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The Whitebeard crew attack the leaf village in place of Pain. The same scenario as the Pain arc axcept with the pirates in place of Pain and Konoha gets a good 2 hours of prep beforehand. Just as in the arc, Naruto will return some time into the attack with the same set up as in the manga.

Which side is victorious?

Proper response- cloak the thing in genjutsu so heavy none of the Pirates actually arrive

We've seen "you think you're going one way but you're not" style genjutsu before (genin team, forest of death) after all.

Whitebeard can destroy the entire village by himself.

Seriously, the Whitebeard Pirates walk through Konoha, and then Whitebeard gives Naruto an earth-shattering spanking.

With two hours prep, Kakashi will be there with his kamui ready. Even Whitebeard can't take a space-warping.

Also, mass genjutsu. Many put to sleep, those able to resist that under heavy illusions, and so on.

Danzo will be brought into the fray and with his Shisui's eye he may be able to turn one of the powerful Whitebeards. Yamanakas too.


Ninja are very much outpowered, but they do not have to fight power to power, they have and use indirect and more cheaty methods. People always forget they have mind-control abilities.

I don't think you quite understand what I am saying.

I am saying Whitebeard can turn Konoha upside down. Without actually being within five hundred meters of it.

He can do alot of damage to the villiage itself, but can he actually take out the shinobi themselves with that attack? Because it didn't seem to do much to the Marine forces when he ****ed up the island iirc.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He can do alot of damage to the villiage itself, but can he actually take out the shinobi themselves with that attack? Because it didn't seem to do much to the Marine forces when he ****ed up the island iirc.

In Whitebeard's defense, there were admirals and Giant Vice Admirals there. On top of that, some of the combatants were falling in the cracks.

I don't think anyone is surviving a haki or quake punch in Konoha though.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I don't think you quite understand what I am saying.

I am saying Whitebeard can turn Konoha upside down. Without actually being within five hundred meters of it.

Yes, I know this. And I am saying they have ways to deal with him, and they're not likely to want to engage that close to the village itself for that matter.

His ability to punch earthquakes doesn't change that they can use illusion and mental-control abilities to fight him in a far more indirect manner, as well as the odd ability that is a *direct* threat like Kamui.

I like the fact this is "exactly like when Pein attacked" except they get... Prep?

DON'T QUESTION TEH OP! GET OUT OF MY THREAD *****, GET OUT!

They'd be really screwed without the prep. It means they can get the right ninja for the job into position and prepare the battlefield.

Originally posted by Q99
Yes, I know this. And I am saying they have ways to deal with him, and they're not likely to want to engage that close to the village itself for that matter.

His ability to punch earthquakes doesn't change that they can use illusion and mental-control abilities to fight him in a far more indirect manner, as well as the odd ability that is a *direct* threat like Kamui. He could do it from a mile away.

Jozu could chuck gigantic boulders onto the village that would crush hundreds to thousands of ninja at once.

Marco is pretty much unkillable by the ninja, and faster than all of them.

This is not even taking into account every Whitebeard pirate. Which is admittedly hard to do, since we do not know the specifics of every individual crewmate.

Uh...can't Ace just stroll into town all on his lonesome and incinerate everyone?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Uh...can't Ace just stroll into town all on his lonesome and incinerate everyone?

No. Genjutsu, kamui, possession, mind control.

Hm, might be possible to slap him with a paralyzing seal too.





Ok, and they can also do genjutsu stuff from a significant distance and engage the Whitebeards from more than a mile away.

That's likely what the big nearby forest is for, for engaging enemy from a distance. It's right in the village name even.



Assuming he's not throwing it at the wrong place because the real location is hidden by illusion.

Also I think Tsunade could handle that one, or big teams of Earth-jutsu users working together.


We seem to be stuck in a loop here.
"They have indirect abilities so they don't have to deal with the Whitebeard's power,"
"But the Whitebeards have a lot of power!"

If the power the Whitebeards have cannot be directed or worse gets co-opted, then it's not a win.



He is one of the biggest threats. But even he's not unbeatable- What if Kakashi gets him with Kamui? Even he's not going to survive that.


Fu of Root is alive at this point too. If he (or Ace) burns a straw dummy and suddenly he finds himself in the dummy and Fu turns on the Whitebeards.

