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This fight has been on my mind for a while now.
Do grandpas beat a cyborg and a kid?
Incarnations as specified in the thread topic.
Setting: Geonosis arena.
1) Sabers
2) Force
3) All-out
Which team emerges victorious?

Grandpa's chances of winning are larger than the cyborg and kid's.

I think Marek gets cut up with sabers by either opponent. If Dooku is stupid enough to challenge Marek with the force first, it might not get that far... But... Marek loses the following:

1. Saber Battle with Sidious
2. Saber Battle with Dooku
3. Force Battle with Sidious.

He wins.

1. Force Battle with Dooku.


For Vader:

He loses:

1. Saber Battle with Sidious
2. Saber Batltle with Dooku
3. Force battle with sidious.

He wins:

1. Force Battle with Dooku.


So Dooku would have to really blow this fight to give the other team a chance.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Grandpa's chances of winning are larger than the cyborg and kid's.
*Grandpas'

Grandpas' *
Ah, damnit. Too late.

I'm pretty sure "kid's" is wrong too.

No, singular possessive.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No, singular possessive.

Well, shut up.

I don't know why Dooku is getting such a bad buzz.

His superior control might be enough to turn the battle to his advantage. Dooku actually stressed but did not break every single blood vessel in Ventress's body. Marek just hits things until they stop moving.

Advantage: Dooku.

'Every' blood vessel? I wasn't aware that was the case.

I may be mistaken as I do not have that source. However, doing so for even a single capillary (which are mentioned specifically, I believe) is impressive on its own.


Someone got the quote? I think it is Dark Rendezvous.

IIRC, Ventress just shows extreme pain and total submission and Dooku mentions how he somethings about how the blood vessels stretch. It's never explained exactly what he's doing or the extent of his efforts that I recall though.

All the same, it remains an impressive fine-tuned application of the Force, and telekinesis in particular.

I agree. It's one of the most skillful usages of the Force we've seen in the mythos.

I'm not sure if it is that impressive to be honest. I think it's more to do with the fact that Force Users are rarely shown to attempt to use the Force in a precise manner, because for what few showings of precision there are, it's actually pretty low down in the hierarchy. Anakin, Jacen, and Jaina Solo, when they were children and not even well trained, all demonstrate the ability to manipulate air molecules, to the point that they were able to rub them together to create light. Vergere was able to perform molecular scale manipulations to rid herself of disease. And of course, Bane displays a level of precision on the sub-atomic level, and its implied that the simple act of creating a holocron requires a high level of precision as well. I'm not sure we can really call Dooku's display especially impressive.

1. Scions of the Skywalker bloodline are able to apply the Force to a useful purpose on a very fine level. This level of application, while operating on a very low level of organization, does not necessarily have to be difficult. Although you've described it in terms of the molecules' actions, it is possible that the actual application of force (lowercase 'f') takes place on a much higher scale. Instead of manipulating individual molecules, exciting the gas in general would effect a similar effect.

2. I'm not all that familiar with Veregre. In fact, I only remember her from Traitor, and she isn't featured all that heavily in that work. However, this certainly does sound impressive-- certainly along the lines of Dooku's feat in terms of breadth of concentration (molecular biology involves a large number of interactions at once).

3. Bane is Bane. (Also, scientifically, location on the sub-atomic level is not germane to reality and has no meaning. Bane's "manipulations" are directed at particles that, in a very real sense, do not exist. Simply put, the description of this event is as impressive as the statistics behind repulorlift technology: ultimately meaningless technobabble.)











Nebaris, Dooku's display is not precise because it takes place on a small scale. Mere scale is not the deciding factor. Rather, a feat is impressively precise when error in any direction ultimately dooms the effort. Thus, from the textual description, Bane's feat is very impressive because the margin of error is so slim. Veregre's, depending on the description of the feat, may have been similarly impressive. (Depending on what exactly the book says that she manipulated.) The Skywalkers' feat is not impressive or an indication of skill because they could have poured too much energy into the endeavor, or too little, and still met with some success.

