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Dark Empire Palpatine's right hand man vs. the evil clone of Luke Skywalker.

Who wins?

(For simplicities sake we'll say that Luuke has enough autonomy to function without needing C'baoth).

then Luuke.

Originally posted by truejedi
then Luuke.

no

One was a fully trained dark side adept capable of conjuring powerful lightning from the atmosphere and whatnot, and the other is a freshly minted clone.

Methinks Sedriss. In a stomp, not a match.

he had been trained... takes 10 years for clones to grow.

Originally posted by truejedi
he had been trained... takes 10 years for clones to grow.

No, I'm pretty sure C'baoth grew Luuke on his own.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
No, I'm pretty sure C'baoth grew Luuke on his own. C'baoth and Thrawn used Spaarti cloning cylinders. They normally take one year of growth but Thrawn discovered that using Ysalamiri to disconnect someone from the Force enabled them to grow within 15 days. Somehow, C'baoth refrained from using the Ysalamari and Luuke was still grown in a month.


And on topic, Wookiee says this about Sedirss QL: "But his powers were effortlessly deflected by the more powerful Jedi, Luke Skywalker. The Jedi bested Sedriss in combat, utilizing Force push against the Executor effectively."

I believe this is Luke Skywalker two years after the Thrawn trilogy. And Luke circa 9 ABY had a helluva fight against his clone.


I'm going with Luuke.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Somehow, C'baoth refrained from using the Ysalamari and Luuke was still grown in a month.


And on topic, Wookiee says this about Sedirss QL: "But his powers were effortlessly deflected by the more powerful Jedi, Luke Skywalker. The Jedi bested Sedriss in combat, utilizing Force push against the Executor effectively."

I believe this is Luke Skywalker two years after the Thrawn trilogy. And Luke circa 9 ABY had a helluva fight against his clone.


I'm going with Luuke.

Luke came quite a long way in those two years, going from struggling with month-old clones to dueling Palpatine himself, so I'd say that's not a very sensible approach.

Sedriss wins.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
Luke came quite a long way in those two years, going from struggling with month-old clones to dueling Palpatine himself, so I'd say that's not a very sensible approach.

Sedriss wins. "Effortlessly" deflected. Unless Luke discovered how to ascend to the next level of Super Saiyan in two years of doing nothing and being trained by no one... by your approach he should be ass kicking Palpatine's sparkly new clone. And considering he defeated Vader who's 80% of RotJ Palpatine...

I'll address this soon, you grouchy Canadian sumbitch.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
Luke came quite a long way in those two years, going from struggling with month-old clones to dueling Palpatine himself, so I'd say that's not a very sensible approach.

Sedriss wins.

This only doesn't make sense if you assume the clone sucks. Obviously the assumption is shared.

As we have established that Luuke was created in a month's time, the idea that he has been sufficiently trained to pose a threat to the likes of Sedriss, a fully trained dark side adept, is unconvincing. Furthermore, the use of Wookieepedia's liberal narrative doesn't constitute itself as proof. I don't have a copy of Dark Empire on hand and, from the sounds of it, neither do you.

As far as Luke's progression of power goes, his abilities increased dramatically in that time. Aggressive use of the Force and his continued development afforded him power well beyond what we saw him do in TTT.

Just going on the source material.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
As we have established that Luuke was created in a month's time, the idea that he has been sufficiently trained to pose a threat to the likes of Sedriss, a fully trained dark side adept, is unconvincing. Furthermore, the use of Wookieepedia's liberal narrative doesn't constitute itself as proof. I don't have a copy of Dark Empire on hand and, from the sounds of it, neither do you.

As far as Luke's progression of power goes, his abilities increased dramatically in that time. Aggressive use of the Force and his continued development afforded him power well beyond what we saw him do in TTT.

Just going on the source material. So the fact that Sedriss, the most powerful Dark Sider except for Palpatine couldn't even get a Force Grip on Luke means no nevermind to you? Yeah sorry, but the two year quantum leap of improvement in an untrained Jedi doesn't fly. According to your "curbstomp" conclusion, Luke's abilities were matched in his fight with his clone, but two years later effortlessly repels a telekinetic attack by a person who would have "curbstomped" the clone?

