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Ok ladies and gents it's time for a match to close out 2010!


This fight is on Earth. No people are here, the environment is the same. The combatants are....

Surfer and Thanos, representing team Cosmic Death.

and...

Wally West and Zoom, representing team Speedstomp.

Who wins in this match of legendary proportions!? Here are the stipulations:

No CIS: Characters can do whatever they want to each other or the environment. *Besides* blow up the planet.

No PIS: No nonsensical feats.

No BS: Characters aren't holding back and will fight as intensely as possible. No mercy. Can end the match ASAP.

No BFR: There is no bfr. That's the one exception. Shouldn't matter, but didn't want to waste the debate on this point. This includes "blowing up the planet". They start at standard distance .5km apart.

No Shields: Before the match.

Annnnnd we're off. (I would have done a poll, but those are just hacked too much it seems.)

Surfer or Thanos nukes the planet or teleports them into a volcano or something

Team 2's powerset is certainly more powerful than team 1's.

Originally posted by Solidus Black
Surfer or Thanos nukes the planet or teleports them into a volcano or something
Flash has run in space and both are faster than teleports

Originally posted by Solidus Black
Surfer or Thanos nukes the planet or teleports them into a volcano or something Can't do that.

Team 1, easily. More powerful, more durable, far more intelligent, the power to destroy whatever terrain they happen to be on, shields, the ability to tank any attacks whereas team 2 doesn't have that option here.

No planetary destruction?

Originally posted by Solidus Black
No planetary destruction? No. I didn't want to have a huge debate on that for eons, because it would take away from the match.

Surfer solos

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No. I didn't want to have a huge debate on that for eons, because it would take away from the match. Ah, just saw that.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer solos By?

Team 2 wins.

While Zoom is blitzing Thanos/Surfer, Wally steals their speed.

Originally posted by Galan007
Team 2 wins.

While Zoom is blitzing Thanos/Surfer, Wally steals their speed. I tend to forget about the speed steal in these matches. I remember when I though the had to be very close to do it at first.

How long do you think it would take to drain their speed?

Not long at all.

...Or Wally could also drop the multiverse on their domepieces, ftw. IMO.

No CIS in a thread involving Wally West?

Heh.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not long at all.

...Or Wally could also drop the multiverse on their domepieces, ftw. IMO. Lol, the Great Dane poster.

Were you here during the "Flash Prime" fiasco?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No CIS in a thread involving Wally West?

Heh. Flash gets one shotted?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
By?

Surfer can perceive things at light speed... that's all it would take is one good blast and the fight is done. Surfer could withstand assaults from them but surfers versatility could mess them up. Hell, surfer probably could take their powers away from them if he wanted.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Lol, the Great Dane poster.

Were you here during the "Flash Prime" fiasco? I remember GD, but I'm not sure about 'Flash Prime'...?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Flash gets one shotted?

That's not what's going to happen.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's not what's going to happen. You don't think Thanos has the power to one shot him ?

Did I say that?

Originally posted by Galan007
I remember GD, but I'm not sure about 'Flash Prime'...? He went so fast he dropped the multiverse on people's domepieces uhuh:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=336213&pagenumber=1

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3614234& amp;highlight=title%3A%28Flash+Prime%29#post361423
4

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3608855& amp;highlight=title%3A%28Flash+Prime%29#post360885
5

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3605979& amp;highlight=title%3A%28Flash+Prime%29#post360597
9

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=336175&highlight=title%3A%28Flash+Prime%29

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3641345& amp;highlight=title%3A%28Flash+Prime%29#post364134
5

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5524590& amp;highlight=title%3A%28Flash+Prime%29#post552459
0Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's not what's going to happen. Two shots?

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer can perceive things at light speed... that's all it would take is one good blast and the fight is done. Surfer could withstand assaults from them but surfers versatility could mess them up. Hell, surfer probably could take their powers away from them if he wanted. He can perceive but he can't react faster. Flash hit's him like he hit the white martian with the IMP. 1,000 times before he can blink. uhuh

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Did I say that? So now you think Thanos can oneshot him ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
So now you think Thanos can oneshot him ? I believe he's saying Thanos won't have the chance.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So now you think Thanos can oneshot him ?

If his able to blast a stopped Flash, then yea, he more than likely could.

That doesn't mean I think it will happen.

Team 1 mainly because of surfer. Surfer can possibly catch them both then if he gets them down thanos can see them and put them down.

Sans that team 2 stomps.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I believe he's saying Thanos won't have the chance. I've seen no proof he can even kill Thanos not that that would do any good.



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If his able to blast a stopped Flash, then yea, he more than likely could.

That doesn't mean I think it will happen. Forceblock.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Team 1 mainly because of surfer. Surfer can possibly catch them both then if he gets them down thanos can see them and put them down.

Sans that team 2 stomps. How would he catch them? Full out no BS Flash and Zoom cover that small distance and pummel him IMO. That doesn't get into their more exotic abilities. If they're locked in ticks of a second then everything happens simultaneously. Flash full out would be a multitude faster than light in speed and reaction time.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Team 2's powerset is certainly more powerful than team 1's.

Brucey making stupid posts again I see

Originally posted by Galan007
Team 2 wins.

While Zoom is blitzing Thanos/Surfer, Wally steals their speed.

How are they blitzing though. As soon as the fight starts Thanos teleports up up and away. Same with Surfer. How exactly is he going to blitz them?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How are they blitzing though. As soon as the fight starts Thanos teleports up up and away. Same with Surfer. How exactly is he going to blitz them? Thanos has to initiate it, he isn't beyond the reaction times of either of these guys in an all out, no BS match. Flash can run in the air, and Zoom can go with Flash in time back where the match starts as well.

with no PIS or CIS.. Thanos starts with his shields up.. which means not only would they have a hard time penetrating his best shields.... those shields would allow him and surfer to get in the air away from zoom.
they don't even need to .get in the air... being behind the shields.. would allow either Thanos or Surfer to render zoom useless with matter manipulating the battlefield or omni directional blast which would put Flash down and probably Zoom.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
with no PIS or CIS.. Thanos starts with his shields up.. which means not only would they have a hard time penetrating his best shields.... those shields would allow him and surfer to get in the air away from zoom.
they don't even need to .get in the air... being behind the shields.. would allow either Thanos or Surfer to render zoom useless with matter manipulating the battlefield or omni directional blast which would put Flash down and probably Zoom. No shields up at the start... I meant to include that, but I suppose I didn't. I'll have to ask a mod. Though PIS and CIS wouldn't necessarily change that.

They still have energy stealing and time moving abilities. Surfer is gone at the start. I think Thanos could be dumped in the speed force.

Really unrestricted Wally? I see team two pulling a majority

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No shields up... I meant to include that, but I suppose I didn't. I'll have to ask a mod.

They still have energy stealing and time moving abilities. Surfer is gone at the start. I think Thanos could be dumped in the speed force. Thought you said no bfr

Originally posted by iceman24567
Thought you said no bfr

The speedforce exists everywhere, he'll be there and not there.

Team one stomp:

Thanos do his shields, and mindrape.
Surfer go intengible, and stomp.
Thanos or Surfer bring them in the astral plane, and stomp.

Pick your poison.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The speedforce exists everywhere, he'll be there and not there.
Technically its still bfring though

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Team one stomp:

Thanos do his shields, and mindrape.
Surfer go intengible, and stomp.
Thanos or Surfer bring them in the astral plane, and stomp.

