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Who wins?

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8114/capsings.png

Cap has made blondes faint with his singing voice. Not even a challenge.

^

hes the new sinatra.

KT wins very very easily.

Very easily eh?

How?

He's not KO'ing him that's for sure.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Very easily eh?

How?

He's not KO'ing him that's for sure. PC marvel right?The strongest one?Yeah hes still not high skyfather.

Golden Age not Silver Age.

And yeah, a title means nothing. (Odin is NOT as strong or durable as a PC Superman or Cap.)

Captain Marvel was knocking out Gods who governed the laws of the entire universe.

And he is totally invulnerable.

King Thor is not winning by physical means.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Golden Age not Silver Age.

And yeah, a title means nothing. (Odin is NOT as strong or durable as a PC Superman or Cap.)

Captain Marvel was knocking out Gods who governed the laws of the entire universe.

And he is totally invulnerable.

King Thor is not winning by physical means. Never said physical.But he is winning none-the-less.

and yes hes knocked around universal beings.But hes also had trouble lifting a car.Its not just high feats.

So yeah KT wins.

When did he ever have trouble lifting a car? lol.

He has one-hand stopped two colliding trains. He has restarted the Earth's rotation after it stopped, he has tossed planetoid sized monsters from near the Earth all the way to the sun. He has pushed mountains while a sorcerer on the other side was pushing back with magic. He has flown into and out of black holes with not a trace of strain or struggle whatsoever.

And you aren't going off without saying HOW Thor is going to win. Don't be vague. He'd probably have to erase him like with Mangog.

King Thor can stop time right?

Originally posted by King Kandy
King Thor can stop time right?

I think so.

It should be noted that Billy can time travel by going FTL up to the Rock Eternity.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Golden Age not Silver Age.

And yeah, a title means nothing. (Odin is NOT as strong or durable as a PC Superman or Cap.)

Captain Marvel was knocking out Gods who governed the laws of the entire universe.

And he is totally invulnerable.

King Thor is not winning by physical means.

Odin >>>>> Silver Age Superman in everything. Don't be fooled by the one-time high showings that people post of that guy in this forum.

Nah.

PC's ridiculous feats were common enough to not be ignorable.

I saw Superman blowing back an incoming star with his breath alone.

Odin would die in a flash of blue and red at the drop of a dime.

PC Superman was much more vulnerable to magic and kryptonite than post crisis Superman is. And his more average feats weren't feats like you mentioned much like how Odin doesn't consistently destroy galaxies.

Plus, as it turns out, his solar system blowing sneeze had context behind it as he had been exposed to Mxy's magical powder. There was another scan of PC Superman sneezing, but that time nothing was destroyed.

KT.

I think GA Cap is starting to become a bit too overrated.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
PC Superman was much more vulnerable to magic and kryptonite than post crisis Superman is. And his more average feats weren't feats like you mentioned much like how Odin doesn't consistently destroy galaxies.

Plus, as it turns out, his solar system blowing sneeze had context behind it as he had been exposed to Mxy's magical powder. There was another scan of PC Superman sneezing, but that time nothing was destroyed.

I've never referenced the sneeze feat.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Nah.

PC's ridiculous feats were common enough to not be ignorable.

I saw Superman blowing back an incoming star with his breath alone.

Odin would die in a flash of blue and red at the drop of a dime. His low feats balance out his high feats.

PC supes sneezes away solar systems one minute and stuggle to lift a car the next.

Cap may or may not survive being erased completely--in a 4th wall breaking scene.

I'll get back to this thread after I'm able to read that issue.

How could PC Black Adam and CM be overrated? SHAZAM even admitted that he couldn't harm Black Adam physically and this was INSIDE the Rock of Eternity. When he did BFR Adam, it SEVERLY weakened him.

They were pretty much indestructible.

Originally posted by Galan007
KT.

I think GA Cap is starting to become a bit too overrated.

How is he overrated?

GA cap wins, i dont even think king thor can hurt him, golden age cap and black adam were invunerable like classic juggernaut

iirc they had to be bfr by a skyfather

Originally posted by Prep-Man
How is he overrated? He became overrated when he was placed against King Thor.

The only real way Thor would win is BFR. CM can combat stopping time and he's faced his share of gods before.

Originally posted by Galan007
He became overrated when he was placed against King Thor. have you see his feats

^ Yep. They don't mean a whole lot to a fella who can muck with time, and/or BFR him to a dimension of his choosing.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Yep. They don't mean a whole lot to a fella who can muck with time, and/or BFR him to a dimension of his choosing. yea, thats what people are saying, he only wins via bfr or time stop

Originally posted by Prep-Man
CM can combat stopping time
How?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
yea, thats what people are saying, he only wins via bfr or time stop It's also hard for me to imagine KT's energy attacks being ineffectual, considering his mere eye-blasts were capable of slagging Wolverine's skeleton and Cap's shield... But that's neither here nor there.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Odin >>>>> Silver Age Superman in everything. Don't be fooled by the one-time high showings that people post of that guy in this forum. how is it just a 1 time high showing from PC supes if most people generally have their own favored feat of PC supes???

