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Bayonetta
Link
Samus

Vs

Kratos
Ganondorf
Akuma

The fight takes place in an island

1st Scenerio
NO weapons or magic, just Hand to Hand only

2nd Scenerio
Bayonetta get's her magic and weapons (guns, rocket launcher shuruba and durga)
Link Get's all the masks and items from TP,OoT and MM (except giants mask)
Samus get's charge beam, missles, ice and plasma beam and all power ups

Kratos aquires Blades of athena, nemesis whips and barbarian hammer, efreet and horn of boreas, hermes boots, helios head and golden fleece and passive relics.

Ganondorf can use all of his magic attacks and abilities (Can't Change forms)

Akuma can use all of his specials, supers and ultra's.

Scenerio 3 same as 2 except:

She can now summon Madame butterfly, Gommorah and Malphas.
Link can go giant mode.
Samus can use any and all of of her suits at once and hyper mode.

Kratos can go giant mode
Ganondorf can transform
Akuma can transform into Oni form. (Since it is unknown how powerful he really get's his speed, strength and defense are boosted x 3 for this thread)

Round 1: Akuma or Kratos solo.

Round 2: Kratos quickly stuns and blinds them all with Lightspeed blasts from Helios' Head, after which, Akuma or Ganon pick them apart. vin

Round 3: Not commenting on this, mainly because I do not understand what happens when the characters go giant mode, or Samus gets to use all her suits at once (though that is likely an overkill ability)

Scenario 1: None of team 1 really has experience in hand to hand, except Samus' extremely limited grappling skills. Team 2 wins.

Scenario 2: Link takes down Ganondorf as usual, Bayonnetta Witch Times and takes potshots at Kratos, and I wanna say Samus defeats Akuma. Team up on Kratos, Team 1 wins.

Scenario 3: Bayonetta becomes broken, Samus becomes basically unkillable, and nothing much changes for Link, Ganondorf, or Akuma; Kratos becomes a bigger threat. I want to say Team 1 wins here.

Can link really defeat Ganon without plot power.

I recently replayed gow2 and there was one part of the game that showed time dickery has no effect on Kratos. Don't remember the exact scene though lemme see if I can find it.

How is bayonettas durability against elemental attacks? I'm thinking that attack kratos throws with the whips make short work of her.

It's right after he kills the Kraken, and rides the phoenix up onto a giant bird looking temple. Time was stopped inside and all of the items he needed to solve a puzzle were unable to be moved but Kratos was uneffected and could move around like normal just fine. Not sure how he does it though. May have something to do with the relic he got earlier in the game.

Point is, time stop nonsense aint working on him. Not sure about his teammates though.

And now that I think about it, I really pimped out samus suit didn't I?

Originally posted by The Scenario
Scenario 1: None of team 1 really has experience in hand to hand, except Samus' extremely limited grappling skills. Team 2 wins.

Scenario 2: Link takes down Ganondorf as usual, Bayonnetta Witch Times and takes potshots at Kratos, and I wanna say Samus defeats Akuma. Team up on Kratos, Team 1 wins.

Scenario 3: Bayonetta becomes broken, Samus becomes basically unkillable, and nothing much changes for Link, Ganondorf, or Akuma; Kratos becomes a bigger threat. I want to say Team 1 wins here.

Scenario 2: Not happening before Kratos blinds them all with Light. vin

Scenario 3: Basically agreed, though I don't think Bayonetta's broken, at least not to the extent that Samus is. And if by Giant Mode, he means Hope for Kratos, he becomes pretty broken as well.
This round is more of a toss up.

Originally posted by TheGoldenSpy
Can link really defeat Ganon without plot power.

I recently replayed gow2 and there was one part of the game that showed time dickery has no effect on Kratos. Don't remember the exact scene though lemme see if I can find it.

How is bayonettas durability against elemental attacks? I'm thinking that attack kratos throws with the whips make short work of her.

It's called MS.