Pick your poison. I specified no bfr, he can use shields, but not at startup.Originally posted by iceman24567
Technically its still bfring though I was being facetious, he can just freeze him or use the speed formula.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How are they blitzing though. As soon as the fight starts Thanos teleports up up and away. Same with Surfer. How exactly is he going to blitz them? That's only if you assume they would be able to move before Zoom and Wally were pummeling them.

They wouldn't.

As I stated even if they get the jump on him... they wouldn't put THanos down before he is in the air with shields up and sending out omni directional blasts time and time again. Unless of course you feel like they can KO Thanos quicker then less than a second that it would take for him to activate his shields..

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
As I stated even if they get the jump on him... they wouldn't put THanos down before he is in the air with shields up and sending out omni directional blasts time and time again. So in your argument you think he survives long enough to initiate the shield and get in the air?

Of course. Please point me to any incident where Thanos was KO'd via blunt force Trauma... He's taken blows from people exponentionally more powerful than what this team can produce. Yet, you want me to believe they can KO him in less than a second which is all it would take for him to activate his shields... His best shields mind you, since this is a no PIS or CIS fight.

Per Dianna, Zoom can hit harder than Superman. He can also throw thousands/millions of punches in the time it takes him to finish one of HIS sentences.

If you don't think thousands/millions of Superman-esque punches delivered within the first few nanoseconds of the fight can significantly harm Thanos, then I don't know what to say.

They *will* be harder as they are going all out, no bs.^Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Of course. Please point me to any incident where Thanos was KO'd via blunt force Trauma... He's taken blows from people exponentionally more powerful than what this team can produce. Yet, you want me to believe they can KO him in less than a second which is all it would take for him to activate his shields... His best shields mind you, since this is a no PIS or CIS fight. Hmmm... the real problem is that them at their best really have an "eternity" to hit them all they want to. Greater than Superman Punches will hurt Thanos.

Wally IMP'ed Zom before he could blink, he could have hit him with 1 or 1000. If this them going *all* out, They move *much* faster than light. Zoom has no limits to his speed that have been shown and Flash going all out is a beast himself.

Was it ever eyplained where Zoom draws his strength from? I know he moves in his own time bubble for the speed, but what about the strength?

Originally posted by Galan007
Per Dianna, Zoom can hit harder than Superman. He can also throw thousands/millions of punches in the time it takes him to finish one of HIS sentences.

If you don't think thousands/millions of Superman-esque punches delivered within the first few nanoseconds of the fight can significantly harm Thanos, then I don't know what to say. Who have these punches beaten on panel in this manner ?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Was it ever eyplained where Zoom draws his strength from? I know he moves in his own time bubble for the speed, but what about the strength? His powers are paradoxial, he just does. Kinda like his vibrating. Btw there is no Spider-Man in this thread, get out!!! uhuh

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
His powers are paradoxial, he just does. Kinda like his vibrating. Btw there is no Spider-Man in this thread, get out!!! uhuh http://collider.com/wp-content/image-base/Clubhouse/S/Spider-Man_misc/spider-man_comic_book_image_01.jpg

Now there is, you owe me an apology.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
http://collider.com/wp-content/image-base/Clubhouse/S/Spider-Man_misc/spider-man_comic_book_image_01.jpg

Now there is, you owe me an apology.

Good one.

Though with strength do you mean "striking power"? Then that is tied to his power. In terms of lifting strength he is very strong (he picked up someone with one hand). Nowhere near the other team though.

^ They've only been used on Dianna.

However, she's been hit by Superman, and said Zoom's punches hurt more. It doesn't get any more reliable then that. There are also scans showing Zoom throwing hundreds/thousands/millions of punches in the time it takes him to finish one of HIS sentences. We have the power behind his all-out punches, and we have the speed in which he can deliver them.

So since we know beyond the shadow of a doubt that Zoom is capable of both feats, we can reasonably assume that here, in a PIS/CIS-free environment where he will not be holding back, that he would put those two abilities together.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ They've only been used on Dianna.

However, she's been hit by Superman, and said Zoom's punches hurt more. It doesn't get any more reliable then that. There are also scans showing Zoom throwing hundreds/thousands/millions of punches in the time it takes him to finish one of HIS sentences. We have the power behind his all-out punches, and we have the speed in which he can deliver them.

So since we know beyond the shadow of a doubt that Zoom is capable of both feats, we can reasonably assume that here, in a PIS/CIS-free environment where he will not be holding back, that he would put those two abilities together. I am not saying he can't punch really fast I am saying did which character is the most powerful he's beaten by beating them to death quicker than they could mount anything in retaliation ?

Did this defeat WW ?

I also think Superman hits harder despite this one writer's take on it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not saying he can't punch really fast I am saying did which character is the most powerful he's beaten by beating them to death quicker than they could mount anything in retaliation ?

Did this defeat WW ?

I also think Superman hits harder despite this one writer's take on it. Zoom doesn't fight heroes that way. He fights them to strengthen them and not kill and destroy. He's gotten rid of some Rogue's before though.

He might not strike on the level of a "retcon punch" but I believe he is on the level. Plus you have Wally's IMP which definitely hits harder. Zoom has no limit to his speed, so he likely has no limit to his striking power, much like Flash.

Again, we know what Zoom CAN do under the optimal conditions offered in this thread... He CAN hit harder than Superman (whether you like it or not) and he CAN throw millions of punches in the time it takes for him to speak one of his sentences.

1+1=2 in my neck of the woods.

Originally posted by Galan007
Again, we know what Zoom CAN do under the optimal conditions offered in this thread... He CAN hit harder than Superman (whether you like it or not) and he CAN throw millions of punches in the time it takes for him to speak one of his sentences.

1+1=2 in my neck of the woods. It equals 5 over here.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Zoom doesn't fight heroes that way. He fights them to strengthen them and not kill and destroy. He's gotten rid of some Rogue's before though.

He might not strike on the level of a "retcon punch" but I believe he is on the level. Plus you have Wally's IMP which definitely hits harder. Zoom has no limit to his speed, so he likely has no limit to his striking power, much like Flash. We have to argue based on what we've seen him do. If he's never shown the strength to even ko WW there's no basis for assuming he can ko Surfer let alone Thanos since they seem to be far more durable and powerful than WW ever was.

Zoom's also gotten tagged before and beaten before by far less than either of these with less impressive reaction feats as well.

Originally posted by Galan007
Again, we know what Zoom CAN do under the optimal conditions offered in this thread... He CAN hit harder than Superman (whether you like it or not) and he CAN throw millions of punches in the time it takes for him to speak one of his sentences.

1+1=2 in my neck of the woods. If Superman hit her as many times as Zoom she'd be dead imo. I guess you think by this logic and this writer's take then that WW can survive thousands of Superman shots.

Maybe we can agree that Zoom hits harder than Superman has ever hitted Diana, I have a hard time believing he ever went all out on her.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If Superman hit her as many times as Zoom she'd be dead imo. I guess you think by this logic and this writer's take then that WW can survive thousands of Superman shots. Bad attempt at trying to make a point.

Zoom hit Dianna with Superman-level punches exactly four times. Four. It's perfectly logical that she survived. srsly

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Maybe we can agree that Zoom hits harder than Superman has ever hitted Diana, I have a hard time believing he ever went all out on her. I doubt that either as Superman has punched her to earth in one shot with temp ko'd her. If Supes held back just fifty punches to her face would kill her imo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We have to argue based on what we've seen him do. If he's never shown the strength to even ko WW there's no basis for assuming he can ko Surfer let alone Thanos since they seem to be far more durable and powerful than WW ever was.

Zoom's also gotten tagged before and beaten before by far less than either of these with less impressive reaction feats as well.

