vs Gorgon

Gorgon and his sword make symbiote sausages.

I'm not sure about how the stone stare works, but if he has to look them in the eye, or doesn't have it, then 1,3, and 4 win. If it's the one time "uber stare" I've heard of then no...

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I'm not sure about how the stone stare works, but if he has to look them in the eye, or doesn't have it, then 1,3, and 4 win. If it's the one time "uber stare" I've heard of then no... 2 has also Anti-Venom not just Gargan.

Normally it takes an eye contact. And symbiotes eyes are just well.. alien goo. That's why they can see in every direction.
Tp wont work either.

So he might just be smoked all over then.

Originally posted by SamZED
Normally it takes an eye contact. And symbiotes eyes are just well.. alien goo. That's why they can see in every direction.
Tp wont work either. realllllyyyy?

only one that can see in all directions is Carnage..

Venom has also been effected by the penance stare to an extend knocking him and ghost rider back and causing pain however weakened it may have bn it still partially worked... it was a eye to eye contact the penance stare just had a volatile unknown reactionary effect with the sym.. that was all..

the sym wasnt immune venom even stated he didnt like the nasty stare..

since when is Venom immune to tp or why do you say it wont work?

Originally posted by King Castle
realllllyyyy?

only one that can see in all directions is Carnage..

Venom has also been effected by the penance stare to an extend knocking him and ghost rider back and causing pain however weakened it may have bn it still partially worked... it was a eye to eye contact the penance stare just had a volatile unknown reactionary effect with the sym.. that was all..

the sym wasnt immune venom even stated he didnt like the nasty stare..

since when is Venom immune to tp or why do you say it wont work? And Carnage's biology is different than Venom's how? Ok tell me this. When the symbiotes have no hosts (the goo state) how do they move around? They dont always shows the "eyes".
And penance stare is a whole different power. And even it worked so "great" it left GR knocked out while Venom walked away.
Gorgon's power requires an eye contact. Symbiotes dont really have eyes. Simple as that.

Since Venom's "tp" feats are better than Gorgons and since the only time someone tried to mindcontrole him it didnt work.

venom and carnage abilities arent transferable.. the carnage sym is a mutated version of the original suit and pretty sure its bn said during planet of the sym that he has gets the powers of his parent plus his own making him unique.

which is why Carnage unlike Venom has full visual range able to see from all parts of his suits while Venom cant.. which is why the web to the face has distracted venom in the past and Carnage commented that shtick dont work on him..

same reason why his suit can create solid objects and discharge it from his suit something venom cant do.... other then weblines..

which is why Carnage can create clone suits something venom initially couldnt..

why Carnage's blood was mutated while brock's blood wasnt...

Why Carnage could absorb other suits into itself adding it to his own mass.

why Carnage was resistant to certain attacks that Venom wasnt...

anyways......moving on...

the suit without a host simply slithered using its own visual perception which unlike Carnages isnt every part of its body...

what TP feat does venom have an anguish psychic wail that simply effected those who were sensitive to it? pls.. that is nothing and you know it.. and pls tell who tried to mind controlled brock as if it matters when it comes to scanning the mind?

you have no evidence for none of you claims but simply using pure assumption you know that dont fly here.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11136/664875-venom_taking_a_breather.jpg

Originally posted by King Castle
venom and carnage abilities arent transferable.. the carnage sym is a mutated version of the original suit and pretty sure its bn said during planet of the sym that he has gets the powers of his parent plus his own making him unique.

which is why Carnage unlike Venom has full visual range able to see from all parts of his suits while Venom cant.. which is why the web to the face has distracted venom in the past and Carnage commented that shtick dont work on him..

same reason why his suit can create solid objects and discharge it from his suit something venom cant do.... other then weblines..

which is why Carnage can create clone suits something venom initially couldnt..

why Carnage's blood was mutated while brock's blood wasnt...

Why Carnage could absorb other suits into itself adding it to his own mass.

why Carnage was resistant to certain attacks that Venom wasnt...

anyways......moving on...

the suit without a host simply slithered using its own visual perception which unlike Carnages isnt every part of its body...

what TP feat does venom have an anguish psychic wail that simply effected those who were sensitive to it? pls.. that is nothing and you know it.. and pls tell who tried to mind controlled brock as if it matters when it comes to scanning the mind?

you have no evidence for none of you claims but simply using pure assumption you know that dont fly here.

If anything webbing distracting Venom is PIS. He was always able to "see" with his suit. The eyes, arent really eyes. They're still goo.

Here for example he makes as many eyes as he wants.
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7938/55333192.th.jpg

He can also "see" with his tendrils.
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7937/asm37319.th.jpg
another example.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1143/venomfuneralpyre00203.th.jpg http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/8286/venomfuneralpyre00204.th.jpg

He can also make his suit solid just like Carnage, like when he gutted Kraven, made claws to open Scarlet Spider's stomach or even created medical tools to cut out a bomb from his own body. He can but its just not his thing. As for discharging the symbiote parts, has done that as well. Absorbing other suits? He absorbed a symbiote clone adding it to his mass and even abosrbed Carnage's symbiote. So you see im not transferring Carnage's abilities. Venom can do all that.

Ive heard that every next generation of symbiotes is supposed to be stronger than the previous but even that doesnt seem to be the case.

Tp feats, reading peoples mind at distance, mindcontrole, mindraping even. Good enough for me to say Gorgon's tp is nothing he wont be able to handle. The one time I remeber someone tried to mindcontrol Venom, was Kulan Gath in team up. He failed to do that and Venom almost cut his head off.

I didnt assume a thing, I believe ive posted plenty of evidence to back up every claim. But if you can prove that Gorgon's stare would work against symbiotes ill admit that I was wrong. Because Elektra avoided it simply by shutting her eyes, while Brock's eyes are always covered with many inches of the symbiote suit.

And if you doubt his speed, Venom has blitzed Spider-man, dodged bullets, caught a bullet AFTER it was fired, cought 3 bullets at the same time etc etc

1 scenario is an interesting fight. 3 symbiotes together is an overkill.

Anyway. Till tomorrow, its getting late.

i am fully aware of venom making eyes for him to see that doesnt mean he has eyes and visual perception all around his body that has never bn the case nor will it ever be.. the sym can create or coordinate its visual perception to one area it doesnt mean it can see all around it at any given time..
Venom has been ambushed by spiderman and others too many times for it to be the case and his history has bn long enough for a writer to have made it so... rather the making a clear cut difference between what carnage can do and venom cant.

now i never said Venom couldnt harden his sym to make claws and whatnot i said it cant discharge itself and even the sym hardening wasnt even a standard ability but was a learned one when he discovered how to manipulate his Suit through experience.(u should be more clear so you dont latch on to something)


now i never once said venom wasnt fast nor agile pretty sure its common sense not that his speed is sufficient enough to out-react some one like Gorgon regularly especially since venom prefers to charge and grab and tank hits..


now i have established that the suit does see whether you wanna argue it or not i have established that it was susceptible to the penance stare which you claimed the opposite.


your argument which has no bases whatsoever was that some how TP dont work on venom is moot since we know that Gorgon only uses his tp to read minds not mind control and to communicate telepathically. you reasoning that venom is some how immune has no shred of tangible evidence b/c Gorgon can Read and scan both Wolverine and Elektra and Wolverine has level 9 psi blocks and is just as trained as blocking his mind as other Psi's and elektra is a telepath with similar training to logan if not slightly better and yet Gorgon could read them just find and establish telepathic communication..

so try again.

Originally posted by King Castle
i am fully aware of venom making eyes for him to see that doesnt mean he has eyes and visual perception all around his body that has never bn the case nor will it ever be.. the sym can create or coordinate its visual perception to one area it doesnt mean it can see all around it at any given time..
Venom has been ambushed by spiderman and others too many times for it to be the case and his history has bn long enough for a writer to have made it so... rather the making a clear cut difference between what carnage can do and venom cant. I just posted scans proving that Venom can see with his tendrils in any direction. And that he can make "eyes" on any part of his body. The thing is, they arent really eyes, they're are average parts of the symbiote and arent necessary needed for him to see. You think the symbiote develops new organs for Eddie or something? Those eyes are still that same symbiotic goo but in a shape of eyes and he can see with them. Just like he can see with tendrils. Carnage has been ambushed as many times as Venom. Blame it on writers, doesnt change the fact that both symbiotes can see with any part of the symbiotic suit, which was my point from the beginning, the point you tried to argue, despite me showing proofs.

Originally posted by King Castle

now i never said Venom couldnt harden his sym to make claws and whatnot i said it cant discharge itself and even the sym hardening wasnt even a standard ability but was a learned one when he discovered how to manipulate his Suit through experience.(u should be more clear so you dont latch on to something) When you were pointing out differences between Venom and Carnage you made several mistakes, including ability to absorb other symbiotes and resistance to certain attacks, all in attempt to prove that Venom shouldnt be able to see with the suit (which I already proved he can) Dont see why you keep arguing when I never tried to transfere Carnage's feats to Venom but using Venom's own all along.

Originally posted by King Castle

now i never once said venom wasnt fast nor agile pretty sure its common sense not that his speed is sufficient enough to out-react some one like Gorgon regularly especially since venom prefers to charge and grab and tank hits.. Glad we agree on something. And CIS aside his speed is more than enough to fight Gorgon on even footing.

Originally posted by King Castle

now i have established that the suit does see whether you wanna argue it or not i have established that it was susceptible to the penance stare which you claimed the opposite. I never claimed that penance stare didnt work, its just you brought up an irrelevant argument of power that has nothing to do with the stone stare. I only argued your interptetation of the events, you said it worked just fine but even penance stare didnt work like it was suposed to, it only hurt Brock a bit but left Ghost Rider uncouncious, so unless you're suggesting that stone stare will knock Gorgon out I dont see how it helps the argument. Once again, if you can show evidence of Gorgon's power effecting symbiotes you'll have a point. For now you dont because of the inches of symbiote goo covering Brock's eyes.

Originally posted by King Castle

your argument which has no bases whatsoever was that some how TP dont work on venom is moot since we know that Gorgon only uses his tp to read minds not mind control and to communicate telepathically. you reasoning that venom is some how immune has no shred of tangible evidence b/c Gorgon can Read and scan both Wolverine and Elektra and Wolverine has level 9 psi blocks and is just as trained as blocking his mind as other Psi's and elektra is a telepath with similar training to logan if not slightly better and yet Gorgon could read them just find and establish telepathic communication.. No, that would be your argument about stone stare that holds no base. My argument is based on the fact that Venom's own telepathy is more effective than Gorgon's, meaning Gorgon's telepathy (assuming it'll work at all) wont make much difference as Brock himself can do the same thing to Gorgon. As he has that ability + mindcontrole + mindrape. So unless Gorgon is planning to telepathicaly talk Brock to the death, I dont see how it makes a difference.

Originally posted by King Castle

so try again. Lets make this clear. You created a thread thinking that Gorgon can simply stonestare all of the symbiotes FTW, in whcih case it would've been spite. And now that I proved that it wont work you're upset because you originally intended for it to be spite? Also, so far Im the only one presented evidence in character's defence, you havent even started explaining why should Gorgon's power work through inches of symbiotic goo when it failes even though thin eyelids. So I dont need to try again, ive proven everything I said. You however didnt.

Gorgon doesn't have as much going when his more exotic abilities don't work in a matchup.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Gorgon doesn't have as much going when his more exotic abilities don't work in a matchup.
I disagree. He posses a sword capable of killing gods. He posses a dead body and wolverine level healing factor. He genius intellect, martial arts master, posses superhuman stats across the boards.

also there zero reason his telepath won't work.

In melee alone he give venom absolute fits.

venom has telepathy now? when?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I disagree. He posses a sword capable of killing gods. He posses a dead body and wolverine level healing factor. He genius intellect, martial arts master, posses superhuman stats across the boards.

also there zero reason his telepath won't work.

In melee alone he give venom absolute fits. Which still means he doesn't have as much going for him. Those stats of his are nowhere near Venom's. He isn't even quite on Spider-Man's level all across the board. So Gorgon's genius intellect matters in a match but when it's Spider-Man it doesn't matter in a fight? MA ability? Won't really matter against symbiotes.