Dooku's applied TK is impressive, to me, because if he had pushed to hard he would have utterly ruined Ventress. Her body would be utterly annihilated. The effective range of force he could apply was so small, and the consequences of a mistake were so great, that success seems quite impressive indeed.

While I agree that this is impressive we have to remember that these are the grandkiddies of the Living Force itself and heirs to the Skywalker line. And Skywalkers do shit like this by accident all the goddamn time.



I doubt it, it seems like theres actually a way to manufacture them as Bastila's father had one. Unless he bought one from the Jedi or the Sith (unlikely) or found one himself (on Tatooine? Maybe. O.o), this indicates to me that theres a way for the public to get their hands on and produce them. Though he might have traded the jedi Bastila for one. She is pretty damn whiney. mmm

Dooku's mastery of the force is good,but when it comes to a fight? I'll take the guy who pounds people until they stop moving over the guy that can do itty bitty precise things.

Zampano:

1. I'm currently downloading Crystal Star so I'll be able to post the passage in a short while but I'm pretty sure it was a direct manipulation of the molecules, and while they are indeed Skywalkers, they were still children with limited training at the time, they performed it in a controlled manner suggesting it wasn't an out of ordinary, greater than usual exhaustion of their full potential, and that it was a demonstration of precision would also rely on a significant level of control (as well as power), something not derived from their strength in the Force. Interestingly enough though, now that I'm looking at the passage from Dark Rendezvous again I'm pretty sure what you're suggesting could actually be said for Dooku in this scenario:

"Mantises squirmed and hunted in the vision over his desk. He snapped off the holocron and consulted a monitor.

"Ah. Our latest batch of guests is arriving. Loyal beings and true, for the Trade Federation cause and a ten percent profit. Go meet them at the door. You always make such an impression on visitors."

"Don't patronize me," Asajj said coldly.

Dooku looked around. "Or what?"

Her face went pale. Dooku lifted that one finger, and this time he tapped it in the air, as if pushing a needle into a pincushion. Ventress crumpled to her knees. Her voice came out clotted with pain.

"Please," she said. "Don't."

"It doesn't feel very good, does it? Like sharp stones in your throat and chest."

Dooku made another little patting motion, and Ventress slammed to the tile floor.

"It's the blood vessels I hate," Dooku said. "The way they stretch inside, like balloons about to pop."

"P-p-p-please..."

"But worse than anything is the memories," he said, more softly still. "They crowd around, like flies on meat. Every despicable thing, every petty vice, every little act of spite."

A cruel, strange quiet stretched out as Ventress panted on the stone floor. Rain ticked against the window glass, and the Count's soft voice went dark and far away.

"All the things you should have stopped, but didn't, and nothing will ever be right again. And the things you've done," he whispered. "By the pitiless stars, the things you've done..."

The comm on Dooku's desk beeped. He shook his head, like a man waking from a dream.

"The Troxan delegation is at the door."

Ventress crawled to her feet. Her face was bruised and her cheeks were wet with tears. Both pretended not to notice.

"Tell them I'll be right down," Count Dooku said."

Nothing suggests that it was a direct manipulation of her blood vessels or that it was anywhere near as precisely performed as you've described.

2. Even if Dooku did directly effect her blood vessels or not Vergere's display would still be significantly more impressive. The difference in scale is pretty huge.

3. Not that I'm the most knowledgable individual on the subject but do sub-atomic particles not exist in the real world? This seems to suggest as much: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subatomic_particle. And even if they didn't, they would exist within the Star Wars Universe regardless, and the scale would still operate within the confines of an atom.



