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H2H a la Zeus/Hulk fight. No BFR.

what's up with these threads?

Originally posted by keiththegreat
H2H a la Zeus/Hulk fight. No BFR. Juggernaut's Durability its incalculable superior than Hulk's amazing durability, i

f and only IF amped Zeus's punches don't mess with Juggernaut's enchantments(Thor's magical lightnings did tickled him.. ) I don't see how Zeus could hurt him...

I think stalemate.

No force field? Zeus beats him into the ground unless it's the one from Thor.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No force field? Zeus beats him into the ground unless it's the one from Thor. Where do you see no forcefields?

Nowhere.

Which is why my post was directed at a scenario with no force field. It's a forgotten power by most writers unfortunately. 7 out of 10 times he wouldn't use it anymore.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No force field? Zeus beats him into the ground unless it's the one from Thor.

No he doesn't. Even if Zeus is able to hurt him, Cain's healing factor will easily keep him alive and going as seen in a more recent issue. Unlike Hulk's healing factor, Juggernaut's is not wearing out.

Also, have you played MvC3?

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
No he doesn't. Even if Zeus is able to hurt him, Cain's healing factor will easily keep him alive and going as seen in a more recent issue. Unlike Hulk's healing factor, Juggernaut's is not wearing out.

Also, have you played MvC3?

Zeus will no doubt be able to hurt him if the other avatars had the power. But you have a point about the healing factor. Still, it comes down to the portrayal. If it's on the level of the Juggernaut one shot, it'll keep him in the fight noticeably longer than the Hulk without a doubt -perhaps indefinitely- but he'll still get his ass knocked around the place. If it's a more reasonable portrayal or not taken consideration? Zeus puts him down. At least in imo.

Haven't gotten my copy yet. Why? How have you enjoyed it so far? Is Thor kicking ass?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Zeus will no doubt be able to hurt him if the other avatars had the power. But you have a point about the healing factor. Still, it comes down to the portrayal. If it's on the level of the Juggernaut one shot, it'll keep him in the fight a fair bit longer than the Hulk without a doubt -perhaps indefinitely- but he'll still get his ass knocked around the place. If it's a more reasonable portrayal or not taken consideration? Zeus puts him down. At least in imo.

Haven't gotten my copy yet. Why? How have you enjoyed it so far? Is Thor kicking ass?

I'd have to disagree on him just getting knocked around like a rag doll. I think at the very least he'll stalemate him unless there is some form of BFR, he removes his actual invulnerability or finds a way to cut off his power source.

Thor is kind of slow, but I've found that if you get your opponent in the air, he can deal some damage. I'd like to try and make him one of my mains. That being said, I am not good at fighting games.

8th day jugs wins 8/10 and I don't even know how Zeus is winning the 2 that I gave him.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I'd have to disagree on him just getting knocked around like a rag doll. I think at the very least he'll stalemate him unless there is some form of BFR, he removes his actual invulnerability or finds a way to cut off his power source.

Thor is kind of slow, but I've found that if you get your opponent in the air, he can deal some damage. I'd like to try and make him one of my mains. That being said, I am not good at fighting games.

Zeus is a fair bit stronger. There would still be a gap -in Zeus' favor- even if we used the one that appeared in Thor (Still don't know why Jurgens believed he was amped).

If he has his force field on, Zeus won't be able to attack him directly (Not unless you believe he has the power to break it which I don't) and so Cain would be able to trade blows in a pseudo fashion. But going mano-a-mano? Not the smartest idea.

I can't wait to get my hands on it. I've never played with Thor yet (It's his first time in a fighting game) but if the Universe has any kind of fairness to it, I'll be awesome with him.

Eh, you'll get better. Play a few rounds and you'll get the hang of it. Get some friends over who are shit, and just dominate. It will greatly increase the appeal of the game.

Thor is slow(LOLZERZ) and has range issues.

Hits like a truck though and can take an ass whooping before dropping.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Zeus is a fair bit stronger. There would still be a gap -in Zeus' favor- even if we used the one that appeared in Thor (Still don't know why Jurgens believed he was amped).

If he has his force field on, Zeus won't be able to attack him directly (Not unless you believe he has the power to break it which I don't) and so Cain would be able to trade blows in a pseudo fashion. But going mano-a-mano? Not the smartest idea.

I can't wait to get my hands on it. I've never played with Thor yet (It's his first time in a fighting game) but if the Universe has any kind of fairness to it, I'll be awesome with him.

Eh, you'll get better. Play a few rounds and you'll get the hang of it. Get some friends over who are shit, and just dominate. It will greatly increase the appeal of the game.

I don't know, Juggernaut was created (from Stan Lee's standpoint) so that every character that held back could unleash on him. I think he would fair well in a fist fight, even against Zeus.

My type of games are FPS's. I've never been good at fighting games, though I still buy them and play them. I usually get destroyed online. I do better online in Mortal Kombat compared to Capcom games.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I don't know, Juggernaut was created (from Stan Lee's standpoint) so that every character that held back could unleash on him. I think he would fair well in a fist fight, even against Zeus.

My type of games are FPS's. I've never been good at fighting games, though I still buy them and play them. I usually get destroyed online. I do better online in Mortal Kombat compared to Capcom games.

If only Stan Lee's original intentions mattered. Thor was created to be stronger than the strongest hero (Hulk=) and more powerful than any of them.

Like I said, if he goes blow for blow, he'd get manhandled just like Hulk. It's not a knock against Cain. Zeus' simply above heralds. Depending on his depiction when it comes to healing, he can stay in it unlike the Hulk. Perhaps indefinitely.

You'll get the hang of it.

Originally posted by Spire
Thor is slow(LOLZERZ) and has range issues.

Hits like a truck though and can take an ass whooping before dropping.

ahah

Range issues? Really? Huh.

Figured as much.

Edit: gfwoLXEk9QI

Lol.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If only Stan Lee's original intentions mattered. Thor was created to be stronger than the strongest hero (Hulk=) and more powerful than any of them.

Like I said, if he goes blow for blow, he'd get manhandled just like Hulk. It's not a knock against Cain. Zeus' simply above heralds. Depending on his depiction when it comes to healing, he can stay in it unlike the Hulk. Perhaps indefinitely.