He will give Brock trouble, then he will lose. If he's fighting all of them, he goes down. Hard.

Does Anti-Venom have any affect on Gorgon?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
venom has telepathy now? when? He's always had it. But it wasnt as established at first as it is now. He's got plenty of feats.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Does Anti-Venom have any affect on Gorgon? I wonder that as well. The ability to "cure" superpowers might be useful.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Which still means he doesn't have as much going for him.Those stats of his are nowhere near Venom's. He isn't even quite on Spider-Man's level all across the board. So Gorgon's genius intellect matters in a match but when it's Spider-Man it doesn't matter in a fight? MA ability? Won't really matter against symbiotes.

He will give Brock trouble, then he will lose. If he's fighting all of them, he goes down. Hard.

Does Anti-Venom have any affect on Gorgon?

I disagree, that is still quite abit going for him.

Stats arnt closes to venom? based on what? Only realy advantage venom has is strength, He has zero speed of reflex advantage, in fact I ever wager Gorgon the faster of the two.

I stated his intellect becuase you acting like in general once his stone stare gone he got nothing, which is far from the cases, he completely no sold many establish characters with out the uses of stone stare. I agree intellect does not determine much in a fight, it more tactics, that matter which gorgon still a genius at, though doubt it matter much in this fight.

MA ability will play a factor in melee, like it always does, him facing a sym does not change this.

why will he loses to brock? Becuase I disagree completely.

not sure phobes powers had no effect on him and he a god.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Does Anti-Venom have any affect on Gorgon? Doubtful, unless Gorgon got his powers from an accident or a disease that altered his physiology.

Originally posted by SamZED
He's always had it. But it wasnt as established at first as it is now. He's got plenty of feats.

I wonder that as well. The ability to "cure" superpowers might be useful.
can I see these feats? if there a section of the respect thread that has it or something, feel free if it either to post the link to the page, rather then wasting your time posting scans.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I disagree, that is still quite abit going for him.

Stats arnt closes to venom? based on what? Only realy advantage venom has is strength, He has zero speed of reflex advantage, in fact I ever wager Gorgon the faster of the two.

I stated his intellect becuase you acting like in general once his stone stare gone he got nothing, which is far from the cases, he completely no sold many establish characters with out the uses of stone stare. I agree intellect does not determine much in a fight, it more tactics, that matter which gorgon still a genius at, though doubt it matter much in this fight.

MA ability will play a factor in melee, like it always does, him facing a sym does not change this.

why will he loses to brock? Becuase I disagree completely.

not sure phobes powers had no effect on him and he a god. Because when Spider-Man's intellect was brought up in a fight it didn't seem to matter since he didn't have MA, even though he's used his intellect in thousands of fights. Any proof of Gorgon using it?

Lol I didn't say nothing, I said he doesn't have as much going for him against a symbiote who has tremendous damage resistance. If he was fighting Batman or something he'd still stomp. But not against a symbiote. Brock has great reflexes around Spider-Man level.

God arguments don't work and you know that. Gods lose to mortals all of the time in fiction. I almost feel like I'm in a Kratos thread now.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Because when Spider-Man's intellect was brought up in a fight it didn't seem to matter since he didn't have MA, even though he's used his intellect in thousands of fights. Any proof of Gorgon using it?
I agree they don't matter, only tactics, even then one on ones it useless. The only time intellect really comes into play is when there prep battle or enviorment were traps or some such can be made (even then they have to be fighting someone pretty stupid).

Gorgon has used his intellect many times, though not so much in battle, because he normally destroys the people he fighting.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Lol I didn't say nothing, I said he doesn't have as much going for him against a symbiote who has tremendous damage resistance. If he was fighting Batman or something he'd still stomp. But not against a symbiote. Brock has great reflexes around Spider-Man level.
sorry the way you stated earlies seemed more generalized. If you mean against just sym, then I agree with you.

Gorgon is at least spiderman level though in reflexes and speed. Dude is dam fast.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
God arguments don't work and you know that. Mortals lose to gods all of the time in fiction. I almost feel like I'm in a Kratos thread now.
I mean the sword was made to kill gods. It was made by greek gods to kill other greek gods. I dam powerful sword and can cut through pretty much anything. He could do some serous damage to venom with it. Also wonder if it has any magical properties as well. I trying to find what it stated abilities are.

He is comparable to Spider-Man in speed in reflexes I agree. See. We as people tend to agree we just say the same thing in different ways.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He is comparable to Spider-Man in speed in reflexes I agree. See. We as people tend to agree we just say the same thing in different ways.
true.



I think this match is interesting, well the fight with just brock anyways. I wonder how brock would do with being cut in haft, or stabbed completely through ect. I know Wolverine stabbed him before, but he does not have nearly the length of a sword. Which can play a big factor when you have a big enough weapon to damage to host in side.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Which still means he doesn't have as much going for him. Those stats of his are nowhere near Venom's. He isn't even quite on Spider-Man's level all across the board. So Gorgon's genius intellect matters in a match but when it's Spider-Man it doesn't matter in a fight? MA ability? Won't really matter against symbiotes.

He will give Brock trouble, then he will lose. If he's fighting all of them, he goes down. Hard.

Does Anti-Venom have any affect on Gorgon?

Gorgon is far faster, has a weapon that would outright rip the symbiotes in half, he is a better fighter. He would DESTROY venom in a melee confrontation. I can't believe you said that spidey is a physical match for gorgon. Make a thread of spidey vs elektra and wolverine and let's see what people would say and these are the same two people that gorgon blitzed and took out in a couple of panels.

As for the fight, he clears this. The symbiotes are to inconsistent... doesn't have the necessary speed to keep up with gorgon and gorgons swords would take a hard toll on their durability.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He is comparable to Spider-Man in speed in reflexes I agree. See. We as people tend to agree we just say the same thing in different ways.

I disagree... when spidey and elektra fight they are usually on even footing... elektra couldn't even land one solid lick on gorgon. Then we have shield agents that has seen spidey in action and states that no one is as fast as gorgon. Then we have wolverine that has went face to face with spidey also saying that no one is as fast as gorgon. Then we have wolvy and elektra yet again facing gorgon, peeps that has went f2f with spidey and held their own getting blitz by gorgon and yet again wolverine is complimenting his speed. The only time wolvy ever got a legit hit and did well against gorgon is when he knocked him off of a 10 story building and after that small showing, he got blitzed yet again.

Wolvy and spidey speed is comparable not gorgon and spidey... gorgon is on a different level.

Originally posted by carver9
Gorgon is far faster, has a weapon that would outright rip the symbiotes in half, he is a better fighter. He would DESTROY venom in a melee confrontation. I can't believe you said that spidey is a physical match for gorgon. Make a thread of spidey vs elektra and wolverine and let's see what people would say and these are the same two people that gorgon blitzed and took out in a couple of panels.

As for the fight, he clears this. The symbiotes are to inconsistent... doesn't have the necessary speed to keep up with gorgon and gorgons swords would take a hard toll on their durability.

So where is Gorgon beyond Spider-Man in physically? I've asked time and time again and I've seen nothing. He has comparable speed and reaction, that's about it.

I don't need to make a thread to prove what other's think. Most people on here are stupid anyways. Gorgon doesn't mind killing, Spider-Man does. Gorgon is an occasional villain so of course he's going to "look badass" when he approaches.

You don't want me to use a feat war with you. Spider-Man Secret Wars? Spider-Man F4? I hate feat wars because it's a stupid way to argue. But don't be silly enough to argue him against someone with a larger history and try to use a feat war.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So where is Gorgon beyond Spider-Man in physically? I've asked time and time again and I've seen nothing. He has comparable speed and reaction, that's about it.

I don't need to make a thread to prove what other's think. Most people on here are stupid anyways. Gorgon doesn't mind killing, Spider-Man does. Gorgon is an occasional villain so of course he's going to "look badass" when he approaches.

You don't want me to use a feat war with you. Spider-Man Secret Wars? Spider-Man F4? I hate feat wars because it's a stupid way to argue. But don't be silly enough to argue him against someone with a larger history and try to use a feat war.

But again, you fail to realize that even with the small showing that gorgon has, he has proven that he is faster and probably stronger.

This is the same guy that bit a steel sword and broke it into pieces.

Again, spidey speed is comparable to wolvy and elektra and this has been proven a thousand times. The same people that spidey is comparable to got blitzed every time they confronted gorgon. Then we have gorgon fighting someone and at the same time yoyo is trying to sneak him with a speed blitz... someone that has feats of going thousands past the speed of sound and he has enough speed to slice someone, grab his sword, turn around, and slice her hand off before her blitz even touch him.

This girl is faster than speed demon, someone that trounced spiderman, this girl is faster than classic quicksilver, someone who trounced spiderman also and the tables turned on her, she got blitzed.

This should also prove that gorgon could possibly be stronger than spidey. Marvel knights #13... an enraged spidey is punching on wolvey with no effect at all. Gorgon punches wolvey and almost end the fight. This has happened twice with a spidey giving it everything he got at wolvy head doing no damage at all but gorgon fist was thrashing wolverine.

Originally posted by carver9
But again, you fail to realize that even with the small showing that gorgon has, he has proven that he is faster and probably stronger.

This is the same guy that bit a steel sword and broke it into pieces.

Again, spidey speed is comparable to wolvy and elektra and this has been proven a thousand times. The same people that spidey is comparable to got blitzed every time they confronted gorgon. Then we have gorgon fighting someone and at the same time yoyo is trying to sneak him with a speed blitz... someone that has feats of going thousands past the speed of sound and he has enough speed to slice someone, grab his sword, turn around, and slice her hand off before her blitz even touch him.

This girl is faster than speed demon, someone that trounced spiderman, this girl is faster than classic quicksilver, someone who trounced spiderman also and the tables turned on her, she got blitzed. Spider-Man has far greater strength feats. Spider-Man has blitzed teams of people, with the aforementioned characters as well. If we *really* want to go nasty with the feats I could put in Thor or Titania.

There has been no "speed" proven. I made a thread about it, and nothing got proven, it got closed due to bashing. The consensus what what it should have been and the feats were better. Just because 3 or 4 people choose not to see that it isn't my problem.

And why is this turning into Wolverine vs Spider-Man? I am *not* doing this argument for the 10,000th time. doh

*edit* Are you really saying Gorgon is stronger. Dear god. Spider-Man has affected him with hits, and Spider-Man has shattered tanks and lifted a building. This is almost too stupid to continue. Not to mention Cap, DD, and Punisher have affected him with their hits as well. I'm going to cry.

Do you have any strength feats like those mentioned above? Nope.

Originally posted by carver9
someone that has feats of going thousands past the speed of sound barker

This is what makes me not want to bother posting seriously on this site, kinda like that business site. I might just not bother with certain... posts now.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spider-Man has far greater strength feats. Spider-Man has blitzed teams of people, with the aforementioned characters as well. If we *really* want to go nasty with the feats I could put in Thor or Titania.


Though I don't agree with carver, you don't wanna use thor, because despite how much people dislike it, Thor pretty much stated he was slower then Wolverine. So argueing spiderman blizting thor against someone like carver not going to help you.

also spiderman did not really blizt wolverien in secret warriors. Wolverine attack him by jumping straight in the air and spiderman back handed him, thats not a speed blizt.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spider-Man has far greater strength feats. Spider-Man has blitzed teams of people, with the aforementioned characters as well. If we *really* want to go nasty with the feats I could put in Thor or Titania.

There has been no "speed" proven. I made a thread about it, and nothing got proven, it got closed due to bashing. The consensus what what it should have been and the feats were better. Just because 3 or 4 people choose not to see that it isn't my problem.

And why is this turning into Wolverine vs Spider-Man? I am *not* doing this argument for the 10,000th time. doh

*edit* Are you really saying Gorgon is stronger. Dear god. Spider-Man has affected him with hits, and Spider-Man has shattered tanks and lifted a building. This is almost too stupid to continue. Not to mention Cap, DD, and Punisher have affected him with their hits as well. I'm going to cry.

Do you have any strength feats like those mentioned above? Nope.