True enough, I forgot all about that. That was a Time-Stop not started by Kratos, and while he had slowed down a bit, he wasn't stopped like everything else within the Time-stop's area of effect. I doubt it has anything to do with the Amulet of the Fates, since the relic can only activate a time-slow down.

Personally, I don't see why you included the 'passive' relics for Kratos, seeing as the only relic that falls under that would be Poseidon's Trident and Triton's Lance (which basically do the same thing for Kratos). Stuff like the Sun Shield, the Amulet of Fates, Rage of the Titans, or Icarus' Wings, are all useful in a fight, while you've already given him the Golden Fleece.

Also, by Giant mode, do you mean the form that Kratos used to fight Ares, as in when he was using Hope?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Scenario 2: Not happening before Kratos blinds them all with Light. vin


I hink Samus' visors can filter that out, or she can switch to a different one. Link has the mirror shield, how'll that work? Dunno about Bayonetta.



IIRC, Madam Butterfly(?) punched a god into the sun, destroying several planets in the process.

Samus has a bunch of suits, and each adds to damage reduction or puts an immunity on her. With all of them she's got immunity to: Acid, Heat, Cold, Gravity effects, Dark energy, and can move through water and magma without being slowed. I think the damage reduction totals around 430% or so if you add them all together, and I'm not really sure how that works. Hypermode basically makes Samus radioactive, turns all damage into ammo, and gives her attacks that tear things apart on the atomic level. While impressive, I believe Bayonetta's is a bit more.



Link and Ganondorf have done similar, if I'm reading this right. For Ganondorf, his entire army army, as well as himself, were sealed up in the sunken Hyrule Castle in Wind Waker. Time was frozen, and several monsters were actually stopped mid attack. Ganondorf proceeded to escape this. For Link, it's the same when he enters the area: everything is stopped but him. The only difference was that Link could move the block puzzle while Time was stopped.

Originally posted by The Scenario
I hink Samus' visors can filter that out, or she can switch to a different one. Link has the mirror shield, how'll that work? Dunno about Bayonetta.

Unless Samus has the appropriate visor already on, she's getting blinded a microsecond after Kratos launches the attack. Same goes for Link (assuming they are around 300 meters away, if not much closer).

Originally posted by The Scenario
IIRC, Madam Butterfly(?) punched a god into the sun, destroying several planets in the process.

Samus has a bunch of suits, and each adds to damage reduction or puts an immunity on her. With all of them she's got immunity to: Acid, Heat, Cold, Gravity effects, Dark energy, and can move through water and magma without being slowed. I think the damage reduction totals around 430% or so if you add them all together, and I'm not really sure how that works. Hypermode basically makes Samus radioactive, turns all damage into ammo, and gives her attacks that tear things apart on the atomic level. While impressive, I believe Bayonetta's is a bit more.

That was Queen Sheba, and Bayonetta needs help for that summon. Madama Butterfly is what Bayonetta uses when she typically creates those massive limbs and such.

Hmm, maybe her durability is amped by 4.3 times or something? The atom tearing ability sounds broken.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Link and Ganondorf have done similar, if I'm reading this right. For Ganondorf, his entire army army, as well as himself, were sealed up in the sunken Hyrule Castle in Wind Waker. Time was frozen, and several monsters were actually stopped mid attack. Ganondorf proceeded to escape this. For Link, it's the same when he enters the area: everything is stopped but him. The only difference was that Link could move the block puzzle while Time was stopped.

Sounds similar, but that block puzzle thing might be a gameplay thing. Does any artifact of Link's give him immunity to time-stopping/slowing?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Unless Samus has the appropriate visor already on, she's getting blinded a microsecond after Kratos launches the attack. Same goes for Link (assuming they are around 300 meters away, if not much closer).


How long does the blindness last, and how long does it take Kratos to pull the head out?



My mistake, then; haven't played Bayonetta. Didn't Madama Butterfly get into hundreds of gigatons of force at one point? I dunno.



