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Ultimate Nullifier, White Crown Phoenix, Infinity Gauntlet, Classic Beyonder, Living Tribunal or something else?

from your list i'm gonna say classic beyonder..

^ this.

overall would be the heart of the universe

Originally posted by Warlord

overall would be the heart of the universe

Where's that from? I've never heard of it.

Originally posted by Warlord
^ this.

overall would be the heart of the universe no

Originally posted by Stall_19
Where's that from? I've never heard of it.

Marvel : The End..it's basically the power of TOAA..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
Marvel : The End..it's basically the power of TOAA..

God I feel like a noob but what's TOAA stand for?

Originally posted by Mindset
no

no would be the greatest power in MU

Originally posted by Warlord
no would be the greatest power in MU

Originally posted by Stall_19
God I feel like a noob but what's TOAA stand for?

TOAA is The One Above All, Marvel's version of God.

And I'm pretty sure LT is higher than Classic Beyonder.

Originally posted by KingD19
TOAA is The One Above All, Marvel's version of God.

And I'm pretty sure LT is higher than Classic Beyonder.

1- TOAA and God would be the greatest forces (TOAA is only implied (and it's supposed to be Stan Lee) while God was seen, and he looks like Jack Kirby :P)

2- THOTU (In Marvel: The End, Thanos took controle of this, and basically absorbed Marvel Multiverse.)

3- Classic Beyounder

4- Classic Molecule Man

THOTU is weak sauce

anybody who as actually read that shit know s it was only 1 universe

The Loebforce.

Quanforce.

Feat-wise, the UN is the most powerful thing listed.

thotu
beyonder
IG
molecule man
cosmic Cube


i dont care nor want to hear some over analyzing geek to argue the merit of my choice b/c they it isnt multiversal especially since if you read half the stuff i have you know the comments and opinions are just that.

Originally posted by Galan007
Feat-wise, the UN is the most powerful thing listed. No, it isn't.

Just to be clear toaa - the one above all refers to the being lt responds to... However it is not to be confused with the celestial also named toaa... Who is not even the most powerful...

Also... Aunt may wins.

Originally posted by rotiart
Also... Aunt may wins. Finally a sane person here.

THOTU only took out 1 universe people....

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
THOTU only took out 1 universe people.... He absorbed or at last punked the LT with it.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
THOTU only took out 1 universe people.... Yeah, and the lt is only universal , right ? Chuckles.

that maybe 616 Living Tribunal and not Multi-Living Tribunal

facepalm2

anyways.....

Marvel's most powerful force is the Marvel writer and editor.

Bob Iger (Disney's CEO) is the most powerful force in the Marvel Universe


Disney owns Marvel.

Originally posted by Galan007
Feat-wise, the UN is the most powerful thing listed.

vs wise.. it would the IG

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
that maybe 616 Living Tribunal and not Multi-Living Tribunal

WHAT??? The misinformation spread on this forum is amazing sometimes. There is ONLY ONE LT.. please point me to any scans or narration talking about Multi-Living Tribunal... Just like Multi-Eternity.. just because something is referred to in one story doesn't override all the evidence previously and after. 616 Eternity has narration referring to it as what that one story called multi-eternity. Not just one narration but numerous narration referring to it as such. There is no multi LT.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
WHAT??? The misinformation spread on this forum is amazing sometimes. There is ONLY ONE LT.. please point me to any scans or narration talking about Multi-Living Tribunal... Just like Multi-Eternity.. just because something is referred to in one story doesn't override all the evidence previously and after. 616 Eternity has narration referring to it as what that one story called multi-eternity. Not just one narration but numerous narration referring to it as such. There is no multi LT.

is Disney now a multiverse within marvels omniverse?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yeah, and the lt is only universal , right ? Chuckles.
Called a M-body son.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Called a M-body son. LT doesnt have a mbody

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Called a M-body son.

Originally posted by Nihilist
LT doesnt have a mbody Yes he does.

Originally posted by Nihilist
LT doesnt have a mbody
Since when.

Wasnt the first time we heard of m-bodies in reference to LT?

Originally posted by Mindset
Yes he does. Nah he doesnt

The proof is on the first page of his respect thread, probably the first post.

Please show me the scans of Multi-LT please

Squirrel Girl and the Squirrel Force

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please show me the scans of Multi-LT please No

Originally posted by Mindset
The proof is on the first page of his respect thread, probably the first post. I think you should read what it actually says, about LT and his power, plus the part about Mbodys outside the multiverse.

Originally posted by Nihilist
I think you should read what it actually says, about LT and his power, plus the part about Mbodys outside the multiverse. I think you should read how it says he uses M-bodies, and how you said he didn't.

Originally posted by Mindset
I think you should read how it says he uses M-bodies, and how you said he didn't. He doesnt in the main universe, which is what we are talking about.

Originally posted by Nihilist
He doesnt in the main universe, which is what we are talking about. Based on what?

Originally posted by Mindset
Based on what? What it says in the respect thread.

The respect thread doesn't say anything about him not using M-bodies in the main universe.

someone said there was a Multi-LT please post any scans or narration referring to a multi-LT

Originally posted by Mindset
The respect thread doesn't say anything about him not using M-bodies in the main universe. First page

Multi LT???????

can't m-bodies be just as powerful as the main character and the m-body can be just how they appear. It is my understanding that they can be just as powerful or not as powerful

Originally posted by Nihilist
First page First page said he takes on other shapes with his m-bodies in other multiverses, doesn't say he doesn't use m-bodies in the main universe.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
can't m-bodies be just as powerful as the main character and the m-body can be just how they appear. It is my understanding that they can be just as powerful or not as powerful it depends on how well the concept syncs up with their m-body

Originally posted by stan5677
Multi LT???????
my thoughts exactly. Some people are not informed. Further, M-body's can be just as powerful as the original. So whether it was an m-body or not.. please point to any narration saying it was a weaker than the original m-body

What's truly hilarious to me is the fact that in the comic in question there's no mention of m bod whatsoever and that people could be silly enough to think all writers follow the same rules when creating a story.

I know of a Multi-Eternity

I don't really care if he used an M-body or not, but he does use them, and in the main universe.

Originally posted by Mindset
First page said he takes on other shapes with his m-bodies in other multiverses, doesn't say he doesn't use m-bodies in the main universe. It says every time LT appears it is allways him at full power, and not weaker version like other "mbodys".

LT is omnipresent, so he can be anywhere he wants at any given time.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't really care if he used an M-body or not, but he does use them, and in the main universe. This whole question arose whether it was an mbody or not in the heart story. He didn't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This whole question arose whether it was an mbody or not in the heart story. He didn't.
Prove it wasnt

Originally posted by Nihilist
It says every time LT appears it is allways him at full power, and not weaker version like other "mbodys".

LT is omnipresent, so he can be anywhere he wants at any given time. I don't see that on the first page.

How does that mean he doesn't use m-bodies?

Originally posted by quanchi112
This whole question arose whether it was an mbody or not in the heart story. He didn't. Which doesn't really matter to what I'm trying to tell Nihilist.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Prove it wasnt I don't have to. There was no mention of an m body if you believe it was the proof is on you.

Back on subject Squirrel Girl and the Squirrel Force

Originally posted by stan5677
Back on subject Squirrel Girl and the Squirrel Force that wasnt the subject

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't see that on the first page.

