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A borg fleet arrives at earth, they appear right past all the defense grid.

The lead cube issues a communique to Starfleet HQ in SF, stating that they want only to assimilate or kill the ones who call themselves wizards.

Starfleet recognise the situation as being a great opportunity to upgrade the consciousness of mankind by having society eliminating wizards, like it did long ago with religion.

So it sends a full armada (of ships in fleet up til ST:Nemesis) to go with the Borg to show them where the wizards are, and to assist in the reconstitution of the wizards.

The wizards are caught off guard when suddenly ships start warping into a position over Hogwarts at a variety of altitudes ranging from In outer space, to the stratosphere, with fighters at lower altitudes swarming, and people and Borg alike start beaming into the ground..

Who wins...?

How fast can the Borg adapt? I mean, the Borg can adapt to most any energy source, so why can't they adapt to abra kedavra, etc?

Lets say six shots...seems to be that way for shield modulation/adaptation in the movies.

For every one Hogwarts student there is 100 Borg drones.

Resistance is futile.

It certainly doesn't look good for them again here..

Borg stomp.

I certainly look forward to pro-wizard arguments rolling in.

Originally posted by Impediment
How fast can the Borg adapt? I mean, the Borg can adapt to most any energy source, so why can't they adapt to abra kedavra, etc?

Yeah. They failed to adapt to Species 8472 - so they will simply adapt to magic.

And if God descents from the sky and smites them with lightning, they are going to adapt to omnipotence, too. Right after having adapted to black holes, meteors hitting them and supernovas.

No limit fallacies totally kick ass...

Species 8472 aren't magic, are they?

We are discussing Hogwarts magic, not the hokum of a Jewish carpenter.

If its the same spell each time, sure they can.
HP magic has never been shown to modulate anything.

Theres no god in Star Trek. Last time anything claimed to be god (ST V) Spock kicked its ass.

Yes they do.

Borg win by teleporting drones amongst the front lines adapting to all the spells.
After an hour an army of drones are sent in while violent lasers destroy the ground BENEATH the castle, canceling the protective shielding it had.

All are assimilated Resistence Is Futile. All who escape are BFR.

Q is a God.

Originally posted by Impediment
Species 8472 aren't magic, are they?



Nope.

Guys, the magic/personal shield interface is a boring one.

Borg have ships.

The wizards turn the ships into bunnies!

Transport + nano-injection. Borg don't have to land, either way, it's a matter of numbers. Borg can afford to those a thousand to take one.

Question is, once the Borg assimilate a wizard, they'll know everything in his/her head. Debatable if they'd have access to magic because of it.

The Borg don\t even have to teleport in, they can easily fire from space

but once they are in every wizard will be assimilated easily

for shiites and giggles

WZEJ4OJTgg8

The ****? Orbital bombardment ftw, each and every time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The ****? Orbital bombardment ftw, each and every time. Protego! Shields from anything and everything the universe can throw at it.

The Borg can adapt.

Originally posted by Impediment
The Borg can adapt.

Doubtful.


Magic explicitly does not follow the laws of physics.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Protego! Shields from anything and everything the universe can throw at it.

Imma have to say that transporters WOULD work.



Here's my logic:

The shield charms were explicitly stated to block the physical. Cool. That makes sense as nothing physical ever got through and if it were as simple as applying enough force to break through protego-like shield charms, a wizard would just have to levitate a pebble really high into the air and cast engorgio multiple times onto the rock until it was the size of a mountain, and crash it on top of Hogwarts. There's a reason it was said to block the physical: it would be very easy to get past it if all one had to do was apply enough force.

However, here's my logic for why transporters get passed it:

If the shield charms blcoked ALL energy and matter from getting in:

They'd suffocate as they would run out of oxygen. A rabid Potter fanboy could say that the shield is intelligent, just like most magical spells are, and be more like a membrane that "breathes." Fine. I'll go with that. But it does NOT block all ENERGIES though.


Here's why and it is a very huge point/hole in the shield charm debate:




Sunlight


That's right: electromagnetic radiation gets through. We can clearly see that in just about every scene that takes place outside.

What does a transporter do? It transforms matter into pure energy, moves it at the speed of light, and rematerializes it at another place. This means that it has to be EmR meaning it gets through. This is why electricity (for all intents and purposes, a particle beam) does not get through but sunlight does: one is matter the other is energy.





SH*T! I'm wrong...I forgot about the technology nullifier shield charms. Damnit. Man. I thought about this one the way to work and I thought I was sooooooo clever for thinking of this, too.




Well...I tried.


I don't think you guys realize how disappointed I am that I thought of all that just to shoot myself in the foot. It's way worse than getting owned in a debate, imo. Self-pwnage is the worst.



Edit - Wait, the Star Trek peeps could easily send other forms of deadly radiation through. It just can't be things like alpha particles: it has to be energy, alone.

