Choose your War

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Rogue Jedi
Some evil dude with magical powers is gonna kill you. Rape you, kill you, gut you, skin you, then eat you. There is one way out of this, an option he gives you.

You must choose a war from the past to fight in, for a period of one year. Obviously he will magically transport you back in time to fight in this war. You will be a lowly private, on the front lines, fighting as an American soldier in the Army. After the year is up, if you are still alive, you will be magically transported to the exact time that you left. You may not use your knowledge of the future to benefit yourself (dadudemon).


Here are your choices of which War to fight in:

American Revolution (You can be a Colonial or Militia)

American Civil War (Which side)

WWI

WWII

Vietnam war



Which war would you choose, and why?

Strangelove
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You may not use your knowledge of the future to benefit yourself. How? it's not like you can forget. Does he remove any memories or knowledge you might have, or is it just a rule that's impossible to follow?

And in my opinion, anyone who threatens to Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Rape you, kill you, gut you, skin you, then eat you. Isn't going to let you go even if you do take his challenge. He's going to go back on his word and kill you anyway. He's a power-mad bloodthirsty wizard, man, how are you going to stop him?

I say just get it over with and kill me, without making live through a year of war first.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Strangelove
How? it's not like you can forget. Does he remove any memories or knowledge you might have, or is it just a rule that's impossible to follow?

And in my opinion, anyone who threatens to Isn't going to let you go even if you do take his challenge. He's going to go back on his word and kill you anyway. He's a power-mad bloodthirsty wizard, man, how are you going to stop him?

I say just get it over with and kill me, without making live through a year of war first. JESUS, dude.......

Strangelove
lol what? sorry I overthink things sometimes.

Rogue Jedi
Remember playing pretend when you were a kid? Apply it here.


And haermm No worries.

Bardock42
On the American side? World War 1, least chance of death.

If I can choose the exact year and front, I'd have to do more research.

Impediment
Just look at Ben Martin from the film, The Patriot. He fought "ungentlemanly" and effing won. Easy Peezy.

Lestov16
Vietnam war
Just a land of straight vice and no morals whatsoever
I would have a lot of fun there http://forums.comicbookresources.com/images/smilies/evilsmile2.gif

dadudemon
American Revolutionary war AND I get to keep my knowledge.

First day, I draw up plans for an APC or Tank.

Day 2, I am taken to George Effin' Washington to have my war machine produced.

Day 3, I create a fabrication process that will greatly speed up the ability to churn out the APCs. We can mount canons to this tank, as well.

Day 20, first tank is complete. It can take on the Red Coats without taking any damage. Yes, we use contemporary fuels to power the tank.


Day 40, we have won all battles it participates in and others move to multiple fronts.


Day 80, I finish my designs for an automatic rifle which includes barrel rifling, FMJ aerodynamic rounds. I also finish the "templates" for making the FMJs and a "purer" form of black powder.

Day 100, I complete plans for an electrical energy infrastructure, which includes power plants.

Day 120, I compile a large list of materials that should or should not be used in housing. I complete central heating and air designs for homes. I also completed designs for farming techniques which includes modern irrigation techniques. I also include plans for making the plants more "hearty" to survive more against insects and droughts.

Day 140, construction on the first powerplants begin. King George III unconditionally surrenders. I offer peaceful solutions for King George III and I demand that he operate in certain manners during the remainder of his reign until 1820.

Day 160, I help write the constitution which avoids the articles of confederation fiasco but includes about 95% of the current constituion and 10 amendments. I avoid the whole slave issues with...

Day 180, my final plans for the cotton Gin, various Combines, and other tools, are completed as well as oil refinery processes. This in combination with modern farming techniques eliminates the need for slaves. Because of this, Africans will be much smaller in number in the modern US, the US will obtain a much more powerful standing in the world far faster than any other nation, etc. However, due to my freedom to the slaves by necessity, we avoid the whole civil rights movements, African Americans enjoy large amounts of freedom and initial subsidies due to our massive surpluses, and the racial economic gap is non-existent in modern times.

Provisions for Native Americans are made and no massacres occur. However, their territories are consolidated and the US expands.

Day 200, constitution finalized, modern currency finalized, light bulb invented (I'll use tungsten), modern mining techniques written up, typewriter invented by myself, assembly line process designed, automobiles designed, work on the transistor started, refrigeration development started, modern chemistry techniques started, immunizations design started, modern surgery techniques started, and flight design started.

Day 140, completion of automobile designs, working logical gates for transistors completed, modern materials fabrication processes completed, surgical techniques successfully completed, first working fling contraption, completed, with a very simple petro based engine (petro derived from my semi-completed oil refinery process), first working light bulbs completed (requires mechanical vacuum creation process), chemistry techniques net independent discoveries (independent of myself), groundwork for modern astrophysics laid out, image capture techniques invented, microscope vastly improved, modern road system started on.

