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This fight takes place in a boxing ring. (UFC rules in effect)

Steve ftw

Steve does have better stats, but it's a good fight.

Steve 7-8/10

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Steve 7-8/10

Well that's a bit too much there. If Steve's going to take the majority it shouldn't be no more than 6/10. I know it's your opinion and I respect that. As Q99 pointed out, Steve dose have an advantage physically but slight. As in fighting skill. Steve is up against another highly trained and experienced martial arts master. Steve won't take Bronze Tiger easy at all. And Bronze Tiger could be the one who takes the majority here as well.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Well that's a bit too much there. If Steve's going to take the majority it shouldn't be no more than 6/10. I know it's your opinion and I respect that. As Q99 pointed out, Steve dose have an advantage physically but slight. As in fighting skill. Steve is up against another highly trained and experienced martial arts master. Steve won't take Bronze Tiger easy at all. And Bronze Tiger could be the who takes the majority here as well.

I don't know Caps stamina is an issue, even if BT can match him via skill hes going to get tired eventually.

Originally posted by Deadline
I don't know Caps stamina is an issue, even if BT can match him via skill hes going to get tired eventually.

Very true indeed. But let's not count Ben out just yet. Try to consider the fact that he has and can hold his own with an opponent with higher stats physically. I also notice that during Batman's second fight with Bronze Tiger, Bruce was feeling the pressure. Even with prep going into the fight he could only stalemate Bronze Tiger. Batman pointed out that he hopes that he could at least slow Bronze Tiger down. Bronze Tiger is very fast and agile enough to keep Steve on his toes.

Cap has the Daft Punk Advantage ; Harder, better , Faster, Stronger Cap can hang with Danny 'the Chi-Bomb' Rand sans IF Strike. Steves ability to operate at top efficiency indeffinetley (as far as BT is concerned) is the reason he wins.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Very true indeed. But let's not count Ben out just yet. Try to consider the fact that he has and can hold his own with an opponent with higher stats physically. I also notice that during Batman second fight with Bronze Tiger, Bruce was feeling the pressure. Even with prep going into the fight he could only stalemate Bronze Tiger. He pointed out that he hopes he could at least slow Bronze Tiger down. Bronze Tiger is very fast and agile enough to keep Steve on his toes.

Yea but Cap is better than Bats (I should say imo but I think I can prove it).

Not counting the Tiger out but Steve takes it regardless if its 6/10 or 7-8/10.

Stats are in the lead, brain enhancement plus hand to hand Steve is better in the the tactical sense of fighting and his enhanced sight, coordination, reflexes, total speed, stamina, durability equals a hospital night for Tiger and a very weary night for Steve(I'll give Ben his props)

Steve Rogers.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Cap has the Daft Punk Advantage ; Harder, better , Faster, Stronger Cap can hang with Danny 'the Chi-Bomb' Rand sans IF Strike. Steves ability to operate at top efficiency indeffinetley (as far as BT is concerned) is the reason he wins.

It's your and only your opinion that Steve is better. Better how? Please tell me, because one isn't simply better 'cause you say so. Steve is stronger, and has better endurance. Bronze Tiger has cat-like speed and agility. He's even shown to be able to keep up with Slade. Even if Steve is indeed faster. It will not be by far. And Bronze Tiger may be the better fighter. In JLA #18 Vixen took Bronze Tiger's strength, then proceeded to hit Ben with enough force to knock him into a wall. And Ben damn near went through it. Bronze Tiger asked Vixen if she use the power of some animal. But to herself she explains that it was Ben's strength she used to hit him with.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yea but Cap is better than Bats (I should say imo but I think I can prove it).

Steve has some physical advantages. But it doesn't make him better than Bruce. Please don't go there. Because those two can beat each other.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Not counting the Tiger out but Steve takes it regardless if its 6/10 or 7-8/10.

Stats are in the lead, brain enhancement plus hand to hand Steve is better in the the tactical sense of fighting and his enhanced sight, coordination, reflexes, total speed, stamina, durability equals a hospital night for Tiger and a very weary night for Steve(I'll give Ben his props)

If that's all a character needs is stats. Steve, Bruce, Lady Shiva, and many others wouldn't do half the things they do against stronger and faster, and more durable opponents. Slade had better stats. Better then Steve's imo and Bronze Tiger was able to hold his own. Bronze Tiger almost had Slade captured on his own. That's just one man. Aqua Man, Hal Jordan and Wally West couldn't even do that with all their abilities together. So stats are not always everything when you're dealing with highly skilled martial arts masters.

Bronze Tiger is a master martial artist. His tactical sense of fighting, coordination, and reflexes are on par with Steve. How many people you know, took down Batman with just one move??? Nobody.... Not even Steve, when he and Bruce tested their abilities. They matched move for move, block for block, counter for counter. Bruce didn't even see that kick from Bronze Tiger coming. And then Batman prepared to fight Ben after and still couldn't beat him. Do you know how much Bruce can do with prep time?? That said a lot when he only stalemated Bronze Tiger. That meant that Ben was noting to #@*% with prep time or not.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
It's your and only your opinion that Steve is better. Better how? Please tell me, because one isn't simply better 'cause you say so. Steve is stronger, and has better endurance. Bronze Tiger has cat-like speed and agility. He's even shown to be able to keep up with Slade. Even if Steve is indeed faster. It will not be by far. And Bronze Tiger may be the better fighter. In JLA #18 Vixen took Bronze Tiger's strength, then proceeded to hit Ben with enough force to knock him into a wall. And Ben damn near went through it. Bronze Tiger asked Vixen if she use the power of some animal. But to herself she explains that it was Ben's strength she used to hit him with.

Yea its my opinion but I've got more proof to justify my case. I know at least two writers that stated that Cap was better, and theres the fact that Cap regularly fights better opponent.s


Originally posted by Marvelknight

Steve has some physical advantages. But it doesn't make him better than Bruce. Please don't go there. Because those two can beat each other.

Hell yea I'll go there, I got stuff to back it up.


Originally posted by Marvelknight

If that's all a character needs is stats. Steve, Bruce, Lady Shiva, and many others wouldn't do half the things they do against stronger and faster, and more durable opponents. Slade had better stats. Better then Steve's imo and Bronze Tiger was able to hold his own. Bronze Tiger almost had Slade captured on his own. That's just one man. Aqua Man, Hal Jordan and Wally West couldn't even do that with all their abilities together. So stats are not always everything when you're dealing with highly skilled martial arts masters.

Its not just stats even without the SSS Cap is highly skilled.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yea its my opinion but I've got more proof to justify my case. I know at least two writers that stated that Cap was better, and theres the fact that Cap regularly fights better opponent.s




Hell yea I'll go there, I got stuff to back it up.




Its not just stats even without the SSS Cap is highly skilled.

Writers also do things with an character that completely contradict years of establishment. What has been shown is that Steve could beat Batman but it would take a very long time to do it. But that statement doesn't mean that Batman couldn't beat Steve. You're underestimating Batman's own will and fighting prowess.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yea its my opinion but I've got more proof to justify my case. I know at least two writers that stated that Cap was better, and theres the fact that Cap regularly fights better opponent.s




Hell yea I'll go there, I got stuff to back it up.




Its not just stats even without the SSS Cap is highly skilled.

Are you assuming that Batman doesn't have years of feats that show that Bruce isn't far behind Steve in physicality? Batman's definitely more intelligent and a far Better tactician imo with good reason (I don't see Steve coming back from the omega Sanction using the same level of wit).

Originally posted by Deadline
Yea its my opinion but I've got more proof to justify my case. I know at least two writers that stated that Cap was better, and theres the fact that Cap regularly fights better opponent.s




Hell yea I'll go there, I got stuff to back it up.




Its not just stats even without the SSS Cap is highly skilled.

So is Bruce and I'd even say he's more skilled than Steve in martial arts and all around.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Are you assuming that Batman doesn't have years of feats that show that Bruce isn't far behind Steve in physicality? Batman's definitely more intelligent and a far Better tactician imo with good reason (I don't see Steve coming back from the omega Sanction using the same level of wit).

the SSS guarantees that Bruce can't hit Steve's physical levels. In theory he's "peak human", but in practice Steve has taken a bullet to the head point blank and come back from clinical death in minutes, threw a shield hard enough to overtake a rocket, run 60mph while carrying someone else, leapt 2 stories vertically unassisted...the list of crap like this is endless, but the point is the same- it simply isn't possible to hit the level rogers is at with training alone. And as someone else pointed out, Rogers' body doesn't generate fatigue poisons, so his stamina advantage is massive.

As for tactics, the man has been the leader of the avengers for what..a billion years now? come on. Everyone and their grandma defers to steve on the battlefield.



dead wrong. Rogers is a master of every known style in the MU, and has beaten or stalemated even those with "unique" styles. Taskmaster (who also explicitly knows EVERY style there is) makes a point of training people in Steve's style, since it's so effective. You might be able to make a claim that they're even, but claiming bruce is "more skilled" is impossible.

Same as the Captain America vs DD fight, only the odds are even more in Steve's favour since Ben lacks DD's superhuman abilities.

Steve is better - if only slightly - in every conceivable way. Initially it will be an interesting and more or less even fight (but still leaning in Cap's favour)... but after that every swing, every blow, every moment will begin to slow and tire Ben, while Cap will remain 100%. Bronze Tiger cannot beat Captain America in a fight. He can put up a fight for the first 3-5 minutes, but Captain America's superior stats coupled with his nearly infinite stamina make him too much to handle for any street level human to legitimately take in h2h without powers or prep.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
the SSS guarantees that Bruce can't hit Steve's physical levels. In theory he's "peak human", but in practice Steve has taken a bullet to the head point blank and come back from clinical death in minutes, threw a shield hard enough to overtake a rocket, run 60mph while carrying someone else, leapt 2 stories vertically unassisted...the list of crap like this is endless, but the point is the same- it simply isn't possible to hit the level rogers is at with training alone. And as someone else pointed out, Rogers' body doesn't generate fatigue poisons, so his stamina advantage is massive.

