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Fights in some alley way.

Kingpin.

bruce barely hurts him (when he actually lands hits)

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
bruce barely hurts him (when he actually lands hits) actually ? U saying Kingpin is faster than bruce ?

kingpin's still fast, but classic landed hits on spidey and caused spidey to remark how fast he is

Batman fights valiantly.... and loses.

Bruce Wayne 7/10.

Originally posted by jinzin
Batman fights valiantly.... and loses.

batman would curl up in a ball having a flash back of his parents death in the ally after kingpin smacks him a few times giving him a concussion

batman will start calling himself wuce brayne because of the permanent brain damage

Spider-Man holds back all the time against Kingpin. If Peter Wasn't holding Back, Kingpin's going down hard.

Bruce doesn't have any armor on here. So he'll be even faster now. I don't know why I see this talk of Bruce Wayen losing. Bruce is a top tier master martial artist and physically at the peak of perfection. Pressure point strikes ftw.

pressure point attacks?!

you dont think DD, Cap and Red skull havent tried that?
drylaugh
i dont think you realize how big of a monster classic kingpin was

yeh, now Spidey holds back he has grown in age, experience and power but back in the day that wasnt the case when facing Kingpin.. he get mad and hit him with everything he had as an inexperience early 20 yr old and Kingpin took those blows like a champ, back when Spidey's strength was more in the 2 to 5 ton range.

come on man you have the spidey sig you know that.
"you know it to be true"

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
batman will start calling himself wuce brayne because of the permanent brain damage

Originally posted by Marvelknight
I don't know why I see this talk of Bruce Wayen losing.

Because you don't understand what kind of rep gets built off taking down guys like Cap, Spidey, Black Cat, Redskull, and DD...

This doesn't come as a surprise.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
Bruce is a top tier master martial artist and physically at the peak of perfection. Pressure point strikes ftw.

Fisk is a like-tier martial artist, physically at the peak of perfection PLUS.

Fisk crushing Batsy ftw.

Classic Kingpin ftw.... too strong, too durable.

Originally posted by King Castle
pressure point attacks?!

you dont think DD, Cap and Red skull havent tried that?
drylaugh
i dont think you realize how big of a monster classic kingpin was

yeh, now Spidey holds back he has grown n age, experience and power but back in the day that wasnt the case when facing Kingpin.. she he get mad and hit him with he had as an inexperience early 20 yr old and Kingpin took those blows like a champ, back when Spidey's strength was more in the 2 to 5 ton range.

come on man you have the spidey sig you know that.
"you know it to be true"

Yeah but you really think Bruce will lose? I don't think Kingpin can beat Batman h2h imo.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Yeah but you really think Bruce will lose? I don't think Kingpin can beat Batman h2h imo. He can.

Originally posted by King Castle
pressure point attacks?!

you dont think DD, Cap and Red skull havent tried that?
drylaugh
i dont think you realize how big of a monster classic kingpin was

yeh, now Spidey holds back he has grown n age, experience and power but back in the day that wasnt the case when facing Kingpin.. she he get mad and hit him with he had as an inexperience early 20 yr old and Kingpin took those blows like a champ, back when Spidey's strength was more in the 2 to 5 ton range.

come on man you have the spidey sig you know that.
"you know it to be true"

What the hell do you think?!
OF COURSE HE KNOWS THAT SHIT! He's read over a thousand comics! jawdrop

Originally posted by jinzin
Because you don't understand what kind of rep gets built off taking down guys like Cap, Spidey, Black Cat, Redskull, and DD...

This doesn't come as a surprise.


Fisk is a like-tier martial artist, physically at the peak of perfection PLUS.

Fisk crushing Batsy ftw.

Imo I think it's Bull that he beat those guys. But whatever.

Yeah, his entire fighting career is "bull"



Okay.

it would be Bull if he was doing it now with a ruined body from gunshots, stabbings, ton punches and age.

it wasnt bull in the time the stories took place hence why the OP stated "Classic Kingpin"

there is no way around that..

i mean you could say classic spiderman from the 80's only and it be like pulling out current feats of strength speed that are over the top for his classic non experienced and not fully powered spiderman.

Classic Fisk is superhuman regarding brute strength and maybe durability but Wayne is too fast, too smart, and no slouch regarding physical power either so he takes this.

There's nothing that a good ol' Batkick can't fix..

batman

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Classic Fisk is superhuman regarding brute strength and maybe durability but Wayne is too fast, too smart, and no slouch regarding physical power either so he takes this.

There's nothing that a good ol' Batkick can't fix..

batman No he is no slouch in that.

But kingpin is almost as fast and much stronger and much more durable.

Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah, his entire fighting career is "bull"



Okay.

Not saying that. But the skill range is wide when compared to Bruce. I'll have to evaluate before making a decision.