If Superman hit her as many times as Zoom she'd be dead imo. I guess you think by this logic and this writer's take then that WW can survive thousands of Superman shots. Not really though, because Zoom doesn't fight heroes to kill them, he even says "I can make you stronger..." To Diana.

Furthermore Zoom has destroyed buildings with a mere snap of his finger. He has the power to do far more than that with a punch, not to mention he was playing with Wondy in that fight.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Not really though, because Zoom doesn't fight heroes to kill them, he even says "I can make you stronger..." To Diana.

Furthermore Zoom has destroyed buildings with a mere snap of his finger. He has the power to do far more than that with a punch, not to mention he was playing with Wondy in that fight. Well until you can prove what these punches are capable of with regards to Thanos or Surfer it's just speculation.

Surfer was destroyed entire planets before and Thanos barely notices when he attacks him--preupgrade.

I honestly think either from team 1 solos.

Millions of Superman-level punches delivered in the first nanoseconds of the battle + IMPs + speed-stealing + Zoom-blasts + Speed force dumps + multiverse dropping, etc.

Just cannot imagine the speedsters losing.

Originally posted by Galan007
Millions of Superman-level punches delivered in the first nanoseconds of the battle + IMPs + speed-stealing + Zoom-blasts + Speed force dumps + multiverse dropping, etc.

Just cannot imagine the speedsters losing. Most of it is valid, no bfr however. Would you consider a speed force dump a bfr? Depends on what is done.

I'm curious on how you see the multiverse drop going.

Originally posted by Galan007
Millions of Superman-level punches delivered in the first nanoseconds of the battle + IMPs + speed-stealing + Zoom-blasts + Speed force dumps + multiverse dropping, etc.

Just cannot imagine the speedsters losing. When has he ever hit anyone one million times or more within the first nanosecond ?

These characters were never ever portrayed to be this deadly it's just silly to make this claim despite them never ever being in half this deadly all in the first nanosecond.

Thanos also reacted to the Surfer's best with movement with a headstart while fighting america so all he has to do is raise his shields and that's that. Forceblock--mind lobotomize.

Originally posted by Galan007
Millions of Superman-level punches delivered in the first nanoseconds of the battle + IMPs + speed-stealing + Zoom-blasts + Speed force dumps + multiverse dropping, etc.

Just cannot imagine the speedsters losing.

My friend,

Please show me either of these guys speed blitzing and hiting someone with 1 million punches in a nanosecond or 2 nanoseconds.

It never happened but galan is making good points though about this fight... kind of making me lean towards the speedsters. I can't remember any flashes throwing a million punches... the max that I remember is a thousand and that was in a second, not nano second. A thousand punches more powerful than superman punches should drop them and quan, superman didn't one shot diana, you have to look at everything that happened to her on the way to the sun... all of his attacks were directed towards her skull before the temporary ko.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
My friend,

Please show me either of these guys speed blitzing and hiting someone with 1 million punches in a nanosecond or 2 nanoseconds. Yeah, the nanoseconds thing is only my opinion. All I know for sure is that Zoom has delivered millions of punches in the time it took him to finish one of HIS sentences. So they were definitely delivered very rapidly.

Hell if Flash can rescue 532,000 people in .00001 microseconds, he can most certainly hit that fast (and faster) and that's nowhere *near* his best feats. Zoom is far faster.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9098/z14dz0.jpg

That's him hitting Diana. I can understand that Supes has some incredible plot device feats, but those hits are definitely on his level, not to mention Zum being IMP'ed (which Flash could have done 1,000 times). Those are Superman level hits, and probably harder seeing as they are going *all* out. (CIS and PIS off).

Zoom can level an area with a snap of his fingers. He has never had a max speed.

http://img68.imageshack.us/f/z18om0.jpg/
http://img68.imageshack.us/f/z19sq7.jpg/

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Hell if Flash can rescue 532,000 people in .00001 microseconds, he can most certainly hit that fast (and faster) and that's nowhere *near* his best feats. Zoom is far faster.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9098/z14dz0.jpg

That's him hitting Diana. I can understand that Supes has some incredible plot device feats, but those hits are definitely on his level, not to mention Zum being IMP'ed (which Flash could have done 1,000 times). Those are Superman level hits, and probably harder seeing as they are going *all* out. (CIS and PIS off).

Zoom can level an area with a snap of his fingers. He has never had a max speed.

http://img68.imageshack.us/f/z18om0.jpg/
http://img68.imageshack.us/f/z19sq7.jpg/

Yeah... Zoom is a beast.

No.

This is a The Beast.

http://www.fantastic-four.nl/beast.gif

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No.

This is a The Beast.

http://www.fantastic-four.nl/beast.gif

Lol

Damn... hank is hideous.

Too ugly for you eh?

a few things... first... I do of course believe those punches would eventually and maybe even some what quickly hurt Thanos. My assertion is this... If you're going to have someone harder than superman... Tome superman's best punch might not move Thanos.. punching in quick succession certainly would move him backwards.. now of course Zoom could very quickly be on top of his again throwing move punches. Okay.

However, in that time to do so.. Thanos will imo have an opportunity to either raise his shiedls... and or omni directional blast. Why I believe this is for three reaons. First, his shields only require voice activation, touching and or by thought. Pretty quickly they can be raised when you conisder my next point...

his reaction time. Sure, thanos is no speedster one thing he has shown are good reactions time. I'm thinking of the Maker incident with him point blank deflecting her blast (some might say ftl speed or cheetah speed) What we do know is that it would be quick and for him to react to it and deflect it means that's pretty good reaction speed. The others are reacting to FO bull rush. Raising his arm quick enough after thor throws his hammer to stop it cold halfway to him. Lastly reacting to a spped blitz from gayM who had just blitzed surfer with ease.

These reactions will enable him to either raise his shields after a decent amount of shots being taken or to deliver an omni directional blast or lastly to teleport away to regain his composure.

Which brings me to my next point sure flash or Zoom will get punches off against Thanos and quite a bit. The question then becomes IS that enough to KO him and not allow him less than a second (referencing his reaction feats) to either raise his shields, teleport and or fire back. My answer is no. The reason being...Thanos durability.

Which I shouldn't really even need to reference right? We're talking imo what would be almost exponentionally amount more than what these guys can deliever. All of which lead me to believe that since I can't recal him ever being KO'd from blunt force trauma and if he has.. it's been so very rare. Upon not getting KO'd and a genius (far smarter than anybody in this fight) he will figure out exactly what needs to be accomplished and the best course of action to do so. Might you.. very quickly.

Now this is to say nothing of surfer who himself is really really quick.. quicker than thanos which very very good durability. Who like Thanos is exponentionally for versatile than either of these wo. They have so many exotic abilities at there disposal it's sick. They can matter manipulate the area.. Thanos could easily try TP assaults opon either and very likely succeed. This again woudl be not after 10 seconds. He does these things in seconds with thoughts as an mutant Eternal. Which lastly brings me to my next point..

Sure these guys are really fast.. crazy fst and pack a punch... Team 1 can take punishment.. but team two... not even close to the same. If there is the slighest of openings which I believe there will be for both.. and they make contact with a blast, punch, omni or whatever... game over. We've seen Zoom tagged and even restrained. Will be easy no.. will team two pummer team 1 for a bit, sure. Will team one eventually react and get off their shots, yes. At that point imo team 1 wins.

This fight is over before the "O" in the word Go sounds.

To move that fast requires thought processes that are even faster. Neither on Team 1 can perform at this speed level.

In the constructs of this thread, with no BS, Team 2 wins.

Surfer solos.

he's just as fast if not faster, and infinitely superior in power and durability.

