Spidey and Pals versus Mutants

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Rogue Jedi
Two teams:

TEAM SPIDEY:


Spider Man (from SM3)
Both Goblins (Harry and Norman, no flesh eating bullshit bombs, but they have their gliders and the rest of their weapons.)
Doc Ock
Sandman
Venom






TEAM X MEN:

Wolverine
Storm
Colossus
Pyro
Iceman
Cyclops




All out battle to the death on Alcatraz island, at night.




Who wins? No prep, and neither side has knowledge of the others abilities.

dadudemon
Team Spidey wins specifically because of Sandman. There's really no way to kill him.



Take out Sandman and Cyclops solos. The symbiote is weak to heat (and Cyke's blasts in Wolverine Origins had a heat element to them). Also, Cyke's optic blast should punch right through Eddie and the Symbiote, quickly taking that character out.

Additionally, Cyke should be able to take out every single character, by himself because he can shoot right were he sees.


Anyway, Team Spidey wins specifically because of Sandman.

the ninjak
Sandman would have a hard time with Storm.

If She creates storms and hurricanes around him, drenching him with water and Iceman freezes him out he's done for.

dadudemon
Originally posted by the ninjak
Sandman would have a hard time with Storm.

If She creates storms and hurricanes around him, drenching him with water and Iceman freezes him out he's done for.

Until it melts. He cannot die.

the ninjak
yeah but he would be out of the fight. xmen train together everyday for all kinds of scernarios.

Team spidey would have no teamwork.

Sandman on Alzatraz Island? LOL Storm blows him into the water Bobby Freezes all of it.

Rogue Jedi
This is not a fight to the death. Incapacitation can be a win.

Robtard
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This is not a fight to the death. Incapacitation can be a win.

Team one then, easy.

Sandman can choke-out all, Storm is the only one that could likely pose a treat to him, but there's two flying Goblins to take her out.

Rogue Jedi
Pretty sure Iceman and Pyro can handle the Gobby's.

Robtard
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Pretty sure Iceman and Pyro can handle the Gobby's.

They're flying, arguably have more range, can take a shit-load of damage and they're fast/agile. Those two aren't much of a match, imo.

Rogue Jedi
Well, in X3, in the war room, Bobby was nailing flying debris that was on fire. And Pyro, on Alcatraz, he was bullseyeing those flying cars many at a time.

RE: Blaxican
Unless stated in the OP I'm pretty sure incapacitation is the default "victory" objective in a vs. thread, not death, so Bobby or Storm could handle Sandman.

..honestly, not sure why Storm couldn't solo? She can summon lightning in a few seconds, ala X2, and none of the characters on team 1 have the reflexes necessary to avoid that, besides maybe Peter.

edit-

Aside from the gay ass music, this video shows a lot of the stuff she could do that would **** up pretty much anything on team 1.

Robtard
There's shit-loads of terrain on Alcatraz for Sandman to draw from, doubt Iceman could freeze him fast enough before he's choked out via sandstorm.

He could very well become the giant at the end of SM3.

Good point on the lightning, I was thinking of her slow summoning in X1 when she fried toad.

BruceSkywalker
team one..


but really Sandman or even Spidey could conceivably solo

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Unless stated in the OP I'm pretty sure incapacitation is the default "victory" objective in a vs. thread, not death, so Bobby or Storm could handle Sandman.

..honestly, not sure why Storm couldn't solo? She can summon lightning in a few seconds, ala X2, and none of the characters on team 1 have the reflexes necessary to avoid that, besides maybe Peter.

edit-

Aside from the gay ass music, this video shows a lot of the stuff she could do that would **** up pretty much anything on team 1. thumb up

the ninjak
Smack on head!

General_Iroh
Yeah Sandman isn't really invincible at all. Cyclops would annihilate him if you are saying his optics are heat based like in Origins. Super heat sandman and turn him to glass. End story: Team Spidey gets raped. Pyro wipes out Venom or Cyclops either way he's going down quick. And being in the air against storm is going to ruin the Goblins' day. Doc Ock should put up a decent fight but it's only a matter of time before Wolverine or someone else gets close enough to kill him and then there's spider-man who even if he could beat everyone else couldn't do shit to Colossus and will in time go down with the rest of his team.

Robtard
Optic blast would just punch holes in Sandman, which he can easily recover from.

Webbing would also take Cyclops out of the fight, iirc, he needs to raise hand to visor in order to blast.

Placidity
Any one with only human durability gets torn apart at the start by rockets, grenades, gun fire, and razor bats.

Pretty easy to clean up the rest.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Robtard
Optic blast would just punch holes in Sandman, which he can easily recover from.

Webbing would also take Cyclops out of the fight, iirc, he needs to raise hand to visor in order to blast. Storm will handle SM just fine.

Cyclops is an emo ***.

chomperx9
x-men win. Cylops blasts the goblins in the air, storm makes a tornado for sandman.

after they are taken out, then the team can handle venom and spiderman fine.

Rogue Jedi
And the others?

chomperx9
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And the others? x-men handle the others fine after storm taking out sandman and Cyclops blasting the goblins in the air.