If Captain America wasn't "too fast" for Kingpin, Batman certainly will not be.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Not saying that. But the skill range is wide when compared to Bruce. I'll have to evaluate before making a decision. Skill doesn't determine a battle.

And Kingpin anit bad in that either.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Not saying that. But the skill range is wide when compared to Bruce. I'll have to evaluate before making a decision.

You just did say that.

..Skill, speed, intelligence, and grit are deciding factors.

All are in Bruce's favor.

Fisk is a lot stronger and more durable but Bats is almost superhuman regarding strength as well

i wish i wasnt so lazy that i would actually search for classic kingpins fights and feats to stop this foolishness

but for now this is how i see it:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v42/Charagon/batmanvskingpin.jpg

Originally posted by Lord KMC
..Skill, speed, intelligence, and grit are deciding factors.

All are in Bruce's favor.

Fisk is a lot stronger and more durable but Bats is almost superhuman regarding strength as well

No..............


He's grossly superhuman in strength.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
..Skill, speed, intelligence, and grit are deciding factors.

All are in Bruce's favor.

Fisk is a lot stronger and more durable but Bats is almost superhuman regarding strength as well skill speed and intelligence and grit are only deciding factors if you are leaps and bounds above your opponent.

Batman isn't leaps and bounds about batman in Kingpin.

And Kingpin is far above batman in strength and durability. Thats how he is going to win.

Originally posted by jinzin
He's grossly superhuman in strength.
Enlighten me as to just how you imagine Batman losing this then...

Originally posted by Black bolt z
And Kingpin is far above batman in strength and durability. Thats how he is going to win.
That makes no sense. You claimed that 4 different factors don't mean Bruce can pull a win yet 2 different factors can get Will the decisive blow. Brute strength almost never wins a fight

okay i found his respect thread, let us thank Digi for his hard work.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t444580.html

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Enlighten me as to just how you imagine Batman losing this then...

I know what you mean. Batman put down Solomon Grundy.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Enlighten me as to just how you imagine Batman losing this then...

oh woops... sorry, I'm tired (long weekend) I thought you said fisk was almost superhuman in strength. Woops.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
I know what you mean. Batman put down Solomon Grundy.

Who was CLEARLY as skilled a Kingpin.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
I know what you mean. Batman put down Solomon Grundy.
A very weak version of Solomon Grundy.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
A very weak version of Solomon Grundy.

Still more powerful than Kingpin, though.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Still more powerful than Kingpin, though.
Stronger, but not as durable.

And did we forget Bane here people? Batman beat him too. Oh yeah, and Bane is highly skilled.

Originally posted by jinzin
oh woops... sorry, I'm tired (long weekend) I thought you said fisk was almost superhuman in strength. Woops.
I see, Fisk is stronger but not as much as you're claiming, Wayne can press about half a ton or so.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
I know what you mean. Batman put down Solomon Grundy.
Yep.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
A very weak version of Solomon Grundy.

Who was AS SKILLED as Kingpin!

I still have to see proof of how batman wins.

moving on

Originally posted by jrodslam
Heres the resp of the Cap fight Digi..

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8701/kpvc02js5.th.jpghttp://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9385/kpvc03tg6.th.jpg

Cap is lucky Falcon saves his ass.

strength feat

Originally posted by jrodslam
Matt struggles to move a vault door with 2 hands while Kingpin easily does it with 1.

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/6268/daredevil17112ir1.th.jpghttp://img247.imageshack.us/img247/7008/daredevil17113rf3.th.jpghttp://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7440/daredevil17114xj1.th.jpg

Originally posted by Lord KMC
I see, Fisk is stronger but not as much as you're claiming, Wayne can press about half a ton or so.


Yep.

Not as much as I'm saying?

He's pushed Spidey through a concrete wall, DURING a contest of strength.

Originally posted by jinzin
Who was AS SKILLED as Kingpin!
arrrgh

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I still have to see proof of how batman wins.

By being better at hand to hand than Cap WITH his super soldier serum, superior stats, likened skills, Fenris resistant armor, and shield. DD with his billy club, armor, and radar sense. Red skull with his likened skills and enhanced physical attributes. And Spiderman with his super strength, speed, reflexes, agility, durability, pre cog and webbing!


BATKICK BABY!

Originally posted by jinzin
He's pushed Spidey through a concrete wall, DURING a contest of strength.
High-end feat, on top of the fact that Parker was a lot weaker way back then.

Originally posted by jinzin
By being better at hand to hand than Cap WITH his super soldier serum, superior stats, likened sills, Fenris resistant armor, and shield. DD with his billy club, armor, and radar sense. Red skull with his enhanced physical attributes. And Spiderman with his super strength, speed, reflexes, agility, durability, pre cog and webbing!