We should get input from -Pr- on this.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Protego! Shields from anything and everything the universe can throw at it. No it doesn't the sheild charm is to protect from hexes.

There is no evidence to support a claim that it would protect from any thing else.
Originally posted by Impediment
The Borg can adapt. Only if you can define exactly what energy drives the spells in the hogwarts universe.

There is no evidence to support a claim that they could adapt to hexes from the Harry Potter universe.


I'm going to go with bombardment from space, like the borg did in First Contact.

No fuss no muss, just a crater where the ickle wizards once were.

Of course there are other wizarding schools that would need to be targeted as well.

Originally posted by Creshosk
No it doesn't the sheild charm is to protect from hexes.

There is no evidence to support a claim that it would protect from any thing else.

It also protects from the physical. (Standard shield charm, does. That's the plain protego version.) I could be thinking of something else like to totalus version.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It also protects from the physical. (Standard shield charm, does. That's the plain protego version.) I could be thinking of something else like to totalus version. No, the Protego and its variants only protect from hexes. You're probably thinking of one of the other charms such as the imperturbable charm or the impervius charm.

But we don't know if there is a spell that can keep out the energy attacks that the borg can provide.

Of course I'm guessing that they already know the location of Hogwarts, otherwise they wouldn't be able to target it due to the Repello Muggletum charm. As the Borg are not of the Harry Potterverse magic they would qualify as muggles.

If they already know then they can simply destroy the area, anything not protected by magic such as the rock and the like underneath the school. Since I doubt that hogwarts has a locomotor charm on it it'd more than likely fall taking any within down with it. The people inside would more than likely not enjoy the fall especially if they fell far enough into lava.

Alright what's the most powerful attack Hogwart's shield charm has withstood? Aren't the energy attacks of the Borg and other ST factions measured in the Gigatons?

A ball of smoke bounced off of it. Like, really hard though!

Didn't anyone read my post?

The Borg can blast the ground beneath Hogwarts from space. While capturing/adapting to wizards in the frontlines.
Protego would be useless once the gound beneath caves in and the castle falls.
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae259/the_ninjak/hogwarts_l.jpg
As the spell buckles and the castle falls into the water it becomes a massacre of drones that have already adapted to the spells infecting wizards and teleporting them to base for information.
It's only a matter of time before the school and all those within are assimilated.
All those who apparate and escape are BFR.

And Zappano.-
Even if the borg can't adapt to the spells they can create a Borg army of Wizards that they capture. Borg with drones who know magic makes them all wizards compared to level of wizard they capture.
Disastrous Consequences. All they need is wands. Which with particle manipulation they can make as many of them that they wish.

Originally posted by Impediment
Species 8472 aren't magic, are they?


Right. They are less alien to the Borg than magic is. So what makes you think the Borg could adapt to magic? They adopt to freaking energy beams. Did you see spells leaving burn marks anywhere? I didn't.

And how would they even adapt to deadly curses? It's instant death to every thing being hit with it, which means that the drones can't communicate what did hit them, which in turn renders the Borgs fundamental technique to adapt utterly useless.



Excuse me.

First: I don't think you got my comment right. A "no limit fallacy" is present, when it's presumed that a certain ability (here: adaption) doesn't have any limits. In our special case, that even happens despite of limits being shown on screen. They failed to adapt to Species 8472 despite of fighting them over several weeks. Yet you think that they can adapt to a far more alien concept (read: magic) in several seconds? I just entered the omnipotence thing to show you how ridiculous that idea is, but apparently, you still find it reasonable.

So would you please explain to me how they would adapt to spells that don't even generate physical effects (Imperius), how a drone being hit by Avada Kedavra (or being turned into a ferret for that matter) would be able to communicate the information about that attack to the other drones which is kind of prerequisite for them being able to adapt?


Second: I don't see anything being "discussed" here. What I see is the attempt to make a spite thread and totally failing at it, due to not having the slightest clue about the workings and abilities of Harry Potter magic.

May I ask what stops Dumbledore from waving his hand, saying "Arresto Momentum" (as seen in "Prisoner of Azkaban" which apparently does arrest momentum, meaning that all kind of movements become impossible? No drones moving in, no teleporting, no weapons fired from the orbit. Everything will be turned into a nice pile of immobile targets - which the Hogwarts students can use to practice their aim.

Originally posted by Borbarad
I don't see anything being "discussed" here. What I see is the attempt to make a spite thread and totally failing at it, due to not having the slightest clue about the workings and abilities of Harry Potter magic.

Profiled.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Right. They are less alien to the Borg than magic is. So what makes you think the Borg could adapt to magic? They adopt to freaking energy beams. Did you see spells leaving burn marks anywhere? I didn't.

And how would they even adapt to deadly curses? It's instant death to every thing being hit with it, which means that the drones can't communicate what did hit them, which in turn renders the Borgs fundamental technique to adapt utterly useless.



Excuse me.