Day 160, first manned flight, oil refinery process almost completed with a crude version of diesel and gasoline derived, petro engine improved and "template" parts created for the assembly line process, my very large transistor invention is created even smaller with some of the material refinement processes I've created through modern chemistry and fabrication techniques, centrifugal applications developed, larger diesel engine designs created to fuse in construction machines, modern construction techniques developed for large buildings, first successful vaccination completed.

Bardock42
And if you had to abide by the rules of the thread?

Rogue Jedi
He doesn't do that.

Bardock42
Well, his plan's good, really, though I doubt it would work. I'm just wondering what he'd choose if he couldn't use his knowledge of the future. If we could, obviously the American Revolutionary War is the smarterst place to start, as there's the most room for improvements.

Rogue Jedi
I thought that too, but man, the VC were vicious.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Bardock42
And if you had to abide by the rules of the thread?



This:

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He doesn't do that.


I refuse to follow rules created in threads posted in the OTF that I do not like. The idea that we have to choose a war we would fight based on our knowledge of that war, but not have knowledge of that war, is a paradox and does not bode well with me. Our memory is wiped once we make our selection and we are transported through time and space to our destination...defeating the entire purpose of the selection to begin with.

RJ and I already had this discussion on the phone, which is why he didn't go ape shit: he already knew how I would treat his proposal.




Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, his plan's good, really, though I doubt it would work. I'm just wondering what he'd choose if he couldn't use his knowledge of the future. If we could, obviously the American Revolutionary War is the smarterst place to start, as there's the most room for improvements.

I suspect that half of the things I try to accomplish will take far longer than a year until I get a massive information center up and going with electricity and typewriters. Once that occurs, then my system will work very rapidly and I'll have to do is dictate
"my" designs.

I will not be the president as that would take up too much time. I would, however, avoid the fiasco of the Articles of Confederation with a more centralized form of government and a singular form of currency. We would also avoid the hundreds of thousands lost during the Civil War, and food and starvation would not be problem. We would avoid the most embarrassing human rights violations in our History: the raping, pillaging, and murder of thousands of Native Americans. We would also start on a modern medicine system many many years before the modern medical system is started. Because of my efforts, it would start he modern computer, electricity and that goodness, food production, human rights foundations, etc.

Changing the Souths opinions of African Americans will be much easier as people were more easily persuadable back then with religion. I have already thought of the accusations of me being a Satanic prophet from my jealous detractors: I know the bible better than most people back then. smile Add in my superior charismatic abilities of persuasion, good looks (lol hahahah...I can't keep from laughing at how retarded this one was), superior physical form with knowledge of the body and nutrition, and my saving hundreds if not millions of lives, and we have a recipe for righteousness being easily passable.

However, I do admit that it would take decades to build up a manufacturing and fabrication system to meet my real goals. I do not, however, believe it to be difficult in the slightest to create designs for war machines and get them up and going in less than 100 days templates are very easy to make, even with 18th century fabrication processes. Once you have templates and a modern assembly line method, fabrication becomes easy. However, designing multiple "machines" would be more difficult as it would take many weeks for each design. Tanks/APCs are much simpler due to their primitive locomotion abilities (treads are much easier to fab than tires...which would take years to reach that point of rubber tires. However, linked treads are really easy to make especially when you have templates and an assembly line ready to assemble.)

Robtard
Originally posted by dadudemon
American Revolutionary war AND I get to keep my knowledge.

First day, I draw up plans for an APC or Tank.



Great; how are you going to power it, jackass?

Do you know how a steam-engine works; the key components necessary? With the tech available to you, this is about the only power-plant you'd be capable of building within a 10 year period; that's being generous.

Edit: I see in you reply to Bardock, you realized the massive time-line you'd need, but your "100 Days" is lunacy, considering the tech of the time.

You'd also create a massive paradox that would likely wipe you from existance, America was created as in in part vy slavery, the pillaging of the Natives etc. Though I doubt much would change, you'd be one voice amoing thousands that want it that way it happened.

Bardock42
I don't know once we talk about magic, I don't see a problem with assuming that we get to keep our knowledge but not use it in the past, for example. The scenario, what war would you fight in as a lowly soldier to save your life, makes sense to me, at least as soon as we talk about psychopathic murderers with godlike powers and an odd sense of humor.

It's fair if you don't want to answer though, it just isn't a paradox, really.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Robtard
Great; how are you going to power it, jackass?

Do you know how a steam-engine works; the key components necessary? With the tech available to you, this is about the only power-plant you'd be capable of building within a 10 year period; that's being generous.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Day 20, first tank is complete. It can take on the Red Coats without taking any damage. Yes, we use contemporary fuels to power the tank.



Originally posted by Robtard
Edit: I see in you reply to Bardock, you realized the massive time-line you'd need, but your "100 Days" is lunacy, considering the tech of the time.

Definitely not. Easily obtainable.


