PR Beyonder, Kubik & Molecule Man vs. Lucifer, Arcangel Michael & Spectre

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byrdgang21
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/5586/488814-be1_super.jpg
http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/thumb/9/94/Kubik.jpg/406px-Kubik.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/Molecule_Man.jpg

VS.

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/dc022003/big/LuciferCVR35.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/58399/1173891-742761_heaven4_super.jpg
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/TOTU-Cv8_solicit.jpg

Uriel005
PR Beyonder Solos

quanchi112
Originally posted by Uriel005
PR Beyonder Solos Definitely.

Mindset
Originally posted by Uriel005
PR Beyonder Solos

The Dark Cloud
Beyonder kills everybody

Galan007
Team 2.

shokosugi
Team 2

Whitemancame
PR Beyonder Solos

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
Team 2. How ?

TheTyrant
Beyonder solos.

Uriel005
Only chance team two has is Spectre with full backing and even then it's debatable as Kubik is still more than enough to solo Lucifer and Michael on a neutral ground leaving Spectre to face off against Beyonder and Molecule Man.

iceman24567
Team two

BullwinkleMoose
Kubik has no chance against either Michael or Lucifer. They would laugh at Kubik.

quanchi112
Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
Kubik has no chance against either Michael or Lucifer. They would laugh at Kubik. Did you read lucy at all ?

Uriel005
Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
Kubik has no chance against either Michael or Lucifer. They would laugh at Kubik. On Neutral Ground I think he does quite well against the pair.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Uriel005
On Neutral Ground I think he does quite well against the pair. I don't think so he's a low level abstract at best erm

BullwinkleMoose
Michael is the 2nd strongest being in his Universe whereas Kubik says even Celestials Dwarf his own power.

Xplosive
Team 1 easily.

quanchi112
Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
Michael is the 2nd strongest being in his Universe whereas Kubik says even Celestials Dwarf his own power. Being the second strongest being in the universe is terrible logic.

BullwinkleMoose
Maybe according to you. Michael could beat 100 Kubik's he is so far above him.

quanchi112
Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
Maybe according to you. Michael could beat 100 Kubik's he is so far above him. By your logic the second most powerful character in archie can beat Galactus.

BullwinkleMoose
I never said anything about Archie, I am talking DC and Marvel. Michael would also beat Galactus.

quanchi112
Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
I never said anything about Archie, I am talking DC and Marvel. Michael would also beat Galactus. Your logic was the second most powerful character which means nothing and I used archie as an example to illustrate my point.

Xplosive
PR Beyonder>Michael+Lucifer

Space M ummy
Originally posted by Xplosive
PR Beyonder>Michael+Lucifer

I usually hate these threads, but this is pretty accurate. "second most powerful character in your universe" doesn't really stack up well next to "a quintillion times more powerful than the sum total of the universe combined."

outside of the writer literally breaking out a giant eraser looney-tunes style, there isn't really a good way to debate against PR beyonder.

Uriel005
Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
I never said anything about Archie, I am talking DC and Marvel. Michael would also beat Galactus.

Really now What the f**k?

Black bolt z
PR beyonder shit stomps everyone on the field at the same time.

Unless spectre has full backing.

Uriel005
Even then Spectre did get stomped by Michael trying to get Corrigan's soul back

BullwinkleMoose
Originally posted by Xplosive
PR Beyonder>Michael+Lucifer


Nobody is debating this against PR Beyonder. We are debating Michael vs Kubik. Kubik and Molecule Man are irrelevant since Lucifer and Michael Spite either of them.

Since Galactus was brought up, either Michael or Lucifer would beat Galactus.

Xplosive
Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
We are debating Michael vs Kubik.

I actually agree. I think Michael is so above Kubik, that it's already ridiculous.

Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
Since Galactus was brought up, either Michael or Lucifer would beat Galactus.

I think so.

Galan007
I'm curious what people think Beyonder is going to do here? Lucifer (and Mike) have already tanked a multiversal big bang at ground zero -- and I've never once seen Beyonder generate even that type of offensive force. /shrug

bbrem123
team 1 stomp thanks to PR beyonder

TheTyrant
Originally posted by Galan007
I'm curious what people think Beyonder is going to do here? Lucifer (and Mike) have already tanked a multiversal big bang at ground zero -- and I've never once seen Beyonder generate even that type of offensive force. /shrug

Wait what? It was said Beyonder that was millions of times more powerful than everything in the Marvel universe combined. As for the feat you wanted, he easily shattered Molecule Man's dome which was stronger than the entire multi-verse (MM had put all his power into it and he was clearly more powerful than everybody else other than the LT in MU).