How does that mean he doesn't use m-bodies? Because mbodys are weaker than the true abstract they rep, thats not the case with LT.

The Squirrel Force is the most powerful force in Marvel U.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Because mbodys are weaker than the true abstract they rep Based on?

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
THOTU is weak sauce

anybody who as actually read that shit know s it was only 1 universe



Exactly

Well you also feel like the Phoenix force could beat the HOTU.. so really... you agreeing isn't saying all that much

Originally posted by Nihilist
He doesnt in the main universe, which is what we are talking about.

LT is a conceptual entity.

Therefore he ALWAYS uses Mbodys

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
LT is a conceptual entity.

Therefore he ALWAYS uses Mbodys That's horrific logic.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Well my friend you also feel like the Phoenix force could beat the HOTU.. so really... you agreeing isn't saying all that much

I believe the Phoenix Force has greater feats which it does.

Confirmation of being a multiversal entity- check
The creation force that universes of the multiverse are composed of- check
The power that contained the multiversal destroying power of the m'kraan crystal- check
The power that empowered Jean Grey to manipulate a universe in her palm- check
The power that empowered Jean Grey to casually amputate and destroy 150yrs of timeline- check
The power that connected all realities of the multiverse to Otherworld- check
The power through which Necrom was compressing all realities of the multiverse into a singularity- check


Vs

A power that beat the powers of a single universe and an LT Mbody (LT's mbodys have been thwarted by Korvac and destroyed by Reed Richards inventions therefore its absorption at the hands of the HOTI doesnt say much )

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's horrific logic.

Care to explain?

Because i assure you its quite sound.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I believe the Phoenix Force has greater feats which it does.

Confirmation of being a multiversal entity- check
The creation force that universes of the multiverse are composed of- check
The power that contained the multiversal destroying power of the m'kraan crystal- check
The power that empowered Jean Grey to manipulate a universe in her palm- check
The power that empowered Jean Grey to casually amputate and destroy 150yrs of timeline- check
The power that connected all realities of the multiverse to Otherworld- check
The power through which Necrom was compressing all realities of the multiverse into a singularity- check


Vs

A power that beat the powers of a single universe and an LT Mbody (LT's mbodys have been thwarted by Korvac and destroyed by Reed Richards inventions therefore its absorption at the hands of the HOTI doesnt say much ) What about beating Eternity, Celestials, gods, abstracts with no effort whatsoever. Your feat logic is terrible.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Care to explain?

Because i assure you its quite sound. Certainly. Why does one writer's take on m -body's apply to all writer's. You act like everything always meshes together and there are no problems with continuity. We don't justify a writer's meaning with another writer's meaning in his or her own story.

I mean power levels vary drastically from writer to writer. This is common sense.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Certainly. Why does one writer's take on m -body's apply to all writer's. You act like everything always meshes together and there are no problems with continuity. We don't justify a writer's meaning with another writer's meaning in his or her own story.

I mean power levels vary drastically from writer to writer. This is common sense.
Same reason why marvel is a multiverse
The same reason why when a character dies in 1 series they die in all series (and are usually ressurected later but that is besides the point)
The same reason a characters name stays the same through all titles and issues

Consistency.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What about beating Eternity, Celestials, gods, abstracts with no effort whatsoever. Your feat logic is terrible.

Dear oh dear

The abstracts are merely the embodiments of concepts within the universe. They and all of their power and relevance derives from the universe. Therefore there is no distinction between them and the universe.The abstracts draw power from the universe. They are mere segments of it.

Beating up the abstracts is no comparison to manipulating all the matter that is the universe in the palm of your hand. The difference feat wise is exponential.

Beating up little components of the universe who all draw power from said little universe is no comparison to casually wiping out 150 years of timeline.

Your logic is broke son. Fix up!

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Same reason why marvel is a multiverse
The same reason why when a character dies in 1 series they die in all series (and are usually ressurected later but that is besides the point)
The same reason a characters name stays the same through all titles and issues

Consistency. Wrong. Editors do the best they can to maintain consistency bit there are problems all the way around.

There was no mention of an m body in this storyline so a writer's take on an m body has no place here. If you believe it does it's up to you to prove it.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dear oh dear

The abstracts are merely the embodiments of concepts within the universe. They and all of their power and relevance derives from the universe. Therefore there is no distinction between them and the universe.The abstracts draw power from the universe. They are mere segments of it.

Beating up the abstracts is no comparison to manipulating all the matter that is the universe in the palm of your hand. The difference feat wise is exponential.

Beating up little components of the universe who all draw power from said little universe is no comparison to casually wiping out 150 years of timeline.

Your logic is broke son. Fix up! hat's what she was capable of it was capable of not like she could actively resist Celestials, Galactus, Lt(who is the judge of the multiverse and has never been limited to all the power in one universe--you have no idea do you., King Thor, multiple pantheons, abstracts, heroes like they are insects.

Manipulating a timestream is manipulating a timestream that has nothing to do with say the power to judge the multiverse. I mean I know you can figure this out and anyone can see the error in your logic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Certainly. Why does one writer's take on m -body's apply to all writer's. You act like everything always meshes together and there are no problems with continuity. We don't justify a writer's meaning with another writer's meaning in his or her own story.

I mean power levels vary drastically from writer to writer. This is common sense.

That didnt counter my point in the slightest. All youve done is highlight your complete ignorance as to what a conceptual being is and what the mbodys are there for.

The abstracts are literally concepts who inherently have no physicality. Time, love, hate, death, justice, necessity, vengeance. They are not physical. The abstracts are the core essence of these ABSTRACT( look the damn word up) concepts and the way they have a physical presence within reality to make up for the fact that they lack one themselves is through mbodys.

Every appearance of that golden humanoid figure is an mbody because LT is NOT a physical being. He is a concept given physicality via the fractals of the Dimension of Manifestations.

How are you gonna come up in here attempting to correct people when your basic knowledge is lacking?

KNOW YOUR shit

Originally posted by quanchi112
hat's what she was capable of it was capable of not like she could actively resist Celestials, Galactus, Lt(who is the judge of the multiverse and has never been limited to all the power in one universe--you have no idea do you., King Thor, multiple pantheons, abstracts, heroes like they are insects.

Manipulating a timestream is manipulating a timestream that has nothing to do with say the power to judge the multiverse. I mean I know you can figure this out and anyone can see the error in your logic.

To manipulate in its totality within the palm of her hand so casually the entire matter and energy of 616, Jean Grey must have been wielding energies far greater than those contained within the universe otherwise it would not have been so casually achievable.

With that in mind, your argument is redundant.

Read my point, then look back at yours, repeat that process again and then restrain yourself from posting such nonsense.

Luke Cage and Jessica Jone's new nanny for the baby.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Lt(who is the judge of the multiverse and has never been limited to all the power in one universe--



Precisely why the HOTI feat doesnt really say anything conclusive.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
To manipulate in its totality within the palm of her hand so casually the entire matter and energy of 616, Jean Grey must have been wielding energies far greater than those contained within the universe otherwise it would not have been so casually achievable.

With that in mind, your argument is redundant.

