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pure skill. no healing factor for logan. who wins the swordfight?

does logan know his healing factor is off?

if he still has his adamantium skeleton then he wins

since batman doesn't kill, he won't stab logan through eye balls and heart, while batman being a better sword man I see logan winning by being stronger and more brutal

Originally posted by MrMind
since batman doesn't kill, he won't stab logan through eye balls and heart, while batman being a better sword man I see logan winning by being stronger, and more brutal why would batman be the better swords man?

i dont believe he has the equal training nor feats to make that statement true.

Originally posted by King Castle
why would batman be the better swords man?

i dont believe he has the equal training nor feats to make that statement true.
gone toe to toe with ras'al ghul in a sword fight.

wolverine would win this handily. He superior physically, vastly more experienced, better training and superior feats

but Ras Al Gul has no real sword feats and simply dropping his name means nothing, just b/c he is old doesnt mean he is significantly skilled.

what sword feats does Ras have against non canon fodder?

at least Wolverine has decades of sword fighting from Heroes, villains and fodder some significantly older then Ras..

do i need to name drop here?

Lazear angel of death
Ogun ancient Bushido Master turn Demon equal to the legendary Samurai Miyamoto Musashi.
He also fought the 7 greatest Samurais of Japan iirc.
the curse sword and spirit of Muramasa himself.

you get the jiff and aside from name dropping some of these guys actually have superior feats and panel character history above Ras.

Originally posted by King Castle
does logan know his healing factor is off? no

Blah Dick Grayson beat Ras too

Originally posted by iceman24567
Blah Dick Grayson beat Ras too
in a sword fight? I don't think so
I remember batman defeated ra in a sword fight in hush, ra got hundreds years of training in sword skill. wolverine's gonna win this fight but skill-wise batman is in the same league at least

no healing and enahnced stats/ adimantium skeleton? I see them being pretty even. now if logan gets his basic set, he would get a large majority.

Originally posted by MrMind
in a sword fight? I don't think so
I remember batman defeated ra in a sword fight in hush, ra got hundreds years of training in sword skill. wolverine's gonna win this fight but skill-wise batman is in the same league at least Yes he beat him in a sword fight maybe you shouldnt think fron now on?

Originally posted by iceman24567
Yes he beat him in a sword fight maybe you shouldnt think fron now on?
ok, which issue? I'll go check it out

Cant remember pretty sure it was post Final Crisis though

Batman would win Ras al ghul has lived way longer than Wolverine and trained in many more martial arts. If you want another guage of his skill hes fought evenly with Katana as well.

Logan is probably the best swordsmen in Marvel. The dude made Harada look like a chump.

aside from that Ras Al Ghul is old and has experience is a piss poor excuse when Logan has been fighting the angel of death who is far older then Ras Al Ghul with vast more experience as well..

so by the logic set before by one side with their reasoning then Logan wins handedly.

how old is the angel of death?

Not old enough for it to matter. Whenever Wolverine goes to Kun Lun and beats some people thats when the people can argue him beating someone older than Ras Al Ghul.

Originally posted by noir101
how old is the angel of death? he's death and an angel, his name is an anagram Azrael. think about it.

Originally posted by noir101
how old is the angel of death?
1000's of years old.

thats pretty old. how are his swords skills?

He a master swordsman of great skill

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
1000's of years old. how old were the Legendary samurais, Logan fought? and how many were there?

@ Noir

Wolverine is a Master Swordsmen and follower of Bushido trained by Ogun the mystic bushido, Ninja and sorceror Master several centries old.

nooo. i meant azrael. i know logans skills are great.

logan is phucked if he isn't aware his hf is gone

As usual Sas is talking out his behind. Both the angle of Death and Ogun are both older the Ras.

what does Kun lun have to do with anything?

Not to mention Wolverine has superior swordman feat to Ras and Batman.

Originally posted by noir101
nooo. i meant azrael. i know logans skills are great. Oh, he's is supposed to be highly skilled only losing to few mortals, Logan being one of them.

but Lazear is not the only long living being Wolverine has fought in bladed battle.

Logan has also fought Muramasa possessed jessica Drew. Muramasa was a lengendary sword maker of japan who put a portion of his soul into his cursed sword who possesses any who wields it with his fighting skills and personality.

Logan has decades of sword, blades, claws fighting feats to draw from here.

He also has fought and disarmed Elektra, as well as Shingen while fighting Lazear and Pandrea iirc her name right.

@ dum

just flag him for trolling.

Originally posted by Starscream M
logan is phucked if he isn't aware his hf is gone

i'm sure he will be aware when they first fight.

Originally posted by Starscream M
logan is phucked if he isn't aware his hf is gone
He not an idiot lol, he knows the difference between when he has a healing factor and when he does not

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
He not an idiot lol, he knows the difference between when he has a healing factor and when he does not he won't know till he gets cut man. and by then it'll give batman a huge advantage.

Originally posted by Starscream M
he won't know till he gets cut man. and by then it'll give batman a huge advantage.
Yes he will. His body feels completely different. He knows right away that his heal factor does not work. It not something that go unnotice

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Yes he will. His body feels completely different. He knows right away that his heal factor does not work. It not something that go unnotice what...where do you get this from? what issue?

Originally posted by Starscream M
what...where do you get this from? what issue? damn, how i hate you.

Wolverine gets temporarily light headed feeling the shift of his Healing factor being temporarily turned off. he recovers nearly immediately so it's not something one can capitalize on.

When sabretooth turned off Wolverine's healing Factor he became disoriented leaning on the wall. he punched it and soon realize his hand wasnt healing and that the feeling he felt was his healing factor being turned off.


