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Who wins?

pretty sure this has bn done...

normally wins go to Sabe

Definitely been done before.

Sabretooth

edited.

TBH no PIS I still go with ST...

Originally posted by SamZED
TBH no PIS I still go with ST...
Same

Yeah; Bucky and Cap can give him fits but they're working in an hourglass fashion, it's just a matter of time.

Or it's like Armor Lock on Halo:Reach in team slayer when you're teams not there to back you up.... you're just prolonging the inevitable.

Captain America beating the shit out of Sabertooth on his own is pretty damn plausible at this point. That being said, I think Sabertooth should edge them out. At least if we ignore Steve's higher end showings.

I'm surprised I've never come across a Captain America fanboy. It'd be so easy to be one.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain America beating the shit out of Sabertooth on his own is pretty damn plausible at this point. That being said, I think Sabertooth should edge them out. At least if we ignore Steve's higher end showings.

I'm surprised I've never come across a Captain America fanboy. It'd be so easy to be one.
Oh there are a lot of them, I just don't think there are any who are exclusively or primarily Cap fanboys.

in a comic fight...

Cap would give Sabe a shield Bash of freedom to the face...

an uppercut of patriotism a boot of justice and ko sabe.

hands on hips after he wins b/c that's what real heroes do.

sentinel of liberty

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Oh there are a lot of them. name two

Or....
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/exilessabretoothvcap5.jpg


shifty

Originally posted by Starscream M
name two


Me for one.

Originally posted by Starscream M
name two
Daredevil11, Jukn (sp?) (I think), most Marvel street fans if it's a thread involving Cap vs a DC street

Im not a fanboy just because i think Steve Rogers takes Bruce Wayne handily.

Im just a realist

is this current bucky?

Originally posted by Juk3n
Im not a fanboy just because i think Steve Rogers takes Bruce Wayne handily.

Im just a realist
Heh okay sure.

WS and Rogers take it to him 7/10 maybe more

Steve and Buck are too squishy, Sabes has them in every physical catagory save h2h skill vs Steve, and even then im talking martial arts skill, not fighting IQ which he may well be equal aswell. Adamantium Sabes is a complete lock, non adamantium just wins, Sabes isn't getting KOed by punches from a 2 tonner in any universe let alone on a forum.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
WS and Rogers take it to him 7/10 maybe more

Nah.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
WS and Rogers take it to him 7/10 maybe more

i like this post, please elaborate on how sabretooth wins his 3 / 10.

HF and Claws...I think i know where your going, but look at it this way. I'd normally give Creed 5 to 6/10 odds over Steve. But Bucky is no slouch imo and even though they lack hf, i cant see y combined they couldnt k.o. him for the majority. Especially if caps welding his energy shield proficiently and Bucky gets his guns.

Steve Rogers would beat Sabes alone

Forget it.

Originally posted by Deadline
Forget it. um...ok...

Cap throws his shield and knocks him out
Bucky punches a hole through his chest.

Both of them are more skilled fighters than him too. Sabes only has the strength advantage.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
HF and Claws...I think i know where your going, but look at it this way. I'd normally give Creed 5 to 6/10 odds over Steve. But Bucky is no slouch imo and even though they lack hf, i cant see y combined they couldnt k.o. him for the majority. Especially if caps welding his energy shield proficiently and Bucky gets his guns.
Here your first problem you think Capt can get even split with sabre-tooth which is absurd. Capt can't even get an even split against Wolverine, but he some how going to get an even split against superior version of Wolverine?

I have a feeling your knowledge on sabre-tooth is sub par at best........

Originally posted by Sin I AM
HF and Claws...I think i know where your going, but look at it this way. I'd normally give Creed 5 to 6/10 odds over Steve. But Bucky is no slouch imo and even though they lack hf, i cant see y combined they couldnt k.o. him for the majority. Especially if caps welding his energy shield proficiently and Bucky gets his guns.

Uh.. How the hell are they going to knock out Sabretooth?
The guy shruggs off punches to the face from people like Sasquatch, Rogue and Ms. Marvel.

And.... what do you think a single gun is going to accomplish against Sabretooth?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain America beating the shit out of Sabertooth on his own is pretty damn plausible at this point. That being said, I think Sabertooth should edge them out. At least if we ignore Steve's higher end showings.

I'm surprised I've never come across a Captain America fanboy. It'd be so easy to be one.
yes you have you just did not notice it, becuase it rarely anymore debates in capt threads (mostly being of perhaps the amount of ridicule he got from some of his posts) and his name is deadline.

Originally posted by Starscream M
name two
king kam and deadline

that was easy.

King Kam?

are your refering to me and being a Cap fan?

Originally posted by King Castle
King Kam?

are your refering to me and being a Cap fan?
No I am referring to King Kam.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Cap throws his shield and knocks him out
Bucky punches a hole through his chest.

Both of them are more skilled fighters than him too. Sabes only has the strength advantage.

bafoonery

bucky int more skilled
Rogue/ms marvel and sasquach couldn't even injure him, how is bucky punching through him?
Sabes has a strength advantage, and agility advantage a speed advantage, a VAST durability advantage, a stamina advantage, a battlefield regeneration, a reflex advantage, a sense advantage damage output advantage..

in short You must have made a joke post..

Sas ability to underrate wolverine and his related character is astounding and boarder upon trolling. Honestly, I dont even think he believes the crap he states, I think he states it out of spite to be honest.

Originally posted by jinzin

And.... what do you think a single gun is going to accomplish against Sabretooth? a shot to the brain would bring creed down

Originally posted by Starscream M
a shot to the brain would bring creed down

see the respect thread, see cable/deadpool appearance, see the thousands of rounds Deadpool pumpedinto him while sabes stood stock still and recieved the lead like it was tickling him, now swap deadpools multiple guns for Buckys handgun, swap a standing still sabes for a fighting one..seriously dude you get alot of flack around here, but you don't help yourself sometimes.