Or Danzo could control him with Shisui's eye (though Whitebeard would be the preferred and ultimate target for that). Or he gets caught in some other illusion thanks to Kurenai or one of the others.




Fortunately, the rank and file of the Whitebeard pirates didn't appear that badass, Marines and low-level Impel Down prisoners were able to do fine against them.

I think the ninja can handle those, especially with the home turf advantage of Konoha forest.

Pleeze, WB's haki alone takes 9/10s of konoha and their fodder ninja...

Originally posted by Bentley
Pleeze, WB's haki alone takes 9/10s of konoha and their fodder ninja...

Haki'd leave the ninja who'd be doing the useful stuff anyway, chunins and above. The ones who actually will have strong levels of genjutsu, possession, etc., or elemental jutsu that'll help mess up the bulk crew (take out the terrain under them and that kind of thing).

Similarly, most of the Whitebeard crew will be taken out by less powerful mass genjutsu like the sleep one used during the Sound invasion.


And even fodder will be setting up traps and so on with the prep time and probably a lot would be kept back in reserve.

Hm, come to think of it Whitebeard really didn't use his royal haki during Marineford for some reason.

Originally posted by Q99
Ok, and they can also do genjutsu stuff from a significant distance and engage the Whitebeards from more than a mile away.

That's likely what the big nearby forest is for, for engaging enemy from a distance. It's right in the village name even.

Assuming he's not throwing it at the wrong place because the real location is hidden by illusion.

Also I think Tsunade could handle that one, or big teams of Earth-jutsu users working together.

We seem to be stuck in a loop here.
"They have indirect abilities so they don't have to deal with the Whitebeard's power,"
"But the Whitebeards have a lot of power!"

If the power the Whitebeards have cannot be directed or worse gets co-opted, then it's not a win.

He is one of the biggest threats. But even he's not unbeatable- What if Kakashi gets him with Kamui? Even he's not going to survive that.

Fu of Root is alive at this point too. If he (or Ace) burns a straw dummy and suddenly he finds himself in the dummy and Fu turns on the Whitebeards.

Or Danzo could control him with Shisui's eye (though Whitebeard would be the preferred and ultimate target for that). Or he gets caught in some other illusion thanks to Kurenai or one of the others.

Fortunately, the rank and file of the Whitebeard pirates didn't appear that badass, Marines and low-level Impel Down prisoners were able to do fine against them.

I think the ninja can handle those, especially with the home turf advantage of Konoha forest. 1. Show me them ever using Genjutsu from over a mile away. Rare is the ninja who can fight from that distance.

Speculation.

2. When has Genjutsu ever been used to hide an entire village?

No, Tsunade could not. Tsunade's best strength feat does not begin to compare to Jozu's. Tsunade briefly wielded a four hundred ton tanto. Jozu easily lifted and chucked a million ton iceberg.

Only their admittedly more varied abilities would not help them here.

3. Why do you assume Kakashi can even perceive the speed Marco moves at? Marco has on-panel reacted to and deflected a light attack from Kizaru, making him one of the fastest One Piece characters, and much faster than anyone in Naruto.

I must admit I forget who Fu is.

Shisui's eye is best saved for Whitebeard, assuming Danzo survives the initial attack.

4. Each one is still a Grand Line pirate. The rank and file of Konoha would not even be able to handle Don Krieg, and low level? Buggy was on the first level of Impel Down, most of the thugs were from higher levels. And marines are not always weak either.

Seriously, the level of destructive power Whitebeard alone outputs is too much. With every movement, he was shaking and destroying Marineford, effortlessly.

Root plays the role of Ambush Squad with Kakashi assisting them. Danzo with Izanagi and should be able to survive an attack. All of them except Danzo of course would die the minute discovered but before that happens, they can do some good in taking out bigger threats. Except for Whitebeard of course who they'd have to hit with Shisui's eye in order to stand much chance at all winning.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Show me them ever using Genjutsu from over a mile away. Rare is the ninja who can fight from that distance.

They can get closer than a mile before doing it.

The ninja can leave the village to get closer to them, you know. That the surrounded forest is part of the defense is in the name.




As long as it's on the pirates, the size of the target doesn't matter much.