BATKICK BABY! Your logic is sound and secure. I concede

lets not forget that classic kingpin wore a bullet proof vest, a gas broach and laser cane and its a wash
drylaugh

Originally posted by Lord KMC
High-end feat, on top of the fact that Parker was a lot weaker way back then.

Parker was STILL MUCH MUCH stronger than Batman and it's not a high end feat hence easily opening that vaulted door that DD couldn't, ripping a huge metal scaffold from it's roots and tearing an entire living room out from under itself. Plus the number of times that Spiderman commented on Fisk overpowering him, being incredibly strong.. This isn't some mystery.. Fisk was grossly superhuman, stronger than Batman by a healthy margin.

this isnt even a debate argument with logic this has just gotten pissy with:

"if spiderman wasny spiderman and if Cap was super soldier etc etc things would be different."

its like saying if bats wasnt bats he get mugged.

the hard truth is classic kingpin is classic kingpin no and ifs about it.

Originally posted by jinzin
Parker was STILL MUCH MUCH stronger than Batman and it's not a high end feat hence easily opening that vaulted door that DD couldn't, ripping a huge metal scaffold from it's roots and tearing an entire living room out from under itself. Plus the number of times that Spiderman commented on Fisk overpowering him, being incredibly strong.. This isn't some mystery.. Fisk was grossly superhuman, stronger than Batman by a healthy margin.
Fine, I'll concede the strength point. Though I reiterate - brute strength alone can never win a fight. That's why Parker always stomped Fisk's ass even though the latter "overpowered" him. Also, you're forgetting that Wayne held his own against Bane.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Fine, I'll concede the strength point. Though I reiterate - brute strength alone can never win a fight. That's why Parker always stomped Fisk's ass even though the latter "overpowered" him. Also, you're forgetting that Wayne held his own against Bane. Never?

His strength and durability are way beyond batman.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Fine, I'll concede the strength point. Though I reiterate - brute strength alone can never win a fight. That's why Parker always stomped Fisk's ass even though the latter "overpowered" him. Also, you're forgetting that Wayne held his own against Bane.

Parker rarely "stomped" Fisk, and typically had to pull out come-from-behind victories from his ass.

I never claimed brute strength was enough to ensure victory, but Fisk is incredibly skilled as well.

I'd say classic Fisk was much stronger than Bane WO Venom too. Though Bane's getting to those levels of strength, he wasn't when him and batman had their rematches. Plus Fisk is much heavier too.

agreed the bane of yester year when he fought bats is not the same as he is now. today bane is wtf wall pounding strong closer to what kingpin was in his classic days.

now for speed agility and whatnot they really werent deciding factors when kingpin was fighting Cap, Red skull and DD and they are all equal if not superior to bats.

no BS Bats isnt winning here b/c he is the good guy.

Anyone saying Pete used to beat Kingpin more often than not is wearing goggles from the 2000's. Not only did Fisk usually win, his only losses to Spidey until about 2008 came through plot devices.

The reason I made the KP respect thread was because when I was putting together the Spidey respect thread (the original one, not the current one), I couldn't believe how great Fisk did against him. It wasn't once, twice, plot devices, etc. It was ALWAYS. And then he'd perform an independent feat to confirm his level, like making a fool of Cap or Batman (both of which he did, albeit in a non-canon crossover for Bats) or easily crushing steel in his bare hands.

Also, for those trying to claim otherwise, his victories and stalemates against SM continued to come well after SM had been established as Class 10.

In other words, this fight isn't even close. Bruce would survive for a bit, get in some good strikes, and lose. Classic Kingpin 9/10

Originally posted by Digi
Anyone saying Pete used to beat Kingpin more often than not is wearing goggles from the 2000's. Not only did Fisk usually win, his only losses to Spidey until about 2008 came through plot devices.

The reason I made the KP respect thread was because when I was putting together the Spidey respect thread (the original one, not the current one), I couldn't believe how great Fisk did against him. It wasn't once, twice, plot devices, etc. It was ALWAYS. And then he'd perform an independent feat to confirm his level, like making a fool of Cap or Batman (both of which he did, albeit in a non-canon crossover for Bats) or easily crushing steel in his bare hands.

Also, for those trying to claim otherwise, his victories and stalemates against SM continued to come well after SM had been established as Class 10.

In other words, this fight isn't even close. Bruce would survive for a bit, get in some good strikes, and lose. Classic Kingpin 9/10

thumbsup

Kingpin crushes him.

If classic Kingpin is that strong, why put at Bruce a disadvantage here?

Also I need to "see" prof that pressure point attacks do not work on Fisk.

Masters like Shiva and Batman have been seen taking down opponents with considerable durability with pressure point attacks.

there are examples in his respect thread.