Originally posted by Starscream M
a shot to the brain would bring creed down

you sure bout that?

Originally posted by Juk3n
see the respect thread, see cable/deadpool appearance, see the thousands of rounds Deadpool pumpedinto him while sabes stood stock still and recieved the lead like it was tickling him, now swap deadpools multiple guns for Buckys handgun, swap a standing still sabes for a fighting one..seriously dude you get alot of flack around here, but you don't help yourself sometimes.
thumbsup

Originally posted by Juk3n
see the respect thread, see cable/deadpool appearance, see the thousands of rounds Deadpool pumpedinto him while sabes stood stock still and recieved the lead like it was tickling him, now swap deadpools multiple guns for Buckys handgun, swap a standing still sabes for a fighting one..seriously dude you get alot of flack around here, but you don't help yourself sometimes. was he shot in the brain though?

Originally posted by Starscream M
was he shot in the brain though?

well there was about 20 mins of contiunuous fully auto rounds being pumped out by deadpool, we have to deduct that there was at least 100 odd shots to the head ... so, im sorry forgive my ignorance how is Bucy shooting Creed in the brain? just for clarification are you talking through the skull or by some other means?

Originally posted by Starscream M
was he shot in the brain though?
can you prove bucky could even shot sabre-tooth in the brain?

Bucky punches through his face
Creed has horrible durability and hes not dodging a shield throw from Steve in any case. He would lose especially against superior fighters like Steve and Bucky.

lol Poor Sabes, his whole career has been a sham guys.

Originally posted by Juk3n
well there was about 20 mins of contiunuous fully auto rounds being pumped out by deadpool, we have to deduct that there was at least 100 odd shots to the head ... so, im sorry forgive my ignorance how is Bucy shooting Creed in the brain? just for clarification are you talking through the skull or by some other means? yes through the skull

Originally posted by Starscream M
yes through the skull

That's..... not happening bud.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
can you prove bucky could even shot sabre-tooth in the brain? sabretooth doesn't have adamantium skull...bucky will shoot through his head

Originally posted by SasuOna
Bucky punches through his face
Creed has horrible durability and hes not dodging a shield throw from Steve in any case. He would lose especially against superior fighters like Steve and Bucky.
winner for most ignorant statement goes to..........Sasu.


Creed having horrible durability and him being unable to dodge capt shield throw , were do you come up with such opinions.

Originally posted by Starscream M
sabretooth doesn't have adamantium skull...bucky will shoot through his head
he does not need adamatium from preventing bullets form going through his head....for starters he faster then wolverine a legitment bullet dodger.....then there the fact his durability is at pretty dam high levels.......

Originally posted by Starscream M
sabretooth doesn't have adamantium skull...bucky will shoot through his head

Dude....

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/sabretooth_redzone_p43.jpg

NO....

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/sabretooth_redzone_p44.jpg

Seriously......




NO.

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/d15.jpg

that deadpool scan is PIS imo...or very very highend feat for creed...I don't think his hf actually that powerful

Originally posted by Starscream M
that deadpool scan is PIS imo...or very very highend feat for creed...I don't think his hf actually that powerful
why? Wolverine done similar and Sabre-tooth is suppose to heal faster......

it is that powerful..

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
why? Wolverine done similar and Sabre-tooth is suppose to heal faster...... wolverine has adamantium skull...which would prevent his vitals being hit

sabes doesn't have that luxury

Originally posted by Starscream M
wolverine has adamantium skull...which would prevent his vitals being hit

sabes doesn't have that luxury
here your problem you think sabre-tooth skull not being adamatium means bullets penetrate it which is not the case. He to dense they don't reach the vital area's any more then with wolverine. also only vital area that arnt reach by wolverine is the brain, bullets can reach ever were else, so your wrong.

Originally posted by Starscream M
wolverine has adamantium skull...which would prevent his vitals being hit

sabes doesn't have that luxury Creed super durability doesn't stem from having adamantium. he's already super durable to an insane degree

Sabe's durability comes from his mutation of having added mass.. his muscles are also denser and his skeleton adds to whats bn stated contributing overall to his superhuman durability.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Creed super durability doesn't stem from having adamantium. he's already super durable to an insane degree he;s very durable....although I hesitate to say he's superdurable

he's not bulletproof by any means

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
here your problem you think sabre-tooth skull not being adamatium means bullets penetrate it which is not the case. He to dense they don't reach the vital area's any more then with wolverine. also only vital area that arnt reach by wolverine is the brain, bullets can reach ever were else, so your wrong. his heart and lungs are also protected to a degree by his adamantium rib cage

Originally posted by Starscream M
I hesitate to say he's superdurable



is this genuine WILLFULL ignorance? or are you pulling my leg?

Originally posted by Starscream M
he;s very durable....although I hesitate to say he's superdurable

he's not bulletproof by any means
yes he is most certain superhuman in durability, hell wolverine has beyond human durability and thats with out adamatium and sabre-tooth is many times more durable then he.


actual sabre-tooth bones are bullet proof. as you can see from the scans the hit from the head have no exit wound, because there not penetrating the skull.

Originally posted by Starscream M
his heart and lungs are also protected to a degree by his adamantium rib cage
they can both be hitt and have by bullets and bladed weapons.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
yes he is most certain superhuman in durability, hell wolverine has beyond human durability and thats with out adamatium and sabre-tooth is many times more durable then he.


actual sabre-tooth bones are bullet proof. as you can see from the scans the hit from the head have no exit wound, because there not penetrating the skull. I hope you're not serious.

not having an exit wound in no way means there was no penetration.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I hope you're not serious.

not having an exit wound in no way means there was no penetration.
There no proof they are penetrating. In fact those three scan suggest three not penetrating. In fact the only think I have ever seen penetrate sabre-tooth skull is adamatium.

just think about how strong his claws are and the material they can slice through and contribute it to his skeleton to an extend.