Then they regroup and take on parker and venom, while logan slices off ottos tentacles

Rogue Jedi
People always discount Iceman and Pyro.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
People always discount Iceman and Pyro.

It's because sales associates think the prices were too high to begin with.

the ninjak
Originally posted by chomperx9
x-men handle the others fine after storm taking out sandman and Cyclops blasting the goblins in the air.

Then they regroup and take on parker and venom, while logan slices off ottos tentacles

Thank God some help.
Considering they're on an Island Storm's hurricaning Sandman into to water + Iceman = auto win.

Robtard
Doc Ock doesn't only have decent reach with his tentacles, they move at great speeds too.

Spider-man & Venom, both fast, agile and have range with webbing. Which can easily take Cyclops and Wolverine out of the fight early.

I guess I'd come down to who targeted who first. I still see team one having the edge overall.

the ninjak
Doc is a non-factor. Pyro can incinerate him. Iceman freeze him. Storm Lightning Bolt. Scott beam.

All while Colossus running at Doc Ock early battle.

Pyro in the movie blew up stores during the protest....a feat better than his comic counterpart.

Robtard
Except of course Ock's tentacles had a long reach, move a lot faster than those you mentioned (arguably not Cyclop's beam) and they'd kill all on team 2 with the exception of Wolverine and Colossus in one hit. Doc is a factor, he can kill 4 out of 6.

Edit: How strong was Colossos in the film anyways? Ock's tentacles ripped a bank vault door in two. He may well likely strong enough to keep Colussus pinned down with 2 or his 4 tentacles.

Pyro's fire goes out via Sandman; he's one ****ed little emo. While he has a lot of offense, his defense is that of a skinny human teen, no?

the ninjak
Depends on the State Sandman is in big or small.

Storm hits the air and creates a hurricane that excludes her team. She can do it ala the end of Xmen 2 in the president's office. She can locate them.

The spidermen get gusted up due to lack of buildings....just an island fort. And the Goblins get thrown off their fliers. With added support from Cyclops' constant beams.

Sandman tries to grow big but gets blown into to sea. Where Iceman freezes the entire area. Sandman out.

Doc Ock uses his tentacles to grab to ground and make his way to the Xmen but Pyro simply blows him up.

While the Goblins order their gliders to return to them while they fly outside of Storm's hurricane's influence Colossus is already in the their turf. Ready to break them. The Spidermen web him up but by now the rest of the team are in. Casualties ensue.

The Spidermen avoid all damage with their Spider senses and make a hasty retreat form the now doomed Goblins.

Now it's the Xmen VS Spiderman and Venom. And with no high ground they are forced to enter Alkatraz or circle the area for an advantage.

Storm is still in the air blasting lightning bolts and localised hurricanes.

Either way Xmen win this.

Robtard
Not sure Storm can summon a hurricane that fast. She's also an easy target for either Goblin and their weapons. She could just as easily die 5 seconds into the fight from a single hit when taking to the air.

Seems you're banking the entire fight on Storm carrying her team, when she's an easy target for both Goblins and possibly Spider-man, Venom and Doc Ock with their varying degrees of ranged attacks.

the ninjak
Storm activated her hurricane abilities instantly against the President and Toad in the films. Even Indoors!

Toads tongue grounding him couldn't handle the onslaught.

Goblins on Gliders and Spidermen will go flying. And they don't have buildings to protect them or gain strategic ground.

Plus she is blasting lightning at them. Plus Cyclops just looking at them with pinpoint accuracy.

Missiles? Pyro and Iceman negate them.

What happens to a toad in a thunderstorm?

They all get blasted. All Storm needs to do is see them. And the lightning strikes with pinpoint accuracy. Just like how she hit Toad's tongue. Which was 2 inches thick.

With no knowledge of each others abilities.
And Logan and Colossus running full pelt at the Spiderteam.
The Spiderteam will aim at them first. Not the woman floating in the background.

For arguments sakes Iceman can even form an Ice shield around Storm early.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Robtard
Except of course Ock's tentacles had a long reach, move a lot faster than those you mentioned (arguably not Cyclop's beam) and they'd kill all on team 2 with the exception of Wolverine and Colossus in one hit. Doc is a factor, he can kill 4 out of 6.

Edit: How strong was Colossos in the film anyways? Ock's tentacles ripped a bank vault door in two. He may well likely strong enough to keep Colussus pinned down with 2 or his 4 tentacles.

Pyro's fire goes out via Sandman; he's one ****ed little emo. While he has a lot of offense, his defense is that of a skinny human teen, no?


Piotr only strength feats from the movies include him carrying a tv with one hand and throwing Logan (I believe it was him throwing Logan) towards Magneto in X3

RE: Blaxican
Doc Ock is also a fat, overweight dude who will get immediately blasted away before he could even get his tentacles in the necessary range to tag anyone.

The Nuul
Fire + sand = glass.

KingD19
Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Piotr only strength feats from the movies include him carrying a tv with one hand and throwing Logan (I believe it was him throwing Logan) towards Magneto in X3

In X2, Colossus armored up in about 2-3 seconds, tanked bullets with nothing more than confusion at why the guys were shooting him, then tossed several of them through a wall at the same time with enough force to splinter the wood.