He also keeps track of how effective his healing factor is at any given time when it is taxed, burned out and or turned off.

its happen enough times in comics that it isnt something he cant or doesnt notice seeing as a lot of villains pull that tactic it is only wise to master one of your mutant abilities especially if you are an X man of all ppl.

now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ul5ag1unCg

Originally posted by King Castle
damn, how i hate you.
can you put me on ignore...cuz you're annoying as hell with your snide little comments. Pls don't talk to me in the future, thx.

You guys act like little school girls

Originally posted by Starscream M
can you put me on ignore...cuz you're annoying as hell with your snide little comments. Pls don't talk to me in the future, thx. sure. but you need to stop playing around and learn your characters before passing false information and purposely lowballing skewing it isnt funny and its just trolling and baiting which has gotten old when it come with you.

what false information did I pass around?

Originally posted by iceman24567
You guys act like little school girls well, he started it...chair

but it's okay. i did as he requested. so it wont happen anymore, ignore.

Like an edge a sketch or control alt delete he's gone.

So have we come to the conclusion wolverine wins?

I mean we can compare training, experience and feats all of which along with physical stats goes to wolverine. Unlike Batman Wolverine has utilized a sword through out his career are various times. Not to mention he recently retrained his skills as well. When was the last time Batman trained with a sword? Let a lone with such a notable master like Silver Samurai?

Also Wolverine feats of swordmanship have been against not simply cannon fodder but notable characters like Sabre-toth (who he defeat 3 times with a sword), Silver Samurai ect.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
So have we come to the conclusion wolverine wins?

I mean we can compare training, experience and feats all of which along with physical stats goes to wolverine. Unlike Batman Wolverine has utilized a sword through out his career are various times. Not to mention he recently retrained his skills as well. When was the last time Batman trained with a sword? Let a lone with such a notable master like Silver Samurai? he fought Ras and Katana

that is all the feats he needs right there those names alone carry with it decades of sword feats superior to wolverine sword history.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Not old enough for it to matter. Whenever Wolverine goes to Kun Lun and beats some people thats when the people can argue him beating someone older than Ras Al Ghul. Ras is 800 years old. it's safe to assume the angel is much much older than he is. Not that this means anything since age isnt a feat and doesnt automatically translate into fighting prowess. logan's 4 times older than batamn and much more experienced btw.

*********

now, as far as their mastery over swordfighting is concerned, they're likely in the same weight class, but Logan has the better feats and is much more ruthless, so I'll going with him

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Logan is probably the best swordsmen in Marvel. The dude made Harada look like a chump. Better then say Taskmaster ?.

i would say, yes.

Taskmaster is a mishmash of various skills not a Master of said art form.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Batman would win Ras al ghul has lived way longer than Wolverine and trained in many more martial arts. If you want another guage of his skill hes fought evenly with Katana as well.

Is there EVER a time when you don't leave the posting you do up to your ass?

Yo.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Logan is probably the best swordsmen in Marvel. The dude made Harada look like a chump.

so U think Logan is a better swordsman than guys like the Black Knight, Hawkeye, and even the Swordsman??

interesting...........

as for the fight, I lean towards giving Bats the win since Logan has none of his benefits & never impressed me to any great extent w/his sword skills........




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



so U think Logan is a better swordsman than guys like the Black Knight, Hawkeye, and even the Swordsman??

interesting...........

as for the fight, I lean towards giving Bats the win since Logan has none of his benefits & never impressed me to any great extent w/his sword skills........





Tazer
He would destroy hawlkeye in a sword fight it would not even be very close.




What has bats done? You do realize Wolverine has the superior swordmanship feats like beat sabre-tooth while wielding one several times, beating silver samurai ect.

Originally posted by King Castle
i would say, yes.

Taskmaster is a mishmash of various skills not a Master of said art form. Weak argument there are no sword skills that logan has that Taskmaster has not learned or would not learn in the first minute of seeing them.

Taskmaster was fighting gods blade to blade in siege taskmaster is a minimum top 5 swordsman in the marvel universe.

Originally posted by godking
Weak argument there are no sword skills that logan has that Taskmaster has not learned or would not learn in the first minute of seeing them.

Taskmaster was fighting gods blade to blade in siege taskmaster is a minimum top 5 swordsman in the marvel universe.

Taskmaster never seems able to do his skills as good as the person doing them. So he cna copy them all day, but he not gunna become better then Wolverine at them. (however he very well could already be better at sword fighting it debatable)





That mean almost nothing, he was fighting cannon fodder who happen to be god, nothing more nothing less.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
He would destroy hawlkeye in a sword fight it would not even be very close.




What has bats done? You do realize Wolverine has the superior swordmanship feats like beat sabre-tooth while wielding one several times, beating silver samurai ect. sabretooth not a sword fighter...so beating him with a sword is not that impressive

silver sam tends to job a bit

HE has inferior status, I don't think a fight against Logan in such condition is fair. Clint however, it's still a master swordsman.

Originally posted by Starscream M
sabretooth not a sword fighter...so beating him with a sword is not that impressive

silver sam tends to job a bit

How is beating sabre-tooth through swordman ship not impessive? I bet almost no one on the list has taken it to someone as dangerous as sabre-tooth with a sword and won through his skills with it, nor as many times.






Really like when?

Originally posted by Bentley
HE has inferior status, I don't think a fight against Logan in such condition is fair. Clint however, it's still a master swordsman.
If clint feats arnt impressive when compared to wolverine who taken down sabre-tooth several times with swordmanship. Taken vermin and Blood scream pwning them ect.

Few characters have such impressive swordmenship feats nor against such established characters.

HoM T'challa beat Sabretooth with a sword


I know, I know, but still...

Originally posted by Bentley
HoM T'challa beat Sabretooth with a sword


I know, I know, but still...
lol

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
How is beating sabre-tooth through swordman ship not impessive? I bet almost no one on the list has taken it to someone as dangerous as sabre-tooth with a sword and won through his skills with it, nor as many times.