Originally posted by dadudemon
I do not, however, believe it to be difficult in the slightest to create designs for war machines and get them up and going in less than 100 days templates are very easy to make, even with 18th century fabrication processes. Once you have templates and a modern assembly line method, fabrication becomes easy.


Also, it would appear that you are not aware of the "great fuel revolution" of the late 18th century:

http://inventors.about.com/od/lstartinventions/a/lighting.htm


Also, building a small petroleum infrastructure would not be the that difficult with available "technologies:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_well#History



So, indeed, simple distillation processes already existed for hundreds of years before the American Revolutionary war. What I would be doing is creating a massive convergence of technologies, not really inventing new technologies. Because of our modern world and how quickly information travels, you are used to technology convergence at a blistering pace. The 'Great Information Age' is responsible for that.

You would be surprised at how much of a difference one modern person with a moderate amount of knowledge of modern technologies and how they work, could make...much less a nerd for history and technology with a really good memory such as you and I.


Also, one of the most fascinating aspects of "the future" is how much physically stronger and more muscular I would be compared to those of the "18th Century". You yourself would be a superb specimen of almost completely unheard of physical strength and muscular development. Most of our knowledge of physical performance and strength has occurred only in the last 60 years...due largely to our modern medical research systems of controlled studies, peer reviews, and chemistry. Even the last 30 years has seen such an absurd pace of athletic and plain medical discoveries that we are overturning lots of the discoveries of the previous 30 years.



One of the funnest portions of this knowledge transplantation would be computational security. I could encrypt information that would not be decrypt-able until many years after I encrypted them. I do not know how much I would change the future with all of "my" break through's, but it's possible that some elements would remain.

The main goal would be to improve the quality of life as much as possible and leave my mark of "peace" as deeply rooted as possible on history. It would be fun, I think.

Originally posted by Robtard
You'd also create a massive paradox that would likely wipe you from existance, America was created as in in part vy slavery, the pillaging of the Natives etc. Though I doubt much would change, you'd be one voice amoing thousands that want it that way it happened.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Day 180, my final plans for the cotton Gin, various Combines, and other tools, are completed as well as oil refinery processes. This in combination with modern farming techniques eliminates the need for slaves. Because of this, Africans will be much smaller in number in the modern US, the US will obtain a much more powerful standing in the world far faster than any other nation, etc. However, due to my freedom to the slaves by necessity, we avoid the whole civil rights movements, African Americans enjoy large amounts of freedom and initial subsidies due to our massive surpluses, and the racial economic gap is non-existent in modern times.

Provisions for Native Americans are made and no massacres occur. However, their territories are consolidated and the US expands.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Changing the Souths opinions of African Americans will be much easier as people were more easily persuadable back then with religion. I have already thought of the accusations of me being a Satanic prophet from my jealous detractors: I know the bible better than most people back then. smile Add in my superior charismatic abilities of persuasion, good looks (lol hahahah...I can't keep from laughing at how retarded this one was), superior physical form with knowledge of the body and nutrition, and my saving hundreds if not millions of lives, and we have a recipe for righteousness being easily passable.


It would be lunacy to assume that I would be "just one voice among thousands" when it would actually be millions, my brief little adventure would already create massive changes, and I'd be relegated to "just one voice".


Edit -However, I do appreciate the criticism. I've just thought about this much more than you have. What do you think I do in my 30 minute drive to work and back each day? That shit's boring.


Originally posted by Bardock42
It's fair if you don't want to answer though, it just isn't a paradox, really.

No, it is, and I clearly explained how it is.

Thanks, though.

Bardock42
Nah, you are wrong there.

Robtard
Originally posted by Bardock42
It's fair if you don't want to answer though, it just isn't a paradox, really.

If DDM were to do all he says, he would literally change America (for better or worse, don't know), considering he was born in American, there's a very good chance he'd wipe himself out of existence, thereby creating the paradox. If he was never born, how would he travel back in time to then change the past.

But I do see your angle of "we're dealing with magic."

Robtard
Originally posted by dadudemon
Definitely not. Easily obtainable.


Also, it would appear that you are not aware of the "great fuel revolution" of the late 18th century:

http://inventors.about.com/od/lstartinventions/a/lighting.htm


Also, building a small petroleum infrastructure would not be the that difficult with available "technologies:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_well#History



So, indeed, simple distillation processes already existed for hundreds of years before the American Revolutionary war. What I would be doing is creating a massive convergence of technologies, not really inventing new technologies. Because of our modern world and how quickly information travels, you are used to technology convergence at a blistering pace. The 'Great Information Age' is responsible for that.

You would be surprised at how much of a difference one modern person with a moderate amount of knowledge of modern technologies and how they work, could make...much less a nerd for history and technology with a really good memory such as you and I.


