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Fight takes place from earth to the moon. cannot bfr past the moon.
1 min prep.

Team 2.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Team 2.


How do they win?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
How do they win? Couldn't Quasar manip the GL ring?

And nova should have no problems with MM.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Couldn't Quasar manip the GL ring?

And nova should have no problems with MM.

Manipulate the gl ring?

It's sad that a good reason was never given on how Marvell was able to probe Richards mind

Originally posted by iceman24567
It's sad that a good reason was never given on how Marvell was able to probe Richards mind

They called it "non psionic probing" in TI.
I guess it's implied that some kind of really powerful magic/cosmic force was used. =P
Ah well...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
They called it "non psionic probing" in TI.
I guess it's implied that some kind of really powerful magic/cosmic force was used. =P
Ah well... Comics being ambiguous go figure

team 1

Originally posted by Slaanesh
team 1

How do they do it?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
How do they do it?

i think Hal is better than Quasar or Nova..
MM is probably their equal..
so team 1 for the majority..

Sadly, team 1

Originally posted by iceman24567
Comics being ambiguous go figure "non standard" psionic probing. Most likely magic.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
i think Hal is better than Quasar or Nova..
MM is probably their equal..
so team 1 for the majority..

How is MM durability wise?

Originally posted by dmills
"non standard" psionic probing. Most likely magic. So magic based tp can affect Nova time to battle zone

Originally posted by iceman24567
So magic based tp can affect Nova time to battle zone Noooo! Rich I never meant to betray you lol!

Originally posted by Slaanesh
i think Hal is better than Quasar or Nova..
MM is probably their equal..
so team 1 for the majority.. I don't know man. Nova is pretty damn good himself. And a tactical genius to boot.

Originally posted by dmills
I don't know man. Nova is pretty damn good himself. And a tactical genius to boot.

i know..i'm not saying Hal win easily or anything like that..it'll be a good fight..but i'll give Hal a majority against Nova or Quasar..

Originally posted by dmills
How is MM durability wise?

Low to Mid Herald at least.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Manipulate the gl ring?

how/in what way?

Couldn't Wendell set the Q-Bands to 'vacuum mode' and simply drain Hal's ring dry, rendering him pretty much helpless? The Q-Bands can absorb and store ridiculous amounts of energy into the Quantum Zone.

Giant green boxing glove ftw. greenlandurn

Team 1 for a small majority. Good fight, though.

Split. Or a slight advantage to T2.

Quasar's powers are designed to take on GLs. Energy drain is its bread and butter (at least pre-resurrection Wendell's anyway). This would (at the very least) equalize things between him and Hal.

TP won't work too well on either Quasar and NP and I'm sure Rich would match MM in a fight due to his tactical savvy and overall power.

Wendell showed he's still an uber energy drainer during TI. I'll post scans later. With that said, I doubt he could just do that to Hall easily. GL should be able to fight that off somewhat... (willpower)???
The "non-psionic probing" on NP during TI was needed to advance the plot. So it's basically or close to being PIS...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wendell showed he's still an uber energy drainer during TI. I'll post scans later. With that said, I doubt he could just do that to Hall easily. GL should be able to fight that off somewhat... (willpower)???
The "non-psionic probing" on NP during TI was needed to advance the plot. So it's basically or close to being PIS...

I wouldn't call it "PIS" as it wasn't stupid, yet plot-driven. Best to argue it as a specific plot-device and the being who did it was well beyond High Herald in power anyway.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I wouldn't call it "PIS" as it wasn't stupid, yet plot-driven. Best to argue it as a specific plot-device and the being who did it was well beyond High Herald in power anyway.



thats why i didnt call it PIS outright since Lord Marvell was above Nova's league anyway. Plus it wasn't completely ridiculous.

Wendell react's within a nanosecond and leeches power from SS, Nova, BRB, Gladz, and Ronan to create a very powerful shield.

http://img200.imageshack.us/i/ti4headshot032.jpg/
http://img249.imageshack.us/i/ti07.jpg/
http://img210.imageshack.us/i/ti08.jpg/

posted as promised =D

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wendell react's within a nanosecond and leeches power from SS, Nova, BRB, Gladz, and Ronan to create a very powerful shield.

http://img200.imageshack.us/i/ti4headshot032.jpg/
http://img249.imageshack.us/i/ti07.jpg/
http://img210.imageshack.us/i/ti08.jpg/

posted as promised =D You know what's funny? Up until that point I had no clue that Quasar could swag jack. I knew he could absorb energy, but not absorb it and use it for a power-up.

Originally posted by dmills
You know what's funny? Up until that point I had no clue that Quasar could swag jack. I knew he could absorb energy, but not absorb it and use it for a power-up.

Really?? O_O Classic Wendell did that ALL the time back in the day...

Quasar over Hal, J'onn over Nova.
close fight. DC takes it barely

Originally posted by dmills
You know what's funny? Up until that point I had no clue that Quasar could swag jack. I knew he could absorb energy, but not absorb it and use it for a power-up.

He not only absorbed, he basically siphoned it off from them..

Originally posted by Warlord
Quasar over Hal, J'onn over Nova.
close fight. DC takes it barely


How does Quasar stop GL and how does J'onn stop Nova??

MM can phase in and out, while absorbing earth to get a strength amp.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
How does Quasar stop GL and how does J'onn stop Nova?? They don't. Quasar can match Hal all day and as far as I can see without the TP option MM has no choice but to try and out muscle NP. Not a good idea.

And Hal can match Quasar. MM has quite a few tricks to take down top tiers.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
MM can phase in and out, while absorbing earth to get a strength amp. That's fine. Nova puts him in a gravity node -which traps intangible beings- and compresses it to the size of a thumb tack.

Originally posted by dmills
That's fine. Nova puts him in a gravity node -which traps intangible beings- and compresses it to the size of a thumb tack.

it traps ALL intangible types?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wendell react's within a nanosecond facepalm

You think Quasar's reaction time is within 0.00000001 seconds because he said "he didn't give us a nanosecond's grace"?

I won't even point out that it's a gross idiocy if you've actually read up on the character, because this goes far beyond that.

OOPS

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
How does Quasar stop GL and how does J'onn stop Nova??

let's see... Quasar is like Hal only linked to an inexhaustible power source. In addition he's one of the best energy manipulators/drainers in MU. Hal is more creative with his powers and will give Q a hard fight but I see him loosing in the end. Nova has all the tools to counter or beat MM but Jonn has tons more experience and I see his fighting spirit prevailing in that fight.

Originally posted by Warlord
let's see... Quasar is like Hal only linked to an inexhaustible power source.

No, he isn't. He doesn't have anywhere near the versatility that Hal Jordan does, and many more limitations. He's also not nearly as powerful on a raw scale, regularly getting shown up by top tier strength characters like gladiator, incapable of shield himself from even the photosphere of the sun, etc.

The whole point of Quasar was that he would be a more realistic take on the Green Lantern formula. More everyman, less fearless, and with more logical power restraints, vs the Green Lantern 'wishing ring'.




Within the electromagnetic spectrum, absolutely. Anyone outside of it, though, is essentially immune to his advances.




Laughable, honestly, given their respective track records against top flight foes.




Nova could potentially get a couple over MM, but he's significantly less powerful and less versatile than Martian Manhunter. It's hard to give him the fight on any grounds -- neither on paper nor based on their respective track records.

Originally posted by Desaad
Nova could potentially get a couple over MM, but he's significantly less powerful and less versatile than Martian Manhunter. It's hard to give him the fight on any grounds -- neither on paper nor based on their respective track records. lol?