The way the suits work make it weird. The Varia suit alone gives 50% damage reduction, meaning attacks only deal half damage. With Gravity, it adds 25% for a total of 75% (normally a given game's maximum level), and thus attacks deal only 1/4 of their normal damage to her. The way it works in game would make 100% damage reduction have attacks dealing no damage at all. Make the perecentages cumulative (if that's the right word) would work out to 99.999...and so on.



Only thing I can think of would be the Ocarina of Time. When Link uses, say, the Sun's song (changes night to day and vice-versa) or one of the time slowing or speeding songs, he remains unaffected. As does, well, everything else. When Link slows down time, the clocks slows down, but everyone still moves at normal pace. The only indication that time is slowed is the clock slowing and the sun taking twice as long to cross the sky. And at one point in Wind Waker Ganondorf stops time to prevent morning from coming, and not only is Link unaffected, neither is anyone else. The sun simply does not rise, and time effectively does not pass for the duration of the spell, even though people are still moving around.

I'm tempted to say the Zelda verse just doesn't percieve time like any other setting. Time manipulations affect the rate the sun moves and clocks, but everything else continues as normal.

It should be noted that it was the Mastersword itself which caused the time stop in WW, in a weakened state it froze all of Hyrule. It's also a powerful protective item that wards him from silly things like exactly that.

And now I am hearing Link and Ganondorf may also have immunity to Bayonetta's Time-Stop foolishness.

May I please see a youtube where it happens though?

At the moment it is looking like Bayonetta's ability will end up hindering what is probably the most versatile member of her team and she will have to tank hits from the opposite team, or dodge and risk witch time going off and lock Samus in place. I do not believe Akuma has rejected time stop either though.



He doesn't take any time in pulling any of his items out, and it blinded Cronos who probably had pupils the size of cattle for around a minute.

Yeah, it's what it says under the screen, but it's obviously not the real force that is displayed. It would take a teraton in bayonettaverse to hit a skyscraper with a head so I wouldn't trust those cool numbers at all. Akuma would be able to split planets under those standards

That said, she still physically very strong regardless.



So then her defenses increase x1? Yeah elemental attacks are going to do jack against her. Samus is probably going to only be damaged by physical force. If she has weapons that destroy beings on an atomic level, she is easily the most dangerous member of team one. Don't think anyone on team 2 has defense against that. For what it's worth though, Zeus practically erased people from existence with a blast from the BoO but Kratos can tank shots from him using that. May not be the same but it's the closest thing I can think of. Can Ganondorf possess her? Or lock her in a crystal?

@DP
If he used hope to turn giant mode, then I guess he technically get's that.

Originally posted by The Scenario
How long does the blindness last, and how long does it take Kratos to pull the head out?

Seeing as the head resides in hammerspace (literally the case for Kratos, as at one point, he pullls the Omphalos stone 'out of his ass'), it would take a minute amount of time for him to access the Head.

As for the blindness, dunno. Gameplay has it at a few seconds. Cronos had been blinded for quite a while, but that was from the 360 attack that the Head has, which requires about a second (in gameplay) of charging, and it also stuns the enemy. The other attack it possesses is basically instantaneous, and causes temporary blindness.

However, the light is bright/powerful enough that it causes Kratos to stagger back, even when his eyes are more or less closed, and his head is turned away.


Originally posted by The Scenario
My mistake, then; haven't played Bayonetta. Didn't Madama Butterfly get into hundreds of gigatons of force at one point? I dunno.

Dunno. Maybe. Could just be coolforce.

Originally posted by The Scenario
The way the suits work make it weird. The Varia suit alone gives 50% damage reduction, meaning attacks only deal half damage. With Gravity, it adds 25% for a total of 75% (normally a given game's maximum level), and thus attacks deal only 1/4 of their normal damage to her. The way it works in game would make 100% damage reduction have attacks dealing no damage at all. Make the perecentages cumulative (if that's the right word) would work out to 99.999...and so on.

