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gives me hope for us all.

a worldwide PEACEFUL revolution is needed to stop the insanity once and for all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThvBJMzmSZI&feature=player_embedded#

the only power the leaders have over us is the power we give them everyday. you can choose to be manipulated or not..simple really isnt it?

Wow . . .

. . . that guy actually named his video "the most amazing video on the internet".

revolutions are pretty amazing

You are......pretty damn passionate about this, Deano

mmm i think when your personal freedoms are at stake and the world is very much ****ed up and insane,(its been pushed deliberatly that way)

then i do think that EVERYONE should be passionate about this

or what the hell is the point of anyone being around, other than to be a slave?

if all we are going to do is bounce around like a child for the rest of our lives and only look out for ourselves in this manufactured reality, then we deserve whatever comes to us dont we

Why do you think freedom is inherently superior to the lack thereof? Is it to you an end to itself, or the best means to achieve other goals, like happiness or scientific pursuit or artistic endeavors or similar?

Can't wait until this hard line but relatively secular government in Egypt is replaced by a extremist Islam government so that no westerner will ever be able to visit the pyramids again.

Infact if the government that comes in to power is anything like the Taliban then they'll probably blow up the pyramids and sphynx just like the Taliban blew up the giant Buddha statues in Afghanistan. That'll take probably every bit of explosives that Islamic extremists have.

Then Jordan will fall and Petra will get blown up too.

Woohoo...**** historic monuments and world wonders...So long as revolution happens.

To be fair Jordan's king deserves to be overthrown for appearing on ST: Voyager (ep: Investigations)

Originally posted by Deano
gives me hope for us all.

a worldwide PEACEFUL revolution is needed to stop the insanity once and for all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThvBJMzmSZI&feature=player_embedded#

the only power the leaders have over us is the power we give them everyday. you can choose to be manipulated or not..simple really isnt it?
It is indeed very simple... very different than your usual defeatist attitude. I hope to see you keep this way in the future.

We will see great changes from this revolution. But the real changes come when this changes our own attitudes towards the world.

That's pretty amazing. I saw reflections of the American Revolution in it. Truly, it's the government that needs to fear the people, not the other way around. Good on them Egypt.

Originally posted by Deano
revolutions are pretty amazing Not as amazing as cheerleader porn.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Why do you think freedom is inherently superior to the lack thereof? Is it to you an end to itself, or the best means to achieve other goals, like happiness or scientific pursuit or artistic endeavors or similar?


do you prefer lack of freedoms?

Originally posted by jaden101
Can't wait until this hard line but relatively secular government in Egypt is replaced by a extremist Islam government so that no westerner will ever be able to visit the pyramids again.

Infact if the government that comes in to power is anything like the Taliban then they'll probably blow up the pyramids and sphynx just like the Taliban blew up the giant Buddha statues in Afghanistan. That'll take probably every bit of explosives that Islamic extremists have.

Then Jordan will fall and Petra will get blown up too.

Woohoo...**** historic monuments and world wonders...So long as revolution happens.

To be fair Jordan's king deserves to be overthrown for appearing on ST: Voyager (ep: Investigations) to hell with freedom for sand monkeys.... SAVE THE PYRAMIDS FROM SCARY MUSLIMS

I'm sure they'll get loads of freedom under an Islamist government...I'm sure that'll be a massive improvement.

that is assuming of course that they erect an islamic government

hopefully not

Originally posted by Deano
do you prefer lack of freedoms?

All things else being equal? No. Would you kindly answer my question though?

Originally posted by jaden101
Can't wait until this hard line but relatively secular government in Egypt is replaced by a extremist Islam government so that no westerner will ever be able to visit the pyramids again.


Iran is banking on it. Once people have had enough of the chaos, they're tired of starving and not getting fresh water, in comes the Ayotollahs promising peace and harmony through Allah/religion.

Originally posted by red g jacks
that is assuming of course that they erect an islamic government

We shall see soon enough.

