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The bear has gigantic mass and muscle and the gorilla has arms as powerful as machines. Which animal would more likely survive if they fought until one was dead? Best educated guess...

Gorilla

Originally posted by Robtard
Gorilla

Why is the rabbit unafraid?

Bear. Comparable or superior strength+crushing jaws and sharp claws.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Bear. Comparable or superior strength+crushing jaws and sharp claws.

I've had this same debate with friends in the past, and most thought that the Gorrilla would win. I tend to agree with you on everything that you wrote, but there is also one more factor that you didn't add. The size ratio. Most animals respect size, for instance if you put a full grown Piranha in the tank with an Oscar it would not dare attack the larger animal. The Gorilla would react in similar fashion and would likely cower to the much larger Bear. This would give the Bear another advantage.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Bear. Comparable or superior strength+crushing jaws and sharp claws.

and weight advantage.

Silverback Gorillas weigh about 450 lbs, Kodiak Bears can easily reach 1500, more than 3 times the size of the Gorilla. The bear also has teeth and claws that the Gorilla doesn't, plus the bear is much faster, this one isn't even close.

Edit to say the bear is much stronger also

Arctodus pristinus vs. Gigantopithecus blackii


Much better matchup.

I prefer the gigantopithecus that stands upright and weighs 1200lbs (BIG FOOT!.)

Originally posted by Stoic
I've had this same debate with friends in the past, and most thought that the Gorrilla would win. I tend to agree with you on everything that you wrote, but there is also one more factor that you didn't add. The size ratio. Most animals respect size, for instance if you put a full grown Piranha in the tank with an Oscar it would not dare attack the larger animal. The Gorilla would react in similar fashion and would likely cower to the much larger Bear. This would give the Bear another advantage. Cower like a raccoon will cower to a large person?

Could a gorilla rip the bottom jaw off the bear? I saw one rip a strong young tree apart like it was string cheese. It was on youtube under gorilla strength test. Not that the bear isn't much larger, I just think the gorilla shouldn't be underestimated.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Could a gorilla rip the bottom jaw off the bear? I saw one rip a strong young tree apart like it was string cheese. It was on youtube under gorilla strength test. Not that the bear isn't much larger, I just think the gorilla shouldn't be underestimated.

It's not so much the strength in question, but more it's primal fear. Animals have a healthy respect of creatures that are much larger than they are. Humans also share this fear. Would you rather fight a person your size, or someone 2 feet taller than you?

Some of you guys are bringing an unreasonable logic to the question. Outside of Michael Vicks backyard or a circus train derailment, where would these animals ever come into conflict, much less direct interaction?

Picture a cage match and then decide who you think would win.

The gorilla

Originally posted by skekUng
Some of you guys are bringing an unreasonable logic to the question. Outside of Michael Vicks backyard or a circus train derailment, where would these animals ever come into conflict, much less direct interaction?

Picture a cage match and then decide who you think would win. Cage match would be fixed. God knows the mob would have that gorilla so full of steroids.

I don't think the gorilla would need steroids. I'm not saying bears are necessarily stupid or aren't agile, but I think the gorilla outmatches it in both agility and intelligence.

This is one of those conversations that could go on forever.

Originally posted by skekUng
This is one of those conversations that could go on forever. Right, the thread starter should go and capture the bear and gorilla and film their fight.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Arctodus pristinus vs. Gigantopithecus blackii


Much better matchup.

I prefer the gigantopithecus that stands upright and weighs 1200lbs (BIG FOOT!.)
Has there ever been any solid proof that Gigantopithecus was bipedal?

Originally posted by skekUng
Some of you guys are bringing an unreasonable logic to the question. Outside of Michael Vicks backyard or a circus train derailment, where would these animals ever come into conflict, much less direct interaction?

Picture a cage match and then decide who you think would win.

The Romans used to pit bears against all different types of big cats from what I've read and the advantage was almost always held by the bear which could break the cats skull with a well placed strike. The gorilla skull might be tougher as it must survive gorilla strength blows to the head. A literal fight like this is undesirable but the hypothetical one is interesting. I just think that the gorillas strength might be enough to kill an unrelenting bear, but a bear is not a weak creature in the least. As for the fear element, fight or flight is the instinctive response to fear not cowering and waiting to be killed.

edit: The chimp that tore that ladies face up was reportedly stabbed with a butcher knife and hit with a shovel to no effect. A chimp is way inferior to a silverback in strength and is considered five times as strong as a human.

Yogi > Magilla. Bigger, stronger, sharper-clawed.

Tiger vs Lion = better debate.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Arctodus pristinus vs. Gigantopithecus blackii


Much better matchup.

I prefer the gigantopithecus that stands upright and weighs 1200lbs (BIG FOOT!.)

Good match-up.

But I'll raise you a Megatherium.

And for all the bear fanboys in here, just look at how the gorilla uses its superior agility and intelligence.

sVAP5qWnBek

Bear hasn't a chance.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Bear. Comparable or superior strength+crushing jaws and sharp claws. Sharp claws FTW.


Besides, the bear has better screen feats.

Originally posted by Robtard
And for all the bear fanboys in here, just look at how the gorilla uses its superior agility and intelligence.

sVAP5qWnBek

Bear hasn't a chance.
That bear is tiny compared to the max size of an adult male Kodiak.

http://www.performancebowhunting.com/images/kodiakBear.jpg

Originally posted by Omega Vision
That bear is tiny compared to the max size of an adult male Kodiak.

And that gorilla is small compared to a maxed out silverback. Yet the speed, agility and intelligence clearly shows that the bears brute force (all it has) is no match.

This is clearly one example of where "brains > brawn".

That picture doesn't help the bears plight much, as you'll notice despite the bears enormous mass and power, a stupid redneck with a more stupid smile took it down with a little bow.

75O_JBfpX7I&feature=related

Originally posted by Robtard
And that gorilla is small compared to a maxed out silverback. Yet the speed, agility and intelligence clearly shows that the bears brute force (all it has) is no match.

This is clearly one example of where "brains > brawn".

That picture doesn't help the bears plight much, as you'll notice despite the bears enormous mass and power, a stupid redneck with a more stupid smile took it down with a little bow.
He's not a stupid redneck. He's an expert hunter with a top of the line 75 lb draw weight hunting bow.

That "stupid redneck" would **** up a Gorilla too with that bow and three-bladed steel broadhead arrows.

^
Yes, yes, RJ. We're all keenly aware that Brad Pitt in number one on your 'Guys I'd Go Gay For' list (aka The G.I.G.G.F).

Originally posted by Robtard
^
Yes, yes, RJ. We're all keenly aware that Brad Pitt in number one on your 'Guys I'd Go Gay For' list (aka The G.I.G.G.F). Nah, just pointing out the size of a fully grown Kodiak bear. I guess that was a kodiak? What's the difference between a Kodiak and a Grizzly? Aren't they members of the same family?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's not a stupid redneck. He's an expert hunter with a top of the line 75 lb draw weight hunting bow.

That "stupid redneck" would **** up a Gorilla too with that bow and three-bladed steel broadhead arrows.

Na, he's a stupid redneck with an even more stupid grin on his stupid face.

Hahahaha, no. The gorilla would never allow itself to be in the line of sight, let alone long enough for that retard to draw his little bow and aim. The gorilla would smell him coming a 1/2-mile to a mile away; then employ gorilla-guerrilla tactics and it would end up with the hunter running out of the lowlands with half a bow sticking out of his ass.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah, just pointing out the size of a fully grown Kodiak bear. I guess that was a kodiak? What's the difference between a Kodiak and a Grizzly? Aren't they members of the same family?