Also, one of the most fascinating aspects of "the future" is how much physically stronger and more muscular I would be compared to those of the "18th Century". You yourself would be a superb specimen of almost completely unheard of physical strength and muscular development. Most of our knowledge of physical performance and strength has occurred only in the last 60 years...due largely to our modern medical research systems of controlled studies, peer reviews, and chemistry. Even the last 30 years has seen such an absurd pace of athletic and plain medical discoveries that we are overturning lots of the discoveries of the previous 30 years.



One of the funnest portions of this knowledge transplantation would be computational security. I could encrypt information that would not be decrypt-able until many years after I encrypted them. I do not know how much I would change the future with all of "my" break through's, but it's possible that some elements would remain.

The main goal would be to improve the quality of life as much as possible and leave my mark of "peace" as deeply rooted as possible on history. It would be fun, I think.


It would be lunacy to assume that I would be "just one voice among thousands" when it would actually be millions, my brief little adventure would already create massive changes, and I'd be relegated to "just one voice".


Edit -However, I do appreciate the criticism. I've just thought about this much more than you have. What do you think I do in my 30 minute drive to work and back each day? That shit's boring.


No, it is, and I clearly explained how it is.

Thanks, though.

Not the fuel source, the power-plant to power and move this/these warmachines? Steam, internal combustion, electric etc.

You'd be better off trying to change the way war was fought, ie idiots standing in line and firing, waiting to be shot. Inventing body-armor and cultivating pennicillin.

As the 'changing minds' aspect, I think you're greatly overestimating the pull you'd have on people, those in power and those who would stand to lose from your ideas of change. There were powerful men who wanted slavery, the killing of the Natives so Europeans could expand and build etc, they'd likely just use your war inventions to further what already happened in history, though at a much faster rate.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
Definitely not. Easily obtainable.





Also, it would appear that you are not aware of the "great fuel revolution" of the late 18th century:

http://inventors.about.com/od/lstartinventions/a/lighting.htm


Also, building a small petroleum infrastructure would not be the that difficult with available "technologies:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_well#History



So, indeed, simple distillation processes already existed for hundreds of years before the American Revolutionary war. What I would be doing is creating a massive convergence of technologies, not really inventing new technologies. Because of our modern world and how quickly information travels, you are used to technology convergence at a blistering pace. The 'Great Information Age' is responsible for that.

You would be surprised at how much of a difference one modern person with a moderate amount of knowledge of modern technologies and how they work, could make...much less a nerd for history and technology with a really good memory such as you and I.


Also, one of the most fascinating aspects of "the future" is how much physically stronger and more muscular I would be compared to those of the "18th Century". You yourself would be a superb specimen of almost completely unheard of physical strength and muscular development. Most of our knowledge of physical performance and strength has occurred only in the last 60 years...due largely to our modern medical research systems of controlled studies, peer reviews, and chemistry. Even the last 30 years has seen such an absurd pace of athletic and plain medical discoveries that we are overturning lots of the discoveries of the previous 30 years.



One of the funnest portions of this knowledge transplantation would be computational security. I could encrypt information that would not be decrypt-able until many years after I encrypted them. I do not know how much I would change the future with all of "my" break through's, but it's possible that some elements would remain.

The main goal would be to improve the quality of life as much as possible and leave my mark of "peace" as deeply rooted as possible on history. It would be fun, I think.








It would be lunacy to assume that I would be "just one voice among thousands" when it would actually be millions, my brief little adventure would already create massive changes, and I'd be relegated to "just one voice".


Edit -However, I do appreciate the criticism. I've just thought about this much more than you have. What do you think I do in my 30 minute drive to work and back each day? That shit's boring.




No, it is, and I clearly explained how it is.

Thanks, though.


No. If you leave the front lines, if you go off to make your war machine, you are immediately raped, killed, gutted, skinned then eaten.


You must choose a war from the past to fight in, for a period of one year. Obviously he will magically transport you back in time to fight in this war. You will be a lowly private, on the front lines, fighting as an American soldier in the Army. After the year is up, if you are still alive, you will be magically transported to the exact time that you left. You may not use your knowledge of the future to benefit yourself

dadudemon
Originally posted by Robtard
Not the fuel source, the power-plant to power and move this/these warmachines? Steam, internal combustion, electric etc.

The "power plant"? Why would I need a power plant when I could build a simple engine that uses contemporary fuel sources?

Building a simple engine simple engine is very easy. The armor would not have to be very thick to stop all cannon fire and existing cast iron canons could be melted down to be poured into the templates we made already.

The biggest argument, I think, that you could have legitimately made is, "Where are you going to get your insulative materials for your electric spark?" Easy answer: beeswax and rag...just like other early insulators.

However, I view that argument as the biggest "hole" in my proposal.

Originally posted by Robtard
You'd be better off trying to change the way war was fought, ie idiots standing in line and firing, waiting to be shot. Inventing body-armor and cultivating pennicillin.