Originally posted by Bardock42
All things else being equal? No. Would you kindly answer my question though?

why was that question asked though?it would take a many hours for me to write a decent response when i know you know the answer, anyone in a state of awareness will know the answer and i know you are not stupid. isnt it obvious enough?

free people in a world that aren't being held in an unnatural state will eventually evolve in a natural state and create a society based on love. we are literally all one so why all this friggin division and wars.

i like the quote from zeitgeist:



if you create a system on scarcity and the mentality of only looking out for yourself then what do you expect to happen? especially when we are pushed to act like this lol





do you think mother earth and the creator made a mistake with us? no, we have been manipulated for a very long time as a race, and its about time we woke up and put a stop to it.

Originally posted by red g jacks
to hell with freedom for sand monkeys.... SAVE THE PYRAMIDS FROM SCARY MUSLIMS

You think they might blow them up, like the Bamiyan Buddhas? After all, the sphinx and pyramids are technically pagan.

Originally posted by Deano

free people in a world that aren't being held in an unnatural state will eventually evolve in a natural state and create a society based on love. we are literally all one so why all this friggin division and wars.


So where did humans go wrong starting at about 200,00 years ago? If that's too far back, how about around 50,000 years ago?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You think they might blow them up, like the Bamiyan Buddhas? After all, the sphinx and pyramids are technically pagan. not really... i think these people who are rioting/protesting were inspired to do so by the movement in tunisia rather than some vague jihadi bullshit.. i've yet to see the destruction of the pyramids on their list of demands... plus nobody even worships the egyptian gods anymore while buddhism is a real alternative to islam

though i do have to give credit where its due.. the scenario of muslims trying to blow up the pyramids or sphinx on some religious quest is quite amusing.. would make for a good die hard movie or something

Originally posted by Robtard
So where did humans go wrong starting at about 200,00 years ago? If that's too far back, how about around 50,000 years ago?

that's another discussion altogether. i cant talk about it without mentioning extraterrestrials.

Originally posted by Deano
that's another discussion altogether. i cant talk about it without mentioning extraterrestrials.



Fair enough, but then I'm to assume humans have always been held in a "unnatural state" and never been allowed to "evolve into a natural state and create a society based on love."

That being said, how do you know humans can, if they've never have?

how do you know we never have? when the chains are off, we will go back to a natural living. its not a case of wanting or trying, it will naturally happen. it wont happen overnight, but in time you would see less crime because there would be no need to commit a crime because you would have everything you need. we always have had everything we need lol. thats the irony.


the system cons us into thinking we need the latest ipod or new fashions, and people will steal and kill to get these things. money is the main cause of this evil. this system is obviously not working and will eventually fall

the question is how can we move towards this new system without creating chaos? it would be like cutting an alcoholic off from the beer. at first there would be all sorts of chaos and negativity, but when the body adjusts it will begin to heal.

im not saying there is some utopia waiting for us, but im sure we can create a better system.

i suggest watching the 2nd zeitgesit documentary for a clear idea on this.

Originally posted by Deano
how do you know we never have? when the chains are off, we will go back to a natural living. its not a case of wanting or trying, it will naturally happen. it wont happen overnight, but in time you would see less crime because there would be no need to commit a crime because you would have everything you need. we always have had everything we need lol. thats the irony.


the system cons us into thinking we need the latest ipod or new fashions, and people will steal and kill to get these things. money is the main cause of this evil. this system is obviously not working and will eventually fall

the question is how can we move towards this new system without creating chaos? it would be like cutting an alcoholic off from the beer. at first there would be all sorts of chaos and negativity, but when the body adjusts it will begin to heal.

im not saying there is some utopia waiting for us, but im sure we can create a better system.

i suggest watching the 2nd zeitgesit documentary for a clear idea on this.
If we originally had everything we needed, and desired nothing, then we never would have had a "system". Governments emerged from populations, so no system occurred that wasn't allowed to do so by humans; the idea that people had everything they wanted and then decided they would give it up for no reason at all is ludicrous. Systems don't pop up overnight, they are created overtime, with consent all the way.

Think this'll spread to the western world Deano?

