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Avengers:

Thor
Captain America
Iron Man
Giantman
Wasp
Hulk
Black Widow

Justice League:

Superman
Hawkgirl
Flash
Martian Manhunter
Green Lantern
Wonder Woman
Batman

Using these characters, what do you think would be the best matchup. And working as a team which team would win. The scenario is they are in some non-specified city, they don't have any outside help, there are no civilians or military groups picking sides, no other heroes than the ones mentioned here, and no Greek or Norse gods. Just themselves and whatever is around. And no there is no Kryptonite just lying around, and they have to stay in the city limits no running to other other side of the world, or time travel. All of the characters are at their peak, and Iron man can be in any of his suits, as well. Black Widow and Batman can have any gadgets that they have had before, but no vehicles to keep it simple.

So... basically,

Thor
Prepped Iron Man
Hulk

vs

Superman
Flash
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
GL
Prepped Batman


Yeeeeaaaaah.

Justice League.

JLA megastomp

This is how I see this fight going:
dzeeaEsIFLs

The Avengers are in yellow and blue

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh79/lorrdraiden/jlaavengers4.jpg

Supes gets some new baubles from the fight.


He beats Thor and Cap is nice enough to let him have the shield for being a true patriot.

Is the search broken again?

The kid obviously is watching the new cartoon and based his roster accordingly.

DC characters are overpowered and boring so Avengers win.
Likability.
Sexiness.
Sales.
Fun.
Coolness and .........I dunno Awesomeness.

Yea I based this roster off of the latest installments, pretty much every marvel hero has been in the avengers at one point or another so you could realistically pick anyone, I just used these guys because I liked the two animated movies I saw with this line up. Ultimate Avengers. The same thing could be said about Justice League to some extent, although not as much (batman sup's and wonder woman are always in it) so again I just used the more recent movie roster.

The only chance I see of avengers winning, or at least not being completely destroyed is if they played off of rarely used weaknesses on the DC side.

Example. Wasp is yellow, so technically Green Lantern couldn't do anything to her (I always thought that was a stupid weakness), Thor's hammer is magic so Superman is just as vulnerable to it as anyone else, and if Thor goes into that Bezerker rage thing he's strong enough to lift 6 earths (about superman level)

The Incredible Hulk movie showed the Captain America injections giving that spec ops guy near movie spiderman like strength and agility, coupled with his indestructible shield, and advanced training he could be a serious threat to hawkgirl.

Black widow could be a threat to Batman, they probably have equal fighting skills but batman would have an edge with physical strength, she might have an edge because she has guns.

both iron man and Giant man would be destroyed by wonder woman, but there is a fairly equally split debate about wether or not Hulk could beat wonder woman,

Thor is the only one that could possibly challenge Flash, and yet Flash has had some difficulty in the past with laser bearing enemies, (as well as other bad guys that really shouldn't be able to do anything to him Gorrilla Grod, Captain Boomerange, captain cold. The point being Iron man's repulsor rays might be able to hit the flash if he would stop long enough, (he always seems to) He also has suits that allow faster than light travel.

Giant man's aura which allows him to grow giant has given him protection from both telpaths, and people that could phase through solid objects. This would even the playing fields a bit against the Martian Man Hunter, but my money is still on the green guy.

Unfortunately DC comics took away all the cool weaknesses that made all their heroes bearable. Then went even further to amp them so much that even their writers have stated that they are bored writing them now. In particular Superman.

1.Lantern isn't vunerable to yellow anymore.
2.Superman can handle kryptonite now. Magic don't mean squat and he explodes solar energy when a animated vampire bites him LOL.
3.Flash is now the GOD OF SPEED!
4.Wonderwoman now apparently Superman's equal coincidentally and the arm bracelets reflecting bullets don't mean squat anymore. + many more bullcrap artifacts that allow her to cut through/mess up anything.

My girlfriend manages a comicbook store and she says only hardcore fans dig these guys anymore due to the fact that....well they can't lose.
Sad considering I grew up loving Silver Age DC characters and their wacky adventures but now....meh.