As the 'changing minds' aspect, I think you're greatly overestimating the pull you'd have on people, those in power and those who would stand to lose from your ideas of change. There were powerful men who wanted slavery, the killing of the Natives so Europeans could expand and build etc, they'd likely just use your war inventions to further what already happened in history, though at a much faster rate.

After almost single-handedly winning the war, I magically lose all of my accomplishments and my scientific endeavors are nulled when I want to step into the front of the political scene?

That's an odd argument against my proposals. Keep in mind that it was the most militarily successful that had the easiest time entering into politics and that holds partially true, until this day, in the US. Add on top of that my success in science, the positive results it brought, and the obvious humane way I approach human life and I will be unable to keep myself from being legendary among the people. They will listen to me as though I were a demi-god (but we both know that it wouldn't be true). For the most part, much of what I wanted to offer would be for the utmost good of the people, anyway.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Robtard
If DDM were to do all he says, he would literally change America (for better or worse, don't know), considering he was born in American, there's a very good chance he'd wipe himself out of existence, thereby creating the paradox. If he was never born, how would he travel back in time to then change the past.

But I do see your angle of "we're dealing with magic."

Oh no, you are right, that is a paradox, one of the common time travel ones, DDM is just wrong in calling what he described paradoxical.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Bardock42
Nah, you are wrong there.

Nah, definitely not. Don't confuse your lack of understanding and conclusion from that position as correct.

My original reasons for selecting the war would be nulled as soon as my memory would be erased and, therefore, I would not be able to make the selection to begin with. My knowledge is required to make the selection but is not longer present after I make the selection making the selection and transportation pointless because I can no longer make that decision: AKA, I will never go anywhere nor do anything unless I can keep my knowledge AFTER I'm transported.

I did not read the OP but am basing my point on RJ's and my conversation that we somehow apparate ourselves.


If my knowledge is removed after I am transported, then I will become an amnesiac, unable to function or do anything, after the transport, making the selection process futile from the beginning.

The only way to avoid the obvious paradox of making a selection and then not having a selection after your memory is wiped, is allow the memory to stay with the person the whole time. They cannot come back unless they have their memories as they will be unable to apparate.


Of course, we could argue that you would be granted the average knowledge of the average solider from each era AFTER you are transported (by a 3rd party), but that makes the entire exercise no fun. The decisions becomes less of an decision and more of a romantic/sentimental decision. Unless the person approaches the decisions solely based on the probability of death, which really stifles the potential for discussion in this thread as every one's answer would then be the same.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No. If you leave the front lines, if you go off to make your war machine, you are immediately raped, killed, gutted, skinned then eaten.


You must choose a war from the past to fight in, for a period of one year. Obviously he will magically transport you back in time to fight in this war. You will be a lowly private, on the front lines, fighting as an American soldier in the Army. After the year is up, if you are still alive, you will be magically transported to the exact time that you left. You may not use your knowledge of the future to benefit yourself

I would not enter the front lines from day 1 as I would contact my CO and report my awesome ideas before the day 1 battles even began, thus circumventing your very implausible mitigation.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh no, you are right, that is a paradox, one of the common time travel ones, DDM is just wrong in calling what he described paradoxical.

Incorrect. Your lack of understanding is what is wrong here.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon



I would not enter the front lines from day 1 as I would contact my CO and report my awesome ideas before the day 1 battles even began, thus circumventing your very implausible mitigation. That's part of the option given you by the maniac wizard. That you fight on the front lines for one year. If you fail to fulfill your side of the deal, you get raped.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That's part of the option given you by the maniac wizard. That you fight on the front lines for one year. If you fail to fulfill your side of the deal, you get raped.

"I reject your and submit my own."

Bardock42
Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah, definitely not. Don't confuse your lack of understanding and conclusion from that position as correct.

My original reasons for selecting the war would be nulled as soon as my memory would be erased and, therefore, I would not be able to make the selection to begin with. My knowledge is required to make the selection but is not longer present after I make the selection making the selection and transportation pointless because I can no longer make that decision: AKA, I will never go anywhere nor do anything unless I can keep my knowledge AFTER I'm transported.

I agree, eradicating the knowledge would be stupid, good thing the OP didn't suggest that.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I did not read the OP but am basing my point on RJ's and my conversation that we somehow apparate ourselves.

Ah okay, there we go, so you were just wrong cause you didn't read the OP, not cause you don't understand. That's good. I just cut the rest, cause everything after here just continues to show your misunderstanding of the stipulation the OP made and further the one I made in addressing you.

So in conclusion, you may be right in whatever you and RJ have been talking about, you are wrong regarding this thread though.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
"I reject your and submit my own." Then you get raped.











AAAAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!!!

Bardock42
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Then you get raped.











AAAAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!!!

He's behaving a bit silly, he should just say that he doesn't want to answer that scenario, rather than pretending that there is a fundamental flaw with it, when there isn't.

Rogue Jedi
WWII I think. Fighting the Germans in.....France, yeah.