First: I don't think you got my comment right. A "no limit fallacy" is present, when it's presumed that a certain ability (here: adaption) doesn't have any limits. In our special case, that even happens despite of limits being shown on screen. They failed to adapt to Species 8472 despite of fighting them over several weeks. Yet you think that they can adapt to a far more alien concept (read: magic) in several seconds? I just entered the omnipotence thing to show you how ridiculous that idea is, but apparently, you still find it reasonable.

So would you please explain to me how they would adapt to spells that don't even generate physical effects (Imperius), how a drone being hit by Avada Kedavra (or being turned into a ferret for that matter) would be able to communicate the information about that attack to the other drones which is kind of prerequisite for them being able to adapt?


Second: I don't see anything being "discussed" here. What I see is the attempt to make a spite thread and totally failing at it, due to not having the slightest clue about the workings and abilities of Harry Potter magic.

May I ask what stops Dumbledore from waving his hand, saying "Arresto Momentum" (as seen in "Prisoner of Azkaban" which apparently does arrest momentum, meaning that all kind of movements become impossible? No drones moving in, no teleporting, no weapons fired from the orbit. Everything will be turned into a nice pile of immobile targets - which the Hogwarts students can use to practice their aim. I imagine what would stop him from doing it is if the bombardment from space was a surprise attack. Though I'm curious about the limitations on the Harry Potter Magic. What's the range on that spell?

You're wrong on this particular count, Nai. Arresto momentum did not render all momentum zero, because Ron and Hermione were clearly still able to see Harry (photons unaffected by the spell) and the entire quidditch stadium retained their capacity to pump blood and breathe air. The Borg energy weapons will be fully functional.

I don't think you noticed the mismatch between forces. The Borg are offered space ships and the Hogwarts technology nullifier is never shown to extend into space; given that the physical protections operate in a bubble it is reasonable to think that the !tech field does as well.



Every single drone they send into hand to hand combat dies, immediately.

One cube solos.

Borg victory.

Obviously the wizards will know about the attack before hand due to the hall of teh prophecies and Trelawney and do a planet-wide Protego which is indestructible and totallly not a no-limits fallacy and totally has the feats to stop Giga(watts?) of energy. Then they will drink ze GOD POTION(!) and they will swat the fleet out of the void with their massive dicks wands.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Obviously the wizards will know about the attack before hand due to the hall of teh prophecies and Trelawney and do a planet-wide Protego which is indestructible and totallly not a no-limits fallacy and totally has the feats to stop Giga(watts?) of energy. Then they will drink ze GOD POTION(!) and they will swat the fleet out of the void with their massive dicks wands. You forgot House elves, giants and confundus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Obviously the wizards will know about the attack before hand due to the hall of teh prophecies and Trelawney and do a planet-wide Protego which is indestructible and totallly not a no-limits fallacy and totally has the feats to stop Giga(watts?) of energy. Then they will drink ze GOD POTION(!) and they will swat the fleet out of the void with their massive dicks wands. Why gentlemen, I do think this one is being sarcastic.

On the note of what you said there's the activity of reading harry potter but replacing every instance of the word wand with wang.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Immobulus fits what he said better. Just saying. Arresto Momentum simply slowed Harry down. Immobulus literally freezes multiple targets.
It stops movement. Yes. However, the pixies in CoS were still able to breathe and move their eyes. It does not remove their momentum along the path of the Earth's orbit. It does not stop their hearts.

The Borg, relying on both verbal and nonverbal (subspace) modes of communication, will not be particularly harmed by this spell. Their ship's weapons will still be able to fire and Hogwarts will still be razed to the ground.

All drones sent within the school will die, of course.

Originally posted by Creshosk
No it doesn't the sheild charm is to protect from hexes.

There is no evidence to support a claim that it would protect from any thing else. Do you remember that part in Half Blood Prince when Harry cast a Spell of Frivolity at Snape, but it went right over Snape's head?


Your Snape.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Do you remember that part in Half Blood Prince when Harry cast a Spell of Frivolity at Snape, but it went right over Snape's head?


Your Snape. My Snape? I don't have a Snape.

you'r a pedant

Originally posted by Creshosk
My Snape? I don't have a Snape. Why not? There all the craze.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Why not? There all the craze. That's the problem. They keep selling out, so they're never in stock.

Originally posted by Creshosk
That's the problem. They keep selling out, so they're never in stock. You should right the company, tell them to produce more of them to meat you're demands.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You should right the company, tell them to produce more of them to meat you're demands. No, thanks. I don't really want them to 'meat' any demands of mine if Snape is involved. I'm not interested in him in that way.

Frivolus maxima!

Originally posted by Impediment
For every one Hogwarts student there is 100 Borg drones.

Resistance is futile. Agreed.

durofborg

But soon as one is petrified another unit of 9 borg beam in around that location and assimiliate the ass of the caster.