Each to there own.

Sounds right, you can't really say that kryptonite is Superman's weakness when he can lift a continent made of it, throw it into space and then fall back to Earth with various chunks of it dug into his chest, and survive. I preferred it when a piece of kryptonite the side of a car key could bring him to his knees from a football field away. That was interesting. Marvel characters are so much more interesting at this point. Although my dad would kill me if he heard me say that he's a die hard D.C. fan

Originally posted by the ninjak
Unfortunately DC comics took away all the cool weaknesses that made all their heroes bearable. Then went even further to amp them so much that even their writers have stated that they are bored writing them now. In particular Superman.

1.Lantern isn't vunerable to yellow anymore.
2.Superman can handle kryptonite now. Magic don't mean squat and he explodes solar energy when a animated vampire bites him LOL.
3.Flash is now the GOD OF SPEED!
4.Wonderwoman now apparently Superman's equal coincidentally and the arm bracelets reflecting bullets don't mean squat anymore. + many more bullcrap artifacts that allow her to cut through/mess up anything.

My girlfriend manages a comicbook store and she says only hardcore fans dig these guys anymore due to the fact that....well they can't lose.
Sad considering I grew up loving Silver Age DC characters and their wacky adventures but now....meh.

Each to there own.

whoever told you most of that is lying.

JLA.

JLA

JLA

Martian Manhunter, Supes and Diana would do significant damage on their own

Flash and GL are the icing on the cake

Originally posted by -Pr-
whoever told you most of that is lying.

I know I'm sounding harsh. But when my studies are over I'm gonna catch up on some DC and hope to rekindle my love of the universe.

But after some of these forum fights and the feats JLAers have it kinda turned me off I'm enjoying Batman though.....well it is BATMAN!

But I tend to read alot of Silver Age Classics.

I've personally never seen the point of weaknesses at the Herald level. GLs are fine without the unconquerable crippling yellow vulnerability.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Unfortunately DC comics took away all the cool weaknesses that made all their heroes bearable. Then went even further to amp them so much that even their writers have stated that they are bored writing them now. In particular Superman.

1.Lantern isn't vunerable to yellow anymore.

More or less true, lanterns aren't vulnerable to yellow unless they feel fear. Which isn't to say they don't have weaknesses, anything that disrupts willpower/concentration will do.

However, the lantern stuff has generally been quite awesome and the best selling sector of DC for years now. Also ever since the Corps have return, their power levels have generally been a bit lower, most notably in ring charges which tend to run out a lot faster, so there's more emphasis on power charge levels as a weakness.

I recommend Green Lantern Corps as a series.



The 'a vampire died from biting him due to solar' was a silver age event and IMO makes sense. More recently they forgot that when they had vamps bite him.

Magic works against him, though it's somewhat dependent on type (like, it's not a crippling vulnerability in the sense of "anything magic auto-works," but it gives a definite edge), and so does kryptonite and it's varieties.



Not in a literal sense, just more channeling of the speed force.

He can still be KOed with a wrench to the head if he's not paying attention.



"Now"? She's been fighting with Superman since the silver age. The arm bracelets are for reflecting stuff like Cheetah's enchanted claws or Superman's heat vision and for most purposes have been for a very long time. And the other artifacts? Like the tiara that's enchanted to cut through stuff? Try golden age.


Though right now-now, she's also been significantly depowered and is slowly regaining her abilities due to some time meddling as part of a one-year arc. So far, I'm not digging it, but for un-power level related reasons (we haven't really gotten to *know* this alt time line Diana).



They can lose as much as Thor, Nova, Spider-man, etc.. They can and do lose in their stories pretty often.


If you think they aren't enjoyable and "they can't lose," well, you're obviously not getting your info from people who read the comics. They have plenty of foes of significantly power who can rip them apart and take them down, and often do.


