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Ok, now its been confirmed on the VGA. Game takes place after Oblivion.

sRifj-2EEKs

get ready to smite on November 11, 2011

Magnificent. Looking forward to it.

Great, another chance to get raped by bears. I can't wait.



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**** YES!!! SKYRIM!!! *SQUEES*

Looks great....but i wish Bethesda would bring out another Terminator game.

Good lord, next holiday is looking to be completely stacked with great games.

Having only played Oblivion, this trailer didn't do anything for me, I guess you should know some earlier lore to get excited from such an teaser. But I did enjoy Oblivion, at least for the first 100 hours, even though I never completed it, so I'll keep an eye out.

Originally posted by Morridini
Having only played Oblivion, this trailer didn't do anything for me, I guess you should know some earlier lore to get excited from such an teaser. But I did enjoy Oblivion, at least for the first 100 hours, even though I never completed it, so I'll keep an eye out.

It's not that the trailer was great. It wasn't, not even close. It's that there's another Elder Scrolls game. Bethesda always reaches a certain level of quality, and fans know what type of game to expect. So it's just the news that has us excited, not necessarily the trailer.

Awesome!

Originally posted by Digi
It's not that the trailer was great. It wasn't, not even close. It's that there's another Elder Scrolls game. Bethesda always reaches a certain level of quality, and fans know what type of game to expect. So it's just the news that has us excited, not necessarily the trailer.

Only thing good about the trailer was it implies we get to fight dragons finnally

Originally posted by Digi
It's not that the trailer was great. It wasn't, not even close. It's that there's another Elder Scrolls game. Bethesda always reaches a certain level of quality, and fans know what type of game to expect. So it's just the news that has us excited, not necessarily the trailer. KOTOR2!?!?!?

What about Kotor2?

*Does the happy dance*

Originally posted by Morridini
Having only played Oblivion, this trailer didn't do anything for me, I guess you should know some earlier lore to get excited from such an teaser. But I did enjoy Oblivion, at least for the first 100 hours, even though I never completed it, so I'll keep an eye out.

Ah, dude. Go back and play Morrowind. its so much better.

Morrowind was pretty awesome, I hope they bring back werewolves in this one. So much better than becoming a vampire.

Originally posted by Dark Exile
Ah, dude. Go back and play Morrowind. its so much better. Both games are roughly of similar quality.

While the RPG aspect of Morrowind was superior, particularly in exploration and whatnot, the actual gameplay overall was superior. Though lack of levitation made me a sad camper when I played Oblivion.

Would still highly recommend Morrowind though, I still play both.

Also, becoming a Werewolf would be pretty coolio, dood. Though I bet that in this game you can become HALF DRAGON! O:

Originally posted by NemeBro
Both games are roughly of similar quality.

While the RPG aspect of Morrowind was superior, particularly in exploration and whatnot, the actual gameplay overall was superior. Though lack of levitation made me a sad camper when I played Oblivion.

Would still highly recommend Morrowind though, I still play both.

Also, becoming a Werewolf would be pretty coolio, dood. Though I bet that in this game you can become HALF DRAGON! O:
That's assuming we're playing dragon born, it may be like the last game where an NPC is the person who has to save everyone. Which would be pretty lame

Originally posted by General_Iroh
That's assuming we're playing dragon born, it may be like the last game where an NPC is the person who has to save everyone. Which would be pretty lame True. **** Martin. Going from Nerevarine to Champion of Cyrodill was kinda lame. Though you did then become Sheogorath. Yet did not really become more powerful. Which was also kinda lame.

WOOT! I'm Sheogorath! "FREEZE!!!" .... *swings my sword, though the attack does no damage to the monster* ..... *Freeze wears off, gets raped* @.@

For its time, Daggerfall was the best of the series. The insane critical acclaim and cult following can attest to this.

By modern standards, Oblivion was indeed the best. Morrowind backers, exist, but there are/were well-documented flaws with it that were largely addressed in Oblivion.

Check out Ushgarak's Game Review thread and you'll see a large roast on Oblivion for all its faults =\

I really hope that you get more choices in Skyrim, I mean in Oblivion you could do EVERYTHING. You were the king of thieves, Cyrodill's most infamous murderer and at the same time you were its most noble fighter and its most powerful wizard. I mean damn, that's cool, but it's also a bit ridiculous. I would much prefer that you actually choose your path of good and evil and along the quests you have choices, it's not just do what the quest says or don't advance. Like when Lucien orders you to kill the brotherhood I would've loved to have sided with them over Lucien any day of the week and take the consequences. Personally I'm not a fable fan, but it does base a lot more on your choices than almost any other game, and I wish the Elder scrolls would adopt that. If nothing else it would create a bit more replay value.

Oblivion's Quality on Roles really was messed up. Like Ush said in his Review, you get to be the Master of Thieves, Mages, Fighters, Murderers, and it's just a bit ridiculous. What were you before that? A prisoner. I mean honestly, I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to achieve great things but you can be the absolute best of everything. I would have settled for like Commander of the Fighters Guild or to be on the High Council of the Mages Guild. I wouldn't mind being 2nd in Command of the Thieves Guild, but being able to be the best of everything is just kind of lame.

My guess is that Skyrim will be worse but I'll still give it a shot. My estimate for it right now. 7/10.

I have no problem with becoming the best at something, that's what happens in most games, the problem I have is that your character has no personality. In an actual roleplay environment your character should have some personality. You're good, or evil, or somewhere inbetween, you need some decision to define your character. That's nonexistent in oblivion. No good and decent knight who was fighting to protect the people of Cyrodill would turn around and murder those same people.

But in Fable the same character that would kill people gained the most amount of Gold in the Treasury to save people! D: Why can't a Dark Brotherhood Assassin work to save Cyrodill?