Robtard
Originally posted by dadudemon
The "power plant"? Why would I need a power plant when I could build a simple engine that uses contemporary fuel sources?

Building a simple engine simple engine is very easy. The armor would not have to be very thick to stop all cannon fire and existing cast iron canons could be melted down to be poured into the templates we made already.

The biggest argument, I think, that you could have legitimately made is, "Where are you going to get your insulative materials for your electric spark?" Easy answer: beeswax and rag...just like other early insulators.

However, I view that argument as the biggest "hole" in my proposal.



After almost single-handedly winning the war, I magically lose all of my accomplishments and my scientific endeavors are nulled when I want to step into the front of the political scene?

That's an odd argument against my proposals. Keep in mind that it was the most militarily successful that had the easiest time entering into politics and that holds partially true, until this day, in the US. Add on top of that my success in science, the positive results it brought, and the obvious humane way I approach human life and I will be unable to keep myself from being legendary among the people. They will listen to me as though I were a demi-god (but we both know that it wouldn't be true). For the most part, much of what I wanted to offer would be for the utmost good of the people, anyway.

"Simple engine", come on dude. You're going to need at least 75-100hp, if you want to break 5kmph in that iron juggernaut. It's going to be hard to have smiths cast a block, let alone get the valves, cylinders, cooling and electrical working all working in unison. Even if you went with a compression-engine (diesel) and did away with the electrics, it's still a monumental task considering the tech you have at hand; this is considering you know the blue-prints in how to design one like the back of your hand. Look at the early British tanks, even with 120+ years of advancement in tech ahead of you they were slow, broke down, got stuck often and were dangerous to the crew inside.

No, not lost. But you'd likely be pushed aside; have your ideas taken (cry copy-write all you like) and used to further the "progress" that happened. Now if you went along with slavery and expansionism, you'd likely be seen as the man of the century.

Don't intend to shit on you, just think you're being quite a bit unrealistic.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Bardock42
I agree, eradicating the knowledge would be stupid, good thing the OP didn't suggest that.



Ah okay, there we go, so you were just wrong cause you didn't read the OP, not cause you don't understand. That's good. I just cut the rest, cause everything after here just continues to show your misunderstanding of the stipulation the OP made and further the one I made in addressing you.

So in conclusion, you may be right in whatever you and RJ have been talking about, you are wrong regarding this thread though.

So we are not allowed to use our knowledge that we get to keep after making the decision, so why would we make the decision based on our knowledge, to begin with? Who wants to go into the past to kill other people with a significant risk to the loss of our own life other than a murdering psychopath, as someone pointed out?

Those were rhetorical questions part of the reason I rejected the OP.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Bardock42
He's behaving a bit silly, he should just say that he doesn't want to answer that scenario, rather than pretending that there is a fundamental flaw with it, when there isn't. DDM is my boy. I'll add Scenario two, one can use their knowledge of the future to help themselves.

Weren't there like famous inventors during the American Revolution?

dadudemon
Originally posted by Robtard
"Simple engine", come on dude. You're going to need at least 75-100hp, if you want to break 5kmph in that iron juggernaut. It's going to be hard to have smiths cast a block, let alone get the valves, cylinders, cooling and electrical working all working in unison. Even if you went with a compression-engine (diesel) and did away with the electrics, it's still a monumental task considering the tech you have at hand; this is considering you know the blue-prints in how to design one like the back of your hand. Look at the early British tanks, even with 100+ years of advancement in tech ahead of you they were slow, broke down, got stuck often and were dangerous to the crew inside.

No, not lost. But you'd likely be pushed aside; have your ideas taken (cry copy-write all you like) and used to further the "progress" that happened. Now if you went along with slavery and expansionism, you'd likely be seen as the man of the century.

Don't intend to shit on you, just think you're being quite a bit unrealistic.

Nah, it would not be hard at all. It would be rather easy.

The longest part would be creating the clay originals, but after that, it would be a very fast fabrication process. Plenty of metal to melt down and cast with the templates. That would be the easy part.


I agree that it would be difficult to create the first working "prototype", but after that, it would be very easy to mass produce. I mentioned this in my post, as well.

I also think that you are grossly underestimating the existing engineers of the time. These people are not cavemen. Sure, they were much easier to persuade with religion, back then, and myth and legend were held as higher canon than science and fact for most people.


Also, you mentioned body armor. Not feasible as they are too far advanced for that time period. It would take about a decade or 2 to get to the point of body armor fabrication processes. On top of that, I do not have very much knowledge of how to make Kevlar or other body armor types. Engines are far easier to make, imo. I thought about this for a long time and the armored vehicle with an assembly line process would be the best thing to start on during the ARW as it would provide the greatest advantage. An automatic is not necessary.