As for tactics, the man has been the leader of the avengers for what..a billion years now? come on. Everyone and their grandma defers to steve on the battlefield.



dead wrong. Rogers is a master of every known style in the MU, and has beaten or stalemated even those with "unique" styles. Taskmaster (who also explicitly knows EVERY style there is) makes a point of training people in Steve's style, since it's so effective. You might be able to make a claim that they're even, but claiming bruce is "more skilled" is impossible.

Yes Space M ummy, that is true. Bruce wouldn't be able to achieve some of Steve's feats. But you forget that Steve is a compliment to Bruce and everything Bruce has achieve. Considering that Bruce had to work very hard everyday to be at the level that he is today.

I love Steve Rogers. He's an excellent character. He has an iron will, superb fighting skills and a sound tactical mind. Nothing can be taken away from him, not at all. But it's not really so much that he relies on his endurance to win battles. The man has an weapon, made of metals that is stronger, harder, and more durable than Wolverine's entire body. Steve can Block and reflect. Use the shield to attack up close or from a far with surgical precision... But Steve doesn't have his shield in this fight.

Batman has been shown lifting 1000 lbs. and can hold up weights a little over 1000 lbs.under duress. He's dented steel doors, bend steel, split trees at the base with back kicks, and catch arrows in mid flight without looking. Bruce can control his breathing to reduce panic, and hit with enough force to send a 240 lbs. grown man through a wall. Even though Batman doesn't jump as high, he's still leaps with such grace, surpassing even the fineness Chinese acrobats. And can run at least 30 mph.The man is at the peak physically as any human male could be naturally in every way. You say " his stamina advantage is massive". Yes, but it will still take Steve a long time to beat Bruce.

And no, in fact I think I'm right about Batman being the better martial artist. Steve does not know every martial arts style on earth. Batman Knows and utilizes 127 martial arts styles. He's master offensive and defensive techniques, along with advance forms of mediation and pressure point strikes. Batman is an master martial artist. Every punch and kick is thrown with precision and accuracy, with superb technique and power. It' a known fact that Batman is all around more skilled than Steve. Batman can come up with more ways to overcome any situation than Steve can. Bruce has proven this. He's efficient in biology, chemistry, forensic science, and criminology. Batman's an inventor, Master detective, Ninja master, master escape artist, vehicles expert, master tactician, and the list gos on and on. You are really underestimating Batman here.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Same as the Captain America vs DD fight, only the odds are even more in Steve's favour since Ben lacks DD's superhuman abilities.

Steve is better - if only slightly - in every conceivable way. Initially it will be an interesting and more or less even fight (but still leaning in Cap's favour)... but after that every swing, every blow, every moment will begin to slow and tire Ben, while Cap will remain 100%. Bronze Tiger cannot beat Captain America in a fight. He can put up a fight for the first 3-5 minutes, but Captain America's superior stats coupled with his nearly infinite stamina make him too much to handle for any street level human to legitimately take in h2h without powers or prep.

Batman can operate at peak efficiency for at least an hour before showing any signs of fatigue. Even while enduring extreme pain, Batman can still function. Anyone thinking that Steve will just beat Batman with ease is out of their minds, in complete denial.

The fact is that Bronze Tiger gives Steve a much harder fight than what is being said. It really could go either way.

I agree with the majority Steve takes Tiger or Bruce.

And Slade takes Tiger or Bruce as well.(As its been pointed out Slade was not in peak form against Tiger.)

There enhanced and there skill is close to there's.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He can put up a fight for the first 3-5 minutes,

Damn son lowballing. Thats some cold shit, 3-5mins? Please sir can I have some more?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Same as the Captain America vs DD fight, only the odds are even more in Steve's favour since Ben lacks DD's superhuman abilities.

Steve is better - if only slightly - in every conceivable way. Initially it will be an interesting and more or less even fight (but still leaning in Cap's favour)... but after that every swing, every blow, every moment will begin to slow and tire Ben, while Cap will remain 100%. Bronze Tiger cannot beat Captain America in a fight. He can put up a fight for the first 3-5 minutes, but Captain America's superior stats coupled with his nearly infinite stamina make him too much to handle for any street level human to legitimately take in h2h without powers or prep.

I'm assuming you don't know who Slade is and what he has in physicality. Ben has taken blows from Slade (who I feel is physically superior to Steve imo). Bronze Tiger along with the Suicide Squad has took on the Female Furies as well. Bronze Tiger even has Batman in martial arts mastery. And Ben is near Bruce in physicality and in some aspects better. As I stated before, Steve can not beat Bronze Tiger with ease. Steve may have better endurance. But even he can buckle with enough well placed and precise blows from Bronze Tiger.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I agree with the majority Steve takes Tiger or Bruce.

And Slade takes Tiger or Bruce as well.(As its been pointed out Slade was not in peak form against Tiger.)

There enhanced and there skill is close to there's.

You're wrong. Slade was 100% when he fought Bronze Tiger. I have the issue on hand. And Slade didn't just beat Ben. Ben landed some hard blows on Slade using speed and agility to counter attack, when Slade tried to throw Ben into a wall. Slade got in some shots after. But It didn't put Bronze Tiger down. Ben had Slade pined to the ground in their fight. Slade only got up 'cause Bronze Tiger was distracted. So don't tell me what I know to be fact.

good match up.. neither is no slouch.. Bronze Tiger can certainly last against Steve.... methinks Tiger 5.5/10

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
good match up.. neither is no slouch.. Bronze Tiger can certainly last against Steve.... methinks Tiger 5.5/10

Thanks man, I thinks it's a good match up as well. I agree that neither man here is a slouch. And it is not a one sided fight.

I can truly appreciate everyone's opinion and the love of an character. Because I love this outlet that KMC has where people can get together and debate over comic book characters. But some ride Steve a little too hard at times. I love Steve Rogers too. But he's not unbeatable the way some people make it seem. One would think that Batman, Daredevil, Bronze Tiger, and many others have no chance at all. And in fact that's far from the truth.

Bronze Tiger is the MAN! However, I think Steve will take the small majority. Bronze isn't enhanced, is he?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Bronze Tiger is the MAN! However, I think Steve will take the small majority. Bronze isn't enhanced, is he?

No he's not. But he's in the peak human category. Bronze Tiger is a superb martial arts master, with extensive training in martial arts. It has been stated that Ben moves with the speed and agility of an jungle cat. And Bronze Tiger had a prolonged fight with Deathstroke (even gaining the upper hand against Slade). His endurance and fighting prowess is efficient enough to hang with enhance beings the likes of Slade and Steve.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Thanks man, I thinks it's a good match up as well. I agree that neither man here is a slouch. And it is not a one sided fight.

I can truly appreciate everyone's opinion and the love of an character. Because I love this outlet that KMC has where people can get together and debate over comic book characters. But some ride Steve a little too hard at times. I love Steve Rogers too. But he's not unbeatable the way some people make it seem. One would think that Batman, Daredevil, Bronze Tiger, and many others have no chance at all. And in fact that's far from the truth.

you're welcome.. i have all appearances of both Steve and Bronze Tiger.. I do wish DC would have him fight Bruce again

Originally posted by Marvelknight
No he's not. But he's in the peak human category. Bronze Tiger is a superb martial arts master, with extensive training in martial arts. It has been stated that Ben moves with the speed and agility of an jungle cat. And Bronze Tiger had a prolonged fight with Deathstroke (even gaining the upper hand against Slade). His endurance and fighting prowess is efficient enough to hang with enhance beings the likes of Slade of Steve.

Don't forget Catseye, who has enhanced stats and is a skilled MA.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
you're welcome.. i have all appearances of both Steve and Bronze Tiger.. I do wish DC would have him fight Bruce again

So would I. Bruce will give Ben a better fight now imo.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Don't forget Catseye, who has enhanced stats and is a skilled MA.

I'm not familiar with Catseye. Is the character from DC or Marvel?

http://www.comicvine.com/catseye/29-28178/

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/15776/1322411-catseye9_large.jpg

Originally posted by Deadline
Damn son lowballing. Thats some cold shit, 3-5mins? Please sir can I have some more?

3-5 minutes of the fight being even, not a 3-5 minute fight. After 3-5 minutes Caps edge just grows incrementally larger until he wins. Remeber these fighters don't circle each other and throw outside jabs while looking for a take down, no, they go full bore slugfest non stop. Unless Cap allows Ben to set the pace of the fight, Ben won't be able to keep up with the pace Cap will set for more than 3-5 minutes before his reactions start to slow down.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
I'm assuming you don't know who Slade is and what he has in physicality. Ben has taken blows from Slade (who I feel is physically superior to Steve imo). Bronze Tiger along with the Suicide Squad has took on the Female Furies as well. Bronze Tiger even has Batman in martial arts mastery. And Ben is near Bruce in physicality and in some aspects better. As I stated before, Steve can not beat Bronze Tiger with ease. Steve may have better endurance. But even he can buckle with enough well placed and precise blows from Bronze Tiger.