Why would he unless it benefited him? An assassin who kills only for money obviously puts no stake on human life. So why would he work to protect it?

Originally posted by General_Iroh
Why would he unless it benefited him? An assassin who kills only for money obviously puts no stake on human life. So why would he work to protect it? Well, you know, it may have something to do with if Mehrunes Dagon was not stopped, all of Mundus would be fiery ash, and he would be dead.

True.

Hence why I said "Why would he unless it benefited him?" That's plenty of reason for him to participate in the main campaign, which is perfect. However my point is that he wouldn't have any reason to join the fighter's guild which was made to help people.

Originally posted by General_Iroh
I have no problem with becoming the best at something, that's what happens in most games, the problem I have is that your character has no personality. In an actual roleplay environment your character should have some personality. You're good, or evil, or somewhere inbetween, you need some decision to define your character. That's nonexistent in oblivion. No good and decent knight who was fighting to protect the people of Cyrodill would turn around and murder those same people.

A frequent criticism of truly sandbox-style games. It's not for everyone.

Hell, for example, not only was Daggerfall's main character personality-less, but the main plot was lacking as well (Oblivion at least has a coherent and reasonably epic main storyline). Yet it was an amazing game. It's more about what you make of it than expecting to play a fully polished game. The appeal is becoming head of everything, having a gigantic posh room at the top of a guild tower (a favorite of mine from the Mages Guild quest chain), becoming an unstoppable thief that amasses wealth and property (essentially what I did in Daggerfall, plotlines be damned), etc. etc. That stuff was cool. Figuring out how to cure my accidentally-gotten lycanthropy was awesome, by researching lore and following an insane quest chain (also Daggerfall). Mixing and matching potions and spells for my specific needs in the game was stimulating and fun. The game itself was lacking, sure, but it was MY game. That's the inherent appeal of the ES series.

Balancing could be better though. Casters were trash in Oblivion. I don't mind swinging a sword until the cows come home, but it was a definite area in need of improvement.

I don't think they should restrict those choices. I liked that I had the freedom to be all those things in Oblivion. I don't think there's a rule in any guild that prevents that.

I could see a problem if both guilds had the same interest, but that is why the guilds exist (to monopolize their respective fields so that no non-imperially chattered organization competes with them on their specialities).

Now if you could join the BlackWood company (not just while undercover) and the splinter Necromancers there would definitely be conflicts of interest.

While I personally only became fighters guild and mages guild in my primary playthrough (role played a sorceror knight), it was nice to play around with becoming tops in every guild with my 2nd playthrough.

As far as personality goes, that should be up to the player, you have the options in dialogue, factions etc to determine what your PC's personality will be. I think restricting things would be a step back in terms of the simulation aspect of these games.

Originally posted by Digi
A frequent criticism of truly sandbox-style games. It's not for everyone. Hell, for example, not only was Daggerfall's main character personality-less, but the main plot was lacking as well (Oblivion at least has a coherent and reasonably epic main storyline). Yet it was an amazing game. It's more about what you make of it than expecting to play a fully polished game.

Oblivion's story was quite epic and the leaders of the Mythic Dawn were interesting. It was more epic than Morrowind (epic as in a conflict was enormous, affecting the whole world). Morrowind certainly had a more tight neat story, it just wasn't as epic with respect to Tamriel and beyond.

Originally posted by Allankles
Oblivion's story was quite epic and the leaders of the Mythic Dawn were interesting. It was more epic than Morrowind (epic as in a conflict was enormous, affecting the whole world). Morrowind certainly had a more tight neat story, it just wasn't as epic with respect to Tamriel and beyond. It is true that stakes were not as high, Dagoth Ur was not as great a threat as Mehrunes Dagon.

That said, I generally preferred the plot and overall moral ambiguity of Morrowind.

Originally posted by Allankles
I don't think they should restrict those choices. I liked that I had the freedom to be all those things in Oblivion. I don't think there's a rule in any guild that prevents that.

I could see a problem if both guilds had the same interest, but that is why the guilds exist (to monopolize their respective fields so that no non-imperially chattered organization competes with them on their specialities).

Now if you could join the BlackWood company (not just while undercover) and the splinter Necromancers there would definitely be conflicts of interest.

While I personally only became fighters guild and mages guild in my primary playthrough (role played a sorceror knight), it was nice to play around with becoming tops in every guild with my 2nd playthrough.

As far as personality goes, that should be up to the player, you have the options in dialogue, factions etc to determine what your PC's personality will be. I think restricting things would be a step back in terms of the simulation aspect of these games.

I understand the point of some people just wanting to be the head of all the guilds at the end of the day, but I don't think there's any real argument that you could make for your character having an actual personality. The options in dialogue are complete crap, not even close to anything like Dragon age or KOTOR. And I'm not sure what factions you're referring to, unless you're talking about guilds? But even then it's pretty much a matter of do this quest or don't advance. In most other RP's you can do one of two things at the very least. i.e. in fable you can help the church eliminate all of the evil from the area or you can help destroy the church. In Elder Scrolls it's kill all of your fellow members in the brotherhood or...nothing. Just nothing. Slaughtering all of these people that you've worked with and who trust you is a HUGE decision. And you have absolutely no say in the matter. I would simply like to be able to have some choice, I would like to care about this character that I'm going to be playing for 100+ hours. But I suppose Digi puts forth a very valid point, that Elder Scrolls is designed as a purely sandbox-style game and as such I can only hope for a subtle change in the impact of choices, if anything.

Indeed, my views were expressed in my review. Restriction actually leads to better, more meaningful games.

Though number one thing that ha to go is the enemy level scaling. That was a disaster.

I hope they throw in some decent Acrobatics this time. It'd be neat to climb up the side of a building like Assassin's Creed, whip out a bow and take someone out without even having anyone see you do it. Or parkour around the place to escape from guards.

