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For ages, I have been hearing non-stop to why this game is the best game ever. So, with very high hopes, I finally obtained a copy of the first two games, only to be very disapointed. Boring is what it is really. I never finished the first one.

Anyone else feel the same way?

its for the hardcore rpg fans, not for the type of people who think graphics make the best game. Im not saying you're one of those people..but id say you're not a jrpg fan and had no business playing the Sun in the first place.

Personally, I didn't like Golden Sun much either, and I 1) am a JRPG fan and 2) played it back when it first came out. Just nothing appealing about it.

Blasphemy. This thread is blasphemy.

Why? it has no redeeming qualities to it.

I've heard nothing but good about this game as well.. never got to play it though

usually people will give some kind of explanation as to why they didnt like something.. so, care to share?

Originally posted by Kosmic King
Why? it has no redeeming qualities to it.

It's a classic case of a young gamer not receiving the culture until its time has passed. Its pretty sad, actually.

Dude you have to get into the game brooo. Personally I think that game is badass and I'm gonna start a forum on why Golden Sun is the shit!

Originally posted by LLLLLink
It's a classic case of a young gamer not receiving the culture until its time has passed. Its pretty sad, actually.

And how old are you, exactly? Probably not old enough to make claims like that, I'm sure.

I played the game when it came out, and wasn't hugely impressed. I grew up on JRPGs, though, and it just didn't stand out. The djinn system was pretty neat but otherwise it was quite generic.

Didn't help that there were points where if you got stuck there, there was no way of progressing (nor any way of backtracking). That's just bad game design.

Originally posted by Peach
And how old are you, exactly? Probably not old enough to make claims like that, I'm sure.

I played the game when it came out, and wasn't hugely impressed. I grew up on JRPGs, though, and it just didn't stand out. The djinn system was pretty neat but otherwise it was quite generic.

Didn't help that there were points where if you got stuck there, there was no way of progressing (nor any way of backtracking). That's just bad game design.

About the same age as you. So, unless you consider yourself to be in the "not old enough" boat, then I believe you are mistaken.

I disagree about it being so generic. Just the fact that levelling up meant something was enough to set it apart from something like Final Fantasy. Plus, it was a handheld, which made it all the better.

I think the charm of Golden Sun depends entirely on how much experience you had with JRPGs when you played it. I had barely seen the genre at all when I played it, so I didn't see it as generic, and the djinn system and music were enthralling at the time. The first two games' pseudo-3D battle screens and highly-detailed sprites (for a GBA game) were also attractive points.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
About the same age as you. So, unless you consider yourself to be in the "not old enough" boat, then I believe you are mistaken.

I disagree about it being so generic. Just the fact that levelling up meant something was enough to set it apart from something like Final Fantasy. Plus, it was a handheld, which made it all the better.

Considering that I remember you talking about your first semester of college, I'm pretty sure you are significantly younger than I am. I was nearly 16 when Golden Sun came out (my brother had gotten it for Christmas that year), and had been playing JRPGs for over a decade by then. Just about everything in it I had seen elsewhere already. The djinn system really was the only thing that stood out as being different.

(also, FFVIII is the only Final Fantasy where leveling didn't matter, because monsters leveled with you and the draw system set your stats more than anything else)

Also, it being a handheld game doesn't automatically make it good or better than something else.

I'm not saying it's a bad game, but I think it's rather like FFVII - how good you think it is depends on how much experience with the genre you had before initially playing it, and it's got nostalgia working for it for those who did like it.

Originally posted by Peach
And how old are you, exactly? Probably not old enough to make claims like that, I'm sure.

I played the game when it came out, and wasn't hugely impressed. I grew up on JRPGs, though, and it just didn't stand out. The djinn system was pretty neat but otherwise it was quite generic.

Didn't help that there were points where if you got stuck there, there was no way of progressing (nor any way of backtracking). That's just bad game design.


Felix had a psyenergy power called retreat which would teleport you back to the beginning of any dungeon or place you were in. Isaac had it in the first game I believe.

Originally posted by narutoisthebest
Felix had a psyenergy power called retreat which would teleport you back to the beginning of any dungeon or place you were in. Isaac had it in the first game I believe.
Retreat didn't aid you everywhere. It was just bad game design.

Originally posted by narutoisthebest
Felix had a psyenergy power called retreat which would teleport you back to the beginning of any dungeon or place you were in. Isaac had it in the first game I believe.

As GK said, that wouldn't help you everywhere.

The fact that you can get stuck and unable to progress in the game (and unable to backtrack at all) is just really poor design.

Tell me one place you got stuck at and I'll help you with that. I don't understand how you got stuck anywhere while playing that game. It was a pretty simple game for me to pass and for thousands of others.

Well, I haven't touched the game in years, and don't own a GBA any longer. It's nothing to do with the difficulty, simply how the game was set up.

However, there was a boss battle while you're on a ship. If you can't beat that boss, you can't continue on. Also, if you can't beat the boss, you can't go back to level up further, as you're on a ship. If you get stuck there, you have no choice but to restart the game. And as it was several hours in, the fact that you have to restart is very frustrating.