Slade is a super soldier with mild superhuman strength who has had his ass railed by Nightwing three times. Batman or Bronze Tiger CAN NOT beat Captain America in a melee fight, epically in the octagon with UFC rules in place.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Slade is a super soldier with mild superhuman strength who has had his ass railed by Nightwing three times. Batman or Bronze Tiger CAN NOT beat Captain America in a melee fight, epically in the octagon with UFC rules in place.

Slade "had his ass railed by Nightwing three times".

You need to go back and take another look because Nightwing never did any more than get off a few attacks then made an escape. I have most of Nightwing's encounters with Slade. Even Dick said Slade could kill him without breaking a sweat.

And you're wrong. Bronze Tiger can beat Steve. All you are doing is underestimating one character in favor for another without probable cause. You tell me when has Bronze Tiger done so bad that he would have no chance against Steve and maybe you'll have and argument here. If this is how you debate, you would never win a case. I know what I'm taking about. There isn't nothing that I said that was a lie in this thread. And no matter how many others come and post in favor for Steve. All of my points stand uncontested. The fact remains that Bronze Tiger could beat Steve and Steve could beat him. It's not one sided as you're trying to make it. You can pull that crap with someone else. I read more than enough comic books to not fall for this kind of nonsense.

Steve.

Cap has fought similar like beings and superior to Bronze tiger h2h.
He isnt a slouch and no human olympic or peak can hold his own against Cap in a fight due to his SSS attributes..

Nightwing has also outright told Slade that Slade couldnt kill him and smirked at him when slade threaten to kill him.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Slade "had his ass railed by Nightwing three times".

You need to go back and take another look because Nightwing never did any more than get off a few attacks then made an escape. I have most of Nightwing's encounters with Slade. Even Dick said Slade could kill him without breaking a sweat.

And you're wrong. Bronze Tiger can beat Steve. All you are doing is underestimating one character in favor for another without probable cause. You tell me when has Bronze Tiger done so bad that he would have no chance against Steve and maybe you'll have and argument here. If this is how you debate, you would never win a case. I know what I'm taking about. There isn't nothing that I said that was a lie in this thread. And no matter how many others come and post in favor for Steve. All of my points stand uncontested. The fact remains that Bronze Tiger could beat Steve and Steve could beat him. It's not one sided as you're trying to make it. You can pull that crap with someone else. I read more than enough comic books to not fall for this kind of nonsense.

You haven't lied but you haven't made any points that need to be contested either. All you have said is that Bronze Tiger can beat Cap... and he can't.

Since you apparently are having trouble fallowing logic and have no detective reasoning I'll make this easier on you. Who wins this hypothetical fight? Fighter A who is better than Fighter B in every conceivable way and never tires, or Fighter B? The answer is pretty f@cking clear..

How is Cap a better fighter than Bronze? The only real way he wins, is because of stats. And stats are overrated, so BT can get SOME wins.

Originally posted by King Castle
Steve.

Cap has fought similar like beings and superior to Bronze tiger h2h.
He isnt a slouch and no human olympic or peak can hold his own against Cap in a fight due to his SSS attributes..

Nightwing has also outright told Slade that Slade couldnt kill him and smirked at him when slade threaten to kill him.

Bronze Tiger has also fought against foes with enhancements. You're not saying anything relevant. And do you think I don't understand contexts? Nightwing didn't mean that Slade coiuldn't kill him because he'll kick Slade's ass. What nightwing meant was that it will be hard because Slade can't catch him and never has. So you're wrong. Sorry man but i know my stuff. You'll have to debate better than that.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
I can truly appreciate everyone's opinion and the love of an character. Because I love this outlet that KMC has where people can get together and debate over comic book characters. But some ride Steve a little too hard at times. I love Steve Rogers too. But he's not unbeatable the way some people make it seem. One would think that Batman, Daredevil, Bronze Tiger, and many others have no chance at all. And in fact that's far from the truth.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
How is Cap a better fighter than Bronze? The only real way he wins, is because of stats. And stats are overrated, so BT can get SOME wins.

Because he is considered one of the if not the best fighter in Marvel U, more skilled than several characters (Shang-Chi and Iron Fist) who themselves are more skilled than Tiger? Because he has been stated to have mastered every fighting style on panel? Because he has owned someone who had knowledge of every fighting style? Because Captain America was never owned by a pre-teen Batgirl or stalemated by Catman? Because Bronze Tiger's history is a convoluted mess, much of which isn't even canon any more?

Pick the ones you'd like.

Bronze Tiger is skilled enough to get some wins. The problem with most DC's mmaers is that they don't get enough exposure or have feats. And they routinely have to job to the Bat family. See Lady Shiva

I don't really by that, sorry. I see BT and Shang on the same level, tbh.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I don't really by that, sorry. I see BT and Shang on the same level, tbh.

You don't buy that Cap is more skilled than Shang-Chi and Iron Fist? Shang-Chi's own rogue gallery said that Steve was more skilled and Steve told Danny to his face that he was more skilled.

Shang is more skilled than BT. He has more appearances that BT, Richard Dragon and Shiva combined and better feats to boot.

Bronze Tiger is essentially fighting himself... only a version who is slightly better in every way. Cap is stronger, faster, more durable, has better reflexes, a healing factor and infinte stamina. Tiger can't beat him.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You haven't lied but you haven't made any points that need to be contested either. All you have said is that Bronze Tiger can beat Cap... and he can't.

Since you apparently are having trouble fallowing logic and have no detective reasoning I'll make this easier on you. Who wins this hypothetical fight? Fighter A who is better than Fighter B in every conceivable way and never tires, or Fighter B? The answer is pretty f@cking clear..

Oh I made many points. But it'll take an reasonable mind to see them. And no you don't see it, because my case the entire thread was that it could go either way. Not one sided in favor of Steve. But I'll end this now.

My point in bringing up Ben's battle with Slade was to prove that he can engage in a protracted battle with an opponent with better stats all around and keep up. But let me guest Steve stats are better than Slade as well, right?

Statements like "no human olympic or peak can hold his own against Cap in a fight due to his SSS attributes" is nonsense and wrong. If that is the case, why couldn't Steve hold his own against Taskmaster without his shield? And how could Taskmaster get the upper hand on Steve and Iron man at the same time?? What happened there?? Exactly.... With the SSS Steve should have taken down Tasky by him self, right?

No street leveler is unbeatable, end of story.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You don't buy that Cap is more skilled than Shang-Chi and Iron Fist? Shang-Chi's own rogue gallery said that Steve was more skilled and Steve told Danny to his face that he was more skilled.

Shang is more skilled than BT. He has more appearances that BT, Richard Dragon and Shiva combined and better feats to boot.

Bronze Tiger is essentially fighting himself... only a version who is slightly better in every way. Cap is stronger, faster, more durable, has better reflexes, a healing factor and infinte stamina. Tiger can't beat him.

Have Cap and Shang ever clashed hth? Because all of those are just words. I don't really care if someone says something. Black Canary said White Canary was more skilled than Shiva. are we to believe that?

Originally posted by Supermutant
Bronze Tiger is skilled enough to get some wins. The problem with most DC's mmaers is that they don't get enough exposure or have feats. And they routinely have to job to the Bat family. See Lady Shiva

Batman has been popular for decades, yet BT has beaten him twice. PC, but still.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Bronze Tiger is essentially fighting himself... only a version who is slightly better in every way. Cap is stronger, faster, more durable, has better reflexes, a healing factor and infinte stamina. Tiger can't beat him.

So why did Bronze Tiger have the upper hand against Slade and pinned him to the ground?? You have no argument.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Because he is considered one of the if not the best fighter in Marvel U, more skilled than several characters (Shang-Chi and Iron Fist) who themselves are more skilled than Tiger? Because he has been stated to have mastered every fighting style on panel? Because he has owned someone who had knowledge of every fighting style? Because Captain America was never owned by a pre-teen Batgirl or stalemated by Catman? Because Bronze Tiger's history is a convoluted mess, much of which isn't even canon any more?

Pick the ones you'd like.

You talk out of your ass about things you're so wrong about it's not even funny. Steve is not THE BEST in Marvel. What, have we forgotten Wolverine? Who is more skilled than Steve. Even Marvel has Wolverine's fighting skills at 7. Steve is at 6.

And who do you think trained Batgirl? Bronze Tiger. And Catman didn't stalemate Bronze Tiger at all. Again you are completely wrong.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Oh I made many points. But it'll take an reasonable mind to see them. And no you don't see it, because my case the entire thread was that it could go either way. Not one sided in favor of Steve. But I'll end this now.

My point in bringing up Ben's battle with Slade was to prove that he can engage in a protracted battle with an opponent with better stats all around and keep up. But let me guest Steve stats are better than Slade as well, right?

Statements like "no human olympic or peak can hold his own against Cap in a fight due to his SSS attributes" is nonsense and wrong. If that is the case, why couldn't Steve hold his own against Taskmaster with his shield? And how could Taskmaster get the upper hand on Steve and Iron man at the same time?? What happened there?? Exactly.... With the SSS Steve should have taken down Tasky by him self, right?

No street leveler is unbeatable, end of story.

Yeah, um Cap does have better stats than Slade. Steve has the strength of 20 men / "Half a Platoon", has stopped a speeding car by grabbing the bumper as it sped past him, runs 60 mph while carrying a full grown man, sees bullets in slow motion and has tanked bullets even without his armor.

Slade has trouble with every street he fights, because isn't a very skilled combatant. You are using one of the examples people cite to show that undermine Slade, and trying to use it to boost Ben.

