Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Max gets an infinite amount of blood.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/64422/1342127-ml_large.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/159167-36553-manchester-black_large.jpg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/71666/1489898-charles_xavier_large.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/64695/1530979-uncanny_x_men_530_03_large.jpg

Ah, well, with an infinite amount of blood*, Max is incredibly strong. At minimum I'd expect him to hold them off long enough for Manchester to do a TK smackdown, but it wouldn't surprise me if they could just win outright.

Lord has very little limits aside from blood loss.


*Weirded. Telepath. Weakness. Ever.

Xavier and Emma.

Does Max Lord even have any telepathic defenses? What's stopping Emma from just psi-bolting him?

Also, I don't think Manchester Black can even access his telekinesis if Xavier drags him into the Astral Plane, where he'd get owned.

Definitely gotta go with Xavier/Emma; Much of Max's *real* strength lies in his manipulating things over the long haul -- that's how he was able to gain control of Superman, something he wouldn't normally have otherwise been able to do, outright. And Xavier is certainly even more resistant than Clark; meanwhile, Emma isn't too far behind Xavier (as she was stated as being an Omega Level mutant). Black can certainly pull some stunts, but Team 1 is going to lose the majority against 2, definitely.

Xavier solos.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Definitely gotta go with Xavier/Emma; Much of Max's *real* strength lies in his manipulating things over the long haul -- that's how he was able to gain control of Superman, something he wouldn't normally have otherwise been able to do, outright. And Xavier is certainly even more resistant than Clark; meanwhile, Emma isn't too far behind Xavier (as she was stated as being an Omega Level mutant). Black can certainly pull some stunts, but Team 1 is going to lose the majority against 2, definitely.

His skill has definitely improved it seems. He just needs the blood to do it.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
His skill has definitely improved it seems. He just needs the blood to do it.

His skill may be improved, but assuming nobody is having a bad day, it is that skill increase, itself, that even puts him in contention; without it, he is way outclassed.

It takes some power and skill to wipe the earth clean of his existence. Xavier hasn't done anything like that.

Originally posted by Glorificus
Xavier and Emma.

Does Max Lord even have any telepathic defenses? What's stopping Emma from just psi-bolting him?

A possible-timeline Max from Booster Gold went mental toe-to-toe with Martian Manhunter, and main Max was able to mind-wipe every telepath (and everyone else) on Earth simultaneously.


We are seriously talking "Max makes them forget he's there when he's standing right there," level stuff.

It's time to give chuck his due. He'd rape either one of them, but specially maxwell. MB is a tough nut to crack, but it'll soon turn into 2 vs 1 and they win.

Originally posted by 753
It's time to give chuck his due. He'd rape either one of them, but specially maxwell. MB is a tough nut to crack, but it'll soon turn into 2 vs 1 and they win.

Again, Lord mindwiped the *entire* planet, including all the telepaths. At full power/blood flowing, he mindwiped Martian Manhunter, Miss Martian, Hector Hammond, Grodd, and whoever else you care to mention at the same time.


At his normal levels I'd agree the Marvel pair wins, but Maxwell can push his power up to absurd levels if he doesn't mind bleeding massively.

Originally posted by Q99
A possible-timeline Max from Booster Gold went mental toe-to-toe with Martian Manhunter, and main Max was able to mind-wipe every telepath (and everyone else) on Earth simultaneously.


We are seriously talking "Max makes them forget he's there when he's standing right there," level stuff.

Is the "possible-timeline" Max the Max in this fight? Which Max is it specifically?

Also, I still don't see any psychic defense feats. Mind controlling other people who weren't defending their minds against him is offensive output, not defensive. And someone like Emma has psychic defense up the wazoo. She's shrugged off Karma trying her hardest to mind control her and casually psi-bolted her.
http://img291.imageshack.us/i/manifestdestiny01zonemerl7.jpg/
What's stopping her from doing the same to Max?

She's defended herself against 7 of the most powerful Skrull Telepaths who were all connected to Cerebro-like amping devices, and systematically took all of them down.

She's also defended entire teams against Mr. Sinister, Exodus, and Lady mastermind.

She's also protected Scott from a Phoenix fragment.

What feats of Max show that he can take a psi bolt or resist mind control from Emma?

It's the Max, that's why Cap is trying to stop him before it's too late. And MM has psychic defenses too. He doesn't have to be fighting someone to know someone is hacking into his mind.

Originally posted by Glorificus
Is the "possible-timeline" Max the Max in this fight? Which Max is it specifically?

Booster went back and saved Ted Kord, Max never got found out, took over the world, Booster and Ted got the gang together (including J'onn) to take him down, J'onn goes mind-to-mind with him (Max at 'bad nosebleed' level) and they stalemate.


So it's this Max if things had gone slightly differently. Up to you whether you'd count that or not.





Manchester?

Maxwell's shown insane psychic offense, effectively unstoppable. If Chester can hold Emma and X off for, like, three seconds, then Lord can do a psychic attack capable of overwhelming every psychic, empath, telepathy resistant individual, etc..