Its a one shot at a time, per man spell, as shown by HP screen feats.

With the amount of Borg here, youre effectively in a sandstorm, trying to freeze it 1 grain of sand at a time and expecting not to get any on you...which is silly.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But soon as one is petrified another unit of 9 borg beam in around that location and assimiliate the ass of the caster.

Its a one shot at a time, per man spell, as shown by HP screen feats.

With the amount of Borg here, youre effectively in a sandstorm, trying to freeze it 1 grain of sand at a time and expecting not to get any on you...which is silly.

exactly and also once the borg start assimilating the wizards then they'll be immune to any and all spells

Assimilate one hapless first year, full immunity.

Their asses' technical and biological distinctiveness shall be added to the borg's own.

Originally posted by Creshosk
No, the Protego and its variants only protect from hexes. You're probably thinking of one of the other charms such as the imperturbable charm or the impervius charm.

You sure? Didn't Hermione say it would "keep out the physical but not powerful magic"? My wife has book 7 around the house somewhere...but I really do not feel like reading that shit just to fine the one or two times it is mentioned.


However, none of that counts in the MVF. What was said about it in pat 1 of movie 7?

Originally posted by Creshosk
But we don't know if there is a spell that can keep out the energy attacks that the borg can provide.

For the ones that protect from the physical, particle beams would be held out, assuming that there's not feasible uppper limit to the "physical" aspect of the shielding. However, radiation of any kind, as I showed in an earlier post on page 2, would get right through.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Of course I'm guessing that they already know the location of Hogwarts, otherwise they wouldn't be able to target it due to the Repello Muggletum charm. As the Borg are not of the Harry Potterverse magic they would qualify as muggles.

Super "indeed".

I have been harping on people making Hogwarts related threads that they need to remove or somehow accommodate for this.

This in addition to Voldemorts Horcruxes and the Felix Felicis potion.

Originally posted by Creshosk
If they already know then they can simply destroy the area, anything not protected by magic such as the rock and the like underneath the school. Since I doubt that hogwarts has a locomotor charm on it it'd more than likely fall taking any within down with it. The people inside would more than likely not enjoy the fall especially if they fell far enough into lava.

I see your point.

Even with the shields in place, the forces would cause everything the shield bubble to be "smashed" into the earth, similar to pushing a pebble into sand. Sure, pebble will still be intact, but what about the contents INSIDE the pebble? (lol) The forces should shake up the people inside the bubble as gravity is still in effect.

So, yeah, you discovered a problem with the shields: even though they are magic and can only be broken by magic, the contents inside are still susceptible to large forces.

I agreed in the superman debate the superman could easily pick up Hogwarts, but that would make Superman susceptible to a death spell while he lifts the "bubble".

Originally posted by Nephthys
A ball of smoke bounced off of it. Like, really hard though!





Originally posted by Zampanó
You're wrong on this particular count, Nai. Arresto momentum did not render all momentum zero, because Ron and Hermione were clearly still able to see Harry (photons unaffected by the spell) and the entire quidditch stadium retained their capacity to pump blood and breathe air. The Borg energy weapons will be fully functional.

I was with you on this until the very last point. It is a non sequitor argument: it does not follow the information presented, previously.

Unless they are firing "neural interface" weapons which only require thought. Is that how their weapons are? I do not remember their personal weapons, at all...other than it being "green."

One thing I noticed about magic from HP is it appears to be "sentient." Meaning, the spell stops them from moving...or rather, the ability to move any portions of their body minus those functions necessary for life and maybe their eyes?

Originally posted by Zampanó
I don't think you noticed the mismatch between forces. The Borg are offered space ships and the Hogwarts technology nullifier is never shown to extend into space; given that the physical protections operate in a bubble it is reasonable to think that the !tech field does as well.

Every single drone they send into hand to hand combat dies, immediately.

You're correct: it only extends WITHIN the charms, not outside.

So anything they try to send inside dies, immediately, assuming they can even do that. As I figured out, no technology works inside so they wouldn't even be able to beam shit inside.



Originally posted by Zampanó
One cube solos.

Borg victory.

I agree with this.

Until I see more arguments in favor of HP peeps, I am sticking with the Borg.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Obviously the wizards will know about the attack before hand due to the hall of teh prophecies and Trelawney and do a planet-wide Protego which is indestructible and totallly not a no-limits fallacy and totally has the feats to stop Giga(watts?) of energy. Then they will drink ze GOD POTION(!) and they will swat the fleet out of the void with their massive dicks wands.

You actually make good points, despite the large dose of sarcasm.

Personally I think you should find the quote that you're talking about, or at least someone should. Alot of the stategy you're using assumes that the shield will stop all physical attacks, and this is now being used in other threads as well. So it would be really helpfull if you'd prove up on this point.