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Wait what? It was said Beyonder that was millions of times more powerful than everything in the Marvel universe combined. As for the feat you wanted, he easily shattered Molecule Man's dome which was stronger than the entire multi-verse (MM had put all his power into it and he was clearly more powerful than everybody else other than the LT in MU). team 2 stomp, lucifer and micheal are the second most powerful being in DCU's totality, the only one who surpass them in power is GOD/Presence

a fully backed spectre got wtf pawned by micheal

TheTyrant
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
team 2 stomp, lucifer and micheal are the second most powerful being in DCU's totality, the only one who surpass them in power is GOD/Presence

a fully backed spectre got wtf pawned by micheal

And PR Beyonder was and to this day still is the most powerful character in Marvel history.

When was it said that the Spectre was fully backed when Michael made a joke out of him?

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by TheTyrant
And PR Beyonder was and to this day still is the most powerful character in Marvel history. TOAA>PR Beyonder

TheTyrant
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
TOAA>PR Beyonder

TOAA isn't a character. A character is someone who appears in the story, not the dude who exists irl and writes it,

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by TheTyrant
TOAA isn't a character. A character is someone who appears in the story, not the dude who exists irl and writes it, he actually has been shown a couple times, he even appeared in a spiderman comic once

its also in Living Tribunals bio that he only follows orders from TOAA

TheTyrant
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
he actually has been shown a couple times, he even appeared in a spiderman comic once

its also in Living Tribunals bio that he only follows orders from TOAA

Are you referring to the hobo who comes to Spiderman trying to make him feel better about his aunt being sick?

Galan007
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Wait what? It was said Beyonder that was millions of times more powerful than everything in the Marvel universe combined. And it was "said" that Lucifer's power was second only to God's.

Statements = statements.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
As for the feat you wanted, he easily shattered Molecule Man's dome which was stronger than the entire multi-verse (MM had put all his power into it and he was clearly more powerful than everybody else other than the LT in MU). Shattering MM's dome... That's the best you can come up with? srsly

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Are you referring to the hobo who comes to Spiderman trying to make him feel better about his aunt being sick? iirc yea, that was god

TheTyrant
Originally posted by Galan007
And it was "said" that Lucifer's power was second only to God's.

Statements = statements.

I didn't try to take that away from him. Though is it not a fact that Michael = Lucifer in power?



And what's wrong with that? Molecule Man >>> multi-verse and Beyonder >>>>>>>> Molecule Man's dome which was reinforced by all of his power.

Also, what about this instance?

http://img84.imageshack.us/i/beyonderdestructionacrossmultiversesf2.jpg/
http://img147.imageshack.us/i/beyonderdestructionacrossmultiverse2gv0.jpg/

Another showing that puts them both at the top of the food chain.

TheTyrant
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
iirc yea, that was god

When was it said that he was TOAA? iirc, he only appeared to be all-knowing and stuff.

Galan007
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Also, what about this instance?

http://img84.imageshack.us/i/beyonderdestructionacrossmultiversesf2.jpg/
http://img147.imageshack.us/i/beyonderdestructionacrossmultiverse2gv0.jpg/

Another showing that puts them both at the top of the food chain. Repairing multiversal damage is certainly a good feat, but I don't get what it's supposed to represent?

TheTyrant
Originally posted by Galan007
Repairing multiversal damage is certainly a good feat, but I don't get what it's supposed to represent?

Beyonder was the one who damaged the multi-verse in the first place was he not?

iceman24567
The Beyonder hype is astounding

TheTyrant
Also, if Lucifer is only second to god, and Michael is his equal, then how come Sandalpon was able to stab the crap out of an amped Michael in Children and Monsters (iirc) and then chain his ass?

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Also, if Lucifer is only second to god, and Michael is his equal, then how come Sandalpon was able to stab the crap out of an amped Michael in Children and Monsters (iirc) and then chain his ass? im pretty sure there was some context behind that

i remeber lucifer got his heart stabbed and removed only to warp it to being that persons own heart

Galan007
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Beyonder was the one who damaged the multi-verse in the first place was he not? Uhuh, but I still don't see your point. Beyonder damaged the multiverse. Lucifer was completely unfazed by a multiversal big bang to the face. Imo, one feat seems > the other.