This is a common complaint by people who have an outside image of the characters without really knowing what they're talking about due to not reading the good stuff. Read Gail Simone's Wonder Woman run. Badass and a half, but you never get the idea that she can't lose. Especially when she does get ripped apart by the villain Genocide and her lasso taken. There is some awesome drama during that run (and Greg Rucka's run is also really good), and even when she 'wins' she can still 'lose'.

If you can get drama from Marvel heroes, you can get drama from DC heroes.


Writer/storyline dependent of course. The current Superman storyline is generally viewed as not great, but for reasons unrelated to power (Superman's going on walkabout across the US to 'connect' with people, but that's something that's been done before and much better, and many of the morals of individual meetings and stories along the way just aren't very good).



Uh, they're *weaker* now than the Silver age.... Silver Age had the highest power levels of any DC age.

A lot of recent powering-up has been compared to Silver Age stuff but it's still not the same level they had back then, it's just in comparison to the Bronze/Iron age that they've moved up.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I've personally never seen the point of weaknesses at the Herald level. GLs are fine without the unconquerable crippling yellow vulnerability.


I agree with this. Actually the biggest "issue" -assuming there is one and assuming we should care about power levels and realism to enjoy a comicbook story, both being bold assumptions imo- with DC is that the herald class is swamped and the meta class is almost non-existant; in order to have some hero credibility in DC you need to at least being able to amp to hang with Superman level characters. There are exceptions to this -mostly the Secret Six/Suicide Squad series-, but it's kind of true for other books.

The "problem" comes often when you think of the DC universe on the whole or focus on events and crossovers, I think that the Green Lantern books have managed a pretty healthy balance without feeling overpowered despite their herald rank characters.

Thanks Q99 I'm gonna read Lantern Corps in December and alot of Flash trades.

Originally posted by Bentley
I agree with this. Actually the biggest "issue" -assuming there is one and assuming we should care about power levels and realism to enjoy a comicbook story, both being bold assumptions imo-

Yea. Realism isn't what matters, verisimilitude is. Whether it makes sense in context.




That's not really the case. The Titans/Outsiders/etc. level is swamped with Metas (and keep in mind the Titans have often been *huge*, with more than one book at a time and tons of characters), and JLA teams are generally filled out with them too. Plus Batman deals with streets and low metas a lot, and by extension so does a lot of the other Batfamily books. Legion of Superheroes is 90% meta class people.

It's just that as DC's classics are herald level, they tend to get more focus to outside eyes looking in, but in terms of actual numbers of heroes DC and Marvel are closer in those categories than most people thing.

Many Legion characters and Titans can amp to hang with heralds but yeah, I was mostly implying that Flash, Wonder Woman and other big names are very high in the scale.

Thor is my favorite Character but the JLA wins this All day Supes, Wonder Woman, Flash , Martian Manhunter, and Green Latern is to much Speed and Power for this Marvel team.

Nobody is arguing that the JLA win this 10/10.
Especially when the fact that Giantman and Wasp means that the Avengers team is a dated version of the team.
40 years old.
Pym is so much more now.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
unconquerable crippling yellow vulnerability .
that got retconned

Originally posted by MrMind
that got retconned
I'm well aware of that.

My post addressed how GLs are still compelling even without an absolute weakness.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Justice League.

Justice League clearly won. So what 7 character roster do you guys think would be able to beat Justice League? Only Marvel heros.

What 7 member marvel hero team do you guys think could beat justice league.

Sentry
Thor
Hulk
Ironman
Wonderman (classic)
Vision
Ms. Marvel
Current Quick Silver

Originally posted by carver9

Vision
Ms. Marvel
Current Quick Silver
I really hope you don't see these three as matches for Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Flash.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I really hope you don't see these three as matches for Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Flash.

I see quicksilver as nothing but a nuisance but you are seriously underating ms. Marvel. Even though I can't see her dropping the people that you have mentioned, she sure as hell can hold her own. If the martian by any chance decides to heat vision her, that could possibly amp her to unknown levels and depending on how long he does it, she might reach her binary levels.

Vision, another underated character... especially when we have him tangling with people like thor, stalemating silver surfer, knocking out classic juggernaut temporarily, fighting terrax and holding his own... going against hyperion, holding own until thor decides to finish it, and the list goes on.

