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1. Simian Beast

2. Cat Beast

vs

1. X-23

2. Trigger Scent

X-23 in both

Originally posted by jalek moye
X-23 in both

Yeah, kinda unfair to put a chick who is basically Wolverine's near equal in every way...plus her razor sharp adamantium claws up against a fuzzball. Beast's well...he's a beast, but his durability is no match for her nails.

And even if he can avoid them, he'd have to literally rip her apart to keep her down, and while both versions are more than strong enough to rip apart a human, unless Cat Beast just went totally feral, it wouldn't happen.

she doenst pack the durabilty to survive him either as bones break and her limbs can be pulled apart. so this levels the playing field some. withou CIS, if he went for the kill, he could take her down.

Originally posted by 753
she doenst pack the durabilty to survive him either as bones break and her limbs can be pulled apart. so this levels the playing field some. withou CIS, if he went for the kill, he could take her down.


no.............wrong much?

i hope you're gorgeous for your sake.

Originally posted by King Castle
i hope you're gorgeous for your sake.


so im assuming you agree with him?


and yes....i am

i just wanted a set up.

prove it

its possible and very likely that Beast has the strength to break her bones if he were allowed and even rip her arm off.

Originally posted by King Castle
i just wanted a set up.

prove it

its possible and very likely that Beast has the strength to break her bones if he were allowed and even rip her arm off.


well for one you and i both know without scans as proof that beast sucks monkey nuts in melee...he's was one-shotted by a goon in a recent SA issue. Althoughhe does have the strength, he does NOT have the skill to pull off a maneuver on X-23..show me Beast killing or maiming ANYONE (of note) and id concede

it's why 753 said CIS off..

i wanna see a pic of you know who not a comic scan of beastdepri

Originally posted by King Castle
it's why 753 said CIS off..

i wanna see a pic of you know who not a comic scan of beastdepri

can u upload from a pc to this site?


and cis off he's still get slaughtered...he wont survive one stab

yes.fastnuts

use the upload link beneath the text box on the right.

browse for an img and double click and load make sure they're not too big..

Originally posted by Sin I AM
no.............wrong much? I know you're new here, so I'll break it to you: I'm always right.

KC already took care of explaining why.

Originally posted by 753
I know you're new here, so I'll break it to you: I'm always right.

KC already took care of explaining why.

new lmao ive been here for years guy........and your generally wrong

Originally posted by King Castle
yes.fastnuts

use the upload link beneath the text box on the right.

browse for an img and double click and load make sure they're not too big..



ahhh i see....i'll put in in the ownage thread

Originally posted by King Castle
i hope you're gorgeous for your sake.



Originally posted by Sin I AM
and yes....i am



Originally posted by King Castle
prove it
Originally posted by Sin I AM
can u upload from a pc to this site?


pullhairyou're playin mind games arent you? whimper

Originally posted by King Castle
pullhairyou're playin mind games arent you? whimper


oh course its what we (women) do

Originally posted by Sin I AM
new lmao ive been here for years guy........and your generally wrong just caught that, you simply post very little compared to most here. No dice on the second statement though. I do find you come up with a lot of opinions not based on much though, like the one in this thread.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
and your generally wrong

shes got you there 753

Originally posted by inimalist
shes got you there 753 nice to see you posting in the comics forums too for a change

how good is x-23's hf?

Originally posted by 753
nice to see you posting in the comics forums too for a change

ya, I started here years ago... realized I missed it when I got into KK's tourney

but ya, X-23 with little difficulty

Originally posted by inimalist
ya, I started here years ago... realized I missed it when I got into KK's tourney

but ya, X-23 with little difficulty oh I agree

Originally posted by Starscream M
how good is x-23's hf? good enough to play rope a dope with lady deathstrike. not good enough to sprout a lost limb midbattle.

Originally posted by 753
just caught that, you simply post very little compared to most here. No dice on the second statement though. I do find you come up with a lot of opinions not based on much though, like the one in this thread.


Beast is a joke in melee...he only has one good showin in his history and thats when he went feral during the Danger arc...IIRC..people tend to think that by taking CIS off that characters will automatically become a powerhouse which is incorrect. If I gave you superhuman attributes, lets say 2-5 ton range...and i had only olympic level attributes, but i was an accomplished MAer...id whoop your ass, simply because im more skilled...its really common sense


i only post in the comic and sig forum...everything else is irrelevant


and i base my opinions...off my opinions bucko

X-23

Originally posted by Sin I AM
If I gave you superhuman attributes, lets say 2-5 ton range...and i had only olympic level attributes, but i was an accomplished MAer...id whoop your ass, simply because im more skilled...its really common sense

not really

skill can do a lot, but in real fights, like in the real world, skill can only do so much against power

there are some exceptions, but not really, even stuff like akiedo can only make up for so much strength. Someone with 2-5 ton strength would annihilate you

This isn't true in comics, but in comics, Eastern Martial Arts are treated as if they are a super power

i support Sin I am post minus the 2-5 ton comparison.. depends on who gets the lucky blow and exploits the other

Originally posted by inimalist
not really

skill can do a lot, but in real fights, like in the real world, skill can only do so much against power

there are some exceptions, but not really, even stuff like akiedo can only make up for so much strength. Someone with 2-5 ton strength would annihilate you

This isn't true in comics, but in comics, Eastern Martial Arts are treated as if they are a super power


hmmmmmmmmm...i respect your opinion but i disagree completely. I still think i will defeat the average joe with olympic level stats... remember im the pinnacle human training

a well trained 120 pound woman would have severe trouble with a 250 pound man, regardless of fighting style, so long as the man is competent enough not to fall over themselves. Unless you are saying the stronger fighter tires more easily or is restricted in mobility by body mass, it really isn't much of a contest, so long as we are going by "real world" standards.