Regardless though, it's not something I'm going to debate much... Beyonder threads always turn bad, it seems.

TheTyrant
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
im pretty sure there was some context behind that

i remeber lucifer got his heart stabbed and removed only to warp it to being that persons own heart

I was just asking. Not trying to use that showing, just honestly wanting to know how it happened.

TheTyrant
Originally posted by Galan007
Uhuh, but I still don't see your point. Beyonder damaged the multiverse. Lucifer was completely unfazed by a multiversal big bang to the face. Imo, one feat seems > the other.

Regardless though, it's not something I'm going to debate much... Beyonder threads always turn bad, it seems.

Can you tell me when did Lucifer tank a multi-versal big bang to the face?

Galan007
^ Book #13 of his series. I've posted the scans a bunch of times.

I forgot to mention that Lucifer was the one who warped those raw big bang energies into a physical creation/multiverse.

Naija boy
Beyonder ftw

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Can you tell me when did Lucifer tank a multi-versal big bang to the face? right after he created it

TheLordofMurder
Classic Beyonder owns Luicifer like a bad habit...

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Classic Beyonder owns Luicifer like a bad habit... based on what?

iceman24567
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
based on what? Hyperbole

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by iceman24567
Hyperbole

I say thee nay!!

Based on him being stated to be millions of times more powerful than everything else in Marvel combined (with the exception of Classic Molecule Man of course)...

Unless you have proof that it was all hyperbole...

smile

iceman24567
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I say thee nay!!

Based on him being stated to be millions of times more powerful than everything else in Marvel combined (with the exception of Classic Molecule Man of course)...

Unless you have proof that it was all hyperbole...

smile Do i have proof hyperbole is hyperbole? No i don't sir sad

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by iceman24567
Do i have proof hyperbole is hyperbole? No i don't sir sad

Well its not hyperbole then!

Happy Dance

supremthor
There should be some kind law in KMC were prof is required when make outright statements, Kinda why i have been on comicvine more nowdays, there they at least back up their statements with scans.

zopzop
PR Beyonder was the most powerful being in Marvel comics, EVER.

There is no debating it. He was said to be more powerful than the entire multiverse combined and then some.

When Mephisto hatched a plan to kill him, he had Eternity manning a weapon that had some of the Beyonder's residual energy plus every cosmic in the multiverse (yes including the LT) adding their power to it. And still he wasn't even sure it would faze the Beyonder.

The "Beyondverse" was so infinite it was said our entire multiverse was like a drop of water in the ocean in comparison to it. And Beyonder was the totality of the "Beyondverse" incarnate.

Lucifer, Michael, the Presence, Spectre, the LT, all of them combined die horribly vs the Pre Retcon Beyonder.

BullwinkleMoose

TheTyrant
Originally posted by iceman24567
Do i have proof hyperbole is hyperbole? No i don't sir sad

Then I guess Lucifer didn't really create a multi-verse as it was just Lucifer running his mouth.

iceman24567
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Then I guess Lucifer didn't really create a multi-verse as it was just Lucifer running his mouth. Yes of course that must be the case

Prep-Man
Lucifer is king of cosmic beings. Even if he were overpowered , he is smarter than all of these punks put together. Even on DC's list.

zopzop

iceman24567
Hyperbole is hyperbole is hyperbole

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by zopzop
What hyperbole? ALL the multiversal powers were as nothing before PR Beyonder. They themselves admitted it. those guys are nothing to lucifer or micheal....

zopzop
Dude PR Beyonder's t#tfit wrecked multiversal damage. MM repaired it by merely lifting a finger.

MM let loose a blast that would have "slagged several thousand" dimensions point blank in the Beyonder's face, with the Beyonder taken completely by suprise, yet it didn't even faze him.

Lucifer/Michael/Spectre AND their superior get stomped by PR Beyonder.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by zopzop
Dude PR Beyonder's t#tfit wrecked multiversal damage. MM repaired it by merely lifting a finger.

MM let loose a blast that would have "slagged several thousand" dimensions point blank in the Beyonder's face, with the Beyonder taken completely by suprise, yet it didn't even faze him.

Lucifer/Michael/Spectre AND their superior get stomped by PR Beyonder.

++

iceman24567
Originally posted by zopzop
Dude PR Beyonder's t#tfit wrecked multiversal damage. MM repaired it by merely lifting a finger.

