Achilles Vs Thor (hth)

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Prep-Man
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/27444/1072667-ach9_large.jpg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/1570544-faith001_large.jpg

Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor.

Juk3n
Thor isnt skillfull enough *fanboys begin to stand up * WAIT!.. Thousands of years of experience of being an average brawler doesn't make you anything but an average brawler. And the Achilles powerset is rather beastly in melee combat situations, divine grace is uber.

CosmicComet
*Thor's an above average brawler at worst.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Juk3n
Thor isnt skillfull enough *fanboys begin to stand up * WAIT!.. Thousands of years of experience of being an average brawler doesn't make you anything but an average brawler. And the Achilles powerset is rather beastly in melee combat situations, divine grace is uber.

baka

tideoftime
Ultimately, Thor. Achilles' Grace, however, would give Thor fits, but Thor can fight for days on end, and can tank brawling attacks like nobody's business. Achilles' will put up a good fight, however, and Thor would likely appreciate that -- he'd have someone else to play grab-ass with other than Herc...

Also, while Achilles is relatively unkillable, it is not yet determined how long he properly can battle (hours, certainly, but days? Weeks? Does he properly need rest, like Diana would at some point? Unknown, at this point...)

Thor: 6-7/10 [8-9/10 if it is determined that Achilles can't go on for days at a time, continuously), but it would take quite a while. Achilles' wins come from Thor underestimating him, or overestimating his own combat prowess against someone who has the ability to evade most H2H attacks, as well as many other attacks.

khazra
Originally posted by tideoftime
Ultimately, Thor. Achilles' Grace, however, would give Thor fits, but Thor can fight for days on end, and can tank brawling attacks like nobody's business. Achilles' will put up a good fight, however, and Thor would likely appreciate that -- he'd have someone else to play grab-ass with other than Herc...

Also, while Achilles is relatively unkillable, it is not yet determined how long he properly can battle (hours, certainly, but days? Weeks? Does he properly need rest, like Diana would at some point? Unknown, at this point...)

Thor: 6-7/10
i like this answer. As well as the endurance issue, have we seen the olypmian display thor level strength yet either? I dont think so but i only read the rise of the olympian arc.

Prep-Man
He smacked around Eradicator like he was nothing. And fought Geo-Force who had Terra's powers/gravity control. The only reason they stopped was because of Geo-Forces situation with his country.

Rage.Of.Olympus
I think Thor beats his face in the moment he gets his hands on him. Olympian is deprived of his spear and I haven't seen anything from him to make me thing he can put Thor down physically.

His best hope is too keep dancing out of Thor's hands. Which I don't think we'll last once Thor catches on.

Prep-Man
Nah, Achilles durability is pretty solid.

Rage.Of.Olympus
What does solid mean? Because from what I remember, once Thor gets his hands on him, it's game over.

Prep-Man
Meaning he can take Thor's blows/punches.

Rage.Of.Olympus
His more durable than Wonder Woman?

Prep-Man
From the fight with Geo-Force (who has become close to or even top tier) Achilles is very durable. Geo-Force is connected to earth now and is class 100.

tideoftime
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His more durable than Wonder Woman?

He's at least as durable as Wonder Woman, and can survive specific killing attacks that would kill her (such as recovering from being stabbed through the heart/chest-to-back, after being down just a moment).

Also, he was "Class 100"* before Geoforce, if I recall correctly, in an issue of WW where he tore that gi-normous serpent-creature-thingy in half; without his purpose/duty being clouded, he's clearly at least in the Donna Troy/Kory range of strength, and likely stronger. Whether he is properly in WW's, Thor's, SM's, et al, league is yet to be determined, but it wouldn't surprise me that in years to come he is demonstrated as being in their relative "class", strength-wise.

*(Rant: I *HATE* when people use the old Marvel scaling -- it's all but worthless outside of it's 80's origins, and incredibly inaccurate for most super-strong characters; hell, it was inaccurate for many instances of physical strength for characters even back then... Rant concluded...)

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Prep-Man
From the fight with Geo-Force (who has become close to or even top tier) Achilles is very durable. Geo-Force is connected to earth now and is class 100.

I didn't read the fight with Geo-Force. All I remember is his fight with Diana and me not being impressed once she figured out his game. She outmaneuvered him, and almost choked him out.

He took a flying slam from Wonder Woman, but that hardly means he can stand up to a beating from Thor.