This is without even considering how dense someone with 2-5 ton strength's body would be. The olympic level athlete would be hard pressed to move the person, and their strikes would hardly do any damage.

you can disagree all you want /shrug

real world weight and mass is very important but not as important as combat mindset and by that i mean willingness to outright kill and maim rather then play punch for punch game. that many ppl in life thing is a real fight which is not.

if a 120- 30 lb woman grips and rips the throat it doesnt matter how big the other person is if he/she is simply tryin to pummel for a ko while the other is eye gouging knee breaking etc etc

Originally posted by inimalist
a well trained 120 pound woman would have severe trouble with a 250 pound man, regardless of fighting style, so long as the man is competent enough not to fall over themselves. Unless you are saying the stronger fighter tires more easily or is restricted in mobility by body mass, it really isn't much of a contest, so long as we are going by "real world" standards.

This is without even considering how dense someone with 2-5 ton strength's body would be. The olympic level athlete would be hard pressed to move the person, and their strikes would hardly do any damage.

you can disagree all you want /shrug


im an well trained (only weigh 125) mixed martial arts practioner...and i ALWAYS challenge guys larger than myself in the Marine Corps and in the Army, and ive only lost two fights, and that was simply because they were beter fighters...i usually use larger guys weight and height against them, plus im faster and more agile

Originally posted by King Castle
if a 120- 30 lb woman grips and rips the throat it doesnt matter how big the other person is if he/she is simply tryin to pummel for a ko while the other is eye gouging knee breaking etc etc

yes, but provided the person being attacked isn't incompetent, their power advantage is going to make this type of thing difficult at least

though I agree, a MA that attempts to maim like those in the military would be way more effective than any of the flashy stuff

Originally posted by inimalist
a well trained 120 pound woman would have severe trouble with a 250 pound man, regardless of fighting style, so long as the man is competent enough not to fall over themselves. Unless you are saying the stronger fighter tires more easily or is restricted in mobility by body mass, it really isn't much of a contest, so long as we are going by "real world" standards.

This is without even considering how dense someone with 2-5 ton strength's body would be. The olympic level athlete would be hard pressed to move the person, and their strikes would hardly do any damage.

you can disagree all you want /shrug it depends on whether the women has a weapon or not

a trained 90 pound women his sharp blades is more deadly than a 250 pound ufc fighter

Originally posted by Sin I AM
im an well trained (only weigh 125) mixed martial arts practioner...and i ALWAYS challenge guys larger than myself in the Marine Corps and in the Army, and ive only lost two fights, and that was simply because they were beter fighters...i usually use larger guys weight and height against them, plus im faster and more agile

that actually proves my point

you use larger guys to practice on because they are a challenge

I'd also suspect sparring doesn't well represent a real fight

Originally posted by Starscream M
it depends on whether the women has a weapon or not

a trained 90 pound women his sharp blades is more deadly than a 250 pound ufc fighter

oh, for sure

the only real point I'm making is that, once you get into unnatural human strength levels, such as 2-5 ton strength, skill is going to do very little in winning that fight in a real world situation

an infant with a gun can take out a 400 pound samurai ninja

Originally posted by Sin I AM
im an well trained (only weigh 125) mixed martial arts practioner...and i ALWAYS challenge guys larger than myself in the Marine Corps and in the Army, and ive only lost two fights, and that was simply because they were beter fighters...i usually use larger guys weight and height against them, plus im faster and more agile Darlin that's b/c you never fought me when in the service.

i dont play around even with women, i break them down with a quickness.... you know the guys you beat were tan belts wet behind the ears boots.. the vets you did fight you know they held back at least enough due to you being a female... b/c i have, you have too b/c the amount of pressure needed to apply on a 225 gym rat is different then the the female you are tryin to put an a lock without breaking a bone

Originally posted by inimalist
yes, but provided the person being attacked isn't incompetent, their power advantage is going to make this type of thing difficult at least

though I agree, a MA that attempts to maim like those in the military would be way more effective than any of the flashy stuff real fighter would be more effective then your MMA cage fighters

X in both in character Beast cant win

Originally posted by King Castle
Darlin that's b/c you never fought me when in the service.

i dont play around even with women, i break them down with a quickness.... you know the guys you beat were tan belts wt behind the ears boots.. the vets you did fight you know they held back at least enough due to you being a female... b/c i have you have too b/c the amount of pressure needed to apply on a 225 gym rat is different then the the female you are tryin to put an a lock without breaking a bone

I was under the assumption that the proper application of military MAs ended up with broken bones and physically incapacitated opponents

like, its like Krav Maga, not really a "sparring" style, because you can't use it effectively if you aren't trying to injure your opponent? or am i wrong?

Originally posted by inimalist
that actually proves my point

you use larger guys to practice on because they are a challenge

I'd also suspect sparring doesn't well represent a real fight


these werent sparring matches these are actual fights, because in the military we dont discriminate in match set-ups. u can challenge whoever, and men tend to take it hard losing to a woman. But if your referring to a match where people are seeking to maim or kill then i suppose your right to a degree, but ive yet to see a man thats pound for pound my equal

Originally posted by inimalist
I was under the assumption that the proper application of military MAs ended up with broken bones and physically incapacitated opponents

like, its like Krav Maga, not really a "sparring" style, because you can't use it effectively if you aren't trying to injure your opponent? or am i wrong? Nope you are right

I'd like to point out that inimalist has been correct on every single point he's made thus far.

In the real world, size is a sizable(pun intended) advantage.

As for the forum match, I actually do believe Beast is capable of breaking Laura's bones; however, I do not believe it will matter much.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
but ive yet to see a man thats pound for pound my equal

this is my point though

I'm saying, pound for pound, sure, a trained fighter is better than a powerhouse.

When the pounds are so disproportionate that one is peak human while the other is 5-10 times that, being a better fighter isn't as applicable. sure, you have a chance, but at 2-5 tons, a glancing blow will potentially break bones

Originally posted by Sin I AM
these werent sparring matches these are actual fights, because in the military we dont discriminate in match set-ups. u can challenge whoever, and men tend to take it hard losing to a woman. But if your referring to a match where people are seeking to maim or kill then i suppose your right to a degree, but ive yet to see a man thats pound for pound my equal You must be godly then and despite what you think men do tend to hold back when sparring with the female gender

Originally posted by King Castle

real fighter would be more effective then your MMA cage fighters
With improvised weapons, yes. In strictly hand to hand, no they aren't.