What killed Sabes again?

Originally posted by King Castle
just think about how strong his claws are and the material they can slice through and contribute it to his skeleton to an extend.
his claws just like wolverine are just as durable as his skeleton.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
What killed Sabes again?
wolverine mursama blade.

Originally posted by King Castle
just think about how strong his claws are and the material they can slice through and contribute it to his skeleton to an extend. can we assume his claws and skull are the same material?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
What killed Sabes again? a magic sword that splices molecules....

Originally posted by Starscream M
can we assume his claws and skull are the same material?
yes because they are.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I hope you're not serious.

not having an exit wound in no way means there was no penetration.

so youve answered your own question right? if theyDID penetrate..they have no effect eh? so no brain bullet for bucky by your own logic.

Originally posted by Starscream M
can we assume his claws and skull are the same material?

Originally posted by Juk3n
so youve answered your own question right? if theyDID penetrate..they have no effect eh? so no brain bullet for bucky by your own logic. well the only scan was that deadpool one...and that seemed like a ridiculous high showing for creed's hf that I don't quite buy

Originally posted by jinzin



persuasive debating there dood!

Sabertooth has superhuman durability yet hes shown countless times not being bullet proof and getting slashed by swords and bleeding from things like that.
Conclusion his durability is not superhuman. His healing factor is the only thing saving him from getting killed.

Also No Sabertooth is not dodging a shield throw from Cap which can cut through helicopters and tanks.

Cap and Bucky take this

More persuasive than attempting an argument where Sabretooth's claws are not made of the same material as his bones?
Or trying to make an argument that his fingernails are actually MORE durable than his bones? That persuasive?

Originally posted by Starscream M
well the only scan was that deadpool one...and that seemed like a ridiculous high showing for creed's hf that I don't quite buy
what are you talking about he posted three scans of it happening........

Sabes has always been super durable.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Sabertooth has superhuman durability yet hes shown countless times not being bullet proof and getting slashed by swords and bleeding from things like that.
Conclusion his durability is not superhuman. His healing factor is the only thing saving him from getting killed.

Also No Sabertooth is not dodging a shield throw from Cap which can cut through helicopters and tanks.

Cap and Bucky take this
Again that does not mean he does not have superhuman durability. there many different levels and types. such as piercing and blunt force durability.

no his durability is most deffiently superhuman, you just seem unable to understand that a person does not need to be bullet proof to have superhuman durability. Though sabre-tooth bones are most certainly bullet proof.



yes he can and he can wistand it as well.

love your logic, but how can anyone take you serous, just look at your posts in this thread laughable at best. Espicially the statement made by you that sabre-tooth has horrible durability and that bucky would punch through his face........

everyone must have you on ignore, I think I will do the same

Creed edges it out slightly.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Sabertooth has superhuman durability yet hes shown countless times not being bullet proof and getting slashed by swords and bleeding from things like that.
Conclusion his durability is not superhuman. His healing factor is the only thing saving him from getting killed.

Also No Sabertooth is not dodging a shield throw from Cap which can cut through helicopters and tanks.

Cap and Bucky take this

Oh I see.. Now you're serious?....

cool.

Well first off, Sabretooth's proven to have bullet proof bones on at least two occassions now, and there's no counter evidence to the contrary.

Sabretooth's proven to be bomb proof, fire resistant, and nosediving blackbird exploding jet resistant....

Ms. Marvel a certified class 60 couldn't use a nerve pinch on Sabretooth because his muscles were likened to steel cables.

Rogue, of the same strength class with the same invulnerability gimmick failed to do anything but get a smile out of Creed when she launched his head into a wall and rained blows upon him.

He's tanked optic blasts point blank to center mass without being stopped or slowed down.
He was able to knock rogue out with his stopping power....

At what point you think you can accurately conclude that he DOESN'T have superhuman durability is completely beyond me..

Because he can be cut? I guess Thor, Wonderwoman and a host of others have no superhuman durability either huh?

His healing factor is faster acting than Wolverine and doesn't even have to do a FRACTION of the work that Wolverine's does BECAUSE of his superhuman durability.....


If Sabretooth can dodge Punisher's automatic gunfire and Cyclops' optic blasts, than he can dodge a shield throw... if he even has to....


So tell me....

How are Cap and Bucky stopping this?

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/dogs3.jpg

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/dogs4.jpg

How are they even slowing that down?

Tell me how a bullet piercing his body doesn't mean that Cap's shield wouldn't carve his body apart?

Bucky's artificial arm is capable of breaking steel Sabertooth does not have the durability to tank repeated blows like that to the head.

Originally posted by jinzin
Oh I see.. Now you're serious?....

cool.

Well first off, Sabretooth's proven to have bullet proof bones on at least two occassions now, and there's no counter evidence to the contrary.

Sabretooth's proven to be bomb proof, fire resistant, and nosediving blackbird exploding jet resistant....

Ms. Marvel a certified class 60 couldn't use a nerve pinch on Sabretooth because his muscles were likened to steel cables.

Rogue, of the same strength class with the same invulnerability gimmick failed to do anything but get a smile out of Creed when she launched his head into a wall and rained blows upon him.

He's tanked optic blasts point blank to center mass without being stopped or slowed down.
He was able to knock rogue out with his stopping power....

At what point you think you can accurately conclude that he DOESN'T have superhuman durability is completely beyond me..

Because he can be cut? I guess Thor, Wonderwoman and a host of others have no superhuman durability either huh?

His healing factor is faster acting than Wolverine and doesn't even have to do a FRACTION of the work that Wolverine's does BECAUSE of his superhuman durability.....


If Sabretooth can dodge Punisher's automatic gunfire and Cyclops' optic blasts, than he can dodge a shield throw... if he even has to....


So tell me....

How are Cap and Bucky stopping this?