Wolvy has aslo blitzed thor and thor commented on his speed which again is comparable to spidey but like I said before... even though wolverine had all of that speed, it still wasn't enough for gorgon. Like I told you before... elektra has stabbed spidey, went h2h with him landing blows... hell, even daredevil and cap has done this but like I am going to CONTINUOUSLY tell you until you understand, people in these tiers has fought gorgon "and could not match his speed". What is so hard for you to understand about this cmaster?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Though I don't agree with carver, you don't wanna use thor, because despite how much people dislike it, Thor pretty much stated he was slower then Wolverine. So argueing spiderman blizting thor against someone like carver not going to help you.

also spiderman did not really blizt wolverien in secret warriors. Wolverine attack him by jumping straight in the air and spiderman back handed him, thats not a speed blizt. are you still arguing that wolverine is as fast as spiderman, seriously?

Originally posted by Starscream M
are you still arguing that wolverine is as fast as spiderman, seriously?
how did you get that from my post?


Also how does not think or stating that spiderman did not speed blizt wolverine equate to one argueing he as fast?

honest get the **** out.

your a waste of time.

Originally posted by carver9
Wolvy has aslo blitzed thor and thor commented on his speed which again is comparable to spidey but like I said before... even though wolverine had all of that speed, it still wasn't enough for gorgon. Like I told you before... elektra has stabbed spidey, went h2h with him landing blows... hell, even daredevil and cap has done this but like I am going to CONTINUOUSLY tell you until you understand, people in these tiers has fought gorgon "and could not match his speed". What is so hard for you to understand about this cmaster? Spider-Man has blitzed a team of Bishop, Raidactive Man, Blizzard, and Mr. Fantastic, he's also out done the X-Men in speed. Spider-Man would have had to have been faster to do that.

Spider-man holds back against Cap and other humans. How about we use his good feats instead of his bad. Like going against Carnage and dodging him even though he has no Spider Sense and he's MUCH faster than Wolverine and Elektra too. There is blitzing and moving so fast that nobody can see you.

You can't talk about understanding because you clearly lack it.

Gorgon is not stronger than Spider-Man and he doesn't have better feats in another league any physical area especially in feats, but I hate feat wars. So I'm not going into that.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
how did you get that from my post?


Also how does not think or stating that spiderman did not speed blizt wolverine equate to one argueing he as fast?

honest get the **** out.

your a waste of time. ok so you admit spiderman IS faster than logan then?

Lol on topic because I know where this is going.

If his stone stare isn't working I don't see Gorgon winning.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spider-Man has blitzed a team of Bishop, Raidactive Man, Blizzard, and Mr. Fantastic, he's also out done the X-Men in speed. Spider-Man would have had to have been faster to do that.

.
still disagree thats a speed blizt of anyone other then Mr. fantastic. They werent even looking at him, thats nothing more the sucker punching several inividuals who were in mid combat, while speed blizting just mr fantastic.

also disagree with spiderman x-men crap vest. All he did was back hand wolverien which is far froma speed blizt, webb colossus eyes, rougue and NC, all of which is pis (nc can teleport out, colossus easily strong enough to ripp it off, and rouge is as well. not sure thats the best arguement. But meh not like carver arguements any better.

Originally posted by Starscream M
ok so you admit spiderman IS faster than logan then?
this is not relevent to the thread at all.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master


Gorgon is not stronger than Spider-Man
agreed

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
still disagree thats a speed blizt of anyone other then Mr. fantastic. They werent even looking at him, thats nothing more the sucker punching several inividuals who were in mid combat, while speed blizting just mr fantastic.

also disagree with spiderman x-men crap vest. All he did was back hand wolverien which is far froma speed blizt, webb colossus eyes, rougue and NC, all of which is pis (nc can teleport out, colossus easily strong enough to ripp it off, and rouge is as well. not sure thats the best arguement. But meh not like carver arguements any better. They were all looking at him except for one person. How you got that they were all not looking is beyond me. Although if he *did* do that before they turned around then that would be fast either way.

He still knocked them on their ass. Can he beat them all at the same time in a forum match? Nope, but he can blitz them and get the hell out.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They were all looking at him except for one person. How you got that they were all not looking is beyond me. Although if he *did* do that before they turned around then that would be fast either way.

He still knocked them on their ass. Can he beat them all at the same time in a forum match? Nope, but he can blitz them and get the hell out.
Becuase they werent. you can even tell by position of there bodies. They were all fighting other people and he attack them all in mid combat while he was making his way towards mr. fantastic. In fact if what your trying to argue is true, that would mean they were all standing in a line faicng spiderman which is absurd during a super hero brawl. It fast but not as impressive as people try and pretend it is. Honestly I think I gunna have to go through all my civil war issues and scans them to put this myth to rest. Becuase I almopst 100% certain one of the tie ins shows the event from another angle and with out a doubt we can see that only mr fantastic was looking at him, the others were preoccupied.

Knocking people on there ass does not equate to speed blizt.


No he can't blizt them all in a forum match, your vastly overrestimating spidermans speed and vastly underrating the x-men. NC, wolverine have both shown to easily keep up with spiderman, cyclopes has friggin reacted and tagged quick silber wiht his optic blasts, and rougue at the time could move as fast as mrs marvel who posses superhuman speed.

I already posted it and explained that everyone except Blizzard was looking at him.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I already posted it and explained that everyone except Blizzard was looking at him.
except there werent, and I completely disagreed with your view of the event, honestly believe it was blinded by spidy glasses.

Think about what your argueing? so during a massice superhero brawl, group of lets say 7 super hero's were standing in a straight line looking at spiderman? are you kidding me? How can you logically tell me that makes senses?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Becuase they werent. you can even tell by position of there bodies. They were all fighting other people and he attack them all in mid combat while he was making his way towards mr. fantastic. In fact if what your trying to argue is true, that would mean they were all standing in a line faicng spiderman which is absurd during a super hero brawl. It fast but not as impressive as people try and pretend it is. Honestly I think I gunna have to go through all my civil war issues and scans them to put this myth to rest. Becuase I almopst 100% certain one of the tie ins shows the event from another angle and with out a doubt we can see that only mr fantastic was looking at him, the others were preoccupied.

Knocking people on there ass does not equate to speed blizt.


No he can't blizt them all in a forum match, your vastly overrestimating spidermans speed and vastly underrating the x-men. NC, wolverine have both shown to easily keep up with spiderman, cyclopes has friggin reacted and tagged quick silber wiht his optic blasts, and rougue at the time could move as fast as mrs marvel who posses superhuman speed. They were looking at him except for one.

I said he can knock them on their ass not beat them. Don't twist my words around. He did it and he has done it several times to several teams. Superman can "keep up" with Flash to an extent too... I only see one side being blinded here. When a character has shown to do something constantly over and over it doesn't count.

But when Gorgon does something that isn't even a portrayal of his ability being discussed it counts? Man that sounds fair.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/10/agilityattacks5superpow.th.jpg

1. Bishop: He looks towards him and tries to shoot at him there is absolutely noone else he could have shot at. He's not turned away take a look at his feet.

2. Doc Samson: Looks into another direction AFTER he was kicked by Spider-man his whole upper body moved sideways, if you take a look at his legs you can see that he was looking into the same direction as Bishop.

3. Radioactive Man: Leans back his upper body after the kick by looking at his belly you can see that it's streched and of course that he was already firing at Spider-man with his radiation.

4. Blizzard: That's the only one who really isn't watching in his direction, by taking a look at his neck and shoulders you can see taht he had his back turned at Spidey.

5. Mr. Fantastic: Nothing to argue he was trying to catch Spider-man from the beginning with his hands and looking at him non stop.

6. Mr. Fantastic: I agree it truly is.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They were looking at him except for one.

I said he can knock them on their ass not beat them. Don't twist my words around. He did it and he has done it several times to several teams. Superman can "keep up" with Flash to an extent too... I only see one side being blinded here. When a character has shown to do something constantly over and over it doesn't count.

But when Gorgon does something that isn't even a portrayal of his ability being discussed it counts? Man that sounds fair.
no they werent. you can even tell by the position of there bodies. doesent even make sense. You always talk about using logic in debates, why can't you see how illogical your arguement is. so group of 7 heros decided in a fight to stand in straight line staring at spiderman? how does that make any senses?


never said you beat them, when did I say that? So has wolverine, but I bet you be the first to argue against him blizting spiderman and group of hero's. Wolverine has just as many him vs team battles as spiderman, you dont seem me trying to argue him blizting teams dispite the fact he done it. So really who the one blinded here?

I never said it counted. that carver and your debate, dont bring me into it.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Think about what your argueing? so during a massice superhero brawl, group of lets say 7 super hero's were standing in a straight line looking at spiderman? are you kidding me? How can you logically tell me that makes senses? It's comics, massive brawls always have to be taken with a grain of salt otherwise I could argue why someone like Sentry wasn't soloing the whole other team etc.. I don't have to scans of the whole battle at hand but I'm sure as hell I could show you lot's of "very unlikely" situations.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/10/agilityattacks5superpow.th.jpg

1. Bishop: He looks towards him and tries to shoot at him there is absolutely noone else he could have shot at. He's not turned away take a look at his feet.

2. Doc Samson: Looks into another direction AFTER he was kicked by Spider-man his whole upper body moved sideways, if you take a look at his legs you can see that he was looking into the same direction as Bishop.

3. Radioactive Man: Leans back his upper body after the kick by looking at his belly you can see that it's streched and of course that he was already firing at Spider-man with his radiation.

4. Blizzard: That's the only one who really isn't watching in his direction, by taking a look at his neck and shoulders you can see taht he had his back turned at Spidey.

5. Mr. Fantastic: Nothing to argue he was trying to catch Spider-man from the beginning with his hands and looking at him non stop.

6. Mr. Fantastic: I agree it truly is.
agreed.


no in fact if you look at his leg he was looking to his left and spiderman hit him.

again look at him he was looking to his right about to fire an attack and spiderman attacked him.

blizzard clearly was not looking at him.


agree.


again how cna you sit here and tell me that during a super hero brawl that 5 or 6 hero would be standing in a line looking at spiderman, it not even logical.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
no they werent. you can even tell by the position of there bodies. doesent even make sense. You always talk about using logic in debates, why can't you see how illogical your arguement is. so group of 7 heros decided in a fight to stand in straight line staring at spiderman? how does that make any senses?


never said you beat them, when did I say that? So has wolverine, but I bet you be the first to argue against him blizting spiderman and group of hero's. Wolverine has just as many him vs team battles as spiderman, you dont seem me trying to argue him blizting teams dispite the fact he done it. So really who the one blinded here?

I never said it counted. that carver and your debate, dont bring me into it. They got blitzed, Mr. Fantastic commented on it.

Wolverine hasn't done as well against teams straight up as Spider-Man has, hell he even has foes that team up on him in groups as an official group. He's made for teams like Wolverine is made for bricks.

Wolverine would never blitz Spider-Man without a plot device much less him in a group. Spider-Sense wouldn't allow it anyways.

Carver is your best friend.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
It's comics, massive brawls always have to be taken with a grain of salt otherwise I could argue why someone like Sentry wasn't soloing the whole other team etc.. I don't have to scans of the whole battle at hand but I'm sure as hell I could show you lot's of "very unlikely" situations.
I gunna scan them all, becuase your all got your spidy blinders on. They were fighting other guys, simply the focus was not on who they were fighting but spidy attacking mister fantastic which is why people think it was some super speed blizt but it wasent. He hit three guys who were looking and fighting other characters. Honestly the fact blizzard clearly looking the other why is clear evidence that they were not simply all focused on spiderman and there were other enemies around them.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They got blitzed, Mr. Fantastic commented on it.

Wolverine hasn't done as well against teams straight up as Spider-Man has, hell he even has foes that team up on him in groups as an official group. He's made for teams like Wolverine is made for bricks.

Wolverine would never blitz Spider-Man without a plot device much less him in a group. Spider-Sense wouldn't allow it anyways.

Carver is your best friend.
No he commenting on the fact he can't even react to spidermans movements, it clear the other were not all focused on spidy.


yes he has, honestly just becuase we don't bring it up is not becuase he does not do well against them, it becuase unlike with spidy, if I bring up wolveirne doing it, we get a shit load of haters bashing it, also don't think single characters against teams is good evidences, becuase teams job hard. Actaully this year alone wolverine taken it to at least 3 teams.