Originally posted by inimalist
I was under the assumption that the proper application of military MAs ended up with broken bones and physically incapacitated opponents

like, its like Krav Maga, not really a "sparring" style, because you can't use it effectively if you aren't trying to injure your opponent? or am i wrong? Marine MCMAP is a mixture of various grappling styles using what is effective for maiming, joint, manipulation, kill blows.. etc etc..

it has a few of everything. i use to be a TKD instructor with some minor korean kick boxing and jeet kune do plus my american high school wrestling..

a lot of what was taught in MCMAP overlapped what i already knew and taught as an instructor from TKD black belt grappling techniques, Wrestling Maneuvers and kicks.. plus they threw in some knife fighting which was completely different from what i was taught in MA civy.

too be honest i wasnt a fan of MCMAP in the service or at least in the training method.

you have a bunch of kids and you tell them look this is how you grapple, arm and leg break now you try.

10 seconds later you hear a snap of bone b/c they were never taught self control and are a bunch of hormonally aggressive kids who dont apply slow steady pressure and in real world MA they would never would have been taught any of that in their 1st yr of training let alone 1st ten minutes of arrival.. majority of them would have bn refused training the minute they asked them why.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I'd like to point out that inimalist has been correct on every single point he's made thus far.

In the real world, size is a sizable(pun intended) advantage.

As for the forum match, I actually do believe Beast is capable of breaking Laura's bones; however, I do not believe it will matter much. Even in the real world it depends on the indivisuals fighting

Originally posted by iceman24567
You must be godly then and despite what you think men do tend to hold back when sparring with the female gender


not when titles are on the line, but i understand your bias




Originally posted by King Castle
Marine MCMAP is a mixture of various grappling styles using what is effective for maiming, joint, manipulation, kill blows.. etc etc..

it has a few of everything. i use to be a TKD instructor with some minor korean kick boxing and jeet kune do plus my american high school wrestling..

a lot of what was taught in MCMAP overlapped what i already knew and taught as an instructor from TKD black belt grappling techniques, Wrestling Maneuvers and kicks.. plus they threw in some knife fighting which was completely different from what i was taught in MA civy.

too be honest i wasnt a fan of MCMAP in the service or at least in the training method.

you have a bunch of kids and you tell them look this is how you grapple, arm and leg break now you try.

10 seconds later you hear a snap of bone b/c they were never taught self control and are a bunch of hormonally aggressive kids who dont apply slow steady pressure and in real world MA they would never would have been taught any of that in their 1st yr of training let alone 1st ten minutes of arrival.. majority of them would have bn refused training the minute they asked them why.


your were in the corps KC? where were u stationed, and what belt did u hold?

Originally posted by King Castle
Marine MCMAP is a mixture of various grappling styles using what is effective for maiming, joint, manipulation, kill blows.. etc etc..

it has a few of everything. i use to be a TKD instructor with some minor korean kick boxing and jeet kune do plus my american high school wrestling..

a lot of what was taught in MCMAP overlapped what i already knew and taught as an instructor from TKD black belt grappling techniques, Wrestling Maneuvers and kicks.. plus they through in some knife fighting which was completely different from what i was taught in MA civy.

too be honest i wasnt a fan of MCMAP in the service or at least in the training method.

you have a bunch of kids and you tell them look this is how you grapple, arm and leg break now you try.

10 seconds later you hear a snap of bone b/c they were never taught self control and are a bunch of hormonally aggressive kids who dont apply slow steady pressure and in real world MA they would never would have been taught any of that in their 1st yr of training let alone 1st ten minutes of arrival.. majority of them would have bn refused training the minute they asked them why.

thats sort of what I thought

like, if you and I were to spar, aside from how much of a joke it would be, you would actually have to try harder not to break my bones using the techniques, yes?

and ya, I do have much respect for MAs, its the mental state they teach that is awesome

if you were fighting a guy that strong in real life he'd snap your bones easily

no matter your training...all you could try to do is choke them somehow which wouldn't work because he'd overpower you in every position THATS COMMON SENSE

There was an issue of Punisher Max were Frank was fighting some little Korean dude. The narration is going on about how skilled and deadly the guy is, and the it says "but it doesn't matter if you are the most skilled fighter in the world when you opponent is 6'2 and 220lbs," and then Frank just effortless rails him.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
There was an issue of Punisher Max were Frank was fighting some little Korean dude. The narration is going on about how skilled and deadly the guy is, and the it says "but it doesn't matter if you are the most skilled fighter in the world when you opponent is 6'2 and 220lbs," and then Frank just effortless rails him.

the one where he picks the guy up by the leg and smashes him off of stuff?

Originally posted by inimalist
the one where he picks the guy up by the leg and smashes him off of stuff?

Yeah lol

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
There was an issue of Punisher Max were Frank was fighting some little Korean dude. The narration is going on about how skilled and deadly the guy is, and the it says "but it doesn't matter if you are the most skilled fighter in the world when you opponent is 6'2 and 220lbs," and then Frank just effortless rails him.

thats b.s.....but im a strong believer in applied fighting, strength does not always equal success..but alas its only an opinion, and at the end of the day Beast will still lose

Originally posted by iceman24567
Even in the real world it depends on the indivisuals fighting
The larger fighter doesn't always win of course, but size(and strength) is probably the best advantage to have over your opponent where physical attributes are concerned.

Even Georges St. Pierre admits that Anderson Silva's size advantage is a massive obstacle to overcome were they to ever fight.

