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Wanted to get in early for this:

http://www.viewsbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/captain-america-the-first-avenger-wallpaper-1.jpg
Captain America ('The 1st Avenger' 2011)


is placed in a situation where to save America, he has to fight Wolverine, in the middle of Time Square to Avoid Galactus destroying earth.

http://www.shockya.com/news/wp-content/uploads/hugh_jackman_wolverine.jpg



No outside help.

Can Wolverine's Claws break the Cap's defences?
Can Rogers keep Wolverine at range/repell admantium attacks and ruin Logan's skeleton's ass?

Wolverine...everytime

So the Admantium pwns the shield?

lol a Captain America thread already?

jX-dpQAginE

All we have right now is a 30-second TV spot to judge from. A full length trailer hasn't even come out, still waiting impatiently for that.

But from the looks of it, his shield will be able to counter Wolverine's claws. And if Super Soldier Blonsky from the 2008 Hulk film is a sign of things to come for Captain America's feats, then I say he can win this, especially if we're talking movie Wolverine here.

But I shall reserve final judgment for after The First Avenger comes out.

Captain Caveman would win.

Logan destroys him

going by the teaser trailer the shield should be able to absorb any and all blows from Logan


however willl wait until i see Cap's movie

Jesus christ, cant even wait for the damn movie to come out.

Wait an pee..see.

The shield is better than wolvie's adamantium, in the comics, because it is adamantium and vibranium.

Depends on who is faster. The movie wolverine was pretty damn slow compared to his VERY agile comic book counterpart.


Basically, it boils down to this:

Peak human, in every aspect, versus superhuman.

Superhuman in strength, endurance, agility, sight, hearing, taste.


Seems like a no-brainer, to me.

Since wolverine canNOT be killed, he wins via endurance.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Since wolverine canNOT be killed.

Wrong.


(Thats how you like it right? )

Originally posted by chomperx9
Jesus christ, cant even wait for the damn movie to come out.

Thats right: I couldn't...

Originally posted by Placidity
Wrong.


(Thats how you like it right? )

It's an ellipses:


"Since Wolverine cannot be killed due to the thread conditions and the fighter he is up against."

This runs parallel to other posts I've made that read similar to: "How are the X supposed to kill Wolverine? Simple: they cannot kill him." So I'm not saving face. Wolverine literally cannot be killed...as far as the thread is concerned.


From what we've seen, Wolverine cannot be killed by anything short of a catastrophic event that vastly eclipses Dark Phoenix' rape.

I'm still going with Wolverine, he's not fast an agile like he is in the comics but I still think he could take cap either way

Too early but Logan would shit stomp.

Originally posted by dadudemon

From what we've seen, Wolverine cannot be killed by anything short of a catastrophic event that vastly eclipses Dark Phoenix' rape.

Ok figured you would say that lol. But this (above) too isn't right. DP can obliterate Wolverine easily if she wanted to. And there are many other ways you could kill him, if you thought about it for awhile. One sure and proven way is the final treatment Lady Deathstrike received, Wolvie would succumb to the same fate.

Actually Lady D was gonna make a come back but with the change of directors that never came to be. Plus she did nearly kill him so wolverine can be killed yes. DP held back because she loved Wolverine, she let him kill her. But she still dished out a lot of punishment that I doubt even cap could take or anyone else apart from maybe sabretooth or Deathstrike.

lol funny how the characters with great action sequences that were supposed to return... didn't

toad,lady deathstrike, nightcrawler

nightcrawler and toad were actually supposed to fight...what a disapointment

They did a good job at CGI'ing a scrawny body onto Evan's face.

Originally posted by Placidity
Ok figured you would say that lol. But this (above) too isn't right. DP can obliterate Wolverine easily if she wanted to. And there are many other ways you could kill him, if you thought about it for awhile. One sure and proven way is the final treatment Lady Deathstrike received, Wolvie would succumb to the same fate.

No, DP cannot do that to Wolverine, in the movies.

Even a bullet through his brain did not work: regen fixed that. He lost the memories associated with all of those damaged neurons, though...but they were retrievable, slightly, later in the future.

As stated in the films, the only way to get through the adamantium is with adamantium.

DP did not have another way. A bubble in his brain? It would fail.

Captain America does not have access to liquid adamantium, either. That's not part of the OP. Additionally, that very well may have been the absolute last bit of liquid adamantium on the entire planet (the Captain's shield came before Wolverine.)

You could try immersing him in liquid metal...that may burn off enough of his flash.

But how is Captain going to do that to a person that is stronger and faster (they'll probably make Caps stronger/faster in the movie instead of sticking to peak human, though, so I may have to change that.)


So how do you propose the Captain kill Wolverine? There's no way the Captain can kill James...Wolverine cannot be killed.

Originally posted by steverules_2
Actually Lady D was gonna make a come back but with the change of directors that never came to be. Plus she did nearly kill him so wolverine can be killed yes. DP held back because she loved Wolverine, she let him kill her. But she still dished out a lot of punishment that I doubt even cap could take or anyone else apart from maybe sabretooth or Deathstrike.

No, DP coudl not kill wolverine unless we see evidence of Wolvies HF getting overtaxed in the films. It was adamantium skeleton with his HF that saved him from turning into dust.


We couldn't have Wolvies clost turning to dust because that would make him naked. Your guys are giving DP too much credit: she could not kill Logan.

im surprised this is still open. Technically captain america shouldnt count as a movie character since the movie has not been released yet. what if they cancel it tomorrow ?

Originally posted by chomperx9
im surprised this is still open. Technically captain america shouldnt count as a movie character since the movie has not been released yet. what if they cancel it tomorrow ?

Apparantly, he made a cameo in a recent Marvel movie, making him legit...we just don't have any tangible feats beyond the trailor.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, DP coudl not kill wolverine unless we see evidence of Wolvies HF getting overtaxed in the films. It was adamantium skeleton with his HF that saved him from turning into dust.


We couldn't have Wolvies clost turning to dust because that would make him naked. Your guys are giving DP too much credit: she could not kill Logan.

Look at the fight dude, she was killing me and kicking his ass...he had to stick an adamantium gun into her to win. I'm a huge wolverine fan, but I'll admit when he's getting his ass whooped and getting killed and he certainly was getting that against DS.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Apparantly, he made a cameo in a recent Marvel movie, making him legit...we just don't have any tangible feats beyond the trailor.

And what movie would that be?

Originally posted by Kazenji
And what movie would that be?

http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/captain-america-officially-found-in-the-incredible-hulk/


Pewpy bawlz

Originally posted by steverules_2
Look at the fight dude, she was killing me and kicking his ass...he had to stick an adamantium gun into her to win. I'm a huge wolverine fan, but I'll admit when he's getting his ass whooped and getting killed and he certainly was getting that against DS.

Huh?

I'm not really seeing anything from those pictures

Originally posted by Kazenji
I'm not really seeing anything from those pictures

It's common knowledge, bro. Why don't you use google to find a source other than the very first source I found?




Also, this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103923/

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, DP cannot do that to Wolverine, in the movies.


Actually, she could easily. More on that later.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Even a bullet through his brain did not work: regen fixed that. He lost the memories associated with all of those damaged neurons, though...but they were retrievable, slightly, later in the future.

As stated in the films, the only way to get through the adamantium is with adamantium.


I don't think it was ever stated that "only way to get through the adamantium is with adamantium." But no one is arguing that anyway.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Captain America does not have access to liquid adamantium, either. That's not part of the OP. Additionally, that very well may have been the absolute last bit of liquid adamantium on the entire planet (the Captain's shield came before Wolverine.)

You could try immersing him in liquid metal...that may burn off enough of his flash.