Remember the genjutsu trap in the chunin exam that prevented them from getting to the target? That took a mere three genin to do. Anyone trapped in that isn't getting closer to whereever they intend to travel to.




Except for genjutsu and possession and so on.

You pointed to using Haki to deal with ninja, what makes you think that that's useful while the Ninja's far greater range of mental affects is not?

It takes one pretty good genjutsu user to affect thousands (Sound invasion sleepy spell).




Kizaru's attacks have tells, they don't require moving at lightspeed to handle.

Even if you argue on react times, his *body* definitely does not move that crazy fast. Marco was not effectively teleporting around the battlefield orders of magnitude faster than the low-mach speed characters like Luffy. He himself moves at a speed that Kakashi can target.




One of Danzo's bodyguards, the one who took over Ao's body in order to destroy his Byakugan.

His ability is, if you kill a scarecrow he makes, then you end up in the dummy and he ends up in your body.



What if he does it before they attack?

It's a home field advantage with prep. They don't have to wait for the Pirates to attack first, they can launch pre-emptive strikes in their home territory.





I'll point out that strength doesn't affect mental resistance. Luffy easily falls prey to Miss Golden Week's paint, and many of them specifically were affected by Boa's charms.


Not that being stronger than Buggy is all that impressive. A nice Afternoon Tiger from Gai'll still blow away most of the riff-raff, as would big summons. And many of Whitebeard's rank and file crew fell to Haki, so I don't put their odds of shrugging off the mass sleep genjutsu at very hard.





And again, if the ninja didn't have ways to make that power not be applied against them that'd be decisive, but there's more to the fight than that and repeating that Whitebeard is strong won't change that.



Power only helps if it can be applied. 10 members of Ino's clan sneak up (perhaps with aid of other stealth-jutsu users, like an underground insertion, and under the confusion caused by genjutsu) and take over 10 of the highest officers they can see. They start wrecking havok in high-end One Piece strength level bodies who the crew will be reluctant to face. Ino's dad makes Jozu start rampaging wildly. Marco or Ace kills Fu's dummy and get taken over. Genjutsu users are making pirates see their own comrades as ninja attacking other comrades. Others get paralyzed in place.

Danzo walks in to the middle protected by Izanagi and Shisuis' Whitebeard.



That's something of a best-case but the point is they have a whole toolchest of what to do, stuff that will work against the pirates. "Get quaked, die," is not a situation that they have nothing to do against.

Power must be directed properly before it matters, and if it can be prevented from being directed, it's shear quality will not win a fight.

Originally posted by Q99
Haki'd leave the ninja who'd be doing the useful stuff anyway, chunins and above. The ones who actually will have strong levels of genjutsu, possession, etc., or elemental jutsu that'll help mess up the bulk crew (take out the terrain under them and that kind of thing).

Similarly, most of the Whitebeard crew will be taken out by less powerful mass genjutsu like the sleep one used during the Sound invasion.


And even fodder will be setting up traps and so on with the prep time and probably a lot would be kept back in reserve.

Hm, come to think of it Whitebeard really didn't use his royal haki during Marineford for some reason.


Nop. Tsunade has a weak*ss will, she would be koed by royal haki. Power and will power don't always go hand to hand, if WB koes 10 powerful ninjas doing exactly nothing, Konoha's chances are going to be much slimmer from the get to go.

Originally posted by Bentley
Nop. Tsunade has a weak*ss will, she would be koed by royal haki. Power and will power don't always go hand to hand, if WB koes 10 powerful ninjas doing exactly nothing, Konoha's chances are going to be much slimmer from the get to go.

The strong ninja we've seen all seem pretty good in the willpower to me. Once Tsunade regained herself I can't even see her being bothered by it.


While it's true strength and willpower don't directly correspond, it's going to be a rare fluke ninja indeed who can ensure the grueling trials required to make it up the ranks and not develop a strong will. Being able to keep your cool in a tough situation is a key ninja skill.

We're often talking veterans of hundreds, and in some cases over a thousand, of battles, and also undaunted by facing crazy powerful enemies like Pain and Hanzo, been exposed to enemy genjutsu on many occasions, see comrades die, and so on.