He threw Wolverine a good few hundred feet to cut off that Sentinel's head, and was durable enough to have a cop car land on and bounce off his head with no problems.

And he threw him another few hundred feet to get at Magneto.

Nothing the Spidey crew can do will hurt him, and he's strong enough to hurt them.

Robtard
Originally posted by The Nuul
Fire + sand = glass.
Sand turns into glass at around 4K degrees Fahrenheit , not sure if Pyro has that in him. Zippos burn hot and all, but.

Robtard
Originally posted by KingD19


Nothing the Spidey crew can do will hurt him, and he's strong enough to hurt them.

He still needs to breath, right? That's his weakness. That and being one of the slowest here.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by KingD19
In X2, Colossus armored up in about 2-3 seconds, tanked bullets with nothing more than confusion at why the guys were shooting him, then tossed several of them through a wall at the same time with enough force to splinter the wood.

He threw Wolverine a good few hundred feet to cut off that Sentinel's head, and was durable enough to have a cop car land on and bounce off his head with no problems.

And he threw him another few hundred feet to get at Magneto.

Nothing the Spidey crew can do will hurt him, and he's strong enough to hurt them.

like rob said he still has to breathe.. Brock or Parker can certainly keep him at bay using webbing and both are most likely faster than him and also "spider sense" dictates to both what Piotr will be doing

The Nuul
Originally posted by Robtard
Sand turns into glass at around 4K degrees Fahrenheit , not sure if Pyro has that in him. Zippos burn hot and all, but.

Storms lighting could @ 54,000° Fahrenheit.

KingD19
No, Colossus doesn't need to breathe. Not in the comics, and since it wasn't brought up in the movies, it's safe to assume they kept him close enough to his comic counterpart that it applies there as well.

Robtard
Originally posted by KingD19
No, Colossus doesn't need to breathe. Not in the comics, and since it wasn't brought up in the movies, it's safe to assume they kept him close enough to his comic counterpart that it applies there as well.

I know in the comics he doesn't, or at least he's been shown to survive underwater without breathing.

But in the film, wasn't his chest moving in a breathing fashion while transformed?

Robtard
Originally posted by The Nuul
Storms lighting could @ 54,000° Fahrenheit.

This is true, but likely in smallish patches at a time and there's terrain from where he can draw from and replenish/grow. Her best bet would be to try and blow his ass into millions/billions of pieces.

Placidity
Colossus nor anyone else will be able to free themselves from webbing.

Storm gets wiped out by bombs, bullets, missiles, impalement or decapitation.

Cyclops does have a shot at the Osborn's, but its not like he can just stand there and take his time, the rest of the Spidey's ground forces will be advancing very quickly, Spidey and Venom will be amongst them in literally one leap, and body parts will go flying.

Team X-men are simply too fragile or slow, Spidey and his Pals slaughter them.

RE: Blaxican
That type of logic can be used for either side.

Osbornes will easily get taken out by Cyclops, who literally only needs to stare at them and they will die.

Storm can summon a tornado in seconds that could annihilate the whole team.

etc etc.

Placidity
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican


Storm can summon a tornado in seconds that could annihilate the whole team.

etc etc.

How far do they start apart? Must be pretty damn far. The tornado would suck in her own team too.

Darth Martin
Storm is too powerful. Watch X2.

Placidity
Originally posted by Darth Martin
Storm is too powerful. Watch X2.

I've seen all the X-men movie plenty of times, I'm very familiar with all of them. I would think my sig should've hinted that stick out tongue

But you should watch X-men one though when she got bitched around by Toad (yes yes, I'm omitting the latter half of the fight).

RE: Blaxican
Originally posted by Placidity
How far do they start apart? Must be pretty damn far. The tornado would suck in her own team too. Considering that the X-Jet was flying between them at nearly the same distance jet fighters that got sucked up were, I'm assuming that she can control the tornadoes so they're discriminatory.

Robtard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLJQBFYrs1A&feature=related

She is pretty damn powerful, not sure about summoning tornadoes or wind-storms instantly or in a second, but she can cast lightning quickly.

Placidity
Her lightning (the ones from her hands) can't down Venom or Spidey I suspect (yes i've seen her feats).

Anyway, is this whole battle tipped on whether Storm can wipe out team Spidey at the get go with a tornado? May as well be Storm vs Spidey n Friends.

Cause she's as good as dead if she doesn't do that (or can't), as are the rest of the team.

Robtard
I've said as much, team 2 relies on Storm carrying her team as far as I can tell from the pro team 2 argument.

I don't see that happening.

RE: Blaxican
I think she or even Cyclops can solo, actually. THough, Cyclops has to use his powers intelligently.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Considering that the X-Jet was flying between them at nearly the same distance jet fighters that got sucked up were, I'm assuming that she can control the tornadoes so they're discriminatory. Indeed.

Robtard
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I think she or even Cyclops can solo, actually. THough, Cyclops has to use his powers intelligently.

While Cyclops has perfect aim, he's not hitting Spider-man and likely not Venom before they **** his shit up.

Also depends which eye-beam we're using, X1-2, it was just concussive, not sure that would kill either of them.

the ninjak
He can take his visor off and let it rip.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Robtard
While Cyclops has perfect aim, he's not hitting Spider-man and likely not Venom before they **** his shit up.