1. Kingpin tanked a softening blow from Red Skull used to try to get free from kingpin it failed.

2. Matt tried in costume to cripple Kingpin and use dirty tactics admitted by his own internal monologue by double flat kicking kingpin in the spine or back of the rib area part wasn't that clear. DD stated that Kingpin wasn't blubber and wasn't actually rock solid.

3. DD comes for revenge after kingpin and brings his Cane and viciously assaults kingpin on the bridge of the nose, temple and other sensitive areas kingpin tanked them all and beat Matt unconscious.

Originally posted by King Castle
there are examples in his respect thread.

1. Kingpin tanked a softening blow from Red Skull used to try to get free from kingpin it failed.

2. Matt tried in costume to cripple Kingpin and use dirty tactics admitted by his own internal monologue by double flat kicking kingpin in the spine or back of the rib area part wasn't that clear. DD stated that Kingpin wasn't blubber and wasn't actually rock solid.

3. DD comes for revenge after kingpin and brings his Cane and viciously assaults kingpin on the bridge of the nose, temple and other sensitive areas kingpin tanked them all and beat Matt unconscious.

But attacks like those are not the same like hitting someone in a certain area, then moments later their heart explodes. Not saying Batman has done it. But Batman has put down foes with a touch of the two finger only. Batman has also struck Wonder Wonder with a pressure point strike to her head and made her scream in pain releasing him.

Batman slapped her ears pushing air in and only recall him dong that during practice from behind...

Batman has used the vibrating palm or slight variation of the tiger blow. the thing is that Kingpin tanking ability is stated to be high due to his excess fat and rock like muscle plus classic kingpin also wore bullet proof vest.

an enraged Daredevil who is trying to kill and cripple Kingpin with precision pressure blows and failing shows Kingpins ability to tank said types of attacks.

if batman can hit him in the ears then it will only serve as a distraction blow not an incapacitation blow, all that buys batman is a few precious seconds that he would need to capitalize on and it's questionable if bat's would go for the heart stop trick or if he would get past kingpin's large frame and body fat/muscle his noted attributes.

Originally posted by King Castle
Batman slapped her ears pushing air in and only recall him dong that during practice from behind...

Batman has used the vibrating palm or slight variation of the tiger blow. the thing is that Kingpin tanking ability is stated to be high due to his excess fat and rock like muscle plus classic kingpin also wore bullet proof vest.

an enraged Daredevil who is trying to kill and cripple Kingpin with precision pressure blows and failing shows Kingpins ability to tank said types of attacks.

if batman can hit him in the ears then it will only serve as a distraction blow not an incapacitation blow, all that buys batman is a few precious seconds that he would need to capitalize on and it's questionable if bat's would go for the heart stop trick or if he would get past kingpin's large frame and body fat/muscle his noted attributes.

1. I don't not think that Daredevil is as strong as Bruce. Bruce chops bricks in half with little effort, and dent steel.

2. No I'm not referring to a practice match between them. I'm talking about when Wonder Woman was possessed and started attacking her teammates.

yeh, i seem to recall it now.

now i dont see Bat's being superior to DD in strength if he is is marginal at best nor is it enough to separate the two with clear distinction.

aside from that breaking breaks and denting steel is the hallmark for all street levelers

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Also I need to "see" prof that pressure point attacks do not work on Fisk.

Masters like Shiva and Batman have been seen taking down opponents with considerable durability with pressure point attacks.

Because his whole body is encased in layers of fat over his insane layers of muscle.
The man is a genius and has created the perfect body to deal with pressure point fighters.

KP.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
If classic Kingpin is that strong, why put at Bruce a disadvantage here? I don't know. Kingpin would probably win even if bats had the suits. So I don't know why he's handicapped.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
1. I don't not think that Daredevil is as strong as Bruce. Bruce chops bricks in half with little effort, and dent steel.
chopping bricks in half and denting steal has nothing to do with strength and everything to do with technique.


matt has lifted a four hundred pound barbell "as if it was 50" before and then used it to smack two guys around. show me a scan that puts bats at a definitively higher level.

Let's ignore Wayne's victories over extremely skilled people such as Kal, Solomon Grundy, Bane, Lady Shiva, Dick Grayson, Ra's Al Ghul, Talia, Diana, Oliver Queen etc. as well as the infamous stalemate with VAL ARMORR himself...

Fisk ain't winning this

Almost every street has chopped through bricks and dented steel...

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
chopping bricks in half and denting steal has nothing to do with strength and everything to do with technique.


matt has lifted a four hundred pound barbell "as if it was 50" before and then used it to smack two guys around. show me a scan that puts bats at a definitively higher level.

Holding up the rubble from a collapsed building (for a short amount of time).
http://img111.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc192&image=b12_baton2.jpg

Holding up a 1000 lbs. ceiling.
http://img21.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc244&image=77c_bat1000.jpg

Benching over 1000 lbs.
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7829/bato1001iw7.jpg

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Let's ignore Wayne's victories over extremely skilled people such as Kal, Solomon Grundy, Bane, Lady Shiva, Dick Grayson, Ra's Al Ghul, Talia, Diana, Oliver Queen etc. as well as the infamous stalemate with VAL ARMORR himself...