No I don't. The OP stated that the wizards were 'caught off-guard' so Trelawny and the hall of prophecies (urgh) are out. A planet wide protego is such a ridiculous concept that I would feel stupid even explaining why its so. Protego's and shield charms are not invincible and inpenetrable unless you can prove they are, and the GOD POTION cannot prevent an orbital bombardment.

You're right; I was very unclear. I meant that arresto momentum, if used on the Borg cubes, would not prevent the conduction of electricity and emission of EM radiation. Thus, the Borg cubes (which are outside of the !techfield) will be able to fire their weapons despite being targeted by arresto momentum.


They could beam shit inside, making the castle smell bad.

Putting a drone there would kill it.





I don't think that actually, you know, matters to the fight, though. The shield charm clearly does not block EM (sunlight) so any sort of energy weapon from space pwns.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Personally I think you should find the quote that you're talking about, or at least someone should. Alot of the stategy you're using assumes that the shield will stop all physical attacks, and this is now being used in other threads as well. So it would be really helpfull if you'd prove up on this point.

Nah. It's too much effort.

I'd rather concede the point than be arsed to look it up.

Yes, I'm that lazy.

Maybe you could convince a Potter-fa....I mean someone who likes Harry Potter to clarify? There's probably lots of people that could tell us the chapter right off the top of their head.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No I don't. The OP stated that the wizards were 'caught off-guard' so Trelawny and the hall of prophecies (urgh) are out. A planet wide protego is such a ridiculous concept that I would feel stupid even explaining why its so. Protego's and shield charms are not invincible and inpenetrable unless you can prove they are, and the GOD POTION cannot prevent an orbital bombardment.

Good points. I do not feel that a planet wide protection charm is allowed. I believe the thread starter said a year of prep can be used...but was it within the first couple of posts? (I dunno.)

Also, I do not think the Protego charm versions are the ones keeping out the majority of the physical stuff. The wiki says it does protect against the physical* and I remember something being said about it by Hermione to Harry and Ron. However, I believe there are other charms that are better at it. My memory is vague.



Originally posted by Zampanó
You're right; I was very unclear. I meant that arresto momentum, if used on the Borg cubes, would not prevent the conduction of electricity and emission of EM radiation. Thus, the Borg cubes (which are outside of the !techfield) will be able to fire their weapons despite being targeted by arresto momentum.

Makes sense and I agree fully.


Originally posted by Zampanó
They could beam shit inside, making the castle smell bad.

Putting a drone there would kill it.



YUP!





Originally posted by Zampanó
I don't think that actually, you know, matters to the fight, though. The shield charm clearly does not block EM (sunlight) so any sort of energy weapon from space pwns.

I also agree, here, too. If we assume that the shields protect against the physical and only magic can break them down (like it happens in the films), then all energy weapons will work but particle beams will not (because particle beams are comprised of particles...matter.)

Originally posted by Borbarad
Yes. Because Dumbledore was aiming it at Harry. Any kind of range limitation being shown there? As far as Rowling is concerned, single individuals have managed to extend spell range effects over entire towns (in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them it's mentioned that a Wizard covered a dragon showing up by using a memory charm on the entire town of Brighton).
I don't think that we have any information about Dumbledore's range.

We do have information about the effects of the spell itself. When targeting an Harry, the momentum of the particles in Harry's body was diminished. Emissions from his body were not affected at all. Light still reflected from his clothing and skin, based off of Ron and Hermione's testimony in the Hospital Wing, as well as the shot on Harry's descent itself.

That inability to nullify the movement of photons means that Borg energy weapons will operate normally.





From the OP:







Suggesting that Harry's life functions were turned off is pure speculation. Neither the film nor the books suggest that effect. The most that we can say arresto momentum accomplishes is a diminishment of bulk movement in a direction (i.e. a body's motion in a particular direction). To assert anything about its effects on the vibrations and internal movements of that body is nothing more than idle speculation, which will receive no more respect from me than would the argument 'NO U.'

The orbital bombardment will commence as planned.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You sure? Didn't Hermione say it would "keep out the physical but not powerful magic"? My wife has book 7 around the house somewhere...but I really do not feel like reading that shit just to fine the one or two times it is mentioned.


However, none of that counts in the MVF. What was said about it in pat 1 of movie 7?I can't seem to find that quote.

For the ones that protect from the physical, particle beams would be held out, assuming that there's not feasible uppper limit to the "physical" aspect of the shielding. However, radiation of any kind, as I showed in an earlier post on page 2, would get right through.Therein lies the queston. Alpha radaiton is a helium atom without any electrons. It's stll has two neutron and two protons, just no electrons. So if radiation can get through (electromagnetic radation carred by the photon in the form of light.)

Would they keep the particle beams out since a tachyon beam is simply any particle that can move faster than the speed of light.

And the borg utilize tachyons for their trans warp conduits, and there was a sustained tachyon beam used as a weapon as well.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I can't seem to find that quote.

It's where she talks about the shields, what they are for, etc.