It's the reality of his (lack of a) record against legitimate top tiers.

Originally posted by Warlord
let's see... Quasar is like Hal only linked to an inexhaustible power source. In addition he's one of the best energy manipulators/drainers in MU. Hal is more creative with his powers and will give Q a hard fight but I see him loosing in the end. Nova has all the tools to counter or beat MM but Jonn has tons more experience and I see his fighting spirit prevailing in that fight. You see his fighting spirit prevailing over Dick freakin Rider?! Coming from anyone else I'd lol, but for you to say that I have to look at it seriously seeing as though you're very familiar with Nova. You really think so?

Originally posted by dmills
You see his fighting spirit prevailing over Dick freakin Rider?! Coming from anyone else I'd lol, but for you to say that I have to look at it seriously seeing as though you're very familiar with Nova. You really think so?

ah well I'm a huge MM fan reading him since the first JLA book. He's the body and soul of the league. he can pull it through when he needs to

Originally posted by Desaad
It's the reality of his (lack of a) record against legitimate top tiers. Ah, but you said he's "significantly less powerful and less versatile." If you're arguing lack of record I get that. I don't necessarily agree, but I get it. The whole "underdog average kid from Jersey" shtik that writers feel they have to forever pin on the character. But if you know the character then you know how much power he really has. Especially in a pis free forum.

Originally posted by Warlord
ah well I'm a huge MM fan reading him since the first JLA book. He's the body and soul of the league. he can pull it through when he needs to I hear ya.

Originally posted by dmills
That's fine. Nova puts him in a gravity node -which traps intangible beings- and compresses it to the size of a thumb tack.

Not going to work. MM doesnt do density style intangibility. He shifts his mass to another dimension.


And I still have trouble seeing Nova, physically, being on Superman (MM) level.

Originally posted by dmills
Ah, but you said he's "significantly less powerful and less versatile." If you're arguing lack of record I get that. I don't necessarily agree, but I get it. The whole "underdog average kid from Jersey" shtik that writers feel they have to forever pin on the character. But if you know the character then you know how much power he really has. Especially in a pis free forum.

His battle power and versatility are demonstrated via his track record.

And whatever you want to say about Nova in a "PIS" free forum goes about 5X for Martian Manhunter, who has every power under the sun.

Based on his showing against Xenith, though, who I view as Supergirl level, I don't see his raw power on anything resembling MM's, and his lack of versatility relative to one of the most infinitely adaptable heroes in any universe is self evident (and no sleight to Rich).

Originally posted by Desaad
His battle power and versatility are demonstrated via his track record.

And whatever you want to say about Nova in a "PIS" free forum goes about 5X for Martian Manhunter, who has every power under the sun.

Based on his showing against Xenith, though, who I view as Supergirl level, I don't see his raw power on anything resembling MM's, and his lack of versatility relative to one of the most infinitely adaptable heroes in any universe is self evident (and no sleight to Rich). The Xentih fight was a slightly below average showing for Nova. He's stepped his game up significantly higher then that before. I think people put a little too much into that fight to be honest. The guy was reading while she was wailing away on him for goodness sakes lol! He's done better vs Thor, Glads, Super Nova etc., Sphinx etc.

The guy easily was oneshotting Annihilus's moon sized dreadships and oneshotted the planet sized flag ship which destroyed millions of the wave stationed near Xandar. His gravimetric pulse was detected from over 9 lightyears away. Iirc in a recent Hulk issue he had to hold back his best punch for fear of destroying everything for miles around. I could be mistaken about that though.

The energy siphoning suit and mental inhibitors are a plot device to keep the hero from being too powerful ala Super Nova.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Not going to work. MM doesnt do density style intangibility. He shifts his mass to another dimension.


And I still have trouble seeing Nova, physically, being on Superman (MM) level. Now you learn something new everyday cause I darn sure didn't know that

Nova has trapped a being of pure psionic energy (though it eventually figured out how to escape) and has cut off magical transmission from another dimension with his grav nodes. Not sure if it'll work with what MM does, but gravity tends to complicate things quite a bit in comics lol.

I hear you on that. Nova is a class 100 who can amp and I'd put his durability and damage soak up there with any high herald.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Not going to work. MM doesnt do density style intangibility. He shifts his mass to another dimension.


And I still have trouble seeing Nova, physically, being on Superman (MM) level.

yep, MM phasing works differently than say Shadowcat.

Originally posted by dmills
Iirc in a recent Hulk issue he had to hold back his best punch for fear of destroying everything for miles around. I could be mistaken about that though.



Your not mistaken, he was forced to hold back

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Your not mistaken, he was forced to hold back Thanks. I haven't had a chance to read it yet. Could you give the context if you don't mind?

i cant remember off top EXACTLY how it went, but Nova and a couple Avengers were tasked with taking down Hulk & co, and I believe it was Tony who made him fall back because he didnt want him unleashing too much power IIRC.

Team 1 wins.

Team 2

Originally posted by Desaad
No, he isn't. He doesn't have anywhere near the versatility that Hal Jordan does, and many more limitations. He's also not nearly as powerful on a raw scale, regularly getting shown up by top tier strength characters like gladiator, incapable of shield himself from even the photosphere of the sun, etc.

The whole point of Quasar was that he would be a more realistic take on the Green Lantern formula. More everyman, less fearless, and with more logical power restraints, vs the Green Lantern 'wishing ring'.




Within the electromagnetic spectrum, absolutely. Anyone outside of it, though, is essentially immune to his advances.




Laughable, honestly, given their respective track records against top flight foes.




Nova could potentially get a couple over MM, but he's significantly less powerful and less versatile than Martian Manhunter. It's hard to give him the fight on any grounds -- neither on paper nor based on their respective track records.

what you mentioned was partially true in the begining of his series.
Quasar's only limitation was his inexperience with the bands.
You say he doesn't have raw power and you bring the Gladiator instance as an example which is an instant where quasar specifically stated he didn't use the bands full power to restrain him. and then you use another low showing for his shields. Anyway I'm not gonna turn this into a wendel respect thread but someone who has stoped blasts from Watchers and Galactus and has gone toe to toe with Surfer, Firelord and Maelstorm has more than enough raw power to deal with a lantern.

As for him being able only to drain the EM spectrum, again that was only in the begining of his series. Draining sound, power cosmic, zero energy etc prove otherwise. Baring magic and darkforce the Qbands candrain/manipulate virtually any energy source

^^^ So you have Quasar who can absorb and drain energy and Nova who can absorb energy.

Originally posted by Warlord
As for him being able only to drain the EM spectrum, again that was only in the begining of his series.

Do you have an issue number where they explained how he was able to absorb energy outside the EM Spectrum?



When did this happen?



Do you have proof the power cosmic and zero energy aren't in the EM spectrum according to Marvel? Because when Jack and Quasar fought, Jack grabbed Quasar's arms and was "pumping gigavolts of power into the bands" and Quasar had to get him off him.

"Gigavolts of power" is a dead give-away.



Darkforce, magic, psionics, weak force, kinetic energy, Dr Spectrum's from Squadron Supreme energy, etc....

Originally posted by zopzop
Do you have an issue number where they explained how he was able to absorb energy outside the EM Spectrum?



When did this happen?



Do you have proof the power cosmic and zero energy aren't in the EM spectrum according to Marvel? Because when Jack and Quasar fought, Jack grabbed Quasar's arms and was "pumping gigavolts of power into the bands" and Quasar had to get him off him.

"Gigavolts of power" is a dead give-away.