Same family of brown bears, but the Kodiak (aka Alaskan Grizzly) is larger and has more of a box-shaped head.

Originally posted by Robtard
Na, he's a stupid redneck with an even more stupid grin on his stupid face.

Hahahaha, no. The gorilla would never allow itself to be in the line of sight, let alone long enough for that retard to draw his little bow and aim. The gorilla would smell him coming a 1/2-mile to a mile away; then employ gorilla-guerrilla tactics and it would end up with the hunter running out of the lowlands with half a bow sticking out of his ass.
Haters gonna hate.

Yes Gorillas are unhuntable. Which is why Gorillas haven't been nearly driven to extinction by hunters with far less skill than Bob Fromme...


...oh wait.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Haters gonna hate.

Yes Gorillas are unhuntable. Which is why Gorillas haven't been nearly driven to extinction by hunters with far less skill than Bob Fromme...


...oh wait.

Nonsense, just telling it like it is.

Didn't say that. Groups of 30 Africans with machetes and AK-47s are a far greater threat than that wannabe Green Arrow to a silverback.

For?

I gotta say, that looked more like a bigfoot to me.

Was that from the Six Million Dollar Man?

Where is this fight taking place?

Originally posted by skekUng
I gotta say, that looked more like a bigfoot to me.

Was that from the Six Million Dollar Man?


Hahahahaahahaaaahahahaha, bigfeet don't exist, they're myth.

No, that's a show, this was footage captured by some brave campers.

Originally posted by skekUng
Where is this fight taking place?

Where all internet fights take place unless specified. The Thunderdome!

Originally posted by Robtard
Where all internet fights take place unless specified. The Thunderdome!

Oh. So, it is a cage match! Good to hear.

Gorilla wins.

To those saying the Gorilla would win what are you basing this on? The Bear is bigger, stronger, faster, and has teeth and claws the gorilla doesn't. Gorillas fight like humans, with their fists. Strong as it is, the Gorilla would unlikely be able to hurt the bear. A 600 pound male black bear would probably defeat a silverback, a1500 lb Kodiak is just plain overkill.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
That bear is tiny compared to the max size of an adult male Kodak.

http://www.performancebowhunting.com/images/kodiakBear.jpg

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's not a stupid redneck. He's an expert hunter with a top of the line 75 lb draw weight hunting bow.

That "stupid redneck" would **** up a Gorilla too with that bow and three-bladed steel broadhead arrows.

I hate people who hunt and kill animals just for sport. They should all be rounded up and placed in extermination camps.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
I hate people who hunt and kill animals just for sport. They should all be rounded up and placed in extermination camps.
Seriously?

A bit extreme. I can understand if you don't agree with hunting and wouldn't do it yourself but hunters aren't evil. Besides, from what I understand of that guy's hunt he was on the ground when the bear appeared. He was on a Boar hunt IIRC, the bear just showed up and he killed it because of the threat it posed.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Silverback Gorillas weigh about 450 lbs, Kodiak Bears can easily reach 1500, more than 3 times the size of the Gorilla. The bear also has teeth and claws that the Gorilla doesn't, plus the bear is much faster, this one isn't even close.

Edit to say the bear is much stronger also

Depends on the bear species.

A sloth bear or American black bear is a much closer match up.

I mean there's that one video of a house cat treeing a black bear, so I'm sure a silverback could do the same.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
I hate people who hunt and kill animals just for sport. They should all be rounded up and placed in extermination camps.

How about we take their weapons away and let them go for the animals with bare hands.

Originally posted by Parmaniac


How about we take their weapons away and let them go for the animals with bare hands.
I bet you're one of those people who doesn't give a damn about fishing though. Because fish aren't "cute"

A kodiak bear would eat the gorilla for breakfast. Though huge compared to us, the gorilla is still tiny in comparison.

A kodiak bear vs a Blood Lusted Bull or Rhino would be awesome however.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Has there ever been any solid proof that Gigantopithecus was bipedal?

Has there ever been any solid proof hat Gigantopithecus was quadrapedal? Until we get a hip bone, we will never know. (Or a foot print...or a foot)

And, yes, the supportors of a bipedal gigantopithecus cite the "wide" back of the jaw as an indication of an "upright" skull common with early ape-like, bipedal creatures (something about breathing). That's what Krantz thought. That opinion is in the minority, however.


Originally posted by Robtard
Good match-up.

But I'll raise you a Megatherium.

It seems like it would be too slow...and unagressive.

Originally posted by Robtard
That picture doesn't help the bears plight much, as you'll notice despite the bears enormous mass and power, a stupid redneck with a more stupid smile took it down with a little bow.


lol!

Originally posted by TheGoldenSpy
A kodiak bear would eat the gorilla for breakfast. Though huge compared to us, the gorilla is still tiny in comparison.

A kodiak bear vs a Blood Lusted Bull or Rhino would be awesome however.
A rhino is way way too much for any kind of bear.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Has there ever been any solid proof hat Gigantopithecus was quadrapedal?

It was huge and didn't live immersed in water

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It was huge and didn't live immersed in water

That's not evidence of bipedal or quadrapedal.

By your logic, Allasaurus was quadrapedal.

Allasaurus >>>>>>>> Gigantopithecus blackii.

Ahaha racist.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Ahaha racist.

I'm only racist against pump action shotguns during the ZA.

AA-12, por favor.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
To those saying the Gorilla would win what are you basing this on? The Bear is bigger, stronger, faster, and has teeth and claws the gorilla doesn't. Gorillas fight like humans, with their fists. Strong as it is, the Gorilla would unlikely be able to hurt the bear. A 600 pound male black bear would probably defeat a silverback, a1500 lb Kodiak is just plain overkill.


The answer to the first question is easily found in the first two pages.

Bigger. Yes
Stronger. Up for debate
Faster. No, no it is not when agility is considered. This isn't a foot race.
Teeth. Pretty even.
Claws. Negotiable.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Depends on the bear species.

A sloth bear or American black bear is a much closer match up.

I mean there's that one video of a house cat treeing a black bear, so I'm sure a silverback could do the same.

Was it an adult male Blackbear?

Originally posted by skekUng
The answer to the first question is easily found in the first two pages.

Bigger. Yes-
Stronger. Up for debate
Faster. No, no it is not when agility is considered. This isn't a foot race.
Teeth. Pretty even.
Claws. Negotiable.

Bigger, yes...MUCH bigger

Strength is not up for debate. The bear can easily flip huge boulders and treetrunks. Yes the gorilla is strong, compared to a human, it's nothing compared to a bear.

Faster?-Ever seen videos of bears taking down a bison or an elk, I don't like the gorilla's chances here

Teeth..a gorilla's teeth are just basically larger versions of human teeth, it does not have the exagerated canines, not the carnisalias of the bear, it also has far less jaw strength.

Claws, the bears can be up to 5 inches long, the gorilla doesn't have claws, it has fingernails, as do all primates.

Originally posted by King Kandy
A rhino is way way too much for any kind of bear.

Probably correct

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I bet you're one of those people who doesn't give a damn about fishing though. Because fish aren't "cute" If they eat the fish it's okay if it's just for the trophy or even worse for fun of it it's also retarded/****ed up.

pmY01MDiIb4

nwRNiVJl15E

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Bigger, yes...MUCH bigger

Strength is not up for debate. The bear can easily flip huge boulders and treetrunks. Yes the gorilla is strong, compared to a human, it's nothing compared to a bear.