You'll get the hang of it.

As far as power wise, I think Thor is above Hulk. Maybe Hulk can pass him in lifting strength though, that will be left up to a writer until then.

To each his own I guess. I think 8th Day Juggernaut will have a much better fight than Hulk did.

I may get the hang of it to a degree, but I have someone on my friends list that I know I'll never be able to surpass.

I'm buying mvc 3 in 2 more hours. If anyone wants to challenge me, send me a friends request at UNBEATABLE26.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
As far as power wise, I think Thor is above Hulk. Maybe Hulk can pass him in lifting strength though, that will be left up to a writer until then.

To each his own I guess. I think 8th Day Juggernaut will have a much better fight than Hulk did.

I may get the hang of it to a degree, but I have someone on my friends list that I know I'll never be able to surpass.

Thor > Hulk any day. Of course, to modern writers, strength counts for 95% of the fight. If they've decided a character is stronger, he wins the fight most of the time.

In terms of tanking hits? Of course. In terms of offensive capabilities? I disagree. Even in the Thor tie in levels, he wouldn't fair much better than the Hulk.

Sweep the leg.

Originally posted by carver9
8th day jugs wins 8/10 and I don't even know how Zeus is winning the 2 that I gave him. Carv I understand why you don't give zues the win over juggs(durability). But why juggs over zues? What can juggs to do him?

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Cain's healing factor will easily keep him alive and going as seen in a more recent issue. Unlike Hulk's healing factor, Juggernaut's is not wearing out.



ha? are they finally show juggernaut kick some as? what issue? what comics?

Originally posted by big_swip
ha? are they finally show juggernaut kick some as? what issue? what comics?

Sorry, I was referencing the one shot as I assumed Rage had the 2nd Thor fight in mind, hence why I said "more recent issue". Didn't mean to mislead you there.

I just did an air combo in MvC3 with Hulk and it swithed to Thor and Hulk yelled, "GO GOLDIELOCKS!"

My store f*cked up so I'm getting my game tomorrow. Getting store credit as compensation so it's acceptable I guess.

Ha, it is cool that certain characters refer to each other with familiarity; Iron Man calls Cap "Steve", Cap calls Iron Man "Tony", most of the X-Men refer to each other by first name, etc. It's a minor detail, but pretty neat they added that in the game.

without the forcefield zeus takes it imo. with forcefield--depends whether you believe zeus>cyttorak. i'd say he was, so imo the field wouldn't matter as zeus could overcome it, much the same way the odinpower--manifested through thor's hammer--was able to temporarily negate it.

I'm going to get flack from the juggy lovers, but I don't care. Zeus wins this eventually.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I can't wait to get my hands on it. I've never played with Thor yet (It's his first time in a fighting game) but if the Universe has any kind of fairness to it, I'll be awesome with him.

Eh, you'll get better. Play a few rounds and you'll get the hang of it. Get some friends over who are shit, and just dominate. It will greatly increase the appeal of the game.

Nah, he's been in Mugen. It's a far better version that Capcom's that's for sure. And I think Capcom copied some of Mugen Thor's moves and hypers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueIiLlIIvgo

I'm going with Zeus here. I doubt Cyttorak is that far above Zeus and this is only a fraction of his power going up against Zeus.

Zeus.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Zeus. do you care to state how is Zeus going to get past 8th Day Juggernaut Force Field on a H2H combat?

Zeus aint facing a poor durability guy like hulk he is facing a guy with this defencive atributes

Inpenetrable ForceField
High Durable Armor(Adamantium have failed to even scratch it)
impervious skin(more durable than the armor itself goin by the stranger showing)

Healing factor(magical in nature, won wear down like Hulks)
being an Avatar(can't be kill for good as long as he is linked to the source)

...

Did 8th Day Juggy actually use a force-field?

No.

Juggernaut hasn't used it in a while as far as I can tell.

^ Didn't think so. In fact, I don't think he's actually used a FF since back in Thor #429 (circa '91.)

That said, if the particular version of Juggernaut specified in this thread never used a FF on panel, why is him doing so in this battle even getting brought up as some sort of viable tactic..?

Zeus stomps.

8 days Juggernaut hit his strenght limit with the Exemplar Stonecutter,Zeus Work Hard ans Stomp his overrated Ass..........

Originally posted by Galan007
That said, if the particular version of Juggernaut specified in this thread never used a FF on panel, . He was amped, not downgraded...

and Juggernaut does not need his FF to amp his durability, its an option if he does not WANT to be touched...

do you care to elaborate on how is Zeus going to tax Juggernaut Healing factor?...

How is Zeus going to keep Juggernaut from regenerating from an skelleton(if Zeus its even capable of doing that with bare fists), How is Zeus going to keep Juggernaut down if he can't stop the source of Juggernaut's abilities?

this is a stale mate, Zeus Can't kill juggernaut without disconecting him from his source in a H2H battle....

Originally posted by FanBoy101
He was amped, not downgraded... Moot point. 8th Day Juggernaut never used a force-field on panel -- in fact, Juggy as a character hasn't used a force-field in about 20 years. Thus it's not an ability he would just pull out of his ass here.
srsly

Anyhow, IF I were to even give 8th Day Juggernaut the nod vs. current Hulk (big if considering his final battle with Stonecutter), there's no way I could see him owning Hulk as decisively/easily as Zeus did.

Zeus wins. Imo.

Originally posted by Galan007


Zeus wins. Imo. zeus can't even phase juggy

^ Stonecutter did. Surely Zeus could do the same, and more.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Stonecutter did. Surely Zeus could do the same, and more. you're forgetting that classic juggs laughed off thor's godblast...which hurt celestials and galactus. but juggs was merely tickled.

Zeus.

Originally posted by Starscream M
you're forgetting that classic juggs laughed off thor's godblast...which hurt celestials and galactus. but juggs was merely tickled. Yep. His FF was badass.

Regardless, Stonecutter was on par with 8th Day Juggernaut. Just saying.

Originally posted by Starscream M
you're forgetting that classic juggs laughed off thor's godblast...which hurt celestials and galactus. but juggs was merely tickled.