Originally posted by StyleTime
With improvised weapons, yes. In strictly hand to hand, no they aren't. no. in MMA fighters are only a small number of ppl in the sport who train using MMA method which in themselves are not fully accredited nor properly instructed on. they use size and strength and what little they can steal from various styles not being fully knowledgeable in the mechanics or principle of the style.

these fighters train to ko opponents not kill it is a sport however bloody it may appear to you these men are not the strongest nor the meanest brutalist SOB's on the planet they are just the ones that manage to get into a televised sport.

a "real fighter" will not attempt to trade blows every move is to kill and maim and the small number of men in MMA sport only number in a few hundred at most a killer a fighter who fights and is trained militarily in whatever branch and nation number in the millions and i guarantee these men who have fought for life and death in unarmed combat would murder those sportman a hundred time over not just b/c of the number but overall mindset and it will not always be some one of equal height nor weight as the MMA sportman.

i mean do you think the best MMA champion can defeat every Marine grunt, gym Rat, MCMAP instructor in an all out fight i dare say there are thousands that would make short work of the current champion if push came to shove

There is a reason there are weight classes in all organized fighting, it's because being 60-80 pounds on someone is a nearly insurmountable handicap regardless of the aggregate skill of the fighters. Even a two inch reach advantage is massive edge in a fight.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
There is a reason there are weight classes in all organized fighting, it's because being 60-80 pounds on someone is a nearly insurmountable handicap regardless of the aggregate skill of the fighters. Even a two inch reach advantage is massive edge in a fight. WELL SAID
COMMON SENSE

Originally posted by Sin I AM
thats b.s.....but im a strong believer in applied fighting, strength does not always equal success..

I don't think anyone was disagreeing with that, and maybe I was overstating the 120 pound girl vs 250 pound guy (though I still think odds would be on the man's side), that isn't the same as a comparison between an olympic level athlete and a 2-5 tonner. It would be arguable if the hardest blows from the olympian would have any effect on the larger combatant, and without doubt, the olymipan would be unable to sweep this guy off his feet or control their momentum. Further, the force of any blow landed by the larger would demolish the olympian in a way that a 250 pound person couldn't do to a toddler.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yeah lol

great issue (actually, pretty good arc too)

Originally posted by King Castle
no. in MMA fighters are only a small number of ppl in the sport who train using MMA method which in themselves are not fully accredited nor properly instructed on. they use size and strength and what little they can steal from various styles not being fully knowledgeable in the mechanics or principle of the style.

these fighters train to ko opponents not kill it is a sport however bloody it may appear to you these men are not the strongest nor the meanest brutalist SOB's on the planet they are just the ones that manage to get into a televised sport.

a "real fighter" will not attempt to trade blows every move is to kill and maim and the small number of men in MMA sport only number in a few hundred at most a killer a fighter who fights and is trained militarily in whatever branch and nation number in the millions and i guarantee these men who have fought for life and death in unarmed combat would murder those sportman a hundred time over not just b/c of the number but overall mindset and it will not always be some one of equal height nor weight as the MMA sportman.

i mean do you think the best MMA champion can defeat every Marine grunt, gym Rat, MCMAP instructor in an all out fight i dare say there are thousands that would make short work of the current champion if push came to shove
That's false. While there are fighers who began training in "MMA" from day one, the majority come from the some other background. They aren't just practiced brawlers.

You don't have to be mean to be a fighter. Most are actually nice people.

They "trade blows" because they are equal in skill. When you see a superior fighter, like Anderson Silva, the matches are over pretty quickly when he gets serious.

Yes, I do. These guys train against the best to be the best in hand to hand. This fabled "kill trigger" is literally a matter of just....holding your choke those extra few seconds. It's not some industry secret that only the military knows.

Originally posted by StyleTime
The larger fighter doesn't always win of course, but size(and strength) is probably the best advantage to have over your opponent where physical attributes are concerned.

Even Georges St. Pierre admits that Anderson Silva's size advantage is a massive obstacle to overcome were they to ever fight. True for the most part but bigger muscles or a bigger body can be a dissadvantage too size does matter though

Originally posted by Sin I AM
not when titles are on the line, but i understand your bias







your were in the corps KC? where were u stationed, and what belt did u hold? i told you already.. we had this discussion yrs ago. when you didnt believe me in the general discussion.

i told you, i was leaving the service then you told me your Marine stuff. Ms. i like to abuse my recruits.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
There is a reason there are weight classes in all organized fighting, it's because being 60-80 pounds on someone is a nearly insurmountable handicap regardless of the aggregate skill of the fighters. Even a two inch reach advantage is massive edge in a fight. we dont use weight class in the Marine corp in grappling sessions and Bull fighting.

it is actually specifically made that way which is why Sin I AM could fight larger guys then herself. hell, i fought an overgrown Gym Rat and choked him out. plus Bull fighting which is you keep fighting with individual marines till you get taken down...

i took down the big dude who had me beat by a foot and easily 50 lbs and two others after.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
not when titles are on the line, but i understand your bias







your were in the corps KC? where were u stationed, and what belt did u hold? No you dont

Originally posted by StyleTime
That's false. While there are fighers who began training in "MMA" from day one, the majority come from the some other background. They aren't just practiced brawlers.

You don't have to be mean to be a fighter. Most are actually nice people.

They "trade blows" because they are equal in skill. When you see a superior fighter, like Anderson Silva, the matches are over pretty quickly when he gets serious.

Yes, I do. These guys train against the best to be the best in hand to hand. This fabled "kill trigger" is literally a matter of just....holding your choke those extra few seconds. It's not some industry secret that only the military knows.

I don't know, I think he is right. UFC and Pride fighters are athletes, they are competing in sporting events with rules and regulations. Their training is specifically designed to allow them to flourish with in the confines of those rules. I don't think many of them would have nearly as much success outside of those parameters in a fight for their life against military men trained to kill.

Originally posted by King Castle
no. in MMA fighters are only a small number of ppl in the sport who train using MMA method which in themselves are not fully accredited nor properly instructed on. they use size and strength and what little they can steal from various styles not being fully knowledgeable in the mechanics or principle of the style.

these fighters train to ko opponents not kill it is a sport however bloody it may appear to you these men are not the strongest nor the meanest brutalist SOB's on the planet they are just the ones that manage to get into a televised sport.

a "real fighter" will not attempt to trade blows every move is to kill and maim and the small number of men in MMA sport only number in a few hundred at most a killer a fighter who fights and is trained militarily in whatever branch and nation number in the millions and i guarantee these men who have fought for life and death in unarmed combat would murder those sportman a hundred time over not just b/c of the number but overall mindset and it will not always be some one of equal height nor weight as the MMA sportman.

i mean do you think the best MMA champion can defeat every Marine grunt, gym Rat, MCMAP instructor in an all out fight i dare say there are thousands that would make short work of the current champion if push came to shove
Co-signed.