Fisk ain't winning this And lets ignore fisk's countless victories over spiderman and daredevil. Both of whom of a good shot at beating batman.

You still have yet to prove he can beat kingpin. All you've said is "he beat this guy so that automatically means he beats fisk" which isn't the case.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
And lets ignore fisk's countless victories over spiderman and daredevil. Both of whom of a good shot at beating batman.
Parker could defeat Wayne most of the time but Murdock would lose most of the time so moot point.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
You still have yet to prove he can beat kingpin. All you've said is "he beat this guy so that automatically means he beats fisk" which isn't the case.
I know Wayne would wreck Fisk because he's rocked multiple people the latter can't beat: Val, Dick, Diana, Cassandra, Shiva, Ra's, Oliver, Bane and of course; SOLOMON GRUNDY.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Parker could defeat Wayne most of the time but Murdock would lose most of the time so moot point.


I know Wayne would wreck Fisk because he's rocked multiple people the latter can't beat: Val, Dick, Diana, Cassandra, Shiva, Ra's, Oliver, Bane and of course; SOLOMON GRUNDY. Not really...at at... is it a moot point.

A weakened solomon grundy. Dick isn't that impressive. Neither is bane. And batman doing any sort of damage to diana is just plain wrong .

Yeah Kingpin wins. More durable, stronger, and almost as fast, smart, and skilled.

Even a weakened Solomon Grundy would wreck Fisk.
So would Bane

Dick, not impressive?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
He's the one man truly capable of replacing Bruce as Bats...

Diana isn't known for her durability or speed; her main point is her strength, mate.

Fisk has ripped off arms while merely shaking hands and shrugged of half a dozen bullets to the chest. He would break Bane... but I can't see him handling Grundy.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Diana isn't known for her durability or speed That says it all

Kingpin wins.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Fisk has ripped off arms while merely shaking hands and shrugged of half a dozen bullets to the chest. He would break Bane... but I can't see him handling Grundy.

Bane handeled two Hourmen at once. He's stronger than KP while on Venom.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
That says it all
She's a grunt much like Thor.
Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
She's a grunt much like Thor.
Concession accepted. Except she IS known for her speed...

Kingpin would break bane. Kingpin would break dick. Kingpin would break bruce, especially a no armor bruce.

Hourman jobbed.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Except she IS known for her speed...
Gee..I must not be reading the same comics as you She seems to be missing hypersonic blitzes against fighters like Clayface, Chesire, Poison Ivy, Circe etc. She's a grunt as slow as Thor rarely engaging in speed feats.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Kingpin would break bane. Kingpin would break dick. Kingpin would break bruce, especially a no armor bruce.
Bruce wrecked Grundy who would break Fisk.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Hourman jobbed.

Everyone jobs to you and it still happened. He also overcame Azrael, who with his suit has enhanced strength and durabilty. Not to mention a venomless Bane ripping out limbs with ease.

Plus Croc with upgrades.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Everyone jobs to you and it still happened. He also overcame Azrael, who with his suit has enhanced strength and durabilty. Not to mention a venomless Bane ripping out limbs with ease.

Plus Croc with upgrades.

Hourman did job... do you know who Hourman is? Batman beat Azrael down when he took back the mantle too, and Croc gets owned by everyone. Tommy Jagger wrecked Bane in a handful of panels.

yeah, I do and he's not a good fighter at all. He has enhanced speed, agility, strength, etc... but has been bested by people weaker than him. It's not out of the realm of possibility, IMO.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
yeah, I do and he's not a good fighter at all. He has enhanced speed, agility, strength, etc... but has been bested by people weaker than him. It's not out of the realm of possibility, IMO.

That's true he is a shitty fighter... Silver Surfer shitty...

Not that shitty. He did train under Wildcat for some time.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Gee..I must not be reading the same comics as you She seems to be missing hypersonic blitzes against fighters like Clayface, Chesire, Poison Ivy, Circe etc. She's a grunt as slow as Thor rarely engaging in speed feats.


Bruce wrecked Grundy who would break Fisk. kinda

How inaccurate can you possibly be?

Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Kingpin wins. if prep-man thinks kp wins, theres no reason for me to argue

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Gee..I must not be reading the same comics as you She seems to be missing hypersonic blitzes against fighters like Clayface, Chesire, Poison Ivy, Circe etc. She's a grunt as slow as Thor rarely engaging in speed feats.


Bruce wrecked Grundy who would break Fisk.


What the hell is happening around here?

Did KMC send out a global invite to Comicvine or something?

What is this place? The Asgard of the internet?