Darkforce, magic, psionics, weak force, kinetic energy, Dr Spectrum's from Squadron Supreme energy, etc....

Annihilation. He draws energy from Bill Surfer Glads etc.
He drained a star (a star's explosion is not just em energy)
etc

Sound - Klaw

Do you have proof that Zero energy IS part of the EM spectrum?

Example of him having problems with the weak force? (and please let it not be from his firs issues)

Originally posted by Warlord
what you mentioned was partially true in the begining of his series.
Quasar's only limitation was his inexperience with the bands.

While it's true that experience/inexperience had something to do with his limitations at the beginning of his career, this was not the case with electromagnetic spectrum energy drain. That was a specific property of the bands themselves, as Mark Gruenwald himself elucidated upon in his Quasar 'bible'.

What you're talking about first had to do with travel speed (which he eventually got around by learning Quantum Jumping) and then by the limitations of Quantum Jumping (at first hew as unable to jump in-atmosphere, eventually figured out how to make constructs to get around that).




You'll have to provide a quote from that, or I'll look it up myself. He couldn't even get Gladiator to LET GO OF HIM, much less restrain him. Gladiator was destroying everything he (Quasar) through at him by FLEXING. He was literally helpless, and had to be saved by a whisper in Gladiator's ear from Black Bolt.

And he never mentioned not trying to restrain him with everything he had.



Well, it says something about the nature of the bands. He was specifically unable to survive being that close to a sun -- something repeated by Phyla Vell, incidentally, in the recent Guardians of the Galaxy run.



Okay, but energy manipulators have shown the ability to stop and hurt both, (Red Hulk and Lunat!k have both done similar to a Watcher) and that was a particularly low showing for Galactus (who has, under similarly low showings, by laid low by The Thing).





Well, Maelstrom and Quasar were both all kinds of altered and powered up when they went at it, hardly indicative of what his normal abilities were, and while he did pretty well against the Surfer, he was on the losing end of that one even before he started throwing the fight.

Quasar might be capable of dealing with 'a' random lantern, but at their bases a Lantern is going to be much more powerful and much more versatile than a Quantum Band user is going to be, and Hal is certainly the best Green Lantern wielder we've yet seen. Even if you think the same about Wendell -- he's certainly the best character to have the bands long term, but I think the implication was that some of the earlier band wielders like Stigian Starbender were better -- he's still going to be put at a vast, vast disadvantage.



Quasar didn't drain power cosmic. He drained some aspect of the Surfer's energies, which is just star/stellar energy for the most part. I have no doubt that he could do that under almost any circumstances. Same stuff that Superman absorbs (which is, in fact, electromagnetic energy). The Power Cosmic itself is what Surfer possesses, what gives him his powers. If Quasar had been absorbing that, than Surfer would have been powerless (see vs Doom).

Zero Energy is likewise 'zero point energy', and just a manner of generating normal electromagnetic energy. Feel free to read the original arc by John Byrne.

He couldn't drain extra dimensional energies, and it's not an issue of Quasar/Wendell being unable to do so -- the bands don't have control over those energies.

And he said it over and over again. When he came up against Anti Matter in issue 34, he made it clear that he couldn't absorb it and he couldn't contain it. "Something my bands have no control over". When Kismet offerred to try to do something about it, he said "Since YOUR cosmic power is part of the same ELECTROMAGNETIC SPECTRUM I CONTROL, it probably wouldn't do anything anyway..."

Examples such as these abound.

Originally posted by Warlord
Annihilation. He draws energy from Bill Surfer Glads etc.

PIS. He's never drained magic or psionics before. Barring an explanation on how he all of a sudden has this ability, I'll chalk this up to PIS.




Which incident are you referring to here? It can't be the one from the "Journey into Mystery" arc because all he did was channel energy from a solar flare or something and that even strained him badly. Unless you are referring to something else, then I'll have to ask what issue did that take place in.





When? Not the "Acts of Vengeance" tie in in Quasar. Because he just encased Klaw in a vacuum and sound (Klaw is living sound waves)
can't exist in a vacuum. He didn't drain anything. PS this no longer works vs Klaw.



Did you look up what "gigavolt" means?



Yes vs Half Life. Too bad you don't like the fact that it's from his earlier issues. Now do you have an example of Quasar affecting or having control over Weak Force? What issue did this take place in?

Do you have an issue explaining that Quasar now can affect Weak Force? What issue is it?

Originally posted by Desaad
While it's true that experience/inexperience had something to do with his limitations at the beginning of his career, this was not the case with electromagnetic spectrum energy drain. That was a specific property of the bands themselves, as Mark Gruenwald himself elucidated upon in his Quasar 'bible'.

What you're talking about first had to do with travel speed (which he eventually got around by learning Quantum Jumping) and then by the limitations of Quantum Jumping (at first hew as unable to jump in-atmosphere, eventually figured out how to make constructs to get around that).




You'll have to provide a quote from that, or I'll look it up myself. He couldn't even get Gladiator to LET GO OF HIM, much less restrain him. Gladiator was destroying everything he (Quasar) through at him by FLEXING. He was literally helpless, and had to be saved by a whisper in Gladiator's ear from Black Bolt.

And he never mentioned not trying to restrain him with everything he had.



Well, it says something about the nature of the bands. He was specifically unable to survive being that close to a sun -- something repeated by Phyla Vell, incidentally, in the recent Guardians of the Galaxy run.



Okay, but energy manipulators have shown the ability to stop and hurt both, (Red Hulk and Lunat!k have both done similar to a Watcher) and that was a particularly low showing for Galactus (who has, under similarly low showings, by laid low by The Thing).





Well, Maelstrom and Quasar were both all kinds of altered and powered up when they went at it, hardly indicative of what his normal abilities were, and while he did pretty well against the Surfer, he was on the losing end of that one even before he started throwing the fight.

Quasar might be capable of dealing with 'a' random lantern, but at their bases a Lantern is going to be much more powerful and much more versatile than a Quantum Band user is going to be, and Hal is certainly the best Green Lantern wielder we've yet seen. Even if you think the same about Wendell -- he's certainly the best character to have the bands long term, but I think the implication was that some of the earlier band wielders like Stigian Starbender were better -- he's still going to be put at a vast, vast disadvantage.



Quasar didn't drain power cosmic. He drained some aspect of the Surfer's energies, which is just star/stellar energy for the most part. I have no doubt that he could do that under almost any circumstances. Same stuff that Superman absorbs (which is, in fact, electromagnetic energy). The Power Cosmic itself is what Surfer possesses, what gives him his powers. If Quasar had been absorbing that, than Surfer would have been powerless (see vs Doom).

Zero Energy is likewise 'zero point energy', and just a manner of generating normal electromagnetic energy. Feel free to read the original arc by John Byrne.

He couldn't drain extra dimensional energies, and it's not an issue of Quasar/Wendell being unable to do so -- the bands don't have control over those energies.

it's hard to replay in this manner.
I'll summarize (some points at last-too lazy to go through all this).
- he did mention he wasn't giving it all against gladiator (check it and see for yourself)
-he has other showings in addition to the galactus one (watcher, group of people including hulk herc, etc...) so let us not lowball
- the sun thing seems funny since has effortlessly drained stars getting hurt by the aura of one seems nothing more than bad writing. Plus phyla=/= Wendel
- I would like the scan of the Zero Energy explanation as part of the em spectrum
- Quasar in Annihilation was SPECIFICALLY mentioned to siphon energy from Surfer, Nova, Bill Glads etc... Saying he just drained em energy is pure speculation.
-Maelstorm and Quasar have fought before the instance you mention (the powered up fight)
- You actually think the distance between Hal and Wendel is vast. I don't. after all seeing how many times in the past someone have drained a power ring I maintain the opinion that Quasar can do it (IIRC Dr light has done the same). Anyway each with his opinion I guess

Originally posted by zopzop
PIS. He's never drained magic or psionics before. Barring an explanation on how he all of a sudden has this ability, I'll chalk this up to PIS.