When my buddy Zach got back from Iraq from the marines he started training at my gym. In practice, during sparring I would completely dominate his ass.

Several weeks later he got attacked by knife point on the street and stomped the guys leg in half without so much as taking a scratch.

I would NOT want to get into a real/no rules fight with my buddy. He's trained/conditioned/and hardwired to kill, maim, and otherwise destroy. I'm more or less just an athlete trained to trade.

Originally posted by StyleTime
That's false. While there are fighers who began training in "MMA" from day one, the majority come from the some other background. They aren't just practiced brawlers.

You don't have to be mean to be a fighter. Most are actually nice people.

They "trade blows" because they are equal in skill. When you see a superior fighter, like Anderson Silva, the matches are over pretty quickly when he gets serious.

Yes, I do. These guys train against the best to be the best in hand to hand. This fabled "kill trigger" is literally a matter of just....holding your choke those extra few seconds. It's not some industry secret that only the military knows. 1st off if they were as skilled as you think they be able to kill some one with the 1st blow or ko them regardless of strength and how equally skilled they may be the minute they get an opening. problem is many dont know how and using a choking method actually makes my point there are vastly more ways to take and kill your opponent foolish enough to tackle, wrestle with a trained killer.

hell, if the MMA fighters knew what the f$@# they were doing they would be able to break an arm the minute the other tried to chock them while sitting on them which i dont see happening all the time in UFC. a well place strike full strength slightly above the fully extended elbow would break the arm regardless of the other fighters strength and muscle ending the fight. and there is no rule against certain moves b/c you see these fighters using rabbet like strikes to weaken the arm without even thinking of just breaking it which leaves one to believe that they dont possess the actual combat mindset

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't know, I think he is right. UFC and Pride fighters are athletes, they are competing in sporting events with rules and regulations. Their training is specifically designed to allow them to flourish with in the confines of those rules. I don't think many of them would have nearly as much success outside of those parameters in a fight for their life against military men trained to kill.
oh you already covered that I see.

LMAO interesting stories here

Originally posted by Sin I AM

your were in the corps KC? where were u stationed, and what belt did u hold? forgot to answer you're question.

yes. i was station in Camp Pendleton, 43 area los pulgas. i was a green belt assistant instructor in MCMAP.

in my civilian MA i was a 1st degree blk belt in TKD started at 14 or so.. was an instructor at 16 and continued training and teaching till i was 22. never went higher b/c frankly i didnt care enough, i simply did it to teach the kids and taught adults in self defense mostly women.

I think this thread is full of people who could beat me up...

Luckily I look intimidating so no one ever messes with me! Plus I can run really fast! Hurray!

Originally posted by iceman24567
True for the most part but bigger muscles or a bigger body can be a dissadvantage too size does matter though
I can agree with that.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't know, I think he is right. UFC and Pride fighters are athletes, they are competing in sporting events with rules and regulations. Their training is specifically designed to allow them to flourish with in the confines of those rules. I don't think many of them would have nearly as much success outside of those parameters in a fight for their life against military men trained to kill.
From my understanding, the military trains people in the use of improvised weapons, so I would give them the win in a random, anything goes encounter. I don't see the same happening in hand to hand.

For example, I don't see your typical military guy taking Anderson Silva. Head movement + KTFO punch works just as well in any unarmed setting. Brock Lesnar, as terrible as he is, could probably smash a fair percentage of military combatants I'd imagine. This stuff is starting to sound reminiscent of the whole "too deadly for sports" argument that the "traditional" martial artists used during the rise of MMA. I know that's not what you're saying, but it operates on a similar mystique about a certain group.

Keep in mind, I'm not just talking about Pride/UFC here either.
Originally posted by King Castle
1st off if they were as skilled as you think they be able to kill some one with the 1st blow or ko them regardless of strength and how equally skilled they may the minute they get an opening. problem is many dont know how and using a choking method actually makes my point there are vastly more ways to take and kill your opponent foolish enough to tackle, wrestle with a trained killer.

hell, if the MMA fighters knew what the f$@# they were doing they would be able to break an arm the minute the other tried to chock them while sitting on them which i dont see happening all the time in UFC. a well place strike full strength slightly above the fully extended elbow would break the arm regardless of the other fighters strength and muscle ending the fight. and there is no rule against certain moves b/c you see these fighters using rabbet like strikes to weaken the arm without even thinking of just breaking it which leaves one to believe that they dont possess the actual combat mindset
If you're fighting someone of equal ability, obviously you can't just one shot them (barring some random, flash KO/submission).

If you're getting choked, you likely not in a position to break the other guy's arm with a strike.

The top guys are able to defeat other top guys that train 8-12 hours daily to defeat other top guys. Calling them unskilled is just incorrect.

I don't think most marines could beat UFC fighters in the ring.

Get back on topic or the thread gets closed and warnings will be given.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't think most marines could beat UFC fighters in the ring.

Obviously, their entire training is pretty much a print out of illegal moves...

Originally posted by Badabing
Get back on topic or the thread gets closed and warnings will be given. Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Obviously, their entire training is pretty much a print out of illegal moves... Yep, you get a warning.

Originally posted by Badabing
Yep, you get a warning.

Seriously? For a post that was posted the very same minute yours was? Obviously I started writing it before your post went live... but whatever. Next time I'll use clairvoyance.

X-23 wins. Beast is beastly(LOLIAMHILARIOUS), but X-23's powerset and skills are too large of an advantage in this fight.

Edit: I am pretty sure he is joking srank.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Seriously? For a post that was posted the very same minute yours was? Obviously I started writing it before your post went live... but whatever. Next time I'll use clairvoyance. Warned for arguing with a mod. And not knowing when I posted or what I was thinking.