Read my point, then look back at yours, repeat that process again and then restrain yourself from posting such nonsense. That's different than something directly opposing you with greater power. Thanos dominated the judge of the multiverse like nothing. She could only hope to do so as at all let aloe casually.

I don't need to reread anything. You need to drop the act and concede the Phoeniz is nowhere near Eternity level let alone the heart.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Precisely why the HOTI feat doesnt really say anything conclusive.

So because he's far more powerful than universal power and the fact Thanos easily dominated him means nothing. Laughs out loud.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's different than something directly opposing you with greater power. Thanos dominated the judge of the multiverse like nothing. She could only hope to do so as at all let aloe casually.

I don't need to reread anything. You need to drop the act and concede the Phoeniz is nowhere near Eternity level let alone the heart.

What you dont seem to be capable of comprehending is that the abstracts and the sum of all they are, their power, their relevance are all summed up within the universe. They all tap into this single source of power, they all wield a portion of it.

Jean Grey manipulated all of that matter and energy casually in her palm without a hint of strain and within seconds. The difference power wise between what she did and little planet/solar system/ galaxy busting minor battles within the puny little universe she cradled is as aforementioned exponential.

As the Borg would say- Resistance is futile

In a flash of anger Thanos with thoti absorbed an entire universe including lt and eternity...

He got angry and beat everyone... He didn't even try to beat them he just got mad and they were defeated...

Jean purposely exerted thought into manipulating the timestream... And saying that her power must have exceeded that universe because she affected the time stream does not mean she is master of all things In it... The fact that the living tribunal did not step in to oppose her indicates that what she was doing does not affect the greater mutliverse or even universe as a whole... She just wasn't big enough to care about... That is her power set... You wouldn't go to the lady death and be in awe if she casually killed someone...

Originally posted by quanchi112
So because he's far more powerful than universal power and the fact Thanos easily dominated him means nothing. Laughs out loud.

Nope. Because LT himself has no great feats of power. Thats just your opinion that hes FAR more greater than a universal power. Dont confuse his multiversal nature and authority with power

HOTI absorbing an LT Mbody doesnt necessarily say it is beyond LT because who is to say how power was invested in said Mbody

So all in all you have nothing conclusive or particularly of note to any of your arguments

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What you dont seem to be capable of comprehending is that the abstracts and the sum of all they are, their power, their relevance are all summed up within the universe. They all tap into this single source of power, they all wield a portion of it.

Jean Grey manipulated all of that matter and energy casually in her palm without a hint of strain and within seconds. The difference power wise between what she did and little planet/solar system/ galaxy busting minor battles within the puny little universe she cradled is as aforementioned exponential.

As the Borg would say- Resistance is futile No, they don't. You show no understanding of any of these characters involved. Like the Lt taps into the universe's power his power far exceeds it. Eternity is the power of all time and the supreme being of the 616 reality.

Again, she wasn't opposed and it makes sense that she didn't merit any response as she wasn't even a threat to begin with like Thanos. Lt gets involved when something upsets the balance of th emulti she didn't so of course he didn't show up.

Heart>Lt>Eternity>Galactus>Phoenix.

Is Marvel: The End even canon?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Because LT himself has no great feats of power. Thats just your opinion that hes FAR more greater than a universal power. Dont confuse his multiversal nature and authority with power

HOTI absorbing an LT Mbody doesnt necessarily say it is beyond LT because who is to say how power was invested in said Mbody

So all in all you have nothing conclusive or particularly of note to any of your arguments You call into question his power being only universal shows you are completely ignorant which makes sense. you have no grasp of these characters and it shows. It makes sense you have these opinions as you simply don't know any better.

Lt's power is confirmed on panel to be far greater than Eternity's which is the supreme force in the 616 reality.

Originally posted by Stall_19
Is Marvel: The End even canon? Does that matter ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Does that matter ?

I guess not. I just wonder if the Heart exists in the 616 reality. I didn't read the comic so I was just curious.

Originally posted by Stall_19
I guess not. I just wonder if the Heart exists in the 616 reality. I believe it does since it was referenced in his own series.

Originally posted by rotiart
In a flash of anger Thanos with thoti absorbed an entire universe including lt and eternity...

He got angry and beat everyone... He didn't even try to beat them he just got mad and they were defeated...

Jean purposely exerted thought into manipulating the timestream...

Irrelevant. Its top feat is what it is. Out of pity for a universe the other avatars just said to leave to die, Jean casually manipulated all that it was composed of in her palm. Jean is just one of the hosts the Phoenix Force empowers. Jeans feats are greater than the HOTI's, the Phoenix Force is on another level.

Originally posted by rotiart
And saying that her power must have exceeded that universe because she affected the time stream does not mean she is master of all things In it... The fact that the living tribunal did not step in to oppose her indicates that what she was doing does not affect the greater mutliverse or even universe as a whole... She just wasn't big enough to care about... That is her power set... You wouldn't go to the lady death and be in awe if she casually killed someone...

LT wasnt present when the Chaos Wave caused havoc across the omniverse, he wasnt there when the M'kraan crystal threatened the multiverse in the Phoenix Saga and during the AOA.

With that in mind your logic just isnt sound. LTs no show is not an indication of an events insignificance.

Furthermore why would LT intervene in matters that are the jurisdiction of the Phoenix Consciousness anyway?

Lt exists in any and all universes. If you see him (Ie what if issues) it's the same one regardless of the storyline. Whereas Phoenix in any particular storyline can be different versions of the same being... There is only one living tribunal... Whether those are M-bodies or not I'm not 100% sure... But it's only him...

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, they don't. You show no understanding of any of these characters involved. Like the Lt taps into the universe's power his power far exceeds it. Eternity is the power of all time and the supreme being of the 616 reality.

Again, she wasn't opposed and it makes sense that she didn't merit any response as she wasn't even a threat to begin with like Thanos. Lt gets involved when something upsets the balance of th emulti she didn't so of course he didn't show up.

Heart>Lt>Eternity>Galactus>Phoenix.

Awful logic.



The abstracts all tap into the same power source, they all have a portion of the universe powers, if Jean can casually manipulate all of that energy in her palm then the abstracts clearly are not going to mean anything to her. The Phoenix Force itself is on another level.

Furthermore as stated on panel the universe that Eternity and the abstracts derive from is composed of the energies of the Phoenix Force

Please read some comics.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Awful logic.



The abstracts all tap into the same power source, they all have a portion of the universe powers, if Jean can casually manipulate all of that energy in her palm then the abstracts clearly are not going to mean anything to her. The Phoenix Force itself is on another level.

Furthermore as stated on panel the universe that Eternity and the abstracts derive from is composed of the energies of the Phoenix Force

Please read some comics. no, because no one is actively resisting her. She's that irrelevant. Eternity is the master of the 616 reality until the ig surpassed him. This was stated on panel.


That's irrelevant as Eternity is the master of this reality and not Phoenix. Lt is far more powerful than universal anyways. I mean this is just becoming a huge lesson here educating you.

Originally posted by rotiart
Lt exists in any and all universes. If you see him (Ie what if issues) it's the same one regardless of the storyline. Whereas Phoenix in any particular storyline can be different versions of the same being... There is only one living tribunal... Whether those are M-bodies or not I'm not 100% sure... But it's only him...


And yet that says nothing for the level of his power. Rachel Grey is the same. So is the Shadow King.