Which incident are you referring to here? It can't be the one from the "Journey into Mystery" arc because all he did was channel energy from a solar flare or something and that even strained him badly. Unless you are referring to something else, then I'll have to ask what issue did that take place in.





When? Not the "Acts of Vengeance" tie in in Quasar. Because he just encased Klaw in a vacuum and sound (Klaw is living sound waves)
can't exist in a vacuum. He didn't drain anything. PS this no longer works vs Klaw.



Did you look up what "gigavolt" means?



Yes vs Half Life. Too bad you don't like the fact that it's from his earlier issues. Now do you have an example of Quasar affecting or having control over Weak Force? What issue did this take place in?

Do you have an issue explaining that Quasar now can affect Weak Force? What issue is it?

you are right on klaw. that's the case I was talking about.
the star thing was from another book -i'll have to check it
Ok for now. I'll have to see more from the new book he features until then I suppose you can call his latest feats pis

Originally posted by Warlord
it's hard to replay in this manner.
I'll summarize (some points at last-too lazy to go through all this).
- he did mention he wasn't giving it all against gladiator (check it and see for yourself)

I'll check it, but I remember him being DESPERATE to get him off, and that wouldn't explain why he needed Black Bolt to come and save him.



I'm not lowballing, I'm contextualizing. Gruenwald was clearly creating a more 'realistic' cosmic crimefighter in quasar. That was his mission statement. He didn't want a fearless testpilot who got a wishing ring based on the strength of his will and his pure spirit. He wanted a normal, soft spoken everyman who got a weapon based on hard scientific theory.



He has never effortlessly drained stars. That is a lie. The best he did was once blast out something that was supposed to be as bright as a star, which is incredibly different. GL's have had blasts that could be seen for lightyears too.

Quasar's SHIELDS are clearly not up to the task of a sun. Tough titties and all that. Meanwhile rookie GL's frolic through the cores of suns like they are nothing more than a spring shower (literally, that is the narration).



That's cool, you're welcome to look it up, just as you are requiring me to look up the Gladiator reference.



No, it's using what we know about the character and extrapolating from out there. Nova, Bill, Gladiator, Surfer...all have some electromagnetic component to their powers. Bill's part machine, Nova's powers are cosmic in nature, Glad's heat/atomic vision, Surfer's stellar energies...




Not when they were both at 'normal' base levels.



I KNOW it's vast, because I've seen the relative versatilities and scales that they both work at. You'll never see Quasar destroy or move a planet, hold together the continents of Earth, TRAVEL light speed, manipulate matter, replicate psionics, increase his physical strength directly (the one person to do that has now been retconned as using synthetic bands), alter genetics/biology, travel through or stop time. All of these are things that a competent Green Lantern can/will do.

Just checked the Quasar/Gladiator confrontation myself...

Yes, the initial 'holding him back' that Gladiator flexed out of was only 'pretty darn strong' and not at 'maximum strength', that is true, but he also makes it clear that the NEXT time he faces Gladiator he WILL be using maximum strength, and the next time he faces him...is just a few panels later. So the thing Gladiator casually flexed out of, not maximum strength constructs.

But Quasar desperately trying to get Gladiator to let go of his arm? His arm being crushed through his aura by a one handed Gladiator? The spikes that Quasar desperately projected from his bands into Gladiator's hands to get him off?

That would all, by the structure of the scene, have been at 'maximum' strength, and he STILL needed Black Bolt to come save him on one occasion, then lockjaw to come save him because Black Bolt's whisper in the ear trick wasn't enough!

He was getting worked, and worked hard.

Originally posted by Desaad

And he said it over and over again. When he came up against Anti Matter in issue 34, he made it clear that he couldn't absorb it and he couldn't contain it. "Something my bands have no control over". When Kismet offerred to try to do something about it, he said "Since YOUR cosmic power is part of the same ELECTROMAGNETIC SPECTRUM I CONTROL, it probably wouldn't do anything anyway..."

Thank you, thank you! This is what I was looking for! I should feel stupid though, it's part of the "Fire in the Sky" story which showed Binary's true power. I loved that issue and should have known that quote was there.

Here it is on panel :
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4351/quasar03416.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



It was implied in the fight, "he's pumping gigavolts of power directly into the Bands".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigavolt


It's in the EM spectrum.

Originally posted by Blair Wind

And I still have trouble seeing Nova, physically, being on Superman (MM) level.
Even so, his durability and damage soak is as high herald as it gets, and he's not so far behind them physically that its a big deal either, especially considering amping with the Nova Force and gravity manipulation. Also he's battled people considered to be on or above that level physically and done very well.

On a raw power/energy scale I'm ignorant of the extent of MM's energy levels, but Nova's are off the scale and I can't imagine mm has more then the entirety of the Nova Force.

I say team two.

Stick Quasar on MM and have him light his arse up with fire - from the sun as he did when he tapped into a star when he fought the Rogue Watcher. Quasar is immune to psi as well.

Have Rich take on Hal using Grav. Rich's shields should be sufficient to protect him long enough until Quasar comes over to help. Or for that matter what if Nova unloads a super ultra heavy grav beam on him? GL can't resist that much gravity can he?


Or, stick Quasar on Hal - and Quasar could just dump and trap Hal in the Quantum Zone. I can't recall, but in that Gladiator fight you all mention, Quasar said, previous to that, that he wouldn't do that anymore? I think that's right. So he changes his mind and does it. Anyway, Quasar's will power has been shown to be greater than Surfer's and Beta Ray Bill's (Star Masters) - so I would say an even match at least. Plus, Q's shields are pretty darn powerful as his constructs have been shown to withstand practically all the heavy hitters in the Marvel U.

Does GL's ring fall under the electromagetic spectrum? Not sure, as it is the "emotional spectrum" - has this ever been touched upon in GL?
If Quasar has the ability to drain his ring - fight's over.

Regarding Quasar absorbing and using others powers - he is not a leech and cannot just suck it up. It has to be fired at him and then the bands drain the source. In his battle against the Surfer, he was draining Surfer of the Power Cosmic (as it does lie within the electromagnetic spectrum) - however Quasar could barely dent the Surfer. Say using a straw to drain a firehose for example. Of course, Quasar was forced to lose etc.

Nova vs MM would be interesting. Again, Nova has psi-shielding as well. How would the gravity of a black hole effect the MM's ability to stay coherent and form solid? I'm not that up on my MM - but he seems the weaker link. So I give it to #2!

From what was shown in Blackest Night, I don't think it's been explicitly stated that the Emotional Spectrum was outside the regular EM spectrum and not EM wavelengths in as much as the source of the spectrum draws from the energy of life itself, moreover specific emotional expressions represent wavebands within the spectrum.

Plus, iirc, Dr. Light and Tangent Superman had no problems manipulating the energy, so I see no reason as to why the Q-bands or someone like Captain Atom or Firestorm wouldn't be able to manipulate the energy.

Team 1.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Team 1.

i was wondering why the martian mind hasnt posted on this thread involving his favorite martian. btw, theres a heated quasar vs mm thread going on as i type.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Team 1. Yeah cause you're not biased

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Team 1. Now I'm confident team 2 wins.