Anyone else?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
There was an issue of Punisher Max were Frank was fighting some little Korean dude. The narration is going on about how skilled and deadly the guy is, and the it says "but it doesn't matter if you are the most skilled fighter in the world when you opponent is 6'2 and 220lbs," and then Frank just effortless rails him. the little dude in speedos the man of stone sent in? IIRC he knocked the **** out of castle in a split second earlier on though. it's when frank realizes he's gonna be impotent to save the girl and has a flashback of his family dying before his eyes while he could do nothing to save them, that he snaps. point being that the psychological drive to prevail>fighting prowess.

Originally posted by Badabing
Warned for arguing with a mod. And not knowing when I posted or what I was thinking.

Anyone else? you're being a big mean jerk!

Originally posted by Badabing
Warned for arguing with a mod. And not knowing when I posted or what I was thinking.

Anyone else?

http://www.tipiloschi.net/nino/ninoland/MartyFeldmanIgor.jpg

Yes master.

Originally posted by King Castle
forgot to answer you're question.

yes. i was station in Camp Pendleton, 43 area los pulgas. i was a green belt assistant instructor in MCMAP.

in my civilian MA i was a 1st degree blk belt in TKD started at 14 or so.. was an instructor at 16 and continued training and teaching till i was 22. never went higher b/c frankly i didnt care enough, i simply did it to teach the kids and taught adults in self defense mostly women.


i bet id kick your ass,............but does anyone have a good argument for beast winning?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
but does anyone have a good argument for beast winning? no

Originally posted by Starscream M
no


i didnt think so, so KC makes another spite thread

i did not!

i thought this was a better match for Beast then the Wolvie one.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i bet id kick your ass,............ only if there was something i get out of it, Darlin. i was bettered trained then my instructors and was constantly praised by my CWO of my skill lvl..

plus we did spartan runs in my MCMAP prior to fighting.

Originally posted by King Castle
i thought this was a better match for Beast then the Wolvie one.

it is, he still is stomped though

Originally posted by Starscream M
you're being a big mean jerk! ohno

You're a poop face! Originally posted by srankmissingnin
http://www.tipiloschi.net/nino/ninoland/MartyFeldmanIgor.jpg

Yes master. Igor.

First of all, Brains over Brawns but then again beast has both I don't think anyone has used that here yet but beast doesn't only use sheer force in his battles.

Originally posted by Robin Dc
First of all, Brains over Brawns but then again beast has both I don't think anyone has used that here yet but beast doesn't only use sheer force in his battles.

how does Hank win here boy wonder?

Well, he is kind-hearted and the kind-hearted always win!

Originally posted by 753
she doenst pack the durabilty to survive him either as bones break and her limbs can be pulled apart. so this levels the playing field some. withou CIS, if he went for the kill, he could take her down.

^ Damn, haven't seen you around for a while.

Yea, I go through long gaps. Mostly just get on when I'm at work and there's nothing to do. Gotta love getting paid to debate comic characters!

But seriously. Beast has the skill and ability to land the necessary shots on X to KO her.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

But seriously. Beast has the skill and ability to land the necessary shots on X to KO her.



so lemme get this straight by turning cis off, all of a sudden beast is capable of taking on someone who outclasses him in every department save strength?

Beast spent alot of his time.....(months and years on end) achieving scientific achievements and the cure to the Legacy Virus, most of the time I saw Beast in Uncanny Xmen he was in a lab all depressed and noble because he couldn't get laid.

X23 spent constant years inside a training cell turning her into a fighter on par with Logan but lacking.

Beast slammed Logan in Astonishing Xmen. But not long term.

In a true Death/KO fight between X23 and Hank I still say Hank.

Regardless of X23's upbringing Hank has seen it all, especially as an official Avengers member. Though he seems aged in the new Secret Avengers series.

This alone may give X23 an advantage.

Originally posted by the ninjak
This alone may give X23 an advantage.

For all the skills beast might have, he certainly doesn't outclass Laura in terms of fighting skill

his advantages might give him some clean shots on her, but nothing that is going to exceed some of the beatings she took in X-Force (letting Wolfebane tare into her and not fighting back, being fine after, for instance).

and even if he does have that kind of damage output, X is a willing and nonremorseful killer. She really only needs to tag him once or twice to take Hank down permanently, and for whatever skills beast is superior to her in, he doesn't outclass her so much that she wont score a hit.

This is nearly analogous to spider-man vs wolverine, imho. X's lethality and skill just make her landing one good clean strike on beast too likely of a possibility, and she should be able to do it before he can do enough damage to KO her.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Beast spent alot of his time.....(months and years on end) achieving scientific achievements and the cure to the Legacy Virus, most of the time I saw Beast in Uncanny Xmen he was in a lab all depressed and noble because he couldn't get laid.

X23 spent constant years inside a training cell turning her into a fighter on par with Logan but lacking.

Beast slammed Logan in Astonishing Xmen. But not long term.

In a true Death/KO fight between X23 and Hank I still say Hank.

Regardless of X23's upbringing Hank has seen it all, especially as an official Avengers member. Though he seems aged in the new Secret Avengers series.

This alone may give X23 an advantage.



lol....this entire post is wrong..........so beast without cis can defeat logan sans adamantium?...or if thats still too much non cis beast beat deadpool?

Originally posted by inimalist
For all the skills beast might have, he certainly doesn't outclass Laura in terms of fighting skill

his advantages might give him some clean shots on her, but nothing that is going to exceed some of the beatings she took in X-Force (letting Wolfebane tare into her and not fighting back, being fine after, for instance).

and even if he does have that kind of damage output, X is a willing and nonremorseful killer. She really only needs to tag him once or twice to take Hank down permanently, and for whatever skills beast is superior to her in, he doesn't outclass her so much that she wont score a hit.

This is nearly analogous to spider-man vs wolverine, imho. X's lethality and skill just make her landing one good clean strike on beast too likely of a possibility, and she should be able to do it before he can do enough damage to KO her.