Faster?-Ever seen videos of bears taking down a bison or an elk, I don't like the gorilla's chances here

Teeth..a gorilla's teeth are just basically larger versions of human teeth, it does not have the exagerated canines, not the carnisalias of the bear, it also has far less jaw strength.

Claws, the bears can be up to 5 inches long, the gorilla doesn't have claws, it has fingernails, as do all primates.

Incorrect on all counts.

Originally posted by skekUng
Incorrect on all counts.

HEY!

That's my line!

Originally posted by Parmaniac
If they eat the fish it's okay if it's just for the trophy or even worse for fun of it it's also retarded/****ed up.
I don't think it makes a difference to the fish whether you eat them or stick them on a wall.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Bigger, yes...MUCH bigger

Strength is not up for debate. The bear can easily flip huge boulders and treetrunks. Yes the gorilla is strong, compared to a human, it's nothing compared to a bear.

Faster?-Ever seen videos of bears taking down a bison or an elk, I don't like the gorilla's chances here

Teeth..a gorilla's teeth are just basically larger versions of human teeth, it does not have the exagerated canines, not the carnisalias of the bear, it also has far less jaw strength.

Claws, the bears can be up to 5 inches long, the gorilla doesn't have claws, it has fingernails, as do all primates.


Grizzly bear size:
Up to 1200lbs.

Gorilla size: 400-450 lbs.

Were you correct? Yes.



Grizzly bite force: "Their bite force can be up to 1200 ppsi"

Gorilla bite force: 1200-1400 ppsi.

Were you correct? No.

Gorilla's teeth are like humans and they do not have massive canines.
Gorilla's teeth:
http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/10/att_gorilla.jpg

Were you correct? No.



For good measure:
Grizzly's teeth.
http://blog.kexp.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/Grizzly%20Bear-Larry.jpg


Gorilla's don't have claws:

Were you correct? Yes.

Primates do not have claws"
Primates with claws:
http://pygmymarmoset.net/image/pygmy-marmoset-claws.jpg

Were you correct? No.

In fact, many many primates have claws from the Koala bear to many small monkeys in South America. I believe the word you wanted was "great apes".



That's it. No more fact checking.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not evidence of bipedal or quadrapedal.

By your logic, Allasaurus was quadrapedal.

Allasaurus >>>>>>>> Gigantopithecus blackii.




I stand by my absurd claim.

But, seriously, isn't the Allosaurus incredibly bottom heavy comapred to Gigantopithecus?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't think it makes a difference to the fish whether you eat them or stick them on a wall. The point is that it's not for false manlyhood/tradition/fun/sport or any of that retarded shit you really eat the fish and that's what you go fishing for.

I have a problem when people kill for the sheer fun of it, I wouldn't judge a person who lives near the amazonas that kills a big ****ing (rare) snake cause it entered his house and threatened his life.

Come on now, I know you're not stupid and you know what I mean I already posted that in the Comic OT.

Killing just for the fun of it or sport or because of "tradition" is just disgusting imo.

And as a rule of thumb, I personally go by how many offspring a species throws out. So going by that killing an elephant is way worse than killing a fly. Or in this example Bear > Fish.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I stand by my absurd claim.

But, seriously, isn't the Allosaurus incredibly bottom heavy comapred to Gigantopithecus?

We do not know.

The best evidence I have seen is the "wider back jaw" for an upright posture. Other than making vague claims that it walked on all fours because it was so large, there's no other "best" evidence marker other than an really good guess that it was upright due to the wider jaw at the back.

Claims to the contrary are baseless. Even the bipedal evidence of an upgright posture are almost baseless...but it is the strongest claim, I personally believe.


Until we get a hip bone, we really won't know....there are other bones we could get but the hip bone is the very best indicator.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Grizzly bear size:
Up to 1200lbs.

Gorilla size: 400-450 lbs.

Were you correct? Yes.



Grizzly bite force: "Their bite force can be up to 1200 ppsi"

Gorilla bite force: 1200-1400 ppsi.

Were you correct? No.

Gorilla's teeth are like humans and they do not have massive canines.
Gorilla's teeth:
http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/10/att_gorilla.jpg

Were you correct? No.



For good measure:
Grizzly's teeth.
http://blog.kexp.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/Grizzly%20Bear-Larry.jpg


Gorilla's don't have claws:

Were you correct? Yes.

Primates do not have claws"
Primates with claws:
http://pygmymarmoset.net/image/pygmy-marmoset-claws.jpg

Were you correct? No.

In fact, many many primates have claws from the Koala bear to many small monkeys in South America. I believe the word you wanted was "great apes".



That's it. No more fact checking.

Well, I wish I had time to run down my facts online but I don't, my info comes mostly from over 20 years of watching nature shows on Discovery, Natgeo, PBS, etc. I do watch a LOT of shows on this subject (not the fight, but animal stats)

The thread was Kodiak (or Alaskan Brown), not a Grizzly, there's a difference, and Kodiaks can reach 1500 lbs..or more.

Animal Face Off on Discovery measured a Kamchacktan Brown Bear, which is slightly smaller than a Kodiak, bite force at 1800 lbs PSI.

Ok, Gorillas do have large canines but those pictures are deceptive, the bears head is 3-4 times the size thus it's canines would be much larger.

As I've previously noted also, Gorillas do not fight with their teeth (though chimpanzees do), they use their fists.

On claws I concede that some primates may have claws though Gorillas do not ....and the Koala is a marsupial, not a primate.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Well, I wish I had time to run down my facts online but I don't, my info comes mostly from over 20 years of watching nature shows on Discovery, Natgeo, PBS, etc. I do watch a LOT of shows on this subject (not the fight, but animal stats)

The thread was Kodiak (or Alaskan Brown), not a Grizzly, there's a difference, and Kodiaks can reach 1500 lbs..or more.

That doesn't matter because you were already correct in saying it was larger and the Grizzly is larger...much less the Kodiak.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Animal Face Off on Discovery measured a Kamchacktan Brown Bear, which is slightly smaller than a Kodiak, bite force at 1800 lbs PSI.

Kodiak bear is the same as the grizzly in bite force. You're still wrong.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Ok, Gorillas do have large canines but those pictures are deceptive, the bears head is 3-4 times the size thus it's canines would be much larger.

Nah, it's 2 times as large.

And the head doesn't matter, it's the mouth.

And the teeth are between 1-2 inches longer, not even double in length.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
As I've previously noted also, Gorillas do not fight with their teeth (though chimpanzees do), they use their fists.

K. I never said they did: just confirming or denying your facts.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
On claws I concede that some primates may have claws though Gorillas do not ....and the Koala is a marsupial, not a primate.

I knew that already. I had s stupid moment.

Most of you think the bear wins simply because it's bigger and has claws. A Kodiak's claws are deadly to humans and very threatening but a Gorilla should be a tougher nut to crack than a human. The Silverbacks 440 lbs of solid muscle and bone. Look at it's shoulders, head and neck. You would almost have to imagine the gorilla not being able to do anything to the bear to hurt it. The gorilla has the strongest arms and hands in the animal kingdom. Shouldn't that make ripping the jaws of an attacking kodiak apart something that it could and would likely do?

Originally posted by The MISTER
Most of you think the bear wins simply because it's bigger and has claws. A Kodiak's claws are deadly to humans and very threatening but a Gorilla should be a tougher nut to crack than a human. The Silverbacks 440 lbs of solid muscle and bone. Look at it's shoulders, head and neck. You would almost have to imagine the gorilla not being able to do anything to the bear to hurt it. The gorilla has the strongest arms and hands in the animal kingdom. Shouldn't that make ripping the jaws of an attacking kodiak apart something that it could and would likely do? There used to be a show called "Animal Face-Off," where two animals would be pitted against each other, their chances "scientifically" evaluated by experts, experts in each animal, in biomechanical engineering, and in computer simulation. After 55 minutes of hearing and watching these experts do their thing, the last 5 minutes featured cgi animals, based on supposedly real data, facing-off. IIRC, the animal with the substantially superior mass (and therefore strength, as it takes muscle power to move all that mass), won.