Originally posted by illadelph12
From what was shown in Blackest Night, I don't think it's been explicitly stated that the Emotional Spectrum was outside the regular EM spectrum and not EM wavelengths in as much as the source of the spectrum draws from the energy of life itself, moreover specific emotional expressions represent wavebands within the spectrum.

Plus, iirc, Dr. Light and Tangent Superman had no problems manipulating the energy, so I see no reason as to why the Q-bands or someone like Captain Atom or Firestorm wouldn't be able to manipulate the energy.

It's pretty much all speculation.

Originally posted by illadelph12
From what was shown in Blackest Night, I don't think it's been explicitly stated that the Emotional Spectrum was outside the regular EM spectrum and not EM wavelengths in as much as the source of the spectrum draws from the energy of life itself, moreover specific emotional expressions represent wavebands within the spectrum.

Plus, iirc, Dr. Light and Tangent Superman had no problems manipulating the energy, so I see no reason as to why the Q-bands or someone like Captain Atom or Firestorm wouldn't be able to manipulate the energy.

Dr. Light HAS actually shown difficulty absorbing the Green Lantern energy, during Hal's run, and whats more has demonstrated the ability to absorb and control energies outside the electromag spectrum, including magical energies.

So he's not a good example, really. The exact nature of the GL energy is totally up for grabs, but the emotional spectrum stuff seems to indicate that it's a form of psionic/soul energy, not direct/normal electromagnetic energy, and that makes it a form of energy OUTSIDE of Quasars ability to control.

Double

Originally posted by Desaad
Dr. Light HAS actually shown difficulty absorbing the Green Lantern energy, during Hal's run, and whats more has demonstrated the ability to absorb and control energies outside the electromag spectrum, including magical energies.

So he's not a good example, really. The exact nature of the GL energy is totally up for grabs, but the emotional spectrum stuff seems to indicate that it's a form of psionic/soul energy, not direct/normal electromagnetic energy, and that makes it a form of energy OUTSIDE of Quasars ability to control.

I probably should have specified I was speaking on Hoshi, the female Dr. Light, not the rapist/supervillain Dr. Light, though I suppose, now that you mention it, he's an example as well.

There's also, most recently, Halo during Blackest Night.

There seems to be a precedent.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I probably should have specified I was speaking on Hoshi, the female Dr. Light, not the rapist/supervillain Dr. Light, though I suppose, now that you mention it, he's an example as well.

There's also, most recently, Halo during Blackest Night.

There seems to be a precedent.

Halo definitely isn't limited to the electromag spectrum. That was the point of her appearance during Blackest Night -- that she could access the EMOTIONAL spectrum.

To say the Red 'fire' is electromagnetic spectrum energy, for instance, makes no sense, given the strange properties it has. It's obviously something far more esoteric.

So your saying that the point of her (Halo's) appearance was to establish that a character whose powers are completely EM based could also effect the emotional spectrum, which can also be interpreted as a sort of unified field theory, as well.

I can see that.

There's also the comment made by Dr. Stein that the Firestorm Matrix was part of the spark of life, or "White Light", as it were in Blackest Night, which would also allude to a unified field theory of sorts.

So yeah, I personally think the Quantum Bands should work without issue given the precedent.

Originally posted by Desaad
Halo definitely isn't limited to the electromag spectrum. That was the point of her appearance during Blackest Night -- that she could access the EMOTIONAL spectrum.

To say the Red 'fire' is electromagnetic spectrum energy, for instance, makes no sense, given the strange properties it has. It's obviously something far more esoteric.

True. The energy from any ring corps seems much more esoteric than your basic EM spectrum.

re-reading some of my old books I've seen Quasar draining the energies of Adam Warlock (non EM based for sure) and hold the whole Imperial Guard at bay (Gladiator included) with his constructs. Quasar had grown in power since the beginning off his series no mater what people wan to believe

Originally posted by Warlord
re-reading some of my old books I've seen Quasar draining the energies of Adam Warlock (non EM based for sure)

They are, Adam is a male version of Kismet (Her). And Kismet's powers fall within the EM spectrum. Notice how he couldn't do jack vs the Soul Gem's blasts, because they are outside the EM spectrum.



Are you referring to the Operation Galactic Storm tie in? Because those were illusions. There were only 3 Imperial Guard there and Gladiator wasn't among them. It was Impulse, Magique, and Manta. Out of those three only Impulse has any kind of offensive energy power. Magique's only power is illusion casting and Manta's only note worthy power is her ability to blind people.

Originally posted by zopzop
They are, Adam is a male version of Kismet (Her). And Kismet's powers fall within the EM spectrum. Notice how he couldn't do jack vs the Soul Gem's blasts, because they are outside the EM spectrum.



Are you referring to the Operation Galactic Storm tie in? Because those were illusions. There were only 3 Imperial Guard there and Gladiator wasn't among them. It was Impulse, Magique, and Manta. Out of those three only Impulse has any kind of offensive energy power. Magique's only power is illusion casting and Manta's only note worthy power is her ability to blind people.

yes I remember later in the fight when he used the gem he did beat him. But how are we sure that his energies are EM based?

Ah so the gladiator in this page was an illusion ok. my bad

Originally posted by Warlord
yes I remember later in the fight when he used the gem he did beat him. But how are we sure that his energies are EM based?

Wasn't Adam created by some guys (AIM or something I forgot the name), the same people that made Her (Kismet). Since Her's (Kismet) powers fall within the EM spectrum we can conclude Adam's do too.




Yup. What's even more confusing is, Impulse is the only one with any sort of offensive attack and he broke through Quasar's dome. How was that same dome able to hold off a group of heroes until Adam and Thanos busted through it?

We have on panel evidence of Thing, Thor, Impulse, Gladiator, etc.. breaking through his Quantum constructs vs one on panel scene of him holding off a group of heroes.

That's why I said that him holding off those heroes was PIS. Unless there's something later that backs this feat up that I'm not aware of?

Originally posted by zopzop
Wasn't Adam created by some guys (AIM or something I forgot the name), the same people that made Her (Kismet). Since Her's (Kismet) powers fall within the EM spectrum we can conclude Adam's do too.




Yup. What's even more confusing is, Impulse is the only one with any sort of offensive attack and he broke through Quasar's dome. How was that same dome able to hold off a group of heroes until Adam and Thanos busted through it?

We have on panel evidence of Thing, Thor, Impulse, Gladiator, etc.. breaking through his Quantum constructs vs one on panel scene of him holding off a group of heroes.

That's why I said that him holding off those heroes was PIS. Unless there's something later that backs this feat up that I'm not aware of?

they were created by the concleave. how that supports they were EM based I cannot understand.


His construct durability fluctuates. You mention thor gladiator and thing. I can mention Galactus, the whole bunch of the Infinity Gauntlet story, a thermo-nuclear blast, some quantums and the freeking nega-bomb that KOed all the avengers in Galactic Storm. And finally the latest feat in Thanos Imperative

I don't dismiss his low showing. Just pointing out it's wrong to dismiss his high ones also

Originally posted by Warlord
they were created by the concleave. how that supports they were EM based I cannot understand.

He's the Male version of Kismet. It was stated on panel that her powers are within the EM spectrum by Quasar. Look at the image I linked to in this thread. It stands to reason that his energies must be within the EM spectrum because a) That's all the Q-bands have control over and b) Kismet's are (she's the female version of Adam).




That's an embarrassing showing for Galactus. But what Infinity Gauntlet stuff? What are you talking about specifically? What nuke blast and what about the nega-bomb?