Cap has beat Taskmaster every single time they've fought, or Taskmaster has run away. In that instance you are referencing Tasky blocked Cap's shield, clocked him and ran away. Awesome? I've already said I've already said BT could hold his own more or less evenly for 3-5 minutes. How many fights do you think last longer than that in a comics, particularly with streets? Caps fights with other street level heroes are all brief skirmishes, and he still almost always has the advantage. If those fights played out until someone was koed Steve would pull further and further ahead the longer the fight lasted. Every fight Cap has had with a street is like the first two minutes of Chuck Norris vs Bruce Lee in Way of the Dragon. Cap is Bruce Lee... only unlike Lee, Cap wins the fight in the first 2 minutes (instead of getting dominated like Lee) and never has the oppertunity to go crazy in the last three minutes because the fight never gets there.

Originally posted by Supermutant
Bronze Tiger is skilled enough to get some wins. The problem with most DC's mmaers is that they don't get enough exposure or have feats. And they routinely have to job to the Bat family. See Lady Shiva

Shiva doesn't job to no one or Bronze Tiger. And Ben can get the majority here.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
So why did Bronze Tiger have the upper hand against Slade and pinned him to the ground?? You have no argument. Slade was weakened when Ben even states this in that figjt

Originally posted by Marvelknight
So why did Bronze Tiger have the upper hand against Slade and pinned him to the ground?? You have no argument. Slade was weakened when Ben even states this in that fight

Originally posted by Marvelknight
You talk out of your ass about things you're so wrong about it's not even funny. Steve is not THE BEST in Marvel. What, have we forgotten Wolverine? Who is more skilled than Steve. Even Marvel has Wolverine's fighting skills at 7. Steve is at 6.

And who do you think trained Batgirl? Bronze Tiger. And Catman didn't stalemate Bronze Tiger at all. Again you are completely wrong.

Hand Book power levels? Really? Stop embarrassing yourself. Cap and Wolverine and equally skilled, the knife may fall towards Wolverine (he said he was more skilled, but maybe it was just bravado) or Cap, but any difference between the two would be inconsequential. I do of course fell obliged to note I said "one of the" most skilled fighters.

David Cain trained Batgirl, and she wrecked BT and the entire League of Assassins.

FYI. If both fighters pass out and are koed when the fight ends, then that is a stalemate.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yeah, um Cap does have better stats than Slade. Steve has the strength of 20 men / "Half a Platoon", has stopped a speeding car by grabbing the bumper as it sped past him, runs 60 mph while carrying a full grown man, sees bullets in slow motion and has tanked bullets even without his armor.

Slade has trouble with every street he fights, because isn't a very skilled combatant. You are using one of the examples people cite to show that undermine Slade, and trying to use it to boost Ben.

Cap has beat Taskmaster every single time they've fought, or Taskmaster has run away. In that instance you are referencing Tasky blocked Cap's shield, clocked him and ran away. Awesome? I've already said I've already said BT could hold his own more or less evenly for 3-5 minutes. How many fights do you think last longer than that in a comics, particularly with streets? Caps fights with other street level heroes are all brief skirmishes, and he still almost always has the advantage. If those fights played out until someone was koed Steve would pull further and further ahead the longer the fight lasted. Every fight Cap has had with a street is like the first two minutes of Chuck Norris vs Bruce Lee in Way of the Dragon. Cap is Bruce Lee... only he wins the fight in the first 2 minutes (instead of getting dominated like Lee) and never has to go crazy in the last three minutes because the fight never gets there.

Is Something wrong with you? Slade is a meta-human. No Steve's stats are not better than Slade's. And what is this nonsense about Steve beating Tasky every time? So what now, Steve can't lose?? Bull sh#@..... You're just a fanboy. I'm not falling for any of your nonsense here. This fight can go either way. So stop wanking Steve.

When was it stated Cap MASTERED all fighting style

When was iddfft stated Cap MASTERED all fighting styles

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331023-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_1_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331024-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_2_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331025-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_3_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331026-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_4_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331027-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_5_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331029-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_7_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331030-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_8_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331031-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_9_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331032-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_10_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331033-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_11_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331034-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_12_super.jpg

here is the scans for the fight between Slade and Bronze tiger

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Is Something wrong with you? Slade is a meta-human. No Steve's stats are not better than Slade's. And what is this nonsense about Steve beating Tasky every time? So what now, Steve can't lose?? Bull sh#@..... You're just a fanboy. I'm not falling for any of your nonsense here. This fight can go either way. So stop wanking Steve.

Annnnnnnnnnd Cap is superhuman. There is a reason he is called a super soldier. Return your handbooks to the library and read some actually comics...

Here is the reality. Cap already has edged out most street level MAs even in the brief fights he has with them, and none of those fight last long enough for his advantages to be put in play. That won't happen here. Cap and Ben won't decided to team up, or stop fighting, they will go until someone is koed. Bronze Tiger CANNOT beat Steve in a h2h fight. He can hold his own at the beginning, but he CANNOT win. I hate to throw the bucket of cold water that is reason and logic and the boner you have for Bronze Tiger, but that is the reality of the situation. No human without powers can beat Cap.

Originally posted by iceman24567
When was it stated Cap MASTERED all fighting style

Like 30 years ago...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Like 30 years ago... i dont there is such a scan

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Hand Book power levels? Really? Stop embarrassing yourself. Cap and Wolverine and equally skilled, the knife may fall towards Wolverine (he said he was more skilled, but maybe it was just bravado) or Cap, but any difference between the two would be inconsequential. I do of course fell obliged to note I said "one of the" most skilled fighters.

David Cain trained Batgirl, and she wrecked BT and the entire League of Assassins.

FYI. If both fighters pass out and are koed when the fight ends, then that is a stalemate.

I'm sorry but it's you who embarrassing yourself here. How is Steve and Logan on the same level? Wolverine is far more older with far more experience. And he wasn't trapped in a block a ice for decades. Where is your logic?

And The fight with Bronze Tiger and Catman ended when Catman Got knocked out. Do you think UFC would call that a draw, just because the fighter who is standing last passed out after?? Again where is your logic. Please try harder. Because you have a real debate on your hands here. And you're not proving anything to me so far.

Originally posted by iceman24567
i dont there is such a scan

There is, he is beating up Baron Zemo and says he has mastered every fighting style.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Batman has been popular for decades, yet BT has beaten him twice. PC, but still.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
So would I. Bruce will give Ben a better fight now imo.

yeah now i think it be a much better fight between Bronze Tiger and Bruce Batman

Hmm I dont think the word mastered was used anybody have that fight on hand ?

Originally posted by Marvelknight
I'm sorry but it's you who embarrassing yourself here. How is Steve and Logan on the same level? Wolverine is far more older with far more experience. And he wasn't trapped in a block a ice for decades. Where is your logic?

And The fight with Bronze Tiger and Catman ended when Catman Got knocked out. Do you think UFC would call that a draw, just because the fighter who is standing last passed out after?? Again where is your logic. Please try harder. Because you have a real debate on your hands here. And you're not proving anything to me so far.

And Thor and Hercules are far older than either Wolverine or Cap, and both are FAR less skilled the either of them. Experiences is nearly inconsequential in comics, there is a reason Ra's doesn't steam roll Batman. Also Cap has superhuman processing power thanks to the SSS so he learns at an accelerated rate.

UFC would have stopped the fight when Catman bit him on the neck and he would have be disqualified. In the real world if two fighter's passed out seconds apart, that is a stalemate.

Originally posted by King Castle
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331023-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_1_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331024-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_2_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331025-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_3_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331026-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_4_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331027-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_5_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331029-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_7_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331030-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_8_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331031-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_9_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331032-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_10_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331033-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_11_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331034-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_12_super.jpg

here is the scans for the fight between Slade and Bronze tiger

I have this comic book. It prove my point that Bronze Tiger can contend with Slade. And he could certainly can against Steve.

Once again Slade was weakened during that encounter

Originally posted by iceman24567
Once again Slade was weakened during that encounter i just posted it so ppl could see it for themselves and not take anyone elses word for it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And Thor and Hercules are far older than either Wolverine or Cap, and both are FAR less skilled the either of them. Experiences is nearly inconsequential in comics, there is a reason Ra's doesn't steam roll Batman. Also Cap has superhuman processing power thanks to the SSS so he learns at an accelerated rate.

UFC would have stopped the fight when Catman bit him on the neck and he would have be disqualified. In the real world if two fighter's passed out seconds apart, that is a stalemate.

Wrong, Catman was knocked out. Bronze Tiger passed out from blood loss. He still made his stand and beat Catman with ease. And Thor and Hercules are older, But that's not the same as my point. Again you're proving nothing.

Wolverine has been training in different martial arts disciplines for decades. While Steve was frozen in ice. That is the difference with my point.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Once again Slade was weakened during that encounter

Wrong. I have all the issues leading up to that fight, and nothing happened to Slade that weaken him. And Slade was weaken when he out smarted Aqua Man, Hal Jordan, and Wally. If Slade was weaken, what's your point? Nothing can be taken away from Bronze Tiger at all here.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Wrong, Catman was knocked out. Bronze Tiger passed out from blood loss. He still made his stand and beat Catman with ease. And Thor and Hercules are older, But that's not the same as my point. Again you're proving nothing.

Wolverine has been training in different martial arts disciplines for decades. While Steve was frozen in ice. That is the difference with my point.

Yeah he passed out for blood loss... from Catman biting him... which is a stalemate. If a fight ends, and both fighters are laid out, that is a stalemate.

And Herc and Thor have been training and fighting wars for a millennia... and they still aren't as skilled as Cap or Wolverine. Cap being frozen in ice doesn't matter,

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yeah he passed out for blood loss... from Catman biting him... which is a stalemate. If a fight ends, and both fighters are laid out, that is a stalemate.

