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1) no prep

2) both have 15 sec. prep



who wins?

Ultron unless Doom can magic bfr.

Ultron in both.

Tough fight. Tough tough fight for Doom. Ultron's a beast physically. Doom himself has recognized this.

Doom.

Don't falter ODG, DONT YOU DO IT!

Doom.

Doom in both. Magic and science beats out science alone.

Originally posted by rotiart
Doom in both. Magic and science beats out science alone. Ultron is much more then just science considering its 15 seconds prep.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Ultron is much more then just science considering its 15 seconds prep. Ultron knows magic?

Originally posted by Mindset
Ultron knows magic? He doesn't need to to beat doom.

How is Ultron using more than science in his prep?

Originally posted by Mindset
How is Ultron using more than science in his prep? Whats doom going to do with 15 sec prep?

Why even state things if you can't even explain your rationale behind them?

I assume you'll answer this with another question...

Access his time platform and assassinate Dr. Pym.

Originally posted by Mindset
Why even state things if you can't even explain your rationale behind them?

I assume you'll answer this with another question... I don't even know what you were asking. I never claimed Ultron has more then science in his prep. But since its only 15 sec prep Ultron doesn't need magic to beat doom.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Ultron is much more then just science considering its 15 seconds prep. Originally posted by Black bolt z
I never claimed Ultron has more then science in his prep.

Originally posted by Mindset
OK....and that proves....what?

Just answer me this: How does Doom beat Ultron?

Can you read?

Or rather, do you understand the words you write?

Originally posted by Mindset
Can you read?

Or rather, do you understand the words you write? Yes. What do you want me to say?

At this point, I'm not sure...

Originally posted by Mindset
At this point, I'm not sure... Well then I stand by my notion that Ultron still wins.

How, Doom could easily bfr?

Originally posted by Mindset
How, Doom could easily bfr? True.

But overall Ultron is more durable, stronger, and has better weapons.

Such as?

Ultron is most definitely stronger, more durable and overall more powerful than Doom directly.

In a straight up fight, this is going to end up a beat down like it has against Sentry and Thor unless some magic is thrown in capable of changing the tables. Doom can put up a fight, but can't match higher end heralds straight up.

If by tricks you mean magic...

Originally posted by Mindset
Such as? Encephalo beam.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Fights/UltronsVsAvengers3.jpg

A ray that killed kang in one hit and Doom himself said would kill thor
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Weapons/Disintegrator.jpg

Flesh eating bugs
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Weapons/Technoticks2.jpg

I could go on.

That beam was created by Doom.....

And Thor was unharmed by it by the way.

BBZ, come on, seriously?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That beam was created by Doom.....

And Thor was unharmed by it by the way. Your point? Ultron still had it. My understanding was thor somehow avoided it. I mean Thor has good durability but that ray one shotted Kang. Thor doesn't have the durability to stand up to that unfazed.Originally posted by Mindset


BBZ, come on, seriously? WHat?

You think those three things are what's going to beat Doom?

Or that that is beyond Doom's power?

Originally posted by Mindset
You think those three things are what's going to beat Doom?

Or that that is beyond Doom's power? Hes also much more durable and much stronger. How exactly is doom going to win?

I believe I have already answered this.

Originally posted by Mindset
I believe I have already answered this. Has Doom actually ever BFR'd someone magically(I assume you were referring to magic)?

Doom isn't going to trade blow for blow with Ultron; that's just idiotic. And he sure isn't going to let Ultron unload on him (don't make it sick lol).

Could Ultron break the Bands of Cyttorak for one?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Doom isn't going to trade blow for blow with Ultron; that's just idiotic. And he sure isn't going to let Ultron unload on him (don't make it sick lol).

Could Ultron break the Bands of Cyttorak for one?

Since when does Doom has the bands of Cyttorak?

Originally posted by Black bolt z


Since when does Doom has the bands of Cyttorak?

Since a while.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Has Doom actually ever BFR'd someone magically(I assume you were referring to magic)? Yes.Originally posted by Black bolt z


Since when does Doom has the bands of Cyttorak? You don't even know what Doom is capable of, come on, BBZ...come on.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Your point? Ultron still had it. My understanding was thor somehow avoided it. I mean Thor has good durability but that ray one shotted Kang. Thor doesn't have the durability to stand up to that unfazed. WHat?

And Doom built it in a version that he created. Not a good piece of evidence.

How exactly did Thor dodge it? It hit him right in the face. He simply used the flash of light as a distraction for an escape.

Based on what really? Standing up to something that could f*ck Kang up is well within capabilities.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yes. You don't even know what Doom is capable of, come on, BBZ...come on. I know very well what Doom is capable of. I was not aware that he was in possesstion of the bands of Cyttorak(those are the ones that constrict you right)? If this is primary adamatium Ultron then those aren't going to work. All depends what version.

Jesus, Magneto, who isn't lacking in the ego department, just recently conceded that Dr. Doom is the most powerful person on the planet. Considering his intellect, resources, and magical prowess, I don't think it's an exaggeration; your mileage may vary once you consider people like Hulk, Thor, etc. Strange recently said that Doom likely knows magic he hasn't even considered learning. Rogers has said he's without a doubt the most dangerous man on the planet.

Regardless, Doom can and probably will win this all things considered.

Doom is most definitely not the most powerful person on the planet. If you take into account some of the more higher end entities, it's not even close. If you consider all of his resources, with prep time included, you could make a case with high heralds being the highest level of competetion.

That shit was just some cock strocking thrown in. Writers do that sometimes.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I know very well what Doom is capable of. I was not aware that he was in possesstion of the bands of Cyttorak(those are the ones that constrict you right)? If this is primary adamatium Ultron then those aren't going to work. All depends what version. ...what?