Nor would spiderman blizt wolverine. nor would superhuman senses.

lol

Sounds like Wolvie blinders, something we don't want to admit because it hurts the argument. I haven't really seen anyone else disagree and it's pretty obvious.

I'm not entirely following the thread what was the point of bringing up this feat anyways?

And damn this for becoming Wolverine vs Spider-Man. Again.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Sounds like Wolvie blinders, something we don't want to admit because it hurts the argument. I haven't really seen anyone else disagree and it's pretty obvious.
Why would me liking wolveirne have anything to do with spiderman? What arguement does it hurt?


and the only other person in this thread is spiderman fanboy, so points ratehr irrelevent.



I simply think people tend to mis interupt context of events, and it happen with spiderman before. Remeber when that suposed spiderman blizting a super human feat was constantly posted few years back in almost every spiderman thread, and it turned out to be mentally unstable person pretending to be a superhero...........

I plan to go through my civil war and tie in issue to prove that it is most certainly spiderman blinder people have on rather then 6 hero decided to fight spiderman by lining up in a line........which honestly in it self is absurd. I also twitter (once I find out how it works) and ask the writer of the issue himself so we can put this myth to rest.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I also twitter (once I find out how it works) and ask the writer of the issue himself so we can put this myth to rest.

jesus....you've reached super saiyan level 4 wolverine fanboydom...congrats

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
And damn this for becoming Wolverine vs Spider-Man. Again.
? this is not wolverine vs spiderman nor was I trying to make it to be. I trying to debate feats and statements made by yourself that spiderman can speed blizt and x-men team in forum fight (though not win). You argued that he foughten super hero teams many times, and I counter with that wolverine done the same which he has as much as spiderman (he foughten numerous x-men team, his rouge teaming up, alpha flight teams ect.). Though I not about to try and argue wolveirne blizting spiderman and the avengers.

Originally posted by Starscream M
jesus....you've reached super saiyan level 4 wolverine fanboydom...congrats
why? becuase I want to put something to rest that I think people are not looking at logically.

yes it makes complete senses that 6 heros decided the best tactic for fighting spiderman was to line up in a row........or how about the more logical approach which is there were lined up ebcuase they were fighting other hero's and spiderman on his way to attacking mister fantastic decided to crack a few destracted heads.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
and the only other person in this thread is spiderman fanboy, so points ratehr irrelevent. I give Spider-man way more losses here than you guys admit that Wolverine looses you have no right here to play the "fanboy" card.

Or do I need to bump the "Klaw vs. Wolverine" thread? biscuits

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
why? becuase I want to put something to rest that I think people are not looking at logically.

yes it makes complete senses that 6 heros decided the best tactic for fighting spiderman was to line up in a row........or how about the more logical approach which is there were lined up ebcuase they were fighting other hero's and spiderman on his way to attacking mister fantastic decided to crack a few destracted heads. I don't disagree with you...but I think its extreme and futile to twitter the writer to answer your question when he won't give a shit

You use twitter? I meant the scan in general I've seen agreement all around on it. Where they were standing doesn't affect the blitz.

Let's not bash. Let's get along.

The thread is becoming W vs S because of Carver. Damn him.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I give Spider-man way more losses here than you guys admit that Wolverine looses you have no right here to play the "fanboy" card.

Or do I need to bump the "Klaw vs. Wolverine" thread? biscuits
No you dont and for starters I don't even think wolverien takes the majority from spiderman. I know for a fact you think spiderman takes a solid majority from wolverine.


Why would I care if you bumped a thread that I had no part in? sweet threat lol.




anyways i said fanboy, because I was gunna say fan, but I am also a fan of spiderman him being my second favorite character, and you clearly have a love of spiderman beyond myself, so only thing I could think of was fanboy. Not that I necessarily think you act in such a manner, i just did not know what a step above my level of like for spiderman would be consider.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You use twitter? I meant the scan in general I've seen agreement all around on it. Where they were standing doesn't affect the blitz.

Let's not bash. Let's get along.

The thread is becoming W vs S because of Carver. Damn him.
naw I don't use twitter, I actually don't even understand what it is. Seems more or less a user name for blogs or some crap. I was gunna try and figure it out, becuase I have a few questions for some comic writers.

actaully it does. becuase it not really a blizt if three of the characters he hits arnt even looking at him and are focused on other combatants. But perhaps my view on what a blizt is different from yours. Though i do agree he blizt mr fantastic and bishop.


I dident bash.




lol true.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't disagree with you...but I think its extreme and futile to twitter the writer to answer your question when he won't give a shit
I don't, for the msot part thats why they have them.




As for the thread, I think Brock vs Gorgon would be interesting.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
naw I don't use twitter, I actually don't even understand what it is. Seems more or less a user name for blogs or some crap. I was gunna try and figure it out, becuase I have a few questions for some comic writers.

actaully it does. becuase it not really a blizt if three of the characters he hits arnt even looking at him and are focused on other combatants. But perhaps my view on what a blizt is different from yours. Though i do agree he blizt mr fantastic and bishop.


I dident bash.




lol true. They were looking at him. Now make up with Brucey.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They were looking at him. Now make up with Brucey.
but they werent, why would they line up like that duringa super hero brawl, it complerely illogical. what is logical is that they were lined up like that facing other enemies to the left and the right, which is what was happening........





**** him, he a moron

Originally posted by Parmaniac

lol.


what issue is that scan from again? is it civil war 4?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
lol.


what issue is that scan from again? is it civil war 4? Civil War 07

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
but they werent, why would they line up like that duringa super hero brawl, it complerely illogical. what is logical is that they were lined up like that facing other enemies to the left and the right, which is what was happening........





**** him, he a moron If you made up with him it'd help you see things clearly.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan

**** him, he a moron gee, I love you too

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Civil War 07
it was that late, oh yea I am an idiot, he was hitting mr. fantasic which means he had already switch sides

Originally posted by Starscream M
gee, I love you too
I was kidding........I swear it........

You two should so totally date.

It was the final battle, the only thing I really remember is Cap looking around and and tell everyone to stop fighting cause the whole city was destroyed. Then he surrendered. Namor also showed up with his army at somepoint.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
It was the final battle, the only thing I really remember is Cap looking around and and tell everyone to stop fighting cause the whole city was destroyed. Then he surrendered. Namor also showed up with his army at somepoint.
true. I gunna go re read it soon.

Namor showed up? Wasent that in a tie in?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You two should so totally date.
New winner for creepiest thing ever said on the board goes to.........C-MASTER

IIRC he and his atlantean army joined the final battle, I could be wrong and it was in a tie in in one of the smaller battles they had before.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
New winner for creepiest thing ever said on the board goes to.........C-MASTER Love knows no bounds.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Love knows no bounds.

I see you're happy now. I'll pm him about it.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spider-Man has blitzed a team of Bishop, Raidactive Man, Blizzard, and Mr. Fantastic, he's also out done the X-Men in speed. Spider-Man would have had to have been faster to do that.

Spider-man holds back against Cap and other humans. How about we use his good feats instead of his bad. Like going against Carnage and dodging him even though he has no Spider Sense and he's MUCH faster than Wolverine and Elektra too. There is blitzing and moving so fast that nobody can see you.

You can't talk about understanding because you clearly lack it.

Gorgon is not stronger than Spider-Man and he doesn't have better feats in another league any physical area especially in feats, but I hate feat wars. So I'm not going into that.

Aahhhh... so you are bringing up the xmen fight? Why not bring up the fight where spiderman say this AFTER the xmen fight "he's faster than me BUT no one is faster than me" doubting himself... questioning his speed against wolvy. Now let's bring up their other encounter after their first fight. Hhhmmm... wolvy is on the roof scouting and spidey attacks him thinking that wolvy is a clone... spidey tries to blitz him, wolvy dodge the blitz. Spidey then tries to blitz wolvy again and punch him but wolverine grabs him during this blitz and kicks him in the stomach. Spidey tries to fight again which ends with wolvy claws to his throat and guess what, in that comic spidey yet again comments on wolvy speed.

They meet again, wolvy makes it simple and just blitz spiderman into a wall and put his claws to his throat.

Spiderman only has one good showing against logan and that is when he web logan all up but the sad thing is, even in that fight, logan wasn't even paying parker any attention and parker was fearing for his life. Is parker fast, suuuure, is he faster than logan, debatable, especially if we go by their showings against each other, like parker spider sense going off but he was still unable to prevent a blitz from wolvy which ended with wolvy stabbing him in the chest.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
can I see these feats? if there a section of the respect thread that has it or something, feel free if it either to post the link to the page, rather then wasting your time posting scans. The hread is a real mess, dont think you'll be able to find a thing. He's one.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=7086456
There are others like when he reads prisoners mind at a distance, ill post them later. TP is basically what symbiotes use to controle their hosts.


Originally posted by carver9
Aahhhh... so you are bringing up the xmen fight? Why not bring up the fight where spiderman say this AFTER the xmen fight "he's faster than me BUT no one is faster than me" doubting himself... questioning his speed against wolvy. Now let's bring up their other encounter after their first fight. Hhhmmm... wolvy is on the roof scouting and spidey attacks him thinking that wolvy is a clone... spidey tries to blitz him, wolvy dodge the blitz. Spidey then tries to blitz wolvy again and punch him but wolverine grabs him during this blitz and kicks him in the stomach. Spidey tries to fight again which ends with wolvy claws to his throat and guess what, in that comic spidey yet again comments on wolvy speed.

They meet again, wolvy makes it simple and just blitz spiderman into a wall and put his claws to his throat.

Spiderman only has one good showing against logan and that is when he web logan all up but the sad thing is, even in that fight, logan wasn't even paying parker any attention and parker was fearing for his life. Is parker fast, suuuure, is he faster than logan, debatable, especially if we go by their showings against each other, like parker spider sense going off but he was still unable to prevent a blitz from wolvy which ended with wolvy stabbing him in the chest.
Ugh.. context, man? First of all, Wolverine has never. EVER. blitzed Spider-man and he never will or possibly could. The time when Logan "blitzed" Spider-man and put claws to his face you forgot to mention that they were teamed up. They werent fighting, or eving sparring. Wolverine simply grabbed Spider-man and poped his claws in the middle of conversation. You wanna count that as blitz you might as well count Spider-man kicking Logan out of window or webbing him up in an alley as a blitz. Again, context matters. The time Spider-man doubted his speed was because of his CIS, he also was affraid he might die for some reason. Doesnt change the fact that Logan didnt lay a finger on him throughout the entire battle until Spider-man allowed him to, even thought Spider-man commented that he's fighting "slow" because of the state of mind he was in. When they met on the rooftop, Spider-man thought he's fighting some clown dressed up as Wolverine. That changes a lot. Yeah Logan tagged him, great for him, but so did Ox and Fancy Dan, that's what happpens when his CIS kicks in, doesnt make Ox as fast as Spider-man. Again context matters. Wolverine is fast, but he's not Spider-man fast. And I can show you a dozen scans of him trying to gutt Spider-man and not succeeding. Spider-man cant blitz Wolverine, Logan is too good for that. But Spier-man srtill has a definite speed advantage over him.

Originally posted by SamZED
Ugh.. context, man? First of all, Wolverine has never. EVER. blitzed Spider-man and he never will or possibly could. The time when Logan "blitzed" Spider-man and put claws to his face you forgot to mention that they were teamed up. They werent fighting, or eving sparring. Wolverine simply grabbed Spider-man and poped his claws in the middle of conversation. You wanna count that as blitz you might as well count Spider-man kicking Logan out of window or webbing him up in an alley as a blitz. Again, context matters. The time Spider-man doubted his speed was because of his CIS, he also was affraid he might die for some reason. Doesnt change the fact that Logan didnt lay a finger on him throughout the entire battle until Spider-man allowed him to, even thought Spider-man commented that he's fighting "slow" because of the state of mind he was in. When they met on the rooftop, Spider-man thought he's fighting some clown dressed up as Wolverine. That changes a lot. Yeah Logan tagged him, great for him, but so did Ox and Fancy Dan, that's what happpens when his CIS kicks in, doesnt make Ox as fast as Spider-man. Again context matters. Wolverine is fast, but he's not Spider-man fast. And I can show you a dozen scans of him trying to gutt Spider-man and not succeeding. Spider-man cant blitz Wolverine, Logan is too good for that. But Spier-man srtill has a definite speed advantage over him.