Also depends which eye-beam we're using, X1-2, it was just concussive, not sure that would kill either of them. Worked pretty well on the roof of the train depot.

Robtard
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Worked pretty well on the roof of the train depot.

Indeed, smashed the shit out of that roof and in X2, he sent a Humvee tumbling back. His beam packs a serious punch, no doubt.

But Spider-man has massive damage-soak to blunt force trauma.

General_Iroh
Originally posted by Robtard
Indeed, smashed the shit out of that roof and in X2, he sent a Humvee tumbling back. His beam packs a serious punch, no doubt.

But Spider-man has massive damage-soak to blunt force trauma.
True but since he has inconsistent optic blasts I figured that we could use either since it wasn't specified in the OP

In any case I just don't see team spidey winning, since webbing so far is the best bet for them to win. And Venom isn't doing jack shit to Pyro, Spider-man is the team's best bet and I think enough x-men will be standing so that it won't matter.

Robtard
Webbing the best chance? Na.

And bombs, missiles, those little hunter-seeker devices (Harry) and I think when Norman was first showing the glider to his investors, it showed machine-guns.

Venom has a healing-factor of sorts, as shown.

Sandman can become the ground and surprise attack (if they don't start right in front of each other).

General_Iroh
The Osborne's will be out of the air at the beginning of the fight, Cyclops won't let them go far. And Venom's healing factor isn't doing shit when he's getting lit up

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Robtard
Indeed, smashed the shit out of that roof and in X2, he sent a Humvee tumbling back. His beam packs a serious punch, no doubt.

But Spider-man has massive damage-soak to blunt force trauma. And in Origins he sliced right through the school. Pretty sure it'd slice Spidey in two.

Robtard
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And in Origins he sliced right through the school. Pretty sure it'd slice Spidey in two.

Origins didn't follow what was set up by X-Men 1-3, Cyclops gained heat, Wolverine got holes in his head. It was a shit film.

But yeah, using Origins, those beams would likely kill Spider-man, if they were able to hit.

Rogue Jedi
High end feats I suppose?

Placidity
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
High end feats I suppose?

Hmm not exactly, his abilities actually changed, so I wouldn't call it that. The concussive power is about the same though, still shattering concrete walls with ease.

Rogue Jedi
Still enough to put Spidey down.

Placidity
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Still enough to put Spidey down.

Debatable. Grenade to the face, no lasting effect.

IF he puts Spidey down (cause I thought he would be trying to take TWO Goblins down), Venom would rip him apart the next second.

Also, I doubt Spidey would stay down for long.

Without Storm, theres not much of a debate to be had.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Placidity
Debatable. Grenade to the face, no lasting effect.

IF he puts Spidey down (cause I thought he would be trying to take TWO Goblins down), Venom would rip him apart the next second.

Also, I doubt Spidey would stay down for long.

Without Storm, theres not much of a debate to be had. Dude, did you see what he did to the roof of the train station? That'd cut Spidey in half, man.

Placidity
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, did you see what he did to the roof of the train station? That'd cut Spidey in half, man.

I'm aware of that feat. It's not even his most impressive so I'm wondering why you pointed that one out. His blast took mainly took out windows and the metal frames housing it. As a result the surrounding concrete as well.

That blast would not have cut Spidey in half, not even close. A pumpkin bomb could have replicated that damage. I suggest you refamiliarize yourself with Spidey's durability feats.

Also note that that was his full power, unrestrained blast, since his visor was removed - something Cyclops in his normal, controlled state would not do.

Rogue Jedi
All out battle to the death on Alcatraz island, at night.


At the very least it'll knock Spidey on his ass, stunned. Wolvie steps in and administers the death blow.

dadudemon
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Unless stated in the OP I'm pretty sure incapacitation is the default "victory" objective in a vs. thread, not death, so Bobby or Storm could handle Sandman.


I finally have a rebuttal to this point you made.


Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
All out battle to the death on Alcatraz island, at night.





evillaugh



So, yeah, team sandman wins because there's no way to kill Sandman.


Thread should be closed, now, as there's no discussion to be had.

Rogue Jedi
Well, can Sandman be drowned?

Rogue Jedi
Tee hee, I altered the conditions of the fight a few posts in, according to MVF rules that is perfectly acceptable.





Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This is not a fight to the death. Incapacitation can be a win.


So....



Originally posted by the ninjak
Sandman would have a hard time with Storm.

If She creates storms and hurricanes around him, drenching him with water and Iceman freezes him out he's done for.


I think.

Placidity
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
All out battle to the death on Alcatraz island, at night.


At the very least it'll knock Spidey on his ass, stunned. Wolvie steps in and administers the death blow.

I like the scripting.

So is Cyclops shooting at the Goblins or at Spider-man, make a choice. Cause if he is shooting a Spidey, the Goblins will bomb the shit out of the X-men.

General_Iroh
Originally posted by dadudemon
I finally have a rebuttal to this point you made.








evillaugh



So, yeah, team sandman wins because there's no way to kill Sandman.