The bear has about 3x the gorilla's mass; it's strength overall has to be proportional. Plus it does have long, rending claws. Unless a silverback pulls Kong-style takedowns (which, naturally, I really don't think gorillas are prone to do), Ursus arctos middendorffi, IMHO, wins.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Was it an adult male Blackbear?

It was actually. And that cat (I think it was a gray tabby) was like a bat out of hell. The bear was seriously scared shitless.

---

Wolverines regularly fight off bears, so why couldn't a gorilla. Wolverines only are like the size of a medium or even a small dog...

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
It was actually. And that cat (I think it was a gray tabby) was like a bat out of hell. The bear was seriously scared shitless.

---

Wolverines regularly fight off bears, so why couldn't a gorilla. Wolverines only are like the size of a medium or even a small dog...

Ok, but had the bear actually stood and fought what would the outcome have been?

You are 100% correct about Wolverines, they are the meanest thing on 4 legs. They aren't afraid to attack bears, wolves, or mountain lions.

Obviously, the cat would only inflict superficial wounds. And a gorilla could do a lot more damage.

Gorilla has the mobility and agility advantage so i pick the gorilla, they're also wicked smart.

Is this match taking place near pollinating bees? Bears thrive off honey like Popeye off spinach.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Is this match taking place near pollinating bees? Bears thrive off honey like Popeye off spinach.

What if it is a gorilla that has been raised by a bear?

His story would make a great film, directed by Clint Eastwood.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It seems like it would be too slow...and unagressive.


That's what the steady diet of steroids and daily jabs with a red-hot poker are for.

Originally posted by Mindship
There used to be a show called "Animal Face-Off," where two animals would be pitted against each other, their chances "scientifically" evaluated by experts, experts in each animal, in biomechanical engineering, and in computer simulation. After 55 minutes of hearing and watching these experts do their thing, the last 5 minutes featured cgi animals, based on supposedly real data, facing-off. IIRC, the animal with the substantially superior mass (and therefore strength, as it takes muscle power to move all that mass), won.

The bear has about 3x the gorilla's mass; it's strength overall has to be proportional. Plus it does have long, rending claws. Unless a silverback pulls Kong-style takedowns (which, naturally, I really don't think gorillas are prone to do), Ursus arctos middendorffi, IMHO, wins. That's what I'd like to figure out. When I was younger I read that a gorilla is 20x stronger than a man and can rip a man limb from limb. The strength of the gorilla seems disproportionate. I would like to know how strong the strongest gorilla's arms and grip would be. If the gorilla could easily rip the jaw off and/or crush the snout of an attacking bear then I'd like to factor that in rather than just say the bear wins cause it's bigger. A bear has a lot more fat than a gorilla which does not hibernate. A 400 pound human would probably be killed a 150 pound chimp that was trying to kill them despite being much larger.
Having 3x the gorillas mass doesn't immediately equal 3x as strong as the gorilla.

Originally posted by The MISTER
That's what I'd like to figure out. When I was younger I read that a gorilla is 20x stronger than a man and can rip a man limb from limb. The strength of the gorilla seems disproportionate. I would like to know how strong the strongest gorilla's arms and grip would be. If the gorilla could easily rip the jaw off and/or crush the snout of an attacking bear then I'd like to factor that in rather than just say the bear wins cause it's bigger. A bear has a lot more fat than a gorilla which does not hibernate. A 400 pound human would probably be killed a 150 pound chimp that was trying to kill them despite being much larger.
Having 3x the gorillas mass doesn't immediately equal 3x as strong as the gorilla. Much of a bear's weight is muscle. But for argument's sake, even if 1/3 of a bear's weight was fat, it would still outweigh a gorilla by 2:1. And I've heard that a bear could crush a bull's skull with one swipe.

It's certainly possible for the gorilla to win. But for now, I'm still gonna bet on Yogi.

Originally posted by Mindship
Much of a bear's weight is muscle. But for argument's sake, even if 1/3 of a bear's weight was fat, it would still outweigh a gorilla by 2:1. And I've heard that a bear could crush a bull's skull with one swipe.

It's certainly possible for the gorilla to win. But for now, I'm still gonna bet on Yogi. I've heard that too. (the thing about the bull) Could a gorilla's skull withstand it? If it can't I can't see how it could win but I don't know how tough it is? Do you think a gorilla would use it's rending abilities to attack? Would it grab an attacking animal like a bear?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
It was actually. And that cat (I think it was a gray tabby) was like a bat out of hell. The bear was seriously scared shitless.

---

Wolverines regularly fight off bears, so why couldn't a gorilla. Wolverines only are like the size of a medium or even a small dog...
Black Bears are pussies compared to Grizzlies though.

You can have a shot at scaring them off by yelling and waving your arms.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Black Bears are pussies compared to Grizzlies though.

You can have a shot at scaring them off by yelling and waving your arms.

This is true.

I saw this on an episode about bears in discovery. Apparently, Grizzlys aren't afraid of shit and one adult male was destroying the local population of black bears like it was nothing. They had to hunt down the grizzly and relocate it because of how destructive it was being.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is true.

I saw this on an episode about bears in discovery. Apparently, Grizzlys aren't afraid of shit and one adult male was destroying the local population of black bears like it was nothing. They had to hunt down the grizzly and relocate it because of how destructive it was being.

And you'd think it would have been the black ones destroying the neighborhood and bringing down property value. Go figure.

Edit: Damn it, that's totally not me or what I'm about, it's my father talking through me.

Originally posted by Robtard
And you'd think it would have been the black ones destroying the neighborhood and bringing down property value. Go figure.

Edit: Damn it, that's totally not me or what I'm about, it's my father talking through me. Learn Occlumency.

Originally posted by Robtard
And you'd think it would have been the black ones destroying the neighborhood and bringing down property value. Go figure.

Edit: Damn it, that's totally not me or what I'm about, it's my father talking through me. You're a trip! That earlier post about the steroids and poker still makes me laugh. Messed up.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Learn Occlumency.

No thanks, I'm straight.

Originally posted by Robtard
No thanks, I'm straight. Go sell some oranges then.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Go sell some oranges then.

He's Uruguayan, not Mexican.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
He's Uruguayan, not Mexican.

Este pendejo gringo no sabe nada.

Originally posted by Robtard
Este pendejo gringo no sabe nada.

Simon, guey.

Originally posted by Robtard
And you'd think it would have been the black ones destroying the neighborhood and bringing down property value. Go figure.

Edit: Damn it, that's totally not me or what I'm about, it's my father talking through me.

At first, I thought you were referring to typical black bear behavior.

When I read you edit, it still did not kick in because I thought that was some sort of familial prejudice against black bears...and that thought turned on the light bulb.

I just don't have it in me to be racist on the fly.

Gorilla is certainly smarter and may be stronger. I dont actually know how strong a bear would be, but I do know that gorilla's are supposed to be strong enough to rip people's arms clean off. The other great ape's musculature insertion is different from ours, they're all much much stronger in proportion, chimps are said to be 7 times stronger than humans and they're ridiculously tiny compared to gorillas. The gorilla should also have a better dexterity and very powerful jaw. I'll go with him.