But how is Captain going to do that to a person that is stronger and faster (they'll probably make Caps stronger/faster in the movie instead of sticking to peak human, though, so I may have to change that.)


So how do you propose the Captain kill Wolverine? There's no way the Captain can kill James...Wolverine cannot be killed.

What? I'm not even talking about cap, you said:

Originally posted by dadudemon

From what we've seen, Wolverine cannot be killed by anything short of a catastrophic event that vastly eclipses Dark Phoenix' rape.

I said that was wrong. For two reasons:

1. DP can kill Wolverine.

2. Wolverine CAN "be killed by short of a catastrophic event that vastly eclipses Dark Phoenix' rape", and I mentioned what happened to Lady Deathstrike as an example to do this.

At no point am I discussing Cap, just referencing your claims about Wolverine.

Now, onto DP vs Wolverine, I've explained this more times than I care to, so I'm just gonna quote myself:


Summary: DP did not unleash full powers on Wolvie in X3, and she could kill him easily if she wanted to.

Originally posted by Placidity
Actually, she could easily. More on that later.



I don't think it was ever stated that "only way to get through the adamantium is with adamantium." But no one is arguing that anyway.



What? I'm not even talking about cap, you said:



I said that was wrong. For two reasons:

1. DP can kill Wolverine.

2. Wolverine CAN "be killed by short of a catastrophic event that vastly eclipses Dark Phoenix' rape", and I mentioned what happened to Lady Deathstrike as an example to do this.

At no point am I discussing Cap, just referencing your claims about Wolverine.

Now, onto DP vs Wolverine, I've explained this more times than I care to, so I'm just gonna quote myself:


Summary: DP did not unleash full powers on Wolvie in X3, and she could kill him easily if she wanted to.

I covered this a long time ago a different thread.

You really wasted your time typing that up because I'm not reading it, not out of spite, but because I think the discussion is a giant waste of time.


IF DP could have killed him and was holding back, explain the very direct relationship between the "plasma" cloudy stuff and the destruction of it touching something? Then explain why Logan did not disintegrate despite bathing in that plasma junk? Any explanation other than PIS or Logan powered through it, is baseless.

Claiming she was holding back does not fit, in the slightest, the visual given to us on the screen. There is also no "official" release or story on it explaining that she was holding back: by all visual counts, she was not holding back.


Reading into it by giving attributes that do not exist, is baseless. Stick with what was on screen: Logan withstood the plasma, full-blast, from DP.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's common knowledge, bro. Why don't you use google to find a source other than the very first source I found?




Also, this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103923/

But if thats all we have for a picture of Capt which to me looks like a smudge can't really see a thing

its like these people getting all reeved up over images of jesus in a piece of toast.

Originally posted by Kazenji
But if thats all we have for a picture of Capt which to me looks like a smudge can't really see a thing

its like these people getting all reeved up over images of jesus in a piece of toast.

I agree. It all started with the director blowing things out of proportion by saying that Hulk meets the Captain...then deletes it from the movie because it the scene was supposedly too dark for pg-13, and then gives us crap for a cameo.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Reading into it by giving attributes that do not exist, is baseless. Stick with what was on screen: Logan withstood the plasma, full-blast, from DP.

That is false.

Originally posted by Placidity
That is false.

You continue baselessly believing one way and I'll believe the most direct reading.


Unless of course you can provide some sort of official backing...like...say, the script writer's or director's commentary that directly contradicts what was seen on screen. I'll believe you, then.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You continue baselessly believing one way and I'll believe the most direct reading.


Unless of course you can provide some sort of official backing...like...say, the script writer's or director's commentary that directly contradicts what was seen on screen. I'll believe you, then.

Baseless?

You've said you refused to read my argument. You have no right to say it is baseless.

Originally posted by Placidity
Baseless?

You've said you refused to read my argument. You have no right to say it is baseless.

I am convincible and I've outlined how.

And reading your argument is completely unnecessary as it goes directly against what was seen onscreen and constitutes a gigantic waste of time. It's fun to speculate though, and that's really the fun of films. However, baselessness or weak conclusions are not tolerated unless you qualify it as such.


Here, watch this: the commentary on the DVD does not support your claim. Nothing was said of her holding back.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I am convincible and I've outlined how.

And reading your argument is completely unnecessary as it goes directly against what was seen onscreen and constitutes a gigantic waste of time. It's fun to speculate though, and that's really the fun of films. However, baselessness or weak conclusions are not tolerated unless you qualify it as such.


Here, watch this: the commentary on the DVD does not support your claim. Nothing was said of her holding back.

How can you say its baseless or weak if you haven't even read it. That's ridiculous to be honest.

Commentary or other evidence is not necessary. Nowhere is it stated she used her full powers on him, it is open to interpretation and its quite clear she did NOT if you paid attention to the movie.

I could argue like you too - do you have any evidence she used her full powers on Wolverine? Does it say so in the commentary?

Clearly she didn't. Logan wouldn't be able to move half an inch if she didn't allow it.

Basically I have evidence for what I'm saying, you don't and you won't hear mine either.

Hey I could do the, "well I'm not gonna read your reply, but I will say that its wrong" too.

Originally posted by Placidity
How can you say its baseless or weak if you haven't even read it. That's ridiculous to be honest.

Commentary or other evidence is not necessary. Nowhere is it stated she used her full powers on him, it is open to interpretation and its quite clear she did NOT if you paid attention to the movie.

I could argue like you too - do you have any evidence she used her full powers on Wolverine? Does it say so in the commentary?

Clearly she didn't. Logan wouldn't be able to move half an inch if she didn't allow it.

Basically I have evidence for what I'm saying, you don't and you won't hear mine either.

Hey I could do the, "well I'm not gonna read your reply, but I will say that its wrong" too.

K.

I didn't read any evidence, only baseless and contradictory claims. When I make a baseless claim, I make sure and try to clarify that it is baseless to prevent people from assuming that I'm trying to pass off my personal interpretations as fact. I do not fault you for it, but don't try to pass that stuff off as fact when it's clearly not. In fact, your claim is false based on screen feats. You need to back it up with something more tangible than a directly contradicted claim.

Originally posted by dadudemon
K.

I didn't read any evidence, only baseless and contradictory claims. When I make a baseless claim, I make sure and try to clarify that it is baseless to prevent people from assuming that I'm trying to pass off my personal interpretations as fact. I do not fault you for it, but don't try to pass that stuff off as fact when it's clearly not. In fact, your claim is false based on screen feats. You need to back it up with something more tangible than a directly contradicted claim.

So have you read it?

Ok, wheres your evidence that she was using her full powers on him? Otherwise, your just passing on baseless claims...

Originally posted by Placidity
So have you read it?

Ok, wheres your evidence that she was using her full powers on him? Otherwise, your just passing on baseless claims...

Where's your evidence that's she's holding back when all indications is she's lettin' 'er rip.


Do you have ANY evidence from any point that indicates she can go "more powerful" than that? Of course you don't...unless you'd like to commit the holy grail of vs. forum fallacies: the no limit fallacy.

Edit - and, no, I didn't read it. lol. I've hardly read anything from your posts. I just read the first and last sentences of your posts because, unlike 99% of the internet population, you write really well.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Do you have ANY evidence from any point that indicates she can go "more powerful" than that?

Yes I do. But you wouldn't know about it, would you?

This is borderline trolling to be frank.

Either:

1. say you don't care about any evidence, you will believe what you want to believe (which is what you've effectively done so far).


OR


2. rebut my points


OR


3. Prove that she was going full power.

Unless you comply with at least one of those options, theres no more discussion to be had (defaulting to option 1).