Thread should be closed, now, as there's no discussion to be had.
Cyclops, Storm, Iceman and Pyro can all probably take down sandman

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Placidity
I like the scripting.

So is Cyclops shooting at the Goblins or at Spider-man, make a choice. Cause if he is shooting a Spidey, the Goblins will bomb the shit out of the X-men. Forgetting Iceman and Pyro?

Placidity
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Forgetting Iceman and Pyro?

What about them?

They die fast.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Placidity
What about them?

They die fast.

Uh, I don't think so. They were spot on with their aim.

the ninjak
Originally posted by the ninjak
Depends on the State Sandman is in big or small.

Storm hits the air and creates a hurricane that excludes her team. She can do it ala the end of Xmen 2 in the president's office. She can locate them.

The spidermen get gusted up due to lack of buildings....just an island fort. And the Goblins get thrown off their fliers. With added support from Cyclops' constant beams.

Sandman tries to grow big but gets blown into to sea. Where Iceman freezes the entire area. Sandman out.

Doc Ock uses his tentacles to grab to ground and make his way to the Xmen but Pyro simply blows him up.

While the Goblins order their gliders to return to them while they fly outside of Storm's hurricane's influence Colossus is already in the their turf. Ready to break them. The Spidermen web him up but by now the rest of the team are in. Casualties ensue.

The Spidermen avoid all damage with their Spider senses and make a hasty retreat form the now doomed Goblins.

Now it's the Xmen VS Spiderman and Venom. And with no high ground they are forced to enter Alkatraz or circle the area for an advantage.

Storm is still in the air blasting lightning bolts and localised hurricanes.

Either way Xmen win this. Originally posted by the ninjak
Storm activated her hurricane abilities instantly against the President and Toad in the films. Even Indoors!

Toads tongue grounding him couldn't handle the onslaught.

Goblins on Gliders and Spidermen will go flying. And they don't have buildings to protect them or gain strategic ground.

Plus she is blasting lightning at them. Plus Cyclops just looking at them with pinpoint accuracy.

Missiles? Pyro and Iceman negate them.

What happens to a toad in a thunderstorm?

They all get blasted. All Storm needs to do is see them. And the lightning strikes with pinpoint accuracy. Just like how she hit Toad's tongue. Which was 2 inches thick.

With no knowledge of each others abilities.
And Logan and Colossus running full pelt at the Spiderteam.
The Spiderteam will aim at them first. Not the woman floating in the background.

For arguments sakes Iceman can even form an Ice shield around Storm early.

My posts cover all combatants. In a battlefield environ. Any missiles or worse shurikens aimed at Ororo get blocked by Iceman's shield or blown aside.
Ororo only needs to rise a metre or two create an instant wall of endless wind.

RE: Blaxican
Placidity's argument is confusing me. I mean Cyclops could literally kill both of the Goblins AND Otto faster than either of the Goblins' hands could make it to the goblin bombs at their waste. Half a second after that Peter would be under the same attack, only difference being that his spider sense would help him out.

Placidity
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Placidity's argument is confusing me. I mean Cyclops could literally kill both of the Goblins AND Otto faster than either of the Goblins' hands could make it to the goblin bombs at their waste. Half a second after that Peter would be under the same attack, only difference being that his spider sense would help him out.

The beam travels fast, but not so fast that the Goblins far in the air wouldn't have time to take evasive action. Cyclops take out all three in half a second? Don't think so.

Also, a one hit blast wouldn't kill the Goblins although they would be much less effective without their gliders. Closeup, they can still use bombs and bats.

As soon as the fight starts Spidey and Venom leap into the X-men group. So Cyclops will be busy, he ain't taking everyone out as you say.

Only chance Cyclops has of taking out many of these characters would be to focus his blast and continually leave it on that one person (except Ock, cause he is human durabilty, though not really). If he does a one-hit on Venom and expects to change targets quickly to take on someone else, he'll regret it soon after.

I think there should be another scenario - fight inside a warehouse. Venom/Spidey would wreck all of them. =p

RE: Blaxican
Originally posted by Placidity
The beam travels fast, but not so fast that the Goblins far in the air wouldn't have time to take evasive action. Cyclops take out all three in half a second? Don't think so.

If they're like 200 meters in the air, sure I guess. Is that how they're positioned?



Harry was instantly KO'd, to the point of having amnesia, from bouncing into a metal pipe.



Spidey and Venom aren't going to be able to ignore Logan, Colossus, Bobby, and Pyro in an attempt to focus fire Cyclops and Storm.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Placidity's argument is confusing me. I mean Cyclops could literally kill both of the Goblins AND Otto faster than either of the Goblins' hands could make it to the goblin bombs at their waste. Half a second after that Peter would be under the same attack, only difference being that his spider sense would help him out. Not to mention Iceman and Pyro pitching in.

the ninjak
Originally posted by Placidity
The beam travels fast, but not so fast that the Goblins far in the air wouldn't have time to take evasive action. Cyclops take out all three in half a second? Don't think so.

Also, a one hit blast wouldn't kill the Goblins although they would be much less effective without their gliders. Closeup, they can still use bombs and bats.

As soon as the fight starts Spidey and Venom leap into the X-men group. So Cyclops will be busy, he ain't taking everyone out as you say.