And Herc and Thor have been training and fighting wars for a millennia... and they still aren't as skilled as Cap or Wolverine. Cap being frozen in ice doesn't matter,

If one guy is knock out, there is no fight anymore. It's over. They didn't knock each other out at the same time. Where the hell is your common sense, man? You're just trying to debate with no probable cause to back. Steve can be beaten, and it's not one sided. You have no argument here. You underestimating Bronze Tiger for no reason at all, and there is none.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

And Herc and Thor have been training and fighting wars for a millennia... and they still aren't as skilled as Cap or Wolverine.


they are, they just dont have to b

Originally posted by Marvelknight
If one guy is knock out, there is no fight anymore. It's over. They didn't knock each other out at the same time. Where the hell is your common sense, man? You're just trying to debate with no probable cause to back. Steve can be beaten, and it's not one sided. You have no argument here. You underestimating Bronze Tiger for no reason at all, and there is none.

They were both unconscious, seconds apart, resulting form the same fight. That is a stalemate.

Steve can be beaten, but not by a street level MA without a plot device.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
they are, they just dont have to b

They don't have to be... and it is just a happy coincident that they aren't.

A few of you are very close to a warning. I'm giving fair notice so there won't be any complaining after.

Originally posted by King Castle
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331023-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_1_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331024-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_2_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331025-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_3_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331026-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_4_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331027-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_5_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331029-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_7_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331030-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_8_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331031-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_9_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331032-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_10_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331033-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_11_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53838/1331034-deathstroke_vs_bronze_tiger_12_super.jpg

here is the scans for the fight between Slade and Bronze tiger


Anybody else look at these scans and feel that Slade wasnt really threatened at all by Bronze Tiger?

i dont see Cap losing in h2h he has the fighting skills and reflexes to even him out and if we add his overall attributes and long history of feats he should win the decisive majority.

his punches as strong enough to rock any olympic peak more often then not.

are they wearing their standard armor in this fight?

i see the chain mail also giving him an edge in durability as well.

BT can certainly keep up for a while. He did fight Catseye who has quick ass reflexes and speed.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
BT can certainly keep up for a while. He did fight Catseye who has quick ass reflexes and speed. and Cap fought spiderman showing his extensive knowledge and most importantly his knowledge of pressure points after losing the shield.

I don't doubt Cap's feats, but this isn't a stomp for either character.

Originally posted by King Castle
and Cap fought spiderman showing his extensive knowledge and most importantly his knowledge of pressure points after losing the shield.

So what happened here?

Taskmaster Vs Captain America, he has Cap at his mercy until Cap uses some tech, admittedly, Cap doesn't have his shield in this fight-
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-1.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-2.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-3.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-4.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-5.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-6.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-7.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-8.jpg

IIRC, That is part two of a fight that started when Taskmaster ambushed Cap.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
So what happened here?

Taskmaster Vs Captain America, he has Cap at his mercy until Cap uses some tech, admittedly, Cap doesn't have his shield in this fight-
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-1.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-2.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-3.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-4.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-5.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-6.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-7.jpg http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/Taskmaster%20Respect%20thread/th_Cap-2-8.jpg

If you'd like to argue that BT could be a legitmate threat to an unarmed Cap, if he had an arsenal of weaponry and ambushed him then that is a different thread...

Originally posted by tkitna
Anybody else look at these scans and feel that Slade wasnt really threatened at all by Bronze Tiger?

Well Slade didn't just beat him down the way he did Batman. Funny when you think about it. Because Slade was trying to get away from the US government. Why fight when you just take little Bronze Tiger down, right?

And anyone who reads Deathstroke, can see that Bronze Tiger gave Slade more trouble than the JLA and Teen Titans. More trouble than any other has ever given him before.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
BT can certainly keep up for a while. He did fight Catseye who has quick ass reflexes and speed.

Five minutes of an even fight with back and forth, then Cap start to steadily pulls ahead as battle fatigue starts and reflexes begin to slow.

Did Catseye ever beat anyone or do anything significant? Because I only remember him losing to BT in Suicide Squad.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If you'd like to argue that BT could be a legitmate threat to an unarmed Cap, if he had an arsenal of weaponry and ambushed him then that is a different thread...

That sounds like you're making excuses now. Steve has the Super Solider Serum in him, no street leveler should out last Steve or be more skilled. Because he the most skilled fighter in Marvel, right? Oh sure Tasky has loads of weapon and he ambushed him. But isn't Steve a master tactician. Why not improvise, huh? I guest everybody has their bad days after all.

Do you even know what Taskmaster's power is?

well in the scan TS ambushed him and had various weapons even then Cap was avoiding dodging till he finally manage to get the upperhand.

that is not synonymous with a h2h fight with a different fighter who doent have knowledge of the character's fighting skills or a mutant type ability of photo reflexive skillset.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
That sounds like you're making excuses now. Steve has the Super Solider Serum in him, no street leveler should out last Steve or be more skilled. Because he the most skilled fighter in Marvel, right? Oh sure Tasky has loads of weapon and he ambushed him. But isn't Steve a master tactician. Why not improvise, huh? I guest everybody has their bad days after all.

Improvise? You mean like purposely handicapping himself and holding back a trump card until he needed the most even though he could have used it the entire time?

And Taskmaster has catalogue of all the skills of Marvel's best fighters in his repitoire.

and didtnt you marvelknight earlier try to use Taskmaster to lowball Cap against cap & Ironman?

the question now becomes to you believe BT could have done better or equal as cap in the same exact situation?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Do you even know what Taskmaster's power is?

Yes as in his name "TASK" master. Tony can perform any feat that he observes, perfectly without practicing. As long the feat doesn't require superhuman effort. He can also fast forward footage of Steve fighting and replicate it with limited superhuman speed. Anything else?

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Yes as in his name "TASK" master. Tony can perform any feat that he observes, perfectly without practicing. As long the feat doesn't require superhuman effort. He can also fast forward footage of Steve fighting and replicate it with limited superhuman speed. Anything else?

Are you also aware that he's made a point of studying Cap for years?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Improvise? You mean like purposely handicapping himself and holding back a trump card until he needed the most even though he could have used it the entire time?

And Taskmaster has catalogue of all the skills of Marvel's best fighters in his repitoire.

But didn't you say that Steve is the best in Marvel?? your words not mind. And now because Taskmaster knows all these styles, you're saying that Steve isn't skilled enough to fight him without any weapons?

Originally posted by King Castle
and didtnt you marvelknight earlier try to use Taskmaster to lowball Cap against cap & Ironman?

the question now becomes to you believe BT could have done better or equal as cap in the same exact situation?

It wasn't used to lowball Steve at all. Some people feel that no street leveler can take h2h without PIS. So I use fight where Steve has not only his shield, but Iron Man there as well against one man. For the most skilled and unbeatable fighter that is Steve Rogers. That shouldn't have gone the way it did. But it did.

but steve didnt fight Taskmaster strictly h2h at least Taskmaster was armed and there are a lot of human lvlers that shouldn't be able to beat cap in h2h.

strictly h2h i dont see Taskmaster really winning against cap either way but that is for another discussion.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Are you also aware that he's made a point of studying Cap for years?
So what you are implying is that Captain America can't beat or has a hard beating some one who fights the same exact way as himself? Bronze Tiger has done that in Suicide Squad #65

Originally posted by Marvelknight
So what you are implying is that Captain America can't beat or has a hard beating some one who fights the same exact way as himself? Bronze Tiger has done that in Suicide Squad #65

I'm "implying" that TM was armed, had studied Cap's fighting style for years and ambushed Cap, yet he still lost.

IOW, TM didn't outlast Cap, nor was he more skilled.

Originally posted by King Castle
but steve didnt fight Taskmaster strictly h2h at least Taskmaster was armed and there are a lot of human lvlers that shouldn't be able to beat cap in h2h.

strictly h2h i dont see Taskmaster really winning against cap either way but that is for another discussion.

And you don't see the flaw in your reasoning? No character is infallible.

So

Elektra

Daredveil

Lady Shiva

Richard Drongon

Shang Chi

The Sensi

Iron Fist

Connor Hawke

Cassandra Cain

Batman

Bronze Tiger

Taskmaster

Deathstroke

Wildcat

Prometheus

Black Canary

Reene Montoya/Vic Sage

Pyslocke

Ogun (before his death)

Wolverine

None of these martial artist stand a chance h2h? Nobody can take Steve right? Nobody at all?

Well I rest my case. Because this is the most biased thing I ever heard. And if it were true, no moderator would let the thread be created since nobody has a chance h2h against Steve Rogers.

To be fair, someone has to be the best.

Cap

if you turn off their powers and were strictly human, no.

you got telepaths,
enhanced humans/mutant/mystics and you are trying to equate them to Bronze tiger?

you dont see the massive difference?

maybe make a thread with each and we'll discuss it as it is i dont feel like running down the list and pointing out the fallacy in logic.

Originally posted by King Castle
if you turn off their powers and were strictly human, no.

you got telepaths,
enhanced humans/mutant/mystics and you are trying to equate them to Bronze tiger?

you dont see the massive difference?

maybe make a thread with each and we'll discuss it as it is i dont feel like running down the list and pointing out the fallacy in logic.

None of the characters on the list have to use their abilities just to fight Steve h2h. I can just say the same for Steve, and give every one on the list equal bodies as Steve (like in the Frank Castle vs Steve Rogers thread) and lets see would win then...

Originally posted by Marvelknight
And you don't see the flaw in your reasoning? No character is infallible.