1. Juggernaut had his force field on.
2. That was clearly not on the same level as the God Blast against the Celestials, or even Galactus.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yep. His FF was badass.

Regardless, Stonecutter was on par with 8th Day Juggernaut. Just saying.

Didn't the chick with the weapon mastery also hurt Cain using pressure points and other shit?

I think Bedlam and Stonecutter were the only Exemplars that were able to phase 8th Day Juggy. Bedlem via TP, and Stonecutter via strength.

Pretty sure the pressure points chick had him in pain. Do you have the issue on hand?

Originally posted by Galan007
Yep. His FF was badass.

Regardless, Stonecutter was on par with 8th Day Juggernaut. Just saying. ok, accepting that to be true...what makes you think zeus is on par or greater than stonecutter?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Pretty sure the pressure points chick had him in pain. Do you have the issue on hand? Yeah, just found the instance you're talking about. Conquest, the warrior Exemplar, actually hurt Juggy via pressure point attacks. Granted they didn't cause any lasting damage, but still...

Originally posted by Starscream M
what makes you think zeus is on par or greater than stonecutter? His casual tooling of Hulk.

also I think his FF should be on in this fight

he doesn't use it much in comics because he's haxx with it (unbeatable)

just like Flash is haxx with full speedforce...which he rarely displays, yet in kmc fights, ppl always wank flash's full abilities

it would be a double standard not to do so for juggy

Originally posted by Galan007


His casual tooling of Hulk. how does that place zeus over stonecutter? unless you don't think stonecutter would also tool hulk?

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, just found the instance you're talking about. Conquest, the warrior Exemplar, actually hurt Juggy via pressure point attacks. Granted they didn't cause any lasting damage, but still...

Thanks. Like I said, I don't think 8th day Juggernaut was above regular Juggernaut. Even in the Thor tie in where he was apparently amped a few times, Thor held his own for too long.

Originally posted by Starscream M
ok, accepting that to be true...what makes you think zeus is on par or greater than stonecutter?

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/Thorskill2.jpg

thx for the scan rage

Originally posted by Galan007
His casual tooling of Hulk. Zeus Taxed Hulk's Healing factor, Zeus wont be doing that to Juggernaut

Bada has said previously that FF was always on and its an ability of Juggernaut to use it here I will personaly P.M him so he can makes thing clear for you guys...

Originally posted by Starscream M
thx for the scan rage

For the record, Hercules and Thor lost against the Exemplars in the end.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/Thorskill2.jpg

Man, I miss Busiek/Perez Avengers.

Originally posted by FanBoy101

Bada has said previously that FF was always on and its an ability of Juggernaut to use it here I will personaly P.M him so he can makes thing clear for you guys... it would make sense that FF is on by default...since ppl accept Flash using IMPs and full speed in his fights

^Whoever does that doesn't read Flash.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/Thorskill2.jpg

Shit, my bad. Stonecutter is the dude in the red exoskeleton and not the dude in black.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
^Whoever does that doesn't read Flash. Bada will be the guy with the last word on the FF issue...

Zeus was hurting Hulk real bad, Zeus needs to get past Juggernaut's FF and Tax his magical Healing factor to be able to keep him down as he did Hulk...that is something I just dont' see him doing in a Brawl...

Originally posted by FanBoy101
Zeus Taxed Hulk's Healing factor, Zeus wont be doing that to Juggernaut

Bada has said previously that FF was always on and its an ability of Juggernaut to use it here I will personaly P.M him so he can makes thing clear for you guys... Allowing Juggy to use an ability that he simply DOES NOT use any more, and hasn't used in roughly 20 years dosn't make any sense to me. And IF Bada allows it, then I'm very curious to know why.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/Thorskill2.jpg Heh. I literally JUST read that issue.

Originally posted by Galan007
Allowing Juggy to use an ability that he simply DOES NOT use any more, and hasn't used in roughly 20 years dosn't make any sense to me. And IF Bada allows it, then I'm very curious to know why. Let Bada be the Judge...

Originally posted by Galan007
Allowing Juggy to use an ability that he simply DOES NOT use any more, and hasn't used in roughly 20 years dosn't make any sense to me. . I get your reasoning...but we have to explore why he doesn't use it.

I think he doesn't use it because its too haxx of a power for him, he's basically unbeatable when he uses it unless against someone who can negate it magically.

Originally posted by Galan007
Allowing Juggy to use an ability that he simply DOES NOT use any more, and hasn't used in roughly 20 years dosn't make any sense to me. And IF Bada allows it, then I'm very curious to know why.

Agreed. I'd wager there's more instances where he doesn't use the force field than there are where he does.

Originally posted by Galan007
Heh. I literally JUST read that issue.

I just did too. Thor came out looking really good in that issue.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I get your reasoning...but we have to explore why he doesn't use it.

I think he doesn't use it because its too haxx of a power for him, he's basically unbeatable when he uses it unless against someone who can negate it magically. Agreed. However, when ability hasn't been used for around 20 years, is it not logical to assume that it simply isn't part of Juggy's 'standard' powerset any longer? I mean, when do we draw the line? 30 years? 40 years?

Originally posted by Galan007
Agreed. But when ability hasn't been used for around 20 years, is it not logical to assume that it simply isn't part of said character's 'standard' powerset any longer? Juggy had exotic powers too, but they were taken away and its on paper, so onless you can prove that Juggernaut has lost this ability then he stills have it...

why don't we all wait for Bada to rule on this matter...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I just did too. Thor came out looking really good in that issue. That's what heroes do...

Originally posted by FanBoy101
Juggy had exotic powers too, but they were taken away and its on paper, so onless you can prove that Juggernaut has lost this ability then he stills have it... Its been 20 years, dude. That's the best proof I can provide.

...And Juggy's other exotic abilities (spell casting, and such) were never formally taken away that I know of -- they just haven't been referenced since. Kind of like his FF.