And throw in the wanted system from Red Dead Redemption too, have to escape from guards by getting out of their field of vision.

Here's my problem with it.

-Leveling System: I agree with Ush on that matter. First off, you had to sleep after you got to a certain skill to level which makes no sense to me personally. After that, even if you level the only thing that changes is that the enemies get bigger and badder but noting with your character really changes. "Yay I can do a spinney swing kick thing!"

-Combat System: All games have their own base of combat yes but I really was just a bit disappointed with how the combat worked. You block then swing swing swing, block. I can compare this to fable and say that at least they had some special type attacks that you could do. I was just kind of disappointed when it came to this. I hope they make it better Skyrim.

-Voice: This is just me I guess but I hate the fact that every character is really just a mimic of every other character. Imperials sound the same, Nords sound the same. I guess this wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't for the fact that Martin and what not have a unique voice. I wanted a personal voice actor for the Champion myself

-Casting: All attack spells are the same. Lean forward and push hand further. Whether it's Touch or Distance. This makes me sad :'(

-Guilds: I suppose this only bothers me but I see this is kind of lame. I mean, you can be the Best Mage, the Best Warrior, the Best Thief, it's just stupid. An RPG is about Role Playing, but this game really doesn't give much of a choice. Character development with it is just stupid to me.

Originally posted by General_Iroh
I understand the point of some people just wanting to be the head of all the guilds at the end of the day, but I don't think there's any real argument that you could make for your character having an actual personality. The options in dialogue are complete crap, not even close to anything like Dragon age or KOTOR. And I'm not sure what factions you're referring to, unless you're talking about guilds? But even then it's pretty much a matter of do this quest or don't advance. In most other RP's you can do one of two things at the very least. i.e. in fable you can help the church eliminate all of the evil from the area or you can help destroy the church. In Elder Scrolls it's kill all of your fellow members in the brotherhood or...nothing. Just nothing. Slaughtering all of these people that you've worked with and who trust you is a HUGE decision. And you have absolutely no say in the matter. I would simply like to be able to have some choice, I would like to care about this character that I'm going to be playing for 100+ hours. But I suppose Digi puts forth a very valid point, that Elder Scrolls is designed as a purely sandbox-style game and as such I can only hope for a subtle change in the impact of choices, if anything.

Oh yes I see. They did manage to give us some of those type of choices in fall out 3. As an example in New Vegas (I know Obsidian) you had option to either turn against the Van Graff's by saving Rose or betray Rose to them.

Based on that I'm hopeful they'll expand the options. I can remember many missions in Fallout 3 and New Vegas where with a little more investigation you could uncover lies or truths instead of taking the easy and direct road.

Although again the ES universe has a more structured lore than Fallout, probably why the major events have a singular conclusion.

The only real choice I remember making in Oblivion as far as word choice was who I would give the book to for the Recommendation in the Mages Guild XD Even then, you could still steal the book back for the other person.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Indeed, my views were expressed in my review. Restriction actually leads to better, more meaningful games.

Though number one thing that ha to go is the enemy level scaling. That was a disaster.

Indeed. There are those of us who modded around that problem though. PC > Console. The balancing of classes needs addressed though...I'm pretty sure Bethesda won't mess up scaling again due to the massive backlash they received.

My earlier post describes why I feel the ES games are excellent, even in light of your criticisms (most of which I don't object to).

Well I can hardly give credit to a game if you need to mod something away- besides which, as the game was not built from the ground up for a static difficulty system that you meet the match of by levelling, just modding the scaling away only eases the immediate irritation; it still leaves the design issue in place. If they do it ground up this time, it will be better. As I mentioned in my review, it's not just the philosophy behind the scaling system that is bad- though it certainly is- but it is also in the player behaviour it created (i.e. everyone sticking their useless skills as primaries to AVOID levelling- if you create that sort of behaviour, you cocked up.) 'Resulting player behaviour' is also why I have an issue with Fire Emblem's unit death system; it is an issue a surprising number of game designers ignore. As an RP designer, I am very used to the concept that players will find the easiest way from A to B in your system, which is often massively at variance with your intent.

Not that I literally disliked the games, but I was always irritated by the inane praise of 'best game ever' it was getting from the professional press at the time, despite many glaring flaws.

Though I feel time has changed perspective; other games are being remembered more strongly now than Oblivion.

I agree the scaling system was terrible and took away from the fun of it.

As for more restrictions. I do agree the fewer choices you give players, the more coherent and detailed a story you can make. I don't know if I would equate that to it being better though as a gaming experience. Of course that could just be personal tastes.

I rather enjoyed having the feeling of being able to do everything. In my opinion with the ES series my only limitations with character play and styling was my own self-imposed ones. Which I rather liked.

I also liked Morrowind better than Oblivion.

The Arena in Oblivion was a personal disappointment to me at the end. If you had chosen to do the quest that he offered, you wouldn't even have an Epic Ending fight. You would feel bad, but it's a good way to take advantage. On one play through, my brother cranked up the difficulty to the highest, kept about 5 swords in his inventory, then went to town. He gained a crap load of Blade levels from it.
If they make anything like the Arena for Skyrim, I hope they make it better.

By becoming the champion of the arena however you awaken an evil, an ancient demon from the darkest pits of hell. Adoring fan O_O
That alone makes me not want a new arena.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well I can hardly give credit to a game if you need to mod something away

I'll disagree here, though I may have to play semantics to do so. It's not the developer's intent that I care about, it's my personal experience. And if I enjoy that experience, regardless of what I had to do to achieve it, then the game was a success. This is especially true in single-player games, where changing the game doesn't affect the balance of my character compared to others that might be playing.