I could see it in the case of a kekkei genkai user or other with rare talent, or a support ninja, so even some of the useful specialists might go down, but probably not any of the strongest ones like Jonin or Root.

And if the battle foes on long enough, those hit by haki may be able to rejoin the fray, especially with outside assistance.

oh for the love of

Let's see you have a crew of people who **** on Gear 2nd Luffy speedwise and are top tiers in the OP verse against the weakest verse in the shounen trinity Whitebeard pirates stomp this.

With enough prep time and haxxed powers, Naruto can compete to a degree. It is the weakest though, obviously.

ok, this is kinda silly. White beard himself could win this...it would be tough, but his durability combined with his sear power and skill make him an impossible person to beat. The only things that could beat him are Kamui and Shisui's eye, but still, neither are a guarantied kill, and both are used at extreme risk. If Kamui misses, what 3 times? I forget, but kakashi can't do it infinite amount of times. And If he misses once, he is dead. Shisui's eye might end up killing white beard...but still, he could survive that encounter.

Now, even If they succeed in killing whitebeard, there are still the commanders, who, each could also probably solo the village...though admittedly much more difficult than white beard.

There is no chance Konoha can pull out a win.

Originally posted by menokokoro
ok, this is kinda silly. White beard himself could win this...it would be tough, but his durability combined with his sear power and skill make him an impossible person to beat. The only things that could beat him are Kamui and Shisui's eye, but still, neither are a guarantied kill, and both are used at extreme risk. If Kamui misses, what 3 times? I forget, but kakashi can't do it infinite amount of times. And If he misses once, he is dead. Shisui's eye might end up killing white beard...but still, he could survive that encounter.

Don't forget possession, either of Whitebeard himself or of someone on his crew who could kill him.

I think Kakashi might be able to handle 4 if he doesn't use chakra for other stuff... and keep in mind he doesn't really have to give himself away to use it, there's no obvious trace from the kamui user to where it hits. He can do it from hiding.


Also two more tricks: there's water jutsu, and the Whitebeards have a lot of devil fruit users. Being submerged will put down even uber people (maybe combined with Earth to move them into watery underground coffins where people can't rescue them).

And simple Henge. If ninja start looking like Whitebeards, they can sow confusion, get Whitebeards to attack each other, prevent the use of area effect attacks, and similar.



In a strait out fight they'd stand no chance, but with an hour's prep and using the correct powers they have a laundry list of cheats to avoid being hit with the Whitebeard's power, to turn it against other Whitebeard's, and to neutralize it.

Would Konoha know about the Devil Fruit weakness and who in the WB crew posseses powers?

Yes. Because apparantly they need as many advantages as they can. Also I'm bumping it up to 4 hours prep.

Originally posted by Q99
Don't forget possession, either of Whitebeard himself or of someone on his crew who could kill him.

I think Kakashi might be able to handle 4 if he doesn't use chakra for other stuff... and keep in mind he doesn't really have to give himself away to use it, there's no obvious trace from the kamui user to where it hits. He can do it from hiding.


Also two more tricks: there's water jutsu, and the Whitebeards have a lot of devil fruit users. Being submerged will put down even uber people (maybe combined with Earth to move them into watery underground coffins where people can't rescue them).

And simple Henge. If ninja start looking like Whitebeards, they can sow confusion, get Whitebeards to attack each other, prevent the use of area effect attacks, and similar.



In a strait out fight they'd stand no chance, but with an hour's prep and using the correct powers they have a laundry list of cheats to avoid being hit with the Whitebeard's power, to turn it against other Whitebeard's, and to neutralize it. All valid points, but like I said, none of that is a guaranteed win, and there are plenty of tough people who could take the place of whoever might have been taken out by techniques.

Originally posted by menokokoro
All valid points, but like I said, none of that is a guaranteed win, and there are plenty of tough people who could take the place of whoever might have been taken out by techniques.

Oh yes, it's definitely no *guaranteed* win, but with prep time, on their home turf, and with stealth and similar abilities giving them good chance of surprise? It's also no stomp.

Listen white beard will just destroy all of konoha with two stomps they can have all the prep they need theres no defence against that and also his other crew mates are just as powerful especially his second man with the pheonix fruit konoha has no chance

Originally posted by Radarock1971
Listen white beard will just destroy all of konoha with two stomps they can have all the prep they need theres no defence against that and also his other crew mates are just as powerful especially his second man with the pheonix fruit konoha has no chance

Read the thread.