Originally posted by zopzop
He's the Male version of Kismet. It was stated on panel that her powers are within the EM spectrum by Quasar. Look at the image I linked to in this thread. It stands to reason that his energies must be within the EM spectrum because a) That's all the Q-bands have control over and b) Kismet's are (she's the female version of Adam).




That's an embarrassing showing for Galactus. But what Infinity Gauntlet stuff? What are you talking about specifically? What nuke blast and what about the nega-bomb?

heh I found an old file I got years back describing the "Quasar standard operating procedures" (lol) it does specify the EM spectrum to be the band's "forte". I'll leave it like this for the time being. I hope his new showings will change that.

well the G showing has happened whether we like it or not.
- Infinity Gauntlet: he creates a dome that stops Thor's hammer, Hulk, Herc and thing among others.
- Nega bomb: In galactic storm the nega bomb explodes KOing all the avengers but Quasar
- The thermonuclear incident was from an encounter with a watcher (can't remember issue - i could post the scan)

and there are the showings against the quantums (early years I think) and the recent ones. again, not meaning to say he is invulnerable. he's just better than you make him to seem

Quasar did, however, use the Q-Bands to absorb Ego's life force and essence.

wait another one.
He absorbed Presence's energies IIRC.
http://marvel.wikia.com/Presence

Nuclear energy

Originally posted by illadelph12 Quasar did, however, use the Q-Bands to absorb Ego's life force and essence.

Ego, the living planet? When did this happen?



Nuclear energy/radiation is within the EM spectrum I believe.

Originally posted by zopzop
Nuclear energy/radiation is within the EM spectrum I believe.

nuclear energy is energy released by splitting atoms. it fals in the weak/strong forces. It sure can be used to generate electricity but it does not originate in EM spectrum.
anyway I'm going for now.

cheers

Yes, Ego The Living Planet. The comic came out while I was in college, so it had to be from around 2000-2002. I believe it was the Maximum Security arc.

Nuclear energy is different than emotional spectrum, so unless Quasar has an example in manipulating THAT type of energy, it's all speculation.

Originally posted by Warlord
nuclear energy is energy released by splitting atoms. it fals in the weak/strong forces. It sure can be used to generate electricity but it does not originate in EM spectrum.
anyway I'm going for now.

cheers

No I'm pretty sure nuclear energy (aka the radiation given off by nuclear reactions) is within the EM spectrum :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizing_radiation

wiki wars...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_force

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Nuclear energy is different than emotional spectrum, so unless Quasar has an example in manipulating THAT type of energy, it's all speculation.

it would be speculation if the energies of a power ring have never been drained by energy manipulators.
which isn't the case.
not that I rate Avengers/JLA as cannon but it happened there too

And you can say Hal can resist his energies being absorbed. Which he and Kyle have done a few times.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
And you can say Hal can resist his energies being absorbed. Which he and Kyle have done a few times.

no doubt he can fight it.
the whole point is that I can see Wendel having this option and since he usually does drain wht he tries to drain I give the absorption/drain fight to him. I can see Hal fighting back though. For me, it is a very close fight. I give it to Wendel mainly do to the fact that he does not run out of energy

I don't think that will be a problem. Hal is more versatile and the fight won't last 24 hours.

it would be a problem if Quasar manages to drain him.

On the other hand, it doesn't have to last 24 hours. Hal would gradually deplete his energy deposits unlike quasar. and I don't see Hal ending it soon. Quasar's fights with surfer, phoenix, a watcher etc testify it would be a long one

If, but like I said, Hal can resist. Most of the people that have affected Hal, are ones that are master energy manipulators like dr. Light. It could go either way, but I give Hal the small majority, because of versatility.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
If, but like I said, Hal can resist. Most of the people that have affected Hal, are ones that are master energy manipulators like dr. Light. It could go either way, but I give Hal the small majority, because of versatility.

and u don't consider Q a master energy manipulator?

anyway it's because of Hal's versatility I say it's close too, but I give Q the small majority.

agree to disagree I guess

He is, but we as readers have no clue if he can absorb it or not. Just because someone else absorbed it (with trouble), doesn't mean Quasar can. Unless you have an example of him absorbing something similar. It's basically whoever you like more. I like Hal a little more, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he can resist Quasar's energy drain.

BTW, do you think Quasar can absorb other Lantern corps? Like the Rage/Red Lantern's, Hope, Passion, etc...?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
He is, but we as readers have no clue if he can absorb it or not. Just because someone else absorbed it (with trouble), doesn't mean Quasar can. Unless you have an example of him absorbing something similar. It's basically whoever you like more. I like Hal a little more, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he can resist Quasar's energy drain.

BTW, do you think Quasar can absorb other Lantern corps? Like the Rage/Red Lantern's, Hope, Passion, etc...?

I see the Lantern power somewhat retconed since the new colors addition. I say Q can do it since his scope of power equals or surpasses Dr Light's. On a side note amazo had done the same (drained, not copied). however I wouldn't be surprised if now an energy manipulator could not deal with the lantern's energies. They were plasma based constructs IIRC initially but now i'm not too sure. anyway it is a matter of preference as you said. Hal's my third favorite DC character but Qusasar is my second favorite cosmic Marvel hero. lol

Dr. Light hasn't manipulated the other corps and she/he has failed to absorb Hal before. Besides, the male version of Dr. Light can manipulate pretty much all energy it seems, even magic.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Dr. Light hasn't manipulated the other corps and she/he has failed to absorb Hal before. Besides, the male version of Dr. Light can manipulate pretty much all energy it seems, even magic.

the male version manipulates the light of every energy source including magic. blame DC physics.
anyway. I don't know about the other corps. GL rings have be drained in the past I say it could be done again. that's all

if the general knowledge of each opponent is in effect which should include known weaknesses, then Quase and NP might take out MM early with some extreme heat/fire attack no?

Originally posted by Warlord
I see the Lantern power somewhat retconed since the new colors addition. I say Q can do it since his scope of power equals or surpasses Dr Light's.

Not in terms of the wide variety of energy he can manipulate, no.

In terms of the level of his powers, sure.




Again, Amazo has absorbed magical energies and life force energies and chronal energies and reality-altering energies. There is nothing Amazo cannot copy or absorb.




It was always Oan energy, but it's been thought to be psionic for a long long time, ever since it was described as an extention of the Guardians' own psionic abilities. It can be described as a generic 'cosmic power', and it's definitely not consistent, but I'd say it's probably a more esoteric power source than just normal EM/stellar energy at this point, and I think that only makes sense, given the way that the ENERGY ITSELF, not just the ring, responds to will power cues.

The basis of Quasar's and Light's powers is not that different. Light was able to manipulate other kinds of energy by manipulating the light aspect of them. Crazy DC physics I guess.

I'm pretty sure it is willpower fueled plasma based constructs in the past.
Again though, since the introduction of the other emotional spectrum rings this could have changed. There is no specific reference though. I wish a writer describes the nature of the rings energies explicitly.

Originally posted by Warlord
The basis of Quasar's and Light's powers is not that different. Light was able to manipulate other kinds of energy by manipulating the light aspect of them. Crazy DC physics I guess.

Obviousy they are different, since Dr. Light is capable of doing something that Quasar is not. That's the only germane point here.



Under some writers, definitely. But a normal plasma is not affected by force of will. And I've already addressed that it's long been an extention of the Guardians' psionic abilities, as well.




Why? What would that add?

Frankly, they've been doing too much explaining away the majesty of the GLC as is.

He's doing more than Quasar has done by just manipulating light.
Explicitly stated by him. If light manipulation allows you to control every energy in DCU then fine. It's not a character trait.