Originally posted by Placidity
Yes I do. But you wouldn't know about it, would you?

This is borderline trolling to be frank.

Either:

1. say you don't care about any evidence, you will believe what you want to believe (which is what you've effectively done so far).


OR


2. rebut my points


OR


3. Prove that she was going full power.

Unless you comply with at least one of those options, theres no more discussion to be had (defaulting to option 1).

If by borderline trolling you mean you're trolling me because you keep pestering me to believe something false and are trying to pass it off as fact, then, yes, you're skirting on the edge of trolling. I am not required to read your posts especially if they have no substance. I should not and will not entertain a meaningless discussion.

So you can do one of 3 things:


1. Prove that she was holding back with either commentary from one in authority over the films (director, writer)

2. Admit you were wrong and stop wasting time.

3. Indicate that it is something you WISHED the film had done and chose to believe in a false reality.


You have yet to provide tangible evidence: only your baseless claims.


And, to your "holding back" claim, as fact, she was not. She actually could not STOP and was uncontrolled at that point. I know you saw the movie so I know you know that that was one reason Xavier unethically pwned her mind: to prevent her from going on an uncontrollable rampage.


In other words, you're wrong on all accounts in the most direct way possible.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If by borderline trolling you mean you're trolling me because you keep pestering me to believe something false and are trying to pass it off as fact, then, yes, you're skirting on the edge of trolling. I am not required to read your posts especially if they have no substance. I should not and will not entertain a meaningless discussion.


Stop trolling.

You're saying something is false without even reading it.

Nice.

Originally posted by dadudemon

1. Prove that she was holding back with either commentary from one in authority over the films (director, writer)


Even if I did, how would you know if you keep maintaining that you won't read my points? Trolling

Originally posted by dadudemon
2. Admit you were wrong and stop wasting time.


No, you admit you're too arrogant to read an argument and then saying its wrong when you haven't read it.

Originally posted by dadudemon

3. Indicate that it is something you WISHED the film had done and chose to believe in a false reality.


Troll more.

Originally posted by dadudemon

You have yet to provide tangible evidence: only your baseless claims.


How would you know about the evidence I have or have not provided if you maintain that you will not read it? Explain that or concede that you're trolling / being a jerk?


Originally posted by dadudemon

And, to your "holding back" claim, as fact, she was not. She actually could not STOP and was uncontrolled at that point. I know you saw the movie so I know you know that that was one reason Xavier unethically pwned her mind: to prevent her from going on an uncontrollable rampage.


Irrelevant.

Originally posted by dadudemon

In other words, you're wrong on all accounts in the most direct way possible.

False.

In any regulated debate you've been demolished. Not addressing the opposition's point while maintaining it is wrong, without any arguments.

Originally posted by Placidity
Stop trolling.


No you.

Originally posted by Placidity
You're saying something is false without even reading it.

Nice.

No, I read it: the fluff is unnecessary. Stop pretending you've got some sort of magical ground breaking points made when you haven't.



Originally posted by Placidity
Even if I did, how would you know if you keep maintaining that you won't read my points? Trolling.

Cause you didn't. Don't create false scenarios and then expect me to argue against an non-existant situation and then call me a troll when you're creating conflict that doesn't exist: a certain banned troll used to do the same thing.


Originally posted by Placidity
No, you admit you're too arrogant to read an argument and then saying its wrong when you haven't read it.

Correction: you're the arrogant one beacuse you've made an unsupported claim and are trying to cram it down my throat. I've done nothing but follow what was seen on screen. Also: "Stop pretending you've got some sort of magical ground breaking points made when you haven't."




Originally posted by Placidity
Troll more.

Because you're making up stuff and I called you on it, I'm trolling? Seems more like you don't like your point being called for what it is: fantasy. Just relax a bit and deal. It's much easier if you admit that it's baseless BEFORE you try to pass off the argument as fact. I do not do it 100% of the time, but I make sure to preface my baseless assumptions as fact before I present them to avoid confusion just like this.

Also, get off your pedatsool of "witch-hunting" when you're clearly trolling me.


Originally posted by Placidity
How would you know about the evidence I have or have not provided if you maintain that you will not read it? Explain that or concede that you're trolling / being a jerk?

Because I've clearly skimmed over your posts and get the content of them without having to read them word for word.
Additionally: "Stop pretending you've got some sort of magical ground breaking points made when you haven't."

Explain that or concede that you're trolling. And, I'm actually serious unlike you who are just throwing it out there to make your points seem like that have substance.



Originally posted by Placidity
Irrelevant.

Awesome logic.



Originally posted by Placidity
False.

True.

Originally posted by Placidity
In any regulated debate you've been demolished. Not addressing the opposition's point while maintaining it is wrong, without any arguments.

In any regulated debate, you'd have been laughed off of the stage because making stuff up and trying to pass it off as fact to win a debate when you're directly contradicted by the premise, is fail.




So now...

Stop trolling me. Seriously, stop it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Stop trolling me. Seriously, stop it.


I'm not convinced and, no, this time, I didn't read anything in your post.

Edit - Decided that since my episode of Naruto is over, I'll actually read your post.

Yep how would you know I'm trolling you when you said you haven't read any of my post.

Same way you would know my evidence is 'baseless', while maintaining you wouldn't read it right?

You defy logic bro, good job.



This was a really low move for you mate. Instead of debating like a proper person, you sink to "no I won't even read your post, but its wrong, you have no evidence, I don't know how I know you have no evidence since I haven't read your points, I'm an omniscient psychic maybe".

I'm done.

LMAO DP could obviously kill wolverine

no HF is withstanding such disintegration
she was clearly asking wolverine to kill her

not to mention a guy with claws killing such a powerful telekentic is ridiculous ...even when she wants to die
which is why x3 sucked bawlz

Originally posted by Placidity
Yep how would you know I'm trolling you when you said you haven't read any of my post.

No, I read it: the fluff is unnecessary. Stop pretending you've got some sort of magical ground breaking points made when you haven't.



Originally posted by Placidity
Same way you would know my evidence is 'baseless', while maintaining you wouldn't read it right?

You defy logic bro, good job..

"Stop pretending you've got some sort of magical ground breaking points made when you haven't."



Originally posted by Placidity
This was a really low move for you mate. Instead of debating like a proper person, you sink to "no I won't even read your post, but its wrong, you have no evidence, I don't know how I know you have no evidence since I haven't read your points, I'm an omniscient psychic maybe".

Nah, it's just that, anything that contradicts what was seen on-screen is automatically wrong and a gigantic....wait, de javu, eh? So you've tried to pass off something that directly contradicts what we see onscreen and then I'm supposed to just "magically" believe you when I know better?

It's like: "How do you KNOW that these magic rocks will not heal you? You can't say they won't if you won't even try them."

Originally posted by Placidity
I'm done.

You should have stopped the moment you tried to pass off a baseless claim. I would have had more respect for your point IF you would have prefaced it as baseless before presenting it.

Originally posted by Placidity
Actually, she could easily. More on that later.



I don't think it was ever stated that "only way to get through the adamantium is with adamantium." But no one is arguing that anyway.

Yeah, that was directly stated and observed in Wolverine's Origins film.



Originally posted by Placidity
2. Wolverine CAN "be killed by short of a catastrophic event that vastly eclipses Dark Phoenix' rape", and I mentioned what happened to Lady Deathstrike as an example to do this.

That's quite a special circumstance, now isn't it?

Considering that there's no "liquid adamantium" around, we need something else. If you want to talk about the, literally, only exception to the catastrophic rule, which does not apply to to this thread, fine, but this is the wrong place for it. What about a massive dose of radiation? That might work...but there's no evidence that it will or will not. We know from the comics that he can resist high-levels of radiation...so we can, but baselessly, say that high radiation probably will not take him down.