Vision could be a deadly character if he wanted to be.

Originally posted by carver9
If the martian by any chance decides to heat vision her, that could possibly amp her to unknown levels and depending on how long he does it, she might reach her binary levels.
Huge ****ing if.

replace Vision with Quasar, make Ms. Marvel her Binary incarnation, and you can keep quicksilver depending on whether or not they are in marvel earth or not...or replace him with Mar-vell

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Huge ****ing if.

I agree but the martian does have a bad habit of pouring heat vision on the peeps that he is fighting against.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
replace Vision with Quasar, make Ms. Marvel her Binary incarnation, and you can keep quicksilver depending on whether or not they are in marvel earth or not...or replace him with Mar-vell

That's too much power.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree but the martian does have a bad habit of pouring heat vision on the peeps that he is fighting against. It's Martian vision first off, and secondly I can't see her amping off his energy to the point that she'd surpass him, that just doesn't make sense.

With the amount of powers J'onn has at his disposal there's little need for him to resort to spamming Martian vision.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It's Martian vision first off, and secondly I can't see her amping off his energy to the point that she'd surpass him, that just doesn't make sense.

With the amount of powers J'onn has at his disposal there's little need for him to resort to spamming Martian vision.

She did a quick blitz through the collective and that small grasp of heat changed her to her binary levels.

Originally posted by carver9
That's too much power.

your kidding rght? Anything else would be a curbstomp. You have a green lantern, flash, ww, mm, and supes against what? Thor and Hulk because everyone else is fodder. too much speed, strength, etc

Originally posted by Sin I AM
your kidding rght? Anything else would be a curbstomp. You have a green lantern, flash, ww, mm, and supes against what? Thor and Hulk because everyone else is fodder. too much speed, strength, etc

So sentry and classic wonderman is fodder?

Originally posted by carver9
So sentry and classic wonderman is fodder?

i was referring to the original list, sentry is too inconsistent for him to be a threat to Clark imo...classic WM meh...i dunno he'd be hard-pressed to put any A-lister down permanently...but this is team effort so i dunno

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i was referring to the original list, sentry is too inconsistent for him to be a threat to Clark imo...classic WM meh...i dunno he'd be hard-pressed to put any A-lister down permanently...but this is team effort so i dunno

Lol... well me and you have different opinions of the character because I think he would STOMP anyone on the jla (Sentry).

You are really pushing it with Classic Wonderman... he one shotted thor with a punch, that alone would make me presume that he could take anyone on the jla.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... well me and you have different opinions of the character because I think he would STOMP anyone on the jla (Sentry).

You are really pushing it with Classic Wonderman... he one shotted thor with a punch, that alone would make me presume that he could take anyone on the jla.

well thats what they call a high showing dear boy...his averages are not that grand.

As for Sentry, he's not stomping Hal, Clark or a non-jobbing Barry...MM would be a test for him imo as well

Originally posted by Sin I AM
well thats what they call a high showing dear boy...his averages are not that grand.

As for Sentry, he's not stomping Hal, Clark or a non-jobbing Barry...MM would be a test for him imo as well

What do you mean? He was matching thor afterwards, strength for strength. That's why I said classic... hell, even current wonderman would be a match for clark and diana.

When I say average I mean on more than one occasion. Thru-out his career Hulk has been shown to consistently beat Thing, even classic Savage Hulk. That what Im referring to, any character can beat Galactus these days...its the ability to consistently do it that makes u above trans

Originally posted by Sin I AM
When I say average I mean on more than one occasion. Thru-out his career Hulk has been shown to consistently beat Thing, even classic Savage Hulk. That what Im referring to, any character can beat Galactus these days...its the ability to consistently do it that makes u above trans

I know what you mean and classic wonderman has amazing feats besides taking it to thor... llliiiiikkkeee his fight with hyperion. He was smashed into a nearby sun by hyperion which made the sun go nova and wonderman didn't have a scratch on him.