Plasma is not affected by force of will. In GL comics it is just powered by it.

Originally posted by Warlord
wiki wars...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_force

Unless I'm missing something strong/weak interaction result in nuclear radiation (ionized radiation). Ionized (nuclear) radiation is WITHIN the EM spectrum NOT the forces resulting in it : Strong/Weak Force. That's why there are four forces : gravity, strong, weak and electromagnetic force.

Quasar, as stated on panel by Quasar himself, has no control over energy outside the EM spectrum.

Originally posted by Warlord
He's doing more than Quasar has done by just manipulating light.
Explicitly stated by him. If light manipulation allows you to control every energy in DCU then fine. It's not a character trait.

"Not a character trait"? What?

Dr. Light has demonstrated the ability to control things that lie outside the electromagnetic spectrum. That immediately means that he can control more types of energy than can Quasar. If you're trying to argue that the meaning of the electromagnetic spectrum changes between universes --- absurd, since they are using a real world concept.

Unless you've got examples of Dr. Light specifically saying he can only control energies within the electromagnetic spectrum while he simultaneously controls GL energies. Because earlier in his career he COULDN'T control GL energies, despite desperately trying to/wanting to.



Are you not understanding what I'm saying, or being purposefully obtuse here?

Originally posted by Desaad
"Not a character trait"? What?

Dr. Light has demonstrated the ability to control things that lie outside the electromagnetic spectrum. That immediately means that he can control more types of energy than can Quasar. If you're trying to argue that the meaning of the electromagnetic spectrum changes between universes --- absurd, since they are using a real world concept.

Unless you've got examples of Dr. Light specifically saying he can only control energies within the electromagnetic spectrum while he simultaneously controls GL energies. Because earlier in his career he COULDN'T control GL energies, despite desperately trying to/wanting to.



Are you not understanding what I'm saying, or being purposefully obtuse here?

Dr Light has SPECIFICALLY stated that controls THE LIGHT aspect of other energies. ON PANEL, STATED how else can I make it clear to you. The light aspect. If by controlling the LIGHT he can control other types of energies too then other light manipulators can do it too. Simple as that.

We are not disagreeing in the GL energy definition. Both we are saying it varies by the writer

Originally posted by Warlord
Dr Light has SPECIFICALLY stated that controls THE LIGHT aspect of other energies. ON PANEL, STATED how else can I make it clear to you. The light aspect. If by controlling the LIGHT he can control other types of energies too then other light manipulators can do it too. Simple as that.

We are not disagreeing in the GL energy definition. Both we are saying it varies by the writer So basically he controls mid frequency photons?

yes light particles. unless retconed an I don't know it

The last time Light controlled GL energy was before the Johns retcon, iirc. Could be wrong, though.

Originally posted by Warlord
yes light particles. unless retconed an I don't know it Well if that's the case, and indeed it hasn't been retconned, then that's game, set, match. If Dr. Light controls photons and can effect a GL energy ring, Quasar should be able to do the same since photons are basic units within the EM spectrum. So draining the ring is possible, or at the very least, manipulating its energy is.

Hell Nova could probably do it as well since he can absorb/manipulate photons.

Pretty much.

Ok then I'm almost comfortable saying team 2 wins something like 6/10. The only hang up I have is I don't know exactly how fire affect MM. Is it heat in general I.e. Superman heat vision or does it specifically have to be flames/fire?

Originally posted by dmills
Ok then I'm almost comfortable saying team 2 wins something like 6/10. The only hang up I have is I don't know exactly how fire affect MM. Is it heat in general I.e. Superman heat vision or does it specifically have to be flames/fire?

it's inconsistent. last i heard, it was flames of intent or passion that could only hurt him. he could stroll through napalm for example, but an pyrokinetic's fire could hurt him.

Yeah.. I remember a napalm weapon used on him

Originally posted by dmills
Well if that's the case, and indeed it hasn't been retconned, then that's game, set, match. If Dr. Light controls photons and can effect a GL energy ring, Quasar should be able to do the same since photons are basic units within the EM spectrum. So draining the ring is possible, or at the very least, manipulating its energy is.

Hell Nova could probably do it as well since he can absorb/manipulate photons.

Haha, 'it's game set match' because you desperately need it to be.

Dr. Light's abilities allow him to control energies outside of the electromagnetic spectrum. The fact that he has, in the past, controlled Green Lantern energy is in no way evidence that Quasar could do the same. The fact that he has, in the past, been UNABLE to control Green Lantern energies as well, despite having a DEMONSTRABLY wider and more expansive control of energy types than does Quasar, is likewise not indicative of Quasar's ability to control GL energy.

With that in mind, Quasar's main trick, and only hope, is very likely to be ineffective. Maybe not, maybe so, depends on the writer...but generally speaking, no.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's inconsistent. last i heard, it was flames of intent or passion that could only hurt him. he could stroll through napalm for example, but an pyrokinetic's fire could hurt him.

That was only ever true for, like, an issue of Joe Kelly's JLA run.

Immediately forgotten about and ignored. He's just got his normal fire weakness.

Originally posted by Desaad
Haha, 'it's game set match' because you desperately need it to be.

Dr. Light's abilities allow him to control energies outside of the electromagnetic spectrum. The fact that he has, in the past, controlled Green Lantern energy is in no way evidence that Quasar could do the same. The fact that he has, in the past, been UNABLE to control Green Lantern energies as well, despite having a DEMONSTRABLY wider and more expansive control of energy types than does Quasar, is likewise not indicative of Quasar's ability to control GL energy.

With that in mind, Quasar's main trick, and only hope, is very likely to be ineffective. Maybe not, maybe so, depends on the writer...but generally speaking, no. Let me set you straight about something, I don't "desperately need it" to be anything. Relax, its a forum debate about fictional characters.

Now regarding your larger point. I made the point about photons since it was mentioned that Dr. Light controlled the 'light aspect' of seemingly exotic energies so yes, Quasar could mimic that feat. And since you've offered absolutely nothing but bold proclamations to refute that point, it still stands. Offer something in the way of real proof, I.e. scans, and maybe you'll begin to make a good point. But as it stands now you've added nothing more then mere conjecture to the issue.

P.S. No disrespect to you Desaad. You're a damn good poster, but you annoyed the hell out of me with that desperation comment.

Originally posted by dmills
Let me set you straight about something, I don't "desperately need it" to be anything. Relax, its a forum debate about fictional characters.

Now regarding your larger point. I made the point about photons since it was mentioned that Dr. Light controlled the 'light aspect' of seemingly exotic energies so yes, Quasar could mimic that feat. And since you've offered absolutely nothing but bold proclamations to refute that point, it still stands. Offer something in the way of real proof, I.e. scans, and maybe you'll begin to make a good point. But as it stands now you've added nothing more then mere conjecture to the issue.

P.S. No disrespect to you Desaad. You're a damn good poster, but you annoyed the hell out of me with that desperation comment.

he's been saying that a lot lately.


wait.. aint that a sign of desperation?
nahh.. j/k

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
he's been saying that a lot lately.


wait.. aint that a sign of desperation?
nahh.. j/k

He's prolly annoyed that we dont/won't drink the Koolaid unless we know what's in it. And we all know what happened to the ones that refused it. (Do any of you young fellas even know about Jones town or am I showing my age here lol!)

But seriously, Desaad is a good poster and is usually very respectful.