You confuse role and nature with power.

Power wise LT is challenged and forced to question his might against universal sources such as the IG whose power source by current continuity is the Phoenix Force

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And yet that says nothing for the level of his power. Rachel Grey is the same. So is the Shadow King.

You confuse role and nature with power.

Power wise LT is challenged and forced to question his might against universal sources such as the IG whose power source by current continuity is the Phoenix Force Lt stated he could beat the ig. His power is multiversal. Saying it's only universal shows how behind the times you are.

Let's be clear about something. When Phoenix was stated as being the same energies that ignited the big bang that does not make her creation itself...

Invisible women can harm celestials because ironically her powers consist of Te same as theirs...

Living tribunal steps in when an abstract asks or he feels the multimeter is in danger as a whole...

During the infinity saga he was asked to empower the infinity gauntlet etc..

Korvac threatened to exceed his realm...

The chaos wave had greater influence due to extenuating circumstances and was not the scarlet witches actions alone...

It also did not endanger the greater universe but only changed it... Same as the Jean grey feat... Scarlet witch said no more mutants... Jean said Scott go hook up with emma...

And his not havinge to act during the mkrann can just as easily mean the multiverse was never in peril.... He is omniscient after all... Or a real deal of monkey pis...

Take your pic. Differences of opinions that's what we have. :-)

Oh an with the chaos king storming through reality to destroy creation itself where are either the pf or lt... If he succeeds both are out of a job... :-/

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I believe the Phoenix Force has greater feats which it does.

Confirmation of being a multiversal entity- check
The creation force that universes of the multiverse are composed of- check
The power that contained the multiversal destroying power of the m'kraan crystal- check
The power that empowered Jean Grey to manipulate a universe in her palm- check
The power that empowered Jean Grey to casually amputate and destroy 150yrs of timeline- check
The power that connected all realities of the multiverse to Otherworld- check
The power through which Necrom was compressing all realities of the multiverse into a singularity- check


Vs

A power that beat the powers of a single universe and an LT Mbody (LT's mbodys have been thwarted by Korvac and destroyed by Reed Richards inventions therefore its absorption at the hands of the HOTI doesnt say much )

Please point me to ANY narration that says the LT that confronted Thanos was an M-Body. ANY narration. Plus, also give me any narration that says the M-body was weaker in power than the LT normal self. Some M-body are just as powerful and others are weaker. Please point me to any narration saying it was an m-body and then a weaker m-body

Originally posted by quanchi112
no, because no one is actively resisting her. She's that irrelevant. Eternity is the master of the 616 reality until the ig surpassed him. This was stated on panel.


That's irrelevant as Eternity is the master of this reality and not Phoenix. Lt is far more powerful than universal anyways. I mean this is just becoming a huge lesson here educating you.

The fact that no one was resisting is irrelevant when the difference in power level is so exponential. If Jeans power was tapped into 616s finite allocation of power then you would have an argument. However Jean is tapped into a source beyond that pocket of power, one that has no defined limit. Please try and acquire some common sense.

The abstracts are mere components of the little globe Jean cradled and had total atomic control of in her palm. Jean empowered by the Phoenix is on another level to them. The full Phoenix Force itself is the shit

Originally posted by quanchi112
Lt stated he could beat the ig. His power is multiversal. Saying it's only universal shows how behind the times you are.

Please go and read the relevant issue again.

LT doubted his power and said he was unsure about whether he could stand against the IG. He then talked adam out of a confrontation saying that together they would destroy the universe.

Multiversal in nature, nothing to show his power extends to that level.

Try again

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The fact that no one was resisting is irrelevant when the difference in power level is so exponential. If Jeans power was tapped into 616s finite allocation of power then you would have an argument. However Jean is tapped into a source beyond that pocket of power, one that has no defined limit. Please try and acquire some common sense.

The abstracts are mere components of the little globe Jean cradled and had total atomic control of in her palm. Jean empowered by the Phoenix is on another level to them. The full Phoenix Force itself is the shit Infinite power is small time here. A Celestial has infinite power an dis on a higher scale than a cube being. It's like you're so dug in here you refuse to even have a clear understanding of the fact infinite power is small time. Eternity is on a much higher scale than the phoenix force.

The Phoenix will never ever manipulate the abstracts. I mean she's not even as impressive as the un which the press of a button can end and recreate the universe. Laughs.

And the Phoenix force is the same energies as the energies of creation right... Aka the primordial power... Same as that wielded by the elders of the universe and tenebrous and aegis? Etc..

It's funny though GS... you claim the Phoenix is the force above all and yet it's NEVER EVER seen during any crisis. During all the IG sagas why isn't it called on to help.. if according to you that would be all that is needed? Yet, when Marvel was bringing in the heavy players to battle an IG user or the Heart or CC... they never ever bring the Phoenix force in? kinda odd don't you think? Unless of course it isn't near as powerful as the you're trying to make it out to be.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Please go and read the relevant issue again.

LT doubted his power and said he was unsure about whether he could stand against the IG. He then talked adam out of a confrontation saying that together they would destroy the universe.

Multiversal in nature, nothing to show his power extends to that level.

Try again He stated he did meaning he did have the power to wrest the ig from his grasp. Lt was not unsure of whether he believed he could or not.
You don't even comprehend what you read.

Originally posted by rotiart
Let's be clear about something. When Phoenix was stated as being the same energies that ignited the big bang that does not make her creation itself...

Invisible women can harm celestials because ironically her powers consist of Te same as theirs...

Living tribunal steps in when an abstract asks or he feels the multimeter is in danger as a whole...

During the infinity saga he was asked to empower the infinity gauntlet etc..

Korvac threatened to exceed his realm...

The chaos wave had greater influence due to extenuating circumstances and was not the scarlet witches actions alone...

It also did not endanger the greater universe but only changed it... Same as the Jean grey feat... Scarlet witch said no more mutants... Jean said Scott go hook up with emma...

And his not havinge to act during the mkrann can just as easily mean the multiverse was never in peril.... He is omniscient after all... Or a real deal of monkey pis...

Take your pic. Differences of opinions that's what we have. :-)

The Phoenix Force is the Big Bang literally and its role in the natural scheme of things is to trigger the creation event.

It is not merely the same energies that ignited the Big Bang. Thats your misunderstanding.

Your point about LT is speculation. Your guesswork not a conclusive counter. All we have is events of multiversal/omniversal consequence and sometimes he shows up, somehow he doesnt.

The objective thing to do would be to just accept that, we havent been given any conclusive info to explain why specific events he was a no show and others he showed up.

Because of your beliefs about how things are youre trying to press the idea that its because they were insignificant or not really a threat in the end. That is your speculation. Sometimes he shows up, sometimes he doesnt. Its as simple as that. There is no official reason given therefore despite your own beliefs as to why you cant make a conclusive point about the circumstances in which he was absent.

It is the role of the Phoenix to perpetuate evolution amongst other things, hence why Jean took the actions she did in New Xmen. LT has its given role just the same. You therefore cannot look at a no show of LT during Phoenixes feats which are well within her jurisdiction and try to make a point about their cosmic significance.