The term "credit" muddies things though, because at that point I'm crediting both the game developers and the mod community, so it's not a credit to the game necessarily. And I do recognize the flaw. So we're technically in agreement, I just don't see as much of an issue with it. I ran a bunch of mods for Oblivion, as I do for a lot of PC games. As long as I'm not getting an unfair advantage out of it, it heightens my enjoyment without cheapening the experience.

Well I consider my critique to be that of the game as produced by the developers. And, as I said, it's an imperfect solution as a working one would have to have been in from the ground up.

Frankly, I think that a mod is a very weird platform from which to call a game a success. I am glad you enjoyed the mod but it is rather irrelevant to a review of the game, and in an example like this, when looking at the possible virtues of a new game, you most certainly cannot view it in the sense of "Oh, it will be ok as mods will improve it." It's also objectively true that a game that did not need significant modding to be as good as it could be is better than one that did.

I like modding games. I like the modding advantages you get with games like Fallout 3 and with Oblivion where you can gain a cool looking outfit like Spartan Armor or a demonic custom made gear; being able to dual wield swords. It's just so much fun, yes. In fact, Oblivion mods for me score a 15/10 lol (10/10 realistic). But the Oblivion game itself, minus mods, scores low. The game play was enjoyable first time I picked it up but the more that you play it, the more you realize "wow.. this is the same thing as always". An assignment to kill a necromancer, an Assignment to kill a few rats, An assignment to run to the top of a mountain and grab a book from a corpse.

Oblivion itself could have been much more graphically detailed. It is supposed to be like TES' form of Hell, but honestly? It just looks to me like the inside of a volcano. There's lava and rock and demonic beings with swords. Basic volcano to me XD

Aside from that part even! You have a mission to go to each town and shut down the Oblivion gate that stands right outside it. I found MULTIPLE problems with this.
1. All of the gates on the inside tend to be random EXCEPT specific ones which detail a very specific quest (like the Bruma Gate).
1.1. This leaves very little challenge as you could save before entering, go inside; if you don't like how the layout for this one is, just load up the game and go back in. I've done it a few times myself just because I didn't want to go through the caves to get to the tower.
2. Outside of Chorrol there are TWO gates. Directly outside of it. One from the South Entrance, and one from the East Entrance. I just don't feel right about destroying one and letting the other remain sense the Southern One is the only one you'll have a quest for.
3. The detail leaves such cheap ways to do things. I know someone else has done this. I've entered the gate and before I do anything, I look for shortcuts. I find a rock. Okay.. Jump on the rock, jump onto the mountain edge, walk through the open sections-- BAM! I'm at the tower with less then 10 minutes spent and no monsters having been fought. It leaves little purpose of even having the caves.
4. I love this part just because of how much I hate it. I've timed myself on this; you can destroy an Oblivion Gate without even drawing your sword but maybe once. When you get to the core room, you don't have to fight anything. Run up the side and click the Sigel Stone. Gate closed.

I could go on for a while but eh. I want to see Skyrim give challenge! I want to see dragons! I want to see Graphics that when I see them, it makes me want to fall to the ground crying! I want to see!! A RAT PARTY!!!!!!!! Wait what?

Yeah I agree with you there, Oblivion gates were boring and repetitive. In fact I ran through the main campaign as fast as I could just so they would all shut, I hated that the great scenery would all of a sudden go away because I got near one of the hundred gates across the place

Originally posted by General_Iroh
Yeah I agree with you there, Oblivion gates were boring and repetitive. In fact I ran through the main campaign as fast as I could just so they would all shut, I hated that the great scenery would all of a sudden go away because I got near one of the hundred gates across the place

One of my friends went through the entire thing and destroyed every single Oblivion gate that appeared (that she was able to enter at least)

Originally posted by Phoenix3068
One of my friends went through the entire thing and destroyed every single Oblivion gate that appeared (that she was able to enter at least)

wow, and she didn't have Midas Magic installed?

Nope, they played it legit =\

I destroyed every single Oblivion Gate. ._.

We can't all have massive balls like you 'Bro.

True enough.

I mostly did it for the Sigil Stones. And to say I could. estahuh

I couldn't bare it. I went into 3 then said "Screw it" and turned off the TV. I hate the towers because I tend to go in circles for 30 minutes before I find the right door to the right tower.

Originally posted by Phoenix3068
Nope, they played it legit =\

I hope your friend won't take offense and you neither Nemebro but, a bit obsessed maybe...

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well I consider my critique to be that of the game as produced by the developers. And, as I said, it's an imperfect solution as a working one would have to have been in from the ground up.

Frankly, I think that a mod is a very weird platform from which to call a game a success. I am glad you enjoyed the mod but it is rather irrelevant to a review of the game, and in an example like this, when looking at the possible virtues of a new game, you most certainly cannot view it in the sense of "Oh, it will be ok as mods will improve it." It's also objectively true that a game that did not need significant modding to be as good as it could be is better than one that did.

Agreed, almost in full. I don't disagree with the criticisms in your review, and you certainly can't review a game based on mods. I'm just looking at the game from a different perspective. Because many, many PC games have vibrant mod communities. When I look at how I view a game, I have to take that into account. But no, I wouldn't reflect that in a review were I to write one.

Like I said, we're mostly in agreement, I'm just focusing on a different aspect of the issue.

I say Oblivion receives a 7/10 legit and a 9/10 Modded as the mods don't so much change a few of my issues with it (mainly combat styling, but still, 9/10 is a good review)

Originally posted by Utrigita
I hope your friend won't take offense and you neither Nemebro but, a bit obsessed maybe...

lol she would just blush if you said that, she wouldn't mind, she might take it as a compliment! XD

I still quite enjoyed Oblivion, with and without mods.

Oblivion took 6 months of my life and I didn't even touch the main campaign.

Looking forward to this hope the levelling system isn't so game breaking.

I say the only way to play with a challenge and fun is to go through it and level up to max without even touching the story. That way you get to fight Grizzlehs X3

I'm really looking forward to it. Hopefully they'll have more underwater enemies instEad of those lame crabs.