Desaad is one of the most knowledgeable posters I have seen for quite some time. Knows his Marvel and DC. With a sprinkle of Wildstorm.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Desaad is one of the most knowledgeable posters I have seen for quite some time. Knows his Marvel and DC. With a sprinkle of Wildstorm. Of that I have no doubt, but he is still subject to the same forum etiquette as we all are. All I'm asking for is either issue numbers and/or scans, to back up his proclamations. That's all. It doesn't make him a bad guy or anything. It's up to him how he decides to play it.

Originally posted by dmills
Let me set you straight about something, I don't "desperately need it" to be anything. Relax, its a forum debate about fictional characters.

I'm perfectly relaxed. But your actions -- the way you immediately jump on anything that supports the characters that make up your sig and avatar, make it obvious that you're not willing to listen to reason, and that you're coming in here with a closed mind.



Why is it that all I have is bold proclamation and need specific issue numbers -- to follow the etiquiette -- when the person you continually support and take at face value has done nothing of the kind? All anyone in this thread has done has said "Well, his name is light, that's how DC physics works, it doesn't apply to Marvel physics, etc!".

The basis of my claim is seen throughout their character histories -- we KNOW that Quasar is limited by the electromagnetic spectrum. That much is clear.

We DON'T know if the Green Lantern energy is rooted in the electromagnetic spectrum. There is some evidence that supports the idea, but far more that refutes it.

The only counter-evidence being used here is that Dr. Light, a being who controls magical god lightning (outside of the electromagnetic spectrum) just as easily as sunlight, was once able to control Kyle's constructs. But, of course, he was also UNABLE to control or absorb Hal's energy on one occasion, in v3.

The majority of evidence points towards one way, but the smallest sliver of doubt or ambiguity in the subject gets the response, from you, of " game set match".

Surely you see how poorly supported the conclusion you (guys) are drawing is? Surely you must realize that you're seeing what you want to see?



No disrespect taken. I'm far from unbiased as well -- I created a Hal respect thread.

But in this case, while I'll admit that there IS some small amount of ambiguity, I think the majority of the evidence points to Quasar being unable to directly manipulate GL energies, and I think your proclivity to believe the 'other side' of this debate stems more from your enjoyment of that group of cosmic characters than from an honest estimation of the facts being brought to the table.

Originally posted by Desaad
The basis of my claim is seen throughout their character histories -- we KNOW that Quasar is limited by the electromagnetic spectrum. That much is clear.

For those who missed it :
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4351/quasar03416.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Q-bands have NO control over non EM energies.

Originally posted by Desaad
I'm perfectly relaxed. But your actions -- the way you immediately jump on anything that supports the characters that make up your sig and avatar, make it obvious that you're not willing to listen to reason, and that you're coming in here with a closed mind.



See the Caveat?





Again see the above caveat. But point taken nonetheless.



Not just me. Iirc there are at least 3 others that shared that opinion and 1 that was open to the idea. So far you're the only one arguing against it. Or at least the most the most vigorous.

And again, the argument was that Dr. Light controls the "Light aspect" of the energies, not nessecarily the energies themselves per se. So if that's the case, then it doesn't matter if it's a magical lightning bolt, or any other energy for that matter, if it gives off light then he can manipulate it. And since light (photons) is apart of the EM spectrum, and Dr. Light supposedly in the past has manipulated GL energy, then it's at least fair to conclude Quasar has a reasonable chance of replicating that feat. Frankly I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. Obviously there's some ambiguity there, but I just don't see this "majority of evidence" that you speak of. You're the GL expert so surely you can provide it no?



Hey I'm open to change. But I'm a gen X'er and you know how notoriously hard headed we are. The generation of "You have to show me better then you can tell me" lol.

Originally posted by Desaad
That was only ever true for, like, an issue of Joe Kelly's JLA run.

Immediately forgotten about and ignored. He's just got his normal fire weakness.

i was talking about his mini too.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i was talking about his mini too.

He's been affected by fire in his mini, and in Brightest Day, and not just 'passionate' fire.

Originally posted by dmills
if that's the case, and indeed it hasn't been retconned, then that's game, set, match. If Dr. Light controls photons and can effect a GL energy ring, Quasar should be able to do the same since photons are basic units within the EM spectrum. So draining the ring is possible, or at the very least, manipulating its energy is.

See the Caveat?

But that wasn't the case, and nothing was ever retconned, and no evidence was ever provided to indicate that it was.







Three others? I see one other, all with nova or quasar in their sigs and/or Avatar. And there is someone else who seems to be backing me up at every turn, and another who is randomly vouching for me.

None of that matters, though, because right is right regardless of public perception.



I understand the argument, but the argument is MOOT. Dr. Light was INCAPABLE of controling the Green Lantern energies until AFTER he had become trapped in Hal's battery for comic book months/years, and his ability to control energy has already proven itself to be greater than that of Quasar in breadth.

Dr. Light once being able to control Kyle's energy (and I stress once, in GL 3D, because he was INCAPABLE of doing so without the aid of the Worlogog when they later met) means nothing in regards to Quasar's ability to control that same energy. We've seen him unable to control psionic energies, which give off light components, and Dark Matter energies, which cast a glow, and other-dimensional energies, which have a light component, and magical energies, which have a light component.

Originally posted by zopzop
For those who missed it :
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4351/quasar03416.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Q-bands have NO control over non EM energies. Dead issue bro. That's already been clearly established.

On another note, check your PM box when you get a chance bro. Thanks.

Originally posted by Desaad


But that wasn't the case, and nothing was ever retconned, and no evidence was ever provided to indicate that it was.







Three others? I see one other, all with nova or quasar in their sigs and/or Avatar. And there is someone else who seems to be backing me up at every turn, and another who is randomly vouching for me.

None of that matters, though, because right is right regardless of public perception.



I understand the argument, but the argument is MOOT. Dr. Light was INCAPABLE of controling the Green Lantern energies until AFTER he had become trapped in Hal's battery for comic book months/years, and his ability to control energy has already proven itself to be greater than that of Quasar in breadth.

Dr. Light once being able to control Kyle's energy (and I stress once, in GL 3D, because he was INCAPABLE of doing so without the aid of the Worlogog when they later met) means nothing in regards to Quasar's ability to control that same energy. We've seen him unable to control psionic energies, which give off light components, and Dark Matter energies, which cast a glow, and other-dimensional energies, which have a light component, and magical energies, which have a light component. Well if all that's true then that puts a serious wet blanket on that argument. Thanks for providing some context.

Edit: Did you get a chance to read that pm I sent to you?

btw this is a GL/MM vs. Q/NP thread. not a 1v1 so there are a lot of other factors involved.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
btw this is a GL/MM vs. Q/NP thread. not a 1v1 so there are a lot of other factors involved. HAHAHA! Yeah that did kinda get lost in the shuffle huh?

Oh and BTW, apparently you and I can't have an unbiased opinion since we both have NP sigs and avatars! How cool is that!!!!

Originally posted by dmills
HAHAHA! Yeah that did kinda get lost in the shuffle huh?

Oh and BTW, apparently you and I can't have an unbiased opinion since we both have NP sigs and avatars! How cool is that!!!!


i guess anyone with a name/sig/avatar based on characters cant have an unbiased opinion eh?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
i guess anyone with a name/sig/avatar based on characters cant have an unbiased opinion eh?

In a comic book forum? Nah!!

At any rate I'm done with this thread as I have nothing more really to offer. Good luck.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
i guess anyone with a name/sig/avatar based on characters cant have an unbiased opinion eh?

Yup im the only exception

Since I have a Sho Nuff sig my views can be trusted unless we are discussing who's the baddest mofo, low down, around this town.