All of this is your opinion, especially since we have scenes of Spiderman complimenting Wolverines speed TWICE whereas Wolverine has never said anything about Spidermans speed. You can say "Wolverine isnt a complimentive guy" but he complimented Gorgons speed throughout the arc. You could show me things that Spiderman has done with his speed that Wolvy might have not done but I could show you things with Wolvy speed that he has done that Spiderman have not done.

Their speed is debatable and arguing this is futile. You bring up the fact that Wolverine didnt lay a claw on Spidey during their first encounter, Wolverine wasnt trying to and he made that plain and clear when he jumped on top of Spiderman and instead of clawing him, he decides to to punch him. Then he also made it clear when Spidey was punching him in the face and he was smiling.

Didnt Spiderman recently struggle to even tag Daredevil (a controlled Daredevil but still the same to me)? You all overate his speed... sure he is fast but going by showings he doesnt have a speed gap over Cap, Elektra, punisher shot him, Daredevil has good showings against him, and the list goes on.

All of their speed feats are comparable and still fall short to someone like Gorgon.

All you're doing is lowballing Spider-Man while hyping up Wolverine characters. Just like you do with Superman. You don't want to use the Xmen fight but you want to pick the fight that you like where he *let* Wolverine jump on him? Wolverine can be hurt and has been hurt by people weaker than Spider-Man and he has been hurt by his punches. To say otherwise is almost too stupid to even argue.

the same argument goes to spiderman as well...... if you wanna lowball, lowball both or find average ground or go by high end... or go by panel history fights between the two.

also neither are in this fight

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
All you're doing is lowballing Spider-Man while hyping up Wolverine characters. Just like you do with Superman. You don't want to use the Xmen fight but you want to pick the fight that you like where he *let* Wolverine jump on him? Wolverine can be hurt and has been hurt by people weaker than Spider-Man and he has been hurt by his punches. To say otherwise is almost too stupid to even argue.

Im not lowballing Spiderman... I'm giving FACTS. Tell me some high showings... ok, you bring up Spiderman blitzing Mr. Fantastic and his group. I can bring up Wolverine fighting 300 super humans and killing all of them without damage and the thing about it, he had just woke up from a coma. Or I can bring up him soloing the xmen, soloing the xforce, soling Alpha flight, taking on the fantastic four, etc, etc. You bring up Spidey fighting Thor... I bring up Wolverine also blitzing Thor and Thor even comments on how fast Wolverine is. You bring up Spiderman fighting the xmen (all the way back in the 80's), Wolverine has had so many upgrades after that, that its kind of pointless to even bring up BUT I didnt take the feat away from him, what I said was, right after that fight, they fought one on one and Spiderman questioned his speed against Wolvy.

What other feats are there to bring up? Both have comparable feats and its mainly due to their skill and speed. You are over hyping Spiderman so that you can have an argument to suggest that he is on Gorgon level when all in all, he isnt.

i fully agree with carver,,, and i dont think anyone aside from cmaster remotely thinks spidey is on the same lvl as gorgon in speed.. well no one on kmc,,.. you can find lots at cv...

Carver? Where was I overhyping? I've said everything the character has done. You rank Spider-Man under just about any Wolverine related character just like you rank Superman under just about anybody. Typical.
Until you prove Gorgon being stronger this is a waste of time. I can't even believe you are arguing something so silly.

Originally posted by King Castle
the same argument goes to spiderman as well...... if you wanna lowball, lowball both or find average ground or go by high end... or go by panel history fights between the two.

also neither are in this fight It goes to all characters which is why I hate using featwars. To sit there and say that Spider-Man can't keep up with street levelers and then say he's weaker than Gorgon with no proof is simply retarded.

Spider-Man's own villians are faster than the aforementioned and they don't trigger his Spider-Sense, but he can't keep up with someone slower, come again?

Using crossover matches where they will inevitably "draw" is an exercise in futility because they are both popular characters hence why we use forums in the first place. Gorgon is not physically superior to the symbiotes or Spider-Man. The symbiotes can see in all directions. Until some proof otherwise come in that's worth two shits, then this is a waste of time.

Spider-man vs Mr. Fantastic is about an average showing, they aren't really at his speed anyways. Spider-Man has far higher far better feats.

Can someone post up Wolverine and Thor?

Originally posted by King Castle
i fully agree with carver,,, and i dont think anyone aside from cmaster remotely thinks spidey is on the same lvl as gorgon in speed.. well no one on kmc,,.. you can find lots at cv... I don't think anybody except fanboy Wolverine supporters think that Wolverine is as fast as Spider-Man.

I said they have comparable speed, which they do. Unless you choose to prove it. They both use their speed in different ways and Gorgon has no feats above him. Especially in strength.

Does anybody notice a trend here in any Wolverine, Sabretooth, Gorgon, Omega Red thread? The same people arguing for him over and over and over again. The same people that the forum laughs at.

I wouldn't worry about what carver thinks, he's still healing from his spanking in the Iron Man vs Akuma thread.

And don't get me started with you ... you say some of the worst things on the forum.

almost your entire argument has bn nothing but bashing rather then making points.. insulting ppl b/c they dont share the same spiderman view as you.. talking about how you dont wanna post here how you are tired of the ppl here.. if you dont like it here then dont post in the thread just to say that and just leave

i posted a pic in the 1st page that shows venom sym not having full visual by showing spidey standing behind it while its keeping watch,,,

you dont make assumptions of powers b/c how you think it should work you do it with panel evidence and history of it being shown working..

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Carver? Where was I overhyping? I've said everything the character has done. You rank Spider-Man under just about any Wolverine related character just like you rank Superman under just about anybody. Typical.
Until you prove Gorgon being stronger this is a waste of time. I can't even believe you are arguing something so silly.

It goes to all characters which is why I hate using featwars. To sit there and say that Spider-Man can't keep up with street levelers and then say he's weaker than Gorgon with no proof is simply retarded.

Spider-Man's own villians are faster than the aforementioned and they don't trigger his Spider-Sense, but he can't keep up with someone slower, come again?

Using crossover matches where they will inevitably "draw" is an exercise in futility because they are both popular characters hence why we use forums in the first place. Gorgon is not physically superior to the symbiotes or Spider-Man. The symbiotes can see in all directions. Until some proof otherwise come in that's worth two shits, then this is a waste of time.

Spider-man vs Mr. Fantastic is about an average showing, they aren't really at his speed anyways. Spider-Man has far higher far better feats.

Can someone post up Wolverine and Thor?

I don't think anybody except fanboy Wolverine supporters think that Wolverine is as fast as Spider-Man.

I said they have comparable speed, which they do. Unless you choose to prove it. They both use their speed in different ways and Gorgon has no feats above him. Especially in strength.

Does anybody notice a trend here in any Wolverine, Sabretooth, Gorgon, Omega Red thread? The same people arguing for him over and over and over again. The same people that the forum laughs at.

I wouldn't worry about what carver thinks, he's still healing from his spanking in the Iron Man vs Akuma thread.

I never said Gorgon was stronger, I said that he could POSSIBLY be stronger. Stop bringing up Superman, especially since I havent gave him a lost in a whiile against his peers. I dont know where you all are getting the fact that I hate the character when all in all, when he is pitted against people, I give him the win.

What I told you about Gorgons vs Spiderman strength is that Spiderman has punched at Wolverine TWICE to no avail... Wolverine tanked it and during on point, he laughed at Spidermans effort. What I also told you is that Gorgon and Wolverine was in the same predicument as Spidey and Wolvy and Wolverine face was busted up from punches from Gorgon and he was almost KOED whereas again, Spiderman punches did jack to him.

The only reason I am saying that you are over hyping the character is because you are saying that Spidey is on Gorgon level of speed when all in all, he isnt. Do you think Spidey could outright fight Elektra on a physical level without getting touched. Do you think Spiderman could blitz both Elektra AND Wolverine at the same time before they even get the chance to move a muscle? It aint happening.

Wolverine alone (without spiderman using his webbing) could pull a majority against Spiderman in a melee, and Spidey vs Elektra in a melee is debatable. Well, Gorgon took on the both of them and blitzed the hell out of them.

I'm about to make some threads... I will be back.

Originally posted by King Castle
almost your entire argument has bn nothing but bashing rather then making points..

i posted a pic in the 1st page that shows venom sym not having full visual by showing spidey standing behind it while its keeping watch,,,

you dont make assumptions of powers b/c how you think it should work you do it with panel evidence and history of it being shown working.. That's an outright lie. I've made this argument several times before you even got here.

Gorgon is *not* physically superior to the symbiotes. And contrary to Carver he isn't even in another league from Spider-Man physically. I already said they had comparable speed. Carver is so thickheaded that he annoys me by dragging this into Wolverine vs Spider-Man.

The reason I say this is because the Symbiotes are on a higher level than Spider-Man. Gorgon is more or less comparable (except in strength) despite you making an attempted spite thread (which blew up in your face) symbiotes can see in more than one direction. They don't have "eyes".

Originally posted by carver9
I never said Gorgon was stronger, I said that he could POSSIBLY be stronger. Stop bringing up Superman, especially since I havent gave him a lost in a whiile against his peers. I dont know where you all are getting the fact that I hate the character when all in all, when he is pitted against people, I give him the win.

What I told you about Gorgons vs Spiderman strength is that Spiderman has punched at Wolverine TWICE to no avail... Wolverine tanked it and during on point, he laughed at Spidermans effort. What I also told you is that Gorgon and Wolverine was in the same predicument as Spidey and Wolvy and Wolverine face was busted up from punches from Gorgon and he was almost KOED whereas again, Spiderman punches did jack to him.

The only reason I am saying that you are over hyping the character is because you are saying that Spidey is on Gorgon level of speed when all in all, he isnt. Do you think Spidey could outright fight Elektra on a physical level without getting touched. Do you think Spiderman could blitz both Elektra AND Wolverine at the same time before they even get the chance to move a muscle? It aint happening.

Wolverine alone (without spiderman using his webbing) could pull a majority against Spiderman in a melee, and Spidey vs Elektra in a melee is debatable. Well, Gorgon took on the both of them and blitzed the hell out of them.

I'm about to make some threads... I will be back. I already posted up Spider-Man blitzing people. He has a better history of it.

He is not stronger than Spider-Man.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
That's an outright lie. I've made this argument several times before you even got here.

Gorgon is *not* physically superior to the symbiotes. And contrary to Carver he isn't even in another league from Spider-Man physically. I already said they had comparable speed. Carver is so thickheaded that he annoys me by dragging this into Wolverine vs Spider-Man.

The reason I say this is because the Symbiotes are on a higher level than Spider-Man. Gorgon is more or less comparable (except in strength) despite you making an attempted spite thread (which blew up in your face) symbiotes can see in more than one direction. They don't have "eyes".

They are not comparable and the only reason that I brought Wolverine up is because he is the center piece of this argument involving Gorgon. Spiderman cant do to Wolverine what Gorgon has done to Wolverine. Spiderman cant be almost a Mile away and blitz Wolverine instantly like Gorgon did.

Im not trying to turn this into a Wolverine vs Spiderman thread but I'm trying to help you open your eyes. Spiderman is fast but there ARE people out there, even meta's, that are faster than him.

Originally posted by carver9
All of this is your opinion, especially since we have scenes of Spiderman complimenting Wolverines speed TWICE whereas Wolverine has never said anything about Spidermans speed. You can say "Wolverine isnt a complimentive guy" but he complimented Gorgons speed throughout the arc. You could show me things that Spiderman has done with his speed that Wolvy might have not done but I could show you things with Wolvy speed that he has done that Spiderman have not done.

Their speed is debatable and arguing this is futile. You bring up the fact that Wolverine didnt lay a claw on Spidey during their first encounter, Wolverine wasnt trying to and he made that plain and clear when he jumped on top of Spiderman and instead of clawing him, he decides to to punch him. Then he also made it clear when Spidey was punching him in the face and he was smiling.