I'm not sure we disagree on this matter. What you're saying is that the impressive nature of these displays of precision relies on their ability to distinguish objects of a certain scale from anything around it? Well that's essentially what I'm saying as well; just to clarify, I'm saying that the scale is of merit when the Force is applied directly onto it; it's what Bane did when he created his holocron, it's what Vergere did, and it's also what the Solo children did. They didn't merely indirectly cause an effect on such a scale, it was applied exactly on that scale.

And as the passage shows Dooku can't really be said to have done anything nearly as precise as what you're saying.

Nphthys:

I'll post the passage when it downloads (which could take a while, I couldn't select the individual book from the torrent I'm using so I have to download like a thousand books before I get to access it... ) but it was done in a compeltely controlled manner from what I remember, and not accidentally.

Perhaps but I believe there are multiple accounts of Jedi/Sith making them through use of the Force. And there is indeed the possibility you mention.

You're willingly downloading Crystal Star?

Eww...

All I can recall is Bane's. And even then iirc he was just making sure it was perfect. I don't recall it actually saying he constructed the entire thing with the Force.

Well maybe not but the sub-atomic alterations themselves were.

No. I believe that the distance within which these events takes place is utterly irrelevant. Thus, Starkiller's manipulation of the falling Star Destroyer could be called extraordinarily skillful if he had guided it more precisely. Skill is the ability with which you control your power. Forcing a trillion-ton starship to the ground requires a great deal of power. Placing it down exactly where you want it requires skill.

Bane's feat is impressive because he succeeded within a very small margin of error. What you've said of the children suggests that there was no consequence to overzealous application of power. In Bane's case, there certainly was.

Hopefully, with this more fully explained definition of skill as "discretionary application of power" you will be able to see that this is the most natural categorical division of skill and power.

Anakin's Force scream was powerful. He brought down a building. Darth Bane's Force wave in PoD was powerful. He would have "liquidized" Kas'im the Magnificent. Darth Sidious's Force lightning was powerful. It reduced a large amount of Sith Wyrm to ash. These are not indications of exceptional skill--despite their flashiness-- except insofar as channeling the Force in large quantities requires skill.

Bane's holocron required skill. If any aspect of his manipulations was off, even by the smallest amount, his attempt would have failed. This happened several times. I would argue that Dooku's technique also required skill to ensure that he did not accidentally kill or overwhelm Ventress. The line "the way stretch inside, like balloons about to pop" does not really allow for a purely mental experience. Humans do not have nerves inside their blood vessels, and to have sensations from that part of the body is a novel experience, to say the least. Thus, the technique requires actual force to be applied, as though physically inflaming the blood vessels involved in causing a migraine.

What I am impressed with is the way that incredibly fragile membranes like those in blood vessels are stretched but not broken. It is very easy to bruise. Think about how easily the capillaries around eyes are broken. To stress but not overwhelm that substance requires great control, and is what has impressed me.

This is as close to an eloquent explanation as I'll be able to give you without synthesizing the entirety of LessWrong's Quantum Physics Sequence.

I think you're looking at it from a slightly different angle then I am. That there is tiny margin of error is impressive, but that is because the small MoE provides a necessity for a certain scale to be directly affected, i.e. the individual cannot afford to operate outside of the given scale, so he has to directly meet that exact scale. It's as impressive, but it's not the "end" of what we're discussing. The "end" would be directly operating on that scale. That there may have been a significantly large MoE for the Solo children is inconsequential as they still directly operated on the given scale regardless. A minimal MoE can require a certain scale to be directly impacted, but a minimal MoE isn't in itself required for a certain scale to be directly impacted.

As Yoda likes to say, "size matters not." Any agent is capable of operating on any scale. The question is whether or not they will be capable of restraining (or extending) their abilities to be effective in that range. It wouldn't be difficult to move an electron, but moving it where you want it would be.

This can be seen in Luke's method of learning the weather control technique in one of the earlier FotJ books. He just drifted through his catalog of mindsets. Each mindset operated in a different "scale" or "realm." The next step was allocating the proper amount (and direction) of power into the technique. That is what I mean by skill.