Originally posted by Galan007
Juggy's other exotic abilities (spell casting, and such) were never formally taken away that I know of -- they just haven't been referenced since. they were takan away by Oblivion, since he could not keep Juggernaut's Rant for ever he made a deal with him, He had to lose those powers so he could come back to earth...

can you imagine? how formidable Juggernout could be with all of his powers used at the same time?

the rules state that flash uses his full powerset from the get-go unless specified otherwise. dont make me quote the rules

Originally posted by FanBoy101
they were takan away by Oblivion, since he could not keep Juggernaut's Rant for ever he made a deal with him, He had to lose those powers so he could come back to earth... Scans or issue #?

Originally posted by FanBoy101
they were takan away by Oblivion, since he could not keep Juggernaut's Rant for ever he made a deal with him, He had to lose those powers so he could come back to earth...



huh? where'd this happen?

mhmm It's been a while. I do remember Beast depowering Juggernaut by removing his helmet or something similarly silly. However, a loss of powers is not something I remember but like I said, it's been a while.

Originally posted by Galan007
Scans or issue #? http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Unique/Misc/th_DrStrange-18213.jpg

will provide issue number later...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thanks. Like I said, I don't think 8th day Juggernaut was above regular Juggernaut. Even in the Thor tie in where he was apparently amped a few times, Thor held his own for too long.



http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/Thorskill2.jpg

Ok rage, I think I need to help you out on a couple of things... if you don't think 8tth day jugs by the end of the book would outright kill Thor then you are crazy... I know you love thor just like I love the character as well but Jugs was busting through dimensions and time streams with ease.

On your scan... you do know that Juggernaut soloed the exemplers and won right? He did work that thor and hercules couldn't accomplish so your scan was pointless.

Originally posted by FanBoy101
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Unique/Misc/th_DrStrange-18213.jpg

will provide issue number later...

That's from Doctor Strange #182. IIRC, Eternity banished Nightmare and Juggernaut to Oblivion. I don't recall any power loss.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok rage, I think I need to help you out on a couple of things... if you don't think 8tth day jugs by the end of the book would outright kill Thor then you are crazy... I know you love thor just like I love the character as well but Jugs was busting through dimensions and time streams with ease.

On your scan... you do know that Juggernaut soloed the exemplers and won right? He did work that thor and hercules couldn't accomplish so your scan was pointless.

Oh Carver, I like you, but just stop. You're talking about the Juggernaut when the dark side of the Trion entity possessed him which is a completely different event from the 8th Day thing. And the incarnation is overrated. Breaking through dimensional is something Thor could do.

I'm pretty sure that did not happen. IIRC, he defeated like two or three by taking them on in a gauntlet fashion.

Galan?

8th Day Juggy did NOT bust through dimensions. That was Trion Juggy.

Originally posted by FanBoy101
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Unique/Misc/th_DrStrange-18213.jpg

will provide issue number later...

uh... what's that got to do with oblivion like you said?

Originally posted by carver9
On your scan... you do know that Juggernaut soloed the exemplers and won right? He did work that thor and hercules couldn't accomplish so your scan was pointless.
yes...

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
...last but not least.

Juggernaut takes out the majority of the Exemplars solo:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_jug_8th_day_p19.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_jug_8th_day_p25.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_jug_8th_day_p29.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_jug_8th_day_p30.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_jug_8th_day_p31.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_jug_8th_day_p32.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_jug_8th_day_p34.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_jug_8th_day_p35.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_jug_8th_day_p36.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
8th Day Juggy did NOT bust through dimensions. That was Trion Juggy.

I thought trion was the 80 ft tall version...

That was jugs that was basically heading to become trion.

Originally posted by carver9
I thought trion was the 80 ft tall version...

That was jugs that was basically heading to become trion.

he was huge. AND he punched through dimensions.

Originally posted by FanBoy101
yes...

Like I said, he took out Decay, Conquest, and Carnivore in a gauntlet like fashion after cheap shotting Bedlam and Stone Cutter.

Thor could do the same without a doubt.

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
the rules state that flash uses his full powerset from the get-go unless specified otherwise. dont make me quote the rules



so its debateable...

Originally posted by FanBoy101
yes... Hm, the scans of Stonecutter stalemating Juggy aren't there. Weird.

Originally posted by carver9
I thought trion was the 80 ft tall version... You're probably referring to scans you've seen posted here from X-Men v2 #88, which is the immediate prelude issue to Uncanny X-Men #369 -- both of which deal exculsively with Trion Juggy. I can post scans if necessary.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Oh Carver, I like you, but just stop. You're talking about the Juggernaut when the dark side of the Trion entity possessed him which is a completely different event from the 8th Day thing. And the incarnation is overrated. Breaking through dimensional is something Thor could do.

I'm pretty sure that did not happen. IIRC, he defeated like two or three by taking them on in a gauntlet fashion.

Galan?

Rage... I think you are cool as well but we just see things kind of different.

Trion had him during the entire 8th day arc... Juggernaut even admits this.

eer facepalm

Chronologically speaking, the issues concerning Trion Juggernaut were released before the 8th Day saga.

Originally posted by Galan007
Hm, the scans of Stonecutter stalemating Juggy aren't there. Weird.

You're probably referring to scans you've seen posted here from X-Men v2 #88, which is the immediate prelude issue to Uncanny X-Men #369 -- both of which deal exculsively with Trion Juggy. I can post scans if necessary.

Naah, Trion had control that entire arc, juggernaut even admits the change during his beating on Thor.

What the hell are you talking about? You got the two events merged in your mind.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
eer facepalm

Lol... I will post scans later. Don't go crazy on me rage, you know how you get those tempers sometimes (I am about to own you).

Originally posted by carver9
Naah, Trion had control that entire arc, juggernaut even admits the change during his beating on Thor. No. He didn't.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What the hell are you talking about? You got the two events merged in your mind.

But didn't it happen around the same time (if memory serves correct)?

Around the same time, yes. However, Juggernaut 'cured' himself of the Trion madness during UXM #369 -- hence why he wasn't a few hundred feet tall when the 8th Day saga started months later.

They are 2 completely different versions of the same character.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I will post scans later. Don't go crazy on me rage, you know how you get those tempers sometimes (I am about to own you).

Oh, Carver, I told you to stop, why didn't you listen?