The only problem is he loses, like, 4 gallons of blood when he does it.




If his defense is at all like his offense at full blood usage, then he should be fine (minus the bloodloss...).

Even if it's not, all he needs is enough time to launch a psychic attack, because I don't think anyone's ever shown psychic defense against the scale of psychic attack he did there.

Whole lotta 'ifs' in that Maxwell Lord argument.

Originally posted by Konton
Whole lotta 'ifs' in that Maxwell Lord argument.

Exactly.

"IF" Maxwell has defenses, then I'd like to see them. Since we go by FEATS here right? I'd like to know what mind control/psi blasts/illusions he's casually shrugged off, because Emma has done that plenty of times.

Also, "IF" Maxwell Lord has enough time, then yeah, sure he might be able to reach full throttle and pull off another super mind wipe.

But what takes more time? Max completely overwhelming the consciousness of someone with ESTABLISHED strong psychic resistances like Emma Frost with Mind Control, or Emma simply Psi Bolting someone with no ESTABLISHED psychic defenses?

And just a couple of quick notes: Emma does have a history of bypassing people's defenses, if someone should find scans proving Maxwell has any. She's easily bypassed the Sentinel's robotic shielding with sheer skill and finesse and fine tuning her psychic brainwaves.

She's also overwhelmed Monet (who has resisted her mental probes) with by channeling a bolt of psychic lighting using the ambient psionic energy around her and simply overwhelming her with the blast. In a battle with a bunch of psychics around, there's plenty for her to use. A quick psi bolt, and Maxwell will be out.

And let's not forget Xavier's around too. He just needs to think "Astral plane", and the battle's going to go downhill for Manchester Black, who I don't believe has any Astral projecting or battling feats.

I don't think Emma's psi defenses are greater than MM.

chuck/emma

Originally posted by Prep-Man
It takes some power and skill to wipe the earth clean of his existence. Xavier hasn't done anything like that.

Nope hes just redirected the entirety of the Skrull empire's emotions and went up against Galactus.
lol
Not like Max is outmatched or anything

Not saying Xavier is wuss, but those feats are different. If Max can completely wipe Jonzz mind (who has strong psychic defenses and mentally got into the head of Mageddon), plus the whole entire earth a the same time, I think that's more power and skill right there.

I was never impressed with J'onn, but maybe that's because I read a lot of Zatanna and she never seems to have a problem trumping him with her own pseudo-telepathy.

people are forgetting black is a powerful telepath on top of his insane teke

Originally posted by Konton
Whole lotta 'ifs' in that Maxwell Lord argument.


That's just what angle you're asking from. "Can Xavier and Emma win? If they can blow past Manchester in a few seconds, if Lord doesn't have psychic defense, and if they can take a planetary-scale mindwipe, then they can win"

Those are some pretty huge ifs.





No "might," he would be able to do so, having demonstrated the capacity.

And it shouldn't take particularly longer than their telepathic attacks.




And you're forgetting Chester, one of DC's strongest telepaths.

How often do telepaths have no defenses in comparison to their offense either? That's a fairly big assumption considering we have no evidence he's telepathically defenseless.

Once Max was hooked up to an ample supply of blood, he was able to immediately unleash his worldwide psi-attack. That said, I believe he could certainly pose a threat to Xavier and/or Emma if he did the same type of thing immediately after the battle started.

Charles Xavier and Emma Frost.

Charles's attack on the Znox was felt on the otherside of the Universe by the Shi'ar telepaths. That is how D'Ken knew Lilandra was heading towards Earth and that is why he sent his Agent Eric the Red to murder Professor X. Charles has also contacted the Stranger unaided who was off on other planets. Current Xavier is stated to be stronger then he's ever been.

Emma Frost just recently communicated with Scott from somewhere in space unaided. She also had her mind completely severed from her body and in turn broke the global Skrull blockade inhibiting telepathy (7 Skrulls telepaths each with their own Cerebra and each has been trained to fight the X-telepaths).

So they don't lack power. On top of that they both fight very, very durrrty.

They don't lack power, but they don't have unlimited-blood Lord level power.

Originally posted by Q99
They don't lack power, but they don't have unlimited-blood Lord level power.

Maxwell Lord screwed over a bunch of telepaths who weren't suspecting attack. Shadow King did even better in Psi-War, his trap that Psylocke triggered cascaded across the universe and knocked out all psi-related talents.

They have more varied feats too and both have faced the Phoenix (Unlimited Psionic Nexus) and lived. Emma Frost managed to blindside the Phoenix and escape in their first encounter. Xavier managed to actually take it down with Jeans help.

Also skill trumps power in the Marvel Telepathic Universe. You're talking about one of the most machiavellian woman in the MU and a self-proclaimed saint who is actually a bastard when it comes to abusing his powers. I see them both deploying some nasty tactics here.

Manchester is skilled, too. Plus he has more than just TP.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Manchester is skilled, too. Plus he has more than just TP.

Black is skilled, but I don't see Maxwell Lord on the same level of skill as the other 3.