Originally posted by Galan007
It's also hard for me to imagine KT's energy attacks being ineffectual, considering his mere eye-blasts were capable of slagging Wolverine's skeleton and Cap's shield... But that's neither here nor there.

Adimantium works differently from Cap's magical body. Totally not the same thing.

Originally posted by King Kandy
How?

By moving FTL speeds to traverse dimensions. When did KT stop time to stop a foe?

Originally posted by Galan007
KT.

I think GA Cap is starting to become a bit too overrated.

So, KT > SHAZAM in ROE? What reasons do you fellas have>

I was not under the impression that one had to be '> Shazam in RoE' to beat Cap.

I don't know if Cap learns how to combat it later with his own magic abilities, but for all his strength and total invulnerability, he is not immune to transmutation.

A witch, (Circe) was able to turn half of his lower body into a Goat. Turning back into Billy and turning Cap once again undoes it, but if he was transformed into a goat entirely he wouldn't even be able to say Shazam.

Oh well, transmutation is still ghey. And Thor being not ghey in the least, would not try a ghey tactic such as that. Word.

Jesus christ man Cap may lose due to various miscellaneous factors like Transmutation or BFR, but he sure as hell isn't getting hurt physically by King Thor, skyfather be damned.

I just read him purposefully setting off an alien torpedo powerful enough to explode the sun, making it go Nova, and he tanked it point blank. This isn't one of those situations where characters tank big cosmic things but still get paradoxically hurt by building wreckers, oh no. Cap is simply that damn invulnerable all the time, he has even fought perfect clones of himself and they couldn't do anything to each other than budge each other's footing a little bit. They constantly beat it over your head with the narration that he can tank ANY destructive force.

Tanked an alternate Earth blowing up too while he was at the very epicenter of the exploding proton bomb that caused its destruction.

Went into and out of a blackhole as well with not a sign discomfort in the least, he even said its only because he is completely indestructible that he could do it.

GA Cap was so damn awesome.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Jesus christ man Cap may lose due to various miscellaneous factors like Transmutation or BFR, but he sure as hell isn't getting hurt physically by King Thor, skyfather be damned.

I just read him purposefully setting off an alien torpedo powerful enough to explode the sun, making it go Nova, and he tanked it point blank. This isn't one of those situations where characters tank big cosmic things but still get paradoxically hurt by building wreckers, oh no. Cap is simply that damn invulnerable all the time, he has even fought perfect clones of himself and they couldn't do anything to each other than budge each other's footing a little bit. They constantly beat it over your head with the narration that he can tank ANY destructive force.

Tanked an alternate Earth blowing up too while he was at the very epicenter of the exploding proton bomb that caused its destruction.

Went into and out of a blackhole as well with not a sign discomfort in the least, he even said its only because he is completely indestructible that he could do it.

GA Cap was so damn awesome.



Yeah, SHAZAM admitted he couldn't harm Black Adam back in those days. Cap Marvel has resisted transmutation, Post crisis. He resisted Shadow Thief in turning him into a shadow and the bomb that turned Billy inside out.

No way Thor will even dent Marvel. Best bet is BFR, but Cap can speed blitz before he gets any attacks off.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I just read him purposefully setting off an alien torpedo powerful enough to explode the sun, making it go Nova, and he tanked it point blank.

GA Cap was so damn awesome. Several characters have endured nova-esque explosions. Beta Ray Bill, Superman, and Surfer are the first who come to mind. So while it might be an impressive feat for Cap, it certainly doesn't deserve wankage like this.

GA Cap was awesome. However, he is certainly not without his low feats.

Except I already accounted for what you said. It's basically just a trope with comics. Those guys can tank big things when they happen but still get hurt by far far less, and bleed by far far less. So you are forced to find an average. It's almost like its some sort of Word wrap function, when the words/damage gets to the very end of the margin (their threshold for pain) it suddenly wraps to the next line and they remain in tact when they shouldn't. Always lolworthy.

None of them are narrated to be totally invulnerable all the time and none of them would be able to stand and trade punches with each other without being hurt and bleeding. Cap is guaranteed would be able to stand and trade punches with them without being hurt by virtue of doing so against Clones of himself, and Black Adam, as well as Oggar another Shazam desciple with the same powers as him. He simply does not bleed. And its not some comic code restriction either because they have shown blood several times.