Really like when? how many ppl have really faced sabretooth with a sword?

I think for example, taskmaster would do very well with a sword against creed

Originally posted by Starscream M
how many ppl have really faced sabretooth with a sword?

I think for example, taskmaster would do very well with a sword against creed




really? make that thread then son. Becuase he get utterly raped. Trying to low ball wolveirne feat is just sad. But go right a head make the thread always fun watching you make a fool of your self.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
really? make that thread then son. Becuase he get utterly raped. Trying to low ball wolveirne feat is just sad. But go right a head make the thread always fun watching you make a fool of your self. lol taskmaster with an adamantium sword would not get raped by creed (also, Im a bigger creed fan than you, so its funny you're accusing me of lowballing)

Neither is anything to write home about In Re: Sword fighting

Originally posted by Starscream M
lol taskmaster with an adamantium sword would not get raped by creed (also, Im a bigger creed fan than you, so its funny you're accusing me of lowballing)



Yes he would and I find it amusing it switch to an adamatium sword. Wolverine did it with normals swords.



You are low balling him, make the thread you will be laughed at. He would get maulled by sabre-tooth.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Taskmaster never seems able to do his skills as good as the person doing them. So he cna copy them all day, but he not gunna become better then Wolverine at them. (however he very well could already be better at sword fighting it debatable)





That mean almost nothing, he was fighting cannon fodder who happen to be god, nothing more nothing less.

Actually he does the moves he copies as good as the oryginals would on their best day. It's just that he has to study guys for a long time, if he wants to know all of their tricks. And he can't help it if he's just slower (well, there's that speed amp thing, but that's a temporary boost).

What he says, Tasky copies the moves as in the moment they were used.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Actually he does the moves he copies as good as the oryginals would on their best day. It's just that he has to study guys for a long time, if he wants to know all of their tricks. And he can't help it if he's just slower (well, there's that speed amp thing, but that's a temporary boost).
I know he suposed to be as good, but it never seems to be the way when he fights them. Perhaps it simply his speed, but I don't know to me it seems like a near flawless copy, but the original is slighty better.

Tasky isn't that fast.

Taskmaster's flaws come from the fact that he is more of an shameless opportunist than a villain. He doesn't have any real goals, and his motivations are all monetary. If his back is against a wall he won't work harder for a win, he'll look for an exit and move on to the next pay check.

The guy ciught a bullet with his bare hand Photoreflexes or not that takes some crazy speed.

Originally posted by SamZED
The guy ciught a bullet with his bare hand Photoreflexes or not that takes some crazy speed.

Did he see Ozzymandias?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Taskmaster's flaws come from the fact that he is more of an shameless opportunist than a villain. He doesn't have any real goals, and his motivations are all monetary. If his back is against a wall he won't work harder for a win, he'll look for an exit and move on to the next pay check.


I agree, he's an epic slacker.

Yo.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
He would destroy hawlkeye in a sword fight it would not even be very close.

What has bats done? You do realize Wolverine has the superior swordmanship feats like beat sabre-tooth while wielding one several times, beating silver samurai ect.

thats a matter of opinion, not based on fact. I know that Clint learned swordsmanship from the Swordsman, who was acknowledged to have been an *excellent* swordsman; who taught Logan? do they have equal or higher credentials?

how does beating Sabretooth = " superior swordmanship feats"?? when was 'tooth *ever* regarded as a monster when using a sword? and as I recall, he didnt beat S.Samurai using a sword, but instead used his claws (correct me if Im wrong here, its been awhile).

so, color me non-impressed with his wins over a non-swordsman & a guy he beat using his claws................ /shrug




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



thats a matter of opinion, not based on fact. I know that Clint learned swordsmanship from the Swordsman, who was acknowledged to have been an *excellent* swordsman; who taught Logan? do they have equal or higher credentials?

how does beating Sabretooth = " superior swordmanship feats"?? when was 'tooth *ever* regarded as a monster when using a sword? and as I recall, he didnt beat S.Samurai using a sword, but instead used his claws (correct me if Im wrong here, its been awhile).

so, color me non-impressed with his wins over a non-swordsman & a guy he beat using his claws................ /shrug




Tazer

...

...

...

Who trained Logan? Seriously? Logan was trained by Ogun, an immortal, centuries old samurai who killed Musashi Miyamoto in a duel.

And Wolverine's beat Samurai in pure sword v sword matches as well.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Ogun, an immortal, centuries old samurai who killed Musashi Miyamoto in a duel.

Are you sure?

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



thats a matter of opinion, not based on fact. I know that Clint learned swordsmanship from the Swordsman, who was acknowledged to have been an *excellent* swordsman; who taught Logan? do they have equal or higher credentials?

how does beating Sabretooth = " superior swordmanship feats"?? when was 'tooth *ever* regarded as a monster when using a sword? and as I recall, he didnt beat S.Samurai using a sword, but instead used his claws (correct me if Im wrong here, its been awhile).

so, color me non-impressed with his wins over a non-swordsman & a guy he beat using his claws................ /shrug




Tazer

Among others, f****** OGUN taught Logan

Dum Dum was talking about the sparring Harada and Logan had in Origins.

Logan had half of a bokken while SS had two. Wolverine humiliated him using just the hilt.

Originally posted by Bentley
Did he see Ozzymandias?




I agree, he's an epic slacker.
Didn't he accuse Deadpool of the same thing though?

IIRC he said that Deadpool's insanity wasn't what beat him, he was just 'that good', but that unless he took things seriously he'd never reach full potential.

batman

Cap is better than Logan with guns by simply being Captain America and Batman is better with swords by simply being the Goddamn Batman.