Surfer IMPs their heads off.

can't speed steal from Surfer, it's the Power Cosmic not regular energy.

team 2 wins as instant as the fight starts

@kurupt...

I don't think shields would work... flash could easily vibrate through it. Tp doesn't work on them either... this was proven when the martian tried to tp blast flash and flash accelerated his brain cells. Omni blast wouldn't wrk either,... they could dance around that attack. These are beings that lives within a second... those blast would be moving in slow motion to them.

You also forgot about flash being able to steal thanos speed. He can start the fight off like that which would make thanos a statue and then proceed at destroying a standing still, no moving thanos all day if he wants. Thanos would eventually get koed after taking millions of high level superman punches.

Surfer exotic powers is the key factor here and he is the reason I am undecided and please don't say thay thanos can do everything the surfer can do because on panel he hasn't shown half of the versatility as the surfer (even though thanos is more powerful).

Originally posted by carver9
It never happened but galan is making good points though about this fight... kind of making me lean towards the speedsters. I can't remember any flashes throwing a million punches... the max that I remember is a thousand and that was in a second, not nano second. A thousand punches more powerful than superman punches should drop them and quan, superman didn't one shot diana, you have to look at everything that happened to her on the way to the sun... all of his attacks were directed towards her skull before the temporary ko. Those punches weren't more powerful than Superman's best though. One writer seems to think so but other writers have superman doing far more impressive things than getting lip serviced by WW.

I think Thanos's telepathy would be the key to victory (particularly since it's not dependent on motion). If he gets in the speedsters heads and creates an opening it's curtains.

These 2 guys throw up a shield around zoom and wally that changes based off their energy signatures and make them hamsters in balls.


whatever they want to do in those shields afterwards wins

This thread basically means that they take away SEVERAL of the means where T1 would basically stomp while completely unrestricting T2.

Nice. Fair thread.

Originally posted by carver9
@kurupt...

I don't think shields would work... flash could easily vibrate through it. Tp doesn't work on them either... this was proven when the martian tried to tp blast flash and flash accelerated his brain cells. Omni blast wouldn't wrk either,... they could dance around that attack. These are beings that lives within a second... those blast would be moving in slow motion to them.

You also forgot about flash being able to steal thanos speed. He can start the fight off like that which would make thanos a statue and then proceed at destroying a standing still, no moving thanos all day if he wants. Thanos would eventually get koed after taking millions of high level superman punches.

Surfer exotic powers is the key factor here and he is the reason I am undecided and please don't say thay thanos can do everything the surfer can do because on panel he hasn't shown half of the versatility as the surfer (even though thanos is more powerful).

You're correct in that Thanos can do what surfer does.. he just hasn't been in close to as many as sufer has.

Lastly, as I stated, Thanos has been shown to react to things in what could be FTL reflexes or at the very least incredibly fast. We should be talking about less than a second reaction speed. That is more than enough time to take some serious quick fast super fast punishement and get up his shields.

I've never seen anybody vibrate through Thanos shields.

If people are close enough to hit thanos.. energy radiating out from his body while hit anything in the immediate area

Martian isn't Thanos when it comes to TP or intelligence. Not even close to the same mind in every plausible area.

I don't know Surfers versatility is up there don't know if Thanos has matched him on panel actually i highly doubt he has

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
a few things... first... I do of course believe those punches would eventually and maybe even some what quickly hurt Thanos. My assertion is this... If you're going to have someone harder than superman... Tome superman's best punch might not move Thanos.. punching in quick succession certainly would move him backwards.. now of course Zoom could very quickly be on top of his again throwing move punches. Okay.

However, in that time to do so.. Thanos will imo have an opportunity to either raise his shiedls... and or omni directional blast. Why I believe this is for three reaons. First, his shields only require voice activation, touching and or by thought. Pretty quickly they can be raised when you conisder my next point...

his reaction time. Sure, thanos is no speedster one thing he has shown are good reactions time. I'm thinking of the Maker incident with him point blank deflecting her blast (some might say ftl speed or cheetah speed) What we do know is that it would be quick and for him to react to it and deflect it means that's pretty good reaction speed. The others are reacting to FO bull rush. Raising his arm quick enough after thor throws his hammer to stop it cold halfway to him. Lastly reacting to a spped blitz from gayM who had just blitzed surfer with ease.

These reactions will enable him to either raise his shields after a decent amount of shots being taken or to deliver an omni directional blast or lastly to teleport away to regain his composure.

Which brings me to my next point sure flash or Zoom will get punches off against Thanos and quite a bit. The question then becomes IS that enough to KO him and not allow him less than a second (referencing his reaction feats) to either raise his shields, teleport and or fire back. My answer is no. The reason being...Thanos durability.

Which I shouldn't really even need to reference right? We're talking imo what would be almost exponentionally amount more than what these guys can deliever. All of which lead me to believe that since I can't recal him ever being KO'd from blunt force trauma and if he has.. it's been so very rare. Upon not getting KO'd and a genius (far smarter than anybody in this fight) he will figure out exactly what needs to be accomplished and the best course of action to do so. Might you.. very quickly.

Now this is to say nothing of surfer who himself is really really quick.. quicker than thanos which very very good durability. Who like Thanos is exponentionally for versatile than either of these wo. They have so many exotic abilities at there disposal it's sick. They can matter manipulate the area.. Thanos could easily try TP assaults opon either and very likely succeed. This again woudl be not after 10 seconds. He does these things in seconds with thoughts as an mutant Eternal. Which lastly brings me to my next point..

Sure these guys are really fast.. crazy fst and pack a punch... Team 1 can take punishment.. but team two... not even close to the same. If there is the slighest of openings which I believe there will be for both.. and they make contact with a blast, punch, omni or whatever... game over. We've seen Zoom tagged and even restrained. Will be easy no.. will team two pummer team 1 for a bit, sure. Will team one eventually react and get off their shots, yes. At that point imo team 1 wins. They have great power, but time is everything in this thread. When you have the power to hit someone with Superman level power 1,000 times before he can blink, you have some incredible power. Flash going at his best is so far faster than light it isn't funny. I'd even say trillions in his absolute best. This is him at his absolute peak. It's almost unfair.Originally posted by BobbyD
This fight is over before the "O" in the word Go sounds.

To move that fast requires thought processes that are even faster. Neither on Team 1 can perform at this speed level.

In the constructs of this thread, with no BS, Team 2 wins. Sounds right to me.Originally posted by janus77
Surfer solos.

he's just as fast if not faster, and infinitely superior in power and durability.

Surfer IMPs their heads off.

can't speed steal from Surfer, it's the Power Cosmic not regular energy. Surfer still uses kinetic energy, and I wasn't sure he could EMP.

Surfer isn't fighting at the speeds of Flash and Zoom all stops no holds barred.Originally posted by illadelph12
I think Thanos's telepathy would be the key to victory (particularly since it's not dependent on motion). If he gets in the speedsters heads and creates an opening it's curtains. Would he have the time to initiate it?Originally posted by snowdragon
These 2 guys throw up a shield around zoom and wally that changes based off their energy signatures and make them hamsters in balls.


whatever they want to do in those shields afterwards wins If they have the time, they still have tricks to deal with this.Originally posted by D_Dude1210
This thread basically means that they take away SEVERAL of the means where T1 would basically stomp while completely unrestricting T2.