I still think we're talking about the same thing. Operating directly on a given scale corresponds with the ability to distinguish objects of that scale from everything around it, to restrain their abilities to that scale etc. and if one were able to target the electron directly in the first place, moving it in a controlled fashion wouldn't require any real greater level of control.

Can I still do anything? she wondered. Anything at all?
She imagined the molecules of air all around her. She imagined one molecule. She imagined it moving,
faster and faster. She felt the molecule respond.
Hethrir's power did not react. She knew it was around her, she could feel its attention off in the distance.
But it did not notice the tiny motion she created.
She added another molecule, another, doubling and redoubling the number she affected. Soon a small
handful of air vibrated with her energy.
Its warmth took the chill from her cell.
The swirl of air glowed red, then yellow, spreading light into the corners of Jaina's cell.
Jaina laughed with relief and joy.

The Crystal Star, Page 92

So as can be seen she targets the air molecule directly to begin with.

Can't all Jedi do that though? I mean, a Force Push is really just a concussive burst of pressurised air.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Can't all Jedi do that though? I mean, a Force Push is really just a concussive burst of pressurised air.

I'm not entirely sure, if a force push is essentially that.
Remember, Jedi can use force in the vacuum of space, so I see no reason why a force push should be limited to a burst of air. Rather it is a force directly applied to push an opponent, just as force grip is a force applied to hold sth/sb.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Can't all Jedi do that though? I mean, a Force Push is really just a concussive burst of pressurised air.

It would still be a collective amount of air molecules of a pretty ordinary scale they would be directly affecting, and not each individual molecule.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Can't all Jedi do that though? I mean, a Force Push is really just a concussive burst of pressurised air. You sure? I also thought it was a wave or burst Force energy itself. In the NJO series, Tahiri used the Force to compress air to kill a Vong. I assume there's similar mechanics at play.

'Force Push was the ability to create a telekinetic impulse via the Force, launching a concussive burst of pressurized air-not unlike the blast of an archaic 'pipe bomb'- that would impact a target with enough force to knock it over, launch it into the air, or even (particularly in the case of fragile materials such as ceramics) shatter it into pieces. The greater the user's telekinetic aptitude, the larger the pressure differential, and thus the stronger the effect and the heavier the target. With practice, a skilled Force user could increase the range and arc of the blast without lowering the average kinetic energy, creating a blanketed wave instead of a focused impulse. Truly gifted practitioners could generate a concussive blast that would radiate from them for dozens of meters in all directions, detonating with the force of a conventional explosive.'-Wookiepedia

So... it's wind?

Luke: Do the windy thing

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/02982.gif

Luke suddenly does the windy thing.

Yeah, its wind. Gosh, call yourselves Star Wars experts? You don't even know what a Force Push is.

Using telekinesis to move the wind to move the object...

I detect an unnecessary middleman in this transaction.

I guess if you just pushed or pulled them around it wouldn't really do much, whereas a Force push is an actual physical force hitting the target. *shrugs*

Also:

z0RuR3FREFw

4.00 onwards. You can't argue with results. edit: Actually, watching that its pretty obvious thats its wind. How did we miss that?

See I always thought (part in thanks to the video-games' animations), that a Force Push was a concentrated or semi-concentrated "ball" of Force energy that moved everything in it's path, the air included. Hence the "wind" effect.

Actually DE: Wookie is NOT a source, and you know this.

Secondly: Force push wouldn't work in space if it was just the air being moved.

A force push isn't a gust of air. If it was then you would see more than just the person get pushed by it.

I think there is a version of it that might be compressed air. There's a scene in the old Clone Wars cartoon where Greivous "dodges" a force push, and the spot that he was standing in a moment before he moves gets "hit" by it and depresses.