Originally posted by King Kandy
If we originally had everything we needed, and desired nothing, then we never would have had a "system". Governments emerged from populations, so no system occurred that wasn't allowed to do so by humans; the idea that people had everything they wanted and then decided they would give it up for no reason at all is ludicrous. Systems don't pop up overnight, they are created overtime, with consent all the way.

that's a fair point. i don't think there was a system in place at the beginning. but one was created and it has been manipulated over the course of time to suit a tiny few, not the majority, which is the point i was making earlier.

and there's nothing wrong with governments per se, if theres true freedom for all. humans consented to a system with government yes, but thats not surprising considering how easy we are manipulated.

but i think something happened back then and i don't think people are ready for the answer yet

and what is it you think humans didnt have at the dawn of time? did they need tv's or ipods? explain to me

Originally posted by Liberator
Think this'll spread to the western world Deano?

hard to say, people over here are much more sedated and lazy to get up off there couch, let alone start a revolution.

the trick is to get people to believe they are free, then they wont rebel, which is what is happening. thank god in egypt they are not so stupid

Originally posted by King Kandy
with consent all the way.

majority consent? or the consent of those with the ability to enforce such organization on those who don't consent?

lol, off topic I know, but this is 1 of 2 threads at the top of the forum about Egypt

Originally posted by Deano
how do you know we never have? when the chains are off, we will go back to a natural living. its not a case of wanting or trying, it will naturally happen. it wont happen overnight, but in time you would see less crime because there would be no need to commit a crime because you would have everything you need. we always have had everything we need lol. thats the irony.


the system cons us into thinking we need the latest ipod or new fashions, and people will steal and kill to get these things. money is the main cause of this evil. this system is obviously not working and will eventually fall

the question is how can we move towards this new system without creating chaos? it would be like cutting an alcoholic off from the beer. at first there would be all sorts of chaos and negativity, but when the body adjusts it will begin to heal.

im not saying there is some utopia waiting for us, but im sure we can create a better system.

i suggest watching the 2nd zeitgesit documentary for a clear idea on this.

How do you know we have? Circles and circles, see? But the "natural world" or nature is fairly violent. So ancient humans living in a Garden of Eden type of utopia goes against the grain.

Yes, I'm well aware of marketing. I have young children and see how it affects them with the "I want it; I need it."

Seems unlikely imo. Maybe use Roddenberry's Star Trek as an example. The start of humanity finding harmony was had with first contact with an alien species. But that brings up a slew of other questions.

Creating a "better" system won't happen without tearing down the current one, which will likely only happen through massive conflict, deaths and one side (the "better" being victorious. So to create your new world you're going to need to kill a lot of people and you'll likely be forcing people that don't want to live by your "better" standards to live by them, thereby you've become the monster you initial fought against.

I'm getting the film; will try and check it out in the next couple of weeks when I have time.

Originally posted by inimalist
majority consent? or the consent of those with the ability to enforce such organization on those who don't consent?

lol, off topic I know, but this is 1 of 2 threads at the top of the forum about Egypt
Consent of the majority, i'd imagine. I mean, maybe the idea of having "chiefs" came to cavemen only after some pro-elder thugs beat up the young ones, but, I doubt it. It seems likely there was some general consensus that sort of system should exist.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Consent of the majority, i'd imagine. I mean, maybe the idea of having "chiefs" came to cavemen only after some pro-elder thugs beat up the young ones, but, I doubt it. It seems likely there was some general consensus that sort of system should exist.

oh, ok, I'd disagree with your concept of cavemen sans chiefs though. I don't think there have ever been groups of people who evolved into a culture where there was no central authority.

I think the consensus you are referring to might be the fact that our genes predispose us to have group leaders, and genes that produced that behaviour were more likely to survive in the wild, not some choice by rational people to be part of a group because it serves their interests. Hell, look at modern society, there are people who go off to the desert to live "outside society", and the benefits of our modern society far surpass the benefits of belonging to caveman society.

and really, I find it hard to believe there would ever be 100% agreement among a group of people.

Originally posted by Deano
that's a fair point. i don't think there was a system in place at the beginning. but one was created and it has been manipulated over the course of time to suit a tiny few, not the majority, which is the point i was making earlier.

and there's nothing wrong with governments per se, if theres true freedom for all. humans consented to a system with government yes, but thats not surprising considering how easy we are manipulated.

but i think something happened back then and i don't think people are ready for the answer yet

and what is it you think humans didnt have at the dawn of time? did they need tv's or ipods? explain to me
Well, I think systems of government have always existed. We even see proto-governments in chimpanzees, or really any species with "alpha males". In humans, this would be hunter-gatherer chiefs or elders, or expanding this system for agricultures dawn, all the way down to king and queens and the rest is known history.