Why the hell are we constantly being besieged by these damned trolls?

Originally posted by Lord KMC

Bruce wrecked Grundy who would break Fisk. It doesnt work that way. Fisk is superior to Bruce so he wins.

Originally posted by jinzin
What the hell is happening around here?

Did KMC send out a global invite to Comicvine or something?

What is this place? The Asgard of the internet?

Why the hell are we constantly being besieged by these damned trolls? truthfully a lot of viners left due to trolls and poor quality debating and re open old accounts, the pretty site and bright colors wasnt enough to keep them distracted from the crap there so they signed up back here consequently a few of the undesirables came as well since the KMC name gets tossed around over there from time to time.

the problem is that they dont read the rules and bring bad habits and debating skills.

they are trying to find a new home:
them
http://37stories.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/moses_with_tablets.jpg
us
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_tKFAgiLbLEg/S05r46sEozI/AAAAAAAAA5Q/YZiforeqScY/s320/funny_sign_02.jpg

its why we have been getting over run with horrible arguments and threads

I don't want to shoot Moses...

Never thought I'd say that.

Originally posted by SamZED
It doesnt work that way. Fisk is superior to Bruce so he wins.

So bringing up relevant feats to the topic isn't how it works?

Good to know.

There are 3 types of fighters in comics: the actual speedsters like The Flash and The Runner, somewhat speedy people like Kal and Rob Reynolds, and slow grunts like Diana and Thor. People like Wally are shown to be vibrating and shit; people like Sentry and Supes are shown to blitz people sometimes; people like Thor have barely any speed feats. Wonder Woman is slow as hell - get over it.

...Also, I like how Wayne merking Grundy isn't enough of a basis to conclude that he would fell Fisk facepalm

Originally posted by Lord KMC
There are 3 types of fighters in comics: the actual speedsters like The Flash and The Runner, somewhat speedy people like Kal and Rob Reynolds, and slow grunts like Diana and Thor. People like Wally are shown to be vibrating and shit; people like Sentry and Supes are shown to blitz people sometimes; people like Thor have barely any speed feats. Wonder Woman is slow as hell - get over it.

...Also, I like how Wayne merking Grundy isn't enough of a basis to conclude that he would fell Fisk facepalm facepalm

Fisk still wins.

Grundy power lvl fluctuates to barely superhuman low end brick. it isnt a very stable character to use plus we leave out out pis moments for characters and gauge by power set..

Grundy could be ko'ed by fisk as well in certain situations just like Wildcat knocked the stuffing out of him.

Grundy's power level may fluctuate a lot but he's still far above Fisk even at his lowest Fisk couldn't have replicated that feat since he lacks the speed, skill, and intelligence to take out Grundy. Wayne is a beast that's taken out people like Bane and Diana...

Fisk has taken and beaten hobgoblin after spiderman failed at a special event.

you're joking right? fisk is highly trained, incredibly quick, and highly intelligent and tactical. put fisk in the same situation and he wouldve done grundy in as well

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
you're joking right? fisk is highly trained, incredibly quick, and highly intelligent and tactical. put fisk in the same situation and he wouldve done grundy in as well

You just described Bane!

...Fisk defeating Solomon Grundy facepalm

dude, just stop.

you have bn skewing events since you got here.

no one here thinks that Fisk is going to hit or hang with Grundy but to believe that Grundy isnt a joke at his lowest incarnation is delusional.

also you have bn using PIS events for batman to begin with to support your argument.

how about you stick to a single tier of his h2h and peak maybe slight superhuman opponents to gauge how he does in a solo fight.

Heh, I love the experts of false knowledge in this thread.

Pretty damn amusing.

I like how I'm using "CIS\PIS" events such as Wayne defeating Grundy yet you guys somehow aren't when you use those same CIS\PIS showings of Fisk defeating Parker and Osbourne. Wayne's defeated countless people of various skill and power that would give Fisk trouble such as Diana, Bane, Chesire, Dick, Cass, Ra's, and Talia. Hell, Bruce even fought on par with VAL himself who is a little above Danny Rand level.

Val got the best of Bruce, though. Even taking away his utility belt in combat.

one the OP specifically made clear which Fisk we should use. his feats and history are part of his character as is KK.

side note you are forgetting that KK was sick and dying bats had his armor and flight ring and Fisk body is no where similar to the ppl you mention nor have the same lvl of durability feats as Fisk on panel.

again Classic Fisk has fought and or beaten: Cap, Red skull, spiderman, Daredevil, Hobgoblin, Punisher... so to say he isnt quick or a good fighter is a gross understatement.

now add the fact that Batman has his gear taken away he is going to have far more difficult time then he has with others while wearing kevlar or using his tech.

Danny Rand is a peer for Val.

Val kicks around people like Mon-El, Jo, and Kara Zor-El.