It should be towards the first 3rd of the book. The wiki would not have contained the same information: it's there, somewhere. Looks like I have to stop being lazy...but I don't WANT to read the whole damn book. Surely it's out there in a diigital form. Maybe I could "ctrl+f" it on a digital book.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Therein lies the queston. Alpha radaiton is a helium atom without any electrons. It's stll has two neutron and two protons, just no electrons. So if radiation can get through (electromagnetic radation carred by the photon in the form of light.)

Would they keep the particle beams out since a tachyon beam is simply any particle that can move faster than the speed of light.

And the borg utilize tachyons for their trans warp conduits, and there was a sustained tachyon beam used as a weapon as well.

I would assume that physical would be any particle or particles that had mass. If it has inertia, then it doesn't get through.

Tachyons, though...is a whole other ball game. A tachyon can, theoretically, pass completely through the earth. Also, it is impossible for it to interact with matter (as we understand the theoretical particle.) Additionally, we do not know the extend to how the magic blocks. We only have the "physical." The furthest we can take that concept is all "physical" affects of matter that do not violate special relativity. Those that do could not be classified as falling under "physical" in relativistic terms. They would, by very definition, be a-physical.

Well, if air gets through, cannot the Federation bomb the school with Trilithium torpedo's? Iirc from the DS9 episode 'For the Uniform' it releases a deadly nerve gas the size of a freaking continent. The Defiant at least has some, and was in one of the TNG movies, so maybe.

And while it's true that the shields 'offer some protection against matter / energy entering.' It is nowhere near enough, or has the feats to stop an orbital bombardment.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well, if air gets through, cannot the Federation bomb the school with Trilithium torpedo's? Iirc from the DS9 episode 'For the Uniform' it releases a deadly nerve gas the size of a freaking continent. The Defiant at least has some, and was in one of the TNG movies, so maybe.

And while it's true that the shields 'offer some protection against matter / energy entering.' It is nowhere near enough, or has the feats to stop an orbital bombardment.

QFT

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's where she talks about the shields, what they are for, etc.

It should be towards the first 3rd of the book. The wiki would not have contained the same information: it's there, somewhere. Looks like I have to stop being lazy...but I don't WANT to read the whole damn book. Surely it's out there in a diigital form. Maybe I could "ctrl+f" it on a digital book.


I would assume that physical would be any particle or particles that had mass. If it has inertia, then it doesn't get through.

Tachyons, though...is a whole other ball game. A tachyon can, theoretically, pass completely through the earth. Also, it is impossible for it to interact with matter (as we understand the theoretical particle.) Additionally, we do not know the extend to how the magic blocks. We only have the "physical." The furthest we can take that concept is all "physical" affects of matter that do not violate special relativity. Those that do could not be classified as falling under "physical" in relativistic terms. They would, by very definition, be a-physical. As luck would have it I pulled out the physical book 7 opened to a random page and started reading.



The online search for the exact quote failed. but page 309, chapter 15, book 7, yeilded the information being sought.

Protego does indeed have physical effect in the books.

Originally posted by Creshosk
As luck would have it I pulled out the physical book 7 opened to a random page and started reading.



The online search for the exact quote failed. but page 309, chapter 15, book 7, yeilded the information being sought.

Protego does indeed have physical effect in the books.


BOOYA!

Thanks.


So it looks like I owe you one.

Originally posted by Borbarad
From that point onwards, your argument makes sense. Well done, pal.


Coming from you, that means a lot.


This is correct, but I was not really concerned about the various effects of magical spells. Instead, I just wanted to show that the arresto momentum spell would leave Harry's innards motionless. Because there is no natural division between the atoms and molecules that make up his body and the biological systems that freeze his body, any interference with internal systems would effect all of those components. Reducing an atom's momentum to zero would change its temperature to zero kelvin.

No other spell that freezes the body literally removes all kinetic energy. I was still concerned with the free motion of components of the target of the arresto momentum spell (i.e. Borg drones within a cube).


You are exactly right. I was concerned with uneven heating, but so long as the spell as you described it was in place, that was wrong. Retracted.



I was considering the weapons as "internal components." The Borg weapons are not external or mechanical in nature, so there would be no net movement of the vessel as a whole required. In fact, no motion is required at all. The Borg emitters are never shown to move during the movie, so they wouldn't need to move here. The electrons would move to the weapon systems and aiming would proceed normally.

I don't know if there are weapons on the bottom of a cube. It certainly seems to defeat the purpose of using a regular solid--a cube--with no obvious top or bottom if you don't put weapons on all sides. Anybody got clips of the battles in First Contact?


The Borg weapons do not appear to rely on the orientation of the Cube relative to the target, as I recall. Again, this could be solved by the footage from the movie.