The entire fight:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut4.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut6.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut7.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut8.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut9.jpg

Jurgens must have a low opinion of Juggernaut or a high one of Thor in comparison to Cain strength wise. For a large increase in power, I wouldn't have said Juggernaut was much stronger than Thor. His durability looked better but strength wise? Meh.

Originally posted by Galan007
Around the same time, yes. However, Juggernaut 'cured' himself of the Trion madness during UXM #369 -- hence why he wasn't a few hundred feet tall when the 8th Day saga started months later.

They are 2 completely different versions of the same character.

Ok... but don't you think his showing against Thor and the exemplers is proof enough that he could take Zeus in a fight. None of Thor hits even registered to the Juggernaut and Thor was even surprised at his hardest hits nor phasing him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Oh, Carver, I told you to stop, why didn't you listen?

The entire fight:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut4.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut6.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut7.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut8.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsJuggernaut9.jpg

Jurgens must have a low opinion of Juggernaut or a high one of Thor in comparison to Cain strength wise. For a large increase in power, I wouldn't have said Juggernaut was much stronger than Thor. His durability looked better but strength wise? Meh.

Whoever said that jugs had a large increase in strength?

Originally posted by carver9
Ok... but don't you think his showing against Thor and the exemplers is proof enough that he could take Zeus in a fight. None of Thor hits even registered to the Juggernaut and Thor was even surprised at his hardest hits nor phasing him.

I don't. He didn't do anything that Thor or the Hulk wouldn't be capable of against the Exemplars. Like I've said in the past, his fight against Thor was an anomaly. Jurgens wrote him as significantly amped for some reason. It didn't mash with anything else as far as I can tell.

Oh, and tanking Thor's hits in no way proves he would be capable of doing so against Zeus. And I think he felt Thor's hits in the end there.

Originally posted by carver9
Whoever said that jugs had a large increase in strength?

I'd have assumed he was amped across the entire board. Thor outright said his might was increased a hundred fold. If that's how an amped Juggernaut fares against Thor, you'd better hope the classic Juggernaut never faces off against Thor under Jurgens.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't. He didn't do anything that Thor or the Hulk wouldn't be capable of against the Exemplars. Like I've said in the past, his fight against Thor was an anomaly. Jurgens wrote him as significantly amped for some reason. It didn't mash with anything else as far as I can tell.



I'd have assumed he was amped across the entire board. Thor outright said his might was increased a hundred fold. If that's how an amped Juggernaut fares against Thor, you'd better hope the classic Juggernaut never faces off against Thor under Jurgens.



Thor got treated like a step child in that fight.

We don't know how much he was amped though. His classic version treated Thor the same way.

Originally posted by carver9


Thor got treated like a step child in that fight.

We don't know how much he was amped though. His classic version treated Thor the same way.

No he didn't. The closest that came to happening was when he swung Thor and punched him in the face which didn't do anything. And that was only because Thor was distracted. Prior to that, he was stalemating Cain in a contest of strength.

Noticeably apparently, which I find weird. Please don't start.

Originally posted by FanBoy101
so its debateable...

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No he didn't. The closest that came to happening was when he swung Thor and punched him in the face which didn't do anything. And that was only because Thor was distracted. Prior to that, he was stalemating Cain in a contest of strength.

Noticeably apparently, which I find weird. Please don't start.

Lol... I'm not trying to start with you rage.

As for your comments... well, its Thor... he is a natural beast. No matter how much stronger someone is over Thor, he is going to hold his own. Look at his mangog fights.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Carv I understand why you don't give zues the win over juggs(durability). But why juggs over zues? What can juggs to do him? Carver...can you just give me the condensed version. Don't feel like reading through 5 pages.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't. He didn't do anything that Thor or the Hulk wouldn't be capable of against the Exemplars. Like I've said in the past, his fight against Thor was an anomaly. Jurgens wrote him as significantly amped for some reason. It didn't mash with anything else as far as I can tell.

Oh, and tanking Thor's hits in no way proves he would be capable of doing so against Zeus. And I think he felt Thor's hits in the end there. Agreed.

Furthermore, it's also probable that Thor was weaker than normal when 8th Day Juggy confronted him -- as he had just finished a battle with Enrakt moments before (in which he didn't fair well.)

Originally posted by Galan007
Agreed.

Furthermore, it's also probable that Thor was weaker than normal when 8th Day Juggy confronted him -- as he had just finished a battle with Enrakt moments before (in which he didn't fair well.)

There was nothing indicating that Thor weakened during that encounter.

^ You're right, it was never stated -- that's why I used the word "probable." I mean, Thor had been getting smacked around by Enrakt seconds before (literally) he started battling Juggy. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Agreed.

Furthermore, it's also probable that Thor was weaker than normal when 8th Day Juggy confronted him -- as he had just finished a battle with Enrakt moments before (in which he didn't fair well.)

Yea, it's a point I've brought up before. It's definitely possible. If it's one thing Jurgens' Thor had however, it was great stamina/endurance.

Originally posted by Galan007
Juggy as a character hasn't used a force-field in about 20 years. Thus it's not an ability he would just pull out of his ass here.
srsly

Actually he used it in a Marvel Icons Cyclops issue. But that did come out in '01. That may have been close to when Juggernaut was depowered though.

^ Just read the issue. Nice catch.

But like you said, that mini was released in 2001, making it roughly 10 years old. So the question still stands: if an ability is only referenced once a decade, is that enough to maintain its position as part of a character's 'regular' powerset..? Not imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Just read the issue. Nice catch.

But like you said, that mini was released in 2001, making it roughly 10 years old. So the question still stands: if an ability is only referenced once a decade, is that enough to maintain its position as part of a character's 'regular' powerset..? Not imo.
Otherwise Superman would just sing people out of existence.

^ Or vibrate his body to save the omniverse.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor could do the same without a doubt.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor was was stalemating Cain in a contest of strength.


Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
...continued.

Juggernaut vs. Thor:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_Thor_vol2-519-017-12.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_Thor_vol2-519-017-13.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_Thor_vol2-519-017-14.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_Thor_vol2-519-017-15.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_Thor_vol2-519-017-20.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_Thor_vol2-519-017-21.jpg I Begg to differ Rage...


Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Finally, Juggernauts FF slows down and stops Thors hammer:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Unique/Force%20Field/th_THOR_1989__411_16.jpg

8th Day Juggernaut with his FF up and his Durability wont go down as easy as Hulk went down, He will die fighting is in his nature to die fighting(tunderbolts) and Zeus will not hurt him as he did to hulk...

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Just read the issue. Nice catch.

But like you said, that mini was released in 2001, making it roughly 10 years old. So the question still stands: if an ability is only referenced once a decade, is that enough to maintain its position as part of a character's 'regular' powerset..? Not imo.

That's just the thing though. He was depowered in 2002, so his shield would no longer be there/referenced to in the past decade.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
That's just the thing though. He was depowered in 2002, so his shield would no longer be there/referenced to in the past decade. ...It was still only referenced once in the last 20 years. none

Juggernaut wins this BUT I just thought about something, juggernaut isn't immune to magic and zeus magical charged punches could take its toll. Zeus is also a superb fighter from what I seen of his fight with hulk so it might be kind of hard for Jugs to tag zeus.

I'm giving it to Jugernaut 6/10 and I wonder how hulk and zeus rematch went during the Surfer comic... they seemed pretty even from the little that I seen.

Originally posted by Galan007
...It was still only referenced once in the last 20 years. none

That Thor issue with their second fight, where Thor deactivated his shield, came out in 1991.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
That Thor issue with their second fight, where Thor deactivated his shield, came out in 1991. Right, I've mentioned that a few times now. It was seen/used in '91, then not mentioned again until '01 -- which equates to a 10 year gap of inactivity. And since '01 it hasn't been referenced again, despite the (albeit brief) moment(s) in which Juggy regained his 'full power' a few years ago (New Excalibur/WWH, I think it was?) -- which equates to another 10 year gap of inactivity.

But even if it had only been a 10 year hiatus (half the time it has really been) I still think it's somewhat wrong to still assume it a part of Juggy's 'standard' powerset. I mean, I've seen the fella use quite potent magics, and fire omnidirectional orb-like energy attacks once or twice in his career -- yet I wouldn't bring up those abilities as evidence in his defense, because they aren't abilities he's been shown to use consistently since.

Just MO, though.

Originally posted by Galan007
Right, I've mentioned that a few times now. It was seen/used in '91, then not mentioned again until '01 -- which equates to a 10 year gap of inactivity. And since '01 it hasn't been referenced again, despite the (albeit brief) moment(s) in which Juggy regained his 'full power' a few years ago (New Excalibur/WWH, I think it was?) -- which equates to another 10 year gap of inactivity.

But even if it had only been a 10 year hiatus (half the time it has really been) I still think it's still somewhat wrong to assume it as a part of Juggy's 'standard' powerset. I mean, I've seen the fella use quite potent magics, and fire omnidirectional orb-like energy attacks once or twice in his career -- yet I wouldn't bring up those abilities as evidence in his defense, because they aren't abilities he's been shown to use consistently since.

Just MO, though.

The force-field is almost, if not, always referenced in all of the handbooks that cover him.

But you seem to be looking at this as if he has had the same amount of appearances as other popular characters, like Hulk or Thor. He's had barely a handful of appearances between '91 and '01 that he actually was in a fight that lasted more than a few panels.

^ So do you also think the exotic magics/energy attacks he's used in the past should be included as part of his regular powerset?

There's nothing (I've seen) officially retconning said abilities, after all.

If you're talking about the abilities he used against Nightmare, Marko said he traded those for a way out of the dimension he was in I believe. I'll have to look it up to be sure.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
If you're talking about the abilities he used against Nightmare, Marko said he traded those for a way out of the dimension he was in I believe. I'll have to look it up to be sure. You're right, per Hulk #172 he did give up his mystic powers in order to return to earth. However, there are still quite a few exotic abilities he utilized 1-2 times in his career that haven't been referenced since (ie. telepathy, energy attacks, ability to absorb/redirect energy attacks used against him, super speed, etc.) Since they've never been formally retconned, would you say they are still part of his regular powerset? Meaning: should they be used as evidence in any Juggernaut-related thread, iyo?

Furthermore, would you agree that the many times Juggernaut has had his helmet removed (ie. Beast, Nimrod, etc.) or had the gem ripped from his being (Onslaught) that his FF was not up? If you agree, then why wasn't it in place? His FF seemed like an instantaneous activation when he was actually shown using it...

I believe that telepathy thing was a temporary thing as well. I do think he has some degree of speed. I don't know if I would call it super speed or not. Outside of the energy attacks he used against Nightmare, I don't think he's had others. Maybe the globules of energy thing would be it. While he didn't get that or the ability to, push/redirect energy/objects from another source, I wouldn't call on that in a vs. fight to give him favor over the other, or even use those abilities in any vs. thread.

As far as his force field being up in those situations, I'd say it definitely wasn't. He does have to willingly 'turn' the force field on though. As far as comic book explanations go, I'd say he wasn't thinking about using it in those situations. But it is more on the part of progressing the story and/or the writer not knowing about it. I think if it were indeed on, those stories would definitely have ended differently.

From what I seen, Juggernaut has used quick silver like super speed at least 4 times his entire career and that should be enough to prove that he is fast. As for his force field, when has he ever needed to use it? He only used it during the times where there was a need and just like ptr said, jugs rarely if ever have any appearances so the limited ones he does have, if he have shown an ability att least 3 time, it should be acceptable.

To my knowlegde, he did not throw mystical attacks out but only twice his entire career and that was due to outside interference. That's different than him actually using his forcefield when he needs to.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I wouldn't call on that in a vs. fight to give him favor over the other, or even use those abilities in any vs. thread. All I wanted to know.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
As far as his force field being up in those situations, I'd say it definitely wasn't. He does have to willingly 'turn' the force field on though. As far as comic book explanations, I'd say he was thinking about using it in those situations. But it more on the part of progressing the story and/or the writer not knowing about it. I think if it were indeed on, those stories would definitely have ended differently. Nah, I'd say it's pretty darn instantaneous:
http://img257.imageshack.us/i/jff1.jpg/
Immediately as Thor's enchantment wore off, Juggy's FF returned.