What kind of attacks has she taken with some of the suits?
I don't think this hypothetical armor could reduce the damage of every single attack that was made against it...i.e. a no limits fallacy, but that may be moot here, as it's possible that she would be able to withstand brute-force attacks from Team 2.
I also think that it would function more like layers of different armor would, i.e. each layer has its own level of damage reduction up to a certain point of effectiveness; or do the suits integrate with each other?

I'm also guessing that wearing the extra suits wouldn't hinder her movement in any way.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Only thing I can think of would be the Ocarina of Time. When Link uses, say, the Sun's song (changes night to day and vice-versa) or one of the time slowing or speeding songs, he remains unaffected. As does, well, everything else. When Link slows down time, the clocks slows down, but everyone still moves at normal pace. The only indication that time is slowed is the clock slowing and the sun taking twice as long to cross the sky. And at one point in Wind Waker Ganondorf stops time to prevent morning from coming, and not only is Link unaffected, neither is anyone else. The sun simply does not rise, and time effectively does not pass for the duration of the spell, even though people are still moving around.

I'm tempted to say the Zelda verse just doesn't percieve time like any other setting. Time manipulations affect the rate the sun moves and clocks, but everything else continues as normal.

Is it expressively referred to as a time-stop, or was it just a spell that basically stopped the Sun from rising?

It could be that Time has different effects in Zelda-verse like you said, or that people in Zelda-verse are already immune to Time slowing.
It also could be that Ganon's spell and the Ocarina, do not affect other people when it comes to slowing down Time. srug
Though the clocks thing is really weird. Why would the clocks be affected, but everything else be the same?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Seeing as the head resides in hammerspace (literally the case for Kratos, as at one point, he pullls the Omphalos stone 'out of his ass'), it would take a minute amount of time for him to access the Head.

As for the blindness, dunno. Gameplay has it at a few seconds. Cronos had been blinded for quite a while, but that was from the 360 attack that the Head has, which requires about a second (in gameplay) of charging, and it also stuns the enemy. The other attack it possesses is basically instantaneous, and causes temporary blindness.

However, the light is bright/powerful enough that it causes Kratos to stagger back, even when his eyes are more or less closed, and his head is turned away.


Meh, moot point I guess, since everyone would have to have prior knowledge of it to counter it. I still wonder what effect the mirror shield would have, though, since it's more or less passive when Link isn't attacking. Wouldn't stop the blindness, but I'd think it would reflect the light.



Most of it would be gameplay, but Metroid weapons in general have evidence stating their at terawatt levels of power. The games include stuff like a 136 tonner with energy charged blades, matter-antimatter cannons, and the aforementioned atomic disruption, which is basically any phazon based weapon. In cutscene you're looking at Samus getting thrown across a room or taking a scythe to the face, both without visible damage. Other than that, Samus dodges everything.

On the other hand, there's the SA-X, an X-Parasite copying Samus' DNA and stealing the Varia suit. In gameplay it's invincible; beams and missiles bounce off the thing. It takes a combination of all of Samus' beam weapons, fully charged, just to hurt it, and missiles still deal no damage. It's terrifying, and pretty accurately shows how Samus looks to her enemies. At the end of that game, Samus absorbs the SA-X, so yeah.



Again, all gameplay. Most commonly, Samus gets the Varia suit, which adds 50% damage reduction, halving damage. Later, she gets the Gravity suit, and the total reduction is then 75%.

Personally, I don't think the damage reduction is important, being gameplay, so the immunities should be used instead. Samus is stated to be immune to temperature effects like heat and cold. She can run through magma unhindered, and the SA-X is unharmed by an uncharged plasma beam. I would say anyone (in this match) using fire or ice attacks against her is more or less out of luck. She's also immune to acid, reversed/increased gravity, and dark energy, but I don't think anyone here uses those?