And GA Cap's low feats that I've seen thus far have had nothing to do with invulnerability or strength, those things are consistent. It has had to do with miscellaneous things like sometimes gasses not affecting him and some do, or being transmutated by Circe into a goat.

^ Aside from what you mentioned, I've seen missiles affect him, I've seen mutated bats affect him, I've seen Magnificus affect him, I've even seen him bound by chains. Etc.

Every character has lower showings. Cap is no exception.

^

Except for squirrel girl.

I've never seen a missiles ever affect him. Ever. Cap has even joked before to robbers with guns how even if they had atom bombs it wouldn't help.

Cap isn't immune to getting blown back by sufficient force however. That has happened a couple of times when he said he didn't have time to brace himself. He still doesn't get hurt when this happens of course and never has a look of pain of discomfort on his face when it happens.

He exploded a state of the art torpedo that was fired at light speed as well.

Context of the chains? In his second or third appearance alone, and he has only gotten stronger since then, showed him breaking out of reinforced chains without effort.

The missiles affected him to the point where he fell to the ground. No lasting damage was caused, but he was still affected.

The chains were used in another instance to subdue him after he had been incapacitated by something (can't remember what.)

Gonna have to see that to believe it. His damage soak has been entirely consistent through the 74 issues I've plowed through so far.

Ah. Sounds like the thing I described already, it was one of his first showings in Whiz comics before he ever got his own book. He was knocked out by gas from Sivana and then he broke out of the chains when he woke up.

Anyway, later.

Both instances happened in 'Captain Marvel Adventures', iirc.

Later.

KT owns Cap.

He busted CA's shield and wolverines skeleton like nothing.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
KT owns Cap.

He busted CA's shield and wolverines skeleton like nothing. are you not getting the fact that golden age cap was invunerable?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
are you not getting the fact that golden age cap was invunerable? Are you not getting the fact that KT has destroyed invulnerble stuff before?

Yet they obviously aren't invulnerable if they can be dented. Just highly durable.

A thin metallic shield, vibranium or otherwise, isn't the same as an invulnerable person with insta-recovery.

Oh, and Cap has bent an unbreakable robot into a pretzel too. No problem. Was it just hyperbole? Nope. A later metal foe, Mr. Atom, could be knocked about and even temporarily incapacitated by Cap's punches, yet was able to completely tank a blast powerful enough to hurtle him 100 years into the future.

That blast would have to be hella powerful seeing as even a sun exploding canon shell could not send Cap hurtling into a different time. Mr. Atom came after that story by the way.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Yet they obviously aren't invulnerable if they can be dented. Just highly durable.

A thin metallic shield, vibranium or otherwise, isn't the same as an invulnerable person with insta-recovery.

Oh, and Cap has bent an unbreakable robot into a pretzel too. No problem. Was it just hyperbole? Nope. A later metal foe, Mr. Atom, could be knocked about and even temporarily incapacitated by Cap's punches, yet was able to completely tank a blast powerful enough to hurtle him 100 years into the future.

That blast would have to be hella powerful seeing as even a sun exploding canon shell could not send Cap hurtling into a different time. Mr. Atom came after that story by the way. Cap wasn't invulnerable either.

A sheild thats only been broken by abstracts and higher is the same if not better.

What was the robot made out of to prove it was ubreakable?Does it actually have feats or just a random statement with nothing to back it up.

And exploding sun really wouldn't do anything to KT either....Surfer has been inside exploding suns and KT>>>>>>>>>>Surfer.

-Yes, Cap is indestructible. More so than vibranium. He doesn't even get bruised by people equal to him. Not to mention he has been narrated to survive ANY destructive force.

-Not really. One is completely indestructible, one just has a high threshold. Cap is invulnerable to universal level beings as well, they too called him completely indestructible and could only get rid of him by simply erasing the law that allows him to exist.

-Yes. Reading is fundamental. I just gave you a reference. That robot was more invulnerable than than a future robot called Mr Atom. Who himself tanked a blast more powerful than the Nova causing blast that didn't harm Cap. In the same story that Cap bent that robot into a pretzel, he also wrecked a castle made of a composite of diamond and steel very easily.

-You completely misunderstood the point. Mr. Atom, who is comparable to Cap in stats, totally tanked something far more powerful than a sun exploding shell. And no, Surfer's Nova tanking and such can simply be summed up as part of his powerset or the typical sliding durability scale trope. Seeing as he can still be hurt by Hulk or Rulk, neither of whom have punches on the power scale of Novas on any day to day basis. That's different Cap who is simply invulnerable to everything.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
-Yes, Cap is indestructible. More so than vibranium. He doesn't even get bruised by people equal to him. Not to mention he has been narrated to survive ANY destructive force.

