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Both Avengers enemy is at their peaks. Ultron at his peak showing along with gravitron.

Can WM capture someone without a soul such as Ultron with her lasso?

Graviton was strong enough to slam down thor at the bottom of the ocean, so im sure he could do it to superman or WW

Well, I don't know much about Graviton, Ultron at his peak (I'm thinking non-Phalanx, Phalanx solos), can at least hang against the team and maybe defeat Diana with encephalo ray.

Originally posted by chomperx9
Graviton was strong enough to slam down thor at the bottom of the ocean, so im sure he could do it to superman or WW

That's the cartoon version who was much weaker than his comic counterpart. You really should ya know.....read comics.

On panel Graviton or Ultron are strong enough to solo standard Supes/Wondy.

Team 1. Two teamfighters vs two high heralds goes to the team fighters.

Originally posted by Bentley
Can WM capture someone without a soul such as Ultron with her lasso?

She can wrap him up and he'll be physically restrained by the unbreakableness but I think he stands a good chance of being able to still shoot and such.


Hm, you know it's really odd that I don't think I've seen that question answered on page. Nor do I know how it works with androids that have souls (and it wouldn't surprise me if Ultron does. Red Tornado does, I'd be absolutely amazed if Vision and Victor and Jocasta didn't).

Originally posted by Q99
Team 1. Two teamfighters vs two high heralds goes to the team fighters.



She can wrap him up and he'll be physically restrained by the unbreakableness but I think he stands a good chance of being able to still shoot and such.


Hm, you know it's really odd that I don't think I've seen that question answered on page. Nor do I know how it works with androids that have souls (and it wouldn't surprise me if Ultron does. Red Tornado does, I'd be absolutely amazed if Vision and Victor and Jocasta didn't).

It has been addressed several different times (though my comics are in storage, so I don't have ready access to them right this minute): the lasso's mystical subdual/truth revelation doesn't work against properly "inanimate" constructs, such as androids, robots, golems without proper souls, the body of someone who is dead (hence, how the Cheetah was able to steal the lasso back in the late 80's when Diana had trussed up token-flunky #7 -- by killing him, and thus being able to free the lasso from his body), and similar. Tangently, it also has power against the "semi-souless", in many instances, though the effect is often destructive, and Diana uses it only if absolutely necessary (such as when she destroyed all the "undead" beings Black-Lantern Maxwell Lord summoned against her, via the lasso's power).

But against the likes of Ultron, it is doubtful it would be effective; it could still bind/restrain it, but unless otherwise prevented from doing so could still fire weapons, attempt to move, etc...

This VS. doesn't look good for SM/WW, unless some major BFR of some sort is employed, or SM really goes for broke and pulls some ultra-stompage out of his ass... Not sure what spread I'd give, though... Potentially, speedblitzing makes for wins against Graviton, but still...

EDIT: oh, but to further clarify: *if* an android, golem, et al, were in possession of a "proper" soul (and we won't get into what, exactly, that classifies as -- I doubt even the writers would want to delve too far into that), then the lasso would work. As an additional sidenote, that also implies that the lasso could be used as a sort of "realness" detector for such beings (for example: Data, from Star Trek, would likely have been unaffected early on in the series... but by the end? And during the movies after his emotion chip/what-have-you? Murky territory, indeed...)

Ultron would prove difficult enough to stop, but I think peak (Thunderbolts level) Graviton alone would put down Supes and WW quite handily. Unless like said in post above, Superman pulls out one of his almighty "earth/universe will be destroyed if I fail" type showings.

Yeah, given the situation on the lasso I think Ultron and Graviton can win this handily, I don't know how much of a speedster is Graviton but I see Ultron taking either one by himself.

Originally posted by KingD19
That's the cartoon version who was much weaker than his comic counterpart. You really should ya know.....read comics.

On panel Graviton or Ultron are strong enough to solo standard Supes/Wondy. if Cartoon version is much weaker than comic version than comic version should be capable of doing it as well and easier

Originally posted by chomperx9
if Cartoon version is much weaker than comic version than comic version should be capable of doing it as well and easier

That goes without saying. What I was saying is you're using feats from the cartoon who pales in comparison to the comic version. That's like bringing up the Superman animated series when he had trouble lifting a semi once, when there's versions who busted a moon, etc...

On top of that, this is the comic vs forum, no point in using cartoons.

Originally posted by KingD19
That goes without saying. What I was saying is you're using feats from the cartoon who pales in comparison to the comic version. That's like bringing up the Superman animated series when he had trouble lifting a semi once, when there's versions who busted a moon, etc...

On top of that, this is the comic vs forum, no point in using cartoons. animated superman was a disgrace to comic superman

Ultron is immune to WW's lasso and tiara and Gravitron gravitates the two so it's a win for team 1.

And Diana aint touching Gravitron either.

graviton would certainly be the problem. he could pin diana and ultron could polish her off. graviton could also effectively negate the superspeed advantage unless you get down to the whole--supes reacts and moves faster than graviton's ability to think about increasing the gravity in his area. not sure supes couldn't overcome his control with one of those 'superman moments', but i think if ultron takes out a gravity held diana, the 2 could take out superman eventually. i think kal takes either 1on1, but if they beat diana, he's in a lot of trouble....

i guess one scenario might have kal and ww just fly off. supes could get out of range and shockwave. that might stun graviton and allow a blast of hv to kill him off. don't think his gravity shields would stop the sound of the shockwave. meh. maybe.

Originally posted by leonidas
graviton would certainly be the problem. he could pin diana and ultron could polish her off. heh

Originally posted by Mindset
heh

heh-heh.

Probably team 1. Graviton can probably do it himself.

I think Supes has the best chances of facing either by himself, but his matchup against Ultron isn't the best, he can physically tank him and keep fighting, match his speed and mentally strain him. Ultron is even better against Wondy who has every disadvantage Kal has then some.

Team 1 easy. Either of them has a great chance of taking this alone in my opinion.

Originally posted by Bentley
I think Supes has the best chances of facing either by himself, but his matchup against Ultron isn't the best, he can physically tank him and keep fighting, match his speed and mentally strain him. Ultron is even better against Wondy who has every disadvantage Kal has then some.


I don't see Superman really taking either honestly.

And of course, the problem is in dealing with them at the same time- both Supes and Wondy will be under intense gravity and blasted heavily by Ultron since both can handle multiple targets.

Graviton will be effectivly useless against Superman, as he's taken trips inside black holes and shrugged it off.

Team 2 destroys.

Originally posted by chomperx9
Graviton was strong enough to slam down thor at the bottom of the ocean, so im sure he could do it to superman or WW

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/thorvsgraviton.jpg?t=1295206951

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/thorvsgraviton2.jpg?t=1295207011

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/thorvsgraviton3.jpg?t=1295207088

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/thorvsgraviton4.jpg?t=1295207106

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/thorvsgraviton5.jpg?t=1295207120

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/thorvsgraviton6.jpg?t=1295207137

Can Superman use a syringe of sodium pentathol? If so, team two wins.

Haha, actually now Graviton learned to make his skin thougher so he cannot be pierced by needles! (Not kidding, it's mentioned in Iron Man v4)

Either of these guys wrecks the avengers on their own. Team 1 stomps.