Depending on planning by the Federation--which did, after all, summon the Borg with malice aforethought, which in my eyes means prep time--the Borg might just bathe the area in gamma radiation. They are obviously equipped to emit all sorts of fun rays (like time travel rays) so they could do the same here. Otherwise:


This seems reasonable. I do wonder if simple range limitations would put the highest cubes out of reach; outer space isn't very inviting for broomsticks or flame birds and apparition requires at least some knowledge of the destination. Otherwise, I totally agree. Anytime the wizards get a shot at Borg, the Borg get tossed.


This seems accurate, although the Borg probably have a little bit more time than "almost instantly."

I think we're in agreement on everything now except for the Wizard capability to reach the highest cubes/ships. Do you have a proposed tactic to destroy ships far outside of line of sight that the Wizards might not even know about?

What if Feds/The Borg en mass lock on to the Hogwarts lifeforms and beam them all 500 miles out into outer space?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
What if Feds/The Borg en mass lock on to the Hogwarts lifeforms and beam them all 500 miles out into outer space?

I thought of that already: I forgot about the "anti-technology" charm.

But I assumed that technology doesn't work on the inside, including trying to beam people too and from inside the charms.

My logic was: since EmR gets through, so could beaming people...but that's nulled by the anti-technology charms.

I think Creshosk had the best approach: they are still subject to gravity and if their shields can stand up against a large beat down, the changes in inertia OR beating them down into the earth, should certainy kill quite a few, if not all of the wizards.

Okay, but what if, then, the assimilated wizards counter with magic of their own? Some dark magics counter/negate those shield charms.

OR if ariel/orbital bombardment of the land/area itself is sufficient to break the land that Hogwarts is free of Earth, no matter how protected it is?

How about if The Feds, Borg project a localised force field around the Castle and simply remove the air from within it via transporters from orbit? I dont think their shields are gonna be absolute in the face of 200 ships nailing it simultaneously with quantum torpedos.... and How will Protego go when the Genesis wave rewrites everything's ass..?

Or when a subspace detonation occurs at Hogwarts almost ground zero?

Also the tech doing the beaming is in orbit, so what is this charms range...? 'Cause the rest of the tech on earth during the years that HP is set in seemed fine.

Also, what if a few ships detach from engaging Hogwarts and go slingshotting round our sun, going back to five minutes before the sheild spells were cast and then quantum torpedo their wizard asses into absolute nothingness..?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Also, what if a few ships detach from engaging Hogwarts and go slingshotting round our sun, going back to five minutes before the sheild spells were cast and then quantum torpedo their wizard asses into absolute nothingness..?

that is a feat for the borg, that being said they do that and wipe hogwarts out of existence before the fight even starts

Ah-hah. Yes the first contact maneuver.

Actually like I mentioned before the borg themselves don't need to do the slingshotting thing. They can use tachyons to open transwarp conduits. A tachyon pulse can be used to open a temporal rift.

Yep thats a given since this would have to be how the Borg and Feds make it back to Potter Era.

Just didnt wanna use it twice.

I don't know if this is accurate. Technology doesn't work inside, but the effects of technology might. Harry's clothing does not break down upon entering the grounds, even though it was created by technology. Is there any reason to think that a stream of matter will behave otherwise?

Originally posted by Zampanó
I don't know if this is accurate. Technology doesn't work inside, but the effects of technology might. Harry's clothing does not break down upon entering the grounds, even though it was created by technology. Is there any reason to think that a stream of matter will behave otherwise?


An excellent point.

I always questioned why electronic equipment won't work at Hogwarts, but it takes three and a half books for Harry's watch to stop working from going under water.

Is it electric or clockwork? I don't see why clockwork would be stopped by it personally.

It couldn't have been a magical watch, or else it wouldn't have stopped under water. There had to have been a battery inside it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I thought of that already: I forgot about the "anti-technology" charm. I can't seem to find any information on any sort of anti-technology charm outside of mention in other Harry Potter vs threads on various other sites.

Might you have more information available on where to narrow my search?

The most I can find is a Freezing charm(Not specifically anti-technology) disabling a burgler alarm (Somehow, guess that one didn't have a silent alarm to the alarm company) and a mention of computers, and radar going haywire around hogwarts., which might simply be from the magic "radiation" in the area, and a EM Shielded piece of technology might stil be able to function at a distance.

Since when can the wizards cast spells into space at objects they likely wouldn't be aware of and while they're busy doing their best to survive against the ones they can see? Anyone.

They could see the Borg torpedoes flying toward the ground, but not the Bog craft itself. Even seeing the Enterprise required a telescope that had been augmented by Geordi.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I can't seem to find any information on any sort of anti-technology charm outside of mention in other Harry Potter vs threads on various other sites.

Might you have more information available on where to narrow my search?

The most I can find is a Freezing charm(Not specifically anti-technology) disabling a burgler alarm (Somehow, guess that one didn't have a silent alarm to the alarm company) and a mention of computers, and radar going haywire around hogwarts., which might simply be from the magic "radiation" in the area, and a EM Shielded piece of technology might stil be able to function at a distance.