I understand that the new one also has things that you can permanently miss, requiring you to start over if you want them.

That is just poor design.

Originally posted by Peach
Well, I haven't touched the game in years, and don't own a GBA any longer. It's nothing to do with the difficulty, simply how the game was set up.

However, there was a boss battle while you're on a ship. If you can't beat that boss, you can't continue on. Also, if you can't beat the boss, you can't go back to level up further, as you're on a ship. If you get stuck there, you have no choice but to restart the game. And as it was several hours in, the fact that you have to restart is very frustrating.

I understand that the new one also has things that you can permanently miss, requiring you to start over if you want them.

That is just poor design.



If you lose to a boss in Golden Sun you're automatically transferred to one of those reviving huts in a nearby town. So that means you can just leave the town, level up, and go back to whup the bosses ass

Originally posted by narutoisthebest
If you lose to a boss in Golden Sun you're automatically transferred to one of those reviving huts in a nearby town. So that means you can just leave the town, level up, and go back to whup the bosses ass

...except that wasn't the case with that fight at all - losing the fight was an automatic game over and option to reload your save. And the last save point before it was after a point where you can backtrack to level up further.

Punishing gameplay is not the same thing as bad gameplay design.

Originally posted by narutoisthebest
If you lose to a boss in Golden Sun you're automatically transferred to one of those reviving huts in a nearby town. So that means you can just leave the town, level up, and go back to whup the bosses ass
Except it doesn't do that when you fight the Kraken. You stay on the boat. That whole sequence was especially noted as being particularly badly designed for precisely that reason.

How about you don't patronize one of the mods, does that sound like a fun game? Drop it now. She didn't even say your pet game was bad, just generic, which is accurate.

Are you talking about the fight on the ship where you fight Briggs or the hydra?

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Except it doesn't do that when you fight the Kraken. You stay on the boat. That whole sequence was especially noted as being particularly badly designed for precisely that reason.

How about you don't patronize one of the mods, does that sound like a fun game? Drop it now. She didn't even say your pet game was bad, just generic, which is accurate.


Lmao you seem to be getting awfully touchy about the subject. Is it cause you mods like to stick up for each other? And calm down dude we were having a normal conversation about a game you're the one that just changed it to something else.

Many things she tends to refer to as generic often turn out not to be (case in point: Final Fantasy VII).

Originally posted by narutoisthebest
Lmao you seem to be getting awfully touchy about the subject. Is it cause you mods like to stick up for each other? And calm down dude we were having a normal conversation about a game you're the one that just changed it to something else.

Agreed.

Originally posted by narutoisthebest
Lmao you seem to be getting awfully touchy about the subject. Is it cause you mods like to stick up for each other? And calm down dude we were having a normal conversation about a game you're the one that just changed it to something else.
You were being incredibly condescending, about a video game, to a video game forum mod. Disregarding how ridiculous that looks on the face of it, you were being rude over several posts to someone much older and more mature than you. Learn how to conduct yourself like a respectful human being here, and you won't have a problem.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
You were being incredibly condescending, about a video game, to a video game forum mod. Disregarding how ridiculous that looks on the face of it, you were being rude over several posts to someone much older and more mature than you. Learn how to conduct yourself like a respectful human being here, and you won't have a problem.


Obviously you, sir, are not that mature because I was not being condescending at all. We were having a polite discussion until you decided to wiggle yourself in. If she had a problem with what I was saying she would have said something. So, I hope I'm not too immature by saying this, but you sir, are a complete arse.

Actually, yes, you were being extraordinarily condescending, despite having been shown to be incorrect several times. I myself did not tell you to knock it off because I try to not mod discussions that I am involved in as a poster. It's better form to allow the mod that is not involved do the modding if needed.

You, however, have not only stepped over the line this time, but have pole-vaulted across it. When a mod tells you to not do something, you don't do it. You don't argue it, and you certainly do not call names and bash them.

When you return from your break from the forum, you had better take the time to read the rules, because else your stay will be permanently ended.

Someone got owned alright


... in game

Originally posted by LLLLLink
It's a classic case of a young gamer not receiving the culture until its time has passed. Its pretty sad, actually.

I've played much older JRPGs and enjoyed them more. It was (and still is) a very poor game. The plot (when at all) is streched out and ultimately cliched, the music is mostly unremarkable forgetable, not to mention the ten minutes of talking, and other bad design (to which Peach has already pointed out). The only thing above averege about it were the graphics, and even then, I don't judge games by their graphics.

(post removed)

Originally posted by Kosmic King
Why? it has no redeeming qualities to it.

Yeah, (sorry, I don't mean to be patronising here), but yeah, no redeeming qualities except excellent graphics, amazing soundtrack and excellently told story.
I'll admit, the story was very cliched, but the reason it was so enticing was because it was very well told. I also must admit that the battle system was very generic, but still classic, simple and fun. Also the 'djinn system' in it was very good and allowed incorporation of smart tactics. The puzzles were also very challenging for me and certainly required a great deal of thought when attempting to solve them.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Retreat didn't aid you everywhere. It was just bad game design.
As far as I remember, the only places "Retreat" didn't aid you were places you didn't need it, like towns and the World Map. It was only available in dungeons as they were the places one would have difficulty navigating.