The logic is lacking

Originally posted by quanchi112
Infinite power is small time here. A Celestial has infinite power an dis on a higher scale than a cube being. It's like you're so dug in here you refuse to even have a clear understanding of the fact infinite power is small time. Eternity is on a much higher scale than the phoenix force.

The Phoenix will never ever manipulate the abstracts. I mean she's not even as impressive as the un which the press of a button can end and recreate the universe. Laughs.

As stated on panel the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang that the abstracts derive from.

Youve got it the wrong way here mate.

Before you continue to post/waste time please read some comics

Originally posted by rotiart
And the Phoenix force is the same energies as the energies of creation right... Aka the primordial power... Same as that wielded by the elders of the universe and tenebrous and aegis? Etc..

Nope. Wrong way around.

The Phoenix at a universal level is one and the same as the Big Bang. The Power Primordial is a derivative of the Big Bang.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He stated he did meaning he did have the power to wrest the ig from his grasp. Lt was not unsure of whether he believed he could or not.
You don't even comprehend what you read.

Your sentence doesnt even make sense.

He stated clear as day that he was unsure of whether he had the power to take the IG by Force. Its as simple as that.

Multiversal role and nature does not equate to a multiversal level of power.

Read some comics

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As stated on panel the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang that the abstracts derive from.

Youve got it the wrong way here mate.

Before you continue to post/waste time please read some comics What does that have to do with their power level ? It's like saying Thanos can't ever create someone more powerful than himself such as Omega. Think, Apply logic. Learn.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It's funny though GS... you claim the Phoenix is the force above all and yet it's NEVER EVER seen during any crisis. During all the IG sagas why isn't it called on to help.. if according to you that would be all that is needed? Yet, when Marvel was bringing in the heavy players to battle an IG user or the Heart or CC... they never ever bring the Phoenix force in? kinda odd don't you think? Unless of course it isn't near as powerful as the you're trying to make it out to be.

Where were the abstracts when the M'kraan crystal threatened the previous multiverse? Phoenix stopped it. When the crystal eventually destroyed the previous multiverse who was there to prepare the way for the next creation aiding Galactus' creation? Phoenix.

When the M'kraan crystal affected this multiverse who stopped it?

Where was LT when the Chaos Wave crashed through existence?


You cant answer that. There are times when he shows, times when he doesnt. Its as simple as that. Therefore be a credible debater and learn objectivity

Originally posted by quanchi112
What does that have to do with their power level ? It's like saying Thanos can't ever create someone more powerful than himself such as Omega. Think, Apply logic. Learn.


As stated by Galactus and LT (and i will happily supply the scans from Quasar and Excalibur to shut you up if you wish )

The universes in Marvel are closed systems. After the Big Bang, all energy and matter that will ever be has been made. Energy just transfers from state to state, nothing new ( as in new energy) is created within the system. You just have a pocket of energy within reality and thats that till the end.

With that in mind, given that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang, that very source of power at a universal level, the abstracts within this closed system cant become greater than the Force. They can becme greater than each other by fighting over the ambient energy within, but the Phoenix Force in its totality isnt summed up by the universal Big Bang. It is a multiversal energy source as verified by its latest bio.

That is why Jean Grey just one of its hosts was able to display greater than universal power by manipulating 616 so casually in her palm.

The closed system model that operates within marvel destroys your argument. Im sorry mate

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix Force is the Big Bang literally and its role in the natural scheme of things is to trigger the creation event.

It is not merely the same energies that ignited the Big Bang. Thats your misunderstanding.

Your point about LT is speculation. Your guesswork not a conclusive counter. All we have is events of multiversal/omniversal consequence and sometimes he shows up, somehow he doesnt.

The objective thing to do would be to just accept that, we havent been given any conclusive info to explain why specific events he was a no show and others he showed up.

Because of your beliefs about how things are youre trying to press the idea that its because they were insignificant or not really a threat in the end. That is your speculation. Sometimes he shows up, sometimes he doesnt. Its as simple as that. There is no official reason given therefore despite your own beliefs as to why you cant make a conclusive point about the circumstances in which he was absent.

It is the role of the Phoenix to perpetuate evolution amongst other things, hence why Jean took the actions she did in New Xmen. LT has its given role just the same. You therefore cannot look at a no show of LT during Phoenixes feats which are well within her jurisdiction and try to make a point about their cosmic significance.

The logic is lacking

Actually my logic is very bit the same as yours.. Exchange lt with pf... And bam... It's a fallacy of argument to apply negatives against my arguments without accepting a double standard with yours... :-/

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please point me to ANY narration that says the LT that confronted Thanos was an M-Body. ANY narration. Plus, also give me any narration that says the M-body was weaker in power than the LT normal self. Some M-body are just as powerful and others are weaker. Please point me to any narration saying it was an m-body and then a weaker m-body

Galactus > Pheonix Force
Living Tribubal >>>>> Galactus
Thotu >>>>>>> Living Tribunal

Kurupt Thanosi you are stepping in here like you actually know what you are talking about and have the audacity to ask me to direct you to evidence to cover basic well known facts.

Do a forum search for my user name and look at the scarlet witch thread i posted in and find the evidence in my posts. I dont cater for the ignorant, especially when they front like they know their shit but come up short.

Happy searching

Originally posted by rotiart
Actually my logic is very bit the same as yours.. Exchange lt with pf... And bam... It's a fallacy of argument to apply negatives against my arguments without accepting a double standard with yours... :-/

Explain the double standard. Maybe perceived through misinterpretation but i certainly dont have one in my argument. Explain clearly and then i will precede to clear things up for you

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Kurupt Thanosi you are stepping in here like you actually know what you are talking about and have the audacity to ask me to direct you to evidence to cover basic well known facts.

Do a forum search for my user name and look at the scarlet witch thread i posted in and find the evidence in my posts. I dont cater for the ignorant, especially when they front like they know their shit but come up short.

Happy searching

you have ZERO narration stating that it was an M-body nor that it was weaker than the original. Concession accepted.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As stated by Galactus and LT (and i will happily supply the scans from Quasar and Excalibur to shut you up if you wish )

The universes in Marvel are closed systems. After the Big Bang, all energy and matter that will ever be has been made. Energy just transfers from state to state, nothing new ( as in new energy) is created within the system. You just have a pocket of energy within reality and thats that till the end.

With that in mind, given that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang, that very source of power at a universal level, the abstracts within this closed system cant become greater than the Force. They can becme greater than each other by fighting over the ambient energy within, but the Phoenix Force in its totality isnt summed up by the universal Big Bang. It is a multiversal energy source as verified by its latest bio.

That is why Jean Grey just one of its hosts was able to display greater than universal power by manipulating 616 so casually in her palm.

The closed system model that operates within marvel destroys your argument. Im sorry mate What's stated ? Out with it, lad.

Yes, they can. You have no evidence to support your claims just ridiculous theories. It's one writer's take on the big bang while another writer viewed it as the Infinity Being which sums up the gems. Do your homework next time.

Lt's power seems greater than that and the heart poopooed on his head. Show me the Phoenix beating any abstracts. Otherwise you're just exaggerating feats which is the worst way to debate.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Kurupt Thanosi you are stepping in here like you actually know what you are talking about and have the audacity to ask me to direct you to evidence to cover basic well known facts.