Geo Force is now Top Tier? He got an upgrade? I haven't been reading the Outsiders for like a year now.

I've seen absolutely no reason why Achilles could win this.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by tideoftime
He's at least as durable as Wonder Woman, and can survive specific killing attacks that would kill her (such as recovering from being stabbed through the heart/chest-to-back, after being down just a moment).

Based on what? Thor also has an unconventional body that would allow him to survive attacks that would kill others.

celeyhyga17
large majority to Thor..

Colossus-Big C
idk about this, achillies is faster than wonder woman and can dodge thor all day while landing blows, his spear can also cut through any object, it easily cuts wonder woman.
achillies is also very durable he has wonder woman level durability
imo this is how the fight goes down


thor throws a punch,
achillies dodges and stabs thor through the brain.

khazra
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
idk about this, achillies is faster than wonder woman and can dodge thor all day while landing blows, his spear can also cut through any object, it easily cuts wonder woman.
achillies is also very durable he has wonder woman level durability
imo this is how the fight goes down


thor throws a punch,
achillies dodges and stabs thor through the brain.
Maybe read the stipulations of the fight before wading in?

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by khazra
Maybe read the stipulations of the fight before wading in? what stipulations? confused

khazra
It's h2h. how is the spear going to go through his head when its not in play?

Colossus-Big C
oh

iceman24567
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
what stipulations? confused Why ask when you can read the first post in the thread? Talk about failing......

MrMind
h2h without mjolnir thor's gonna lose

tideoftime
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Based on what? Thor also has an unconventional body that would allow him to survive attacks that would kill others.


Uhhh... based on his demonstrated feats... and his battles with Wonder Woman (which were later explained, as well as hinted at in the ongoing narrative, that his abilities were compromised because of his mixed feelings concerning his purpose/Zeus' orders; once he became more "clear/certain", his abilities increased dramatically).

Also, I indicated that Thor takes the pretty clear majority in this (6-7/10, possibly more if it drags out for days, as it is not yet clear if Achilles requires rest the way, say, WW eventually would, whereas Thor can fight for days on end). Achilles can, however, eke out wins via Thor understimating him, as well as Thor having trouble with Achilles' Grace, as Thor doesn't have the maneuverability that Diana does, nor her specific finesse.

But anywho...

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by tideoftime
Uhhh... based on his demonstrated feats... and his battles with Wonder Woman (which were later explained, as well as hinted at in the ongoing narrative, that his abilities were compromised because of his mixed feelings concerning his purpose/Zeus' orders; once he became more "clear/certain", his abilities increased dramatically).

I saw absolutely nothing in his fight with Diana to prove his as durable as her. I don't remember this. Course, I stopped reading Wonder Woman right before and then again, right after the reboot.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Also, I indicated that Thor takes the pretty clear majority in this (6-7/10, possibly more if it drags out for days, as it is not yet clear if Achilles requires rest the way, say, WW eventually would, whereas Thor can fight for days on end). Achilles can, however, eke out wins via Thor understimating him, as well as Thor having trouble with Achilles' Grace, as Thor doesn't have the maneuverability that Diana does, nor her specific finesse.

But anywho...

The best case scenario for Achilles is that Thor takes him as a joke, gets knocked around and/or surprised for the first half of the fight, then ends him when he gets serious. I.e. the basic formula for Thor fights. It's pretty much how the fight with Diana went.

Diana defeated him the first time by attempting to wrestle him, and then choking him out with a fence. Hardly something Thor can't accomplish.

tideoftime
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I saw absolutely nothing in his fight with Diana to prove his as durable as her. I don't remember this. Course, I stopped reading Wonder Woman right before and then again, right after the reboot.



The best case scenario for Achilles is that Thor takes him as a joke, gets knocked around and/or surprised for the first half of the fight, then ends him when he gets serious. I.e. the basic formula for Thor fights. It's pretty much how the fight with Diana went.

Diana defeated him the first time by attempting to wrestle him, and then choking him out with a fence. Hardly something Thor can't accomplish.

Wow...

Way to disregard my response indicating that later (in issues of WW), it was directly stated that Achilles' abilities were dampened in all three of his fights against WW, because his "sense of purpose" was conflicted (a Gladiator-esque type weakness) -- he has since demonstrated much greater prowess/strength, and was indicated has having greater power than he demonstrated against her.