Oh man. Anyone remember that giant baracuda in the mages basement? **** was that guy an annoying little shit. Stick some of those in the water and you've got some underwater enemies.

looking forward to this. the flaws of oblivion were fixed in fallout 3 so im looking forward to skyrim. the mroe choices you can make in this game the better.

Hopefully we'll see better underwater enemies, not that stupid crab again.

You already said that.

Whoops!

http://www.xboxygen.com/Medias/Images-Xbox-360/Scans-de-The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim

Spanish website, but it's the only place I could find scans from Gameinformer. Looks better than I expected and sounds like it will play significantly better.

Yeah I just read its gonna have dual wielding, getting rid of the class creation, as well as adjusting how the game levels with you.. totally stoked for this...

and i know its too much to hope for... but I want some kind of multiplayer.. even if its in the form of some kind of arena or something

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Yeah I just read its gonna have dual wielding, getting rid of the class creation, as well as adjusting how the game levels with you.. totally stoked for this...

and i know its too much to hope for... but I want some kind of multiplayer.. even if its in the form of some kind of arena or something
Yeah they're definitely improving everything I want them to, and multiplayer would be amazing. But it'll be awesome even without it, I mean the whole learning the dragon language is so epic. You can summon dragons, how f'n boss is that?!

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
and i know its too much to hope for... but I want some kind of multiplayer.. even if its in the form of some kind of arena or something

That is indeed to much to hope for. I for one wouldn't want to enter a Arena against a guy having 20+ addons increasing his stats etc. and me having vanilla.

Originally posted by Utrigita
That is indeed to much to hope for. I for one wouldn't want to enter a Arena against a guy having 20+ addons increasing his stats etc. and me having vanilla.
I dunno it would suck to play someone like that yeah, but playing with friends would be fun, and there's always going to be people out there that are at your level as well. It can't be worse than DBZ games online anyway, if ever there was a gap in items and skill it was that game.

Character models look a lot better at least.

Originally posted by Utrigita
That is indeed to much to hope for. I for one wouldn't want to enter a Arena against a guy having 20+ addons increasing his stats etc. and me having vanilla.

well the thing is.. for the arena in obliv, you couldnt enter with your gear (as far as I recall), you had to use the standard gladiator getup.. so it 'kinda' balanced out... they could easily put tighter restrictions, or just have a restricted and unrestricted mode.. /shrug

I mean I like their a.i. for the most part.. but nothing beats a human player, be it a team mate or an opponent

Originally posted by General_Iroh
Yeah they're definitely improving everything I want them to, and multiplayer would be amazing. But it'll be awesome even without it, I mean the whole learning the dragon language is so epic. You can summon dragons, how f'n boss is that?!

I wouldn't be hurt if it didn't have multiplayer. Summoning dragons sounds bad***, and the grapics look pretty nice. At least the ones I've seen.

JSRtYpNRoN0

hm


That is some pretty awesome stuff right there. mhmm

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
well the thing is.. for the arena in obliv, you couldnt enter with your gear (as far as I recall), you had to use the standard gladiator getup.. so it 'kinda' balanced out... they could easily put tighter restrictions, or just have a restricted and unrestricted mode.. /shrug

I mean I like their a.i. for the most part.. but nothing beats a human player, be it a team mate or an opponent

IIRC the rule concerning the armor was also removed at some point advancing through the arena, atleast I have been fighting in my Frostcrag armor in the arena recently, and while the armor might be similar, what about the weapons, magic skills, various magic jewelry etc.? I can summon a skeleton rigadingding, my opponent summons two hungers and a Balrog...

Pretty cool trailer. The scene where the dragonborn says something and it "erupts" has some awesome music.


Edit: I am still jizzing about that scene at 1:07. Probably the most epic moment in any trailer... EVER!

Yeah it's sick, just seeing that trailer pretty much makes it a shoe-in for game of the year imo.

Meh.

Bah! Go back to your lame ass KotOR II...

Fine I will! Superior Story and Characters >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever the **** the Elder Scrolls series has anyway!

*****!

edit: huh, ***** is censored? Since when? And yet wank is allowed. This world, I tell you.

I don't think I will be able to play this game when it comes out.

I shall be far too busy having sex with it.

And here I thought you would be done because you had the trailer

and

Originally posted by General_Iroh
JSRtYpNRoN0



AWESOME!!!

Just read a PC Gamer blurb that Bethesda will be releasing the mod tools along with the game, so that the mod community can go berserk. Great news, imo. Some people bewail such things and want to play the exact game the developers intended. Me, I enjoy modding the hell out of games. Not to cheat, mind you, but to heighten or focus the experience.

My opulent reward-mansion and pet panther are two of my favorite memories from Oblivion, for example, and neither came with the original game. Also, I didn't have scaling enemies like most of you unfortunates.

http://n4g.com/news/clickout/701610

Eesh, Oblivion looks terrible looking back at it...

Originally posted by Digi
Just read a PC Gamer blurb that Bethesda will be releasing the mod tools along with the game, so that the mod community can go berserk. Great news, imo. Some people bewail such things and want to play the exact game the developers intended. Me, I enjoy modding the hell out of games. Not to cheat, mind you, but to heighten or focus the experience.

My opulent reward-mansion and pet panther are two of my favorite memories from Oblivion, for example, and neither came with the original game. Also, I didn't have scaling enemies like most of you unfortunates.



FCOM ftw. (or whatever the individual prefer)

Originally posted by NemeBro
I don't think I will be able to play this game when it comes out.

I shall be far too busy having sex with it.

Trailer was pretty well received on the forums too, in fact the site was down due to flooding moments before the trailer was released lol.