Typical. *sigh*

He's just the god damn batman.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cap is better than Logan with guns by simply being Captain America and Batman is better with swords by simply being the Goddamn Batman.

Typical. *sigh* Logan sucks man, just accept it.

Yo.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
...

...

...

Who trained Logan? Seriously? Logan was trained by Ogun, an immortal, centuries old samurai who killed Musashi Miyamoto in a duel.

And Wolverine's beat Samurai in pure sword v sword matches as well.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Among others, f****** OGUN taught Logan

Dum Dum was talking about the sparring Harada and Logan had in Origins.

Logan had half of a bokken while SS had two. Wolverine humiliated him using just the hilt.

ok, fair enuff...........however I still dont think Logan beating SS (or that having Ogun as his sensei) makes it an obvious indicator that he'd beat Batman




Tazer

Logan probably.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Not old enough for it to matter. Whenever Wolverine goes to Kun Lun and beats some people thats when the people can argue him beating someone older than Ras Al Ghul.

What does age matter? Thor is Very Old, and has been fighting for thousands of years..yet he's not as sklled as Elektra, or Daredevil.

Originally posted by Juk3n
What does age matter? Thor is Very Old, and has been fighting for thousands of years..yet he's not as sklled as Elektra, or Daredevil. When Elektra and Daredevil beat loki and fenris up with their bare hands ill agree with you.

Originally posted by Damborgson
When Elektra and Daredevil beat loki and fenris up with their bare hands ill agree with you. Him beating up Loki or Fenris is irrelevant to the point he was trying to make

that Batman > Ironfist >>>>> Wolverine?

umm hes the goddamn batman? theres no need for any debate here

the goddamn Batman is going to get impaled by a sword due to lack of sword feats on par to Logan's and also lacking the superhuman attributes.

batman doesnt need sword feats *****!

Batman lacks the ferocity to match Wolverine. Jean Paul Valley/Batman would be different, but then what he gains in ferocity he looses in the overall ability of Bruce Wayne/Batman.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Him beating up Loki or Fenris is irrelevant to the point he was trying to make I dont see how. He said that just because Thor is thousands of years old does not mean he is as skilled as Elektra or Daredevil, I disagreed and said Thor beating 2 gods to a pulp with his bare hands is why. I see no irrelevancy.

Originally posted by Damborgson
I dont see how. He said that just because Thor is thousands of years old does not mean he is as skilled as Elektra or Daredevil, I disagreed and said Thor beating 2 gods to a pulp with his bare hands is why. I see no irrelevancy.

It's irrelevance because neither Loki or Fenris are skilled fighters?

If Thor was placed in a human body Daredevil or Elektra or Shang-Chi or Nightwing or Punisher or anyone of a hundred different street level characters would effortless fold him like a lawn chair in a fight.

Originally posted by Damborgson
I dont see how. He said that just because Thor is thousands of years old does not mean he is as skilled as Elektra or Daredevil, I disagreed and said Thor beating 2 gods to a pulp with his bare hands is why. I see no irrelevancy. How is Thor beating Loki and Fenris a skill feat? You wont ever be able to prove that Thor is on Elektra or Daredevils level skillwise thats just insane

Originally posted by iceman24567
How is Thor beating Loki and Fenris a skill feat? You wont ever be able to prove that Thor is on Elektra or Daredevils level skillwise thats just insane He beat the god of mischief and his son both using mjolnir equivalent weapons while not having his own weapon and protecting the life of Captain America and Iron Man. You tell me how that's a skill feat. The god of thunder not being as skilled as two mortal heroes. Doesn't sound to insane to me. Thor just chooses to use brute foorce instead of skill because usually thats all he needs. When he wants to he does this. : http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan31.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan32.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan34.jpg

Or this: http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/JuggernautvsThor7.jpg

He's very skilled. Just when he chooses to be.

if you want to show off his fighting skills use ones when he is depowered and his fellow heroes are impressed.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It's irrelevance because neither Loki or Fenris are skilled fighters?

If Thor was placed in a human body Daredevil or Elektra or Shang-Chi or Nightwing or Punisher or anyone of a hundred different street level characters would effortless fold him like a lawn chair in a fight. Loki defeated the Disir by himself. One Disir was able to take down Mephistos best demons. Loki took them down and recieved only mild cuts and scratches. He brought them to their knees, the valkyries of Bor. Thor is just more skilled than Loki, that why he beat him even when Loki had an uru weapon and Thor didnt. When Thor has fought in mortal form he knows that he HAS to rely on skill and not so much brute force. :http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSkill01491.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSkill02.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSkill03.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSkill04.jpg

Originally posted by King Castle
if you want to show off his fighting skills use ones when he is depowered and his fellow heroes are impressed. How bout this? Cap wasnt really impressed but he was down and Thor saved him. http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSkill09496.jpg

there you go...

i agree that thor prefers a certain style which fully utilizes his strength and durability to how Hercules fights but when he has to he is a skilled fighter with millennium of combat knowledge combined with his superior depowere attributes he is still above a peak human makes him a dangerous fighter even to guys like DD which i think he can still hammer bash

Originally posted by King Castle
there you go...

i agree that thor prefers a certain style which fully utilizes his strength and durability to how Hercules fights but when he has to he is a skilled fighter with millennium of combat knowledge combined with his superior depowere attributes he is still above a peak human makes him a dangerous fighter even to guys like DD which i think he can still hammer bash Agreed.