So

Elektra

Daredveil

Lady Shiva

Richard Drongon

Shang Chi

The Sensi

Iron Fist

Connor Hawke

Cassandra Cain

Batman

Bronze Tiger

Taskmaster

Deathstroke

Wildcat

Prometheus

Black Canary

Reene Montoya/Vic Sage

Pyslocke

Ogun (before his death)

Wolverine

None of these martial artist stand a chance h2h? Nobody can take Steve right? Nobody at all?

Well I rest my case. Because this is the most biased thing I ever heard. And if it were true, no moderator would let the thread be created since nobody has a chance h2h against Steve Rogers.

The only people on that list who could beat Cap all have powers, and very few of them (ie Wolverine / Ogun) could contend with Steve in a pure h2h melee throw down.

With all things equal (attributes, stamina, ect), in equal bodies and the fight decided solely on skill, Captain America would still take the slight majority against Ben, 5.5-6/10. But all things aren't equal. Steve is stronger. Steve is faster. Steve never tires. Steve heals faster. Steve is a better a fighter. He has every possible advantage. Bronze Tiger can't defeat Captain America in h2h without a plot device, to think otherwise is delusional.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The only people on that list who could beat Cap all have powers, and very few of them (ie Wolverine / Ogun) could contend with Steve in a pure h2h melee throw down.

With all things equal (attributes, stamina, ect), in equal bodies and the fight decided solely on skill, Captain America would still take the slight majority against Ben, 5.5-6/10. But all things aren't equal. Steve is stronger. Steve is faster. Steve never tires. Steve heals faster. Steve is a better a fighter. He has every possible advantage. Bronze Tiger can't defeat Captain America in h2h without a plot device, to think otherwise is delusional.

To think that Steve can't lose is delusional. You even say that "With all things equal (attributes, stamina, ect), in equal bodies and the fight decided solely on skill, Captain America would still take the slight majority against Ben, 5.5-6/10." You can't even give Ben the nod in martial arts skills and It's your opinion that Steve is the better fighter. It's not proven fact.

Slade the same advantages that Steve does over Bronze Tiger what's your point?

he doesnt give him the nod most likely due to lack of having a full history to showcase his MA skills when compared to the likes of Cap.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
To think that Steve can't lose is delusional. You even say that "With all things equal (attributes, stamina, ect), in equal bodies and the fight decided solely on skill, Captain America would still take the slight majority against Ben, 5.5-6/10." You can't even give Ben the nod in martial arts skills and It's your opinion that Steve is the better fighter. It's not proven fact.

Slade the same advantages that Steve does over Bronze Tiger what's your point?

Giving Turner a skill advantage would be an arbitrary edge that I would be throwing to him on a whim without any evidence to support it. There is not a single shred of evidence to support the notion that BT is as or more skilled as Cap. Ben has less than 200 appearances, some of them are pre-crisis, some of them have been retcon'd out of existance. His history does not support the oppinion that he is more skilled than Cap. All there is, is the fact that BT is more skilled than Batman and the undiagnosed psychological disorder prevalent among fanboys that makes them believe that Batman = Cap.

In equal bodies without added abilities Captain America can go at least 50/50 with any human not named Karate Kid (or Old Masters and transcendents like Ogun or Stick)

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Giving Turner a skill advantage would be an arbitrary edge that I would be throwing to him on a whim without any evidence to support it. There is not a single shred of evidence to support the notion that BT is as or more skilled as Cap. Ben has less than 200 appearances, some of them are pre-crisis, some of them have been retcon'd out of existance. His history does not support the oppinion that he is more skilled than Cap. All there is, is the fact that BT is more skilled than Batman and the undiagnosed psychological disorder prevalent among fanboys that makes them believe that Batman = Cap.

In equal bodies without added abilities Captain America can go at least 50/50 with any human not named Karate Kid (or Old Masters and transcendents like Ogun or Stick)

Again, that is an opinion. Steve is not more skilled than Bruce, so how is he more skilled than Bronze Tiger? You speak your opinion like it's fact when it's not. If Steve didn't have the SSS he would certainly not hang with the likes of Bruce, Shiva, or Ben. That is a fact. It's a fact 'cause without the SSS Steve isn't even peak human.

Originally posted by King Castle
he doesnt give him the nod most likely due to lack of having a full history to showcase his MA skills when compared to the likes of Cap.

So you side with the more popular character?? DC has made it clear that Bronze Tiger is one of the premiere martial arts masters in DC. And having more feats does not give a character the win. Batman has far more feats than Bronze Tiger. So that's not a factor here for Steve.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Again, that is an opinion. Steve is not more skilled than Bruce, so how is he more than skilled than Bronze Tiger? You speak your opinion like it's fact when it's not. If Steve didn't have the SSS he would certainly not hang with the likes of Bruce, Shiva, or Ben. That is a fact. It's a fact 'cause without the SSS Steve isn't even peak human.

Steve is more skilled than Bruce. Captain America is considered to be the premier fighter on Marvel Earth. Batman doesn't even crack the top five in DC. I suppose you could pretend that means that everyone in DC most be more skilled... except several characters below Cap on the hierarchy of Marvel Martial Artists would be vying for the top spot of they were transposed into DC continuity. Batman is as skilled as Daredevil and Captain America is more skilled than either of them.

Back when Beast was on the Avengers, Steve had lost his SSS and even in his weakened state he was peak human. Of course on an other occasion he reverted into a 90lbs weakling... but even then he was kicking the collective asses of SSS super soldiers.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
So you side with the more popular character?? DC has made it clear that clear that Bronze Tiger is one the premiere martial arts masters in DC. And having more feats does not give a character the win. Batman has far more feats than Bronze Tiger. So that's not a factor here with Steve. it doesnt but we also dont claim he can do the same skills set abilities as bat's, cass or shiva anymore then cap.

we show what he has done on panel and not make assumptions.

we know Cap knows pressure points can land them on guys like spiderman.. we know Cap can hold his own for a short time with Wolverine without his shield, adamantly an exhausted Logan.

we know Cap can anticipate attacks from BP has faster reaction time enough for BP admit it that his SSS makes him superior even with his basic style used by cap.

also Ironfist has commented on it as has Wolverine and Cap has repeatedly showcased his skills and has gotten the respect by on panel feats.

you want to claim BT can win fine reference the feats that he will use to win against Cap.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Steve is more skilled than Bruce. Captain America is considered to be the premier fighter on Marvel Earth. Batman doesn't even crack the top five in DC. I suppose you could pretend that means that everyone in DC most be more skilled... except several characters below Cap on the hierarchy of Marvel Martial Artists would be vying for the top spot of they were transposed into DC continuity. Batman is as skilled as Daredevil and Captain America is more skilled than either of them.

Back when Beast was on the Avengers, Steve had lost his SSS and even in his weakened state he was peak human. Of course on an other occasion he reverted into a 90lbs weakling... but even then he was kicking the collective asses of SSS super soldiers.

Hell yeah Batman is in the top 5. And he is he more skilled. Are you $%*&ing crazy?

Originally posted by King Castle
it doesnt but we also dont claim he can do the same skills set abilities as bat's, cass or shiva anymore then cap.

we show what he has done on panel and not make assumptions.

we know Cap knows pressure points can land them on guys like spiderman.. we know Cap can hold his own for a short time with Wolverine without his shield, adamantly an exhausted Logan.

we know Cap can anticipate attacks from BP has faster reaction time enough for BP admit it that his SSS makes him superior even with his basic style used by cap.

also Ironfist has commented on it as has Wolverine and Cap has repeatedly showcased his skills and has gotten the respect by on panel feats.

you want to claim BT can win fine reference the feats that he will use to win against Cap.

And what, Bronze Tiger has done nothing?!?!

This is by far the biggest load of crap that I've ever had to deal with here. Neither of you have proved nothing. You can post feats all day and it wouldn't take nothing away from Bronze Tiger. Bronze Tiger is established as a premiere martial Artist.

srankmissingnin, you talk about Batman like he's not more skilled, How?!? Batman has been training since he was 8 years old. All of the premiere martial Artist in DC, Batman has stalemated or beat them. But he's not in the top 5. Get the #%^& out of here with that. Please do not proceed to tell me about Batman, who he is and what he can or DC for that matter.

Even without their exotic and quasi mystical abilities Shang-Chi, Iron Fist or Elektra would go at least 50 with any human MA in standard DC continuity not named Karate Kid or Kid Nemesis. For arguments sake lets be generous to DC and say that in terms of application of skill and technical ability that (more or less) Shang-Chi = BT, Iron Fist = Dragon, and Elektra = Shiva. Well, Captain America is established on panel as being more skilled than Shang-Chi or Iron Fist. Batman is established as being less skilled than Dragon, BT, Shiva.

Do the math. There isn't not a lot of opinion involved really. I know that Shang-Chi would at least stalemate Dragon. I know that Iron Fist would at least stalemate BT. I know that Captain America has been stated on panel to be more skilled than those two Marvel Characters, and that Batman has been established as being less skilled as the DC ones. It is called forming an educated opinion based on facts... which is different than saying "I think BT is better... because... well just because!"

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Even without their exotic and quasi mystical abilities Shang-Chi, Iron Fist or Elektra would go at least 50 with any human MA in standard DC continuity not named Karate Kid or Kid Nemesis. For arguments sake lets be generous to DC and say that in terms of application of skill and technical ability that (more or less) Shang-Chi = BT, Iron Fist = Dragon, and Elektra = Shiva. Well, Captain America is established on panel as being more skilled than Shang-Chi or Iron Fist. Batman is established as being less skilled than Dragon, BT, Shiva.