I always thought that was cool and at the same time retarded. How do you outrun the force?

well tk and that kind of force push are probably different.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
See I always thought (part in thanks to the video-games' animations), that a Force Push was a concentrated or semi-concentrated "ball" of Force energy that moved everything in it's path, the air included. Hence the "wind" effect.

I would go with that. Jedi use energy blast that also pushes the air in its way, not that they use air itself to push sth.

Originally posted by truejedi
Actually DE: Wookie is NOT a source, and you know this.

Secondly: Force push wouldn't work in space if it was just the air being moved.

I'm inclined to take their word above yours personally. They list their sources at the bottom.

When has anyone used a Force push in space?

StarWars.com does not appear to have a databank section on The Force.





facepalm2

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm inclined to take their word above yours personally. They list their sources at the bottom.

When has anyone used a Force push in space?

Then you can list the source here... ?

Force push in space? The Jedi and their shadow-bombs? Pushing them into the enemy ships?

Originally posted by Nephthys
When has anyone used a Force push in space?

Plo Koon did in one of the episodes of CW, the one when clones and Koon escaped in a lifepod, and are attacked by a squad of droids.

So are you saying that all of those sources say "A force push moving the air to hit an opponent?"

Found it. Episode "Rising Malevolence."
There is a nice force push in a vacuum of space.

See 5:05 and 6:10

http://fliiby.com/file/359287/g8h4rzmw67.html


Clearly force push is not a pressurized air, rather an energy blast.

well done axel. and in T-Canon too. : )

Yep, no way around it

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Found it. Episode "Rising Malevolence."
There is a nice force push in a vacuum of space.

See 5:05 and 6:10

http://fliiby.com/file/359287/g8h4rzmw67.html


Clearly force push is not a pressurized air, rather an energy blast.

Who says he didn't redirect some of his "bodily functions".

There is no indication that that was a Force push, it is just as likely Koon pulled the droid backwards or manipulated the droid directly.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Who says he didn't redirect some of his "bodily functions".



Or simply manipulated the structure of the universe, so that there was an illusion that the droid is pushed, seems just as likely


Originally posted by Nephthys
There is no indication that that was a Force push, it is just as likely Koon pulled the droid backwards or manipulated the droid directly.

There goes Occam's razor, eh?

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Or simply manipulated the structure of the universe, so that there was an illusion that the droid is pushed, seems just as likely


That's possible indeed. Especially considering it's the PLO KOON.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
That's possible indeed. Especially considering it's the PLO KOON.












I would like the two sides of this argument to try to explain their position without using the phrase "force push." Explain exactly what you expect to happen, and then we'll be able to tell if you are arguing semantics (that is, arguing about what should qualify as a "Force Push" or if there is an actual difference in expected result.

nah

Yeah f*ck that. Wookieepedia can go screw itself. Any volunteers to go edit that page?

Er, considering we know all of jack shit about what we're talking about that sounds like a bad idea. How about someone reads up on Force Push and tells us the answer? Then we can edit it.

And as I said: Wookiepedia >>>>> you clowns.

We clowns>>>>>You.


Regardless, "compressed ball of air" is just so retarded. They can use Force energy to grab any object, conjure up electricity, retain a soul, and pierce the space-time continuum... but to push someone they have to have an atmosphere?

Irrelevent. I'm not the one on trial here.

I'm really struggling to see why someone would put that info/description on Wookie without having some reason to. It's far too random just to throw it in there for no reason.

And I don't think its as stupid as chucking around balls of force energy.

Force push isn't compressed air. Like, you don't even need a source to tell you that, that's just common sense.

'Force Push was the ability to create a telekinetic impulse via the Force, launching a concussive burst of pressurized air-not unlike the blast of an archaic 'pipe bomb'-that would impact a target with enough force to knock it over, launch it into the air, or even (particularly in the case of fragile materials such as ceramics) shatter it into pieces. The greater the user's telekinetic aptitude, the larger the pressure differential, and thus the stronger the effect and the heavier the target. With practice, a skilled Force user could increase the range and arc of the blast without lowering the average kinetic energy, creating a blanketed wave instead of a focused impulse. Truly gifted practitioners could generate a concussive blast that would radiate from them for dozens of meters in all directions, detonating with the force of a conventional explosive.