Do a forum search for my user name and look at the scarlet witch thread i posted in and find the evidence in my posts. I dont cater for the ignorant, especially when they front like they know their shit but come up short.

Happy searching You calling someone else ignorant is ironic.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
you have ZERO narration stating that it was an M-body nor that it was weaker than the original. Concession accepted.

Your argument is handled in this very thread and in the scarlet witch thread i handled you in the other week.

You talk too much kid learn to listen.

Concepts dont have physical bodies and therefore require mbodys to have a physical presence in reality. LT is a conceptual being. Check his handbook entry i will not go through the effort of proving common knowledge.

In the Quasar scans that have been posted here many times, it is stated quite clearly by anthropomorpo that the mbodys can have varying levels of an entitys totality placed within them which explains their differing showings.

All common knowledge. Read. Treat your ignorance

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Explain the double standard. Maybe perceived through misinterpretation but i certainly dont have one in my argument. Explain clearly and then i will precede to clear things up for you

You state that the fact that lt doesn't make appearances in every high cosmic event is because he isn't necessary. Pf does not make appearances in every high cosmic event either. Including ones that are universe ending... Multiverse ending dilemmas... But you have other abstracts appear. And asking me to "explain clearly" is rather disingenuous when you consistently make arguments about telling others like quanchi to go read comics...

The argument about lt and the infinity gauntlet has lt asking Adam if he would really have this reality destroyed in a battle over the ig... That does not mean lt would lose... It means the collateral damage from the confrontation would be Te destruction of their reality... And Adam has seen every possible future... And in the end he knew he had to give it up... This identifies that Adam never had a winning shot to begin with otherwise he would have seen a future favorable to him.... Something most poor readers neglect...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your argument is handled in this very thread and in the scarlet witch thread i handled you in the other week.

You talk too much kid learn to listen.

Concepts dont have physical bodies and therefore require mbodys to have a physical presence in reality. LT is a conceptual being. Check his handbook entry i will not go through the effort of proving common knowledge.

In the Quasar scans that have been posted here many times, it is stated quite clearly by anthropomorpo that the mbodys can have varying levels of an entitys totality placed within them which explains their differing showings.

All common knowledge. Read. Treat your ignorance

You didn't answer my question... please point to ANY NARRATION stating that this supposed M-body of the LT that appeared in Marvel: The End.. was a weaker version M-Body. There aren't multiple Lt's for each universe. There is ONE LT. So when Thanos absorbed the LT he absorbed the entire LT. There was ZERO mention of it being a weaker version M-body nor that the LT still existed and wasn't absorbed totatly.

Originally posted by rotiart
You state that the fact that lt doesn't make appearances in every high cosmic event is because he isn't necessary. Pf does not make appearances in every high cosmic event either. Including ones that are universe ending... Multiverse ending dilemmas... But you have other abstracts appear. And asking me to "explain clearly" is rather disingenuous when you consistently make arguments about telling others like quanchi to go read comics...

The argument about lt and the infinity gauntlet has lt asking Adam if he would really have this reality destroyed in a battle over the ig... That does not mean lt would lose... It means the collateral damage from the confrontation would be Te destruction of their reality... And Adam has seen every possible future... And in the end he knew he had to give it up... This identifies that Adam never had a winning shot to begin with otherwise he would have seen a future favorable to him.... Something most poor readers neglect...

Originally posted by Stall_19
Ultimate Nullifier, White Crown Phoenix, Infinity Gauntlet, Classic Beyonder, Living Tribunal or something else?

None of them or the Heart of the Infinite/Universe, 'The Editor' character from FF who semi broke the 4th Wall. He was beyond them all.

Originally posted by Free_Speech
None of them or the Heart of the Infinite/Universe, 'The Editor' character from FF who semi broke the 4th Wall. He was beyond them all.

Hrm? Issue? Don't know what you speak about? Jen Walters (she hulk) breaks fourth wall... So has deadpool... Mr fantastic on one occasion created a
Device that took him to meet "god"... What did this editor do?

Originally posted by quanchi112
What's stated ? Out with it, lad.

Yes, they can. You have no evidence to support your claims just ridiculous theories. It's one writer's take on the big bang while another writer viewed it as the Infinity Being which sums up the gems. Do your homework next time.

GALACTUS:

"The universe is finite. At the moment of creation all that will ever be was. In birth and death there is transition and in living advancement, but nothing new is created"

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7536/excalibur061p21.th.jpg

NEXUS GUARDIANS-

"All other power in the multiverse is divided up and accounted for. You have added to a CLOSED SYSTEM"

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5594/quasar5019.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



THE LIVING TRIBUNAL:

"That world is contaminated with an energy from beyond this multiverse. Its presence here upsets the universal balance."

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8828/quasar05711.th.jpg

"I want none of its anomalous power leaking into the greater universe"

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9438/quasar05712.th.jpg


As i correctly informed you, the universes of Marvel are closed systems. The Big Bang is the be all and end all of energy within each reality and each reality has a fixed allocation of power and that is enforced. The Phoenix Force at a universal level is the Big Bang. It is the sentient creation energies of the multiverse. Short of introducing some unknown energy from outside the multiverse which is not permitted anyway, or utilising an artifact, the universal abstracts can NOT become greater than the Phoenix Force.



Originally posted by quanchi112
Lt's power seems greater than that and the heart poopooed on his head. Show me the Phoenix beating any abstracts. Otherwise you're just exaggerating feats which is the worst way to debate.

And youre wasting my time and thread space with poorly researched rants. Take a time out and read some comics

Originally posted by rotiart
Hrm? Issue? Don't know what you speak about? Jen Walters (she hulk) breaks fourth wall... So has deadpool... Mr fantastic on one occasion created a
Device that took him to meet "god"... What did this editor do?

Can't remember the issue, I have it somewhere; because, shockingly for this forum....I read it. He explained he 'wrote' the multiverse and it was in a constant state of flux because of this. Reed believed him. Good story actually, he was a little bald guy with a pen.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
GALACTUS:

"The universe is finite. At the moment of creation all that will ever be was. In birth and death there is transition and in living advancement, but nothing new is created"

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7536/excalibur061p21.th.jpg

NEXUS GUARDIANS-

"All other power in the multiverse is divided up and accounted for. You have added to a CLOSED SYSTEM"

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5594/quasar5019.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



THE LIVING TRIBUNAL:

"That world is contaminated with an energy from beyond this multiverse. Its presence here upsets the universal balance."

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8828/quasar05711.th.jpg

"I want none of its anomalous power leaking into the greater universe"

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9438/quasar05712.th.jpg


As i correctly informed you, the universes of Marvel are closed systems. The Big Bang is the be all and end all of energy within each reality and each reality has a fixed allocation of power and that is enforced. The Phoenix Force at a universal level is the Big Bang. It is the sentient creation energies of the multiverse. Short of introducing some unknown energy from outside the multiverse which is not permitted anyway, or utilising an artifact, the universal abstracts can NOT become greater than the Phoenix Force.





And youre wasting my time and thread space with poorly researched rants. Take a time out and read some comics It's a misinformed argument. It's also been contradicted by other comics as well. It's like using Galactus' words and saying no new writer can come up with anything really new based on this statement. It's absurd to say the least. Look at what the chaos king is doing. Any writer can change the status quo for any give story as long as it sees print. LOL.