Nice. Fair thread. Actually I talked to several people on both sides before making this to see if it were fair. I think they have the means regardless, but we didn't want to waste a thread with "Oh they blow up the planet1!!!shift"

you can't steal speed, just because they invent a nonsensical (by both absolute and relative standards in this case) power for Flash, it doesn't mean it trumps a +universal+ force in Marvel 616.

the Power Cosmic is what runs through Surfer, it empowers everything about him, including his kinetic output (just a name for an emanation of the Power Cosmic).

Further, Surfer has mapped galaxies whilst moving at trans-warp speeds. he's covered lightyears in seconds/fractions of a second.

he's clearly fast enough, which is why it is always a stomp in his favour whenever he faces Flash or his derivatives (Zoom's time trick means little as Surfer can manipulate chronal energies to mitigate against it or just through up a shield and look into the future then omni blast the runt out of it!).

Surfer solos 10/10.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I think Thanos's telepathy would be the key to victory (particularly since it's not dependent on motion). If he gets in the speedsters heads and creates an opening it's curtains. Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Would he have the time to initiate it?
Even if, Flash has already shown that he can outrun TP attacks, without CIS/PIS he definately will.

Team 2 would get some wins. Speedsters are formidable without holding back.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Even if, Flash has already shown that he can outrun TP attacks, without CIS/PIS he definately will.
TP attack speed must be a function of how fast the TP user can think, no?

I don't know if Thanos has Surfer like mental speeds but... Surfer has TP attack capabilities!

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Even if, Flash has already shown that he can outrun TP attacks, without CIS/PIS he definately will.

Isn't Wally immune to TP attacks?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Team 2 would get some wins. Speedsters are formidable without holding back.
how do they even get one win, if they can't blitz Surfer?

what does Surfer do, decide he doesn't want to use the Power Cosmic any more and turn back into Norrin Radd?

the (trillionth of a) pico second he flicks out a finger at Flash's skull that's the end of Flash.

next he just decides he's annoyed with the invisible (I'm being charitable here) love taps of Zoom (city/area destruction at the snap of a finger), he either jumps into sync and kills Zoom with all the effort it takes to raise an eyebrow or traps his bio-aura in a pink fluffy jumper.

Oh, they can blitz Surfer just fine. No holding back.

they can die trying... Surfer is the guy that blitzes FTL characters in Marvel .

Surfer is a snail compared to Flash.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Surfer is a snail compared to Flash.
still more than fast enough to annihilate Flash.

Originally posted by janus77
you can't steal speed, just because they invent a nonsensical (by both absolute and relative standards in this case) power for Flash, it doesn't mean it trumps a +universal+ force in Marvel 616.

the Power Cosmic is what runs through Surfer, it empowers everything about him, including his kinetic output (just a name for an emanation of the Power Cosmic).

Further, Surfer has mapped galaxies whilst moving at trans-warp speeds. he's covered lightyears in seconds/fractions of a second.

he's clearly fast enough, which is why it is always a stomp in his favour whenever he faces Flash or his derivatives (Zoom's time trick means little as Surfer can manipulate chronal energies to mitigate against it or just through up a shield and look into the future then omni blast the runt out of it!).

Surfer solos 10/10. It is just kinetic energy which include the signals sent to their brains needed to react. He can take that energy. Surfer has warped traveled fast, but hasn't fought anywhere near it. Flash has done tons of feats within the split of a second. Trillions of times light, going all out. Once he connects he does the damage necessary to keep going. Zoom has no known limit to his speed.

Silly or nonsensical in your opinion is irrelevant though. There are tons of characters with tons of powers, Surfer for instance. Flash has taken the kinetic energy of a planet thrown off course, he can use it here. It isn't his only option either.

Surfer/Thanos releases a planet-wide omnidirectional blast.

Zoom/Flash outruns it cuz it moves at light speed (w/c is pretty damned slow to him).

Sadly he runs out of places to run to and fries when the Omni-blast closes in.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Surfer/Thanos releases a planet-wide omnidirectional blast.

Zoom/Flash outruns it cuz it moves at light speed (w/c is pretty damned slow to him).

Sadly he runs out of places to run to and fries when the Omni-blast closes in. flash has run to the end of the universe, there definitly not going to run out of space to run

also these guys are fast enough to vibrate through the blast

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
flash has run to the end of the universe, there definitly not going to run out of space to run

also these guys are fast enough to vibrate through the blast

Ummm, Can Flash really "run on air" at lightspeed? Zoom can't fly since his powers work differently and I don't think it was stated in the stips that they're allowed to BFR themselves by running away from the planet.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Surfer/Thanos releases a planet-wide omnidirectional blast.

Zoom/Flash outruns it cuz it moves at light speed (w/c is pretty damned slow to him).

Sadly he runs out of places to run to and fries when the Omni-blast closes in. Couldn't they just hit them before they react. I wonder how phasing would work, or a time jump.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Couldn't they just hit them before they react. I wonder how phasing would work, or a time jump.

It's been shown that the Surfer can react to FTL attacks even at close range. Flash stands about half a mile away and would need to close the gap BEFORE the Surfer can even react at the slightest. IMO, I'm sure Flash/Zoom are fast enough to close the gap to IMP the Surfer, however, the Surfer would be able to detonate a cosmic Omni-blast after the first few punches land (w/c the Surfer would be able to tank).

The Flash would need to start running after that. He runs out of room to run, Omni-blast spreads to the ends of the planet, encompassing the whole place, then POOF! Flash-fried Flash.

Assuming that the Flash/Zoom can somehow find room to get away from the blast, this would give Thanos enough time to erect a forcefield, wherein the mind-raping shall begin...

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
It's been shown that the Surfer can react to FTL attacks even at close range. Flash stands about half a mile away and would need to close the gap BEFORE the Surfer can even react at the slightest. IMO, I'm sure Flash/Zoom are fast enough to close the gap to IMP the Surfer, however, the Surfer would be able to detonate a cosmic Omni-blast after the first few punches land (w/c the Surfer would be able to tank).

The Flash would need to start running after that. He runs out of room to run, Omni-blast spreads to the ends of the planet, encompassing the whole place, then POOF! Flash-fried Flash. Flash couldn't even react to Zoom while seriously amped, and Flash going all out is such a beast that he could have hit a Superman character (who can also react that fast) 1,000 times before he could blink, after a certain point actions start to happen simultaneously. I'd bet on them in a quickdraw. Either way they can still vibrate and time hop.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Flash couldn't even react to Zoom while seriously amped, and Flash going all out is such a beast that he could have hit a Superman character (who can also react that fast) 1,000 times before he could blink, after a certain point actions start to happen simultaneously. I'd bet on them in a quickdraw. Either way they can still vibrate and time hop.

Thing is, they'd need to be many thousands of times faster than the Surfer's perception (w/c has been shown as FTL) just to close the .5 mile gap AND pepper him with punches before the Surfer can react with a thought (w/c is all it takes to fire off an Omniblast). W/c I don't think is the case.

They vibrate thru objects by vibrating between molecules. Energy attacks dont have molecules. Do they have feats that show them vibrating thru energy attacks?

Also, time-hopping is something the Surfer can do just as easily as Flash, and wouldn't that count as self-BFR?

The instant Flash/Zoom go on the defensive, Thanos' shields go up and it's game over anyway.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Thing is, they'd need to be many thousands of times faster than the Surfer's perception (w/c has been shown as FTL) just to close the .5 mile gap AND pepper him with punches before the Surfer can react with a thought (w/c will be an Omniblast). W/c I don't think is the case.

They vibrate thru objects by vibrating between molecules. Energy attacks dont have molecules. Do they have feats that show them vibrating thru energy attacks?

Also, time-hopping is something the Surfer can do just as easily as Flash, and wouldn't that count as a BFR?