Didnt Spiderman recently struggle to even tag Daredevil (a controlled Daredevil but still the same to me)? You all overate his speed... sure he is fast but going by showings he doesnt have a speed gap over Cap, Elektra, punisher shot him, Daredevil has good showings against him, and the list goes on.

All of their speed feats are comparable and still fall short to someone like Gorgon. None of that was an opinion, I was stating facts. Now saying that Wolverine wasnt trying to gutt Spider-man (when he clearly was) is an opinion. He made several clear attempts to stab him, he couldnt afford to hold back because his best friend's life was at stake, while Spider-man was a nobody to him at that point. He only retracted his claws after Spider-man allowed him to tag him. Logan isnt stupid, he knew Spider-man aint gonna kill him, so there was no longer need to gutt him, he already won the fight the second Spider-man stopped hitting him and backed off letting Logan up and wellcoming him to attack. That's why he retracted his claws. But Until that moment he clearly was attempting to gutt him, nothing suggests that he wasn't. We see him clearly try, he says he's gonna do it, and Spider-man comments that he's trying to. And yet he couldnt. And he was only smiling to freak Spider-man out because he had no other way of stopping him. And that worked. He didnt let him punch him, in fact he was about to throw the finishing blow "here it comes" when started slowing down saying "Mary Jane" but Logan didnt get the chance becasue Spider-man finally started fighting back using his spider sense to guide him.

Complimenting speed, doesnt mean much. Ive never seen Deadpool compliment Wolverine's speed, yet ive seen him say "Holly sh!t! You're FAST!!!" about Spider-man. And keep in mind that Deadpool has matched every Wolverine's speed feat. It doesnt work that way.

I can post Spider-man feats that Logan hasnt matched, you cant post feats that Spider-man wont be able to match unless they involve something like cutting or stabbing, simply because Spider-man doesnt do that. And believe me you cant post any Wolverine speed that I havent see anlready. Again, someone like Deadpool's got speed feats that match some of Spider-man's. Yet you dont see me argue that he's as fast. And when he tried to stab Spider-man during their fight he couldnt do that just like Wolverine couldnt despite trying several time and on many occasions.

Daredevil was clearly upgraded, in their other confrontation with pissed off Spider-man Pete oneshotted Matt. As for Punisher shooting him you wanna bring up low showings of him not being able to dodge a bullet when he's godged thousands of them at the same time? Spider-man recently fought bloodlusted Shang Chi who had a speed and strength upgrade yet Spider-man was dodging him without much trouble while holding back. The list that goes on faids very fast when CIS is off. Same people who give him trouble, normally get oneshotted by pissed off Spider-man in a second. There's a speed gap between him and people like Elektra, Cap and others. That's why he can dodge someone like Logan or Deadpool even though he isnt nearly as skilled as they are. Becuase he has a speed advantage over them.

Gorgon is fast, but I dont see him being faster than Venom Brock who's blitzed Carnage, and did things like catch bullet after it was fired and even catch 3 bullets at the same time. I dont believe he's faster than Spider-man either. Much more experienced? Yes, definitely. Faster? No. The fact that Logan complimented him isnt enough to suggest that.

the syms like venom direct their physical perception to an area and they can make more eyes to see but they dont have 360 degree sight like Carnage does as a default power..

venom is not going to start off seeing all around him b/c he never has and he has bn snucked up on by ppl and this power would have bn great when hunting for ppl rather then directing toward one direction looking for someone who is behind him.

now Venom is faster then spidey but he is also a brute and violent which negates a lot of his speed barely putting him above spidey at times if not equaling him when playin cat and mouse games.

now i dont appreciate you callin my thread a spite thread since that is not why i made it..

now Venom if he has eyes all over the place how will that help him when fighting Gorgon and he uses his stone stare?

it would be a handicap for the sym rather then an advantage.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I already posted up Spider-Man blitzing people. He has a better history of it.

He is not stronger than Spider-Man.

LOL... I never said that Spiderman couldnt blitz people but he isnt blitzing Elektra OR Wolverine. Sure, he can blitz Mr. Fantastic, SURE, he can blitz cage but he failed to blitz Wolvy, he FAILED to blitz cap (and got owned) and he has failed to blitz Elektra.

Do you want to know why he cant blitz them? Their speeds are comparable. Do you want to know why Gorgon blitz Elektra to the point where she couldnt even touch him and she had a gun and a sword... because Gorgon is faster. Do you want to know why Gorgon blitzed Wolverine TWICE, because Gorgon is faster. Do you want to know why an INJURED Gorgon blitzed both Elektra and Wolverine before they even got the chance to land another attack, because Gorgon is faster.

Spiderman cant do that, no matter how much you like the character, he cant do it. Spiderman isnt blitzing both Elektra and Wolverine at the same time OR defeating them in a melee fight. I love Wolvy but I do not think that Wolvy would blitz both spiderman and Elektra in a melee fight either... thats something that speedsters does and that is what Gorgon is, a true speedster.

here is a scan showing the sym not having 360 degree sightas a default setting

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11136/664875-venom_taking_a_breather.jpg

i can post more but i dont think its really needed.

Originally posted by carver9
thats something that speedsters does and that is what Gorgon is, a true speedster. barker

Originally posted by King Castle
the syms like venom direct their physical perception to an area and they can make more eyes to see but they dont have 360 degree sight like Carnage does as a default power..

venom is not going to start off seeing all around him b/c he never has and he has bn snucked up on by ppl and this power would have bn great when hunting for ppl rather then directing toward one direction looking for someone who is behind him.

now Venom is faster then spidey but he is also a brute and violent which negates a lot of his speed barely putting him above spidey at times if not equaling him when playin cat and mouse games.

now i dont appreciate you callin my thread a spite thread since that is not why i made it..

now Venom if he has eyes all over the place how will that help him when fighting Gorgon and he uses his stone stare?

it would be a handicap for the sym rather then an advantage. Because his eyes arent really eyes but symbiotic goo he sees with.

You didnt want to make a spite thread but wouldnt it be just that if Gorgon could kill all symbiotes within a second simply by looking at them?

Anyway, if you dont mind ill continue this debate, after the whole Spider-man wolverine thing is out of the picture.

i'm sure he didnt mean it at the extreme end but more in that Gorgon has legitimate superhuman Speed/reflex and not just a bullet timer/dodger like other low end meta or peak heroes..

Originally posted by SamZED
None of that was an opinion, I was stating facts. Now saying that Wolverine wasnt trying to gutt Spider-man (when he clearly was) is an opinion. He made several clear attempts to stab him, he couldnt afford to hold back because his best friend's life was at stake, while Spider-man was a nobody to him at that point. He only retracted his claws after Spider-man allowed him to tag him. Logan isnt stupid, he knew Spider-man aint gonna kill him, so there was no longer need to gutt him, he already won the fight the second Spider-man stopped hitting him and backed off letting Logan up and wellcoming him to attack. That's why he retracted his claws. But Until that moment he clearly was attempting to gutt him, nothing suggests that he wasn't. We see him clearly try, he says he's gonna do it, and Spider-man comments that he's trying to. And yet he couldnt. And he was only smiling to freak Spider-man out because he had no other way of stopping him. And that worked. He didnt let him punch him, in fact he was about to throw the finishing blow "here it comes" when started slowing down saying "Mary Jane" but Logan didnt get the chance becasue Spider-man finally started fighting back using his spider sense to guide him.

Complimenting speed, doesnt mean much. Ive never seen Deadpool compliment Wolverine's speed, yet ive seen him say "Holly sh!t! You're FAST!!!" about Spider-man. And keep in mind that Deadpool has matched every Wolverine's speed feat. It doesnt work that way.

I can post Spider-man feats that Logan hasnt matched, you cant post feats that Spider-man wont be able to match unless they involve something like cutting or stabbing, simply because Spider-man doesnt do that. And believe me you cant post any Wolverine speed that I havent see anlready. Again, someone like Deadpool's got speed feats that match some of Spider-man's. Yet you dont see me argue that he's as fast. And when he tried to stab Spider-man during their fight he couldnt do that just like Wolverine couldnt despite trying several time and on many occasions.

Daredevil was clearly upgraded, in their other confrontation with pissed off Spider-man Pete oneshotted Matt. As for Punisher shooting him you wanna bring up low showings of him not being able to dodge a bullet when he's godged thousands of them at the same time? Spider-man recently fought bloodlusted Shang Chi who had a speed and strength upgrade yet Spider-man was dodging him without much trouble while holding back. The list that goes on faids very fast when CIS is off. Same people who give him trouble, normally get oneshotted by pissed off Spider-man in a second. There's a speed gap between him and people like Elektra, Cap and others. That's why he can dodge someone like Logan or Deadpool even though he isnt nearly as skilled as they are. Becuase he has a speed advantage over them.

Gorgon is fast, but I dont see him being faster than Venom Brock who's blitzed Carnage, and did things like catch bullet after it was fired and even catch 3 bullets at the same time. I dont believe he's faster than Spider-man either. Much more experienced? Yes, definitely. Faster? No. The fact that Logan complimented him isnt enough to suggest that.

LOL... please tell me you didnt bring up bullet catching as an argument. Gorgon had 5 men shooting at him with shield gun and he slapped those bullets out of the way like they were nothing and redirected them back at the agents. He did the same with Elektra along with her shield agents. Five men was shooting at him and he slapped the bullets back at him.

This thread isnt about Wolvy and Spiderman and your arguments are MOOT. They are comparable in speed and I do not know why we are even talking about this. Spiderman with an upgrade that stated that he ws going to take Cap out failed to do so and got STOMPED so I do not understand why you bring up the Cap and Spiderman fight for.

Wolverine would never harm Spiderman, EVER, even though Wolvy hates to admit it, they are friends. Wolverine KNOW that he can take Spiderman punches, so why stab him. It has been shown to many times that Wolverine can tank punches from an enraged Spiderman. By the way, Deadpool has complimented Wolverines speed and I wouldnt take anything deadpool say serious anyway... he's an IDIOT.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Does anybody notice a trend here in any Wolverine, Sabretooth, Gorgon, Omega Red thread? The same people arguing for him over and over and over again. The same people that the forum laughs at.



harsh

Originally posted by Parmaniac
barker

LOL... not that kind of true speed... he just have fast reflexes. Why are you picking out parts of my post Parmaniac?LOL

Badabing told me to mess with you, not the other way around.

I only picked this and the other thing out because they were extremely blown out of proportion imo. Because "true speedsters" are people that usually only use speed and non stop blitz people with these flashy lines behind them. I agree that he's fast but definately not a that would be considered a "Speedster ", the other thing was the "thounsands times speed of sound" or something.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I only picked this and the other thing out because they were extremely blown out of proportion imo. Because "true speedsters" are people that usually only use speed and non stop blitz people with these flashy lines behind them. I agree that he's fast but definately not a that would be considered a "Speedster ", the other thing was the "thounsands times speed of sound" or something.

LOL... when I said the "thousands times speed of sound" I wasnt talking about Gorgon, YOYO has ran that fast and her speed was still increasing. This same speedster tried to sneak Gorgon with a blitz while his back was turned fighting someone else and he turned around during her mid blitz, grabbed his sword and chopped her hands off (which lead to everyone saying "no one is that fast".

Originally posted by carver9
LOL... please tell me you didnt bring up bullet catching as an argument. Gorgon had 5 men shooting at him with shield gun and he slapped those bullets out of the way like they were nothing and redirected them back at the agents. He did the same with Elektra along with her shield agents. Five men was shooting at him and he slapped the bullets back at him.

This thread isnt about Wolvy and Spiderman and your arguments are MOOT. They are comparable in speed and I do not know why we are even talking about this. Spiderman with an upgrade that stated that he ws going to take Cap out failed to do so and got STOMPED so I do not understand why you bring up the Cap and Spiderman fight for.