I bet there are quite a bit of things people missed in that trailer. For example we know there are horses, as well as a bard playing a musical instrument, among others goodies like improved lighting in the caves and nirnroot/ninroot.

Pretty solid breakdown video courtesy of IGN. Points out nirnroot, horses, cities, etc.
http://www.ign.com/videos/2011/02/24/skyrim-rewind-theater?objectid=93395

Polearms confirmed

Originally posted by Phanteros
Polearms confirmed

Source?

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Source? http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/02/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-One-in-Each-Hand.jpg

You can wield two shields?

**** YEAH, POWER TO THE TURTLE!

And apparently two spells as well...

FUS RO DAH!

morrowind was better than oblivion in some ways and vice versa. i hope with skyrim they mix the best of both

Originally posted by NemeBro
You can wield two shields?

**** YEAH, POWER TO THE TURTLE!
I hope I'm not the only one who thought of the Samurai Jack scene...

Originally posted by Phanteros
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/02/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-One-in-Each-Hand.jpg

This isn't a source, it's logical speculation.

EDIT- I've been keeping up on the elder scrolls forums and have seen no mention that polearms are confirmed.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
This isn't a source, it's logical speculation.

EDIT- I've been keeping up on the elder scrolls forums and have seen no mention that polearms are confirmed. Yeah your right wasn't checking the game informer. It turns out there be no Pole ares or possibly anything on the above.

Originally posted by Deano
morrowind was better than oblivion in some ways and vice versa. i hope with skyrim they mix the best of both

I agree, I actually preferred Morrowind over Oblivion, but Oblivion did have a few good traits.

morrowind was a lot better actually.

in oblivion the levelling up system was terrible. instead of you playing the game, the game would play you and would only allow you the better items when you character was high enough level wise.

Morrowind on the other hand, you could get the best weapon in the game at level 1, it would be bloody difficult but it was possible. In oblivion the enemies would level up with you, so you wasn't really making much progress.

Thats what i love about morrowind, if you was foolish enough to go to places where you had no right to be, you would get your ass kicked. But at least you had the choice. In oblivion you had your hand held throughout the game.

Missions were a lot harder and challenging in morrowind aswell. they would tell you the details and point you in the general location but after that you was on your own. In oblivion it was the case of going to location, doing mission and coming back for reward. it wasnt hard

The level sclaing of Oblivion- the worst ever seen- was a very common point of criticism that I savaged it for myself. But I am hearing that Skyrim won't be like that- which is not to say no scaling, but surely not to the same insane extent as Oblivion. We shall see.

Maybe I'm just bad at the game but Oblivion kicked my ass. I wouldn't say that it held my hand. More like shoved a bear up my ass.

That's part of the issue with Oblivion's insane level system. You might think that as the world levelled up with you, the difficulty curve would be constant. In fact, though, depending on what primary skills you choose, levelling up could effectively make you weaker because the world powered up more than you did, and hence make the game annoyingly hard for some.

The lengths that people went to AVOID levelling in that game demonstrates how broken the system was.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Yeah your right wasn't checking the game informer. It turns out there be no Pole ares or possibly anything on the above.

Not quite correct, we know from ingame footage that wielding a sword and a magic spell (in either hand at the same time) is going to be featured. I also believe I read somewhere that Bethesda are working on two spells at the same time, making it possible to make combos, but they want to experiment with it first, though I must admit that I see some pretty awesome combos (invisible fireball anyone )

wielding double magic



source: http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/18/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-preview/

I hope they either change the speed of the spells, or have some targeting method in there.....trying to kill a deer with a fireball in Oblivion was such a pain in the ass.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's part of the issue with Oblivion's insane level system. You might think that as the world levelled up with you, the difficulty curve would be constant. In fact, though, depending on what primary skills you choose, levelling up could effectively make you weaker because the world powered up more than you did, and hence make the game annoyingly hard for some.

The lengths that people went to AVOID levelling in that game demonstrates how broken the system was.

Avoiding sleep.

Easy enough, but kind of interfered with immersion.

I still find it somewhat bizarre that people actually like these games. Morrowind is to this day what I consider to be the worst game I've ever played.

Originally posted by Allankles
Avoiding sleep.

Easy enough, but kind of interfered with immersion.

But some of the quests, like the Dark Brotherhood require you to sleep. And the DB quests were the best in the game.

Better than the avalanche of fetch quests that was the Mages Guild anyway.

Yeah, the way that was developed was that you make sure that none of your primary skills are ones that you actually used. You could then increase important skills without the risk of levelling.

As I say, once people are doing that, you know your system is buggered.

I'm not so sure Ush. I read a compelling article recently that brought up Oblivion's leveling system among a few other games, and the point of the article is that immersion in a game world isn't just the developer's responsibility. It's the player's as well. If you want to bug Oblivion's system, that's your thing. Without even being aware of it until recently, I played through the game knowing about such exploits, and never once thought to employ them. It's the roleplayer in me, I suppose.

So really, I feel like the system is only completely broken if such routes are the only things available to you, or if it's in a multiplayer game that favors some players over others (which it obviously isn't). An immesive experience free from exploits is also available, so I see much less fault with the leveling system than some. Anyone can race through a game and beat it in as effecient a manner as possible, Oblivion or otherwise. But the point is to enjoy the games, which then comes down to how you personally interact with the world, as it should be with an RPG.

No, that's unhelpful from any reasonable game design perspective. The levelling system actively does not work correctly. Most players will be forced to play it the crappy way that is default because most players do not mod games or exploit the system in ridiculous ways; they play as they were meant to. And they got shafted because the game is a lesser game as a result of that. Some found it far too easy, some far too hard, and none of that was their fault; it was the fault of bad design. Those who enjoyed powering up their character to meet certain threats got the shaft as well. It actively impeded enjoyment of the game for a LOT of people, when other approaches would not have done this.