The instant Flash/Zoom go on the defensive, Thanos' shields go up and it's game over anyway. The problem is Zoom is always ahead of any timeline the combatants are in (so it doesn't count as a bfr if they are on the battlefield, which is Earth). Both characters have gone many thousand times faster than light. Then you have speed steal. To blitz a character on Superman's level before he can react shows that. No BS CIS Wally and Zoom is pretty much unbeatable until you get to a good skyfather.

On the forum anyways.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The problem is Zoom is always ahead of any timeline the combatants are in (so it doesn't count as a bfr if they are on the battlefield, which is Earth). Both characters have gone many thousand times faster than light. Then you have speed steal. To blitz a character on Superman's level before he can react shows that. No BS CIS Wally and Zoom is pretty much unbeatable until you get to a good skyfather.

On the forum anyways.

Time manipulation is one of the Surfer's powerset. Doing a time-attack really wouldn't cut it here and should also be excluded as the debate on this issue would prolly be longer than a "blow the planet up" attack w/c wasn't allowed to the cosmic team for the same reason. That is, unless you want to really demonstrate a bias here.

To speed steal, they need to get in close (or is there a time where he did it at a range?) w/c won't happen because the Omni blast would already be heading their way. Also, from my knowledge, speed stealing takes away KINETIC energy, not the reaction time of the Surfer's mind. Even frozen in place, he can still omni-blast.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Time manipulation is one of the Surfer's powerset. Doing a time-attack really wouldn't cut it here and should also be excluded as the debate on this issue would prolly be longer than a "blow the planet up" attack w/c wasn't allowed to the cosmic team for the same reason. That is, unless you want to really demonstrate a bias here.

To speed steal, they need to get in close (or is there a time where he did it at a range?) w/c won't happen because the Omni blast would already be heading their way. Also, from my knowledge, speed stealing takes away KINETIC energy, not the reaction time of the Surfer's mind. Even frozen in place, he can still omni-blast. Zoom's powers function off of him manitpulating his own time bubble. It hasn't been BFR in any debate. I've never seen it implied as such. Leaving the battlefield itself or removing it is a "battlefield *removal" in my book.

Even if we were going to play the blow the planet up thing, (which we could, I just didn't want to ruin the debate with it) we could also do the "Drop the multiverse on their domepieces" argument.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Zoom's powers function off of him manitpulating his own time bubble. It hasn't been BFR in any debate. I've never seen it implied as such. Leaving the battlefield itself or removing it is a "battlefield *removal" in my book.

Even if we were going to play the blow the planet up thing, (which we could, I just didn't want to ruin the debate with it) we could also do the "Drop the multiverse on their domepieces" argument.

Scans of this feat?

Blowing up the planet is something the Surfer and the other Heralds have demonstrated to be a regular ability. "Dropping the multiverse on ppl's domepieces" is a feat RIFE with PIS and/or hyberbole (kinda like Thor lifiting an infinitely increasing hammer). Unless you consider Flash to be a multiversal-lvl character (w/c he is not).

Scans of the time bubble?Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Scans of this feat?

Blowing up the planet is something the Surfer and the other Heralds have demonstrated to be a regular ability. "Dropping the multiverse on ppl's domepieces" is a feat RIFE with PIS and/or hyberbole (kinda like Thor lifiting an infinitely increasing hammer). Unless you consider Flash to be a multiversal-lvl character (w/c he is not).


Flash keeps going and achieves infinite mass... you know the rest...

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Scans of the time bubble?


Flash keeps going and achieves infinite mass... you know the rest...

W/c is what an IMP is, I know. But dropping a multiverse? Hyperbole (the aftermath of an attack like this would destroy the univere. did he destroy the universe?).

Like I said, Time Manipulation is as much the Surfer's powers as it is Zoom's. But going that route would really turn this into a circular debate. But if you mean that they use time manipulation the way Zoom does it to move quickly, then I don't see how it makes a difference here. He'd outrun the omniblast, but it'd eventually get him once he runs out of room.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Even if, Flash has already shown that he can outrun TP attacks, without CIS/PIS he definately will.

Flash isn't the only one in this fight. Zoom hasn't shown any resistance to it.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
flash has run to the end of the universe, there definitly not going to run out of space to run

also these guys are fast enough to vibrate through the blast

Self bfr for the lose?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
W/c is what an IMP is, I know. But dropping a multiverse? Hyperbole (the aftermath of an attack like this would destroy the univere. did he destroy the universe?).

Like I said, Time Manipulation is as much the Surfer's powers as it is Zoom's. But going that route would really turn this into a circular debate. But if you mean that they use time manipulation the way Zoom does it to move quickly, then I don't see how it makes a difference here. He'd outrun the omniblast, but it'd eventually get him once he runs out of room. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&q=userid%3A101622&sortby=&sortorder=&pagenumber=6

Great dane can explain the multiverse dump. ^

I am talking about time being a bfr. It's how their powers work.

Now. When has Surfer or Thanos used their ability like Zoom's and to his level of mastery?

To quote a respected debater:

Originally posted by h1a8
Your opponent can have the power of TOAA (minus the speed) and flash will still win.

Both Thanos and Surfer have time manipulation abilities.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Both Thanos and Surfer have time manipulation abilities. When have Surfer or Thanos used their ability to the level of Zoom, particularly in regards to reaction time and movement?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&q=userid%3A101622&sortby=&sortorder=&pagenumber=6

Great dane can explain the multiverse dump. ^

I am talking about time being a bfr. It's how their powers work.

Now. When has Surfer or Thanos used their ability like Zoom's and to his level of mastery?

You'll need to show this "multiverse dump" via scans or you really can't use it here.

Like I said, Zoom uses his "time bubble" power to speed up. The Surfer actually travels thru time and perceives time lines. If you allow a time attack, he'd just go back and time and un-exist Zoom (w/c he's done on-panel before).

Basically, Zoom's time power is just Zoom moving really really fast w/c won't help him once the omni-blast starts.


Originally posted by Tha C-Master
To quote a respected debater:


I seriously hope the term "respect" was meant in jest.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
You'll need to show this "multiverse dump" via scans or you really can't use it here.

Like I said, Zoom uses his "time bubble" power to speed up. The Surfer actually travels thru time and perceives time lines. Basically, it's just Zoom moving really really fast w/c won't help him once the omni-blast starts.





I seriously hope the term "respect" was meant in jest. Don't dis h1a8 fool. uhuh


Zoom travels and pops in and out of time at will. I was just saying that using his ability wouldn't be a bfr as it is the source of his powers.

This battle is really just haxx. The Flash and Zoom are characters that you either get stomped by or you stomp them, based on their powerset. Nothing stopping Flash from doing a trillion IMP's at the start of the match. He could nail a white martian with 1,000 of them as easily as one before he could react. Surfer doesn't really show to have Supes combat reflexes. Surfer *can* travel fast though. Furthermore perception isn't the same thing as reacting.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
When have Surfer or Thanos used their ability to the level of Zoom, particularly in regards to reaction time and movement?

When has Thanos been KO'd via blunt force? If they are hiting Surfer or thanos that means they are in range and getting hit by an omni directional blast as it radiates from their entire body. If they are making contact with Thanos or Surfer they are getting hit. Please show me zoom or flash.. dodging omni directional blast radiating from someone's body while punching them.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Don't dis h1a8 fool. uhuh


Zoom travels and pops in and out of time at will. I was just saying that using his ability wouldn't be a bfr as it is the source of his powers.