The real problem I have with the way you frame this, and what kind of separates "conspiracy theories" in general from being just facts, is that it seems to me the laziest sort of blame shifting. "Its all the elites fault". Well yeah, corporations, politicians, etc. definitely deserve blame, but everywhere along the way they were voted for by the average citizens... we voted with our ballots and we voted with our dollars. If everyone had kept themselves educated and looked towards the future, or appreciated the concept of innovation in politics, this sort of system never could have existed. I'd say the blame falls on everyone.

Originally posted by inimalist
oh, ok, I'd disagree with your concept of cavemen sans chiefs though. I don't think there have ever been groups of people who evolved into a culture where there was no central authority.

I think the consensus you are referring to might be the fact that our genes predispose us to have group leaders, and genes that produced that behaviour were more likely to survive in the wild, not some choice by rational people to be part of a group because it serves their interests. Hell, look at modern society, there are people who go off to the desert to live "outside society", and the benefits of our modern society far surpass the benefits of belonging to caveman society.

and really, I find it hard to believe there would ever be 100% agreement among a group of people.
Well, yeah, that was a bit hastily stated. I agree with you that central authority has always existed. I think authority grows organically from the populations when people allow it to do so. But it seems to me like most anarchist types have this notion that there's a "society" or "elite class" that exists completely independently of general society and just enforces rules, offering nothing in return. The rich are humans too, and they came from the same social network as the average and poor. I think we need to acknowledge our own role in society's evolution before we can change it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
If we originally had everything we needed, and desired nothing, then we never would have had a "system". Governments emerged from populations, so no system occurred that wasn't allowed to do so by humans; the idea that people had everything they wanted and then decided they would give it up for no reason at all is ludicrous. Systems don't pop up overnight, they are created overtime, with consent all the way.

I wouldn't say that there was "consent all the way." There are many examples of unpopular, controversial, or blatant laws, crimes etc. that were enacted without regard for certain people in history. just sayin'.

Originally posted by meep-meep
I wouldn't say that there was "consent all the way." There are many examples of unpopular, controversial, or blatant laws, crimes etc. that were enacted without regard for certain people in history. just sayin'.
I have a hard time believing these could have been passed if the majority of people had taken a really hard stance against them. The only cases I think are real exceptions are things like invasions where the system literally IS coming from outside the population.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I have a hard time believing these could have been passed if the majority of people had taken a really hard stance against them.

but that gets into the sort of Kafka-esque qualities of the state. While it does provide, it can be responsible for the most heinous violence delivered on people who don't comply with its will, EDIT: which is often nonsensical and arbitrary.

Originally posted by inimalist
but that gets into the sort of Kafka-esque qualities of the state. While it does provide, it can be responsible for the most heinous violence delivered on people who don't comply with its will, EDIT: which is often nonsensical and arbitrary.
But what is the "will of the state"? It can only do as much as people let it get away with, so really its not like the state is some actual entity. Its just a category of people that the population has vested power in, and its power is derived from that same population.

Originally posted by King Kandy
But what is the "will of the state"? It can only do as much as people let it get away with, so really its not like the state is some actual entity. Its just a category of people that the population has vested power in, and its power is derived from that same population.

sure, the state acts at the will or even the behest of the majority, to apply often completely incomprehendable rules that often enact a level of violence against individuals that criminals could never reach.

the obvious example is terrorism. No matter how bad the bomb throwing anarchists were in the 19th century or al qaeda is today, victims of those represent a fraction of those impacted and killed by state terrorism. You don't even have to include things like all out warfare, but if you do (and I don't personally know how else you could interpret "shock and awe" the comparison is almost humerously one sided.

I dont disagree with your point though. I'm just saying, consent really doesn't justify the actions.