Anyhow, I asked that question because as the above scan clearly shows, if you can physically touch Juggy, his FF is NOT on. Thus any time his helmet has been removed (which is usually how he's beaten), his FF wasn't being utilized.

I'm not arguing why the FF has only been referenced once in the last 20 years. I'm only stating my opinion that it doesn't seem right to allow him to use such a scarcely referenced ability in any thread that he's involved in (unless 'classic' Juggy is specified) -- it just isn't something he does, and his 'losses' tend to show it.

I was under the impression this was Classic Juggernaut, but up to 8th Day levels?

I was under the impression this was simply 8th Day Juggy, per the OP..?

Well 8th Day Juggs is basically Classic Juggernaut drawing on more power.

Yeah, but 8th Day Juggy didn't utilize a FF on panel -- and at that time, Juggy as a character hadn't used a FF in about 8 years.

That's been my argument this whole time.

I'd still say he has the option to use the force field. It could have been one of those cases where the writer didn't remember/know about it or, to a lesser extent, he just flat out didn't need it.

Originally posted by carver9
Juggernaut wins this BUT I just thought about something, juggernaut isn't immune to magic and zeus magical charged punches could take its toll.
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_Thor_vol2-519-017-12.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_Thor_vol2-519-017-13.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_Thor_vol2-519-017-14.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_Thor_vol2-519-017-15.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_Thor_vol2-519-017-20.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/th_Thor_vol2-519-017-21.jpg

now Picture him using his FF... I don't think Zeus will be braking Juggernauts ribs...

and IF Zeus manage to hurt him, I am sure his Healing Factor would keep him in the fight
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Durability/Juggernaut%20OneShot/th_Juggernaut1997_p35.jpg

...

Originally posted by Galan007
there are still quite a few exotic abilities he utilized 1-2 times in his career that haven't been referenced since , Since they've never been formally retconned, would you say they are still part of his regular powerset? Meaning: should they be used as evidence in any Juggernaut-related thread, iyo? Yes..

Here his is using SuperSpeed in his past
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Here the Juggernaut demonstrates he isn't just some slow, lumbering oaf. He can be fast if he wants to be:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Unique/Speed/th_SpeedFeatAA16.jpg


and here even Depowered he still has SuperSpeed(Not superMan type speed ofcourse)
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
http://s2d3.turboimagehost.com/t/5696881_Thunderbolts_152_017-18.jpg

here he is using Mater Manipulation...
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Unique/Transmutation/th_TASM628013.jpg

Does he use ALL of his tricks at once?..NO he aparently don't seem to need to, but that my friends don't make them go away as some of you guys wish...

the craziness about Juggernaut,the character is above a Skyfather level being,hum,yeah,right..........

Originally posted by Devron87
the craziness about Juggernaut,the character is above a Skyfather level being,hum,yeah,right.......... Nah...Just his durability... oh and this is a Hulk vs Zeus type of fight(H2H)

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I'd still say he has the option to use the force field. If he never used it on panel, why would it even be a possibility here?

He wouldn't be fighting 'in character' at that point.

Originally posted by FanBoy101
Yes..

Here his is using SuperSpeed in his past


and here even Depowered he still has SuperSpeed(Not superMan type speed ofcourse)


here he is using Mater Manipulation... As I said, there are various exotic abilities he has used once or twice in his career -- but doesn't use frequently enough to warrant them being part of his default powerset.

Originally posted by Galan007
IAs I said, there are various exotic abilities he has used once or twice in his career -- but doesn't used frequently enough to warrant them being part of his default powerset. I think you are mistaken...

do you think this feat by X-man is impressive ?
http://thumbnails29.imagebam.com/12053/1c6514120520560.jpg

what do you think about 8th Day Juggernaut doing the same?
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Unique/Dynamic%20Power/th_DynamicStrength4b.jpg

"Your power was never greater than mine! Especially not now that I know that I am a God!"


I say Juggernaut is able to have all of his abilities in a Forum fight...

Originally posted by FanBoy101
I think you are mistaken...

do you think this feat by X-man is impressive ?

what do you think about 8th Day Juggernaut doing the same?

I say Juggernaut is able to have all of his abilities in a Forum fight... What are you trying to say? That Juggy is a telepath of the same order as Charles and Nate? You think him using an ability once or twice in his career means that it's 'in character' for him to use it in every forum battle? Give me a break.


Here's the WHOLE page the cropped panel you posted above is from:

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7213/jug1.th.jpg

It looks like Juggy certainly had some help there.... Never rely on cropped scans.

Originally posted by Galan007
Give me a break. No...YOU give me a break... you can't deny juggernaut's FF in this battle...

Originally posted by Galan007
What are you trying to say? That Juggy is a telepath of the same order as Charles and Nate? You think him using an ability once or twice in his career means that it's 'in character' for him to use it in every forum battle? Give me a break.


Here's the WHOLE page the cropped panel you posted above is from:

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7213/jug1.th.jpg

It looks like Juggy certainly had some help there.... Never rely on cropped scans.

Wasnt that the storyarc with eight avatars? That little guy in the right was the avatar of like telepathy... And juggernaught was like strength...

Did someone just try to doctor a scan to get it to say what they wanted...

Originally posted by rotiart
Did someone just try to doctor a scan to get it to say what they wanted... Please don't derail this thread more than what gallan has....

Juggernaut will be using his ForceField in this battle...

Originally posted by rotiart
Wasnt that the storyarc with eight avatars? That little guy in the right was the avatar of like telepathy... And juggernaught was like strength...

Did someone just try to doctor a scan to get it to say what they wanted... Yeah, Bedlam was the TP avatar who was able to rival/own Charles.

And yes, someone definitely tried to doctor a scan in Juggy's favor.

Originally posted by FanBoy101
Juggernaut will be using his ForceField in this battle... Combatants fight in character on KMC. It wouldn't be in character for 8th Day Juggy to use a FF considering.... He never did.

Why would 8th day need his force field when he fought and tanked attacks from someone who has damaged gods?

Originally posted by Galan007
If he never used it on panel, why would it even be a possibility here?