Drowning? Maybe? But how is the captain supposed to pull that off? Kee in mind, "Wolverine cannot die" directly relates to THIS thread, not some over-arching statement in all of the universe. Since I explained that already, there's no need to keep going back there, which is why I originally got turned off from entertaining this conversation with you: you clearly had an agenda and it seemed like it was clearly trolling me.

Originally posted by Placidity
At no point am I discussing Cap, just referencing your claims about Wolverine.

k

Originally posted by Placidity
Now, onto DP vs Wolverine, I've explained this more times than I care to, so I'm just gonna quote myself:


Summary: DP did not unleash full powers on Wolvie in X3, and she could kill him easily if she wanted to.

Addressed this already:




Yet, you're going to pretend as though you brought something "new" to the table and expect me to argue against it. I told you that you were actually trolling me.





Easily countered by this, yet you pretended as though you had some sort of "magic" counter when I clearly addressed your post without having actually read it:






Originally posted by dadudemon
I covered this a long time ago a different thread.

IF DP could have killed him and was holding back, explain the very direct relationship between the "plasma" cloudy stuff and the destruction of it touching something? Then explain why Logan did not disintegrate despite bathing in that plasma junk? Any explanation other than PIS or Logan powered through it, is baseless.

Claiming she was holding back does not fit, in the slightest, the visual given to us on the screen. There is also no "official" release or story on it explaining that she was holding back: by all visual counts, she was not holding back.


Reading into it by giving attributes that do not exist, is baseless. Stick with what was on screen: Logan withstood the plasma, full-blast, from DP.




On other words, when I say I do not need to read something, that's because I really do not need to. It's not as though you hadn't made you case prior: you're just repeating yourself. It's not as though I haven't made the same points: I'm just repeating myself.


As for the "knocked back" portion: wolverine is much more dense than those others dudes. That STILL does not explain him not being knocked back, but since when does movie logic fit perfectly with the laws of physics? Why can Wesley Gibson bend bullets when that directly contradicts physics? Why doesn't Logan get blown to dust by the telekenetic plasma that is clearly fully touching him (it does, just not to the same effect as everyone else when they are touched by it...also, the adamantium clearly has a resistance to the plasma)? Why don't his clothes get demolished instantly when he was clearly bathing in plasma?

Oh, right, I addressed that too:

Originally posted by dadudemon
We couldn't have Wolvies clost turning to dust because that would make him naked.

Dude I dont buy that bit......they coulda gotten round that with angle shots closeups above the waist whatever....
(Unless he had a 23 foot admantium wang too) it wouldnt have been hard to have shown us that the energy blasted everything off, yet without turning it into a sequel to boogie nights.

I mean, You never see 'too much' in Fantastic Four, when Alba appears naked, right?*
























*=

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Dude I dont buy that bit......they coulda gotten round that with angle shots closeups above the waist whatever....

Yes, and turned the dramatic scene into "comedy", right? I don't buy the using of "angle shots" to cover up the stupidity of having to make him naked.


Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
(Unless he had a 23 foot admantium wang too) it wouldnt have been hard to have shown us that the energy blasted everything off, yet without turning it into a sequel to boogie nights.

I mean, You never see 'too much' in Fantastic Four, when Alba appears naked, right?*

And that was comedy with "fan-service"...very out of place for the "dramatic" finish.

^ @ sadoka - Yea its pretty obvious it wasn't a full power blast.

Heres something I hadn't mentioned before.

Look at the video of Phoenix vs Xavier.

1aHB-gPpyA0
(sorry embed disabled)

3:20 Xavier starts to experience her disintegration powers, but clearly not full power.

3:41 Clearly you can see he is getting layers peeled off him, the cloudy dust effect surrounds him.

4:37 Phoenix uses her full power on him. He vaporizes instantly, from head to toe, his whole body, not just his chest and parts of his face (like what happened to Logan).

Its quite easy to see Phoenix wasn't using her full power on Wolverine. The difference on screen is as distinctive between Cyclop's narrow beams and his uncontrolled, full power blast. Anyone who believes Logan received an attack that has the rate of disintegration that is of equal power to what happened to Xavier as shown in the video, or what happened to the other mutants is delusional. A comparison of the scenes shows it clearly.


eNjidu0pE8s

More importantly, even after Phoenix launched a few waves of attacks on Logan, his suit was still there. It took a few waves, and at least 30 seconds for her to completely disintegrate the suit? Oops, I think I just completely destroyed that idea. His pants are also on the whole time, but I'll let that one fly, although its already a moot point.

It's also shown on the video, that his whole body is not receiving disintegration, only certain parts of the anterior of his body. Not EVEN CLOSE to full power. We also see his back for a few shots when he is getting the treatment, nothing is happening to it. Heck his hair doesn't even mess up through the whole thing.



Furthermore, as I pointed out before why would Phoenix ask Logan if "would die for them" if she wasn't capable of killing him?

As seen earlier, Wolverine got smashed by DP at the Mansion. He can't move an inch if DP didn't allow it.

Originally posted by Placidity
^ @ sadoka - Yea its pretty obvious it wasn't a full power blast.

Heres something I hadn't mentioned before.

Look at the video of Phoenix vs Xavier.

1aHB-gPpyA0
(sorry embed disabled)

3:20 Xavier starts to experience her disintegration powers, but clearly not full power.

3:41 Clearly you can see he is getting layers peeled off him, the cloudy dust effect surrounds him.

4:37 Phoenix uses her full power on him. He vaporizes instantly, from head to toe, his whole body, not just his chest and parts of his face (like what happened to Logan).

Its quite easy to see Phoenix wasn't using her full power on Wolverine. The difference on screen is as distinctive between Cyclop's narrow beams and his uncontrolled, full power blast. Anyone who believes Logan received an attack that has the rate of disintegration that is of equal power to what happened to Xavier as shown in the video, or what happened to the other mutants is delusional. A comparison of the scenes shows it clearly.


eNjidu0pE8s

More importantly, even after Phoenix launched a few waves of attacks on Logan, his suit was still there. It took a few waves, and at least 30 seconds for her to completely disintegrate the suit? Oops, I think I just completely destroyed that idea. His pants are also on the whole time, but I'll let that one fly, although its already a moot point.

It's also shown on the video, that his whole body is not receiving disintegration, only certain parts of the anterior of his body. Not EVEN CLOSE to full power. We also see his back for a few shots when he is getting the treatment, nothing is happening to it. Heck his hair doesn't even mess up through the whole thing.



Furthermore, as I pointed out before why would Phoenix ask Logan if "would die for them" if she wasn't capable of killing him?

As seen earlier, Wolverine got smashed by DP at the Mansion. He can't move an inch if DP didn't allow it.


Xavier was resisting. She was also straining against Xavier. That was her full power...smaller than in than out in the open.

In your first vid, 1:51, "stay out of my head." He was limiting her the entire time and he gave up, right at the end, because he succeeded in transfering his consciousness to the other body by that point...no reason to "fight" it anymore.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Xavier was resisting. She was also straining against Xavier. That was her full power...smaller than in than out in the open.

In your first vid, 1:51, "stay out of my head." He was limiting her the entire time and he gave up, right at the end, because he succeeded in transfering his consciousness to the other body by that point...no reason to "fight" it anymore.

LOL, Xavier resisting disintegration? Good one.

She wasn't straining.

Clearly not full power.

I like how you're making baseless claims. Oh that sounds familiar.

"Stay out of my head" was Jean Grey. Black Eyes and Ass-kicking was Dark Phoenix. He wasn't doing shit after Phoenix surfaced.