How are they even slowing that down?

via the hopes and patriotic dreams of his fanbase and writer armor..

Originally posted by SasuOna
Tell me how a bullet piercing his body doesn't mean that Cap's shield wouldn't carve his body apart?

Bucky's artificial arm is capable of breaking steel Sabertooth does not have the durability to tank repeated blows like that to the head.

Are you referencing his skin/meat then? Because while Cap MAY have the ability to cut Creed with his shield, the shield isn't the most effecient cutting weapon.. 6 adamantium blades might do the trick thou-- oh wait...



As for Bucky... ugh.. dude... Really? Sabretooth tanked multiple punches by Ms. Marvel to the head before he ever had an upgrade and she admitted it took a bunch of them just to knock him down.....

If he can tank blows from MS marvel and survive falling from the sky, he would be bullet proof, hes not however therefore you riding on about his superhuman ability to endure blunt force trauma has no baring in this fight.

His durability isn't that high and your use of high ends feats just shows how inconsistent they are with his character.

All your doing is making a case for his endurance

Originally posted by SasuOna
If he can tank blows from MS marvel and survive falling from the sky, he would be bullet proof

Griffin battled Wonder Man and he ain't bulletproof either. Real life logic doesn't apply to comics.

Originally posted by SasuOna
If he can tank blows from MS marvel and survive falling from the sky, he would be bullet proof, hes not however therefore you riding on about his superhuman ability to endure blunt force trauma has no baring in this fight.

His durability isn't that high and your use of high ends feats just shows how inconsistent they are with his character.

All your doing is making a case for his endurance

He has also taken hits from wendigo and numerous of attacks from the xmen combined... let's not even forget the combined attacks that he took from some mini supermen and he also withstood attacks from both spidey and punisher.

does anyone have the phalanx storyline where Everette aka synch stated that his mutant aura gave him Sabretooth added muscle mass and height?

a physical mutation.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Griffin battled Wonder Man and he ain't bulletproof either. Real life logic doesn't apply to comics.

In debates were only supposed to use feats that are quantifiable. We know that Sabertooth is just like an other peak human character not bullet proof. We know that people with superhuman strength can rip people apart in the MU. We know that a character with superhuman strength hitting someone with no superhuman durability would rip them apart.

The correct thing to say is the logic in comics is a trope. For example Ive seen characters disappear on panel and appear behind another character without them noticing. You still can't use this as a basis to say the character has superhuman speed.

Ive seen Daredevil get hit by the Hulk and he wasn't ripped apart yet we know enough to state that the Hulk is easily capable of this.


So by all this logic we know that its highly unlikely that Sabertooth would remain fallible to bullets and piercings if he truly was capable of tanking class 50 or above hits.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Sabertooth has superhuman durability yet hes shown countless times not being bullet proof and getting slashed by swords and bleeding from things like that.
Conclusion his durability is not superhuman. His healing factor is the only thing saving him from getting killed.




spider-man has been see countless times being tagged by lowly thugs, conclusion..he doesn't have super agility and pre-cog?

DUH!

you know the most famous herald being with no piercing durability, Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by King Castle
you know the most famous herald being with no piercing durability, Wonder Woman.
She has piercing durability. It just isn't as high as her blunt durability and energy soak.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
She has piercing durability. technically, everyone has piercing durability.

Right so were arguing that Cap can stun or Ko Sabretooth. Him doing so is PIS?

Originally posted by Starscream M
technically, everyone has piercing durability.
She has superhuman piercing durability.

Originally posted by SasuOna
If he can tank blows from MS marvel and survive falling from the sky, he would be bullet proof,


He has, he has, he is to some variable degree.

Your credibility? Shot.


Originally posted by SasuOna
hes not however therefore you riding on about his superhuman ability to endure blunt force trauma has no baring in this fight.

His durability isn't that high and your use of high ends feats just shows how inconsistent they are with his character.

All your doing is making a case for his endurance

Yup his career has no barring on this fight...

What part of getting up in 1 panel after re-entry has ANTHING to do with endurance?

Originally posted by SasuOna
In debates were only supposed to use feats that are quantifiable. We know that Sabertooth is just like an other peak human character not bullet proof. We know that people with superhuman strength can rip people apart in the MU. We know that a character with superhuman strength hitting someone with no superhuman durability would rip them apart.

The correct thing to say is the logic in comics is a trope. For example Ive seen characters disappear on panel and appear behind another character without them noticing. You still can't use this as a basis to say the character has superhuman speed.

Ive seen Daredevil get hit by the Hulk and he wasn't ripped apart yet we know enough to state that the Hulk is easily capable of this.


So by all this logic we know that its highly unlikely that Sabertooth would remain fallible to bullets and piercings if he truly was capable of tanking class 50 or above hits. Sabretooth isn't Daredevil...

Sabretooth isn't "peak human" or anything even remotely close...

Where the hell did you get your information? A 1980's handbook or something?

Your comparisons are moot as DD surviving a Hulk punch is easily PIS where as Sabretooth having superhuman durability is just a basic character trait/representation....

Comics have different types of durability...



Where the hell did all these ignorant ass trolls come from in the last couple of weeks?

This crap is ridiculous.

By the way Cap does have the ability to KO and stun Sabretooth but all feats that indicate this are all PIS and have circumstances.

Originally posted by jinzin
Or....
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/exilessabretoothvcap5.jpg


shifty


What issue is that from? Also what is Cap wearing on his shoulder?

Your whole line of logic is flawed

Comics don't have different types of durability that whole line of reasoning like Piercing=/=blunt force blows goes out the window when your having a debate.

If a character was truly super durable bullets would not be able to pierce their skin. Characters able to punch through steel would easily have more stopping power than any type of gun. So logically we know that if a character is consistently penetrated by bullets that it is genuine PIS that they survive getting punched by a character that much stronger than a Bullet's stopping power.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Your whole line of logic is flawed

Comics don't have different types of durability that whole line of reasoning like Piercing=/=blunt force blows goes out the window when your having a debate.