That they have counters for people of tremendous power, such as possessing those uber-powerful people and genjutsu, has specifically come up.

Genjutsu only works on people with chakra which they dnt have so anyway.... Like i said he stomps twice and destroys all of konoha

Originally posted by Radarock1971
Genjutsu only works on people with chakra which they dnt have so anyway....

Genjutsu works by using chakra to seize control of the senses, including stuff without proper chakra.

Possession, we've seen it work on birds.

Originally posted by Q99
Genjutsu works by using chakra to seize control of the senses, including stuff without proper chakra.

Possession, we've seen it work on birds.

Um no actually genjutsu is used to disrupt the chakra in your opponents mind and creating illusions and like i said tbey have no chakra in their minds or bodies unlike in naruto where everything even animals have chakra so white beard pirates win

Originally posted by Radarock1971
Um no actually genjutsu is used to disrupt the chakra in your opponents mind and creating illusions and like i said tbey have no chakra in their minds or bodies unlike in naruto where everything even animals have chakra


If everything, even birds, have 'chakra', what makes you think the Whitebeards don't?

In the general sense it just means universal lifeforce. Only ninja have developed chakra, but "chakra" in the sense needed for genjutsu is just as basic to all living things. It's even described- just physical energy and spiritual energy, of which OP characters have both.

It's as universal as the Force in Star Wars, and we'd assume that'd still work in crossovers.

--

Anyway, with Genjutsu, they definitely have a chance.

No it doesnt work in both why is it so hard for you guys to get it through your thick heads people from one piece dnt have chakra it was never mentioned or said about anything having to do with life force so that means it doesnt exist in their world dnt say it exists without any proof or just saying it does because chakra is natural energy if they dnt mention it then they dnt have it end of point

Originally posted by Radarock1971
No it doesnt work in both why is it so hard for you guys to get it through your thick heads people from one piece dnt have chakra it was never mentioned or said about anything having to do with life force so that means it doesnt exist in their world dnt say it exists without any proof or just saying it does because chakra is natural energy if they dnt mention it then they dnt have it end of point


It's a universal thing. Like I mentioned, if we were talking Star Wars we wouldn't assume the Force wouldn't work.

OP might not use the world chakra, but they definitely have both physical and spirit energy. It doesn't need to be proper chakra (that is the combined version, which animals don't have) for it to work.


Also from another viewpoint- Genjutsu is one of ninja's three main abilities. Cut it out and you're nerfing them. Then it's Whitebeard Pirates vs Nerfed Ninja. Which is... well, yea, you nerf a side of one of it's main abilities and the one that'd be most useful in a fight! Of course it'd lose.

Listen its not my fault this guy put konoha peoplle with chakra vs white beard people without chakra im just commenting on it and people just cant say o chakra is natural energy with no proof can you show anyone natural energy can doctors remove chakra points from people can you prove it exists if you cant answer these then your statement is irrelevant i dnt go off of o everyone has chakra because its universal i go off of proof and facts and the fact is spiritual or universal energy or chakra has not bern mentioned or shown in one piece thus it doesnt exist

Originally posted by Radarock1971
Listen its not my fault this guy put konoha peoplle with chakra vs white beard people without chakra im just commenting on it and people just cant say o chakra is natural energy with no proof can you show anyone natural energy can doctors remove chakra points from people can you prove it exists if you cant answer these then your statement is irrelevant i dnt go off of o everyone has chakra because its universal i go off of proof and facts and the fact is spiritual or universal energy or chakra has not bern mentioned or shown in one piece thus it doesnt exist

One Piece pretty explicitly has both physical and spiritual energy. One, you have... well, physical energy. Of course, that exists in real life. Two, you have flat-out ghosts, you have stuff like haki, etc. etc..

That they use different words doesn't matter much.

--
Look, if something works universally in one setting on every living thing, the default assumption is it'll work in a crossover too. That's just the best way to do stuff if you want to hold debates.

Originally posted by Q99
One Piece pretty explicitly has both physical and spiritual energy. One, you have... well, physical energy. Of course, that exists in real life. Two, you have flat-out ghosts, you have stuff like haki, etc. etc..