-Not really. One is completely indestructible, one just has a high threshold. Cap is invulnerable to universal level beings as well, they too called him completely indestructible and could only get rid of him by simply erasing the law that allows him to exist.

-Yes. Reading is fundamental. I just gave you a reference. That robot was more invulnerable than than a future robot called Mr Atom. Who himself tanked a blast more powerful than the Nova causing blast that didn't harm Cap. In the same story that Cap bent that robot into a pretzel, he also wrecked a castle made of a composite of diamond and steel very easily.

-You completely misunderstood the point. Mr. Atom, who is comparable to Cap in stats, totally tanked something far more powerful than a sun exploding shell. And no, Surfer's Nova tanking and such can simply be summed up as part of his powerset or the typical sliding durability scale trope. Seeing as he can still be hurt by Hulk or Rulk, neither of whom have punches on the power scale of Novas on any day to day basis. That's different Cap who is simply invulnerable to everything. Yet, according to gala hes been hurt by missles.Feats>Statements.

Once again thats called a high feats.He can get hurt and by much less.

So cap bent a robot that survived a supernova?Once again not all that impressive.And so there are no feats to prove this robot was unbreakable.

Its how powerful he is that allows him to do this.Thor,Superman,Sentry they could all do it too.

And KT>>>>>>>>>>>Them.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Are you not getting the fact that KT has destroyed invulnerble stuff before? lets see king thor harm classic juggernaut...

Classic Thor has....

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Classic Thor has.... no he didnt

Yes he did.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Yes he did. when...was it after he removed jugg's protection?

It happened when Thor removed Juggernaut's force field.

-I saw what Galan was talking about. It was an early Whiz story for Cap. An early story where Cap had a much lower established level, about equal with GA Superman of the same time.

Since that time they increased his durability by an incalculable amount:

-Regularly tanking things like atom bombs,
-Special minature canon shells with concentrated power that would calculate out to multiple times more powerful than the Tsar bomb.
-Canon shells travelling at lighspeed,
-Mile long canon shells fired from space.
-Tanking point blank hand held futuristic ray guns that could blow up mountains.
-Tanking point blank a proton bomb that blew up an alternate earth.
-Tanking Death rays made to dissolve any substance in the universe.
-Tanking black holes--and not simply escaping the pull of black holes from a fair distance away like Thor did just recently carrying Rulk--but being completely inside of them and escaping with not a hint of discomfort or difficulty.
-Tanking nova causing alien canon shells at point blank.
-Tanking blows from people in his own strength class like Black Adam, Oggar, and Mr Atom, all they could to each other at best was knock each other back some when they aren't fully braced.

It's not an inconsistency so much as him simply being at a lower level back for Galan's example. For example, during his earliest Whiz constricted titles he was worried about a volcano exploding, and then in his self titled comics he casually stopped a volcano just by sitting on it.

Exactly, feats > statements. And Cap has the feats and then the statements come with each feat supplementing them, assuring us that each thing Cap tanks is because he is TOTALLY invulnerable.

-Except you haven't read these comics and don't actually know what you are talking about. Cap does not get hurt by lesser things after his own comic series had started. Him being totally invulnerable to any physical destructive force is a consistent quality that the narration and even universe governing Gods tell us about. He is more, yes more, invulnerable than Classic Juggernaut.

-*smacks forehead* No. He bent a robot more durable than another robot who tanked something FAR MORE powerful than a Supernova. And Cap has no trouble busting diamonds up, or hurting latter mentioned Robot above with punches.

-Well we already know Sentry already tried to commit suicide by flying into a Star. Void revived him. Not a durability feat but survivability feat. Surfer, Thor, Superman, none of them are consistently invulnerable like Cap was they can and have gotten hurt or knocked out by far less--Supes being ko'd by running into a moon at lightspeed for example. That's why you are forced to go for an average for them. It's part of the sliding durability scale trope of modern comics. Simple.

Cap's average in his own titles were simple; total indestructibility. If friggin Booster Gold were to punch Superman, Superman would still feel it. If Black Adam punches Cap, Cap can (and has) taken the punch and stand in place and not be budged.

what if thor tries to do to him what he did to Mangog?

You mean erase him? Don't know just yet. Most likely win though. Thor has a lot of miscellaneous ways to win this.


Supposedly there's a story where Cap gets erased however, but I have quite a few issues to go through before I get to it. I would like to go in order and not skip ahead.

suck his soul actually.
anyway I always believed the Wizard not being able to strip Adam or Billy from their powers is PIS. For me a being more powerful than Odin can win this fight. and yes he doesn't have to apply physical means

Didn't he do that when he was RKT?

My bad I thought it was Rune Thor in this