I take it you concede then, given the weak and brief counter-arguments, and how you failed to address the point where Wolverine's suit was still there after a few waves of her attack, which according to you is full power despite it clearly wasn't on-screen?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Huh?

It was around 4:40 am that I wrote that so I dunno I got my ass kicked by lady deathstrike

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, and turned the dramatic scene into "comedy", right? I don't buy the using of "angle shots" to cover up the stupidity of having to make him naked.




And that was comedy with "fan-service"...very out of place for the "dramatic" finish.

Yes they did. I agree.
But was the 1st appearance of the Terminator meant to be comedy?

If we could all put our penises away, it would be nice.

DDM, kindly cease the back and forth with Placidity.

Placidity, same for you, too, please.

Let's all play nice, else I'll make you all kneel on wooden broom sticks. evillaugh

I have a wooden broomstick in my pants


Giggity goo!

LOL i find it funny that DP would levitate professor X and not wolverine

wolverines HF must be able to stop levitation
...
i still didn't see Cap in incredible hulk
i saw iron man
can someone post it

Cap was in a deleted scene during the North Pole, although it's just a blur it's still him

I don't see how HF would prevent levitation, thats not harming him thats just...picking him up

deleted scenes count o.o exactly... there was nothing stopping her from levitating him except... her, thus she was definitely holding back
no if, ands, or buts

Or, that's just not thinking about it.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Or, that's just not thinking about it. thus not thinking about slaughtering him

Or, thinking about doing everything in her power to kill him, and not thinking about just levitating him in the air.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Or, thinking about doing everything in her power to kill him, and not thinking about just levitating him in the air. ????? im saying she could have levitated him and desintagrate him like she did professor X

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
deleted scenes count o.o exactly... there was nothing stopping her from levitating him except... her, thus she was definitely holding back
no if, ands, or buts

Not really no, but he's trapped in ice, all it was is like...a bit of blue and red in some ice...you literally don't really see him. Banner goes to NP, gets angry, hulks out and starts smashing ice and huge chunks go flying, one of which has cap in it.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
????? im saying she could have levitated him and desintagrate him like she did professor X
I'm saying that "she could have" doesn't mean "she could have but chose to not do it."

She didn't levitate everyone, she only levitated Xavier when she turned him into dust

LMAO exactly what are you not getting?
im saying she chose not to immobilize logan and desintagrate his azz...

because if she truly wanted to kill him it would've been that easy

i just totally blew your mind hm?

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
LMAO exactly what are you not getting?
im saying she chose not to immobilize logan and desintagrate his azz...

because if she truly wanted to kill him it would've been that easy

i just totally blew your mind hm? I'm saying she was trying to kill Logan but failed.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I'm saying she was trying to kill Logan but failed.

Clearly you haven't been following the discussion, since you know, I kinda proved that she wasn't trying, at all.

Originally posted by Placidity
Clearly you haven't been following the discussion, since you know, I kinda proved that she wasn't trying, at all. he also apparently can't read

^ Exactly.

DP already bitchslapped his ass to KO back at the Mansion by just using a simple TK push.

Originally posted by Placidity
Clearly you haven't been following the discussion, since you know, I kinda proved that she wasn't trying, at all. Obviously, you haven't been following the discussion, as I already proved why that doesn't mean anything.

Haha. I crush another German in 1v1. Come at me bro.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Obviously, you haven't been following the discussion, as I already proved why that doesn't mean anything.



You proved why what doesn't mean anything? Try to make sense bro. I've provided lots of evidence over the last few pages, a few of them irrefutable, lets see you address them before spouting crap.

Haha. I crush another raging fanboy in 1v1. Come at me bro.

Originally posted by Placidity
You proved why what doesn't mean anything? Try to make sense bro. I've provided lots of evidence over the last few pages, a few of them irrefutable, lets see you address them before spouting crap.

Haha. I crush another raging fanboy in 1v1. Come at me bro. Read the past page or so, brosky. Your defeat is well noted within it's contents. gg

Originally posted by steverules_2
She didn't levitate everyone, she only levitated Xavier when she turned him into dust

Actually, she did.

I can't even be bothered posting a video.

I'm sure you remember Jean Grey levitating Wolverine and Toad in X1. Nightcrawler and the X-jet in X2...so if we apply simple logix... HEY JEAN GREY, LET ALONE DARK PHOENIX CAN LEVITATE PPL EASILY!



But no seriously watch the scene where she goes ape shit, she levitates masses of people. Even in the scene where you said she only levitated Xavier, Wolvie and Storm are stuck on the ceiling, lmao. Wait are you trolling?

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Read the past page or so, brosky. Your defeat is well noted within it's contents. gg

You only started posting on this page, so stop trolling.

Is this your way of avoiding the truth?

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
When you get past the 5th grade, you'll learn what a non-literal statement is. hahaha.

By crushing me 1v1 you mean talking crap?

Good for you dumbass.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Is this your way of avoiding the truth?

Ninja edit can't save you.

Either bring up the debate or stfu.

Look up^^^ I dunno why that's so hard, considering you asked me to do so a few posts again. I mean, I even wrote it in english.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Look up^^^ I dunno why that's so hard, considering you asked me to do so a few posts again. I mean, I even wrote it in english.

How about you quote exactly what you mean, so we can both get down to business. Sounds fair to me.

Okay, in my next post. For the record, are you refreshing the page every 30 seconds to see if I've replied?

Edit- You cheatin muther****er.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Okay, in my next post. For the record, are you refreshing the page every 30 seconds to see if I've replied?

See I knew you were trolling.

Quite frankly I'm running out of patience with your kind.

Come in, talk shit, and leave.

Running from the 'debate', guess you concede then?

Good idea, you best save face.

I said I was going to do so in my next post. But yeah, that's it, I "concede". The massive logic and debating prowess you've displayed in the past four posts has made me aware of my ineptitude. Let me now vacate myself from this forum with my head hung low, vanquished by your superiority.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I said I was going to do so in my next post. But yeah, that's it, I "concede". The massive logic and debating prowess you've displayed in the past four posts has made me aware of my ineptitude. Let me now vacate myself from this forum with my head hung low, vanquished by your superiority.

Good boy.

Pretty sure it wasn't my past four posts, you probably tried to reply but finally read the part where I silenced DDM for good and realized this was a debate you couldn't win.

Although you are right in admitting my superiority, its not what won me the debate, its the facts shown in the movie. Clear and simple.

Good try anyway, sarcastic cover needs some work though.

Stay on topic, sir!

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Stay on topic, sir!

There is no on-topic...

Ok fine, Wolverine wins

Wolverine always wins. Only person Logan probably couldn't beat is Harry Potter.

Originally posted by Placidity
Actually, she did.

I can't even be bothered posting a video.

I'm sure you remember Jean Grey levitating Wolverine and Toad in X1. Nightcrawler and the X-jet in X2...so if we apply simple logix... HEY JEAN GREY, LET ALONE DARK PHOENIX CAN LEVITATE PPL EASILY!



But no seriously watch the scene where she goes ape shit, she levitates masses of people. Even in the scene where you said she only levitated Xavier, Wolvie and Storm are stuck on the ceiling, lmao. Wait are you trolling?

*sigh* She didn't levitate everyone she turned to dust, thats what I was talking about

If I was trolling pretty sure I'd have gotten a warning or something by now glare Somehow this Wolverine vs Cap thread has suddenly become a discussion on DP/Wolverine

If you disagree with Placidity you are trolling. That's how things work around here, noob.

But it's all irrelevant, apparently, since we all agree Logan would **** up Captain America any day of the week. Thread serves no purpose.