That they use different words doesn't matter much.

--
Look, if something works universally in one setting on every living thing, the default assumption is it'll work in a crossover too. That's just the best way to do stuff if you want to hold debates.

Do you even watch one piece? Haki has nothing to do with spiritual energy number two there arent any ghosts in one piece except for that girl at thriller bark and thats a devil fruit power so its questionable if those are even real spirits or just a devil fruit power and spiritual energy is not a proved fact.. This is what your not getting you cant say something exists with no proof if this was court you would lose because just saying something over and over doesnt make it true if you can show me spiritual and universal energy and prove to me it exists until then your being irrelevant

Originally posted by Radarock1971
Do you even watch one piece? Haki has nothing to do with spiritual energy number two there arent any ghosts in one piece except for that girl at thriller bark and thats a devil fruit power so its questionable if those are even real spirits or just a devil fruit power and spiritual energy is not a proved fact..

Also Brook died and his spirit floated around for years before finding his body, let's not forget that.

And Zoro's spirit manifests itself as extra arms in his 9-sword style.

So three examples, minimum, not all of whom involve devil fruit.

I don't think it's strictly necessary to prove the point, something doesn't have to have active spiritual abilities for ninja mind-affecting powers to work (Ino possessed a random bird!), but the examples are there in any case.



I get what you're saying, I simply disagree with it.

The fact remains even without the multiple examples otherwise, genjutsu works on everything with a brain. It's a universal ability.


For versus battles, it makes sense to consider abilities universal between universes in addition to their own, even if the explanations are a bit different, because the point of a versus is to compare two side's full abilities.

It's not as fun if one side is automatically handicapped just for being put in a fight.

Originally posted by Q99
Also Brook died and his spirit floated around for years before finding his body, let's not forget that.

And Zoro's spirit manifests itself as extra arms in his 9-sword style.

So three examples, minimum, not all of whom involve devil fruit.

I don't think it's strictly necessary to prove the point, something doesn't have to have active spiritual abilities for ninja mind-affecting powers to work (Ino possessed a random bird!), but the examples are there in any case.



I get what you're saying, I simply disagree with it.

The fact remains even without the multiple examples otherwise, genjutsu works on everything with a brain. It's a universal ability.




For versus battles, it makes sense to consider abilities universal between universes in addition to their own, even if the explanations are a bit different, because the point of a versus is to compare two side's full abilities.

It's not as fun if one side is automatically handicapped just for being put in a fight.


You see that would be tru but its not fair to one piece because the only way to get out of genjutsu is with chakra and ninja abilities so its not fair in the first place you want to have genjutsu work on them but they dnt have the ability to get out how is that fair thats why im saying take out genjutsu and just leave ninjutsu thats enough for them since people in one piece only have one power while ninjutsu grants you multiple abilities

Like i said before do u watch one piece zolos asura mode has nothing to do with his spirit it was suggested and guessed that it was his spirit but nobody really knows

That thing with brook is also a devil fruit power so that doesnt count

Originally posted by Radarock1971
You see that would be tru but its not fair to one piece because the only way to get out of genjutsu is with chakra and ninja abilities so its not fair in the first place you want to have genjutsu work on them but they dnt have the ability to get out how is that fair thats why im saying take out genjutsu and just leave ninjutsu thats enough for them since people in one piece only have one power while ninjutsu grants you multiple abilities


Ah, that's where you're coming from.

But, consider, if it's universal, then defenses against other mental powers would apply as well, and while mental effects in OP aren't as common, they do exist, ala Ms. Goldenweek and Perona's ghosts (though those two were devastatingly effective, showing the power of mental effects in OP as well).


Remember how the Vice-Admiral resisted Boa's power in almost the same way Shikamaru resisted Tayuya's sonic Genjutsu? That'd be useable.

A shock to the system works against genjutsu too. I'd think releasing haki might have a similar effect- I definitely don't think any genjutsu short of Danzo's Shisui eye genjutsu would work on Whitebeard himself for more than a few seconds.



Also, some times some universes are just going to have abilities others aren't capable of defending against. Replace the ninja with Professor X and Emma Frost, or a whole ton of them. Plenty of universes are going to be screwed against that even if physically powerful. Same deal.