This battle is really just haxx. The Flash and Zoom are characters that you either get stomped by or you stomp them, based on their powerset. Nothing stopping Flash from doing a trillion IMP's at the start of the match. He could nail a white martian with 1,000 of them as easily as one before he could react. Surfer doesn't really show to have Supes combat reflexes. Surfer *can* travel fast though. Furthermore perception isn't the same thing as reacting.

Please show me Flash doing a trillion IMP's in less than a second.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Don't dis h1a8 fool. uhuh

h1's my b!tch, you're gonna WATCH me diss im and like it, punk!

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Zoom travels and pops in and out of time at will. I was just saying that using his ability wouldn't be a bfr as it is the source of his powers.

This battle is really just haxx. The Flash and Zoom are characters that you either stomp or you stomp them, based on their powerset. Nothing stopping Flash from doing a trillion IMP's at the start of the match. He could nail a white martian with 1,000 of them as easily as one before he could react. Surfer doesn't really show to have Supes combat reflexes. Surfer *can* travel fast though. Furthermore perception isn't the same thing as reacting.

Sigh.

FYI, Surfer's fastest travel feat pwns Zoom's or Flash's.

Perception indicates an ability to sense something. Sensing someting implies that it exists between your instances of thought. If he can perceive it then he can think about it. Thought is all the Surfer needs to trigger his Power Cosmic.

While Zoom might be faster than the Surfer's limbs are able to react. He is not faster than the Surfer being able to perceive him then trigger an omniblast via thinking it.

I'm not sure about that travel feat. It won't beat Zoom's and probably not Flash's going all out. Especially when Flash has done crazy things like going so fast that a duplicate of himself emerged and outraced... himself.

Percieving something isn't the same thing as reacting to it. Your body might process the information or send it to you, but the time it takes to send the signals (kinetic by the way) are another thing entirely. Basically, because I see something doesn't mean I can react to it.


Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
When has Thanos been KO'd via blunt force? If they are hiting Surfer or thanos that means they are in range and getting hit by an omni directional blast as it radiates from their entire body. If they are making contact with Thanos or Surfer they are getting hit. Please show me zoom or flash.. dodging omni directional blast radiating from someone's body while punching them. Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please show me Flash doing a trillion IMP's in less than a second. When you show me Thanos putting up shields, teleporting away and blowing up everything.

Being serious here now, I understand that we have to be consistent but it's pretty obvious that if a character can do something they can. Flash can IMP a white martian one or 1,000 times instantly, after a certain speed actions begin to happen simultaneously. He OHKO'ed a Superman level character and sent him into space.

Now hasn't Drax and Gamora given Thanos some pain?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I'm not sure about that travel feat. It won't beat Zoom's and probably not Flash's going all out. Especially when Flash has done crazy things like going so fast that a duplicate of himself emerged and outraced... himself.

Surfer's travelled so fast before, entire galaxies passed thru in a blur. Half a million light years in a second(s) (possibly less).

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/3076/silversurfervol3006us8.jpg

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/281/silversurfervol3007nn1.jpg

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Show me something of that magnitute that Zoom OR Flash has done on-panel and provide scans and maybe I'll believe you.

Percieving something isn't the same thing as reacting to it. Your body might process the information or send it to you, but the time it takes to send the signals (kinetic by the way) are another thing entirely. Basically, because I see something doesn't mean I can react to it.

Thought signals are electric in human bodies NOT kinetic. Doesn't work that way for the Surfer as his body is not human or anything resembling human anymore.

Your logic is wrong. It takes a THOUGHT to trigger the PC. If the Surfer can sense it and process it (w/c he's shown he can), he can react to it via omni-blast. Don't really know why you're not getting this. The logic is pretty simple.


Originally posted by Tha C-Master
When you show me Thanos putting up shields, teleporting away and blowing up everything.

Being serious here now, I understand that we have to be consistent but it's pretty obvious that if a character can do something they can. Flash can IMP a white martian one or 1,000 times instantly, after a certain speed actions begin to happen simultaneously. He OHKO'ed a Superman level character and sent him into space.

Now hasn't drax and Gamora given Thanos some pain?

Drax was designed to kill Thanos.

He was playing with Gamora and this was not thru his shields.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I'm not sure about that travel feat. It won't beat Zoom's and probably not Flash's going all out. Especially when Flash has done crazy things like going so fast that a duplicate of himself emerged and outraced... himself.

Percieving something isn't the same thing as reacting to it. Your body might process the information or send it to you, but the time it takes to send the signals (kinetic by the way) are another thing entirely. Basically, because I see something doesn't mean I can react to it.


When you show me Thanos putting up shields, teleporting away and blowing up everything.

Being serious here now, I understand that we have to be consistent but it's pretty obvious that if a character can do something they can. Flash can IMP a white martian one or 1,000 times instantly, after a certain speed actions begin to happen simultaneously. He OHKO'ed a Superman level character and sent him into space.

Now hasn't Drax and Gamora given Thanos some pain?

Okay, please show me the FASTEST the flash has ever IMPd something. I'm looking for the most IMPs in the shortest period of time. It's certainly not close to the billions or millions even. Probably less than 1000. However, if you have any evidence of him doing a million in less than a second please post them.

As you say... we know Thanos can Teleport with a thought. We know he can activate his shields in less than a second. We know he can fire blasts from behind his shields (See Omega incident). So we know he can do all these things.... right?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Okay, please show me the FASTEST the flash has ever IMPd something. I'm looking for the most IMPs in the shortest period of time. It's certainly not close to the billions or millions even. Probably less than 1000. However, if you have any evidence of him doing a million in less than a second please post them.

As you say... we know Thanos can Teleport with a thought. We know he can activate his shields in less than a second. We know he can fire blasts from behind his shields (See Omega incident). So we know he can do all these things.... right?

Its made up... they will never find flash throwing over a thousand punches in a second just like they won't find a single scan saying that flash is fighting a thousand times the speed of light let alone "twice" the speed of light... it doesn't exist. He has went over these speeds... hell, flash has moved faster than instatntaneous movement BUT he had an amp to accompish these things... a major amp.

Originally posted by carver9
Its made up... they will never find flash throwing over a thousand punches in a second just like they won't find a single scan saying that flash is fighting a thousand times the speed of light let alone "twice" the speed of light... it doesn't exist. He has went over these speeds... hell, flash has moved faster than instatntaneous movement BUT he had an amp to accompish these things... a major amp.

"Instantaneous" movement is relative to perception. What is instant to some might be long moments to others (in comics).

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
"Instantaneous" movement is relative to perception. What is instant to some might be long moments to others (in comics).

But it was stated on panel that he beat someone in a race that had instantaneous teleportation abilities but again, he was AMPED for this feat. He stole the speed of every being on the face of the planet. Hard core fans gives flash speed that he isn't even capable of outside of an amp. Hell, jay was wally equal in speed back in the day and he STRAINED and had to speed steal in order for him to even achieve light speed.

Zoom is another story entirely... I don't think he has a limit to his speed...especially since it took 3 flashes to TRY to subdue him (and he was stiil faster).

Originally posted by illadelph12
I think Thanos's telepathy would be the key to victory (particularly since it's not dependent on motion). If he gets in the speedsters heads and creates an opening it's curtains.

He is down and blasted with so many hits before he CONCLUDES the actual thought of using TP. ....resistant to TP anyway.

Originally posted by BobbyD
He is down and blasted with so many hits before he CONCLUDES the actual thought of using TP. ....resistant to TP anyway.

Yep... it was pretty much shown on panel that they are resistant to tp. That is why I am saying that surfer is the key factor.

@d dude...

When has thanos or surfer ever done a omni blast powerful enough to cover an entire area?