MM let loose a blast that would have "slagged several thousand" dimensions point blank in the Beyonder's face, with the Beyonder taken completely by suprise, yet it didn't even faze him.

Lucifer/Michael/Spectre AND their superior get stomped by PR Beyonder. Originally posted by Galan007
Uhuh, but I still don't see your point. Beyonder damaged the multiverse. Lucifer was completely unfazed by a multiversal big bang to the face. Imo, one feat seems > the other.

Regardless though, it's not something I'm going to debate much... Beyonder threads always turn bad, it seems. The latter is more impressive erm

Galan007

zopzop
PR Beyonder, according to the writers themselves, was "God before Genesis".

The freaking Presence isn't even the most powerful being in DC. What about the Primal Monitor? If this was Primal Monitor vs PR Beyonder then we'd have a fight. But as it is now, the Presence would get stomped along with all his creation.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by zopzop
PR Beyonder, according to the writers themselves, was "God before Genesis".

The freaking Presence isn't even the most powerful being in DC. What about the Primal Monitor? If this was Primal Monitor vs PR Beyonder then we'd have a fight. But as it is now, the Presence would get stomped along with all his creation.

There is no proof that the PM is more powerful than the Presence or vice versa.

TheTyrant
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
those guys are nothing to lucifer or micheal....

LT is nothing to Lucifer or Michael?

Colossus-Big C
wtf is with this wankage? both micheal and lucifer have multiversal level feats , heck even mxy has OMNIVERSAL FEATS, mxy would destroy beyonder universe .and he is not on there leve. lucifer soloes team 1

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by TheTyrant
LT is nothing to Lucifer or Michael? LT would get the same treatment fully backed spectre got

TheTyrant
Yea, I'm done. Beyonder solos.

Colossus-Big C
Lucifer soloes

iceman24567
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Lucifer soloes

zeel
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
he actually has been shown a couple times, he even appeared in a spiderman comic once

its also in Living Tribunals bio that he only follows orders from TOAA


I believe TOAA made galactus shit his pants by one shooting multiple celestials at one time.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by zeel
I believe TOAA made galactus shit his pants by one shooting multiple celestials at one time. When was this?

Galan007
Originally posted by zeel
I believe TOAA made galactus shit his pants by one shooting multiple celestials at one time. That would be Thanos /w/ THOTI.

quanchi112
Originally posted by iceman24567
The Beyonder hype is astounding Seriously ? Michael was stabbed by Sandalphon and taken prisoner quite easily. Lucy also was less powerful than him and was certainly beatable. Beyonder doesn't have the weaknesses these two have nor 1/1000 the power.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
I'm curious what people think Beyonder is going to do here? Lucifer (and Mike) have already tanked a multiversal big bang at ground zero -- and I've never once seen Beyonder generate even that type of offensive force. /shrug Yet a spear defeated Michael ? I have already explained Michael is the power to create. This feat doesn't translate into anything less than can't hurt these guys if you actually read the series you'd realize they weren't these unstoppable beings.

Stall_19
Beyonder solos

bbrem123
why put PR beyonder in a vs thread...so pointless

Galan007
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yet a spear defeated Michael ? I have already explained Michael is the power to create. This feat doesn't translate into anything less than can't hurt these guys if you actually read the series you'd realize they weren't these unstoppable beings. Ah I didnt read the series because I pointed out an uber feat? Interesting.

By that 'logic' I might assume that you didn't read the series because you pointed out a low showing that occured while Lucifer was not at full power, without specifying such.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yet a spear defeated Michael ? I have already explained Michael is the power to create. This feat doesn't translate into anything less than can't hurt these guys if you actually read the series you'd realize they weren't these unstoppable beings. Lke thanos being "unstoppable" kinda

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
Ah I didnt read the series because I pointed out an uber feat? Interesting.

By that 'logic' I might assume that you didn't read the series because you pointed out a low showing that occured while Lucifer was not at full power, without specifying such. What does someone spearing Michael have to do with Lucy ?

Did you even read my post ?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Lke thanos being "unstoppable" kinda When did I say he was unstoppable ?

Galan007
Originally posted by quanchi112
Did you even read my post ? Rarely do. Pride myself in that, actually.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
Rarely do. Pride myself in that, actually. So then when did I mention Lucy being beaten at all ? Michael wasn't depowered yet sandolphon easily owned him with one spear thrust. Do you think sandolphon can spear the beyonder into submission ?