Originally posted by steverules_2
*sigh* She didn't levitate everyone she turned to dust, thats what I was talking about


Okay.

So whats your point that she didn't levitate everyone that she disintegrated?

Or were you just stating a random fact. Cuz I was owning noobs, and I thought you wanted some, thats why I assumed you meant something else. My bad.

And who didn't she levitate that was turned to crap? It seemed that she did.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
If you disagree with Placidity you are trolling.


Depends how you disagree really. Want to disagree yet not counter my points or provide evidence for yourself then yea, thats trolling, or more commonly known now as 'pulling a DDM'.

Well, trolling is kind of like first degree murder, it requires intent. If there's no intent there's no troll. Some people just have personalities that naturally piss other people off.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Well, trolling is kind of like first degree murder, it requires intent. If there's no intent there's no troll. Some people just have personalities that naturally piss other people off.

Yes thats true, but who cares. They may as well be trolling.

The only alternative is to call them a moron, and you may get warnings for that so just call them a troll.

In many cases though, its a hybrid. They start out with a stupid opinion/position without intention to troll, but once they get proven wrong, unable to face defeat they continue with their bullshit, hence they become a troll from that point forth.

Originally posted by Placidity
Okay.

So whats your point that she didn't levitate everyone that she disintegrated?

Or were you just stating a random fact. Cuz I was owning noobs, and I thought you wanted some, thats why I assumed you meant something else. My bad.

And who didn't she levitate that was turned to crap? It seemed that she did.

The only one I remember her levitating and turning to dust was Xavier, the others I remember her just....turning to dust, pretty sure some of Mags team were running and then got turned to dust...I haven't seen the movie for....4 years I think, so maybe she did, I don't seem to recall it happening though

I was just stating that she didn't levitate everyone that she turned to dust, thats what I thought was being said anyway

I have a feeling the Cap movie is gonna nerf/gimp his shield.

Originally posted by Scythe
I have a feeling the Cap movie is gonna nerf/gimp his shield.

More than likely I think, since Comics Cap can do all sorts of shit with his shield. Pretty much throw it anywhere, it will bounce off 10 enemy targets and return to him.

You know if they show Cap using the shield to cut something off, he may have an argument since according to Origins, his shield should be able to cut through Wolverine. Thats if you wanted to make a case for Cap and ignore how Origins is full of crap.

I think something like this is appropriate to compensate for the Wolverine fapping.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s50/ecq400/wolverine-deer.jpg

nobody ever said that
even if she were limited to one levitating desintagration... which i HIGHLY doubt

she could have easily done this to wolverine but didn't want to

How do you know she didn't want to?

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
How do you know she didn't want to? errm... ive only said why a dozen times... 1. she didn't immobilize him (Levitate him far out of his claws reach)
2. she showed she could vaporize a person instantly but didn't vaporize wolverine as she could have easily
3. she held a phucking conversation with the guy

she clearly could have killed wolverine... but just didn't

Placidity: I apologize for being douchy about my opinion. I could have been nicer about it, but I had just gotten with that argument a couple of weeks back, with another, and really did not want to go through it again. I ended up doing it, anyway, after too many "back and forths" between you and I.




That said, here's my opinion on the events in X-3:

I think that saying Jean was holding back not to hurt Logan so he could kill her misses the very essence and importance of that scene. That scene was to show that Xavier was right: she will destroy everything, including herself. It was "foreshadowing" told to us earlier in the film. She DID lose control as he (Xavier) had feared and she could not "revert" to a more controlled state: she was stuck in the "plasma" mode. She was, at that point, begging to have her life ended as she realized that Xavier was right, the whole time: she was completely out of control and could not stop herself. It was the the best writing in the movie, by far, and was rather out of place for the mostly superficial writing that occurred. I think that those that say Jean was holding back so Wolverine could kill her, really miss the best writing in the film. The point was for her to not be in control at all and to have gone to the point of no return, thus proving the foreshadowing right by Xavier and putting her in the position of having to chose only death as a release to her state. The only person that could deliver that was Wolverine: the only one with a fast healing factor AND an adamantium skeleton. What made that moment in film more powerful was his love for Jean. Even Logan's "Jean" fanboyism could not be overcome for his realization of responsibility.

Again, this is my opinion on what occurred and not fact.

Originally posted by Placidity
LOL, Xavier resisting disintegration? Good one.

I consider "stay out of my head" Xavier resisting considering he put mental blocks up to limit her, before.

Originally posted by Placidity
She wasn't straining.

I consider gritting her teeth and acting like a savage as straining.


Originally posted by Placidity
Clearly not full power.

I agree: that was my botched attempt at sarcasm. It was supposed to read like this:

"That was her full power...yet smaller than it was out in the open."

But, as Imp. pointed out, we should move on from that type of dialogue. I just wanted to point out that I agree that it's not her full power, but that she had to strain against Xavier's own mental powers.


Originally posted by Placidity
"Stay out of my head" was Jean Grey. Black Eyes and Ass-kicking was Dark Phoenix. He wasn't doing shit after Phoenix surfaced.

I disagree: she became Dark Phoenix after she woke up. Very erratic and very polar from second to second. That's the unstable version Xavier tried to "contain" when she was a kid and when she was an adult.

Originally posted by Placidity
I take it you concede then, given the weak and brief counter-arguments, and how you failed to address the point where Wolverine's suit was still there after a few waves of her attack, which according to you is full power despite it clearly wasn't on-screen?

No. But, if you'd like, we can agree to disagree. I think that's best.


Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But was the 1st appearance of the Terminator meant to be comedy?

There was certainly some comedy elements to it. Additionally, no clothes were removed or "blown off", which makes it an apples to oranges comparison. I would say that your Fantastic 4 comparison is a much better one because it involved the removal of clothes.

Originally posted by steverules_2
She didn't levitate everyone, she only levitated Xavier when she turned him into dust

That's a good point. Like Blaxican pointed out: it neither proves nor disproves anything about the nature of the encounter.


Originally posted by Placidity
Depends how you disagree really. Want to disagree yet not counter my points or provide evidence for yourself then yea, thats trolling, or more commonly known now as 'pulling a DDM'.

I will gladly take that label as it's almost deserved. But, I've posted on that DP-Wolverine encounter, before, so it's not as though I was avoiding evidence. Meaning, I'm not a COMPLETE douche.


Originally posted by Placidity
More than likely I think, since Comics Cap can do all sorts of shit with his shield. Pretty much throw it anywhere, it will bounce off 10 enemy targets and return to him.

You know if they show Cap using the shield to cut something off, he may have an argument since according to Origins, his shield should be able to cut through Wolverine. Thats if you wanted to make a case for Cap and ignore how Origins is full of crap.


Well, can the Captain throw it with enough force? I thought the bullets worked because of their shape, size, and velocity. Obviously, the adamantium bounced off of itself and we see that when Logan smacks them together in the bathroom.

I'd say the Cap would have to throw the shield really really hard. And because the shield has a much larger surface area, on it's edge, when thrown, he'll have to throw it faster than the bullet...but it does carry more momentum with it. Well...maybe not, then. PENETRATION BALLISTICS! EFF U! RAWR! I dunno, really.


Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
she could have easily done this to wolverine but didn't want to
I don't see it as "Wanting" or not wanting to, really. I see it as her losing control and not being able to think of anything but how shitty her life was and that it needed to end, immediately.

Well the issue in Terminator with the no clothes thing is linked to the "why no ray guns?" thing.
The story was that 'nothing non organic and/or not wrapped in living tissue could go through'...

('Til they went and f**ked that up in T2 with the advent of the T-1000 travelling these same means.)

do movie trailors count as feats even though the movie hasnt been released yet ?