This power was an effective tool for keeping enemies at a distance. A well-aimed push could have sent the target crashing into a nearby wall or other obstruction, resulting in bludgeoning damage and possible disorientation or blackout. A force push could also cause direct damage, by striking an enemy in the form of a telekinetic fist which had the power of a pile driver. This could injure or even kill enemies through the sheer power of the kinetic blast alone, rather than the damage caused by the collision of the target with a larger obstruction. Particularly ruthless Force users would use a well-timed Force push to send their enemies tumbling off penthouse balconies or into deep chasms. Aditionally, Force users who were exceptionally skilled could even use Force Push to kill their opponents, as evidenced by Darth Vader's use of Force push on multiple occasions during the Second Battle of Kashyyyk to kill Wookiee warriors. Beyond offense, this power had many utilitarian applications, such as activating a control panel that would ordinarily have been out of reach, or pulverizing heavy debris and other obstructions too large to remove without specialized equipment.

A trained Force user could resist Force Push, presumably by generating an opposing pressure surge whose wavefront canceled out their opponent's attack. The opponent usually responded by ramping up the pressure to compensate for the increased resistance. From here it became a telekinetic arm-wrestling match, with a seemingly motionless facade belying each combatant's desperate struggle to overpower the other. As events progressed, a pocket of air equidistant from the opponents would have been slowly compacted, until the pressure reached sufficient strength to bend duranium like kshyy vines. As the pressure increased, the pocket would begin to rapidly destabilize, until even the smallest atmospheric disturbance would cause it to rupture. When the pressure reached a critical threshold, the bubble would burst, generating a powerful shockwave. A textdoc example was provided by Darth Vader and Obi-Wan Kenobi when their duel progressed into the control room of the mining platform on Mustafar. The two had simultaneously used the ability while resisting each other's at the same time. Like magnets of the same pole, the combined force eventually hurled them violently to opposite sides of the room.

Applications of telekinesis deriving from uses of Force Push:

Force Whilwind:
A more advanced form of Force Push, and a feeble version of Force Wave. The Jedi would alter the air currents around an opponent, turning it into a maelstrom. This swirling force would lift an opponent into the air, spin them around, and completely immobilize them. This allowed the Jedi to attack without resistance. One of the most notable uses of this ability was from Jacen Solo when confronting Tsavong Lah on Duro. Jedi Master Streen and Teneniel Djo demonstrated a natural talent for this ability, as well as Plo Koon, who further modified it with his knowledge. Darth Malak used this ability during his confrontation with Revan on the Leviathan. The former Dark Lord of the Sith, as well as the Ho'Din Jedi Master Plett may also have known how to use it. This ability was known to the Witches of Dathomir as the Spell of Storm. The Jedi Exile and her companions may also have used this force power during her quest to save the galaxy. '


I am merely a messenger. The text makes too much sense to just write it off as the ravings of a mad wiki editor.

I get whirlwind using the air, but Force Push? I can see it being entirely possible, but necessary? Ridiculous.

Indeed ridiculous.
And what Wookie says seems to be contradicted by CW series. Plo Koon using force push in vacuum of space.
Nah, it cannot be only due to air pressure.

It only contradicts your interpretation of the events in the CW series.

Also, I havn't said the word necessary at all. Nor willl I.

No DE, if you can't give a source, your wookie is a waste of time. I thought you had a source. Sounds like you just copied wookie... Which has been wrong in the past. What makes GOOD SENSE to you, makes NO SENSE to the rest of us.

So for you to say that it counts because it MAKES SENSE is pretty lame, since no one else shares your view of sense.