Originally posted by 753
Gorilla is certainly smarter and may be stronger. I dont actually know how strong a bear would be, but I do know that a 45kg can rip a human's arm off. The other great ape's musculature insertion is different from ours, they're all much much stronger in proportion, chimps are said to be 7 times stronger than humans and they're ridiculously tiny compared to gorillas. The gorilla should also have a better dexterity and very powerful jaw. I'll go with him.

I do not even know how that's possible. 45KG of force (I assume the acceleration vector is gravity?) All the time, people life far more than that, with one arm, in gyms.


Maybe a really really skinny person, 45Kg would pull the arm off.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
He's Uruguayan, not Mexican. Same shit. I'm Irish, not German.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I do not even know how that's possible. 45KG of force (I assume the acceleration vector is gravity?) All the time, people life far more than that, with one arm, in gyms.


Maybe a really really skinny person, 45Kg would pull the arm off. No, I meant a chimp weighing 45 kg could do it. But I edited the post later on after checking the info. I half-remembered it from a documentary, but Gorillas are the ones said to be able to rip people's arms off.

Pound for pound, Chimps are said to be 2 to 8 times stronger than humans. They can outrace our fastest runners and jump 1/2 higher than the best human athletes. Their arm pull is also much stronger than ours.

I think Chimps are also proportionally much stronger than Gorillas though. And IIRC Orangutans are the strongest apes pound for pound.

Besides ripping the arm off a human and ripping the limbs off a f*cking Kodiak are entirely different.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think Chimps are also proportionally much stronger than Gorillas though. And IIRC Orangutans are the strongest apes pound for pound.

Besides ripping the arm off a human and ripping the limbs off a f*cking Kodiak are entirely different.

I've never heard that about an orangutan.

But we do know from tests that Chimps are about twice as strong (ceiling limit), pound for pound, than a human.

http://www.slate.com/id/2212232/






I also highly doubt the facts and figures on most websites, touting orangutans as 7 times stronger than a human. Probably bullsh*t. If I were to guess, it would be closer to 2-3 times, pound for pound.


Also, the measures are always against "an active adult male." Obviously, that's misleading because a 160lb world class power-lifter is going to be many times stronger than an active adult male...and certainly stronger than most to all chimps of equivalant size...because chimps do not train to be the worlds strongest in their weight class.



But where are these figures about orangutans and gorillas? I've never read about their actual strength.


And those cinnamon rolls in my avatar look delicious.

http://www.videojug.com/expertanswer/gorilla-facts-2/how-strong-are-gorillas

Ahahahahaha jug.

Originally posted by Robtard
http://www.videojug.com/expertanswer/gorilla-facts-2/how-strong-are-gorillas

That doesn't give us what we are looking for.

10 times stronger. Hmmm. Maybe?

But we do know that a male gorilla can be more than twice as large as a man, easily. The high end, 2.5 times as large, makes sense.

If we keep the chimps "double the strength, pound for pound" measure, then that nets us 5 times as strong as a man. That's probably much closer to "real" than 10 times.

Prediction: Robtard watches Gorilla bestiality porn.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Prediction: Robtard watches Gorilla bestiality porn.

Uhhhh...lol...

Originally posted by The MISTER
I've heard that too. (the thing about the bull) Could a gorilla's skull withstand it? If it can't I can't see how it could win but I don't know how tough it is? Do you think a gorilla would use it's rending abilities to attack? Would it grab an attacking animal like a bear? I'm really not sure what either animal could withstand, except that they seem to stand up to their own kind fairly well.

From what I've seen on nature programs, apes don't seem to 'rend' -- using just their limbs -- as a general fighting strategy. They pound (with what looks like hammerfists), grab and thrash; and any rending seems to be by grabbing and biting.

Addressing other posts: as far as strength comparisons between apes and humans go: AFAIK, measurements involve upper body / arm / shoulder girdle power, where apes will naturally excel, given they are brachiators by design and life-long practice. For a human and a bear, the hindquarters / lower limbs pack the most power (another reason why I see a bear winning: any direct, head-on clash favors the bear driving its superior mass with those stronger rear limbs, limbs which can allow a bear to temporarily walk upright and support 1200 pounds).

As far as humans go, I think it's a good idea to keep in mind that your average human is not using anywhere near their full strength potential -- certainly not from birth -- the way a wild animal does. It would be interesting, though, to pit, say, a muzzled adult chimp (muzzled, to eliminate the teeth factor, for fairness' sake) against an enraged 200lb powerlifter.

I'd also like to have seen an ape of comparable mass go up against this shotokan master (his name currently escapes me). Supposedly, this guy could strike with the power of a bear.

Originally posted by Robtard
And for all the bear fanboys in here, just look at how the gorilla uses its superior agility and intelligence.

sVAP5qWnBek

Bear hasn't a chance.

Lol @ the man in the gorilla suit, and the trained bear.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Prediction: Robtard watches Gorilla bestiality porn.

Well no, I've not run into that, at least not yet.

But here's a fun fact: Gorillas have the smallest penis in the primate family for their body size. The average being 2".

fun for you maybe, I doubt they're laughing about it

Bear wins as much as I'd like to say gorilla it gets dominated here.

Originally posted by 753
fun for you maybe, I doubt they're laughing about it

Which is even more proof of how much rage and fury the gorilla will bring to this fight.

Originally posted by Robtard
But here's a fun fact: Gorillas have the smallest penis in the primate family for their body size. The average being 2". And I believe humans have the largest, the average being about 8".

Originally posted by Mindship
And I believe humans have the largest, the average being about 8".





















Going by the smiley, I think that's a joke.

But it's actually slightly less than 6 inches. (About 15 cm.)

Originally posted by Mindship
I'm really not sure what either animal could withstand, except that they seem to stand up to their own kind fairly well.

From what I've seen on nature programs, apes don't seem to 'rend' -- using just their limbs -- as a general fighting strategy. They pound (with what looks like hammerfists), grab and thrash; and any rending seems to be by grabbing and biting.

Addressing other posts: as far as strength comparisons between apes and humans go: AFAIK, measurements involve upper body / arm / shoulder girdle power, where apes will naturally excel, given they are brachiators by design and life-long practice. For a human and a bear, the hindquarters / lower limbs pack the most power (another reason why I see a bear winning: any direct, head-on clash favors the bear driving its superior mass with those stronger rear limbs, limbs which can allow a bear to temporarily walk upright and support 1200 pounds).

As far as humans go, I think it's a good idea to keep in mind that your average human is not using anywhere near their full strength potential -- certainly not from birth -- the way a wild animal does. It would be interesting, though, to pit, say, a muzzled adult chimp (muzzled, to eliminate the teeth factor, for fairness' sake) against an enraged 200lb powerlifter.

I'd also like to have seen an ape of comparable mass go up against this shotokan master (his name currently escapes me). Supposedly, this guy could strike with the power of a bear. The mismatched size of the animals might actually be to the gorillas advantage. Shaq vs a 150 pound hyena would end up with Shaq dead if Shaq must attack it with his arms and face. An attacking Kodiak might be making a mistake to attack as normal with biting if the gorilla has the potential ability to rip it's face apart while defending it's life which it would be doing if faced with such an intimidating foe. Most of a gorillas strength is in it's arms and the bears head is it's primary weapon. I'm pretty sure the only way a Kodiak would engage a gorilla is if it deemed the gorilla the only potential food source. How does a bear usually attack large prey? I'd guess that it charges and bites. If a silverback can survive the charge (and there's no reason to think that alone would kill it) then it would probably use it's arms and hands to defend itself from the biting. In that case the bear might end up getting it's jaws ripped apart as a primate defense from bites that even humans resort to when being bitten. No matter how large the animal, if the head receives significant damage it won't survive. Is there any reason to believe that a silverback could not maim the face of the kodiak by prying the biting bears jaws apart, something no other animal could conceivably do?