If a character was truly super durable bullets would not be able to pierce their skin. Characters able to punch through steel would easily have more stopping power than any type of gun. So logically we know that if a character is consistently penetrated by bullets that it is genuine PIS that they survive getting punched by a character that much stronger than a Bullet's stopping power.

piercing damage IS different from Blunt force trauma, thats why spiderman can take a hit from the MASSIVE FIST of class 100 Rhino, but can be stabbed by anyone. Comics DO have different types of durability the whole line of reasoning behind debating bullet durability vs Fist/object/blunt forcer trauma durability is especially valid in debates. i don't think ive seen a post with more wrongy wrongness in all my time here in f77.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
What issue is that from? Also what is Cap wearing on his shoulder?

Exiles it's a Cap from a different reality.

Not to mention the Sabertooth is from a different reality as well

Originally posted by Juk3n
Steve and Buck are too squishy, Sabes has them in every physical catagory save h2h skill vs Steve, and even then im talking martial arts skill, not fighting IQ which he may well be equal aswell. Adamantium Sabes is a complete lock, non adamantium just wins, Sabes isn't getting KOed by punches from a 2 tonner in any universe let alone on a forum.

By the way Cap does actually have the skill to KO Sabretooth. His punches have worked on people far tougher.

Originally posted by Deadline
By the way Cap does actually have the skill to KO Sabretooth. His punches have worked on people far tougher.

Steves average Punching showings are far below Sabretooths average blunt force trauma resistance showings. The pair hold not 1 single physical advantage, they would win by plot device in comics, on a forum they have a very slim chance.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Steves average Punching showings are far below Sabretooths average blunt force trauma resistance showings.


Steve doesn't usually fight people tougher than Sabretooth on an average basis, but when he does he gots loads of showings that prove he can.

Originally posted by Juk3n

The pair hold not 1 single physical advantage, they would win by plot device in comics, on a forum they have a very slim chance.

Martial skill, tactics and theres two of them.

Originally posted by Deadline
By the way Cap does have the ability to KO and stun Sabretooth but all feats that indicate this are all PIS and have circumstances.

Stun Sabretooth? Maybe.

KO Sabretooth not bloody likely.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
What issue is that from? Also what is Cap wearing on his shoulder?

Exiles issue, hence the shifty face.. I don't remember which.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Your whole line of logic is flawed

Comics don't have different types of durability that whole line of reasoning like Piercing=/=blunt force blows goes out the window when your having a debate.

If a character was truly super durable bullets would not be able to pierce their skin. Characters able to punch through steel would easily have more stopping power than any type of gun. So logically we know that if a character is consistently penetrated by bullets that it is genuine PIS that they survive getting punched by a character that much stronger than a Bullet's stopping power.

Do you even understand how piecing/cutting/and blunt force trauma differ at a physics level?


Just look at a bullet proof vest and you have your answer...

there ARE different types of durability used in comics and you acting like a child about it isn't going to change that.

Originally posted by Deadline
By the way Cap does actually have the skill to KO Sabretooth. His punches have worked on people far tougher.

1. Cap puncing out bricks is PIS.
You know that.


2. Even IF you want to take this stance and pretend it isn't PIS, Cap doesn't put down people with Sabretooth's level of durability AND healing... He has a hard enough time attempting that shit on Logan.

Originally posted by jinzin
1. Cap puncing out bricks is PIS.
You know that.




That I agree with but Creed standard portrayal is being over blown for his High end feats as well. Cap with his shield has hurt bricks because of the shield though and that I don't consider PIS.

Just the fist punching is a bit to much.

I do give Creed the advantage though and that includes over your fan favorite Elektra as well.

Originally posted by jinzin
1. Cap puncing out bricks is PIS.
You know that.

Ok then Wolverine taking class 100 shots is PIS then. Considering that bullets, swords and even punches can make him bleed one class 100 punch will destory his flesh.

Originally posted by jinzin

2. Even IF you want to take this stance and pretend it isn't PIS, Cap doesn't put down people with Sabretooth's level of durability AND healing... He has a hard enough time attempting that shit on Logan.

Proffessor Hulk, Korvac, Thunderball etc.



Originally posted by Daredevil1
That I agree with but Creed standard portrayal is being over blown for his High end feats as well. Cap with his shield has hurt bricks because of the shield though and that I don't consider PIS.

Just the fist punching is a bit to much.

I do give Creed the advantage though and that includes over your fan favorite Elektra as well.

It's not PIS hes been doing shit like that since his early appearances. His shield maybe indestructible but the same logic applies Cap at most has class 2 strength.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
That I agree with but Creed standard portrayal is being over blown for his High end feats as well. Cap with his shield has hurt bricks because of the shield though and that I don't consider PIS.

Just the fist punching is a bit to much.

I do give Creed the advantage though and that includes over your fan favorite Elektra as well.



Fair enough...

Yeah Cap hurting people of high end durability with his shield is fine IMO to an extent at least.. but the fist stuff... bleh.

Originally posted by jinzin
Do you even understand how piecing/cutting/and blunt force trauma differ at a physics level?


Just look at a bullet proof vest and you have your answer...

there ARE different types of durability used in comics and you acting like a child about it isn't going to change that.

LOL
Talk about grade school logic

This has nothing to do with physics and your rational about bullet proof vests is idiotic absorbing small arms impact is the only thing stopping the bullet from passing through the vest. In case you didn't know this is why people are bruised when they get shot while wearing a vest. Its not stopping the impact its only absorbing it and keeping it from reaching its full potential energy by spreading it throughout the vest.

A bullets stopping power is enough to pierce Sabertooth's skin and this is consistent with his character. You wanting to hand wave this away as an instance of different types of durability is even more laughable.

A regular bullet has enough force to super cede any type of durability Creed may have.