The Lt sees the imbalanes and thereby acts. Ersihkigal was dealt dealt with.

The ig story has the Infinity Being creating the entire universe. Each writer can define their own big bang how you will you are choosing one and trying to conform all of comics into this one terrible story which doesn't fit or add up.

Try again please.

Originally posted by rotiart
You state that the fact that lt doesn't make appearances in every high cosmic event is because he isn't necessary. Pf does not make appearances in every high cosmic event either. Including ones that are universe ending... Multiverse ending dilemmas... But you have other abstracts appear. And asking me to "explain clearly" is rather disingenuous when you consistently make arguments about telling others like quanchi to go read comics...

As i thought. Misinterpretation

You stated that the fact that LT wasnt around for Jeans manipulation 616 meant that it wasnt a significant event or threat to the multiversal balance.

That was illogical because Jean wasnt doing anything evil or detrimental to reality. She was fixing it and perpetuating the creation cycle by continuing its existence which is within the Phoenixes role. Therefore why would LT turn up?

So using his no show in that instance to support your misguided idea that it was because it wasnt a big threat was illogical when LT has shown up in the past for events that have upset the balance of power in the multiverse which that event had nothing to do with.

LT refused to help during the Infinity Gauntlet series because it wasnt within his jurisdiction. If the abstracts hadnt gone to him begging for help he wouldnt have appeared.

He only takes action when it is something within his jurisdiction, something that affects the balance of power in existence, not for simple destruction or seizing of power which he classes as survival of the fittest.

The Phoenix Force has its assigned role to, to perpetuate the creation cycle, to aid evolution, burn away what doesnt work and to perform cosmic surgery on damaged timelines.

The appearance or non appearance of both of these characters can be explained by their comparative roles.

It is a poor argument to say that Phoenixes reality saving feats were not of any significance just because LT wasnt there. They have their assigned roles, they appear where they have jurisdiction.

Simple.

Quanchi does indeed need to read comics if hes requesting proof for that which is common knowledge, that which has been thoroughly discussed and proven many a time on these forums, that which is shown in popular mainstream comics.

Originally posted by rotiart
The argument about lt and the infinity gauntlet has lt asking Adam if he would really have this reality destroyed in a battle over the ig... That does not mean lt would lose... It means the collateral damage from the confrontation would be Te destruction of their reality... And Adam has seen every possible future... And in the end he knew he had to give it up... This identifies that Adam never had a winning shot to begin with otherwise he would have seen a future favorable to him.... Something most poor readers neglect...

Its as simple as this. LT stated clear as day he did not know if he had the power to take the gauntlet by force. If you can accept LTs omniscience regarding his future visions then you must objectively accept it for his assessment of his own capacity.

He didnt know if he had the power, therefore you are in no position to claim otherwise. LT asked Adam to consider the ramifications of a confrontation on 616, Adams reality so he gave up. That does NOT suggest in anyway that Adam knew he couldnt win a battle with LT, but instead that he wanted to avoid destroying his native reality in a selfish attempt to retain his newfound power. So he did the right thing and gave up the power.

That situation tells us that LTs comparative power level with the IG is very close. It doesnt tell us conclusively which one is greater as you would try and argue.

No she wasn't. She and the LT made a deal, they would each pick a champion and have them fight it out. The loser gave up their position and power. The Lt choose the SS and Eriskigal choose Quasar. Quasar threw the fight once he figured out who choose him as their champion. Erishkigal then lost possession of the Star Brand.

The LT didn't do jack.

Just like the IG saga. Adam gave up the IG because he didn't want to wreck the Dimension of Manifestations. The LT admitted himself in the very issue he wasn't sure if he could force the IG from Adam's hands.

The LT didn't do jack again. In fact, he couldn't even affect the IG until it's wielder submitted to the LT's jurisdiction.

Originally posted by zopzop
No she wasn't. She and the LT made a deal, they would each pick a champion and have them fight it out. The loser gave up their position and power. The Lt choose the SS and Eriskigal choose Quasar. Quasar threw the fight once he figured out who choose him as their champion. Erishkigal then lost possession of the Star Brand.

The LT didn't do jack.

Just like the IG saga. Adam gave up the IG because he didn't want to wreck the Dimension of Manifestations. The LT admitted himself in the very issue he wasn't sure if he could force the IG from Adam's hands.

The LT didn't do jack again. In fact, he couldn't even affect the IG until it's wielder submitted to the LT's jurisdiction. The only reason lt didn't get involved in a fight is because this would be counterproductve to the multiverse and would destroy what his purpose is to oversee.

The Lt undid warlock's actions with the snap of his finger. I mean if you are going to try and correct someone don't leave yourself up like this in the future.

Warlock wasn't trying to kill them. That wasn't a death blow type attack. The LT admitted in the issue he wasn't sure he could force the IG from his hands. Did you even read the issue?

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's a misinformed argument. It's also been contradicted by other comics as well. It's like using Galactus' words and saying no new writer can come up with anything really new based on this statement. It's absurd to say the least. Look at what the chaos king is doing. Any writer can change the status quo for any give story as long as it sees print. LOL.

The Lt sees the imbalanes and thereby acts. Ersihkigal was dealt dealt with.

The ig story has the Infinity Being creating the entire universe. Each writer can define their own big bang how you will you are choosing one and trying to conform all of comics into this one terrible story which doesn't fit or add up.

Try again please.

You havent actually countered the point i made. A point that still stands strong. To do so you would have to show through feat and statement that marvels universes arent closed systems. You cant just say whatever writers change the status quo all the time. Yh they do. What has that got to do with closed systems? Where was the point on that changed.

Instead of addressing the point made you went off on an unrelated tangent.

As it stands as stated by Nexus guardians, LT and Galactus, the Big Bang is the be all and end all of each reality. No new energy is created or available naturally.

Therefore the Phoenix Force as the Big Bang in the natural scheme of things is greater than any and all abstracts that derive from her and tap into her power.

Back up your points or give it a rest

Originally posted by zopzop
Warlock wasn't trying to kill them. That wasn't a death blow type attack. The LT admitted in the issue he wasn't sure he could force the IG from his hands. Did you even read the issue? Yes, and he did conclude he did have the power to do so but doing so would destroy the reality in question so he would only do so if warlock wouldn't give them to him. I mean you might have read it but I don't think you comprehended it.

@Quanchi

facepalm2

for a Thanos fan you didnt really read the IG saga did you?



Thanos and Adam Warlock when donning the Glove stated that they were the end all be all of reality every possibility every point in time was theirs...

Multiversal right there.

and in the infinity watch issue one Tribunal didnt undo adam warlock's action as he simply fixed the furniture after Adam Warlock's outburst.

Tribunal also stated that a battle between him and warlock would destroy all actuality... Tribunal couldnt take the IG from Warlock or turn it off unless warlock allowed it.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/67610/1351421-warlockinfinitywatch01_17_super.jpg

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, and he did conclude he did have the power to do so but doing so would destroy the reality in question so he would only do so if warlock wouldn't give them to him. I mean you might have read it but I don't think you comprehended it.

Really? The LT has been shown as having the power to destroy a universe? You got a link to the scan or an issue number where this appeared on panel?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, and he did conclude he did have the power to do so but doing so would destroy the reality in question so he would only do so if warlock wouldn't give them to him. I mean you might have read it but I don't think you comprehended it.