Any game which encouraged players to FIGHT the mechanics rather than enjoy them has made a mistake. Any game that leaves other players mystified as to why they got less powerful as they levelled up has made a mistake. And whilst it's not literally a mistake that the scaled levelling means the most powerful weapons and armour in the game can be found on random bandits once you are a high level (rather than in, say, the depths of special dungeons), it's still bloody horrible design.

The levelling system in Oblivion was a cock-up, is widely recognised as a cock-up and is not being used again. If they did use it again, the game would be much worse for it. Trying to excuse it on some sort of "it's the players' responsibly as well" is just not right. It is not the players' responsibility to get the game design right and they have a legitimate expectation that the game should be designed properly. The designers cocked up this system and deserved heavy criticism for it.

Sadly, lie Bioware do these days, they are still using some scaling, but it won't be as truly terrible as the system in Oblivion.

I just wonder how many bugs this game will have.

I'll say at least 20 quest altering bugs.

IIRC it was confirmed there would be a scaling system, only it would be more similar to Fallout 3's rather than Oblivion's.

In Fallout 3 you could go to Old Olney and end up ripped apart by Deathclaws, so I assume it will be much the same in Skyrim. Only the Deathclaw will be a dragon or something.

Did Fallout 3/NV have scaling? I distinictly remember being slaughtered by Deathclaw as a lvl 4, but managing to dispose of several at a time at lvl 16, so somewhere in between a Deathclaw went from instant death ti fair game.

Well honestly I consistently could punch Deathclaws to death by level 10, but yes there was scaling.

I think how it worked was that when you went to a new area, enemies scaled to your level, but they remained fixed at that level. Areas outside that area were not affected.

I also believe some enemies were exempt. Deathclaws IIRC are included under this.

But yeah, it was confirmed level scaling would be "like Fallout 3, not Oblivion."

to those who still dont understand how bad oblivion was compared to morrowind, then read this

http://lvls.wordpress.com/2010/06/03/elder-scrolls-versus-morrowind-vs-oblivion/

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, that's unhelpful from any reasonable game design perspective. The levelling system actively does not work correctly. Most players will be forced to play it the crappy way that is default because most players do not mod games or exploit the system in ridiculous ways; they play as they were meant to. And they got shafted because the game is a lesser game as a result of that. Some found it far too easy, some far too hard, and none of that was their fault; it was the fault of bad design. Those who enjoyed powering up their character to meet certain threats got the shaft as well. It actively impeded enjoyment of the game for a LOT of people, when other approaches would not have done this.

Any game which encouraged players to FIGHT the mechanics rather than enjoy them has made a mistake. Any game that leaves other players mystified as to why they got less powerful as they levelled up has made a mistake. And whilst it's not literally a mistake that the scaled levelling means the most powerful weapons and armour in the game can be found on random bandits once you are a high level (rather than in, say, the depths of special dungeons), it's still bloody horrible design.

The levelling system in Oblivion was a cock-up, is widely recognised as a cock-up and is not being used again. If they did use it again, the game would be much worse for it. Trying to excuse it on some sort of "it's the players' responsibly as well" is just not right. It is not the players' responsibility to get the game design right and they have a legitimate expectation that the game should be designed properly. The designers cocked up this system and deserved heavy criticism for it.

Sadly, lie Bioware do these days, they are still using some scaling, but it won't be as truly terrible as the system in Oblivion.

The point I was originally against was that the system was broken because there were easily defined exploits. And I'll still maintain that that alone isn't nearly enough to make a system bad.

Your point that people simply trying to play the game ended up with it too easy or too hard, however, raises an entirely different issue. When there is a broken experience without deliberately trying to break it, yes, there's a problem.

Points like high-level loot off of bandits is an entirely different matter. We're in complete agreement there. You're talking more about the game, I'm talking about one aspect of it. Yes, various aspects of games are interrelated. But putting good loot in logical places is clearly a separate issue.

So I should have clarified a bit. I'm not against Oblivion's leveling system, flaws and all, because it IS about how you choose to play the game, making it a true RPG. However, only a fool would say it needs no alternations or failsafes in place to make it more enjoyable for the casual gamer. It's a shame it'll likely be scrapped, though, because of the negative reaction. I'm tried of just putting points into a stat after I kill (X) monsters. With any luck, they simply temper their old system with some logical ceilings and blocks in order to prevent such disparity.

And I'll still maintain that immersion is a player's job as much as a developers. Dev's can't anticipate every play style, every gamer. hey give us a template, we explore. Obvious bugs should be fixed, but I honestly think that a game in which exploits are available can be more exciting that one where there isn't since it gives players that option who want it. So long as it isn't so obvious or inavoidable that it affects gamer who don't intend it.

IGN: Is the auto-leveling system from Oblivion that leveled enemies alongside your character returning in Skyrim? If not, will there be a modified version, and what informed the changes in the design?

Todd Howard: We've always had some amount of that in our games, from Arena to Fallout 3. You do need some in a game like this, it's just a matter of how and when you do it. It's clear Oblivion had places it didn't work well. That's something I think we addressed well in Fallout 3, so Skyrim works similarly to Fallout 3. We want peaks and valleys, where sometimes you're really challenged, and other times you feel really powerful. The trick is telling a player in a wide open game, without locking stuff off, that "this area is too hard for you, come back later."

Originally posted by Deano
to those who still dont understand how bad oblivion was compared to morrowind, then read this

http://lvls.wordpress.com/2010/06/03/elder-scrolls-versus-morrowind-vs-oblivion/ I own both.

Both games have their strong suits and weaknesses.

Agreed. The actual combat mechanics and user interface is much better in Oblivion than in Morrowind, which I'm playing right now. Its really annoying having to pause the game, search for the spell I want to use, click it and then unpause, switch to the magic attack stance and cast the spell, every time I want to use and different spell. About as smooth and intuative as a ****ing canonball to the face. But I'm still enjoying combat more and I'm liking the world and missions and shit.