As I said...

celeyhyga17
Thor's combat speed is not an issue here.

Power and speed.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed05Avengers006.jpg

A death goddess can't even get a touch!
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSpeed03354.jpg

Surfer and Warlock get punked.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed20InfinityWatch23.jpg

In the space of micro-seconds...
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed08144.jpg

tideoftime
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Thor's combat speed is not an issue here.

Power and speed.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed05Avengers006.jpg

A death goddess can't even get a touch!
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSpeed03354.jpg

Surfer and Warlock get punked.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed20InfinityWatch23.jpg

In the space of micro-seconds...
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed08144.jpg

You're right: Thor's relative combat speed isn't being questioned here. While he doesn't have Superman's or Wonder Woman's applied speed/finesse, he has demonstrated being able to at least be factorable when going up against superfast opponents.

That point has no relative bearing on this fight.

Achilles has similar speed in terms of attacking (being able to fight WW), and his Grace allows for the avoidance of attacks even from superfast opponents/projectiles. That Thor can effectively attack at a reflex speed to make him a factor when fighting, say, Superman or Wonder Woman, has no bearing in terms of Achilles' Grace, because said Grace is *effective* against such attacks (will Thor get tackles in, at some point? Sure. He's a god, afterall -- even if not quite as potent as he used to be, but then none of them are). Thor doesn't have, and has never demonstrated, the *movement* speed/finesse of flight that WW employed to make some attacks against Achilles, and as I have posted, Achilles demonstrated feats have increased dramatically since his fights with Diana, and the narrative explanation given: he is, in fact, much more powerful than many realize, and has the weakness of his abilities being weakened when he doubts his purpose/conviction.

That isn't going to be an issue here.

Thor still gets the majority, for sure, but it isn't a stomp, as such, and it will take him time to get Achilles down.

(Now, give them their weapons/Thor the fuller range of his abilities? Achilles will get his ass handed to him. He doesn't have Diana's experience/additional gear that would allow *her* to stand up better to Thor -- though she'd still just as likely get killed as win.)

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I saw absolutely nothing in his fight with Diana to prove his as durable as her. I don't remember this. Course, I stopped reading Wonder Woman right before and then again, right after the reboot.



The best case scenario for Achilles is that Thor takes him as a joke, gets knocked around and/or surprised for the first half of the fight, then ends him when he gets serious. I.e. the basic formula for Thor fights. It's pretty much how the fight with Diana went.

Diana defeated him the first time by attempting to wrestle him, and then choking him out with a fence. Hardly something Thor can't accomplish. achillies is like gladiator, when he fought wonder woman he wasnt at 100%. at 100% he is supposed to be above her

Q99
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
achillies is like gladiator, when he fought wonder woman he wasnt at 100%. at 100% he is supposed to be above her

Nothing says he's above, just that he's more-so than when he fought her.

He was made via almost identical processes, so they should be close.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by tideoftime
You're right: Thor's relative combat speed isn't being questioned here. While he doesn't have Superman's or Wonder Woman's applied speed/finesse, he has demonstrated being able to at least be factorable when going up against superfast opponents.

That point has no relative bearing on this fight.

Achilles has similar speed in terms of attacking (being able to fight WW), and his Grace allows for the avoidance of attacks even from superfast opponents/projectiles. That Thor can effectively attack at a reflex speed to make him a factor when fighting, say, Superman or Wonder Woman, has no bearing in terms of Achilles' Grace, because said Grace is *effective* against such attacks (will Thor get tackles in, at some point? Sure. He's a god, afterall -- even if not quite as potent as he used to be, but then none of them are). Thor doesn't have, and has never demonstrated, the *movement* speed/finesse of flight that WW employed to make some attacks against Achilles, and as I have posted, Achilles demonstrated feats have increased dramatically since his fights with Diana, and the narrative explanation given: he is, in fact, much more powerful than many realize, and has the weakness of his abilities being weakened when he doubts his purpose/conviction.

That isn't going to be an issue here.

Thor still gets the majority, for sure, but it isn't a stomp, as such, and it will take him time to get Achilles down.

(Now, give them their weapons/Thor the fuller range of his abilities? Achilles will get his ass handed to him. He doesn't have Diana's experience/additional gear that would allow *her* to stand up better to Thor -- though she'd still just as likely get killed as win.)

oh ma bad... uahahha.. laughing

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