Galan007
Originally posted by quanchi112
So then when did I mention Lucy being beaten at all ? Just now.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
Just now. I see you realized you were wrong and I was right about the facts I presented. Sandalphon's spear isn't more powerful than the explosion lucy molded into his own.

The funny thing is you are arguing like carver taking one feat of Gladiators like tanking a galaxy buster and acting like anything else can't hurt him despite characters far less doing so just like with gladiator.

This is why feat arguing for the most part ignores how these characters are portrayed.

Galan007
Nah, I'm just ignoring you in general (debates you're involved in tend to annoy me.) I'd be more than happy to debate with someone else though. smile

Xplosive
Originally posted by Galan007
Lucifer was completely unfazed by a multiversal big bang to the face.

And so was Beyonder unfazed by the power that was greater than all of others combined.
If MM could do such offensive attack, what to say about PR Beyonder.

Originally posted by Galan007
I forgot to mention that Lucifer was the one who warped those raw big bang energies into a physical creation/multiverse.

And Beyonder did what Lucifer+Michael had to do together, but on a much larger scale, since his realm was so much bigger than all others combined.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
those guys are nothing to lucifer or micheal....

Lucifer or Michael on their own against LT, I really doubt LT is nothing to them.

And fully backed Spectre would mean a full power from The Presence, which would mean that Lucifer or Michael wouldn't be above him.
But Spectre was never fully backed up with the full power of The Presence.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
Nah, I'm just ignoring you in general (debates you're involved in tend to annoy me.) I'd be more than happy to debate with someone else though. smile My logic is sound and you know it. You argue for these characters like carver is to glads. One feat--clinging to it and dismissing far less hurting or beating them on panel.

Galan007
Originally posted by Xplosive
And so was Beyonder unfazed by the power that was greater than all of others combined.
If MM could do such offensive attack, what to say about PR Beyonder. What to say, indeed. You see, my problem here isn't whether or not Beyonder has ridiculous amounts of implied power, it's whether or not he demonstrated said power enough (via feats) to deserve the wankage he receives around here. Imo, he didn't. Iyo, he did.

Originally posted by Xplosive
And Beyonder did what Lucifer+Michael had to do together, but on a much larger scale, since his realm was so much bigger than all others combined. I am certainly not going to debate which infinity of the two was larger (it's pure nonsense, imo.)

All I was pointing out is: a.) Lucifer was utterly unfazed by a multiversal big bang dropped on his face, and b.) he was able to warp those raw/untamed energies into a physical multiverse.

Some think Beyonder has feats of equal value, some don't. Just stating my opinion, is all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
My logic is sound and you know it. You argue for these characters like carver is to glads. One feat--clinging to it and dismissing far less hurting or beating them on panel. laughing out loud

If you're trying to 'push my buttons', it isn't working... It might have if I were 12-13 though, so props for that..?

BullwinkleMoose
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yet a spear defeated Michael ?

Here are the flaws with this Argument:

1) Michael was not even fighting his hardest. It is stated on panel he could have destroyed the heanly host with a Gesture if he had wanted to

2) Most people would not expect heavenly weapons to be a standard weapon. If WW uses enhanced items from Olmypians, imagine what heavenly weapons can probably do

3) This Spear must be stronger than a Multiversal Explosion since that did not cause him any harm

4) Even if you ignore 1, 2, and 3 then for some reason his Father/God decided to give him 1 weakness-spears. Unless his opponents know to use a Spear they will be unable to harm him. I would bet there is not a single scan of anyone on Team 1 using a Spear in battle smile

quanchi112
Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
Here are the flaws with this Argument:

1) Michael was not even fighting his hardest. It is stated on panel he could have destroyed the heanly host with a Gesture if he had wanted to

2) Most people would not expect heavenly weapons to be a standard weapon. If WW uses enhanced items from Olmypians, imagine what heavenly weapons can probably do

3) This Spear must be stronger than a Multiversal Explosion since that did not cause him any harm

4) Even if you ignore 1, 2, and 3 then for some reason his Father/God decided to give him 1 weakness-spears. Unless his opponents know to use a Spear they will be unable to harm him. I would bet there is not a single scan of anyone on Team 1 using a Spear in battle smile 1) I agree he could have but this doesn't change his durability. I've seen demons slaughter angels hand to hand in this series anyways so not really impressive.