As for his TK, since TP is deployed faster the fight will most likely end up on the Astral Plane so their extra powers will be useless.

http://img141.imageshack.us/i/scan12ff6.jpg/

If not there's always this:

http://img128.imageshack.us/f/page0304zb4ep1.jpg/

Don't forget he didn't just overwhelm every Psi, but countless telepathy-resistant people. Dr. Fate? Green Lanterns? Wonder Woman? All hard to affect at all, all hit.



Skill matters, but power also matters a lot. If there's enough of a gap between telepaths mental barriers can be overwhelmed.

Does Emma have many high-end telepathy feats? I know she regards herself as an "omega level telepath" but I just don't see it.

Originally posted by The Pict
Does Emma have many high-end telepathy feats? I know she regards herself as an "omega level telepath" but I just don't see it.

Emma is an established high end telepath and has a hell of a lot of high end telepathic feats. Especially in the last decade or so. As for the Omega Level thing, Xavier called her one too.

Originally posted by Q99
Don't forget he didn't just overwhelm every Psi, but countless telepathy-resistant people. Dr. Fate? Green Lanterns? Wonder Woman? All hard to affect at all, all hit.

Like I said Shadow King trap echoed across the universe, he shut down all telepathy/psi-talents. Mentallo hooked up to a machine did something similar, he got everyone but Iron Man. Take that as you will, for the sake of the plot Lord overwelmed the likes of TP immune beings. Same goes for Mastermind using the Sentry's powers to make the world forget.

It's a plot peeve, I'm sure there are countless feats from Dr. Fate, WW and GL's to counter being ambushed by TP. In fact WW is supposed to outright immune isn't she?

Emma's broadcasted her mutant message across the globe unaided and that even got through to TP resistant/immune mutants. Take it as you will.

Heck Marvel got smarter now, they used a magical virus to make everyone forget SpiderMans identity.



Rachel Grey is regarded as a Child of the Phoenix under Claremonts pen. She has unlimited reserves of TK and TP and got stomped by Emma because of her lack of skill.

Anyway does Lord have tech to regulate his body temp in this fight? Cause an unlimited blood supply is only going to get him so far.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Emma is an established high end telepath and has a hell of a lot of high end telepathic feats. Especially in the last decade or so. As for the Omega Level thing, Xavier called her one too.



Like I said Shadow King trap echoed across the universe, he shut down all telepathy/psi-talents. Mentallo hooked up to a machine did something similar, he got everyone but Iron Man. Take that as you will, for the sake of the plot Lord overwelmed the likes of TP immune beings. Same goes for Mastermind using the Sentry's powers to make the world forget.

It's a plot peeve, I'm sure there are countless feats from Dr. Fate, WW and GL's to counter being ambushed by TP. In fact WW is supposed to outright immune isn't she?

Emma's broadcasted her mutant message across the globe unaided and that even got through to TP resistant/immune mutants. Take it as you will.

Heck Marvel got smarter now, they used a magical virus to make everyone forget SpiderMans identity.



Rachel Grey is regarded as a Child of the Phoenix under Claremonts pen. She has unlimited reserves of TK and TP and got stomped by Emma because of her lack of skill.

Anyway does Lord have tech to regulate his body temp in this fight? Cause an unlimited blood supply is only going to get him so far.

Yes, but it takes skill to by pass Dr. Fate's/MM psychic defenses. They don't need confrontation to know someone is messing with their minds. They can even detect beings from other dimensions screwing with their minds. Yet, Max did it with his OWN power. No cerebro or anything.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak


If not there's always this:

http://img128.imageshack.us/f/page0304zb4ep1.jpg/ so emma getting punked by quentin helps her case how?

Originally posted by 753
so emma getting punked by quentin helps her case how?

Read the speech bubbles. Blocking TK with telepathy which won't happen cause the fight will end up on the astral plane. Besides. Also using one feat to say Maxwell Lord is as skilled as the other three is ludacris. Especially when it doesn't correlate with his other feats, he took years to get Superman under his thrawl. Clearly the power boost helped him ambush Fate and MM. He didn't receive an upgrade in skill when he was brought back.

max didnt have as much blood back then either and wew know his future self can defeat mm. so its not out of the realm that he cant beat xavier. its not a stomp for either team.

based on max showings in generation lost, I'm siding with him

Originally posted by Prep-Man
max didnt have as much blood back then either and wew know his future self can defeat mm. so its not out of the realm that he cant beat xavier. its not a stomp for either team.

It's a poor showing for those who should be immune/resistant on DC Earth. Much like with mentallo. Its plot induced. Unless your trying to say this version of max could take down both mm and fate.

And alternate futures aren't usuable.

If it's tp related, sure. Like Q said, a future Max took down MM in a telepathic battle.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It's a poor showing for those who should be immune/resistant on DC Earth. Much like with mentallo. Its plot induced. Unless your trying to say this version of max could take down both mm and fate.


I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I'm saying.

Unlimited blood max is like Sundipped Superman or Odin Power Thor. It blows the normal version away, and even normal Max can overcome GLs face to face.