Though **** Cliff Racers. **** them in the ass with a rusty knife.

They are a pest, I agree.

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/skreeeeee0.jpg

I honestly find combat in Oblivion to be much, much, much better than Morrowind.

Cliff Racers are hardcore man. They apparently helped drive dragons to near-extinction. O:

I like the idea in Morrowind that depending on how you used the weapon in combat the amount of damage was also given, for instance thrusting with a hammer nah, bashing with it, oh yes. But generally I agree with NemeBro the combat in Oblivion was better, for my own part because I could use magic on the fly without having to change stand. IIRC you also was incapable of decide when to block you had to raise your sword to block incoming attacks when playing Morrowind .

In Morrowind, blocking was done automatically, with its frequency depending on how high your Block skill was, and your block skill only raised on a successful block. Aka, raising it was stupid, and the mechanics were inferior to Oblivion's.

To be honest, I disliked the whole "Go forward to thrust, stand still to slash, go side to side to hack" thing. Mostly because, sometimes you just want to charge an enemy with a warhammer and beat the shit out of them with it. But in Morrowind, all of the sudden I found myself trying to stab with a hammer.

Originally posted by NemeBro
In Morrowind, blocking was done automatically, with its frequency depending on how high your Block skill was, and your block skill only raised on a successful block. Aka, raising it was stupid, and the mechanics were inferior to Oblivion's.

To be honest, I disliked the whole "Go forward to thrust, stand still to slash, go side to side to hack" thing. Mostly because, sometimes you just want to charge an enemy with a warhammer and beat the shit out of them with it. But in Morrowind, all of the sudden I found myself trying to stab with a hammer.

I was under the impression that it was done when you raised your weapon to strike, but since I played a twohand sword wielding maniac Battlemage shield wasn't really my thing

I agree that the mechanic to perform it was badly executed but the idea itself I found good, I have often found it strange in roleplay that I can damage a guy equally with a thrusting the hammer forward as I can bashing him over the head with it.

Uh, personally, I think that different weapons should just have different attack animations, lol.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Uh, personally, I think that different weapons should just have different attack animations, lol.

Well, if we are lucky we will get that in Skyrim

You know you can make it so that your character only ever does the best attack type right? I agree that the character must be pretty thick to try thrusting with a hammer but you don't need to allow that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You know you can make it so that your character only ever does the best attack type right? I agree that the character must be pretty thick to try thrusting with a hammer but you don't need to allow that. That may be true, but SHUT UP.

Then there is of course the inherent problem in your character having all of one attack animation.

The making of the soundtrack

HoSV1CERCr0

Morrowind just has the best soundtrack in a game, ever.

Sons of Skyrim is the best song I have ever heard in an Elder Scrolls game.

Dovahkiin Dovahkiin
Naal ok zin los vahriin
Wah dein vokul mahfaeraak ahst vaal
Ahrk fin norok paal graan
Fod nust hon zindro zaan
Dovahkiin Fah hin kogaan mu draal

Game Informer cover translation

Dragonborn Dragonborn
By his honor is sworn
To keep evil forever at bay
And the fiercest foes rout
When they hear triumph's shout
Dragonborn for your blessing we pray

And the scrolls have fortold
Of black wings in the cold
That when brothers wage war come unfurled
Alduin, bane of kings
Ancient shadow unbound
With a hunger to swallow the world

Sweet!

So is Alduin Akatosh? I'm not that well versed in the Elder Scrolls gods.

Short answer: Kinda.

Long answer: Alduin is the Nordic interpretation of Akatosh, similar to Akatosh in that he is a draconic deity whose domain is Time, and has been said to be capable of "eating" away the age of mortals. However, it is not known if they are literally the exact same entity, different aspects of one being (Similar to the Sheogorath/Jyggalag deal), or if they are similar, but entirely different beings.

Will have to wait until the game is out to know for sure.

Is there a more fully realized RPG universe than Elder Scrolls? Seriously, with all the literature (in game, mind you, not in novels or some such) and lore, I'm struggling to find an equivalent in gaming that doesn't need to rely on a previous primary medium for support. I'm sure we can find them, but I'm skeptical of finding one if we include only the games in the franchise, not comics, books, etc.

Dragon Age comes pretty close, imo.

Probably not.

The lore present within the Elder Scrolls series, as well as the facts you can observe from the games themselves, create a more vast and developed RPG setting than any I can recall.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The lore present within the Elder Scrolls series

To that I agree, though I think going beyond that we have alot more options, The Witchers for instance, I would also think that Warcraft deserves to be mentioned in some way (even though I hate what they have done with the lore they still have a very developed world)

Never played either.

Though I do want to get around to trying the Witcher. Maybe even being super boss and reading the books.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Never played either.

Though I do want to get around to trying the Witcher. Maybe even being super boss and reading the books. You should you will love it. You might even forget about Dragon Lame in the process.

Ah Phanteros, it's so cute how you seem to believe anyone values what you have to say.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ah Phanteros, it's so cute how you seem to believe anyone values what you have to say. Its so cute that you think I care, dog.


*sniff*

You do.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You do. I don't really.

*sniff*

Any way dragons

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110166-Bethesda-Outs-Skyrim-as-Unlimited-Dragon-Buffet

Good to hear, IMO. I hope fighting dragons will always be a kewl gai.

Although, I still find it strange how much these dragons differ from the red, city-sized dragons from the lore of the game.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Good to hear, IMO. I hope fighting dragons will always be a kewl gai.

Although, I still find it strange how much these dragons differ from the red, city-sized dragons from the lore of the game. I'm not suprised considering Cyrodiil was supposedly to be a jungle rather than a forested area in IV. I guess it could be problems with the engine rendering something that big to fight.