Do the math. There isn't not a lot of opinion involved really. I know that Shang-Chi would at least stalemate Dragon. I know that Iron Fist would at least stalemate BT. I know that Captain America has been stated on panel to be more skilled than those two Marvel Characters, and that Batman has been established as being less skilled as the DC ones. It is called forming an educated opinion based on facts... which is different than saying "I think BT is better... because... well just because!"

Sorry it doesn't work that way. Flawed logic.

What's sad is that I really do love Steve Rogers as a character. But I can't stand his fanboy at all.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Hell yeah Batman is in the top 5. And he is he more skilled. Are you $%*&ing crazy?



And what, Bronze Tiger has done nothing?!?!

This is by far the biggest load of crap that I've ever had to deal with here. Neither of you have proved nothing. You can post feats all day and it wouldn't take nothing away from Bronze Tiger. Bronze Tiger is established as a premiere martial Artist.

srankmissingnin, you talk about Batman like he's not more skilled, How?!? Batman has been training since he was 8 years old. All of the premiere martial Artist in DC, Batman has stalemated. But he not in the top 5. Get the #%^& out of here with that. Please do not proceed to tell me about Batman, who is and what he can or DC for that matter.

Batman is not in the top 5 of DC Martial artists. Shiva, Dragon, BT, Cassandra and Connor are all more skilled then he is. According to Oracle, Black Canary is more skilled as well. Then there are characters Drakon and White Canary, or Alpha and Mad Dog.

Go read Year One. He started training when he was 13 (he returned to Gotham when he was 25 and was gone for 12 years) and not all of that was martial arts training, a good chuck was the criminal sciences and business.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Sorry it doesn't work that way. Flawed logic.

Yes it does. Shang-Chi would beat any human martial artist in DC not named Karate Kid. Captain America is established as being more skilled than Shang-Chi. Now jump into your Batman pjs, put on Mask of the Phantasm, climb into your cozy Batman bedsheets and cry yourself to sleep.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Batman is not in the top 5 of DC Martial artists. Shiva, Dragon, BT, Cassandra and Connor are all more skilled then he is. According to Oracle, Black Canary is more skilled as well. Then there are characters Drakon and White Canary, or Alpha and Mad Dog.

Go read Year One. He started training when he was 13 (he returned to Gotham when he was 25 and was gone for 12 years) and not all of that was martial arts training, a good chuck was the criminal sciences and business.

Who gives a damn what Oracle said. I know Cassandra and Connor couldn't hold a candle to Bruce or Black Canary. Batman has beaten Shiva, Bronze Tiger couldn't gain the advantage on Bruce the second time around and Richard couldn't beat Bruce neither. Even Slade said he wouldn't fight Batman without his enhancements and you're telling Steve would beat Batman without the SSS. WOW!!! This is gething way too far now.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Who gives a damn what Oracle said. I know Cassandra and Connor couldn't hold a candle to Bruce or Black Canary. Batman has beaten Shiva, Bronze Tiger couldn't gain the advantage on Bruce the second time around and Richard couldn't beat Bruce neither. Even Slade said he wouldn't fight Batman without his enhancements and you're telling Steve would beat Batman without the SSS. WOW!!! This is gething way too far now.

Who gives a damn what you say? You don't even know how long Batman trained for or when he started, meaning you likely haven't even read Year One. Both Cassandra and Connor have more to their names to support their skill than that Black Canary. Anyway all of those characters are considered more skilled than Bruce in DC continuity by Batman's peers.

Batman has beaten Shiva twice with the help of Robin and once while she was mind controlled. Dragon didn't want to or even try to fight Bruce with any effort and still stalemated him. Batman also has armored suit that gives him an advantage in melee against characters that don't (ie Dragon, Shiva, BT), and in the case of Shiva he is much stronger and has about a hundred pounds on her. Point being Bruce has other advantages that serve to close limited skill gabs.

Slade is a piss pour fighter. Both Winter Green and Addie were supposed to be more skilled than he was in their prime, and neither of them is Batman.

Captain America is more skilled than Bruce. Equal bodies, he takes him 6-6.5/10. In his weak pre SSS body he loses.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Who gives a damn what you say? You don't even know how long Batman trained for or when he started, meaning you likely haven't even read Year One. Both Cassandra and Connor have more to their names to support their skill than that Black Canary. Anyway all of those characters are considered more skilled than Bruce in DC continuity by Batman's peers.

Batman has beaten Shiva twice with the help of Robin and once while she was mind controlled. Dragon didn't want to or even try to fight Bruce with any effort and still stalemated him. Batman also has armored suit that gives him an advantage in melee against characters that don't (ie Dragon, Shiva, BT), and in the case of Shiva he is much stronger and has about a hundred pounds on her. Point being Bruce has other advantages that serve to close limited skill gabs.

Slade is a piss pour fighter. Both Winter Green and Addie were supposed to be more skilled than he was in their prime, and neither of them is Batman.

Captain America is more skilled than Bruce. Equal bodies, he takes him 6-6.5/10. In his weak pre SSS body he loses.

Please I have over 280 Batman comics. Year one as well. I'm wiling to bet money I know far more about Bruce than you ever could. DO NOT TELL ME ABOUT BATMAN!!! It's doesn't matter what Oracle said. Superman also thinks that Karate Kid is better. But Batman stalemated him too. Robin came towards the end sucker punched Shiva. But until then it was a stalemate. And what prof do you have that Shiva was mind controlled? None.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Please I have over 280 Batman comics. Year one as well. I'm wiling to bet money I know far more about Bruce than you ever could. DO NOT TELL ME ABOUT BATMAN!!! It's doesn't matter what Oracle said. Superman also thinks that Karate Kid is better. But Batman stalemated him too. Robin came towards the end sucker punched Shiva. But until then it was a stalemate. And what prof do you have that Shiva was mind controlled? None.

280 Batman comics! Oh boy!!!!!!! Congratulations you've read less than 1/20th of Batman's appearances. Surely you are the foremost authority of Batman! When are you getting tenure? Seasriously, go download some turrents or buy an asston of back issues because you are out of you're league here champ.

Karate Kid was weakened. Karate Kid is more skilled than Bruce. All three version are, except maybe 3-boot.

What prove do I have that Shiva was mind controlled? Deductive reasoning? The fact that every other villain in the issue was mind controlled? That no one would pay to hire Shiva when they were mind controlling every other villain in the DC U...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
280 Batman comics! Oh boy!!!!!!! Congratulations you've read less than 1/20th of Batman's appearances. Surely you are the foremost authority of Batman! When are you getting tenure? Seasriously, go download some turrents or buy an asston of back issues because you are out of you're league here champ.

Karate Kid was weakened. Karate Kid is more skilled than Bruce. All three version are, except maybe 3-boot.

What prove do I have that Shiva was mind controlled? Deductive reasoning? The fact that every other villain in the issue was mind controlled? That no one would pay to hire Shiva when they were mind controlling every other villain in the DC U...
And how many do you have?? My 285 are all important issues. No need to have everything since most of the early comics are not even canon anymore. So your wrong there. I read enough to have an all around understanding of who Bruce is and what he's capable of. Having more skills doesn't mean you're the better fighter. Fighting is a skill in and of it's self. Martial arts adds the sweet touch to it. And what deductive reasoning do you have here? Nothing because If it wasn't explain on panel. You can't call it fact. It's just the way you see it and nothing more.

just a thread friends

different opinions doesn't equate one is better than the next

agree to disagree

mods do watch

imo, yes imo...steve wins...i am a fan of both...

Turner is one of DC's top tier MA's as Rogers is one of Marvel's top tier MA's.. that being said and my vast knowledge of both even with SSS Rogers still will lose to Turner, possibly not by much as I believe this to be a close and very good match..

Originally posted by Marvelknight
And you don't see the flaw in your reasoning? No character is infallible.

So

Elektra

Daredveil

Lady Shiva

Richard Drongon

Shang Chi

The Sensi

Iron Fist

Connor Hawke

Cassandra Cain

Batman

Bronze Tiger

Taskmaster

Deathstroke

Wildcat

Prometheus

Black Canary

Reene Montoya/Vic Sage

Pyslocke

Ogun (before his death)

Wolverine

None of these martial artist stand a chance h2h? Nobody can take Steve right? Nobody at all?

Well I rest my case. Because this is the most biased thing I ever heard. And if it were true, no moderator would let the thread be created since nobody has a chance h2h against Steve Rogers.


Awesome list of "human" characters there buddy....


Wow... haven't seen bafoonery like this since another I shall not name, but most here know who I'm talkin about..

Originally posted by jinzin

Awesome list of "human" characters there buddy....


Wow... haven't seen bafoonery like this since another I shall not name, but most here know who I'm talkin about.. srank?

ooooooh snap!

Anyways.... I DO so enjoy reading arguments with trolls... lad to know I'm not the only one who gets involved in them lol.

Agreed on all points with Srank save his assessment of TM.... TM usually runs away but it's after a nice little serving of humiliation to Steve... regardless a non-jobbing Taskmaster isn't getting beaten by most human MA'ers anyway.

Originally posted by jinzin

Awesome list of "human" characters there buddy....


Wow... haven't seen bafoonery like this since another I shall not name, but most here know who I'm talkin about..

Everyone I put on the list is there because of their martial arts skills. Steve is far from a "normal" human. What's the problem?

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Everyone I put on the list is there because of their martial arts skills. Steve is far from a "normal" human. What's the problem?
That you're trying to create a list of characters to compare to Steve as if they have any relevance in a dicussion about BT.

It doesn't make any sense... but your trollin ass already knows that.