Wolfsbane is a SLASHER who rips into her opponents to gain bleedout wins Hank creates powerful Blunt strikes which push his opponents reeling into a direction against a wall.

Hank can perfectly twist his feet to smack a highend agility fighter through the head or stomach.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
lol....this entire post is wrong..........so beast without cis can defeat logan sans adamantium?...or if thats still too much non cis beast beat deadpool?

Deadpool is a teleporter with feats. Way too cool for Hank, plus guns. But with Hanks history with Logan I never could see why Hank couldn't just grab X23 by the wrists after a strike to the head or body and just bend her arms behind her back and squeeze.

People forget that Beast is an original Xman and can if he wished take on Logan in a stalemate fight. Stalemate meaning jumping around and sticking out of a fighter like Logan's influence waiting for an opening.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Wolfsbane is a SLASHER who rips into her opponents to gain bleedout wins.

Hank can perfectly twist his feet to smack a highend agility fighter through the head or stomach.

through?

that doesn't sound like something Beast is known to do(?)

Originally posted by the ninjak
Wolfsbane is a SLASHER who rips into her opponents to gain bleedout wins Hank creates powerful Blunt strikes which push his opponents reeling into a direction against a wall.

Hank can perfectly twist his feet to smack a highend agility fighter through the head or stomach.



Deadpool is a teleporter with feats. Way too cool for Hank. But with Hanks history with Logan I never could see why Hank couldn't just grab X23 by the wrists after a strike to the head or body and just bend her arms behind her back and squeeze.
because then he will take a clawed foot though the head an die.........

After getting smashed in the head or stomach like he did to Logan did in Astonishing.

From behind? She hasn't got blades in her heels.

Legs applied behind the upper back, arms bent backwards, tendons tearing apart?
This is an CISless fight I'm invisioning by the way here.

Laura can't use her senses/top tier fighting ability to attack behind her?

a single clean class 10 lion bite could maim or finish her.

Originally posted by 753
a single clean class 10 lion bite could maim or finish her.

errr, less sarcastic: she survived an identical attack from wolfsbane while not fighting back with no signs of being worse for wear

EDIT2: also, it would be instantly fatal for beast to bring his face that close to laura for long enough for him to bite down.

Originally posted by the ninjak
From behind? She hasn't got blades in her heels.

Legs applied behind the upper back, arms bent backwards, tendons tearing apart?
She can attack behind her as well............




Also how do you assume beast accomplishes this? You do realize he need a signifcant speed advantage to accomplish what your pretending he can. In fact what your suggesting is nothing more then wishful thinking on your part. He holds no speed advantage, so I find it hard to believe he pulling anything remotely close to what your suggesting the majority or even once.

Originally posted by 753
a single clean class 10 lion bite could maim or finish her.
Except for the fact he not class 10 or even close to it.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Except for the fact he not class 10 or even close to it. yeah, he is

Originally posted by inimalist
errr, less sarcastic: she survived an identical attack from wolfsbane while not fighting back with no signs of being worse for wear

EDIT2: also, it would be instantly fatal for beast to bring his face that close to laura for long enough for him to bite down. dont recall wolsbane biting ehr, just slashing away and she was berserk, so she didnt bother confirming a kill, just flipped out on her. besides, thing is much stronger than wb.

Originally posted by 753
yeah, he is
No he not. I love to see you prove this. Because I have most all his apreances and I assure you he not, unless he been pulling some crazy lifting feats from secret avengers I am unware of which I doubt.

Originally posted by 753
besides, thing is much stronger than wb.
Thing is, beast not so much.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
No he not. I love to see you prove this. throwing cars 30 meters ahead. why are you so reluctant to accept it takes class 10 strengh to do this?

If Beast isn't stronger than Wolfsbane then consider my Merry Marvel Marching Band membership revoked.

Originally posted by 753
throwing cars 30 meters ahead. why are you so reluctant it takes class 10 strengh to do this?
He through it only a couple feat in front of him not 30 meters or close to that. Becuase it takes at most 4 tons to accomplish. Average car only weights 4,00 pounds, that not even 2 tons. That is beast best strength feat by far. His other arent even remotely close to that level.


Nothing about being reluctant. It about looking at the facts. He has one extremely high showing which has never been able to replicated mind you by beast or anything really remotely on that level before or since. That in it self would indicate thats far from his average strength level, and then to top it off it not even a 5 ton feat but you think it unreasonable for me to question your placement of beast as a 10 tonner

Originally posted by the ninjak
If Beast isn't stronger than Wolfsbane then consider my Merry Marvel Marching Band membership revoked.
never said that.

Originally posted by 753
dont recall wolsbane biting ehr, just slashing away and she was berserk, so she didnt bother confirming a kill, just flipped out on her. besides, thing is much stronger than wb.

its the first thing she does. X puts down her claws and wb moves in and bites her on the collar bone, almost sensually EDIT: iirc, I'm not looking at it atm

well, sure, she doesn't confirm the kill, but I'm really only trying to show that a single blow or two from beast isn't going to decide this fight.

also, strength really isn't helping the "bite strategy". The type of bite you are talking about is a held, crushing, locked jaw bit, not a little nip that Beast might (MIGHT) be able to get on her. If his head is close enough to her body for long enough for him to bite like that, he is going to lose it.

Originally posted by inimalist
also, strength really isn't helping the "bite strategy". The type of bite you are talking about is a held, crushing, locked jaw bit, not a little nip that Beast might (MIGHT) be able to get on her. If his head is close enough to her body for long enough for him to bite like that, he is going to lose it.

True a SLASH or a BITE is nothing compared to a punishing blunt strike to the head or stomach.

Simple truth is X23 can't touch Hank. If Hank doesn't want her to. He smashed Logan into a roof. And Logan could do nothing upon landing but say "You Beast!".

But Dum Dum I did give X23 the end fight due to Beast's recent form.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Simple truth is X23 can't touch Hank. If Hank doesn't want her to. He smashed Logan into a roof. And Logan could do nothing upon landing but say "You Beast!".

wait... by this logic you don't think logan could tag beast either.... ?