He wouldn't be fighting 'in character' at that point.

Because, 8th Day Juggernaut is still Classic Juggernaut. The only difference is that his is under some kind of mind control the basically orders him to compete in the wager set up by the Octesense(sp?). Just because we didn't see him will his armor on during the 8th Day doesn't mean he does not have that ability. The shield is pretty much always mentioned as part of his powerset. So unlike those other obscure abilities, this one stays with him in some comics and almost all bios.

Originally posted by carver9
Why would 8th day need his force field when he fought and tanked attacks from someone who has damaged gods? ...Yet he was also hurt by Conquest. ermmhappy

Srsly though, I really don't think a FF is a logical tactic for Juggy... Especially the 8th Day incarnation. It just isn't something that was in character for him to use, and he had impressive durability w/o it.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Because, 8th Day Juggernaut is still Classic Juggernaut. The only difference is that his is under some kind of mind control the basically orders him to compete in the wager set up by the Octesense(sp?). Just because we didn't see him will his armor on during the 8th Day doesn't mean he does not have that ability. The shield is pretty much always mentioned as part of his powerset. So unlike those other obscure abilities, this one stays with him in some comics and almost all bios. Whether he had access to a FF during the 8th Day arc is moot. He simply did NOT use it.

You can't argue for something that was not in character for him to use.

Originally posted by Galan007
...Yet he was also hurt by Conquest. ermmhappy

Srsly though, I really don't think a FF is a logical tactic for Juggy... Especially the 8th Day incarnation. It just isn't something that was in character for him to use, and he had impressive durability w/o it.

I'm not arguing for the forcefield because like you said, he doesn't need it. As for conquest... isn't he one of the more powerful exempler? Didn't their battle wreck a large island and was basically causing caterstrophic damage to the entire surroundings they were fighting in?

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not arguing for the forcefield At least there's one logical fella in the bunch.

Originally posted by carver9
As for conquest... isn't he one of the more powerful exempler? Didn't their battle wreck a large island and was basically causing caterstrophic damage to the entire surroundings they were fighting in?

Don't think so. Conquest was the woman with enhanced fighting skills/speed/weaponry, and was able to hurt Juggy via pressure point attacks. Said attacks didn't cause any lasting damage, but the fact that she was able to hurt him in any way/shape/form is still very impressive, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Whether he had access to a FF during the 8th Day arc is moot. He simply did NOT use it.

You can't argue for something that was not in character for him to use.

I had a little paragraph typed up, but checked back and noticed you removed the last part of this post.

This Juggernaut may have not needed his force field for the 8th Day arc, but I would say it was there for him to exploit. There were basically two sides to Cain in that arc. The one that one mind controlled that wrecked Thor, then the normal Cain at the end of that arc where Xavier helped him break free of that mind control. All in all this was within his normal powerset, and his shield is part of that power set.

Originally posted by Galan007
At least there's one logical fella in the bunch.



Don't think so. Conquest was the woman with enhanced fighting skills/speed/weaponry, and was able to hurt Juggy via pressure point attacks. Said attacks didn't cause any lasting damage, but the fact that she was able to hurt him in any way/shape/form is still very impressive, imo.

Gotcha... I just can't picture Zeus using pressure point attacks on Jugs though.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I had a little paragraph typed up, but checked back and noticed you removed the last part of this post.

This Juggernaut may have not needed his force field for the 8th Day arc, but I would say it was there for him to exploit. There were basically two sides to Cain in that arc. The one that one mind controlled that wrecked Thor, then the normal Cain at the end of that arc where Xavier helped him break free of that mind control. All in all this was within his normal powerset, and his shield is part of that power set. Iyo. I could very easily say that it wasn't part of his powerset during that arc, and you would really have no way of making a good argument against me (as he never displayed that ability.)

Bottom line: even if 8th Day Juggy could have utilized a FF, he never did. Thus, saying it's something he could/would do here is digging pretty deep, imo.

Originally posted by carver9
Gotcha... I just can't picture Zeus using pressure point attacks on Jugs though.

Olympian wrestling techniques, ftw.

Originally posted by Galan007
Iyo. I could very easily say that it wasn't part of his powerset during that arc, and you would really have no way of making a good argument against me (as he never displayed that ability.)

Bottom line: even if 8th Day Juggy could have utilized a FF, he never did. Thus, saying it's something he could/would do here is digging pretty deep, imo.

To each his own I guess. If Juggernaut has his shield during this fight, I'm going to say he can take Zeus in H2H. With the shield there is a far less of a chance Zeus could BFR him and even if Zeus could get past it, there is no way for him to get around his natural durability or healing factor. Juggs strength should be able to hurt him, even if not, he'll just draw on more power from the gem till it does.

Without the shield, I'd say Juggs has a very good chance of at least stalemating him. Zeus maybe able to grab a hold of him and throw him around and/or BFR him easier. But with infinite energies flowing through him, Zeus will never be able to tax his healing factor, IMO. That alone should keep him in the fight.

Originally posted by Galan007
Olympian wrestling techniques, ftw. Troll...

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
To each his own I guess. If Juggernaut has his shield during this fight, I'm going to say he can take Zeus in H2H. With the shield there is a far less of a chance Zeus could BFR him and even if Zeus could get past it, there is no way for him to get around his natural durability or healing factor. Juggs strength should be able to hurt him, even if not, he'll just draw on more power from the gem till it does.

Without the shield, I'd say Juggs has a very good chance of at least stalemating him. Zeus maybe able to grab a hold of him and throw him around and/or BFR him easier. But with infinite energies flowing through him, Zeus will never be able to tax his healing factor, IMO. That alone should keep him in the fight. There's no BFR in this fight.

If Juggy were able to use his FF, there is a very good chance he'd win... UNLESS Zeus was permitted to use his magics to negate the FF like Thor did.

W/o the FF (like it should be) I see it as a very good battle, with Zeus ultimately taking it. Zeus' effortless trouncing of current Hulk (arguably the most powerful incarnation yet) leads me to believe he would be superior to Stonecutter, who was giving 8th Day Juggy a good fight.

Originally posted by FanBoy101
Troll... You referring to yourself in the 3rd person?