Also, I do not believe 75HP is enough. Something close to 150 HP is what I had in mind. That first prototype would probably be much closer to 50 HP, however. That is still more than enough. 5MPH is not what I had in mind. Something closer to 10MPH. no expression


Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
DDM is my boy. I'll add Scenario two, one can use their knowledge of the future to help themselves.

Weren't there like famous inventors during the American Revolution?

lulz

AWESOME!

I love the scenario two.


Scenario 1 has an obvious answer: WWI. That was pointed out already.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah, it would not be hard at all. It would be rather easy.

The longest part would be creating the clay originals, but after that, it would be a very fast fabrication process. Plenty of metal to melt down and cast with the templates. That would be the easy part.


I agree that it would be difficult to create the first working "prototype", but after that, it would be very easy to mass produce. I mentioned this in my post, as well.

I also think that you are grossly underestimating the existing engineers of the time. These people are not cavemen. Sure, they were much easier to persuade with religion, back then, and myth and legend were held as higher canon than science and fact for most people.


Also, you mentioned body armor. Not feasible as they are too far advanced for that time period. It would take about a decade or 2 to get to the point of body armor fabrication processes. On top of that, I do not have very much knowledge of how to make Kevlar or other body armor types. Engines are far easier to make, imo.




lulz

AWESOME!

I love the scenario two.


Scenario 1 has an obvious answer: WWI. That was pointed out already. Dude, you're a lowly Private with zero creditability in the field of creating war machines. What makes you think they won't laugh in your face?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
DDM is my boy. I'll add Scenario two, one can use their knowledge of the future to help themselves.

Weren't there like famous inventors during the American Revolution?

I don't mind him refusing to answer your scenario and answering his own instead, just this silly blabbering about how it is a paradox, and the nonsense explanations for why he's not wrong about it, is a bit stupid.

Originally posted by dadudemon
So we are not allowed to use our knowledge that we get to keep after making the decision, so why would we make the decision based on our knowledge, to begin with? Who wants to go into the past to kill other people with a significant risk to the loss of our own life other than a murdering psychopath, as someone pointed out?

Those were rhetorical questions part of the reason I rejected the OP.

Yes, the scenario is, you get to decide which war you have to fight in for one year as a lowly soldier. That's the whole question, that RJ also brought a murdering psychopath with magic powers into it, is cute but isn't really necessary to be able to answer the question with the given limitations.


But it's good to see we agree with the answers to the scenarios. Scenario 1 WW1, Scenario 2 ARW

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, you're a lowly Private with zero creditability in the field of creating war machines. What makes you think they won't laugh in your face?

The average musclehead would be very shocking to 18th century people.

The physical appearance and the speaking voice alone would produce the results I desired...much less the knowledge.

Robtard
Originally posted by dadudemon
The average musclehead would be very shocking to 18th century people.

The physical appearance and the speaking voice alone would produce the results I desired...much less the knowledge.

They'd regulate you to mule-boy.

Jokes aside, I'd be better to integrate several of those 150hp engines onto warships, equip 3X the amount of cannons, armor plate those puppies and kill the British before they land. IMO.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Robtard
They'd regulate you to mule-boy.

Jokes aside, I'd be better to integrate several of those 150hp engines onto warships, equip 3X the amount of cannons, armor plate those puppies and kill the British before they land. IMO.

It would take much longer to design that for a ship or even an existing ship.

On top of that, the pieces lose 'armor' resiliency if you have to break them up into segments (which you'd have to do because "transportation" of huge plates is not possible with any sort of "good" timie). You can overcome that by doing a dragonmail overlap system but acquiring that much iron in such a small period of time is not very feasible for the American Revolutionaries. Remember, I'm melting down the iron around me to make my APC.

On top of that, you'd have to build a ship sturdy enough to to hold all of that armor and move about fast enough to do anything.


The APC with treads still represents the most feasible option as sufficient enough armor would block pretty much anything that could be thrown at it. A single unit would be enough for most engagements with the British. This is why I selected it.

I still have not thought of a better option other than the APC.


Even making a plane would not be a very good option, I think....but it might be. I'd have to explore that avenue, first. (You'd have to fly out of range of their weapons, but have an explosives delivery system adequate enough to deliver your payload.)

Robtard
I suspect then you're only making a handful of APCs, cos a fleet of them would in turn require vast amount of armor, likely more than equipping a few ships into juggernauts of naval death. Not sure even 10 of these archaic APCs would matter much in the end, war would likely end on a similar time-table as it did.

The multiple engines would move the ship around better than sails during a close battle, besides, they wouldn't have to go out far into the sea, more of a port blockade and most importantly, a moral destroyer for the British.

Hotair ballon would be great too, more for position spying than artillery dropping.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Robtard
I suspect then you're only making a handful of APCs, cos a fleet of them would in turn require vast amount of armor, likely more than equipping a few ships into juggernauts of naval death. Not sure even 10 of these archaic APCs would matter much in the end, war would likely end on a similar time-table as it did.