Nah, they're essentially upgrades to the shielding and the last one overrides the appearance of the others. While still keeping the damage reduction.




All I have is this:
_X5q3RoyHes

0:10, "It is as if time itself is frozen." He notes the lack of morning, so it could be. Everything keeps moving as normal, but morning does not come until Link breaks the curse.

I wouldn't know what to think if Ganondorf could actually stop a star from moving/planet from rotating, so I sorta want to go with pseudo-timestop.



Well, it slows down the Majora's Mask time limit. Link only has 3 days, but can slow time to get the eqivalent of six days. The day takes twice as long to pass, but everyone still moves at normal pace and the in game clock slows down. It is wierd.

Bayonetta gets stunned with nemesis rage and gets uppercutted into the sun by akuma.

How is Samus defense against electrical attacks?

Why give Link Giant Form? He'll be better off with his Oni Form AKA Fierce Deity.

Originally posted by Remi8193
Why give Link Giant Form? He'll be better off with his Oni Form AKA Fierce Deity. FD Link is featless. It gives Link no quantifiable boost.

Samus is far from "goody two shoes"

just sayin

Actually, the people still get to all of their places and stay there for the exact same times on the clock. The mailman for example moves very slowly despite using his normal jogging animation.

Link can slow time, it's just not accurately reflected in the gameplay of MM partially due to hardware limitations and partially for reasons of balance. mmm Imagine how easy the game would be with all of the enemies in slow motion. Link himself remains unaffected.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
FD Link is featless. It gives Link no quantifiable boost.
I thought its mean't to make Link 10x's powerful and also he has infinite blade beams.

Originally posted by Remi8193
I thought its mean't to make Link 10x's powerful and also he has infinite blade beams. It's not. Where you got that figure from, I have no clue.

Giants mask > FD

Link grows 300 feet tall.

When he is human size, he's already very physically powerful. Now consider the same guy with 30x more muscle mass and way heavier. He excerts way more power simply by walking.

Originally posted by TheGoldenSpy
Bayonetta gets stunned with nemesis rage and gets uppercutted into the sun by akuma.

How is Samus defense against electrical attacks?

She doesn't have a weakness to it if that's what you're asking. Otherwise it's just another attack against her. An Electromagnetic pulse screws up her visor for half a second in the Prime games (rest of the suit unaffected) and normal electricity doesn't.

All gameplay. Of note:

gcemRrXqCbE

It's possible for Samus to kill Draygon (as in, this is the secret way, not the normal way) by channeling electricity through herself and electrocuting him.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It's not. Where you got that figure from, I have no clue.
But ain't Fierce Deity mean't to be a demon god? Because in Japanese the mask is referred as Oni which means devil and they also said that Fierce Deity is a god aswell.

So wouldn't it be:
Demon/God Form > Giant Form

Originally posted by Remi8193
But ain't Fierce Deity mean't to be a demon god? Because in Japanese the mask is referred as Oni which means devil and they also said that Fierce Deity is a god aswell.

So wouldn't it be:
Demon/God Form > Giant Form

But there's still no evidence as to what really happens with it on. You're basically just guessing, which doesn't work for debates.

Originally posted by The Scenario
But there's still no evidence as to what really happens with it on. You're basically just guessing, which doesn't work for debates.
Even though he's a Demongod, which would make him immortal.

Originally posted by Remi8193
Even though he's a Demongod, which would make him immortal.

No, you're just assuming that would make him immortal. You're also just assuming that it would make him a demon god. With the assumption that being a god matters. By Legend of Zelda's definition, the Deku Tree and Jabu-Jabu are gods; Ganondorf killed both of them.

We just don't have any concrete facts on what the Oni/Fierce Deity Mask can do; we have to make guess and speculate based soley on the name. Being the "Oni" can also means you're "it" in a game of tag. It can also mean an Ogre.

We just don't know, so giving Link the win based on a guess is unfair.