Only chance Cyclops has of taking out many of these characters would be to focus his blast and continually leave it on that one person (except Ock, cause he is human durabilty, though not really). If he does a one-hit on Venom and expects to change targets quickly to take on someone else, he'll regret it soon after.

I think there should be another scenario - fight inside a warehouse. Venom/Spidey would wreck all of them. =p

You do realise that Iceman can create an Ice Shield around his teammates for creative defence/offensive advantage.
He can do it in seconds.
Plus feats show he can enter Icemode. The goblins shuricans wont harm him.
Their bombs scattered in the wind while they are blown off the gliders. thanks to Storm activating her power in 2 secs at full force.

We have to understand also regardless of OP that although the combatants aren't FULLY aware of each others powers.
The SPideyteams members have all appeared on national TV showcasing their abilities.

The Xmen are blackops. SPiderman Octo and the Goblins and Sandman all appeared on TV.

Robtard
OP said neither team is aware, so that's how it is. Trying to give the lesser team the edge is lame.

the ninjak
Fair enough Iceman's Ice form and Ice shield for the team nullifies attacks favoring the Spider Team.

A team with no teamwork capability besides the Goblins.
And the Xmen with insane level of Teamwork forged in the Danger Room.

Robtard
Originally posted by the ninjak
Fair enough Iceman's Ice form and Ice shield for the team nullifies attacks favoring the Spider Team.

A team with no teamwork capability besides the Goblins.
And the Xmen with insane level of Teamwork forged in the Danger Room.

-Ice-wall isn't stopping the bombs or missiles; it'd likely be a death trap to those behind it. Spider-man, Venom, Doc Ock and likely Sandman would also just tear through it, considering their strength levels, though bombardment would be smarter.

-Ice-form, what did it show resisting? Cos even Doc Ock (potentially the weakest of Team 1) would just crush Bobby and his ice-skin to death, considering what he can do to bank vault doors.

So no, Bobby isn't some trump card, not even close.

Team-work does favor the X-Men, but Team 1 does have three geniuses; not hard to deduce that working together against the same foe is smart; doesn't take a genius to figure that out either.

Rogue Jedi
I was thinking more of Iceman and Pyro blasting the Goblins off their sleds.

General_Iroh
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I was thinking more of Iceman and Pyro blasting the Goblins off their sleds.
Either way the Goblins won't be on their gliders for more than thirty seconds. erm and as for Placidity's argument of spidey and venom jumping straight into the x-men that's about the dumbest thing they could do.

Rogue Jedi
Seems like Wolvie has no role here.

General_Iroh
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Seems like Wolvie has no role here.
I see him more or less going around and dealing the killing blows, but I don't think he's really all that needed otherwise, I guess he could occupy Doc Ock's time, but he can't really keep up with spider-man or venom's speed and he won't be able to do anything to sandman

Placidity
Originally posted by General_Iroh
Either way the Goblins won't be on their gliders for more than thirty seconds. erm and as for Placidity's argument of spidey and venom jumping straight into the x-men that's about the dumbest thing they could do.

They would rape them. Probably rape them with webbing while still in the air.

@ RJ

Wolverine is too slow to land a blow on Spidey or Venom. Wolvie loses to Ock. Wolvie can't do anything to Sandman. And Wolvie cant reach the Goblins.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Placidity
They would rape them. Probably rape them with webbing while still in the air.

@ RJ

Wolverine is too slow to land a blow on Spidey or Venom. Wolvie loses to Ock. Wolvie can't do anything to Sandman. And Wolvie cant reach the Goblins.

Wall of ice>>>>>>Webbing.


Wolvie'll be the one to stab Gobby's guts out as he THUDS on the ground.

Placidity
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wall of ice>>>>>>Webbing.


Sure. Is Iceman trapping himself and his team in an igloo or?

As Rob has already commented on, Iceman is not much of a factor.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Wolvie'll be the one to stab Gobby's guts out as he THUDS on the ground.

What?

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Placidity
Sure. Is Iceman trapping himself and his team in an igloo or?

As Rob has already commented on, Iceman is not much of a factor.



What?

Dude, one blast of ice and Gobby is gonna fall off his glider.


You heard me. THUD.

Placidity
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, one blast of ice and Gobby is gonna fall off his glider.


You heard me. THUD.

What exactly is Iceman's effective blast range?

Show that his blast has sufficient concussive force.

Also show that Iceman has the accuracy required to hit a fast moving object capable of evasive manueveres (icing up a missile with a linear trajectory does not count, not to mention he failed to stop it and would've hit him had not Kitty been there).

General_Iroh
Originally posted by Placidity
They would rape them. Probably rape them with webbing while still in the air.

@ RJ

Wolverine is too slow to land a blow on Spidey or Venom. Wolvie loses to Ock. Wolvie can't do anything to Sandman. And Wolvie cant reach the Goblins.
Yeah lets have them charge at the guy who can shoot flames out and burn them alive, their webbing is definitely going to go through a giant tunnel of fire. And maybe they'll get by them and get right into the middle of the group, that'd be good so then Colossus and Wolverine can have their way with them, after they've been frozen solid of course.

the ninjak
Iceman and Pyro were blasting stuff mid air in the Danger Room in X3.