"Until proven false" would be my way of looking it.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well the issue in Terminator with the no clothes thing is linked to the "why no ray guns?" thing.
The story was that 'nothing non organic and/or not wrapped in living tissue could go through'...

('Til they went and f**ked that up in T2 with the advent of the T-1000 travelling these same means.)

The poly-mimetic alloy was supposed to bypass that justification by being able to mimic every trait of flesh except for it's actual molecular make-up (I don't know if "temperature" counts, but it was supposed to "Feel" like flesh). This is why he came back in his "fleshy" form and not the liquid metallic looking form. The same holds true for T-X.


But, to me, that's justifying a silly rule specifically created for a plot device: no bringing weapons back so we can have a damn story, dammit!


lol

And all that "Something about about the field generated by a living organism" stuff?

But otherwise, I concur.

Movie Wolverine has no skill relative to his comic counterpart. He's been defeated by the likes of Mystique. I'm thinking Cap would kick his ass. Maybe not kill him but, yeah, we'll have to reserve judgement until July 22 arrives.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth

('Til they went and f**ked that up in T2 with the advent of the T-1000 travelling these same means.)

Well i'm presuming Skynet found a way to send a machine like that back to the past

obvisouly the resistance has inferior tech.

So why wouldn't the T-1000 have bought back a "Ray gun" (as the shrink Silberman asked Reese in 1984)..?

I don't get how this thread has gone from cap vs wolverine to the strength of Jeans powers on wolverine and Terminator 2

'Tis all a part of the mystery and enigma of that which is KMC.

and some members on this forum are Illuminati.

Originally posted by steverules_2
I don't get how this thread has gone from cap vs wolverine to the strength of Jeans powers on wolverine and Terminator 2

It started with a claim that the thread conditions do not present any way for Wolverine to be killed by Captain America.

It was catalyzed with this post:



Originally posted by dadudemon
From what we've seen, Wolverine cannot be killed by anything short of a catastrophic event that vastly eclipses Dark Phoenix' rape.

lol, I remember this thread.

You're a jerk Placidity.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
lol, I remember this thread.

You're a jerk Placidity.


I just went back and read pages 2, 3, and 4. Holy crap, that was annoying to read.







Also, I thought about it and I still don't think the Cap. can throw his shield hard enough to decap. James.



We'll have to wait and see. If Cap throws his shield strong enough to take of limbs, I'll concede that point.

He was right though, Jean's personality surfaced and held back DP's full fury long enough for Wolverine to get in and stab her. She wanted to die, she said so. He was the only one that could have done it though with the exception of maybe Colossus, no one else could have withstood the restrained attacks DP was still unleashing.

If DP had been in full control, every cell of Wolverines flesh could/would have instantly been turned to ash like every other mutant.

Originally posted by Robtard
He was right though, Jean's personality surfaced and held back DP's full fury long enough for Wolverine to get in and stab her. She wanted to die, she said so. He was the only one that could have done it though with the exception of maybe Colossus, no one else could have withstood the restrained attacks DP was still unleashing.

If DP had been in full control, every cell of Wolverines flesh could/would have instantly been turned to ash like every other mutant. So if she had remained DP and DP wanted to kill Wolvie, she would have been able to destroy his adamantium?

I'm not sure why every one is talking about killing Wolverine, per the OP Cap just has to stop him.

As with most fights I have never understood why people tend to default to a kill as being the only winning condition.

In this case the OP says he has to stop Logan, for all we know him may be able to talk him down, but even ignoring that. He may be able to tie him up or knock him out. If a bullet to the head can do it I imagine Cap with his shield has a chance. Hell somebody stronger or considerable more skilled has a shot at making him "tap out" in the metaphorical sense.

Their are other things to consider, like Wolverine breathes so what's to stop somebody from choking him out or drowning him.

True, someone could just hold down logan under water and that's it for him. But I doubt cap is strong enough to do that.

Still, movie Wolverine looked like he has had no formal hand to hand fight training. Guys like Mystique and Gambit were running cirlces around him.

So I think Cap will give him a huge beat down for almost an entire day... until such time that Cap is completely exhausted and then Logan will heal and stab through Cap.

Originally posted by Robtard
He was right though, Jean's personality surfaced and held back DP's full fury long enough for Wolverine to get in and stab her. She wanted to die, she said so. He was the only one that could have done it though with the exception of maybe Colossus, no one else could have withstood the restrained attacks DP was still unleashing.

He was wrong, in my opinion, actually. And I explained why.

Originally posted by Robtard
If DP had been in full control, every cell of Wolverines flesh could/would have instantly been turned to ash like every other mutant.

Incorrect, that was, at best, PIS. At worst, it was an incongruent portrayal for Wolverine's powers. There is literally no difference in the intensity and volume of the "DP Plasma" when he was approaching. In other words, a conclusion that leads you to say things like you did above is baseless. You have no way to prove that she held back when there is literally no indication that she did. You are basing it off of Wolverine's cells not turning to dust, instantly, but the evidence for your reasons is not there: she held back. She did not. She didn't change anything at all.

I explained it right here:

Originally posted by dadudemon
That said, here's my opinion on the events in X-3:

I think that saying Jean was holding back not to hurt Logan so he could kill her misses the very essence and importance of that scene. That scene was to show that Xavier was right: she will destroy everything, including herself. It was "foreshadowing" told to us earlier in the film. She DID lose control as he (Xavier) had feared and she could not "revert" to a more controlled state: she was stuck in the "plasma" mode. She was, at that point, begging to have her life ended as she realized that Xavier was right, the whole time: she was completely out of control and could not stop herself. It was the the best writing in the movie, by far, and was rather out of place for the mostly superficial writing that occurred. I think that those that say Jean was holding back so Wolverine could kill her, really miss the best writing in the film. The point was for her to not be in control at all and to have gone to the point of no return, thus proving the foreshadowing right by Xavier and putting her in the position of having to chose only death as a release to her state. The only person that could deliver that was Wolverine: the only one with a fast healing factor AND an adamantium skeleton. What made that moment in film more powerful was his love for Jean. Even Logan's "Jean" fanboyism could not be overcome for his realization of responsibility.

Again, this is my opinion on what occurred and not fact.


What it boils down to is your interpretation of the film.

You say it's obvious she held because he wasn't vaped. I say you missed a gigantic piece of some of the best writing in the film by concluding that.

Yeah, except, you can see Jean come through for a few moments and not DP. So that.

What you say would amount to some of the worst writing, if she wasn't holding back, she had other methods in stopping Wolverine if somehow his flesh was immune to being vaporized instantly like the others. EG telekinesis, mental assault.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, except, you can see Jean come through for a few moments and not DP. So that.

Except the problem with that line of thinking is a DP-only power remained on and literally did not show any signs of weakening. So that.

Originally posted by Robtard
What you say would amount to some of the worst writing, if she wasn't holding back, she had other methods in stopping Wolverine if somehow his flesh was immune to being vaporized instantly like the others. EG telekinesis, mental assault.

No, what I say shows (I already covered this so this makes me think that you didn't even read what I quoted of myself) that it is a much more complex plot than people give the movie credit for. Lastly, you can come up with anything you like to try and reconcile an obviously conflicted scene: you can choose to believe what you want beacuse there's no director or "making of" commentary that clears it up. It boils down to opinion.

After viewing X3 today, here's what I saw:

DP was pms raging, destroying everything around her. She was completely DP at the time. Logan began walking towards her, so she began hitting him with attacks, but his regen kept them from destroying him. As he neared, DP asked "You would die for them?" DP was completely in control. It was only when Logan said "No, not for them, for you", that Jean resurfaced.