2)Speculation as we've seen other beings who weren't heavenly hurt angels and we also saw sandalphon killed rather easily at the end of the arc.

3)False. It isn't stronger than any mulitversal explosion just like Thor's hammer isn't more powerful than a galaxy buster.

4) I shot down your entire argument and you act like comics are consistent even when handled by the same writer.

BullwinkleMoose
I would imagine you are the only person who assumes that heavenly weapons are the same one's used by humans smile

If a Multiversal Explosion cannot harm him, that means the spear would have to be stronger to harm him.

Like I said, even if you accept the Spear Weakness, I have never seen anyone in Team 1 use a Spear Before, do you have scans of any of the 3 using 1?

quanchi112
Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
I would imagine you are the only person who assumes that heavenly weapons are the same one's used by humans smile

If a Multiversal Explosion cannot harm him, that means the spear would have to be stronger to harm him.

Like I said, even if you accept the Spear Weakness, I have never seen anyone in Team 1 use a Spear Before, do you have scans of any of the 3 using 1? I never said it was it's a decent weapon I'd imagine but not something really high up there.

The explosion wasn't meant to harm him it's the power to create and lucy had the knowledge and skill to do so. Most characters don't but he did. It's also different characters, anyways.

They don't need to use a spear beyonder has power in spades and wouldn't be felled in such a manner.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Galan007
Some think Beyonder has feats of equal value, some don't. Just stating my opinion, is all.

Yup, I agree. Fair enough.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by quanchi112
My logic is sound and you know it. You argue for these characters like carver is to glads. One feat--clinging to it and dismissing far less hurting or beating them on panel. Oh god....the Irony.

Like you "cling" to thanos's supposed galactus level shields with one good showing and his wanked "avatar of death" level with no amp at all and his "killing unkillable beings" which given the context isn't that impressive?

Irony.

kevdude
Team 2 takes it. The saying "God before Genesis" or whatever does not really give much hope to team 1..

TheTyrant
Originally posted by kevdude
Team 2 takes it. The saying "God before Genesis" or whatever does not really give much hope to team 1..

Beyonder being Marvel reality, killing multi-versal Death, not having any low showings, wrecking the multi-verse with ease, being called "the living embodiment of the supreme power" (supreme = god), along with the statement "...millions of times more than all the rest of the of the power in the multi-verse combined..." doesn't give much hope to team 2.

BullwinkleMoose
In the "What If", didn't Doom use up all of Beyonder's power when he destroyed the entire Celestial race? Granted the Celestials are Uber but it shows a limitation to his power if it took all of his power to do so. (Going by memory so I could be wrong, but do not think I am....)

A truly Omnipotent Power could have allowed Doom to simply snap his fingers or will the Celestials to no longer exists. Granted it is Doom and not Beyonder using the powers but it is still the same power.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
In the "What If", didn't Doom use up all of Beyonder's power when he destroyed the entire Celestial race? Granted the Celestials are Uber but it shows a limitation to his power if it took all of his power to do so. (Going by memory so I could be wrong, but do not think I am....)

A truly Omnipotent Power could have allowed Doom to simply snap his fingers or will the Celestials to no longer exists. Granted it is Doom and not Beyonder using the powers but it is still the same power. Thats a What-If. Its not canon.

He said he could have destroyed the multiverse and the celestials believed him. Thats well beyond enough power to kill all celestials with ease.

Mindset
Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
In the "What If", didn't Doom use up all of Beyonder's power when he destroyed the entire Celestial race? Granted the Celestials are Uber but it shows a limitation to his power if it took all of his power to do so. (Going by memory so I could be wrong, but do not think I am....)

A truly Omnipotent Power could have allowed Doom to simply snap his fingers or will the Celestials to no longer exists. Granted it is Doom and not Beyonder using the powers but it is still the same power. PR Beyonder was phucking up Celestials with just his fists.

Colossus-Big C
if he was omnipotent he should of killed all of them with a stray thought......

Mindset
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
if he was omnipotent he should of killed all of them with a stray thought...... If he actually wanted to kill them he could...no expression

Colossus-Big C
also the celestials actually let him win.....

Mindset
No, they didn't.

Colossus-Big C
yes they did, they gave off the illusion he was winning.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Mindset
No, they didn't.
Yes they did

Mindset
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
yes they did, they gave off the illusion he was winning. You mean after Beyonder was retconned?