Class 20 and above characters have at least 49 times the energy out put in their fists than any bullet has coming out the muzzle. Resistance to blunt force trauma is one thing but using this as an example of him having superhuman durability that can survive falls from the sky and punches from Ms Marvel like its nothing is stupid. He would truly be bulletproof if this was the case hes not however so I can easily make the claim that all his high end showings you've been talking about are most likely PIS.

Originally posted by SasuOna


Class 20 and above characters have at least 49 times the energy out put in their fists than any bullet has coming out the muzzle. Resistance to blunt force trauma is one thing but using this as an example of him having superhuman durability that can survive falls from the sky and punches from Ms Marvel like its nothing is stupid. He would truly be bulletproof if this was the case hes not however so I can easily make the claim that all his high end showings are PIS.

I don't actually agree with your logic but jinzin is going to argue against you and reinforce my point. Logically Sabretooth shouldn't be able to withstand some of those blunt trauma attacks but hes going to argue that its not PIS and then argue that its PIS for Cap to hurt bricks with his fist. Double standards.

It doesn't neccsarily have to make any sense, except for some rare examples consistency is the most important factor that makes a feat not PIS.

Oh wait he was trying to use real world logic to justify it.....

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok then Wolverine taking class 100 shots is PIS then. Considering that bullets, swords and even punches can make him bleed one class 100 punch will destory his flesh. Class 100 shots liquify every organ in his body... I don't know how many times it has to be pointed out to you that this statement's been made in comics.

I know Srank has been doing it for years.

Between Wolverine having an adamantium skeleton, superhuman body, and a healing factor that can heal mortal injury as fast as it was made... How is him taking a class 100 shot PIS?

Originally posted by Deadline
Proffessor Hulk, Korvac, Thunderball etc.

Are fantastic examples of PIS thank you.


You don't understand the difference between a character being written up, down, or typical on panel representation?

Well of course not but I digress.




Originally posted by Deadline
It's not PIS hes been doing shit like that since his early appearances. His shield maybe indestructible but the same logic applies Cap at most has class 2 strength.

Tell me logically how Cap's class 2 strength is a means to bybass class 100+ durability that has proven to resist even various forms of adamantium weaponry...

Is Cap more durable than Adamantium now?


Bleh, it really doesn't matter Deadline because your ass backwards logic is completely flawed anyways.

"Cap takes tougher guys than Sabretooth all the time" isn't an answer on how he is going to win this fight.

1.) SABRETOOTH takes tougher guys than Cap all the time.
-It's an argument that works both ways and it certainly doesn't address anything even remotely relivent in the thread.

2.) Sabretooth makes it his dayjob to harrass, beat, and humiliate someone who is practically Cap's carbon copy in Wolverine... except that when he beats on Wolverine he has to work past a healing factor that's>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cap's healing abilities AND he thinks it's a game when he is doing so.

3.)The real issue doesn't even have to do with the fact that Sabretooth takes tougher guys out than Cap, it has to do much more with the fact that Sabretooth IS a tougher guy than Cap....

Again....
This:
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/dogs4.jpg

Even IF Captain America had the damage output to be able to break Sabretooth's bones with his blows (And he certainly does not), AND he had some sort of attack that could break all of Sabretooth's bones at once..... look at how much good that would be doing him.

NONE comes to mind.

So no, unless you can explain to me how Cap is going to win besides just insisting that he will, I'm not going to even begin taking your argument seriously.

The fact that a weaker version of Sabretooth beat Cap's elseworlds equal with more weaponry is just icing on that particular cake....

Sabretooth FTW.

Originally posted by SasuOna
LOL
Talk about grade school logic

This has nothing to do with physics and your rational about bullet proof vests is idiotic absorbing small arms impact is the only thing stopping the bullet from passing through the vest. In case you didn't know this is why people are bruised when they get shot while wearing a vest. Its not stopping the impact its only absorbing it and keeping it from reaching its full potential energy by spreading it throughout the vest.

A bullets stopping power is enough to pierce Sabertooth's skin and this is consistent with his character. You wanting to hand wave this away as an instance of different types of durability is even more laughable.

A regular bullet has enough force to super cede any type of durability Creed may have.

Class 20 and above characters have at least 49 times the energy out put in their fists than any bullet has coming out the muzzle. Resistance to blunt force trauma is one thing but using this as an example of him having superhuman durability that can survive falls from the sky and punches from Ms Marvel like its nothing is stupid. He would truly be bulletproof if this was the case hes not however so I can easily make the claim that all his high end showings you've been talking about are most likely PIS.



A bullet proof vest absorbs the impact and redistributes it across the surface area... it can't do that with a knife because the surface area of the weapon is too damned small to redistribute or absorb.

The fact that you can't even concede to that FACT that knives going through vests and bullets failing is sheer proof to how idiotic your ability to engage in critical thinking truly is.

The fact that Sabretooth has different types of durability is "consistent with his character" and the fact that you want to hand wave this away by arguing against his consistency only when it suits you is what's laughable here.

Bullets have flat out failed to reach Sabretooth's brain upon impact of his skull 2 out of 2 times.


Again your entire argument beckons people to IGNORE the FACT that comics have varying levels of durability.
It beckons us to IGNORE the FACT that Sabretooth take class 100 shots with a smile on his face.
It basically beckons us to IGNORE the entirety of Sabretooth's career displaying superhuman durability.
And all the while you want to take instances from Sabretooth's "conisistency" getting shot or cut to support your case?


Like I said, ridiculous and childish.

we are suppose to use average showings and with sabe the average showing is insane..

PIS rules also keeps us from using lowballing.

Originally posted by King Castle
PIS rules also keeps us from using lowballing.

You've completely missed the point. However I'll elaborate later.