Nobody ever said Thor wasnt skilled in h2h but he isnt as skilled as the high ranked martial artist like Elektra or Shang Chi. None of the links you posted shows he is on their level of skill

Originally posted by iceman24567
Nobody ever said Thor wasnt skilled in h2h but he isnt as skilled as the high ranked martial artist like Elektra or Shang Chi. None of the links you posted shows he is on their level of skill Actually srankmissingnin seems to think of him as a pretty mediocre fighter. If he think Thor will be "folded like a lawn chair." Defeating the god who took down the Disir single handedly, and his son at the same time with his bare hands, handling the juggernaut like he was an amateur fighter, making absorbing man his ***** (he was litterally to skilled to be hit.) still does not make you think him superior to Daredevil? -sigh- Okay whatever. Its not a big deal anyway, I doubt we can come to an agreement so we are pretty much done here. BTW this is what cap thinks of Thor. http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/Bio6.jpg

Lol Juggs? Absorbing Man? Well Creel has some boxing skill but take away his powers and Wildcat would destroy him in 1 round Daredevil would only need seconds. Hell no Thors isnt superior to Daredevil in skill we cant agree because you are horribly wrong.

Originally posted by Damborgson
He beat the god of mischief and his son both using mjolnir equivalent weapons while not having his own weapon and protecting the life of Captain America and Iron Man. You tell me how that's a skill feat. The god of thunder not being as skilled as two mortal heroes. Doesn't sound to insane to me. Thor just chooses to use brute foorce instead of skill because usually thats all he needs. When he wants to he does this. : http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan31.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan32.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan34.jpg

Or this: http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/JuggernautvsThor7.jpg

He's very skilled. Just when he chooses to be.

Just a tip, but if you are going to try and make an argument that Thor is more skilled than Daredevil then you should maybe cite examples that don't evolve him in an extended fight with character who got his ass beat and his boxing career ruined by Matt's middle aged, over hill drunk of a father.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Lol Juggs? Absorbing Man? Well Creel has some boxing skill but take away his powers and Wildcat would destroy him in 1 round Daredevil would only need seconds. Hell no Thors isnt superior to Daredevil in skill we cant agree because you are horribly wrong. "we cant agree because you are horribly wrong." Such an ego. But your right it all makes sense if we look at it your way. A well trained mortal is more skilled than a god with centuries experience in war. You think Juggs is an easy feat or something? He's a good fighter and even without his shields not taken down easily. To Thor he is nothing. You right about Creel though, his skill isnt very impressive. Regardless of this plz show me a scan that tops Thor being able to take down the god who shamed the Disir, or something more impressive than Thor being able to Stalemate Zeus for months. No way Thor couldve matched Zeus power for power, he had to use skill.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Just a tip, but if you are going to try and make an argument that Thor is more skilled than Daredevil then you should maybe cite examples that don't evolve him in an extended fight with character who got his ass beat and his boxing career ruined by Matt's middle aged, over hill drunk of a father. Good for Matt's dad. But unless he was drunk during the fight or already so intoxicated his liver was failing as he was fighting and his brain had been damaged from the excess of alcohol I see no relevancy at pointing out that he was a drunk. So's Hercules and he seems to do okay with himself. Creel was given the power to Hurt Thor. He did not have this power without gaining a high amount of invulnerability. That is why the fight lasted as long as it did. You saw what happened when Thor got down to it, not one shot was landed, plus this is still Thor using his normal amount of restraint to not kill a mortal.

This is a bogus category, I am a Batman fan and I want to see him challenged, and while I thoroughly believe under the right circumstances and a little bit of luck on his side the Dark Knight will prevail against Wolvie. My main ***** about this topic is by removing Logan's healing factor, your making it a handycapped match... that is totally lame. If Batman can beat Superman in all his glory with ALL his powers, he can do the same with Wolverine. He'd probably use the Magneto trick once he figures out that Logan's bones don't break, and that first match will be a LOSS for the Caped Crusader, but he will do what he always does and crawl back into his cave to lick his wounds and plot how to best beat his opponent. With the knowledge of Wolvie's adamantium skeleton he will likely use an attack involving a super powered magnet. Remember Batman fights dirty and aint afraid to cheat. Don't misjudge or underestimate Batman, by making this a handycapped match where Logan has no healing factor, dude that's just insulting to the Dark Knight, and a let down to all comic fans who are dying to see a Wolvie/Batman crossover someday. There I said my piece. You'll probably remove this post but ah well.

Originally posted by Damborgson
"we cant agree because you are horribly wrong." Such an ego. But your right it all makes sense if we look at it your way. A well trained mortal is more skilled than a god with centuries experience in war. You think Juggs is an easy feat or something? He's a good fighter and even without his shields not taken down easily. To Thor he is nothing. You right about Creel though, his skill isnt very impressive. Regardless of this plz show me a scan that tops Thor being able to take down the god who shamed the Disir, or something more impressive than Thor being able to Stalemate Zeus for months. No way Thor couldve matched Zeus power for power, he had to use skill. Its not me having an ego its you being ignorant and not have the common knowledge that 90% of the comic vs forum has. Well trained? Elektra and Daredevil are not well trained they are masters at h2h combat not experts but MASTERS in various forms. You can be a god with 100's or even 1000's of years of experience and still not be a master. Experience doesnt equate to skill. Again I never said Thor wasnt skilled why you keep acting as if I did im not sure but he is not as skilled as the high calibre martial artist in comics thats just fact. For his weight class Thor is near the top I dont see to many herald level beings above him in skill I have read enough Thor to know his skill level