Didn't see this post.

To be honest, I do not know if the anti-technology magic exists inside of the movies: it may be a book only thing. Unless it's in the movies, it doesn't count.

However, the anti-tech charm thingie was in place because they kids wanted to use tech at one point and someone, most likely hermione, pointed out that tech doesn't work at hogwarts or something.



Edit -

This page makes mention of it.

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Hogwarts_School_of_Witchcraft_and_Wizardry

Apparantly, no tech was used at school, even in the movies, but it doesn't tell us what book the "no tech" magics came from.

Double edit -

Here's another reference I found.

http://www.matthauger.com/2010/09/why-no-electronics-at-harry-potters-hogwarts/

But that's a question.

It's not that we don't know if the book mentions it or not, it's if the movies do. We know the books do, somewhere.

Originally posted by Robtard
Since when can the wizards cast spells into space at objects they likely wouldn't be aware of and while they're busy doing their best to survive against the ones they can see? Anyone.

only in dream world can that happen

Originally posted by -Pr-
They could see the Borg torpedoes flying toward the ground, but not the Bog craft itself. Even seeing the Enterprise required a telescope that had been augmented by Geordi.

Pretty sure they travel extremely fast, so I can't see wizards targeting them each and every time. They've also have plenty of phasers arrays to fire down with, if needed.

I'm trying to remember where it was shown (Voyager?), but I think the Borg are capable of scooping up large sections of cities for use in mass-assimilation of a species with their multiple tracker-beams. Can't imagine Howgarts would pose a problem in being scooped up in kind.

Originally posted by Robtard
Pretty sure they travel extremely fast, so I can't see wizards targeting them each and every time. They've also have plenty of phasers arrays to fire down with, if needed.

I'm trying to remember where it was shown (Voyager?), but I think the Borg are capable of scooping up large sections of cities for use in mass-assimilation of a species with their multiple tracker-beams. Can't imagine Howgarts would pose a problem in being scooped up in kind.

Next Generation did that three times, in the Neutral Zone episode (iirc), Q Who, and more blatantly in Best of Both Worlds, where we see the actual craters made by the Borg craft.

Yeah definite basic Borg attributes established from early on.

Originally posted by Robtard
Since when can the wizards cast spells into space at objects they likely wouldn't be aware of and while they're busy doing their best to survive against the ones they can see? Anyone.

I've actually answered your questions already. You may want to read. I will just explain it again:

1) We've seen a Wizard firing a spell over a 160 kilometer distance on screen. Thus they could hit targets in lower orbit, if we just talk about the range.

2) Just imagine a Cube with three kilometers side length. Even if you put that into the orbit, it would still be visible. Just as real-life example: You can see the Mount Everest from the Tiger Hill (Darjeeling), despite of the fact that there are 107 miles (172 kilometers) of distance between the two mountains. So if the Borg happen to be in Lower Earth Orbit (160 - 2000 kilometers), they are still quite observeable - even with the naked eye. Not to mention the fact that Astronomy is a taught subject in the school and we've seen the astronomy tower in the movies...

Originally posted by Robtard
Pretty sure they travel extremely fast, so I can't see wizards targeting them each and every time.

Do I need to explain once again why "moving very fast" and "fire on stationary targets" are two options that don't go along that well? I can remember to have lectured you on this subject in the "SW vs ST" thread often enough. But just as a reminder: If you move with a "very fast speed" in relation to a stationary target, hitting it becomes rather difficult. Hence we never see warped ships attacking non warped ones in the ST universe.



They have phaser banks, which feature moveable parts outside of the ship. I've had a debate - with Zampano - about it, right here. It would be nice, if you'd read it so that I didn't have to repeat myself ad nauseam. Using any kind of petricifaction spell would probably "freeze" the emitters and thus prevent aiming.



By the very nature of the protections surrounding Hogwarts, they can't target anything down there. They would need to bombard an area without seeing what happens at all. The entire ground is unplotable and trying to "scoop up" the entire terrain will result in Wizards kicking their sorry Borgs asses.

Originally posted by dadudemon
To be honest, I do not know if the anti-technology magic exists inside of the movies: it may be a book only thing. Unless it's in the movies, it doesn't count.


It is obviously implied in "Chamber of Secrets", given that Colin Creevey has to use the rather old-fashioned Muggle camera in order to be able to take pictures in Hogwarts in a non-magical way.

That aside: One would expect that at least the muggle born students would carry the typically 90s technology for kids to the school, ranging from Walkman to Game Boy. The total absense of any sort of complex technology in a movie taking place in that time has to be explained - and it is in the books, with the explanation (magic killing complex technplogy) also being hinted to in the movies. That aside: Taking a look at the Forum Rules, non-movie feats also seem to be useable, if they don't contradict what is shown on screen...

I don't recall seeing any moving emiters in ST. Just the energy gathering and then striking in multiple places.