Originally posted by Deadline
I don't actually agree with your logic but jinzin is going to argue against you and reinforce my point. Logically Sabretooth shouldn't be able to withstand some of those blunt trauma attacks but hes going to argue that its not PIS and then argue that its PIS for Cap to hurt bricks with his fist. Double standards.

It doesn't neccsarily have to make any sense, except for some rare examples consistency is the most important factor that makes a feat not PIS.

Oh wait he was trying to use real world logic to justify it.....

Lol the only thing that I was using real world logic for was to convey a simple principle that varying levels of durability are suseptible to varying types of attacks/weaponry.

Comics use the notion of that principle ALL THE TIME.
and if you think otherwise and you're willing to piss on that principle to belittle my argument....
Then:
Tell me why in your opinion Sabretooth getting shot is something that should be taken at face value and NOT Sabretooth having absurd levels of superhuman durability... Because I can pretty much guarantee that when it comes to consistency.. superhuman Sabretooth is displayed a LOT more often.

Again, you don't understand the differences between character's being written up or down, OR typical representations.. so I don't actually expect a thought provoking answer here.

WOW

only problem is knives don't go through vests that are made to deal with that type of thing like the ones with ceramic plates, so there goes your whole line of using made up logic again.

they penetrate regular bullet proof vests because the point of the knife can slip and weave through the fabric not because they have any type of difference in the damage they cause compared to a bullet.

LOL at your grade school logic

Sabertooth doesn't have superhuman durability thats just a trope that you are needlessly abusing in a debate. Once again his healing factor is the thing allowing him to survive all that abuse.

Originally posted by SasuOna
WOW

only problem is knives don't go through vests that are made to deal with that type of thing like the ones with ceramic plates, so there goes your whole line of using made up logic again.

they penetrate regular bullet proof vests because the point of the knife can slip and weave through the fabric not because they have any type of difference in the damage they cause compared to a bullet.

LOL at your grade school logic

Sabertooth doesn't have superhuman durability thats just a trope that you are needlessly abusing in a debate. Once again his healing factor is the thing allowing him to survive all that abuse.

That actually kinda makes sense. Obvoulsy Sabretooth is alot more durable than a normal human, but I wouldn't really say he has superhuman durability. Its like it says in Wolverines bio: Superhuman durbaility regenerative (or something like that). I think I agree with you.

Damn it I'm not supposed to be posting.

ceramic kevlar chest plate also crack when you drop them and are not suppose to be used due to them being compromised..

also depending on the depth and the material a blade can or just as easily not penetrate.

a good thick kevlar chest plate i doubt a blade can penetrate it.

other types like used by police have a better chance of being penetrated by a knife.

but non of that has anything to do with this debate.

aside from that its bn stated on panel about sabretooth's muscle mass from Ms. marvel, synch in the phalanx storyline and even by himself due to his upgraded status... others included have bn wolverine..

Whether ppl wanna admit it or not sabe's durability is superhuman

Originally posted by SasuOna
WOW

only problem is knives don't go through vests that are made to deal with that type of thing

So they have to specialize the vest to stop the knife huh?....
proof of varying levels of durability...

Well done.

Originally posted by SasuOna
like the ones with ceramic plates, so there goes your whole line of using made up logic again.
No you just proved it for me.

Originally posted by SasuOna
they penetrate regular bullet proof vests because the point of the knife can slip and weave through the fabric not because they have any type of difference in the damage they cause compared to a bullet.
BECAUSE of the small surface area...
Are you RELLY this dense?

LOL at your grade school logic

Originally posted by SasuOna
Sabertooth doesn't have superhuman durability thats just a trope that you are needlessly abusing in a debate. Once again his healing factor is the thing allowing him to survive all that abuse. Uh, yeah he does....


Again, WHERE are you getting your information?

That's not a rhetorical question I'd really like to know.

Originally posted by Deadline
That actually kinda makes sense. Obvoulsy Sabretooth is alot more durable than a normal human, but I wouldn't really say he has superhuman durability. Its like it says in Wolverines bio: Superhuman durbaility regenerative (or something like that). I think I agree with you.

Damn it I'm not supposed to be posting.

Sabretooth tanks class 100 punches to the face, his muscles are like steel cables too durable for a class 65 to nerve pinch, he's tanked a granade launcher landing center mass, he walked out of a black birg jet crash at the nose of the plane with minor tissue damage, he shrugged off a rail gun designed to kill him, shrugged off an Iron Fist attack with no tissue damage, Black Cat suped to classic Spidey levels hurt herself kicking Creed, Silver Sable said Sabretooth was harder than a brick wall, he tanked a head on collision from Cannonball, again his friggin FINGERNAILS can cut through stone, steel, iron rock.

He's superhuman in durability. Even Wolverine's referenced that while trying to cut him with his damned Adamantium claws for god sakes...



But you think otherwise huh?


Yeah... guess we'll just add that to the loonnnnnnnnng ass laundry list of bathoonery when it comes to you and your take on Wolverine/wolvie brood characters..

Par for the course Deadline... Par for the course.

i find it odd that repeated mention of his superhuman attributes from various ppl and writers has less legitimacy then when it is applied to other heroes like DD and his one shot throat chop..facepalm2


how can a character and his history be so blatantly ignored while another is praised and reference as a likely used ability?

is this 616 sabes or exiles? cuz the scan is from exiles..........

Originally posted by King Castle
i find it odd that repeated mention of his superhuman attributes from various ppl and writers has less legitimacy then when it is applied to other heroes like DD and his one shot throat chop..facepalm2


how can a character and his history be so blatantly ignored while another is praised and reference as a likely used ability?


Logically? It can't...



But you see that's where guys like Deadline and Sas are able to put us at our wit's end.

They're able to think outside the box (Way outside the box) allowing their characters to win... because... well...... because whatever they want. thumbsup

Guys like you and I could only HOPE to aspire to such vision.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
is this 616 sabes or exiles? cuz the scan is from exiles..........