Originally posted by inimalist
sure, the state acts at the will or even the behest of the majority, to apply often completely incomprehendable rules that often enact a level of violence against individuals that criminals could never reach.

the obvious example is terrorism. No matter how bad the bomb throwing anarchists were in the 19th century or al qaeda is today, victims of those represent a fraction of those impacted and killed by state terrorism. You don't even have to include things like all out warfare, but if you do (and I don't personally know how else you could interpret "shock and awe" the comparison is almost humerously one sided.

I dont disagree with your point though. I'm just saying, consent really doesn't justify the actions.
I never said it justified the actions. I think the complete opposite. Those actions cannot be justified, and need to be ended. What i'm saying though, is that to end the state tyranny we need to understand our role in creating it, and withdraw the support that has been implicit in society. I think anthropomorphizing the "system" as some kind of boogeyman (my main problem with Deano) really is counterproductive, because it makes it seem like we're going to have to battle some kind of alien force. Not really. We just need to empower our own control over society.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I never said it justified the actions. I think the complete opposite. Those actions cannot be justified, and need to be ended. What i'm saying though, is that to end the state tyranny we need to understand our role in creating it, and withdraw the support that has been implicit in society. I think anthropomorphizing the "system" as some kind of boogeyman (my main problem with Deano) really is counterproductive, because it makes it seem like we're going to have to battle some kind of alien force. Not really. We just need to empower our own control over society.

ok, ya, I agree with that. and really, I was just happy to name drop Kafka

Originally posted by Deano
i can see why their are conspiracy theories suggesting that an alien species have control over the government, because it just does not make sense that humans could create such a destructive force in out own environment. Like i say the truth could be even more crazier than people are ready for.


Why would aliens give a shit in the first place? There's a lot of sci-fi material where aliens either try to wipe us out (War of The Worlds) or teach us a lesson about peace (The Abyss). They always assume that aliens have human-like desires and motivations. Just because humans can be nosey and sometimes have a hankering to kill undesirables, doesn't mean that all intelligent lifeforms have to be "made in our image". That's just people wanting to project human traits on something else.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Maybe they do exist, but these elite are people who come from the same population. Anyone who got power got it from support of the population, whether from ignorance or force of arms or because they made good leaders. There's no supernatural force at work, but simply the forces arising from the population, causing certain trends to occur.

glad you admit it



there will be large scale changes. i dont know how a one world government underpinned by a microchipped people cant be considered large scale




we have been manipulated. if you have a child and make him/her believe that there is a god in the sky who will send you to to hell or heaven depending on how good you have been, well is that not manipulating?

many people in the mainstream are probably in it for profit. but those at the very top of the pyramid knows the ultimate purpose for it.

why would the elite who control the media want money when they have all the money?




it doesnt hurt the ability to seek alternatives. it plants the seed so that people can seek the information themselves. i agree with you on the sheep part. back then i was young and pretty naive. calling people sheep is hardly a way to get people to take you seriously. but back then when people were rude, it was hard not to retaliate with such words




well i think if people would rather watch football then understand what is going on in the world, i cant think of a more better word than stupid. can you?

copy and pasting is fine, as the purpose was to show people that the world could not be like you thought it was. it plants the seed and allows people to look into themselves. if a copy and paste article could explain the situation better than i could then i see no problem in it.




people educate themselves. i never said the entire race was educating themselves. its a lot more complicated than you could imagine in my opinion.




as i said before, yes it is us that have allowed the manipulation. when the people understand what is going on, then we can make a difference but the majority of people dont give a shite. ive lost count of the times ive shown people the evidence, and then they have some dazed look on there face. what follows next is a ;''oh well maybe its happening but there aint nothing we can do about it'' then two minutes later they erase it from there brain and go on as if nothing as happened. denial is an amazing thing.

i understand your point on wanting the names of the people involved but you have to understand the names are unimportant. if we take control then these people cant do anything at all. we have enough information to stop what is going on. all it takes is common sense. its dead simple.

do you need to know the specific scientific details of a storm? or do you look to the clouds and KNOW theres a storm coming. you know its there and you do what you can to prepare?



they are popular because people have been manipulated into fearing the unknown. when one person becomes manipulated, they try to get the next person and so on and so on like a domino effect. if you turn away from jesus you will go to hell! bullshit. fear is what the elite pray on. they must have you fearing something and they dont care what you believe as long as you are in fear.
watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwJP24MzCD0