Originally posted by iceman24567
Its not me having an ego its you being ignorant and not have the common knowledge that 90% of the comic vs forum has. Well trained? Elektra and Daredevil are not well trained they are masters at h2h combat not experts but MASTERS in various forms. You can be a god with 100's or even 1000's of years of experience and still not be a master. Experience doesnt equate to skill. Again I never said Thor wasnt skilled why you keep acting as if I did im not sure but he is not as skilled as the high calibre martial artist in comics thats just fact. For his weight class Thor is near the top I dont see to many herald level beings above him in skill I have read enough Thor to know his skill level The fact that you have not given me a single example makes me doubt you. You keep on going on this rant on how Daredevil is such a master and I believe you because I have always known this but I asked you what has he done that tops Thor, and you ignored it by saying it was common knowledge. Well people believing him to be so skilled did not come out of nowhere so unless you give an example of some sort your argument carries s very little weight. There is no reason anybody should believe you when you have nothing that backs it up. An expert in hand to hand? So's Thor. While you say experience does not equal skill, skill can only come through experience. Dare Devil has plenty of it, Thor has more. I know you say Thor is skilled. Youve said 2 or 3 times now. You simply believe Daredevil is more skilled correct? I believe that is insane. This is my opinion and without feats to back it up I would look very stupid to precisely people like you. But I have backed it up and ill do it again now. http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/ThordefeatsGrog3.jpg?t=1298140658

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/ThordefeatsGrog5.jpg?t=1298140658

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/ThordefeatsGrog6.jpg?t=1298140696

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/ThordefeatsGrog7.jpg?t=1298140715

He had been weakened and tortured half to death.

Here he takes down the hulk and thing without the odinforce and while only having one arm and eye.

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/Thorvseverybody6.jpg?t=1298140826

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/Thorvseverybody7.jpg?t=1298140826

See? I back up what I to not sound ignorant. Lets have you give it a try.

You have not backed up anything you post scans that dont prove he is as skilled as Daredevil or Batman better to post nothing than irrelevant shit. I dont care if you doubt me your comic knowledge is obviously lacking back on topic since adressing how little you know is pointless . Wolverine wins

it should have never bn sidetracked in the 1st place.

Wolverine slices Batman, and Batman heals around the sword. Wolverine now has no sword and dies. He doesn't care about these rules here; He's Batman.

Originally posted by King Castle
it should have never bn sidetracked in the 1st place. You are correct blind ignorance irks me I couldnt resist

Originally posted by iceman24567
You have not backed up anything you post scans that dont prove he is as skilled as Daredevil or Batman better to post nothing than irrelevant shit. I dont care if you doubt me your comic knowledge is obviously lacking back on topic since adressing how little you know is pointless . Wolverine wins I think you need to look up what irrelevancy means. Oh please. You didnt have anything that could beat what I posted so just tried to dismiss me. Im fine with that. I prefer not to debate with people like you. Cant argue with idiots. If you had indeed backed up what you said I said i would admit your right depending on what you posted. Im big enough to admit when im wrong. You are obviously not. So okay cya.

Originally posted by King Castle
it should have never bn sidetracked in the 1st place. you are right. Sorry bout that.

Originally posted by Damborgson
I think you need to look up what irrelevancy means. Oh please. You didnt have anything that could beat what I posted so just tried to dismiss me. Im fine with that. I prefer not to debate with people like you. Cant argue with idiots. If you had indeed backed up what you said I said i would admit your right depending on what you posted. Im big enough to admit when im wrong. You are obviously not. So okay cya. I dismissed the scans because they didnt help you argument I suppose you think Balder and the warriors Three are also Daredevil level skillwise? You wanted me to find feat with street level people fighting class 50+ characters? And Im the idiot the newer members are horribly

Edit

Originally posted by iceman24567
I dismissed the scans because they didnt help you argument I suppose you think Balder and the warriors Three are also Daredevil level skillwise? You wanted me to find feat with street level people fighting class 50+ characters? And Im the idiot the newer members are horribly No i dont. They dont have the feats. Of course not. Daredevil is a human. I dont expect you to give me a scan where he beats ares half to death or something. Just something showing his supreme amount of skill. You showed nothing. Why should I believe what you are saying with nothing to back it up? But that's enough. If you want to keep talking we can but via private message. No need to spam this up any further.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Taskmaster's flaws come from the fact that he is more of an shameless opportunist than a villain. He doesn't have any real goals, and his motivations are all monetary. If his back is against a wall he won't work harder for a win, he'll look for an exit and move on to the next pay check.

And the few times that he DOES look harder for the win though, people get WRECKED.

Anyways...


Big lulz @ this thread. So lemme see if I can get this straight....
Batman's skilled at swordsmanship because he beat Raz.
Raz al'ghul is skilled in swordsmanship because he's really reallllly old.... (and maybe because he beat Bane in a sword duel?)

Soooooo then Batman can beat Wolverine because Raz is likely a better swordsman than Wolverine based on the fact that he's really realllly old, even though Batman beating Raz already puts the age=skills idea to rest?


Swwwweeeeeeeeeeeeet circular reasoning we got goin on here.


Sorry but I'm thinkin if Bane could last more than several panels in a fencing fight with Raz after only reading a couple of fencing books in prison, mayyyyybe, just maybe, beating Raz isn't so much a feat....

Butthat'sjustme.

K... anywho... well Wolverine's owned Sabretooth, Bloodscream, and Shogun with a sword. So he's obviously able to used swordsmanship on a level that allows him to fight old, supermanly fast, and skilled fighters to an immediate and decisive advantage.
Upon taking the Muramasa, he diced up the latest Shiva droid with an EXTREME amount of ease. The Shiva program has multiple built in adaptive defense patterns to Wolverine's fighting abilities and every one of weapon X's files on Wolvie to draw from... the fact that he so easily put down a Shiva droid with his sword when the last Shiva droid put him through a pro-longed drawn out melee might even be an indication that he's much more effective or effecient at sword fighting in some respects than his typical melee-mode fighting.

Against sword weilding opponents:
He's disarmed Ogun, Azrael, Bloodscream, from their swords and owned them immediately after. Did pretty much the same with Deadpool.
Owned Shatterstar, took Black Knight to a draw (in spite of underestimating his sword), overwhelmed Swordsman, utterly annihilated Crusader, and took down the Shisengumi, the deadliest samurai to ever walk the earth who could only be killed by headshots...... ALL OF THESE FIGHTS he accomplished these feats without taking a single flush or solid hit. So he's obviously able to negotiate well trained swordsman and their offensive capabilities.