Wayne managed to fight on par with Val; him losing his utility belt means nothing since it was an H2H fight.

Fisk could never, ever hope to match Danny let alone Val.

VAL was brainwashed into thinking he was Trident. Don't forget that. Plus he just woke from a coma and still managed to look better than bruce.

perhaps not but at the end of the day classic Kingpin has manhandled Cap and Red skull with his cloned body. i dont see Bat's being any stronger nor superior physically or skill wise to make the outcome with him different.

Val at the time didn't have full access to his memories when he fought Batman

i put that Val at barely above bat's in skill and i would say h2h or give Cap a flight ring he would have done a lot better then bruce stalemate or win.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
VAL was brainwashed into thinking he was Trident. Don't forget that. Plus he just woke from a coma and still managed to look better than bruce.
Val being brainwashed doesn't mean anything since he retained his skills. Also, Wayne isn't a person that goes around beating the hell out of kids; he was on the defensive for a reason. Val reminded him of Dick.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Val being brainwashed doesn't mean anything since he retained his skills. Also, Wayne isn't a person that goes around beat the hell out of kids; he was on the defensive for a reason.

Val at that time didn't even know he was Val.

it's also foolish to think that a guy who just woke up from a coma, amnesia and is dying would retain all his fighting knowledge or fight at his best...

might as well have Daredevil or cap fight wolverine in h2h after suffering a long month adamantium poisoning and being controlled by a laptop as him fighting at his best skills intact.drylaugh

Originally posted by -K-M-
Val at that time didn't even know he was Val.
Doesn't matter. Val still retained his BODY and his skill which is the only reason that he was able to fight Bruce. Even an amnesiac and dying Val could take Fisk.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Doesn't matter. Val still retained his BODY and his skill which is the only reason that he was able to fight Bruce. Even an amnesiac and dying Val could take Fisk.

Why would he retain his skill if he couldn't even remember who he is? That makes no sense.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Why would he retain his skill if he couldn't even remember who he is? That makes no sense. see bourne identity

Originally posted by Starscream M
see bourne identity

Bourne had retrograde amnesia, that's different then what Val had.

Bruce and Val are both peak humans.
If Val DID lose his skill somehow, he wouldn't have lasted 10 seconds.
Starscream M already proved why he did retain his skill.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Bourne had retrograde amnesia, that's different then what Val had. well I was responding to your statement regarding how someone can retain skills yet not know who they are

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Bruce and Val are both peak humans.
If Val DID lose his skill somehow, he wouldn't have lasted 10 seconds.
Starscream M already proved why he did retain his skill.

Ummmm...no

Originally posted by Starscream M
well I was responding to your statement regarding how someone can retain skills yet not know who they are

With a completly different scenario that is drastically different here

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ummmm...no
Ummmm...yeah.

They're both peak humans, actually Val is at a disadvantage here, he was in a coma and dying.

A person without any skill whatsoever and an inferior body can't beat an extremely skilled person with a superior body.

Jason Bourne retained all his skill even though he lost his memory.

Val was still in a weakened state and got the better.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Ummmm...yeah.

They're both peak humans, actually Val is at a disadvantage here, he was in a coma and dying.

A person without any skill whatsoever and an inferior body can't beat an extremely skilled person with a superior body.

Jason Bourne retained all his skill even though he lost his memory.

Ummm...no.

Val has superhuman feats thanks to his chi amping

He had some as I said earlier, but not all his memories.

Which isn't what happened to KK.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Val has superhuman feats thanks to his chi amping
Val wasn't able to "chi amp" in his fight with Bruce so moot point is moot; he would've lost in 5 seconds if the amnesia wasn't selective.

Originally posted by -K-M-
He had some as I said earlier, but not all his memories.
Val didn't lose all of his memories either.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Val wasn't able to "chi amp" in his fight with Bruce so moot point is moot; he would've lost in 5 seconds if the amnesia wasn't selective.

Val didn't lose all of his memories either.

DING! another reason why you shouldn't use that fight as an actual comparison.

Yeah he did and was referenced again later on.

lol!

You misunderstand me.

Bruce would've lost instantly if Val was able to amp chi ~ BUT ~ Val would've lost instantly if he forgot all of his skill as Bruce is a grandmaster.

Val retained enough of his basic skills to fight just like Jason Bourne.

Yes basic, not all his abilities and also Val coming out of his com/and dying from the virus is not the best example to base a skill level ranking with.

I like how I'm getting excuses that Wayne stalemating Val\beating people like Bane, Diana, and Grundy isn't enough basis to establish that he can take Fisk..

However, you guys are allowed to use high-end feats like Fisk beating Peter and Harry.

Sounds like B.S. to me

I never mentioned anything about Fisk, I however added context to an example you brought up and nothing more.

On topic, Batman's high showings shouldn't be ignored.