Placidity
Originally posted by General_Iroh
Yeah lets have them charge at the guy who can shoot flames out and burn them alive, their webbing is definitely going to go through a giant tunnel of fire. And maybe they'll get by them and get right into the middle of the group, that'd be good so then Colossus and Wolverine can have their way with them, after they've been frozen solid of course.

Charge right in? When did you see them ever do that in the film?

They'll use their enhanced speed, agility, dexterity and skills to move through the group.

Here watch these two well-made tributes I found and hopefully you'll show Spider-man and his rogues some more respect.

BGj5cT7T_WQ

AwhabyXKoa4

And heres some evidence that Spider-man can get the drop on them no problem. =p

JgMomiaShes

Placidity
Originally posted by the ninjak
Iceman and Pyro were blasting stuff mid air in the Danger Room in X3.

Iceman blasted at a missile and failed to stop it.

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Look at how long he blasted at the missile, and he couldn't stop it, he slowed it down by a little so it just missed him.

If that was one of Goblin's rockets (he can't stop one let alone more), it would've detonated on impact.


And Pyro? He was never in the Danger Room.

Rogue Jedi
If Storm creates a big ass tornado, what makes you think the Gobby's will be able to stay on their sleds, or even control them?

Placidity
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If Storm creates a big ass tornado, what makes you think the Gobby's will be able to stay on their sleds, or even control them?

I never agreed that the Goblins couldn't fire their rockets at the X-men on go, nor did I agree that their team couldn't close the gap quickly so that Storm wouldn't summon a tornado onto her own team (which is probably why she DIDN'T summon a tornado in X3 on Alcatraz Island against the opposing mutants). Your question is based on a premise I never agreed to, so its invalid.

I mean seriously look at how easily Callisto (the Superspeed had nothing to do with it) got the drop on Storm. If it was Venom she would've been ripped apart there and then.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Placidity
I never agreed that the Goblins couldn't fire their rockets at the X-men on go, nor did I agree that their team couldn't close the gap quickly so that Storm wouldn't summon a tornado onto her own team (which is probably why she DIDN'T summon a tornado in X3 on Alcatraz Island against the opposing mutants). Your question is based on a premise I never agreed to, so its invalid.

I mean seriously look at how easily Callisto (the Superspeed had nothing to do with it) got the drop on Storm. If it was Venom she would've been ripped apart there and then.


Big ass tornado= Gobby's thudding to the ground.


Dude, Callisto was so fast she might as well have been rapid fire porting.

General_Iroh
Originally posted by Placidity
Charge right in? When did you see them ever do that in the film?

They'll use their enhanced speed, agility, dexterity and skills to move through the group.

Here watch these two well-made tributes I found and hopefully you'll show Spider-man and his rogues some more respect.

BGj5cT7T_WQ

AwhabyXKoa4

And heres some evidence that Spider-man can get the drop on them no problem. =p

JgMomiaShes
I have plenty of respect for Spider-man and his enemies, but I just don't think they can take down the x-men, not here anyway, maybe if it was in the city and spider-man and venom had more buildings and tighter spaces to fight in, but there's a lot of open space here and I think that is going to make Spidey and Venom a lot less useful.
Cyclops will be able to take down the gliders fast enough and Colssus can tank a missile if need be. Storm can absolutely annihilate sandman while Iceman and Pyro are holding off spidey, venom and Doc Ock. If by chance spidey or venom get in the middle of them Wolverine and Colossus can push them back.

RE: Blaxican
Why is this even being discussed? I thought it'd been established last page that unless the Goblins start off like a football field away from everyone else in the beginning of the fight they're a non-factor just like Sandman and Octavius?

Robtard
The hell? If these peeps are starting off close to each other, then the Goblins rain death on Team 2 with the exception of Colossus and Wolverine in the first 2 seconds of the fight. One pumpkin-bomb could kill a couple of the X-Men, or **** them up enough where they're out.

It's also telling how Norman had to be gimped of a weapon from the start. Team 1 > Team 2, really.

RE: Blaxican
Cyclops could stare at both Goblins faster than either of them can reach for and toss a pumpkin bomb. A single side to side glance would actually wipe out nearly everyone on team 1 faster than they could react, sans Spiderman and maybe Venom.

Robtard
Goblins have enhanced reaction-time and reflexes, yo.

Doc Ock's tentacles move at extremely fast speeds and they're controlled by the speed of his thoughts. No hand movements required.

Spider-man and Venom could both move and web his ass, arguably web his ass before he raised his hand to visor.

So no, Cyclops isn't a one-man army here.

RE: Blaxican
Originally posted by Robtard
Goblins have enhanced reaction-time and reflexes, yo.

Not enhanced enough.



Cyclop's beam is not a physical object, it's a stream of energy. Ergo: metal tentacles aren't going to stop it.



Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Spidey and Venom aren't going to be able to ignore Logan, Colossus, Bobby, and Pyro in an attempt to focus fire Cyclops and Storm.

Robtard
Cyclops isn't tagging both of them before raining death falls on team 2.