THEN you have his actual sword fights with swordsmen, fighting Shingen while drugged and rusty in swordsmanship, WHILE Shingen was cheating and able to parry and respond for a portion of the fight, able to draw Deathstrike out in a prolonged swordfight even though he wasn't looking for one, and able to outright humiliate Silver Samurai after brushing up on his sword skills.

On top of all this he has crazy random sword feats like resheathing a sword to a scabbard on a blitzing Elektra's back without harming her with a lunging throw, and using another thrown sword to take out a plane or training blindfolded, taking down multiple opponents with a wooden practice sword:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4711/fightingblindfc4.jpg

At the end of the day Wolverine has the feats offensively and defensively dealing with swords, and swordsmanship. When bladed weapons are the staple of your character one thinks that's typically what's bound to happen.

AND, just because Wolverine loses his healing factor doesn't mean he can't take a shot. Even without the healing factor, Wolverine has Punisher level damage soak if not more. Sinister had to roast him completely weeks after Wolverine had been effected by AD poisoning and he was STILL having issues putting Logan down.
It's not beyond Logan's ability to just tank some shots and close the distance on Bruce to kill him ala Rob Roy style, and it's definitely MORE LIKELY that he'll just flat out be better than Bruce in swordsmanship to begin with....


But Batman wins........

http://seekersofthebat.com/wp-content/uploads/BatmanWins.jpg

Stop calling him Raz.

Nu-uh... I will when they stop pronouncing it that way.








Anyways, as for this whole Thor mess.... ehhhhh yeah. No one said Thor isn't a skilled warrior. Of course he is. Even a street brawler is going to develop skillsets in fighting that are effective and invaluable if not refined. Thor obviously takes that principle and fact to another level altogether... not that I'm calling him a brawler but I digress.

Bottem line is that MA's in comics are a different kind of animal. If you're a non fodder character in comics noted for your skill then it's probably because that skill has been refined and developed to an uber level that can't be mirrored by people who rely on their powers.
As Wolverine once stated: Street levels have to be the best because their livelyhood depends on it.
As such, MA's in comics are going to be portrayed more skilled than guys like Herc, and Thor. It doesn't make the most sense IMO but that's how it is.

Bringing up a bunch of tough guys that Thor has fought doesn't really show him on a level of skill comparable to guys like DD.

Beating Fenris and Loki up at the same time? Yeah let me prepare to drop my jaw to the floor for that one.
For one we have Fenris who's supposed to have a lot of hype for himself but has never done anything of note in h2h but get his ass handed to him. He has virtually no skill almost non existant levels of h2h experience compared to Thor, and is not proven anywhere near as fast or agile as Thor either. Then there's Loki, who has only ever been described as a decent sword fighter, who doesn't typically engage in melee confrontations, and is once again physically outclassed by Thor to begin with.
AND THEN we have the fact that Captain America was beating on both of these guys in the same time span.... So yeah, the fact that Thor overwhelmed these two in h2h combat, while still impressive, doesn't show a level of skill on par with high tier MA's.

The fact is that Thor is a physically domineering opponent to most of the people he fights. Even if he doesn't outclass them in strength and durability, he's faster, or he's more agile, or their mindless beasts etc etc. When he does get put up against an opponent who physically outclasses him he tends to revert to mjolnir pretty damned quickly.

Guys like Cap, Daredevil, and Wolverine all have long laundry lists of taking on opponents who outclass them in EVERY. PHYSICAL. ASPECT. they bring to the game, and STILL winning in convincing fasion. We can deduce that their victory comes by way of skill because it necessarily can not be a product of anything else.
Not only this but the degree of lopsidedness between these characters is at times staggering. We're talking about these MA's taking down guys who are literally 100 times stronger than they are and more durable and going down to pressure points, stun kicks etc. These guys get noted for their skill by reputation, through Marvel stats, and in performance against OTHER characters who are largely noted for an ability in skilled fighting as well.

This isn't how Thor is portrayed, he's a warrior and he has his moments, sure, but they are not bullet points that define his career. Even Spiderman's used pressure points on superhumans, doesn't make him Daredevil in skill.

And if Thor WAS near DD in skill he wouldn't be getting danced around and/or bewildered by Cap every time they fight. The first time they went toe to toe Thor equated Cap's skill to "trickery" because he couldn't keep up with it. That's not the sign of someone who is Daredevil's equal in combat.

He's skilled, but Marvel treats their MA's differently.

The difference? When Thor tries to hand to hand with Creel in spite of being superior in multiple physical aspects he still has to work for the win.
When Creel's brought down to Wolverine's level and attempts to fight him he gets blitzed and armbared in 2 panels.


There's definitely a difference in skill as portrayed by Marvel, and it's asinine to pretend that there isn't.

Batman obviously

why has this turned into a debate about whether or not thor could beat daredevil? im not sure if this makes me hate this place or love it.

Good post jinzin

At this point you're lucky it's not about hot-dogs vs. youtube.



Actually it just has to do with the notion that age is an accurate indicator of skill in combat.
A notion which makes sense, but comics ignore, contradict, and piss all over instead.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Good post jinzin thank you.

Originally posted by jinzin
At this point you're lucky it's not about hot-dogs vs. youtube.
hahaha

did logan ever go against shatterstar with a blade? or kurt? (asked before but couldn't find the post )

i dont recall Logan ever fightin NC with a blade.

Logan hasnt really fought Shatterstar with a blade but he has outright pawned him with his claws

Yo.

Originally posted by Juk3n
What does age matter? Thor is Very Old, and has been fighting for thousands of years..yet he's not as sklled as Elektra, or Daredevil.

so, just to be clear: yur of the opinion that Thor would lose to either of them in a straight sword duel?