So yes, DP was hitting Logan with her best shots.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
After viewing X3 today, here's what I saw:

DP was pms raging, destroying everything around her. She was completely DP at the time. Logan began walking towards her, so she began hitting him with attacks, but his regen kept them from destroying him. As he neared, DP asked "You would die for them?" DP was completely in control. It was only when Logan said "No, not for them, for you", that Jean resurfaced.

So yes, DP was hitting Logan with her best shots.

Thank you.


I love you.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Thank you.


I love you. Pretty sure you and I agreed on this long ago.

The DP part, also the love.


******.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Except the problem with that line of thinking is a DP-only power remained on and literally did not show any signs of weakening. So that.



No, what I say shows (I already covered this so this makes me think that you didn't even read what I quoted of myself) that it is a much more complex plot than people give the movie credit for. Lastly, you can come up with anything you like to try and reconcile an obviously conflicted scene: you can choose to believe what you want beacuse there's no director or "making of" commentary that clears it up. It boils down to opinion.

It not obliterating all of Logan's flesh instantly as it did the others is the sign that she was holding back cos of her butt-love for Logan. So that. Makes more sense than Logan having super-duper tough skin and flesh.

Again, if she had every intent on killing Logan up until the point he stabbed her as you claim, the the story sucks even more, as she had more in her arsenal in stopping Logan than turning people into ash if Logan somehow could resist being instantly turned to nothing but and and a shiny skeleton. Agreed, overall it is opinion based on what's shown to us. Also, your opinion is far sillier than mine.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
After viewing X3 today, here's what I saw:

DP was pms raging, destroying everything around her. She was completely DP at the time. Logan began walking towards her, so she began hitting him with attacks, but his regen kept them from destroying him. As he neared, DP asked "You would die for them?" DP was completely in control. It was only when Logan said "No, not for them, for you", that Jean resurfaced.

So yes, DP was hitting Logan with her best shots.

Just like a Wolverine fanboy to say "Wolverine pwns Dark Phoenix".

Originally posted by Robtard
It not obliterating all of Logan's flesh instantly as it did the others is the sign that she was holding back cos of her butt-love for Logan. So that. Makes more sense than Logan having super-duper tough skin and flesh.

Wrong.

She didn't hold back and, instead, blasted him with even more.

Here's the real reason:

"Incorrect, that was, at best, PIS. At worst, it was an incongruent portrayal for Wolverine's powers."

This point is not debatable, actually, because the movie directly contradicts you. This line of reasoning will not be discussed, anymore. If you wish to have an incorrect view of what happened, that's okay: but it's not going to fly in any vs. discussion.


Originally posted by Robtard
Again, if she had every intent on killing Logan up until the point he stabbed her as you claim, the the story sucks even more, as she had more in her arsenal in stopping Logan than turning people into ash if Logan somehow could resist being instantly turned to nothing but and and a shiny skeleton. Agreed, overall it is opinion based on what's shown to us. Also, your opinion is far sillier than mine.


The crux of your argument was destroyed, already. Further conclusions based off of that are simply wrong.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
After viewing X3 today, here's what I saw:

DP was pms raging, destroying everything around her. She was completely DP at the time. Logan began walking towards her, so she began hitting him with attacks, but his regen kept them from destroying him. As he neared, DP asked "You would die for them?" DP was completely in control. It was only when Logan said "No, not for them, for you", that Jean resurfaced.

So yes, DP was hitting Logan with her best shots. doesn't make much sense, in my opinion. Wolverine's power is to heal, healing factors don't increase durability, they just quicken the regeneration. They can't prevent damage. Wolverine was healing from having his skin and muscle stripped off, nothing we haven't seen him do before, and its not as impressive as some would like it to be.

Cap has a gun and shield, Logan has his leather coat, bottle of beer and his claws. Who wins?

Is Vibranium>Adamantium?

Wakandan Vibranium is basically on the same strength level as Adamantium, with the difference being that Vibranium isn't just strong, it absorbs energy directed at it. That's why Cap can stand behind it and get punched by Hulk without having his arms broken, if he had an adamantium one, every impact would break bones. Although Cap's shield isn't 100% vibranium.

Merged.

If Captain America has his shield, and it's to the KO, IMO he can knock Logan out with a well-placed throw, something definitely not outside of Cap's capabilties. I say the man in Stars and Stripes takes this.

Cap wins this.. Logan doesn't have a defense when Cap throws his shield and knocks Logan out..


besides his claws won't do anything to the shield

I'd actually agree that Roger wins. While he isn't that skilled in H2H combat. Neither is Wolverine really. Assuming that the shield can withstand admantium(the movie explains the shield is solely vibranium, whereas the 616 version is a composite alloy of both vibranium and steel) then I don't see Wolverine getting around the shield.

Rogers is obviously better than Wolverine in every physical area and Wolverine has shown that he can be knocked out by a bullet to the head so I'd wager a well-placed shield throw(which Cap is fully capable of) should do alot of damage.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wait an pee..see.

The shield is better than wolvie's adamantium, in the comics, because it is adamantium and vibranium.

Depends on who is faster. The movie wolverine was pretty damn slow compared to his VERY agile comic book counterpart.


Basically, it boils down to this:

Peak human, in every aspect, versus superhuman.

Superhuman in strength, endurance, agility, sight, hearing, taste.


Seems like a no-brainer, to me.

Since wolverine canNOT be killed, he wins via endurance.

exactly. I really dont know what people expect that Cap is going to do here. Caps shield would probably bounce off of wolverines admantium skeleton. advanced healing factor, heightened senses. Caps shield is indestructible and all but Wolverine is...,well Wolverine. Wolverine just needs one strick on Cap for the match to be over.

If this were a fight to the KO instead...,Captain america.

Having seen Captain America: The First Avenger, I'm gonna have to go with Wolverine.

in the movie universe, adamantium can cut adamantium, so it is possible for cap to severely hurt Wolverine if he hits him with the shield hard enough.

Originally posted by Trackz
in the movie universe, adamantium can cut adamantium, so it is possible for cap to severely hurt Wolverine if he hits him with the shield hard enough.


Where is this stated? I recall no such statement.

Originally posted by Impediment
Where is this stated? I recall no such statement.

It is not stated, but it is depicted.

Instances:

- Adamantium Bullet through Logan's Adamantium skull

- Stryker ordering Deadpool to decapitate Logan (you'll have to assume Stryker knew it was viable given he could be considered the pioneer of manipulating Adamantium.

Of course its bad writing though given we know it shouldn't have happened based on all other portrayals of Wolverine and adamantium. Even in X2, Stryker describes the alloy as "virtually indestructible", which is at odds with what happens in Origins.

Could wolverine cut through caps shield? mhmm Far as I know caps shield is made of vibranium...can't remember if it's the same in the movie but I dunno which of the two is stronger.

The Adamantium isn't going to cut Cap's Vibranium shield.

So is vibranium stronger?

Originally posted by Placidity
It is not stated, but it is depicted.

Instances:

- Adamantium Bullet through Logan's Adamantium skull

- Stryker ordering Deadpool to decapitate Logan (you'll have to assume Stryker knew it was viable given he could be considered the pioneer of manipulating Adamantium.

Of course its bad writing though given we know it shouldn't have happened based on all other portrayals of Wolverine and adamantium. Even in X2, Stryker describes the alloy as "virtually indestructible", which is at odds with what happens in Origins. When was he shot in the head with an adamantium bullet?

Originally posted by Mindset
When was he shot in the head with an adamantium bullet?

X-men Origins: Wolverine... ???

Vibranium/adamantium alloy is far stonger than adamantium by itself, correct?