But yeah, you're right. An unexplained gigantic leap in power is far more likely than Sedriss just not being good enough.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So the fact that Sedriss, the most powerful Dark Sider except for Palpatine couldn't even get a Force Grip on Luke means no nevermind to you? Yeah sorry, but the two year quantum leap of improvement in an untrained Jedi doesn't fly. According to your "curbstomp" conclusion, Luke's abilities were matched in his fight with his clone, but two years later effortlessly repels a telekinetic attack by a person who would have "curbstomped" the clone?

But yeah, you're right. An unexplained gigantic leap in power is far more likely than Sedriss just not being good enough.

You're being surprisingly bitchy. Be nice. Again, I'm just going by the source material. If you don't like it, we can just agree to disagree.

Edit: Prove that the deflection was effortless.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
You're being surprisingly bitchy. Be nice. Again, I'm just going by the source material. If you don't like it, we can just agree to disagree.

Edit: Prove that the deflection was effortless. If you hear a b*tchy attitude in my word inside your head, go tell yourself off, not me.

And I can't prove it was effortless. I can't prove it happened. I can't prove that Dark Empire even took place. So help me out here, would ya? Could you correct my mistake and prove that it took a great deal of effort so as to make Sedriss look good?

From the other thread,

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
As we have established that Luuke was created in a month's time, the idea that he has been sufficiently trained to pose a threat to the likes of Sedriss, a fully trained dark side adept, is unconvincing.

This is not an unsupported claim. Starkiller was an anomaly, a highly potent, primal Force user who demonstrates powers well beyond Luuke and Luke (as of the Thrawn Trilogy). Starkiller is the exception, not the rule. If you intend to prove that Luuke's lack of training isn't an obstacle, you would need to provide evidence that he demonstrates extraordinary power on par with a fully trained dark side adept.

So yes, what I said is perfectly true and perfectly valid: I didn't find your argument convincing.

And I did it without being mean. So be nice.

plz

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
From the other thread,



This is not an unsupported claim. Starkiller was an anomaly,Uh-huh.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
a highly potent, primal Force user who demonstrates powers well beyond Luuke and Luke (as of the Thrawn Trilogy).He's powerful enough to defeat 2 BBY Vader, not powerful enough to then kill him in his gigantic kamikaze blast. Luke mean time, also defeated Vader. Six years later. Five years after that he meets a near match in his clone. Five years. That means Luke's a god by now. After all, it's you who said that the fraction of one year of Dark tutelage propelled Luke from barely mtaching his clone (remember Luuke, the guy who would get curbstomped by Sedriss?) to easily repelling and shrugging off Sedriss. My God. Definitely couldn't be that Sedriss (remember him? That guy who was passed over for Sith apprentice for Luke, that guy who had a rough time with his clone?) is just not good enough.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
from Starkiller is the exception, not the rule. If you intend to prove that Luuke's lack of training isn't an obstacle, you would need to provide evidence that he demonstrates extraordinary power on par with a fully trained dark side adept.And you need to provide evidence that Starkiller is the exception.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
So yes, what I said is perfectly true and perfectly valid: I didn't find your argument convincing.That's because you're an idiot.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
And I did it without being mean. So be nice.

plz Whoops.

I win!

You've been a great source of entertainment. Feel free to come back when you're not trying to steal Borborad's schtick.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf


I win!

You've been a great source of entertainment. Feel free to come back when you're not trying to steal Borborad's schtick. Now how about you stop your one-trick act of quoting Wookieepedia as a fallible source and provide some evidence of your own. After all, if you're going to defeat my baseless points, you need... what's it called? Hmmm... evidence! That thing I don't have and you must have in abundance. Why else would you be so cocky?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Now how about you stop your one-trick act of quoting Wookieepedia as a fallible source and provide some evidence of your own.

Wookieepedia is not a valid source, so calling you out on using it is perfectly valid. I am right, you are wrong, and no personal tragedy you've apparently suffered in the past 24 hours can ever change that.



You're so terribly moody.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
Wookieepedia is not a valid source, so calling you out on using it is perfectly valid. I am right, you are wrong, and no personal tragedy you've apparently suffered in the past 24 hours can ever change that. So you think that because I can't provide a source for my claim, that you don't need to provide one for yours? Yeah, nice try.



Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
You're so terribly moody. And you're still an idiot.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So you think that because I can't provide a source for my claim, that you don't need to provide one for yours? Yeah, nice try.

So you think that your deflection will make a difference? I've already said, Sedriss is a fully trained dark side adept and Palpatine's trusted lieutenant and is apparently capable of conjuring lightning from the atmosphere and wielding it against Jedi, even the ancient Ood Bnar. His very limited feats still outstrip the month-old Luuke Skywalker.