Originally posted by carver9
Yep... it was pretty much shown on panel that they are resistant to tp. That is why I am saying that surfer is the key factor.

@d dude...

When has thanos or surfer ever done a omni blast powerful enough to cover an entire area?

Annihilation. Surfer blew up the entire planet and his blast encompassed the whole place.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Annihilation. Surfer blew up the entire planet and his blast encompassed the whole place.

Are you talking about when he was fight abraxxas?

The only thing I really saw was a power up and then a planetoid exploding. I didn't see anything omni about that.

Thanos' shield is useless against Wally or Zoom since they can just vibrate through his shield.

Surfer is a bit difficult to defeat since he can fly.

If Zoom and Wally can KO Surfer before he's air borne then Zoom/Wally wins.


If not, Surfer can just blow up the entire planet as soon as he's in outerspace and it's sayonara speedsters.

Originally posted by carver9
Are you talking about when he was fight abraxxas?

The only thing I really saw was a power up and then a planetoid exploding. I didn't see anything omni about that.

Not Abraxxas.

When he fought Ravenous he did 2 omniblasts. One to conver his escape (destroying a large chunk of leftover Xandar) and the second destroyed a planet to demonstrate his power to Ravenous after his Galactus upgrade.

Here's the scan:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1787/annihilationsilversurfemi9.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4227/annihilationsilversurfegj7.jpg

The planet he blew up was a badoon fringe world. Thruitda.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Not Abraxxas.

When he fought Ravenous he did 2 omniblasts. One to conver his escape (destroying a large chunk of leftover Xandar) and the second destroyed a planet to demonstrate his power to Ravenous after his Galactus upgrade.

My bad... I meant ravenous. When ravenous was on his knees telling surfer that he was a monster (because of all the power he had) and surfer was trying to reason with him and demonstrated by powering up and destroying the planet proving that he was above ravenous.

That wasn't a omni blast. Show me the omni blast during that feat. Again, I just seen a power up and then BOOM the planet is destroyed.

It's an omni-blast as he didn't attack the planet directly. The glow you see on the second scan is a huge energy blast that emanates around the Surfer w/c in turn destroys the planet (w/c is the very definition of an omni-blast).

I mean, if that's NOT an omni-blast, what is? What does it take for something to be an omni-blast via your definition anyway? Some sort of sound effect that goes "OMNIIIBLASSTZZZ!!"??

Edit. The first feat (the blast he used to cover his tracks) was actually a more clear demonstration of how an omniblast from the Surfer would look (and him travelling fast enough to outrace it). But the scans dont freakin work.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Not Abraxxas.

When he fought Ravenous he did 2 omniblasts. One to conver his escape (destroying a large chunk of leftover Xandar) and the second destroyed a planet to demonstrate his power to Ravenous after his Galactus upgrade.

Here's the scan:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1787/annihilationsilversurfemi9.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4227/annihilationsilversurfegj7.jpg

The planet he blew up was a badoon fringe world. Thruitda.

Me and your defintion of a omni blast is different. That blast went completely through the planetoid. I'm asking you for an omni blast that would cover the entire area since this battle field is indestructible.

Originally posted by carver9
Me and your defintion of a omni blast is different. That blast went completely through the planetoid. I'm asking you for an omni blast that would cover the entire are since this battle field is indestructible.

Um. Yeah, a blast big enough to encompass a planet would NORMALLY go thru it first.... :-/

You're basically asking for a scan of a feat wherein a blast big enough to encompass a planet AND has to NOT go thru a planet due to the planet being indestructible just to qualify for this thread???

A bit reaching aren't we? :-/

Originally posted by carver9
Yep... it was pretty much shown on panel that they are resistant to tp. That is why I am saying that surfer is the key factor.

@d dude...

When has thanos or surfer ever done a omni blast powerful enough to cover an entire area?

Again Martian isn't Thanos when it comes to TP. Secondly when has Zoom shown to be resistant to TP

@ Carver. I'll bite. What IS your definition of an omni-blast?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Again Martian isn't Thanos when it comes to TP. Secondly when has Zoom shown to be resistant to TP

What is thanos best tp feats?

I can't prove zoom tp resistance but since he can accelerate his body far faster than wally (which is the reason behind him being resistant), I can see him having the same resistance.

Originally posted by carver9
What is thanos best tp feats?

I can't prove zoom tp resistance but since he can accelerate his body far faster than wally (which is the reason behind him being resistant), I can see him having the same resistance.

His powers work differently so you can't really correlate Flash's abilities with his.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
@ Carver. I'll bite. What IS your definition of an omni-blast?

This is an omni blast...

Fast forward to 58 seconds.

I can see flash dodging an omni blast just like this person was easily dodging it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNUaoR7Tr3U&feature=related

Admiral Ackbar warned me about threads like this...

SMH...

Originally posted by carver9
This is an omni blast...

Fast forward to 58 seconds.

I can see flash dodging an omni blast just like this person was easily dodging it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNUaoR7Tr3U&feature=related

Explain to me how someone can dodge an omni blast that is radiating from all around his body WHILE punching said person MAKING CONTACT with them as they are radiating. Please show me flash or zoom every doing this.

Originally posted by carver9
This is an omni blast...

Fast forward to 58 seconds.

I can see flash dodging an omni blast just like this person was easily dodging it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNUaoR7Tr3U&feature=related

That's not an omniblast in the traditional sense. More like a vast number of single blasts that goes in several directions. That is why they can be dodged. A blanket explosion can't be dodged, just ran away from.

Something like that prolly only happens in anime (DBZ mostly). Please show me an omniblast that occurred in comics that actually qualifies under your extremely limited definition.

The correct definition would be a blast that travels in ALL directions and covering a large area.

CRITERIA that my scan EASILY qualifies in.

Besides, my example satisfies the requirements needed to smack Flash/Zoom with an energy attack. It blankets ALL areas with an explosion and would cover ALL the ground sufficiently to run Flash/Zoom out of areas to run to.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Explain to me how someone can dodge an omni blast that is radiating from all around his body WHILE punching said person MAKING CONTACT with them as they are radiating. Please show me flash or zoom every doing this.

I just showed you someone with speed doing this so why wouldn't you believe that flash could do the same thing? Doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
That's not an omniblast in the traditional sense. More like a vast number of single blasts that goes in several directions. That is why they can be dodged. A blanket explosion can't be dodged, just ran away from.

Something like that prolly only happens in anime (DBZ mostly). Please show me an omniblast that occurred in comics that actually qualifies under your extremely limited definition.

The correct definition would be a blast that travels in ALL directions and covering a large area.

CRITERIA that my scan EASILY qualifies in.

Besides, my example satisfies the requirements needed to smack Flash/Zoom with an energy attack. It blankets ALL areas with an explosion and would cover ALL the ground sufficiently to run Flash/Zoom out of areas to run to.

That was an omni blast and I am unable to show you anyone in comics dodging it like that but saying that the flash can't dodge an omni blast in the same fashion is ridiculous.

What was also bad about that example is not only wasn't it a real omni blast in comics but it also wasn't punching someone WHILE they are radiating out energy from their body. If you're making contact with someone body (your punching them) yet not get hit by any energy. PLEASE SHOW ME SCANS OF THIS

Originally posted by carver9
That was an omni blast and I am unable to show you anyone in comics dodging it like that but saying that the flash can't dodge an omni blast in the same fashion is ridiculous.

It's only ridiculous because your definition is wrong. Very wrong.

You can't dodge a blanket explosion. What's so hard to understand here?

Even if you could... it certainly even more unlikely you could dodge and hit the person radiating energy and yet not get touched yourself.