Originally posted by jinzin
That you're trying to create a list of characters to compare to Steve as if they have any relevance in a dicussion about BT.

It doesn't make any sense... but your trollin ass already knows that.

How am I trolling, Jinzin?

Originally posted by Mindset
srank?



Anyone with more than a passing familiarity with these characters knows I'm right. So agree with me or admit you aren't knowledgeable enough for your opinion to matter, because those are the only two options.

Seriously this fight is like asking: "Who would a fight between you and a stronger, faster, better version of you who never tires?"... and some schmuck is saying "I think normal me would win!"

Go get a MRI or a CT Scan because something is wrong.

Pretty much........


this fight comes down to one easy question.......

What advantage does BT bring to this fight that affords him the win.....

No wait,
What advantage does BT bring to this fight AT ALL?!



Because.... and this might just be me... I don't think "he's got a cape" is going to cut it.

Originally posted by jinzin
Pretty much........


this fight comes down to one easy question.......

What advantage does BT bring to this fight that affords him the win.....

No wait,
What advantage does BT bring to this fight AT ALL?!



Because.... and this might just be me... I don't think "he's got a cape" is going to cut it.

Sometimes he wears a scary tiger mask?

Pretty funny thread. I dont even particularly like Batman and I have over 200 of his books. Can I be an authority too?

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Turner is one of DC's top tier MA's as Rogers is one of Marvel's top tier MA's.. that being said and my vast knowledge of both even with SSS Rogers still will lose to Turner, possibly not by much as I believe this to be a close and very good match..

Ditto. Ben is easily regarded as one of the best MA in comics, period.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
3-5 minutes of the fight being even, not a 3-5 minute fight. After 3-5 minutes Caps edge just grows incrementally larger until he wins. Remeber these fighters don't circle each other and throw outside jabs while looking for a take down, no, they go full bore slugfest non stop. Unless Cap allows Ben to set the pace of the fight, Ben won't be able to keep up with the pace Cap will set for more than 3-5 minutes before his reactions start to slow down.

How on earth did you manage to work that out? Did you get Cap and BT in a lab?

There's nothing wrong with me for thinking that Bronze Tiger could beat Steve... This fight is closer than many would believe. It's not trolling to say that Bronze Tiger is a more skilled martial artist. My reason behind that is because Steve didn't have to put as much time in gaining the body that he has. Yes Steve is stronger, maybe faster, and nearly as skilled. But I won't say he's better just because he has better stats.

srankmissingnin, you say that "this fight is like asking: "Who would win a fight between you and a stronger, faster, better version of you who never tires?"... and some schmuck is saying "I think normal me would win!"

Normal? Normal as in your average everyday human male? Bronze Tiger isn't some "normal" guy. And Steve's advantages are not leaps and bounds past peak humans. Steve is peak human himself with limitless endurance. The difference is that the SSS pushes the body to the absolute limits. No human could archive limitless stamina, fast healing or retarded aging through training.

But some how Jinzin calls it buffoonery to make a list with other martial artist with abilities of their own to fight against Steve h2h. Sure Bronze Tiger doesn't have an HF, chi manipulation, or telepathy. But considering that he's taken on other beings with superhuman stats. It's probable that it's due to his superior fighting prowess and intensive training.

Poster have even gone far as to down play Deathstroke. Claiming that Winter Green and Addie were supposed to be more skilled than he. When in fact Addie pointed out that Slade is the best fighting solider she has ever seen. And Winter Green writes in his journal all the time about how good Slade is and the respect he has for him. But some how those two are better. And Slade is a superb combatant. It takes more than just stats to archive what he has.

And accusations of Slade being weaken doesn't take nothing away from Bronze Tiger in their fight at all. Because Slade has shown to be very efficient even when he was depowered.

And for the record srankmissingnin, Bruce did begin his training before he was 12 years old. When his parents were killed not long after that. Bruce start training in calisthenics and studying various subjects. In Batman #0 he is seen doing 77 one arm push ups. At the age of 12, Bruce started weight lifting, and it was sometime after when he left Gotham for further training. He was 25 (or he had just turned 25) when he returned and it was 12 years. He's was 28 when he first met Dick Grayson. And now Bruce is in his 40's. So yeah I do know how long he has trained and other facts as well.

^ I actually don't blame you for thinking that BT can beat Steve. I don't agree with your opinion but it seems to me that some of the arguments being made for Cap are highly biased.

You could certainly argue that BT > Batman and I'm pretty sure Batman wouldn't lose 10/10 to Steve.

There are insane amounts of bias and lowballing in this thread. All of a sudden Deathstroke aint shit.

There's definitely nothing wrong with Tiger beating Steve he'll beat him probably 1 out of 50. If he's luck and Steve having a bad day........

he he he(now I'm being a cap fan boy) he he he he

On a serious note Tige wins the minority for sure as I'm glad the majority are in the know of who wins.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Slade is a piss pour fighter. Both Winter Green and Addie were supposed to be more skilled than he was in their prime, and neither of them is Batman.



Oh I see so DS aint shit now? When did this happen? Like I said hes beaten Batman three times. Please don't argue that DS didn't beat him here.

http://s915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/?action=view&current=Detective710-05.jpg

Don't do it.


Originally posted by tkitna
Anybody else look at these scans and feel that Slade wasnt really threatened at all by Bronze Tiger?

Didnt you see the bit where BT hurt him with a kick and DS had to pull a knife?

Originally posted by Deadline
Oh I see so DS aint shit now? When did this happen? Like I said hes beaten Batman three times. Please don't argue that DS didn't beat him here.

http://s915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/?action=view&current=Detective710-05.jpg

Don't do it.




Didnt you see the bit where BT hurt him with a kick and DS had to pull a knife?

Or that fact that Slade hit Tiger with some hard shots and Tiger didn't even go down. He landed right back on his feet and got right back on the attack. If Slade was weaken in that fight. How weak do people think he was? Imo a weaken Deathstroke is still far more powerful than Bronze Tiger.

I'm too lazy to read through this thread. Are people actually debating Bronze Tiger beating Rogers? I really hope not.

Roger's has the clear stat advantage -in particular when it comes to stamina- and is on a level I've never seen Bronze Tiger surpass or even reach in regards to hand to hand skill.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
If Slade was weaken in that fight. How weak do people think he was?

I think its the bit where BT says DS is hurt, but people seem to be missing the fact that BT kicked him there earlier on. facepalm


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm too lazy to read through this thread. Are people actually debating Bronze Tiger beating Rogers? I really hope not.

Roger's has the clear stat advantage -in particular when it comes to stamina- and is on a level I've never seen Bronze Tiger surpass or even reach in regards to hand to hand skill.

Hes beaten Batman, done well against Deathstroke? I'm not arguing for the majority but he can get least 2/10. Some people are arguing he won't get any, absurd.

Originally posted by Deadline
I think its the bit where BT says DS is hurt, but people seem to be missing the fact that BT kicked him there earlier on. facepalm




Hes beaten Batman, done well against Deathstroke? I'm not arguing for the majority but he can get least 2/10. Some people are arguing he won't get any, absurd.

2/10 is really no different from what the other are saying though. Imo 2/10 it is a very low percentage for someone of Bronze Tiger's skill range. Batman (Bruce) could archive more than that against Steve.

I think he could get more than 2/10, maybe as much as 4/10, but Steve does take the majority due to stats.

Originally posted by Q99
I think he could get more than 2/10, maybe as much as 4/10, but Steve does take the majority due to stats.

That's very reasonable. I personally can go with either man wining the majority. I'd even give it 5/10 split. My problem is with poster who ride Steve Rogers into the ground. It's very annoying

Originally posted by Marvelknight
2/10 is really no different from what the other are saying though. Imo 2/10 it is a very low percentage for someone of Bronze Tiger's skill range. Batman (Bruce) could archive more than that against Steve.

People are arguing he doesn't get any wins and will be ****ed after 3-5mins, that sux. You're kinda missing my point I could argue that BT could lose 10/10, not because he sux but because Cap has more stamina. Every single fight that they have will go the distance but because Cap has more stamina he will win eventually.

However you could even argue that BT could win 6/10 he did well against Deathstroke who is similar to Cap and it doesnt matter wether DS is enhanced BT is skilled enough to put him down before stamina becomes a serious issue.

Originally posted by Deadline
People are arguing he doesn't get any wins and will be ****ed after 3-5mins, that sux. You're kinda missing my point I could argue that BT could lose 10/10, not because he sux but because Cap has more stamina. Every single fight that they have will go the distance but because Cap has more stamina he will win eventually.

However you could even argue that BT could win 6/10 he did well against Deathstroke who is similar to Cap and it doesnt matter wether DS is enhanced BT is skilled enough to put him down before stamina becomes a serious issue.

That's true. It's a matter of opinion and one own perspective.

And don't get me wrong, Captain America should get all the respect in the world. But man I've never had to deal with this level of underestimating one character in favor for another.

If I came and said Batman or anyone could beat Steve 10/10. They would've nailed me to the cross (if I let them).

I think you are completely off you rocker.

Look at all of the Daredevil vs Punisher fights that have taken place over the years. Matt out classes Punisher in almost every way, yet their fights are some of the best, most even fights in comics. Easily the best representation fights between two heroes, because unlike most of the rest they are often going full bore and trying to but the other down for the 10 count. DD is stronger, he is faster and he is more skilled... but Punisher still goes the distance. Every. Single. Time. Why? Because Frank's stamina and damage soak are better than Daredevils. Considerably better. Cap is stronger/faster/more skilled than Turner AND he has much better damage soak / stamina. Open your eyes. This is a non fight.