Yeah... we know... Hence the shifty eyes.... ? Did everyone miss the shifty eyes?

Sin I am missed them

it was used to show a probable scenario nothing more....

what pisses me off is that Cap doesnt have to work this hard for his attributes of poison immunity, superhuman low end strength, durability, low end regeneration and host of other abilities that we regularly acknowledge when he has less then 1 or 2 showings of said abilities..

It's Cap the character with the biggest jobbing aura in comics.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Sin I am missed them

i wont miss you sweetheart


People STILL keep confusing HF with Durability...his hf is superhuman in the broadest sense of the term and only in regards to blunt trauma. Its his hf thats makes him a force to be reckoned with.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i wont miss you sweetheart


People STILL keep confusing HF with Durability...his hf is superhuman in the broadest sense of the term and only in regards to blunt trauma. Its his hf thats makes him a force to be reckoned with.
He's strictly superhuman in both.

When Ms. Marvel can't squeeze your muscles and tendons because they're too hard, that has nothing to do with a healing factor.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i wont miss you sweetheart


People STILL keep confusing HF with Durability...his hf is superhuman in the broadest sense of the term and only in regards to blunt trauma. Its his hf thats makes him a force to be reckoned with. smoking is bad for you..



Sabretooth took a shot to the chest with a rail gun with no effect he claimed it was thanks to his son's upgrade..

Ms. Marvel tried to pinch him and pummel him and stated she was unable to apply a nerve pinch that his muscles were like steel.


Synch from generation X during the Phalanx storyline stated that he got his added muscle mass and height from his mutagenic aura which latched on to Sabretooth...


Wolverine when he was held captive by the weapon X and the director fought Sabe and stated that Sabe was not just faster and stronger but appeared even more durable then before...

Sabe also took a direct hit to the chest with a grenade launcher he stated he had bn improved when he fought DP...

sabe also took titanium explosive tip rounds from maverick the wounds were small and maverick asked how he was able to stand with the titanium explosive rounds... Sabe once again stated he had bn improved.

then you have the time he was shot by Cyclops in the head with a compressed bullet sized blast.. sabe was not ko'ed nor did it penetrate his skull...

then there is the time he was hit with a machete the blade barely made it the surface of his skull b4 it was stopped by his dense bone skull....


added everything we know about sabe's mutant added muscle mass his dense bones which we know is denser then his Keratin claws... and you have a pretty durable superhuman who also has superior Healing factor above Logan and from time to time depending what we believe in the inconsistency of his disappeared adamatium skeleton and you got a bad momma jamma

sounds like PIS to me...I dont know of the scan, what was her power level 50/60 ish?

Oh and Caps aura is no worse than any mutie with claws and a hf,unless their evil because they get away with some outlandish shite...

besides he's American he should win by default

Originally posted by Sin I AM
sounds like PIS to me...I dont know of the scan, what was her power level 50/60 ish?

Oh and Caps aura is no worse than any mutie with claws and a hf,unless their evil because they get away with some outlandish shite...

besides he's American he should win by default you are just saying that b/c ms. marvel stated it and not some one else

Ms. Marvel is a bad example, she's one of the worse jobbers, i mean she got wrapped p in SMs webbing (until it evaps) and i think she was 60 or 70 at the time

so that was what half a decade ago?

i never considered her a jobber just that powersets were depicted different in the 60 through 90's.

and depends what year spidey used his webbing.. back in the 80's Spidey was experimenting with his web tensile strength, stickiness it was high end stuff... even jugg had trouble with it since it was not only stronger then b4 but it also stretched making it difficult to break out of. Jugg even took down some buildings b4 the web gave due to it being anchored to the building and street..

other dudes who had problems with it was woodgod and hulk.. sure they broke out but it took them a lil extra umpfh..

I can't remeber Hulk having problems with webbing.

even thor once had trouble with spiderman's webbing as well....

Originally posted by King Castle
even thor once had trouble with spiderman's webbing as well....
I just remember the comic where he tore through it "as if it was not there"

I mean can't Spider-Man himself break it with some effort?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I just remember the comic where he tore through it "as if it was not there"

I mean can't Spider-Man himself break it with some effort? yes. it depends on the writer normally a 10 to 30 tonner should be capable of easily tearing it.

the thor reference was back in the day when suspension of disbelief was high.. Spidey made some web walls and thor was slowed down also if i recall correctly spidey manage to web mjonlir and slow it down..

Seems completely accrate to me.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I just remember the comic where he tore through it "as if it was not there" That was Hulk.

Originally posted by Deadline


Martial skill, tactics and theres two of them.

tactical prowess isn't a physical catagory, and i doubt very much that they are more combat tactics savvy than sabretooth, just because being a great tactician is one of Caps note worthy strong points doesn't mean he's better then someone who, has fought just as varied opponents through out a career which is as long or longer than Cap. Creed is a master tactician in his own specialized way.

Martial skill meh, it's not the same as Fighting IQ, But to clarify by physical advantage imean the bread and butter.

Strength
Speed
Reflxes
Agility
Durability
Regeneration
Senses
Size/Reach
Stamina

Originally posted by King Castle
so that was what half a decade ago?

i never considered her a jobber just that powersets were depicted different in the 60 through 90's.

and depends what year spidey used his webbing.. back in the 80's Spidey was experimenting with his web tensile strength, stickiness it was high end stuff... even jugg had trouble with it since it was not only stronger then b4 but it also stretched making it difficult to break out of. Jugg even took down some buildings b4 the web gave due to it being anchored to the building and street..

other dudes who had problems with it was woodgod and hulk.. sure they broke out but it took them a lil extra umpfh..


no it was during civil war

well then.. i blame Spidey's jobber aura and not Ms. Marvel..

he pulls sh#$ like that b/c he is popular.

i agree she should be able to break out of it or tear the strands unless she was tripped.. or completely enveloped..

but, Ms. Marvel's statement on sabe still stands.