Are you having a laugh? HE might have read it and not comprehended it?

LT states that hes unsure if he has the power to wrest the gauntlet by force. However despite his uncertainty he made a judgement anyway and ruled against Adam. Where in that scene did LT revise his opinion on his comparative power with the IG and state that no he'd changed his mind and now thought he was stronger than the IG?

Utter BUUUUUULLshit

Originally posted by zopzop
Really? The LT has been shown as having the power to destroy a universe? You got a link to the scan or an issue number where this appeared on panel? When did I state he was going to destroy that reality I said the result of their battle would do so. It seems you still don't understand what I meant.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Are you having a laugh? HE might have read it and not comprehended it?

LT states that hes unsure if he has the power to wrest the gauntlet by force. However despite his uncertainty he made a judgement anyway and ruled against Adam. Where in that scene did LT revise his opinion on his comparative power with the IG and state that no he'd changed his mind and now thought he was stronger than the IG?

Utter BUUUUUULLshit When he states I do he confirms he does have the power to do so. The other abstracts agreed Lt's powers was greater and come on the ig can't rule on the Lt's power not working. I mean use your head.

You are laughing uncontrollably at your own ignorance in the end.

Originally posted by King Castle
@Quanchi

facepalm2

for a Thanos fan you didnt really read the IG saga did you?



Thanos and Adam Warlock when donning the Glove stated that they were the end all be all of reality every possibility every point in time was theirs...

Multiversal right there.

and in the infinity watch issue one Tribunal didnt undo adam warlock's action as he simply fixed the furniture after Adam Warlock's outburst.

Tribunal also stated that a battle between him and warlock would destroy all actuality... Tribunal couldnt take the IG from Warlock or turn it off unless warlock allowed it.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/67610/1351421-warlockinfinitywatch01_17_super.jpg Wow, yet another person who doesn't understand what they read. Ok your lesson will now begin.

The ig doesn't make them the master of all realities. Think a little. I know exactly what you are referring to and that's not to say that the ig is more powerful than the Lt or that the ig works in another reality outside it's own. The 616 reality it is stronger than in any other reality but the Lt was still portrayed as superior to the ig.

Next page he confirms I do. It would only destroy that reality not all actuality. I mean post the proper word it's so easy to make you look bad.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WarlockInfinityWatch01-18.jpg


This scan he says this reality not all of actuality.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WarlockInfinityWatch01-19.jpg



Don't make the mistake of challenging my opinion again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When did I state he was going to destroy that reality I said the result of their battle would do so. It seems you still don't understand what I meant.

When he states I do he confirms he does have the power to do so. The other abstracts agreed Lt's powers was greater and come on the ig can't rule on the Lt's power not working. I mean use your head.

You are laughing uncontrollably at your own ignorance in the end.

Either your comprehension skills are abominable or you're making this up

He says i do judge against you. Not at any point in time does he change through statement his uncertainty about whether he could wrest the IG from Adam forcefully. Thats that.

Furthermore LT only disabled the IG's power when it was given up and an inanimate object. A glove! Lol. Give an engineer a few tools and they could disable a tank from working if its unmanned but could they face up against a manned tank? lol

If LT had the power to just disable the IG like that, he wouldve done so instead of guilt trippin adam out of a confrontation.

Where did the abstracts agree LT's power was greater? Show some scans stating the point clearly

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Either your comprehension skills are abominable or you're making this up

He says i do judge against you. Not at any point in time does he change through statement his uncertainty about whether he could wrest the IG from Adam forcefully. Thats that.

Furthermore LT only disabled the IG's power when it was given up and an inanimate object. A glove! Lol. Give an engineer a few tools and they could disable a tank from working if its unmanned but could they face up against a manned tank? lol

If LT had the power to just disable the IG like that, he wouldve done so instead of guilt trippin adam out of a confrontation.

Where did the abstracts agree LT's power was greater? Show some scans stating the point clearly I do means he does have the power to take the ig from him. Why would he try to take it if he didn't think he could anyways. How does that help balancing the multiverse if he destroys the universe he's in and loses against the ig anyways. It makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Lt had to take it by force which he was prepared to do until warlock gave in.

Is this clear enough ?
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WarlockInfinityWatch01-04.jpg

Or did you really not even read the comic just saw a few scan and slapped a ridiculous argument to it like you have in the past.

Quanchi

dont strawman and play semantic games with me.

Synonyms: existence, corporality, corporeality, reality, subsistence, thingness

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actuality


i could have said universe or existence it would be the same.

Originally posted by King Castle
Quanchi

dont strawman and play semantic games with me.

Synonyms: existence, corporality, corporeality, reality, subsistence, thingness

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actuality


i could have said universe or existence it would be the same. It said this reality meaning this universe alone not every reality or all of actuality. You do know there is more than one universe, right ?

Originally posted by Stall_19
Ultimate Nullifier, White Crown Phoenix, Infinity Gauntlet, Classic Beyonder, Living Tribunal or something else? the foreigner

@Galactic Storm (edit: Doh!! Thats what I get for not reading this entire thread before posting; a scan of page 20 is on page 7)

Although this pains me GREATLY to do so, I am in agreeance with Quan as pertains the level of power possessed by the Living Tribunal oppossed to the power of the Infinity Gauntlet...

At this very moment, I am physically reading Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1 and its clear that the LT is above the IG; I wish I could post scans, but I am posting on a ps3 and there is no scanner that it supports to my knowledge...but I can tell you verbatim what is happening on a page to page basis.


On page 8, Warlock throws a temper tantrum and wrecks havok on those present at the trial with a powerful omnidirectional blast; with a snap of his finger, LT restores order on page 9...to which Warlock states "how??"

Its very clear that Warlock was shocked that the Tribunal was able to do this.


And I am sorry, I just do not see a statement of doubt on the Tribunals part on wether or not he could beat Warlock; the conversation I think you have mistaken occurs on page 20...the conversation goes as such:

Warlock (talking directly to the LT): So in other words, it all comes down to you deciding if I should retain control of the Infinity Gems.

Living Tribunal (talking directly to Warlock): AND DETERMINING IF I HAVE THE POWER TO...

Warlock: ...wrest the Gauntlet from me.

LT: (silence)

Warlock: (silence)

LT: (silence)


See, I am sorry Galactic Storm, but that just doesnt qualify as a statement of doubt on the Tribunals part IMHO...

To my minds eye, he was deciding wether he could beat Warlock or not...and as the next few pages show, he decided he could definitely do it, but that the confrontation between the two would "LAY WASTE TO THIS REALITY."


And on pages 22 and 24, the Tribunal is standing face to face with Warlock without bulging from the energies being released from the IG...while the other Abstracts/High Powered Cosmics are either shielding themselvs or being hurled back by the IG's forces.

On page 24 in particular, when LT states "IS THAT WHAT YOU WISH? IS THAT THE TYPE OF GOD YOU ARE?" The Tribunal does appear ready to battle Warlock...but Warlcok backs down and surrenders to the Tribunals judgement.


Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but based on what I have reread twice now, I am convinced that the LT stands above the weilder of the Infinity Gems; he might not be vastly more power than the IG, but he is strong enough to eventually overcome its power...