Wolverine would never harm Spiderman, EVER, even though Wolvy hates to admit it, they are friends. Wolverine KNOW that he can take Spiderman punches, so why stab him. It has been shown to many times that Wolverine can tank punches from an enraged Spiderman. By the way, Deadpool has complimented Wolverines speed and I wouldnt take anything deadpool say serious anyway... he's an IDIOT.
He did it with his sword. Lots of people done that. X's bullet deflecting feats is easilly as impressive. Mr. Negative has cut bullets in half in midair. Doesnt make them as fast as Spider-man or Venom. Why should I not mention Venom's feats when debating his speed? IMO that works better than other character's comments about their speed.

Wasnt talking about Spider-man/Cap fight that was full of CIS "ZOMG how do I hit the livving legend" kinda thing. My argument isnt moot. Its based on years of showings and several confrontations. The reason I bring this up is because people do not understand that Spider-man unlike Deadpool, Wolverine and others lack MA skills, so if it wasnt for his superior speed (that he displays time and time again) he would've been killed long ago by Logan, Deadpool or even Puma. His superior speed is what prevents that from happening. Its his ace when fighting people with superior fighting skills.

When they fought in the cemetry, they werent much of friends. In fact Spider-man was an annoyance to him who was stopping Logan from helping his friend. So when he had to choose between the life of some irratating guy who almost got them killed in the restaurant and his best friend's life, he chose to kill Spider-man and outright said that he's gonna do it because Spider-man left him no choice. And he did try. Sure Logan can take his punches, but he couldnt afford to take his punches at that moment because he had little time.

Deadpool isnt an idiot. He's insane. And its not hard to say when he's fooling around or making a serious comment. That time he was seriously impressed. Even his masked looked like "WTF?!". I dont recall him being amazed by Logan's speed tbh.

its really not speed that keeps spidey alive against guys like wolverine and puma, lizard its the precog split second warning that helps compensate for a lack of speed or skill he is missing..

The precog that is sometime written as a cheap alarm clock. In some books it was shown to only help when someone sneakattacked him, I blame writers. The speed is still the main factor. Not to mention, he's fought without his ss on many occasions.

Originally posted by SamZED
He did it with his sword. Lots of people done that. X's bullet deflecting feats is easilly as impressive. Mr. Negative has cut bullets in half in midair. Doesnt make them as fast as Spider-man or Venom. Why should I not mention Venom's feats when debating his speed? IMO that works better than other character's comments about their speed.

Wasnt talking about Spider-man/Cap fight that was full of CIS "ZOMG how do I hit the livving legend" kinda thing. My argument isnt moot. Its based on years of showings and several confrontations. The reason I bring this up is because people do not understand that Spider-man unlike Deadpool, Wolverine and others lack MA skills, so if it wasnt for his superior speed (that he displays time and time again) he would've been killed long ago by Logan, Deadpool or even Puma. His superior speed is what prevents that from happening. Its his ace when fighting people with superior fighting skills.

When they fought in the cemetry, they werent much of friends. In fact Spider-man was an annoyance to him who was stopping Logan from helping his friend. So when he had to choose between the life of some irratating guy who almost got them killed in the restaurant and his best friend's life, he chose to kill Spider-man and outright said that he's gonna do it because Spider-man left him no choice. And he did try. Sure Logan can take his punches, but he couldnt afford to take his punches at that moment because he had little time.

Deadpool isnt an idiot. He's insane. And its not hard to say when he's fooling around or making a serious comment. That time he was seriously impressed. Even his masked looked like "WTF?!". I dont recall him being amazed by Logan's speed tbh.

NNNNOOO, you got it all wrong... it isnt Spidermans speed that gets him past people like Logan, its his speed combined with his Spider Sense.

Logan has never tried to outright kill Spiderman and when he stabbed him in Marvel Knights #13 (a PISSED OFF LOGAN), he felt bad afterwards.

Like I said before, using deadpool as an argument is moot. Deadpool brought a gang of people to aid him in taking on Wolverine and they still was on the losing end and Deadpool had to resort to shooting Wolverine with enough tranqs to drop a t rex. So using him is irrelevant.

Yep, he sure did do it with a sword but does that does not take away from the feat, especially since it was 5 men shooting at him with shield machine guns. I think it would take more work to slice a bullet out of the air vs catching one with your hand.

Originally posted by SamZED
The precog that is sometime written as a cheap alarm clock. The speed is still the main factor. Not to mention, he's fought without his ss on many occasions.

Its not entirely his speed that aids him though... without his spider sense, he would have been dead a long time ago.

Originally posted by carver9
Its not entirely his speed that aids him though... without his spider sense, he would have been dead a long time ago. And without his HF Gorgon and Wolverine would be dead, especially Wolverine due to old age.

Originally posted by SamZED
. Mr. Negative has cut bullets in half in midair. .

I not trying to argue this either way, but this comment just reminded me, Gorgon last issue did just this but to an even greater extent he wait untill a bullet was mere foot or two away moved several feet and cut a bullet in haft before it hit the baron.

Originally posted by carver9
NNNNOOO, you got it all wrong... it isnt Spidermans speed that gets him past people like Logan, its his speed combined with his Spider Sense.

Logan has never tried to outright kill Spiderman and when he stabbed him in Marvel Knights #13 (a PISSED OFF LOGAN), he felt bad afterwards.

Like I said before, using deadpool as an argument is moot. Deadpool brought a gang of people to aid him in taking on Wolverine and they still was on the losing end and Deadpool had to resort to shooting Wolverine with enough tranqs to drop a t rex. So using him is irrelevant.

Yep, he sure did do it with a sword but does that does not take away from the feat, especially since it was 5 men shooting at him with shield machine guns. I think it would take more work to slice a bullet out of the air vs catching one with your hand.
Spider sense wouldnr make much of a difference if he didnt have superior speed to go with it. Imagine trying to dodge someone who has knives in each hand. You think a precog would help much if you werent faster?

In Marvel Knights, they've already known each other for years, I agree he didnt want to stab him then. But he was gonna do it during the cemetry fight. I can also name several examples when Logan actually tries to gutt Spider-man but doesnt succeed.

Please, lets not start Wolverine/Deadpool here too. Deadpool has taken Logan down without any tranqs as often as Logan put Deadpool down. All in all they were always evenly matched. I dont see why Deadpool being surprised by his speed is irrelevant.

Venom has cought one with his hand and cought 3 with his tendrils. I find that pretty impressive.

Originally posted by carver9
Its not entirely his speed that aids him though... without his spider sense, he would have been dead a long time ago. Only if we count him getting ambushed, he's done just finel without his spider sense relying on his speed alone in fights.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I not trying to argue this either way, but this comment just reminded me, Gorgon last issue did just this but to an even greater extent he wait untill a bullet was mere foot or two away moved several feet and cut a bullet in haft before it hit the baron. Yeah, ive read the issue. That was actually very badass.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I not trying to argue this either way, but this comment just reminded me, Gorgon last issue did just this but to an even greater extent he wait untill a bullet was mere foot or two away moved several feet and cut a bullet in haft before it hit the baron.

Do you have a scan of this?

Originally posted by SamZED
Spider sense wouldnr make much of a difference if he didnt have superior speed to go with it. Imagine trying to dodge someone who has knives in each hand. You think a precog would help much if you werent faster?

In Marvel Knights, they've already known each other for years, I agree he didnt want to stab him then. But he was gonna do it during the cemetry fight. I can also name several examples when Logan actually tries to gutt Spider-man but doesnt succeed.

Please, lets not start Wolverine/Deadpool here too. Deadpool has taken Logan down without any tranqs as often as Logan put Deadpool down. All in all they were always evenly matched. I dont see why Deadpool being surprised by his speed is irrelevant.

Venom has cought one with his hand and cought 3 with his tendrils. I find that pretty impressive.

Only if we count him getting ambushed, he's done just finel without his spider sense relying on his speed alone in fights.


OMG, you have no way of proving this. Spiderman spider sense has aided him through battles against some of the most experienced fighters out there. Its more spectacular that Cap has been living all of this time and dodging things vs Spiderman since, well, Cap has to rely on nothing but pure skill vs Spiderman having the aid of a Spider sense and Cap has been ambushed as well.

Spiderman spider sense is the main reason he is still fighting today. His Spider sense has went crazy in EVERY fight he has had with Logan and his spider sense was going off against Cap.

pulled out my old venom comics.. lethal protector the carnage prison escape, the vengeance team up.. bride of venom.. etc etc..

anyways......

spidey speed and precog is also supplemented by terrain use.. i think aside from cap and DD spidey heavily relies on it for the majority of villain fights rather then just combat reflex speed... example look at his fights with lizard, venom, puma etc etc... his speed nor precog are enough never has bn to make him untouchable

Originally posted by carver9
OMG, you have no way of proving this. Spiderman spider sense has aided him through battles against some of the most experienced fighters out there. Its more spectacular that Cap has been living all of this time and dodging things vs Spiderman since, well, Cap has to rely on nothing but pure skill vs Spiderman having the aid of a Spider sense and Cap has been ambushed as well.

Spiderman spider sense is the main reason he is still fighting today. His Spider sense has went crazy in EVERY fight he has had with Logan and his spider sense was going off against Cap. His spider sense doesnt work against Carnage or Venom. Yet he dodges them all the time. Sure they dont have Deadpool's skills but they have the speed feats and tendrils that move faster than bullets but unlike bullets can change their direction. And he dodges them just fine. I honestly dont see Spider-man dodging Logan or Deadpool thanks to his ss alone. Comparable speed wont cut it against them even with precog. better speed + precog however would.





PS: The scans you asked for.
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/8127/sw2100040005.th.jpg http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1583/sw210006.th.jpg

Originally posted by King Castle
pulled out my old venom comics.. lethal protector the carnage prison escape, the vengeance team up.. bride of venom.. etc etc..

anyways......

spidey speed and precog is also supplemented by terrain use.. i think aside from cap and DD spidey heavily relies on it for the majority of villain fights rather then just combat reflex speed... example look at his fights with lizard, venom, puma etc etc... his speed nor precog are enough never has bn to make him untouchable Not untouchable ofcourse, never said that. But he was friends with Puma and Connors for years. That makes it more difficult. He relies on his ss all the time, yes but simply because he's used to. That's why when he gets attacked by a symbiote that doesnt trigger his ss he gets cough off guard very often. But normally dodges them just fine.

venom has beaten and caught spiderman repeatedly and is only alive due to writer protection..venom has grabbed him thrown him through walls slammed him on the ground, chocked spiderman... only reason spidey has a chance is when he is running away swinging through the city using acrobatics with a head start and terrain use...

carnage is just a putz only reason spider is alive not b/c of his speed.

dont credit spidey skills/abilities due to writer protection

Originally posted by SamZED
His spider sense doesnt work against Carnage or Venom. Yet he dodges them all the time. Sure they dont have Deadpool's skills but they have the speed feats and tendrils that move faster than bullets but unlike bullets can change their direction. And he dodges them just fine. I honestly dont see Spider-man dodging Logan or Deadpool thanks to his ss alone. Comparable speed wont cut it against them even with precog. better speed + precog however would.





PS: The scans you asked for.
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/8127/sw2100040005.th.jpg http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1583/sw210006.th.jpg

Thanks for the scans... Gorgon is a beast. Venom isnt as fast as you are making him... just look at his fights with Logan, he STRUGGLES to tag him.

In regards to the Spider Sense comment, I'm really not getting what you are saying... your points arent adding up. If Spiderman is getting hit during a melee confrontation without his Spider Sense, its pretty obvious that is the reason why he does half if not all of the things that he does in a fight.

Originally posted by King Castle
venom has beaten and caught spiderman repeatedly and is onlt alive due to writer protection..venom has grabbed him through him to walls slammed him on the ground, chocked spiderman... only reason spidey has a chase is when he is running away swinging through the city using acrobatics with a head start and terrain use...

carnage is just a putz only reason spider is alive not b/c of his speed.

dont credit spidey skills/abilities due to writer protection You dont have to tell me what Venom did, I happen to read every fight he had with Spider-man. And as I said, Venom's got crazy feats and despite that Spider-man has dodged him just fine on many occasions. He's been running circles around Venom even without any writer's protection. Using his speed and agility.

And dont get me started on his skills, some people believe just because he never took karate lessons it means he cant fight, and the guy has used Iron Fist's attacks against him.