The best thing about this game series is the puzzles and the plethora of strategies you can get by removing/using djinns. Those are, I think, the main factors that set it apart from other RPGs, it's also a critical factor because it's the main difference between the Zelda series and random Hack&Slash RPGs (you will notice that for whichever reason some reviewers group the Action RPG series with Zelda-like games).

Puzzles exist in many RPGs, but they are rarely as well crafted. The Lufia series used to be great on the puzzles too, and even the pokemon series always carries a few. For whatever reason you'll rarely hear a word about the puzzles when it comes to qualifying a classic JRPG experience. This is one of those rare cases in which the mention is spot on.

Originally posted by Peach
...except that wasn't the case with that fight at all - losing the fight was an automatic game over and option to reload your save. And the last save point before it was after a point where you can backtrack to level up further.

What I don't get is how someone with 10 years JRPG experience found that fight so difficult that they had to restart the game. I'll admit that the game not allowing you to backtrack to level-grind and collect djinn was a design flaw (albeit a very minor one for the vast majority of people). That fight was very, very difficult for people like my older brother, who had hardly owned any video games before, let alone RPGs specifically. He was 9 at the time and he has told me that it took him 10-20 attempts to beat the Kraken on his first play through of the game. Sure, it took him a long time, and backtracking to level up would have helped, but he, who was someone with no RPG experience, still did it. So why couldn't someone with 10 years' RPG experience do it?
I personally found that fight a good challenge, but nowhere near as difficult as my brother had found it, but that was because I had had plenty of battle experience with GS in the "Battle Arena" mode of the game.

I dunno, maybe you just hadn't collected enough djinn or had fled from a lot of battles by that point, so weren't on a high enough level.

Anyway, your argument just doesn't add up.
Someone who has had no experience with RPGs taking 10-20 attempts to beat the Kraken--that, I can understand. But someone with TEN YEARS' experience with RPGs finds the same battle so difficult that they have to restart the game? Really? I really don't think that the developers saw that coming, so you can hardly blame poor design.
I don't mean to be insulting or patronising, I'm just saying that your argument doesn't make too much sense.
However, I suppose the developers should have allowed for backtracking for the sake of people who were inexperienced with RPGs, so might have a lot of difficulty with that part of the game. But, as I've said, despite being unable to backtrack and level up, it was still possible for the noob RPG players to defeat the Kraken. But in your case, stuff was the wrong way around--an RPG veteran needed to backtrack, and I don't think anyone could have predicted that, so, once again, I must say that you cannot blame 'poor design'. It must just have been that you didn't have enough djinn or hadn't leveled up enough.
It was perfectly possible for noobs to pass that boss fight, even if it took them a long time, so why not someone who has had ten years' experience with JRPGs?

Originally posted by Kosmic King
I've played much older JRPGs and enjoyed them more. It was (and still is) a very poor game. The plot (when at all) is streched out and ultimately cliched, the music is mostly unremarkable forgetable, not to mention the ten minutes of talking, and other bad design (to which Peach has already pointed out). The only thing above averege about it were the graphics, and even then, I don't judge games by their graphics.

I agree with the plot being cliched ultimately, but the intertwining plot devices within the first game, and between the first game and the second game were very well laid out and explained. Now, I haven't played many RPGs at all, but GS's plot devices strike me as being complex and original. And by 'plot devices' and how they 'intertwine' I mean the characters' paths in life; like how Lord Babi meets Kraden and raises him from an early age, then how Kraden moves to Vale to study alchemy more, and meets Isaac, Jenna and Garet in the process, obviously leading to some more complex and significant events like Kraden going with Isaac and friends to Sol Sanctum, only to be kidnapped by Saturos and Menardi. This, of course, leads to more troublesome things, like the frightening possibility of alchemy being unleashed upon the world, which triggers Isaac's quest to stop the lighthouses from being lit, and Felix's quest to light the lighthouses. Another example of this sort of thing is the lighting of Venus lighthouse, which causes an earthquake which causes a tsunami. That tsunami washes Felix, Jenna, Sheba, Kraden and Alex onto a nearby continent, along with a stranger named Piers, who joins Felix's group later. (You may not understand all of this if you have never played the second game).
Unlike the above rant of mine, I don't feel that the plot of GS is stretched out.

You also say that the music is 'mostly unremarkable and forgettable'. I cannot believe that anybody can think that. Dude, seriously, just listen to themes in the game like the Tolbi-Bound Ship Theme and Saturos's Theme. GS's music is awesome. Full stop. I don't even want to talk about this anymore.

I agree that the cutscenes are very long, but this is not necessarily a bad thing, as it is needed for story explanation and character development. The cutscenes can actually be entertaining, at least for those who have the patience and maturity to sit through them and truly acknowledge and appreciate the excellent effort the developers put into the story.