Not stop it, I was bringing up that in a close battle between Cyclops and Doc Ock, Ock might be able to impale Cyclops before Cyclops can fire. Ock has to think, Cyclops has to raise hand to visor, which is faster?

Spider-man and Venom in a close starting battle can web the shit out of Wolverine, Colossus, Bobby, Pyro and Storm before they can say "Go team!".

A close starting battle doesn't favor team 2.

RE: Blaxican
Originally posted by Robtard
Cyclops isn't tagging both of them before raining death falls on team 2.

He's tagging half their team in about a second, maybe two if he wants to really make sure they don't get up.

Probably Octavius. However,

Robtard
Is a close battle? Cyclops can't aim in a every direction. If he's going for the Goblins, then he's aiming up, he takes one and the other rains death.

I hit send by accident, before I finished typing. I responded to your statement.

Originally posted by Robtard
Spider-man and Venom in a close starting battle can web the shit out of Wolverine, Colossus, Bobby, Pyro and Storm before they can say "Go team!".

A close starting battle doesn't favor team 2.

RE: Blaxican
They can't do it faster than Cyclops could fire at them. They'd have to dodge the initial volley and by that point they'd also have to deal with Bobby and Ice Man. In the mean time, the Goblins and Otto will already be incapacitated.

Is a close battle? Cyclops can't aim in a every direction. If he's going for the Goblins, then he's aiming up, he takes one and the other rains death.

Depends on how far up they are. To repeat myself.. again (>__&gtwink, the Goblins survival depends entirely on where they're located.

Robtard
Do you not remember Spider-man's speed and reaction-time? The Flash fight, the fight with Ock on the train? The guy can contort himself while flying in the air as to squeeze through metal grates and web, no problem. Spider-man alone could man-handle most of team two in a close starting fight. Venom would tear open their assholes.

Close fight is death for Team 2. They need distance where Storm can start her storms, Cyclops can use his advantage of range, Colossus can toss Wolverine in some mad hope he'll do something etc.

0CO1v7NmhN4

Team 2 likley win if they had Nightcrawler, as is, not likely.

RE: Blaxican
Originally posted by Robtard
Do you not remember Spider-man's speed and reaction-time? The Flash fight, the fight with Ock on the train? The guy can contort himself while flying in the air as to squeeze through metal grates and web, no problem.

Have you not noticed the correlation there? The spidersense is a completely defense-orientated ability. That's why everything you just listed, and everything he does that shows great speed, involves some form of blocking or dodging. You never see Peter attacking with that same kind of speed and agility, though. Spidersense isn't going to help him speed blitz.

Robtard
He had no problem grabbing Flash's arm mid punch, while not an insanely high feat of strength, that video of his perception is telling of what he's bringing. We also do see him take out a bunch of guys with guns in SM1 with ease and he was holding back, or he would have broken them. Here he wouldn't be.

Besides, it's not Spider-man Vs Team 1. Just bringing up that in a close fight, his speed would **** shit up; Team 2 would likely kill each other trying to tag him. Cyclops got his ass handed to him by Yuriko in X2, right? She's not nearly as fast or agile as Spider-man.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by General_Iroh
I have plenty of respect for Spider-man and his enemies, but I just don't think they can take down the x-men, not here anyway, maybe if it was in the city and spider-man and venom had more buildings and tighter spaces to fight in, but there's a lot of open space here and I think that is going to make Spidey and Venom a lot less useful.
Cyclops will be able to take down the gliders fast enough and Colssus can tank a missile if need be. Storm can absolutely annihilate sandman while Iceman and Pyro are holding off spidey, venom and Doc Ock. If by chance spidey or venom get in the middle of them Wolverine and Colossus can push them back. Pretty much.

Placidity
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Big ass tornado= Gobby's thudding to the ground.


Dude, Callisto was so fast she might as well have been rapid fire porting.

Speed had nothing to do with her getting the drop on Storm like I said.

Placidity
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Why is this even being discussed? I thought it'd been established last page that unless the Goblins start off like a football field away from everyone else in the beginning of the fight they're a non-factor just like Sandman and Octavius?

Actually, if you think about it, on Alcatraz Island, the distance between the X-men and the enemy mutants was much closer than a football field. More like 50 meters or less.

Rogue Jedi
What are Storm's limits?

RE: Blaxican
Originally posted by Robtard
He had no problem grabbing Flash's arm mid punch, while not an insanely high feat of strength, that video of his perception is telling of what he's bringing. We also do see him take out a bunch of guys with guns in SM1 with ease and he was holding back, or he would have broken them. Here he wouldn't be.

Besides, it's not Spider-man Vs Team 1. Just bringing up that in a close fight, his speed would **** shit up; Team 2 would likely kill each other trying to tag him. Cyclops got his ass handed to him by Yuriko in X2, right? She's not nearly as fast or agile as Spider-man. Okay, I'm willing to lament that if Spiderman gets within 5 feet of Cyclops, he could beat him to the punch. Alternatively, if the Goblins are 300 feet out on top of their gliders with a pumpkin bomb already in hand, they could do some damage.

Anything in between those perimeters, though, and team Spidey gets shit stomped.

Rogue Jedi
Pretty much. I can't see them contending with a big ass tornado.

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