Originally posted by King Castle
dont credit spidey skills/abilities due to writer protection great argument really great it's not that you can apply "writer protection" on pretty much everyone and everything...

you separate it by placing same characters in a neutral setting and see how one would do without any one sided advantages or distractions..

Originally posted by carver9
Thanks for the scans... Gorgon is a beast. Venom isnt as fast as you are making him... just look at his fights with Logan, he STRUGGLES to tag him.

In regards to the Spider Sense comment, I'm really not getting what you are saying... your points arent adding up. If Spiderman is getting hit during a melee confrontation without his Spider Sense, its pretty obvious that is the reason why he does half if not all of the things that he does in a fight.
Np

Which fight? I believe there were few. And tbh I didnt see Venom even try to display any kind of speed in their fights. But dont recall him ever having trouble hitting Logan.

What im saying is, while spider sense is a great power, it's not a get out of jail free card. Spider-man said that himsself. If it wasnt for the said speed I just dont see him dodge say Deadpool thanks to the ss alone since DP is still more skilled.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
great argument really great it's not that you can apply "writer protection" on pretty much everyone and everything...

He does have a point. Look at all of the xmen comics... who is the first person to get attack by a major attack... Wolvy and the only reason why that happens is because he has a healing factor and he can take it.

What are Gorgons powers?

superhuman Speed, telepathy, undead, superhuman durability, HF.. Stone stare... MA and a sword.. might be missing some minor ones.

Originally posted by The MISTER
What are Gorgons powers?

Super speed, super strength, hulk like healing factor, stone stare, telepath, and a martial artist and now he is walking around with a god slayer (sword that has enough power to slay gods.).

Hulk level healing? How strong? Hulks fists are god slayers. who has he beaten before?

Gorgon has Hulk level healing now? Carver you're on a ball today.

And obviously Wolverine doesn't have "writer protection".

Originally posted by carver9
They are not comparable and the only reason that I brought Wolverine up is because he is the center piece of this argument involving Gorgon. Spiderman cant do to Wolverine what Gorgon has done to Wolverine. Spiderman cant be almost a Mile away and blitz Wolverine instantly like Gorgon did.

Im not trying to turn this into a Wolverine vs Spiderman thread but I'm trying to help you open your eyes. Spiderman is fast but there ARE people out there, even meta's, that are faster than him. You're obviously not understanding things. I've made it clear why I hate using featwars and that is because of this high/low nonsense. I was showing you what I could do too, Spider-Man has more of a history so he has more feats to rely on, hence why I think that's an unfair argument.

Spider-Man has already had better blitzing feats that you seem to ignore. I've brought up him against Carnage also.

You're not opening my eyes, because now that I remember correctly you were arguing Gorgon against Wonder Woman and comparing speed and reflexes. Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
harsh Sorry about that. Carver was making my head hurt. ( you did talk about Parm though).

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Gorgon has Hulk level healing now? Carver you're on a ball today.

And obviously Wolverine doesn't have "writer protection".

You're obviously not understanding things. I've made it clear why I hate using featwars and that is because of this high/low nonsense. I was showing you what I could do too, Spider-Man has more of a history so he has more feats to rely on, hence why I think that's an unfair argument.

Spider-Man has already had better blitzing feats that you seem to ignore. I've brought up him against Carnage also.

You're not opening my eyes, because now that I remember correctly you were arguing Gorgon against Wonder Woman and comparing speed and reflexes. Sorry about that. Carver was making my head hurt. ( you did talk about Parm though).

Lol... that wasn't me talking about wonder woman reflexes but I did state that wonder woman is unhittable by character like wolvy since people on wolvy caliber has tagged her.

Yes... hulk level healing. Shrug off any attack.

I know of spidy blitz feats and that's the main reason I put him on wolvy level.

Sorry about making your head hurt, just want you to realize spidey isn't the god of speed.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... that wasn't me talking about wonder woman reflexes but I did state that wonder woman is unhittable by character like wolvy since people on wolvy caliber has tagged her.

Yes... hulk level healing. Shrug off any attack.

I know of spidy blitz feats and that's the main reason I put him on wolvy level.

Sorry about making your head hurt, just want you to realize spidey isn't the god of speed. Spider-Man isn't the god of speed that's Flash.

So he's stronger than Spider-Man and heals better than the Hulk. Where are scans of him healing like Hulk?

.

There's more than one definition of a god. Carver's is Wolverine characters lol.

There's nothing to keep a symbiote out of Gorgons mouth and ears and that's a serious weakness and has been from the beggining. The fatalities are there to prove it. Gorgon has read alien minds before? I doubt there's any evidence of that and there is evidence of the alien being very smart. Gorgons not overpowering the strength that has consistently been capable of hanging with most every opponent. Without sonics, fire, or electricity who has ko'ed the symbiotes? They're extremely resilient to everything except their weaknesses and they're deadly aliens. Gorgon's brain can be pushed out of his ear at the first opening, cuz this isn't a book where that will never happen in an aunt may vs venom fight. Gorgon can't cut up the suits they're not that weak and can grab bullets. Gorgons stone ability is stated online to only work on humans. Does it work on Wolverine? I know better than to trust the online stuff but some of it's true. What's Gorgon's greatest feat of strength? Even Venom is a tank thrower. The suits sandman like abilities to envelop limbs and extend multiple tendrils make excellent martial arts limited in what they can do. Gorgon couldn't take Venom out the characters history has him being someone who can take alot of punishment.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spider-Man isn't the god of speed that's Flash.

So he's stronger than Spider-Man and heals better than the Hulk. Where are scans of him healing like Hulk?

But you do think he is the god of speed against fighters when all in all... there are people that are faster than him.

Originally posted by carver9
But you do think he is the god of speed against fighters when all in all... there are people that are faster than him. Nope. I think he's faster than streets. You seem to think Logan is as fast against him. Which would also mean that DD, Cap, etc are as well if you go by "relative feats". Don't put words in my mouth, Spider-Man is still the fastest street.

If that's the case then what is Gorgon to you? Not to mention you compared him to WW.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Nope. I think he's faster than streets. You seem to think Logan is as fast against him. Which would also mean that DD, Cap, etc are as well if you go by "relative feats". Don't put words in my mouth, Spider-Man is still the fastest street.

If that's the case then what is Gorgon to you? Not to mention you compared him to WW.

Omg... I never compared him to wondy but I did say that wonder woman isn't unhittable and in a melee with cis on I could see him tagging her just like batman has tagged her... the royal flush gang, and deathstroke. Stop bringing her up... she have nothing to do with this.

The sad thing about your post is that spiderman, wolverine, and gorgon aren't street level characters, they are metas and have meta stats. Wolverine alone has proven this by going h2h with hulk on numerous of occasions, almost beating rulk until someone interviened, and taking on teams and holding his own, defeating namor, tackling thor, etc.

Gorgon is much faster than than spiderman so no, spiderman isn't the fastest. Once you show me spiderman blitzing two people likr gorgon did "wolverine and elektra" then I would agree with you but going by all of spiderman showingsw against similar characters, that ain't happening.

Stop being in denial... a lot of people have accepted the fact that gorgon is faster just like I accepted the fact thathe is faster than wolvy and sabertooth.

Because you argued him keeping up with someone moving lightspeed.

Yes they are meta, but obviously I meant Spider-Man is a street hero. Hulk would crush Wolverine and Capt has gone "h2h" against Hulk, he would lose. Just like Spider-Man.

You've proven nothing. You haven't proven Gorgon being stronger than Spider-Man, having Hulk level healing, or anything. You just say stuff over and over again and think that it makes it right. Who said that Gorgon was in a whole different league? I said they were comparable. You've shown him blitz two people. I've shown him blitz several on several occasions. Of course you tried to lowball the feats like you lowballed Superman, and you lowball Akuma. This is a waste of time.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Because you argued him keeping up with someone moving lightspeed.

Yes they are meta, but obviously I meant Spider-Man is a street hero. Hulk would crush Wolverine and Capt has gone "h2h" against Hulk, he would lose. Just like Spider-Man.

You've proven nothing. You haven't proven Gorgon being stronger than Spider-Man, having Hulk level healing, or anything. You just say stuff over and over again and think that it makes it right. Who said that Gorgon was in a whole different league? I said they were comparable. You've shown him blitz two people. I've shown him blitz several on several occasions. Of course you tried to lowball the feats like you lowballed Superman, and you lowball Akuma. This is a waste of time.

You are hilarious cmaster... when did I low ball akuma, the only thing I said is that ironman would win.

Show me wonder woman combating at light speed.

Wolverine has taken on hulk too many timea for you to ignore his showings. Wolverine started off as a hulk villian. Show me cap going h2h against hulk like wolverine has on numerous of occasions. Just because you do not like the fact that wolverine has went against top tiers doesn't mean that you have the right to throw it out of the window.

Stop bringing superman into this... this has nothing to do with him. Now again, show me spiderman blitzing two people of wolverine and elektra caliber. Mr. Fantastic or luke doesn't have super speed so stop bring up that lame a** feat.

Wolverine can fight the Hulk he won't beat him.

5 people. Fantastic can stretch. He also did it in secret wars. He's done it to the Sinister Six too. He has tons more feats I don't know why you're bothering with your featwar crap. I've argued more extensively on here than you and I've seen it many times.

Show Gorgon having more strength than Spider-Man and Hulk level healing factor and reacting at Wonder Woman's level.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Wolverine can fight the Hulk he won't beat him.

5 people. Fantastic can stretch. He also did it in secret wars. He's done it to the Sinister Six too. He has tons more feats I don't know why you're bothering with your featwar crap. I've been here much longer than you and I've seen it many times.

Show Gorgon having more strength and Hulk level healing factor and reacting at Wonder Woman's level.

I have been here over 8 years... I know about feat wars.

I know it was 5 people but again, its irrelevant since none of those people are in wolvy or elektra range of combat speed. Why didn't he blitz captain america? Why didn't he blitz wolvy? Why isnt he blitz sabertooth when they fought? Do you want to know why? Because they have comparable speed.

I agree, wolverine can't beat the hulk but he sure as hell gives him a run for his money. Hulk can't stand wolverine because of this.

Like I told you before, I never said that gorgon was stronger, I said that its a "possibility" sinc wolverine laughed at spidey punches but was getting dropped by gorgons "so stop asking me the same questions over and over again".

Him getting stabbed in the chest by 7 blades and bouncing back up without a scratch makes me think that he has close to hulk level healing factor.
Here you go putting words in my mouth yet again... when did I say that gorgon had wonder woman level speed.

Cmaster, you are a cool guy but you are seriously trolling right now.

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

Let's the racism a bit around

hRJgqx8Zww8&feature=related

I love this guy

EDIT

Originally posted by carver9
I have been here over 8 years... I know about feat wars.

I know it was 5 people but again, its irrelevant since none of those people are in wolvy or elektra range of combat speed. Why didn't he blitz captain america? Why didn't he blitz wolvy? Why isnt he blitz sabertooth when they fought? Do you want to know why? Because they have comparable speed.

I agree, wolverine can't beat the hulk but he sure as hell gives him a run for his money. Hulk can't stand wolverine because of this.

Like I told you before, I never said that gorgon was stronger, I said that its a "possibility" sinc wolverine laughed at spidey punches but was getting dropped by gorgons "so stop asking me the same questions over and over again".

Him getting stabbed in the chest by 7 blades and bouncing back up without a scratch makes me think that he has close to hulk level healing factor.
Here you go putting words in my mouth yet again... when did I say that gorgon had wonder woman level speed.

Cmaster, you are a cool guy but you are seriously trolling right now.

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I said extensively although there wasn't a versus board.

You're trolling. I like you and all, but he doesn't have a better healing factor than Hulk. Hulk healed from a skeleton in seconds.

Also Wolverine isn't even much faster than Cap, so now he's faster than 5 guys. Gorgon isn't stronger than Spider-Man and insisting these things like him reacting to Wondy isn't right man. You shouldn't do that. You're better than that.

Only thing I said was that they're comparable, and they both have insane speed feats. Only difference is Gorgon uses his speed differently. You're claiming the other ends.

I see you're getting angry so I won't continue now. This thread is getting too far off topic anyways.

The symbiotes win. They aren't Wonder Woman fast though.