Originally posted by -K-M-
I never mentioned anything about Fisk, I however added context to an example you brought up and nothing more.

On topic, Batman's high showings shouldn't be ignored. i ignore him dodging superman flight blitz, punching and heat vision.

i dont care what you say.

Originally posted by -K-M-
I never mentioned anything about Fisk, I however added context to an example you brought up and nothing more.
I see.
Wayne's the closest thing Val has to a peer in martial-arts skill in comic book history other than Danny.
Add that to the fact that his intellect is second only to Reed Richards, his strength\durability aren't much lower than Fisk, and his speed is far greater; I really don't see him losing this fight at all.

Originally posted by King Castle
i ignore him dodging superman flight blitz, punching and heat vision.

i dont care what you say.

Well yes some showings can be considered PIS, but when Batman has done similar things more then once you can't outright ignore them.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
I see.
Wayne's the closest thing Val has to a peer in martial-arts skill in comic book history other than Danny.
Add that to the fact that his intellect is second only to Reed Richards, his strength\durability aren't much lower than Fisk, and his speed is far greater; I really don't see him losing this fight at all.

Black Dragon?

Originally posted by Lord KMC
I see.
Wayne's the closest thing Val has to a peer in martial-arts skill in comic book history other than Danny.
Add that to the fact that his intellect is second only to Reed Richards, his strength\durability aren't much lower than Fisk, and his speed is far greater; I really don't see him losing this fight at all.

Nothing you said there is accurate...

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Black Dragon?
..Wayne hung with Val, I don't think Drag could do the same

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Nothing you said there is accurate...
Boy, are you drunk or smoke...?!?

EDIT: Double Post

Originally posted by Lord KMC
..Wayne hung with Val, I don't think Drag could do the same


Boy, are you drunk or smoke...?!?

Let's check shall we?

Wayne's the closest thing Val has to a peer in martial-arts skill in comic book history other than Danny? Not even close. There are dozens of characters more skilled than Batman and less skilled than Val. Batman stalemated crappy 3-Boot Val, and weakened Countdown KK, a feat most top tier streets could replicate.

intellect is second only to Reed Richards. Again, no. Doom. Stark. Banner. Pym. T'Challa. Dozens of characters between Reed's intellect and Bruce's.

strength\durability aren't much lower than Fisk? Fist rips off arms while shaking hands and shrugs off bullets center mass.

speed is far greater. No. Batman's speed is slightly greater than Fisk's, and he has spend a career dealing with faster characters.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
..Wayne hung with Val, I don't think Drag could do the same


Boy, are you drunk or smoke...?!?

Black Dragon is Val's nemesis.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wayne's the closest thing Val has to a peer in martial-arts skill in comic book history other than Danny? Not even close. There are dozens of characters more skilled than Batman and less skilled than Val. Batman stalemated crappy 3-Boot Val, and weakened Countdown KK, a feat most top tier streets could replicate.
I can only dignify this one with a facepalm

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
intellect is second only to Reed Richards. Again, no. Doom. Stark. Banner. Pym. T'Challa. Dozens of characters between Reed's intellect and Bruce's.
Wayne's infinitely smarters than these scrubs; he even surpasses Richards in all categories other than science.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
strength\durability aren't much lower than Fisk? Fist rips off arms while shaking hands and shrugs off bullets center mass.
Shrugging off bullets is an inconsistent high-end feat, Wayne in Kevlar could replicate it anyways, and he's barely stronger than Bats as heroes\vigilante don't rip off arms to showcase their strength.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
speed is far greater. No. Batman's speed is slightly greater than Fisk's, and he has spend a career dealing with faster characters.
I don't think you read much DC comics...

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Black Dragon is Val's nemesis.
Val's nemesis was Nemesis Kid, no pun intended, and that doesn't mean anything since Kal's nemesis is Lex Luthor...

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Val's nemesis was Nemesis Kid, no pun intended, and that doesn't mean anything since Kal's nemesis is Lex Luthor...

And Black Dragon in his own solo series.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
I can only dignify this one with a facepalm


Wayne's infinitely smarters than these scrubs; he even surpasses Richards in all categories other than science.


Shrugging off bullets is an inconsistent high-end feat, Wayne in Kevlar could replicate it anyways, and he's barely stronger than Bats as heroes\vigilante don't rip off arms to showcase their strength.


I don't think you read much DC comics...

lol

The only fields that Bruce is "smarter" than Reed in are criminal sciences and business science, and the only character listed he might be smarter than is T'Challa, and that is a toss up, the others are all his superiors.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
lol

The only fields that Bruce is "smarter" than Reed in are criminal sciences and business science, and the only character listed he might be smarter than is T'Challa, and that is a toss up, the others are all his superiors. Bruce Wayne is smarter than you. So you're not qualified to say anyone is smarter than him! sneer

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durcan