Originally posted by Q99
Ah, that's where you're coming from.

But, consider, if it's universal, then defenses against other mental powers would apply as well, and while mental effects in OP aren't as common, they do exist, ala Ms. Goldenweek and Perona's ghosts (though those two were devastatingly effective, showing the power of mental effects in OP as well).


Remember how the Vice-Admiral resisted Boa's power in almost the same way Shikamaru resisted Tayuya's sonic Genjutsu? That'd be useable.

A shock to the system works against genjutsu too. I'd think releasing haki might have a similar effect- I definitely don't think any genjutsu short of Danzo's Shisui eye genjutsu would work on Whitebeard himself for more than a few seconds.

Right because everyone on white beards crew has haki right lol and there are genjutsus that immobilize the body and first of all they wouldnt even know they were in a genjutsu in the first place like when kakashi used it on sakura so they cant defend anything they dnt know their in so thats why its unfair


Also, some times some universes are just going to have abilities others aren't capable of defending against. Replace the ninja with Professor X and Emma Frost, or a whole ton of them. Plenty of universes are going to be screwed against that even if physically powerful. Same deal.

They wouldnt even know they were in a genjustu in the first place like when kakashi used it on sakura so its no point in adding genjutsu because theycant defend against something they dnt know is happening

Uh...Whitebeard took getting half his face blown off with a lava fist as well as being stabbed and shot. Yet he still kept on going and didn't actually die until after Blackbeard showed up.

Unless it's Tsukyomi, I don't think genjutsu is the way to go for taking on Whitebeard. It could work on some of the other Whitebeard pirates.

Even if Whitebeard was taken out, Marco and Vista could probably finish up.

Im not saying itll defeat him im just saying all they would have to do is use a genjutsu for example that would make their allies look like the enemy and then theyll just fight each other and since they dnt know about tje fact they can use genjutsu or have a way to counter it they would be helpless thats y im saying its not fair because even if they dnt beat tjem they can use the genjutsu to keep them attacking any illusion they see thus causing them to lose energy

Originally posted by Radarock1971
Im not saying itll defeat him im just saying all they would have to do is use a genjutsu for example that would make their allies look like the enemy and then theyll just fight each other and since they dnt know about tje fact they can use genjutsu or have a way to counter it they would be helpless thats y im saying its not fair because even if they dnt beat tjem they can use the genjutsu to keep them attacking any illusion they see thus causing them to lose energy

I understan this much, I'm just saying that most of the genjutsu would only work on the grunts of the Whitebeard pirates. Hell...Having Whitebeard randomly attack shit would actually hurt Konoha more than it would help. If Marco and Ace are in this, then there really isn't anything Konoha can do to those guys so the Whitebeard pirates still wins....they just have to actually try during this bout.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I understan this much, I'm just saying that most of the genjutsu would only work on the grunts of the Whitebeard pirates. Hell...Having Whitebeard randomly attack shit would actually hurt Konoha more than it would help. If Marco and Ace are in this, then there really isn't anything Konoha can do to those guys so the Whitebeard pirates still wins....they just have to actually try during this bout.

I get what your saying

I like the way you think

Konoha

Nope Whitebeard pirates take this with their vastly superior speed, genjustu or not they have enough overall destructive power to handle this.

Originally posted by Q99
If everything, even birds, have 'chakra', what makes you think the Whitebeards don't?

In the general sense it just means universal lifeforce. Only ninja have developed chakra, but "chakra" in the sense needed for genjutsu is just as basic to all living things. It's even described- just physical energy and spiritual energy, of which OP characters have both.

It's as universal as the Force in Star Wars, and we'd assume that'd still work in crossovers.

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Anyway, with Genjutsu, they definitely have a chance.

Genjutsu would not work, since it doesn't mean "universal lifeforce." Remember, the Hermit's mom had to eat the 10 Tails' fruit in order to get chakra, which was then passed down to the Hermit, and down to all ninja. There was no 10 Tails fruit out there for anyone in OP to eat, so no one in OP has chakra, simple as that.

Mind jutsu do work on normal animals and such, though.

Chakra as in chakra powers, came from the fruit, but that doesn't seem to be a requirement to *hit* with a mind jutsu.