If that sentence was followed by an endnote, then we could get someone with the source to follow up on it. And as far as I can tell, that's the only place that describes air as being a necessary component to a Force blast (Force Whirlwind excepted, for obvious reasons). The entry on Force Wave beneath it specifically says it "was essentially a wave of pure Force-energy that pulsed out from the Force user that utilized it, which knocked back anything within the power's blast radius." Emphasis mine.

Either the person who wrote the entry on Force Push was speaking from personal interpretation, or the official descriptions of the technique are just that stupid.

Gentlemen, we've got a discrepancy on our hands. That clip from The Clone Wars is T-canon. That sentence from Wookiee is not cited. What shall be done?

I say we do what must be done, gentelmen. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy.

uncited entry from wookie vs T-canon scene

T-canon FTW.

Ask the wookie guys whats the hippi-hap?

F*ck that, I can't be bothered creating an account there.

You can use my account:

User name: DEiswrong

Password: airisnotneededforforcepush

pretty obvious that Tcanon wins. Tcanon would win over wookie even if wookie is quoting a sourc-book word for word. So unless someone in a movie or cartoon said: "A force push uses the air...." then it would still lose.

Originally posted by Nephthys
There is no indication that that was a Force push, it is just as likely Koon pulled the droid backwards or manipulated the droid directly.

actually, if THAT isn't a force push, then there has never been a single one in the mythos. Name one force push, and I'll claim that "there is no indication that was a force push." Probably just a manipulation.

Face it, you have no argument, and you are grasping at straws now.
"

z0RuR3FREFw

4.00. Clearly thats no Force push.

No more a force push than the example already given you.

Except that it is.

because you say so? Or are you saying because of the accompanying sound effect?

If the latter, you realize that FORCE JUMPING in cutscenes in JA comes with a whooshing sound effect, right? You also realize there is no sound in space, right?

Ok.

Your argument is lame. You are seriously trying to use your opinion as fact, which is terrible, and way beneath you.

That gigantic ball of glowing energy she hurled at him.. is air?

Yeah, not buying that.

BECUASE CLEARLY THERE IS A BURST OF ENERGY, WHETHER 'PURE FORCE ENERGY' OR 'PIPE BOMB-ESQUE WINDY THING.' IT IS NOT A ****ING MANIPULATION OF THE OBJECT DIRECTLY, AS THE CW EXAMPLE COULD JUST AS WELL BE, BUT CLEARLY A GODDAMN FORCE PUSH.

NOT THE SOUND EFFECT. THE VISUAL EFFECT. OF WHICH THERE IS NONE IN THE CW EXAMPLE, LEAVING EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED ENTIRELY UP TO OUR IMAGINATIONS.

YES CLEARLY WOOKIEPEDIA IS MY OPINION. THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING. I'VE JUST MALICIOUSLY ALTERED REALITY SO THATS WHAT WOOKIE SAYS SO I CAN PASS OFF MY OPINION AS FACT. AND I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT IF IT WASNT FOR YOU MEDDLING NERDS.



EDIT: DIDN'T SAY IT WAS. I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT ATTACKING WITH AIR IS THE 'ONLY' WAY TO USE TELEKINESIS-STYLE ATTACKS, NO MATTER WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE PUT INTO MY MOUTHS, BECAUSE CLEARLY THAT IS NOT THE CASE. ALL I'VE MOTHER****ING BEEN DOING IS POINTING OUT WHAT MOTHER****ING WOOKIPEDIA SAYS AND MOTHER****ING TRIED TO MAKE SENSE OF THINGS.

down boy.

Careful, soldier. You're scaring Felicity.

CAPS LOCK!!! CAPS LOCK!!! TETSUO!!! CAPS LOCK!!!

http://www.comics.chickennation.com/wp-content/webcomic/raymondo-person/2009-06-29-vol2-034.gif

Have they? This argument is boing.