The multiple engines would move the ship around better than sails during a close battle, besides, they wouldn't have to go out far into the sea, more of a port blockade and most importantly, a moral destroyer for the British.

Hotair ballon would be great too, more for position spying than artillery dropping.

Hot air balloon is a great idea, but I would have to do it the very old and dangerous way of having a damn fire aboard, lol. I know the chinese had natural gas systems in place, but not the Americans: it would take too long to start the natural gas system...and making propone and then pressurizing that into tanks. However, we COULD pressurize it....hmmm...

I'd have to think about the hot air balloon thing, more.


But, yeah, the first gen APC I'd make would be slow, 5-10 Mph. That should be more the sufficient enough, I think, with an escort.


Also, making an automatic would be relatively easy with existing technology, imo.



You know, I COULD make an elaborate system of belts and pulleys (with a fan) to power the APC. It could be all man powered, lol.


But that seems much harder than building my own engine from scratch.

And, no, a single APC that gets about at 10Mph would be more than adequate enough.

Instead of 2 days, it would take me 12 days to travel across most of the US colonies. (1200 miles using existing roads for primary travel. These days, I could cut that time down to 10 days at 10 miles per hour...if I assume I can take the highway.)


Edit -

Here's a nice weight and velocity to HP converter...but that is assuming a perfect system.

http://www.ajdesigner.com/phphorsepower/horsepower_equation_trap_speed_method_horsepower.php

1500 Kg system would take less than 1 HP to move at 10Mph.

I disagree as I think it would take closer to 150 to move things about at the speed I want.


It says for a 2000Kg system, I would need 43 HP to move at 50Mph. 2000kg is getting close to the absolute ceiling for the mass of my APC.

RE: Blaxican
Wow. Another thread ruined. How tragic.

Robtard
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Wow. Another thread ruined. How tragic.

STFU, you'd probably fight for the South in the Civil War.

Rogue Jedi
haermm House nigga.

RE: Blaxican
If they offered me my pick of the North's women, possibly.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
haermm House nigga.

It took me a bit to get what you were talking about.


And then... laughing


You racist bastard.

Robtard
Originally posted by dadudemon
It took me a bit to get what you were talking about.


And then... laughing


You racist bastard.

According to Mr. T, there are three kinds of "niggas". House-Niggas, Field-Niggas and Soldier-Niggas.

His words, not mine. He says he's of the soldier variety.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Robtard
According to Mr. T, there are three kinds of "niggas". House-Niggas, Field-Niggas and Soldier-Niggas.

His words, not mine. He says he's of the soldier variety.
Dang.


I do not know Mr. T well enough to know that stuff.

Link to it? Does he do stand-up or something?

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
Dang.


I do not know Mr. T well enough to know that stuff.

Link to it? Does he do stand-up or something? Mhm, every show he has ever been in.

mikeydude
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Some evil dude with magical powers is gonna kill you. Rape you, kill you, gut you, skin you, then eat you. There is one way out of this, an option he gives you.

You must choose a war from the past to fight in, for a period of one year. Obviously he will magically transport you back in time to fight in this war. You will be a lowly private, on the front lines, fighting as an American soldier in the Army. After the year is up, if you are still alive, you will be magically transported to the exact time that you left. You may not use your knowledge of the future to benefit yourself (dadudemon).


Here are your choices of which War to fight in:

American Revolution (You can be a Colonial or Militia)

American Civil War (Which side)

WWI

WWII

Vietnam war



Which war would you choose, and why?
Alright.
WWII.
For sure. I have always loved the style of fighting, and the reasoning it came with.
Plus the things people went through and had to suffer was absolutely brutal, I would have loved it.

All, in all it was a beautiful war.

~Bun Bun~
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Some evil dude with magical powers is gonna kill you. Rape you, kill you, gut you, skin you, then eat you. There is one way out of this, an option he gives you.


I'd fight in a different war.

First I'd join the "evil dude" and convince him to give me magical powers. After wards I'd be his right hand women to gain his trust. Then with the powers of ectraction or Legilimens I'd find his weakness, then i'd avada kedavra his ass.

If the extraction or Legilimens didn't work on him i'd simply stay on his side until a point i'd join the good guys and still avada kedavra his ass.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by ~Bun Bun~
I'd fight in a different war.

First I'd join the "evil dude" and convince him to give me magical powers. After wards I'd be his right hand women to gain his trust. Then with the powers of ectraction or Legilimens I'd find his weakness, then i'd avada kedavra his ass.

If the extraction or Legilimens didn't work on him i'd simply stay on his side until a point i'd join the good guys and still avada kedavra his ass. wuuuuuuuuut

~Bun Bun~
Shhhh you.

*Immobulus + Engorgio*

naughty

Rogue Jedi
...........................................................................


























wut

~Bun Bun~
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
...........................................................................


























wut

I was making a lol. blink

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by ~Bun Bun~
I was making a lol. blink I know haermm

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