Originally posted by the ninjak
Simple truth is X23 can't touch Hank. If Hank doesn't want her to.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldgkfnov8N1qcwsd8o1_400.gif

Originally posted by the ninjak

Simple truth is X23 can't touch Hank. If Hank doesn't want her to.
were do you get your information? Clearly not comics becuase this is simply not true.

Alas, if such a struggle did ever come to pass...then I fear Dr. McCoy's death is nigh.

Originally posted by the ninjak
True a SLASH or a BITE is nothing compared to a punishing blunt strike to the head or stomach.
This is untrue. For healers, slashing is much worse, then blunt trauma. Because unlike with blunt trauma, the healer need to replenish what has been lost (blood), while with blunt force trauma, they only need to repair whats broken which reacquires less energy.




Originally posted by the ninjak
He smashed Logan into a roof. And Logan could do nothing upon landing but say "You Beast!".
He was mocking beast.........


and he was trying to get him out of a depression......when wolverine fought beast for real he ended him in a single pannel.......

My original post gave X23 the fight.

If you guys can give the scans of Logan easily defeating Hank in a later issue than Astonishing then I'm happy.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
This is untrue. For healers, slashing is much worse, then blunt trauma. Because unlike with blunt trauma, the healer need to replenish what has been lost (blood), while with blunt force trauma, they only need to repair whats broken which reacquires less energy.


I'm not so sure about it. Sure, you lose some blood, but at the same time a lot more area is damaged, a slash is a simpler wound.

I would think a slash would heal faster, but requires a bit more energy, while a smash would heal slower, but when it is healed there's less lasting effect.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm not so sure about it. Sure, you lose some blood, but at the same time a lot more area is damaged, a slash is a simpler wound.

I would think a slash would heal faster, but requires a bit more energy, while a smash would heal slower, but when it is healed there's less lasting effect.
Bleeding out is the best way to deal with wolverine like healers. There a reason why all of his rouges pretty much carry bladed weapons. Blunt force is not a good way to try and bring someone like wolverine or x down unless they posses vast superhuman strength which beast does not.


That never seems to be the case at all. Slashing is more damaging becuase of the blood loss. Blunt force is far less dangerous to a healer then piercing damage. especially when the blunt force is coming from someone with beast punching power.

Originally posted by the ninjak
My original post gave X23 the fight.

If you guys can give the scans of Logan easily defeating Hank in a later issue than Astonishing then I'm happy.
He did so in enemy of the state in a single pannel.





I honestly dont care if you agree or not, Your arguements have been ignorant to sya the least.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Simple truth is X23 can't touch Hank. If Hank doesn't want her to.
If Hank tried to run away, I agree that X probably wouldn't catch him; however, he isn't going untouched in a close combat scenario.

He'd dodge some hits without a doubt, but saying he'd avoid everything is just downplaying Laura.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Bleeding out is the best way to deal with wolverine like healers. There a reason why all of his rouges pretty much carry bladed weapons. Blunt force is not a good way to try and bring someone like wolverine or x down unless they posses vast superhuman strength which beast does not.


That never seems to be the case at all. Slashing is more damaging becuase of the blood loss. Blunt force is far less dangerous to a healer then piercing damage. especially when the blunt force is coming from someone with beast punching power.

Surely that differs between X-23 and Logan though?

Not with Beast, but say someone like Spiderman, his punches to Logan do limited damage b/c of Wolvie's skeleton, but to Laura Spidy punches could potentially break bones with every hit (I guess, not holding back Spidey or someone else in his strength bracket), and the extra tissue/organ damage caused by broken bones could be far more of a hinderence than a slash (although depends on the slash I guess)

Anyway, X-23 ftw in both scenarios

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Not with Beast, but say someone like Spiderman, his punches to Logan do limited damage b/c of Wolvie's skeleton, but to Laura Spidy punches could potentially break bones with every hit (I guess, not holding back Spidey or someone else in his strength bracket), and the extra tissue/organ damage caused by broken bones could be far more of a hinderence than a slash (although depends on the slash I guess)

the difference for me is that for Spider-man, his str, speed, agility, skills and precog make it reasonable to think he might dmg Laura enough for the KO before she got a killshot. I don't see that as the case for beast

beast gets wrecked by spiderman in all of those categories though

Originally posted by inimalist
the difference for me is that for Spider-man, his str, speed, agility, skills and precog make it reasonable to think he might dmg Laura enough for the KO before she got a killshot. I don't see that as the case for beast

beast gets wrecked by spiderman in all of those categories though

I agree, plus the fact that Spiderman is a much better h2h combatant than Beast, seeing as he's basically always involved in h2h fights whereas Beast hasn't really been a fighter in X books for a few years.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
I agree, plus the fact that Spiderman is a much better h2h combatant than Beast, seeing as he's basically always involved in h2h fights whereas Beast hasn't really been a fighter in X books for a few years.

see, it fits his character really well though

Beast was not only always smart, but of all the X-Men, he was the most diplomatic, the most energetic to work with humanity for the betterment of both humans and mutants alike. I really like that part of him, and I would way rather him stay as a less fight, more "peacemaker" type of position

but ya, in terms of forum vs, he doesn't deserve to be put up against top tier fighters, his powers really dont help him much

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Surely that differs between X-23 and Logan though?

Not with Beast, but say someone like Spiderman, his punches to Logan do limited damage b/c of Wolvie's skeleton, but to Laura Spidy punches could potentially break bones with every hit (I guess, not holding back Spidey or someone else in his strength bracket), and the extra tissue/organ damage caused by broken bones could be far more of a hinderence than a slash (although depends on the slash I guess)

Anyway, X-23 ftw in both scenarios
That is very true. Yea beast is not strong enough but some like spidy could do some real damage.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I honestly dont care if you agree or not, Your arguements have been ignorant to sya the least.

Someone hasn't had there coffee.

Originally posted by Badabing
Warned for arguing with a mod. And not knowing when I posted or what I was thinking.

Anyone else?




Shooot heerrrrr!!!