Tazer

^ Comics Rule #1431: Japanese sword-fighting > all other forms of sword-fighting for some reason.

Comics Rule #1420: Any asian martial art > all other forms of fighting, no matter the experience, no matter what.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



so, just to be clear: yur of the opinion that Thor would lose to either of them in a straight sword duel?




Tazer that's silly hypo...thor's so much stronger.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Comics Rule #1431: Japanese sword-fighting > all other forms of sword-fighting for some reason.
you silly noob. it's because japanese sword design is cooler. that's why everybody in comcis from phobos to deadpool use katanas no matter what their backstories may be or whether or they have any connection whatsoever to medieval japanese culture

a sword like this would have rocked for phobos

http://getasword.com/226-275-thickbox/conan-father-sword-letter-opener-bronze.jpg

Originally posted by 753
you silly noob. it's because japanese sword design is cooler. that's why everybody in comcis from phobos to deadpool use katanas no matter what their backstories may be or whether or they have any connection whatsoever to medieval japanese culture

duh, katanas can cut through solid steel

why would I use some dumb bastard sword? no way it could cause more damage than a katana. Katana will slice right through any armor, not a freaking 2 handed bastard sword though. what a primitive technology

To be fair samurai sword are actually the best all around sword.

Not it's not.

Originally posted by Mindset
Not it's not.
I pretty sure it is. It the most effective offensively and one of the best defensively. Though the best defensively is another blade the samurai keep on them which for the life of me I am forgetting at this moment.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I pretty sure it is. It the most effective offensively and one of the best defensively. Though the best defensively is another blade the samurai keep on them which for the life of me I am forgetting at this moment. Well, you're wrong.

It's not.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well, you're wrong.

It's not.
what is then? if your so smart?

Yo.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I pretty sure it is. It the most effective offensively and one of the best defensively. Though the best defensively is another blade the samurai keep on them which for the life of me I am forgetting at this moment.

iirc, its called the wakizhi.........




Tazer

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
what is then? if your so smart? There is no best all around sword.

And knowing that is why I'm smart.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I pretty sure it is. It the most effective offensively and one of the best defensively. Though the best defensively is another blade the samurai keep on them which for the life of me I am forgetting at this moment.

effective for the type of warfare that a samurai most commonly engaged in? yes

is it more effective or better designed for the type of combat European armies saw than are European swords? no, of course not

Samurai swords do represent a high point in the art or ritual of swordmaking. They would be far less effective against a knight in combat than would traditional Western weapons. The main reason is, afaik at least, is stuff like chainmail and plate armor that the light Katana blade would neither pierce through effectively or crush. The reason heavy swords, axes, maces etc were effective in European combat was because it would crush and destroy the armor along with the knight within it

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



iirc, its called the wakizhi.........




Tazer
correct there also the shoto and the tanto

I like rapiers.

Yo.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
correct there also the shoto and the tanto

dont think Ive ever seen the shoto, but wouldnt the tanto be TOO small to do much defense against a regular-sized blade?




Tazer

Tanto is a knife, so pretty much.

Originally posted by inimalist


Samurai swords do represent a high point in the art or ritual of swordmaking. They would be far less effective against a knight in combat than would traditional Western weapons.
What do you mean by traditional? If were talking swords this is 100% wrong. In fact history does not agree with you the the least.


Originally posted by inimalist
The main reason is, afaik at least, is stuff like chainmail and plate armor that the light Katana blade would neither pierce through effectively or crush.
This is wrong. In fact they can pierce chain mail, and much more effectively then western swords.

Originally posted by inimalist
The reason heavy swords, axes, maces etc were effective in European combat was because it would crush and destroy the armor along with the knight within it
Were talking swords not axes maces ect.



Heavy swords were not more effective then katana at all. In fact they were made of inferior metal which is why they were so havey because then made out of iron rather then steel. They lacked the sharpness to damage the armor effectively. In fact armor was much more superior then the swords of the erra. This is not true of samurai swords which were made of steel and designed with razor sharp edges.



(take it or leave it, but I am a middle ages history major. I might be wrong about samurai and so forth, but Knights and they weapondry and armory is something I have lots of knowledge on and you are wrong.)

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
This is wrong. In fact they can pierce chain mail, and much more effectively then western swords.


rly? I had heard the exact opposite. I don't study history though

EDIT: Plate too? I mean, its not like making smaller and sharper swords wasn't available to Westerners, why wouldn't they have done it if it was more effective than bludgeoning one's way through the armor?

Rapier is that french for:

http://thesynopsis.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/quagmire-3865.jpg

so any cool sword weapons that you guys would prefer to see in comics?

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



dont think Ive ever seen the shoto, but wouldnt the tanto be TOO small to do much defense against a regular-sized blade?




Tazer
Short blades tend to be very effective defensively but yes it be rather hard to use one of them as a main weapon. Normal back up weapons use mainly if weapon was lost or in extreme up close combat. Though if master correctly it was effective very effective. Kung Fu develop a weapon of similar length but made for offensive purposes that was extremely effective. Weapons lengths can be decieving.
Originally posted by Mindset
Tanto is a knife, so pretty much.
yes it resemble a long knife and could be classified as such.

a bunch of samurais wouldn't do shit to a platoon of roman soldiers carrying shields in the tortoise formation and stabbiong them with their gladi. so there, paper beats rock.

Originally posted by inimalist
rly? I had heard the exact opposite. I don't study history though

EDIT: Plate too? I mean, its not like making smaller and sharper swords wasn't available to Westerners, why wouldn't they have done it if it was more effective than bludgeoning one's way through the armor? I think they showed it on Deadliest Warrior that a katana couldn't pierce chainmail.