TheTyrant
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
yes they did, they gave off the illusion he was winning.

no expression

That's why this is pre-retcon Beyonder...

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Mindset
If he actually wanted to kill them he could...no expression thumb upOriginally posted by Colossus-Big C
yes they did, they gave off the illusion he was winning. Originally posted by Mindset
You mean after Beyonder was retconned? thumb up

Pre-retcon beyonder could shit-stomp all celestials.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Oh god....the Irony.

Like you "cling" to thanos's supposed galactus level shields with one good showing and his wanked "avatar of death" level with no amp at all and his "killing unkillable beings" which given the context isn't that impressive?

Irony. I use his best showings when it comes to shields. I could even use his Omega shields but then he'd really stomp most characters if I used those. This is all per rules.

Mindset
Originally posted by Galan007
What to say, indeed. You see, my problem here isn't whether or not Beyonder has ridiculous amounts of implied power, it's whether or not he demonstrated said power enough (via feats) to deserve the wankage he receives around here. Imo, he didn't. Iyo, he did.

I am certainly not going to debate which infinity of the two was larger (it's pure nonsense, imo.)

All I was pointing out is: a.) Lucifer was utterly unfazed by a multiversal big bang dropped on his face, and b.) he was able to warp those raw/untamed energies into a physical multiverse.

Some think Beyonder has feats of equal value, some don't. Just stating my opinion, is all.

laughing out loud

If you're trying to 'push my buttons', it isn't working... It might have if I were 12-13 though, so props for that..? That was Lucifer's purpose, to shape the energy, it's not like he took the attack of a multiversal big bang.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Mindset
That was Lucifer's purpose, to shape the energy, it's not like he took the attack of a multiversal big bang. Exactly. I've explained this to him countless times as well.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mindset
That was Lucifer's purpose, to shape the energy, it's not like he took the attack of a multiversal big bang. The big bang was initially released right in his face. After said energies were released, Lucifer began to shape them.

So yes, he did tank a multiversal big bang at ground zero, and yes, he did warp those energies into a physical creation.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
The big bang was initially released right in his face. After said energies were released, Lucifer began to shape them.

So yes, he did tank a multiversal big bang at ground zero, and yes, he did warp those energies into a physical creation. He shaped the energy he didn't tank it. It's the power to create and he created his own verse. It's pretty straight forward.

Galan007
Negative.

Had Lucifer not removed Mike from Yahweh's creation, then subsequent detonation would have destroyed it. Lucifer then brought Mike to his dimension, detonated him, then began weaving those energies.

That is absolutely unarguable.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
Negative.

Had Lucifer not removed Mike from Yahweh's creation, then subsequent detonation would have destroyed it. Lucifer then brought Mike to his dimension, detonated him, then began weaving those energies.

That is absolutely unarguable. Yes, someone needed to manipulate these energies or it would have destroyed creation so he manipulated the energies which isn't the same as tanking it.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Galan I thought you had him on ignore....i'm ashamed of you.

Galan007
He tanked the big bang, then began manipulating those energies:

http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2024269_l1.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2024290_l1.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2024291_l2.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2024292_l3.jpg

Do you not see the enormous big bang that detonated in his face in the third scan? srsly

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
He tanked the big bang, then began manipulating those energies:

http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2024269_l1.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2024290_l1.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2024291_l2.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2024292_l3.jpg

Do you not see the enormous big bang that detonated in his face in the third scan? srsly A CONTROLLED DETONATION THEN. It's right in your scan.

Galan007
That's because Lucifer "controlled" the detonation by removing Michael from Yahweh's creation (which saved it from being destroyed.) Yes, it's right in my scan.

Lucifer released Mike's energies, tanked them (as evident by the big bang that was released in his face), then warped those energies into his creation. If you have proof that he didn't tank the big bang, then plz post it.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
That's because Lucifer "controlled" the detonation by removing Michael from Yahweh's creation (which saved it from being destroyed.) Yes, it's right in my scan.

Lucifer released Mike's energies, tanked them (as evident by the big bang that was released in his face), then warped those energies into his creation. If you have proof that he didn't tank the big bang, then plz post it. No, he took him to a location and manipulated the energies. In the proper setting he could do so not anywhere. This is exactly why the girl was needed (elaine) the next time and why Lucy couldn't do so anywhere.

Galan007
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he took him to a location and manipulated the energies.

In the proper setting he could do so not anywhere.