Good, use your aggressive feelings boy. Let the hate flow through you!

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
So you think that your deflection will make a difference? I've already said, Sedriss is a fully trained dark side adept and Palpatine's trusted lieutenantSo was Dooku, but he was passed for an apprentice "far stronger and more powerful."

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
and is apparently capable of conjuring lightning from the atmosphere and wielding it against Jedi, even the ancient Ood Bnar. His very limited feats still outstrip the month-old Luuke Skywalker.That month old Luuke gave his progenitor a run for his money. Sedriss didn't.



Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
Good, use your aggressive feelings boy. Let the hate flow through you! It's called dopamine, and it's more of a trickle.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So was Dooku, but he was passed for an apprentice "far stronger and more powerful."

An inaccurate comparison. Anakin Skywalker was the beneficiary of a decade of rigorous training at the Jedi temple and the battle experience afforded by three years of galactic warfare.

Luuke lacks both.









Nah, I know you and you hardly ever get this worked up.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
An inaccurate comparison. Anakin Skywalker was the beneficiary of a decade of rigorous training at the Jedi temple and the battle experience afforded by three years of galactic warfare.

Luuke lacks both. And yet still challeneged the man who defeated Darth Vader (plus his five years of Double-XP). Sedriss didn't.












Nah, I know you and you hardly ever get this worked up. And I do... don't? Know you. And you hardly...

Actually if this isn't Gideon than you probably would be this... whatever this is.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Sedriss didn't.

According to what canon source?

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
According to what canon source? Damn that's right. You have a copy of Dark Empire on hand to prove me wron--


Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
I don't have a copy of Dark Empire on handOh.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Damn that's right. You have a copy of Dark Empire on hand to prove me wron--


Oh.

So, you make a contention and I have to... disprove it?

Interesting.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
So, you make a contention and I have to... disprove it?

Interesting. Nope, my assertion doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Could you prove that yours does please?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Nope, my assertion doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Could you prove that yours does please?

Which one, again? Sedriss summons atmospheric lightning in his battle with Ood Bnar as depicted in Dark Empire II. The same source shows him rather handily crushing Palpatine's saboteurs, who are dark side magicians. The Dark Side Sourcebook says he "underwent extensive training under the Emperor, learning to wield power the way the Emperor himself did."

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
Which one, again? Sedriss summons atmospheric lightning in his battle with Ood Bnar as depicted in Dark Empire II. The same source shows him rather handily crushing Palpatine's saboteurs, who are dark side magicians. The Dark Side Sourcebook says he "underwent extensive training under the Emperor, learning to wield power the way the Emperor himself did." I believe that 100%. Just provide the source that shows Sedriss giving Luke a challenge. Do that and someone can log in to Wookieepedia and edit Sedriss' page so that it no longer says:


"Sedriss... utilized Force choke... Skywalker was able to block it."


this:


"Lightsabers at the ready, the two dark side adepts engaged the two Jedi. Goir was sliced in two by Solusar, and Sedriss was sent hurtling back by a Force push from Skywalker."


and


"Palpatine regarded Sedriss as only moderate in his ability to wield to the Force, and decided not to train the Executor as a Sith apprentice... his powers were effortlessly deflected by the more powerful Jedi, Luke Skywalker. The Jedi bested Sedriss in combat, utilizing Force push against the Executor effectively."


If there's one thing I will not stand it's completely false statements on a Wiki.

I never said he did give Luke a challenge. I just don't like casual use of Wookieepedia; it's not a canon source, especially for something other than figures and statistics.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
I never said he did give Luke a challenge. I just don't like casual use of Wookieepedia; it's not a canon source, especially for something other than figures and statistics. Duh.

But I'll take their fallible, quasi-cited information over a complete lack of any available material (that we aren't presently giving) any day. Lesser of two evils, if you will.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Duh.

But I'll take their fallible, quasi-cited information over a complete lack of any available material (that we aren't presently giving) any day. Lesser of two evils, if you will.

All I heard was blah blah blah, I'mLucien is stupid and Canadian.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
All I heard was blah blah blah, I'mLucien is stupid and Canadian. All I heard was... epic music from the Evony banner. No wait, that's just the theme song that happens when I sneeze.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
All I heard was... my own immodest orgasm at how amazing Grahf is.

Wow, really?

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
Cock! For me! Now! Sit Ubu, sit.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Sit Ubu, sit.



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