Originally posted by The MISTER
The mismatched size of the animals might actually be to the gorillas advantage. Shaq vs a 150 pound hyena would end up with Shaq dead if Shaq must attack it with his arms and face. An attacking Kodiak might be making a mistake to attack as normal with biting if the gorilla has the potential ability to rip it's face apart while defending it's life which it would be doing if faced with such an intimidating foe. Most of a gorillas strength is in it's arms and the bears head is it's primary weapon. I'm pretty sure the only way a Kodiak would engage a gorilla is if it deemed the gorilla the only potential food source. How does a bear usually attack large prey? I'd guess that it charges and bites. If a silverback can survive the charge (and there's no reason to think that alone would kill it) then it would probably use it's arms and hands to defend itself from the biting. In that case the bear might end up getting it's jaws ripped apart as a primate defense from bites that even humans resort to when being bitten. No matter how large the animal, if the head receives significant damage it won't survive. Is there any reason to believe that a silverback could not maim the face of the kodiak by prying the biting bears jaws apart, something no other animal could conceivably do? You seem to keep focusing on the gorilla attacking the bear's jaws (which, may I remind you, are not the bear's only weapons: it does use its claws as readily). AFAIK, that's not what gorillas usually do (as outlined in a previous post). The only time I've seen that type of tactical forethought in an ape is from King Kong. And he also boxed and knew judo. And as for Shaq: as big as he is, he will not attack with the utter abandon of a wild animal. That feral ferocity, in and of itself, carries a lot of weight, so to speak.

Sure, the gorilla could do damage, but I don't see it winning, in part because I just don't think gorilla's fight in the way you describe, and also, it would be easier for the bear to swipe and rip open flesh anywhere on the silverback's body, whereas the bear's jaws (should the gorilla takes this route, which, again, I don't think gorilla's normally do) present a much smaller, more specific target.

Needless to say (but heck, I'll say it anyway), I'm no where near an expert on this. Basically, a gorilla could win, but that's not where'd I'd place my money.

Sorry for the double post, but I found these interesting...

How gorillas fight:
(fight starts at around 25 seconds; sorry for any ad which may precede the video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZItE4FQU784&feature=related


How bears fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmLrhvOXylU

Basically, both seem to prefer grappling, the bear especially so. Plus, gorillas seem to use their mouths/teeth mostly to intimidate; bears actually bite.

Admittedly, the bear fight seems much more intense. Still, I think this gives a fairly good idea how the two would approach one another, fighting style-wise.

That's how a gorilla fights another gorilla. They're smart and they wouldn't employ those same tactics against a bear, as it would be a disadvantage considering the bear's massive weight advantage.

In this fight, the gorilla would stay mobile and nimble, using the great reach advantage his gorillie-arms give him to jab and move; jab and move, slowly wearing him down until he makes an error, then the gorilla would move in to grapple and take the bear out via a rear-naked-choke.

There may or may not be an eye-gouging or two, really depends how dastardly the gorilla is.

GSP = Gorilla St. Pierre

Originally posted by Robtard
That's how a gorilla fights another gorilla. They're smart and they wouldn't employ those same tactics against a bear, as it would be a disadvantage considering the bear's massive weight advantage.

In this fight, the gorilla would stay mobile and nimble, using the great reach advantage his gorillie-arms give him to jab and move; jab and move, slowly wearing him down until he makes an error, then the gorilla would move in to grapple and take the bear out via a rear-naked-choke.

There may or may not be an eye-gouging or two, really depends how dastardly the gorilla is. The bear would just get stronger as it got angrier.

Originally posted by Mindship
The bear would just get stronger as it got angrier. Was the bear hit by a gamma bomb?

Originally posted by Mindship
The bear would just get stronger as it got angrier.

That's actually mostly a myth; then there's the fact that gorilla's often chant while fighting and these chants are known to placate their adversary.

Originally posted by Robtard
That's actually mostly a myth; then there's the fact that gorilla's often chant while fighting and these chants are known to placate their adversary. -- does V8 headslap --

'Nam Magilla Renge Kyo'

Of course.

Gorilla St. Pierre = Jigglypuff

Originally posted by Robtard
That's how a gorilla fights another gorilla. They're smart and they wouldn't employ those same tactics against a bear, as it would be a disadvantage considering the bear's massive weight advantage.

In this fight, the gorilla would stay mobile and nimble, using the great reach advantage his gorillie-arms give him to jab and move; jab and move, slowly wearing him down until he makes an error, then the gorilla would move in to grapple and take the bear out via a rear-naked-choke.

There may or may not be an eye-gouging or two, really depends how dastardly the gorilla is.
If the gorilla was really smart it would try to run for the hills rather than take on the superior bear.

Originally posted by Mindship
You seem to keep focusing on the gorilla attacking the bear's jaws (which, may I remind you, are not the bear's only weapons: it does use its claws as readily). AFAIK, that's not what gorillas usually do (as outlined in a previous post). The only time I've seen that type of tactical forethought in an ape is from King Kong. And he also boxed and knew judo. And as for Shaq: as big as he is, he will not attack with the utter abandon of a wild animal. That feral ferocity, in and of itself, carries a lot of weight, so to speak.

Sure, the gorilla could do damage, but I don't see it winning, in part because I just don't think gorilla's fight in the way you describe, and also, it would be easier for the bear to swipe and rip open flesh anywhere on the silverback's body, whereas the bear's jaws (should the gorilla takes this route, which, again, I don't think gorilla's normally do) present a much smaller, more specific target.

Needless to say (but heck, I'll say it anyway), I'm no where near an expert on this. Basically, a gorilla could win, but that's not where'd I'd place my money. The reason I'm focused on the jaws is because the gorilla is much smaller than the kodiak and I don't think that it stands much of a chance attacking anything other than the head. The thing that makes this fight interesting to me is the unknown ability of a lone male silverback to defend itself against large predators. I'm thinking that a gorilla that is in fear for it's life will be a hard kill even for a kodiak and that the kodiak may actually get killed trying to make a meal of an animal that is far stronger than a kodiak would figure. Being much larger than a silverback, a hungry kodiak might try to make a meal out of this unknown creature (as they don't share habitats) and the gorilla might kill it fighting for it's life.

The gorilla is the only animal on earth that has the hands capable of prying biting jaws apart as a defense while pinned by a large predator. Also fear is something that makes adrenaline surge and I'm sure a hungry attacking kodiak would get a gorilla fighting much more aggressively than a fight with another gorilla. The gorilla fight in that video was interesting but it seems the intelligence of the gorillas seems to be a factor as they appear to be evaluating the strength of their opponent mentally rather than only relying on physical aggression.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If the gorilla was really smart it would try to run for the hills rather than take on the superior bear.

This is in the Thunderdome.

Cmon! Do people really think that the cousin to humans with a huge strength and durability boost would get overpowered by a bear? A silverback is the supreme mix of POWER,agility,and intelligence. It's speed and strength are far far far beyond ours and a very powerful and agile skilled wrestler could engage a de-clawed muzzled bear of about 300 lbs. The bear would not lose but the human would not die either. A 300 muzzled silverback would destroy the wrestler quickly.

A 450 lb silverback is a brick of muscle, Has more dexterity than the best human athlete, and has primal skill to use that combo to kill to survive. The bear would flee or die IMO.

Thought I'd bump this thread. I'm bored.