This is exactly why the girl was needed (elaine) the next time and why Lucy couldn't do so anywhere. No shit. And he manipulated those energies after tanking a blantant big bang to the face initially.

You failed to grasp the concept behind why Lucifer made his own creation. He did so because he wanted to be disconnected from Yahweh's 'grand plan' -- he wanted to build something unseen. He took Mike to the void so he could do just that. The feat occurring in the void doesn't mean Lucifer was only able to do so there. Don't be ridiculous.

Elaine was needed to usurp God's position. Without someone to take up the mantle, creation would have destroyed itself.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
No shit. And he manipulated those energies after tanking a blantant big bang to the face initially.

You failed to grasp the concept behind why Lucifer made his own creation. He did so because he wanted to be disconnected from Yahweh's 'grand plan' -- he wanted to build something unseen. He took Mike to the void so he could do just that. The feat occurring in the void doesn't mean Lucifer was only able to do so there. Don't be ridiculous.

Elaine was needed to usurp God's position. Without someone to take up the mantle, creation would have destroyed itself. I understood that's why he wanted to he was always wanting to do his own thing that's his thing. He manipulated these energies and did so while controlling the detonation meaning he planned for this.

Lucy couldn't have saved creation there is the point. Elaine was also able to manipulate the power to create which was michael's power to begin with. Anyone who can manipulate these said energies won't die from the ensuing power explosion those who can't most likely die but with that being said he planned for this and knew exactly what he was getting himself into.

The character isn't portrayed as being able to take multiversal blasts you misunderstood the feat and Michael's power.

Galan007
*sighs*

I was going to type an actual response, then I realized that I'd just be retyping (almost verbatim) what I've already stated WAY too many times in this thread. And since I absolutely loathe circular debates, I'm just going to stop here.

smile

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
*sighs*

I was going to type an actual response, then I realized that I'd just be retyping (almost verbatim) what I've already stated WAY too many times in this thread. And since I absolutely loathe circular debates, I'm just going to stop here.

smile I just hope you realize your own scan did you in with a controlled detonation.

Galan007
That's your story and you're sticking to it. I get it. smile

quanchi112
Originally posted by Galan007
That's your story and you're sticking to it. I get it. smile You know me.

Galan007
yesermm

iceman24567
LOL at Galans valiant effort

Galan007
I know. I just can't keep up the circular arguments like I used to.

Lost the will, I guess. sad

iceman24567
Lasted about a year long than me thumb up

Lestov16
Team One. Beyonder (and probably MM too if he could really get his shit together) could solo themselves. Kubik has no place here whatsoever. It's like bringing a tooth pick to a tank fight

McNasty996
I have a theory floating around in my head if anyone would care to elaborate. I was thinking since it was stated in the lucifer series that Yahew is not the be-all, end-all being in existance as stated by himself that there are things beyond even him. Wouldn't it be possible that since Beyonder came from outside TOOA's creation that he was more powerful than god if TOOA and Yahew function on the same principal.

quanchi112
Originally posted by McNasty996
I have a theory floating around in my head if anyone would care to elaborate. I was thinking since it was stated in the lucifer series that Yahew is not the be-all, end-all being in existance as stated by himself that there are things beyond even him. Wouldn't it be possible that since Beyonder came from outside TOOA's creation that he was more powerful than god if TOOA and Yahew function on the same principal. I think so as well. I think while in his verse he was the most powerful he wouldn't fare all too well against the Beyonder.

Galan007
Yahweh said that he was infinite and eternal, but he was still "shaped by forces external to himself."

I have always viewed that statement as a reference to the real world comic book writers/artists -- as they are forces external to him (literally), and they did shape him (literally.)

/shrug

McNasty996
Thanks for the input, i was just pondering on that.

Solidus Black
Michael is second to God is he not?

Didnt Lucifer make his own universe to be away from God's influence?

Spectre is the child of the group and he is easily the most powerful physical being in mainstream DC

quanchi112
Originally posted by Solidus Black
Michael is second to God is he not?

Didnt Lucifer make his own universe to be away from God's influence?

Spectre is the child of the group and he is easily the most powerful physical being in mainstream DC How is Spectre the most powerful physical being in dc ?

Solidus Black
Team 2 wins.

I dont think a Beyonder has teh ability to unmake or affect Lucifer or Michael

Solidus Black
Originally posted by quanchi112
How is Spectre the most powerful physical being in dc ?

With God's backing, who is more powerful?

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