Kodiak Bear wins via ridiculous power and it's nasty claws. A kodiak is said to have the power to decapitate a horse with one swipe. It also takes down elk and bison minimal effort. The gorilla is no slouch, so it could do some damage as well, but a powerful swipe from a kodiak would be more than a crippling blow.

Here's some fights that I think would be better:

Bengal Tiger vs Silverback Gorilla (don't think this is crazy, tigers are ridiculously strong, fast, and agile and have been known to kill brown bears, and even Indian Elephants).

Allosaurus vs Bull African Elephant

Tyrannosaurus vs Wooly Mammoth

Ceratosaurus vs Allosaurus

I'm done. Sorry for bumping guys but I was bored.

^Can't edit anymore, but that post was supposed to say Carnotaurus vs Ceratoraurus instead of Ceratosaurus vs Allosaurus.

Silverback is much stronger than people are giving it credit for. i was watching Animal Planet and saw this evaluation or something on the silverback (maybe for the animal fighting show or something) and they said a silverback is strong enough to press two cars over its head.

now i know that the kodiak is heavy but i highly doubt that gives it any advantage if the gorilla can do that.

and the gorilla is so powerfully muscled that i doubt one swipe from the bear would do it in. the gorilla is too strong durable and smart for the bear

Originally posted by juggerman
Silverback is much stronger than people are giving it credit for. i was watching Animal Planet and saw this evaluation or something on the silverback (maybe for the animal fighting show or something) and they said a silverback is strong enough to press two cars over its head.

By cars do you mean model cars made of Styrofoam?

The Smartcar, one of the smallest cars out there, is still a whopping 1,600 lbs. Multiply that by two. There's no way a gorilla is pressing that. Let alone larger cars, the sort of cars people are referring to when they say "cars".

it was two foor door cars of average size.

im just telling you what the "experts" on the show said and assuming it all wasnt just hogwash they probably know more about it then you or i so just because you dont agree or believe it wouldnt make it any less true

The show was "The Most Extreme" and they were looking for the strongest animal. I think a beetle won

Originally posted by juggerman
Silverback is much stronger than people are giving it credit for. i was watching Animal Planet and saw this evaluation or something on the silverback (maybe for the animal fighting show or something) and they said a silverback is strong enough to press two cars over its head.

now i know that the kodiak is heavy but i highly doubt that gives it any advantage if the gorilla can do that.

and the gorilla is so powerfully muscled that i doubt one swipe from the bear would do it in. the gorilla is too strong durable and smart for the bear

Do you know how difficult it would be to decapitate a horse? They're necks are ridiculously thick. A bear can cut through all that muscle with one swipe. If a bear hit a gorilla like that it would cause serious damage, and probably make the gorilla run away, and that's only if it didn't kill it.

Studies have also shown that a bear's intelligence is comparable to the higher primates (or something like that).

Originally posted by juggerman
The show was "The Most Extreme" and they were looking for the strongest animal. I think a beetle won

I've seen that, and they get things wrong. There's no way a gorilla can lift two sedans, unless it's king kong.

The p4p strongest animal was the Rhinoceros beetle, they can lift something like 850 times their own weight.

Originally posted by juggerman
the gorilla is too strong durable and smart for the bear

there is nothing in a gorilla's habitat that it would have had to evolved to deal with that compares to a large bear, let alone a Kodiak, whereas grizzles have adapted to fight each other for mates and territory.

A gorilla might be too quick for a grizzly to pin down, or it may be too large for the bear to think it is worth the energy it would take to kill, but I don't see a gorilla putting down a fully grown Kodiak.

Originally posted by juggerman
it was two foor door cars of average size.

Originally posted by Insomniatric
Studies have also shown that a bear's intelligence is comparable to the higher primates (or something like that).

woah..... wut?

Originally posted by inimalist
woah..... wut?

It's something I heard a long time ago. I just googled it, and I found one article that talks about how bears can "count" as well as primates. It was black bears though.

http://io9.com/5918890/study-proves-bears-can-count-as-well-as-primates

Originally posted by Insomniatric
It's something I heard a long time ago. I just googled it, and I found one article that talks about how bears can "count" as well as primates. It was black bears though.

http://io9.com/5918890/study-proves-bears-can-count-as-well-as-primates

ya, I figured it would be some sort of one off trait everyone was "amazed" an animal could do as well as us amazing humans Its weird, for some reason even academics in the field of comparative psychology seem astonished when animals can produce behaviours that are similar to humans, as if, omfg, evolution wouldn't produce rats that can navigate well or crows that can figure out puzzles. Because those things have nothing to do with that organism's survival ffs. lol, sorry, not ranting at you...

EDIT: a similar thing happened when researchers found that chimps had a better working memory than humans, and all these news casts were like "omfg, chimps are smarter than humans!!" It is somewhat frustrating.

anyways, bears might have fantastic abilities related to their behaviours, but I would be astounded if they had "intelligence" even close to primates. Certainly, their physiology isn't really conducive to things like tool use.

Originally posted by inimalist
anyways, bears might have fantastic abilities related to their behaviours, but I would be astounded if they had "intelligence" even close to primates. Certainly, their physiology isn't really conducive to things like tool use.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/arctic-bears/bear-intelligence/779/

You should read this article. It talks about circus bears (they can be trained to balance on balls, ride skateboards, play musical instruments, etc).

The article mentions that bears are smarter than dogs, and I agree with that. I have a German Shepherd (the third most intelligent dog), and he's smart (hell of a lot smarter than my rottweilers), but I doubt he could ever play an instrument, lol.

They're probably not as smart as Primates, or dolphins, or crows, but they probably have a decent amount of intelligence.

Originally posted by Insomniatric
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/arctic-bears/bear-intelligence/779/

You should read this article. It talks about circus bears (they can be trained to balance on balls, ride skateboards, play musical instruments, etc).

The article mentions that bears are smarter than dogs, and I agree with that. I have a German Shepherd (the third most intelligent dog), and he's smart (hell of a lot smarter than my rottweilers), but I doubt he could ever play an instrument, lol.

They're probably not as smart as Primates, or dolphins, or crows, but they probably have a decent amount of intelligence.

lol, just to be a pedant, I don't think those kinds of hierarchies of intelligence are really relevant.

dogs are as smart as evolution needed them to be, and, in terms of being dogs, they are smarter than any other animal. Like, these comparisons by definition define intelligence in terms of various human qualities. So like, cool, bears can do some things dogs can't, but, if the skills were biased toward qualities more important to being dogs, there is no way bears would be thought of as smarter.

Like, crows are good problem solvers, but "smart?"... ermmm, idk

think of it this way, how much of what human (or dolphin) intelligence is comprised of is exclusively our language abilities? What your point, to me at least, sounds like is, primates, dolphins and crows are better at human measures of intelligence than bears are.

I think that's kind of the unspoken qualifier in all discussions of this kind.

Originally posted by inimalist
lol, just to be a pedant, I don't think those kinds of hierarchies of intelligence are really relevant.

dogs are as smart as evolution needed them to be, and, in terms of being dogs, they are smarter than any other animal. Like, these comparisons by definition define intelligence in terms of various human qualities. So like, cool, bears can do some things dogs can't, but, if the skills were biased toward qualities more important to being dogs, there is no way bears would be thought of as smarter.

Like, crows are good problem solvers, but "smart?"... ermmm, idk

think of it this way, how much of what human (or dolphin) intelligence is comprised of is exclusively our language abilities? What your point, to me at least, sounds like is, primates, dolphins and crows are better at human measures of intelligence than bears are.

Tbh, I'm not sure what you're saying. Of course a dog is better at being, well a dog than a bear would be, but that wasn't what I was saying.

I think to determine how intelligent an animal is, you would have to compare it to the most intelligent known animal (humans of course). I can't really think of any other way to fairly judge it, but I'm just a teenager lol, so I'm far from an expert.

Bears are known to open doors on cars if they smell food inside. You can probably train a dog to open a door (I saw one guy who trained his German shepherd to open the refrigerator door), but bears figure it out themselves. Bears also have a large brain compared to their body size.

Bears in the wild also use tools. They use sticks to scratch themselves, and they play by picking up rocks and throwing them at each other. Polar bears are known to throw chunks of ice at walruses to bludgeon them and knock them out.

For the record, crows are more than just good problem solvers. They are known to use tools to solve problems. Also, they can remember people's faces and recognize them the next time they see them. They also have excellent memories, they have been known to memorize a garbage man's driving schedule.

Scientists did a test with a group of rooks (type of crow), where they had a tube of water with a worm in it. The water level was just low enough that the crow couldn't reach it, which obviously meant that they couldn't reach the worm. So, they dropped pebbles in the water until it was high enough that they could get the worm. They also went for the bigger pebbles so that it would displace more water.

In a similar test, a crow was given a straight wire, and bent it so that it could grab the worm.

Crows have also been known to drop nuts in front of cars so that it could crack them. They also take time to memorize the pattern of traffic lights. They drop the nut when the light is green, and retrieve them when it is red. I'm no expert, but that sounds pretty smart.

Originally posted by Mindship
Tiger vs Lion = better debate.

A tiger has every physical advantage possible. They are much stronger, they can run with an ox in their mouth, and have been seen traveling upriver carrying 500 pound animals on their back. A tiger was seen dragging a 3,300 pound guar a quarter of a mile.

In 1960's cage fights, they pitted lions against Siberian Tigers, and found that the lion would usually win, but the Bengal tigers routinely mopped the floor with the lions.

There is documented cases of tigers killing Indian Rhinos, indian elephants, and Saltwater crocodiles.

do you have any evidence that a silverback cant lift two cars like that besides you just thinking they cant?

not trying to be a dick but im more inclined to believe in the results of the tv show where they actually do tests to determine animal stats over someones unbacked opinion.

granted they could be wrong or just have made it up but is there any proof of that?

Originally posted by juggerman
do you have any evidence that a silverback cant lift two cars like that besides you just thinking they cant?

not trying to be a dick but im more inclined to believe in the results of the tv show where they actually do tests to determine animal stats over someones unbacked opinion.

granted they could be wrong or just have made it up but is there any proof of that?
Wow, a double negative proof fallacy.

So far you haven't even proved that they did say this at all, for all we known you could have imagined it.

Instead of getting defensive when people question your anecdotal evidence of an outrageous claim why not do a little research to confirm whether there's anything to support it?

do we always have to prove research was done and done properly when we quote a study? im not saying its 100% true but im more inclined to believe an example given by a source that has done some research then someone simply saying "thats stupid and cant be true"

and if you were reading posts youd notice that Insomniatric said he has seen that episode too so unless we are having the same delusion id say it exists. nice try tho

cant be too hard to check out tho if you really want to see for yourself. i cant post thing from the computer im using

EDIT: i gave you the name of the show and what they were looking for in the episode what more do you need?

Originally posted by juggerman
do we always have to prove research was done and done properly when we quote a study? im not saying its 100% true but im more inclined to believe an example given by a source that has done some research then someone simply saying "thats stupid and cant be true"

and if you were reading posts youd notice that Insomniatric said he has seen that episode too so unless we are having the same delusion id say it exists. nice try tho

cant be too hard to check out tho if you really want to see for yourself. i cant post thing from the computer im using

EDIT: i gave you the name of the show and what they were looking for in the episode what more do you need?

le sigh:

Originally posted by juggerman
The show was "The Most Extreme" and they were looking for the strongest animal. I think a beetle won

this:



http://en.allexperts.com/q/Wild-Animals-705/Gorilla-strength.htm



an interesting point is raised in this comparison between human and gorilla, especially given skill and such (there are no gorilla weightlifters, so we don't know their actual upper lifting limit; it is totally possible a gorilla could have 5-20 times the strength of a human but fail to lift with the same efficiency). The more modest (and generally more scientific/naturalist focused) sites put the upper body strength of a gorilla at about 6-10 times that of a human, whereas forum posters like to say 20. In terms of real numbers, I'm seeing nothing over 2 tons (at the absolute max, which I think is an entirely unsupported claim anyways), and given the average car (you claimed 4 door) is between 4000-5500 pounds, this means, at absolute max and totally unproven levels of strength, a gorilla could lift the weight of one, maybe.

Originally posted by juggerman
do we always have to prove research was done and done properly when we quote a study? im not saying its 100% true but im more inclined to believe an example given by a source that has done some research then someone simply saying "thats stupid and cant be true"

Umm...yes, if you want to be believed.


I'm not doubting the episode exists. I'm doubting your recollection of the statistic.


If you make the claim, then the burden is on you to support it, not on me to run around doing your work for you.

i was only saying what i remembered from the show which was two cars above its head.

i didnt recall the actual weight which is why i didnt quote one and i thought it was two four doors but yes i could be wrong since its been years since i saw it.

thats stupid. so i have to go behind every study and redo it to prove its correct? come now



like i said earlier i cant post on this computer so i gave you the info to look yourself. if your too lazy to do it thats ok but its there

Originally posted by juggerman
thats stupid. so i have to go behind every study and redo it to prove its correct? come now

No. You just have to prove it exists and prove it says what you say it says. And then, if there's cause for more skepticism you'd probably want to offer some reason to trust the study's validity.

Oh, and I'd never call anything from Animal Faceoff a "study".


I'm not making positive claims, I'm expressing skepticism. If you want to convince me, then you're going to have to put at least a modicum of effort into backing up your claims.

Saying "it's there" is just a dodge. If a man claims to be a great writer you would want to see his writing, not just hear him tell you "yeah I have a great work somewhere" and if someone wants a Nobel Prize in Physics he actually has to present his findings and support them, not say "just go out and look for it, you'll see I'm right, if not whatever, it's there".

From Disovery Channel's own website for the series The Most Extreme:

Episode 11 - Strength:



http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/mostextreme/episode/episode_01.html

from Wikipedia:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla

So, even if we use the obese weight (which we shouldn't, obesity is known to have massively negative impacts on physical strength), that puts the max a gorilla can lift at 6000 lbs, only slightly more than a single sedan (4000-5500lbs).

The show might have used the obese weight and much smaller cars, but your claim that it could lift 2 full size sedans over its head is not supported.

though, tbh, this is really easy to look up and sort of indicates you didn't even try...

Originally posted by inimalist


though, tbh, this is really easy to look up and sort of indicates you didn't even try...
But ini, should, like...I mean, bros leik...should ppl rally be hald acuntable for what words htey put in their posts?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
But ini, should, like...I mean, bros leik...should ppl rally be hald acuntable for what words htey put in their posts?

60% of the time when I cite links it just takes you to a rick roll

but did you watch the episode? particularly the gorilla part? the little green demo has it lifting two cars

and your right i didnt look because im on my work computer which wont let me post links or videos so im kinda stuck saying go look. try youtube they seem to have everything



twas the most extreme

A grizzly bear is supposed to be the most dangerous & formidable land predator on Earth. Have any of you seen Project: Grizzly? A swat from his paw is like the equivalent of getting hit with a 500 pound weight!