Anyway, Doom uses the bands, summons some mindless ones, farts in Ultron's face, then throws him into limbo.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Jesus, Magneto, who isn't lacking in the ego department, just recently conceded that Dr. Doom is the most powerful person on the planet. Considering his intellect, resources, and magical prowess, I don't think it's an exaggeration; your mileage may vary once you consider people like Hulk, Thor, etc. Strange recently said that Doom likely knows magic he hasn't even considered learning. Rogers has said he's without a doubt the most dangerous man on the planet.

Regardless, Doom can and probably will win this all things considered. Are you sure he didn't say most dangerous? Because he certainly isn't the most powerful?Originally posted by Mindset
...what?

Anyway, Doom uses the bands, summons some mindless ones, farts in Ultron's face, then throws him into limbo. WHat do you mean what? Debate for a change dude.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Doom is most definitely not the most powerful person on the planet. If you consider some of the more higher end entities, it's not even close. Maybe if you consider all of his resources, with prep time included you could make a case.

That shit was just some cock strocking thrown in. Writers do that sometimes.

In the literal sense? No, I don't think Doom is the most poweful person. All things considered with resources, intellect, that which makes Doom Doom, however, it's not as far fetched as it might seem.

Sure, but only if you draw the line at high herald or so. Any higher, and the omnipotent beings that exist on Earth means he has no chance of winning.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Are you sure he didn't say most dangerous? Because he certainly isn't the most powerful? WHat do you mean what? Debate for a change dude. Lol, debate for a change?

Calm down, sport, you're getting ahead of yourself.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I know very well what Doom is capable of. I was not aware that he was in possesstion of the bands of Cyttorak(those are the ones that constrict you right)? If this is primary adamatium Ultron then those aren't going to work. All depends what version.

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/442/cbands.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Sure, but only if you draw the line at high herald or so. Any higher, and the omnipotent beings that exist on Earth means he has no chance of winning.

Generally when people say "most powerful such and such on the planet" I assume they mean among the conventional heroes/villains, ie. Herald level. Hulk's been called that as has Thor and in DC, Superman and Alan Scott have been called that as well, which ignores the various entities and such which do exist on Earth.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Generally when people say "most powerful such and such on the planet" I assume they mean among the conventional heroes/villains, ie. Herald level. Hulk's been called that as has Thor and in DC, Superman and Alan Scott have been called that as well, which ignores the various entities and such which do exist on Earth.

We're agreed I guess.

You'd have to take into account his resources and such even if you only limit it at high herald to make a case for him being at the very top.

Currently the most powerful beings on Earth are:

Thor
Silver Surfer
Hulk

Doom can make it into the Top five definitely.

SS is on Earth again?

he had to put someone between thor an hulk

I don't want any stray lightning hitting Hulk. Poor guy.

Again, I know that Doom has the bands of Cyttorrak, but still, he's only passing through Ultron with magic bfr. 15 seconds is pretty much just the time to shield up, Ultron can, at the very least, control a few robots and bring them to the battlefield, distracting Doom and minimizing his chances of winning.

Doom autowins is the most rehearsed argument when he appears, in this battle his armor may as well get hacked, he may as well get ionic explosion bashed for all his worth, Ultron can hurt and ko Thor and has done so on occasion. Physically and magically prepped Doom couldn't beat Thor -although he was interrupted before the Destroyer Armor was finished, but still-.

Bottomline, Doom needs to bring very good moves to bring Ultron down, I'm not even sure he can summon the Mindless ones since he prepped in the past wtih Morgana to send them against the Avengers. Bands are fine, but Namor broke incomplete bands, Ultron should be able to do so.

If you got magic-bfr that may actually work against Ultron, then Doom can wins. Otherwise this is gonna be a painful combat for him.

IIRC, Thor knocked himself out by hitting Ultron too hard or something else in his first appearance. I'm not 100% sure but I remember it being iffy or some such because of the art. That's the only time Thor went down against Ultron I believe.

Ultron destroys Doom in a straight battle though.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
IIRC, Thor knocked himself out by hitting Ultron too hard or something else in his first appearance. I'm not 100% sure but I remember it being iffy or some such because of the art. That's the only time Thor went down against Ultron I believe.

Ultron destroys Doom in a straight battle though.


Yep, they stated something to that effect. On panel narration also implies so the time they fight in Ultron Unlimited.

Doom bfrs ultron like he bfred Morgana

I'm not sure how much difference the 15 sec prep is going to make for Doom, I guess he could prepare some more powerful spells in that time. But I think in both scenarios the first thing he has to do is raise his shield because he isn't going to want to take Ultron on directly. His shield will definitely take some punishment from Ultron - and I think give him a chance to go on the offensive.

There are a few tactics Doom could try:

1) BFR via magic is a distinct possibility and Doom is capable of it. I don't think Ultron is coming back from say the Dark Dimension in a hurry. It's possible Doom knows of places where there are magical entities lurking with the power (and the outright hostility) to destroy Ultron.

2) Crimson bands. There is some argument that the bands have been broken when not fully formed - but we've also seen this can depend on the skill and concentration of the caster. I don't believe any high class strength character can simply break them while forming every time otherwise what would be the point of them? - they are designed specifically for holding ultra strong beings. They were quite capable of holding an angry Hulk and they could hold Ultron if cast properly.

3) Other powerful magic - as Strange and others have pointed out, we don't really know the extent of Doom's magic. It's within possibility that he has something which could affect or alter adamantium, which is vulnerable even to science-based molecular manipulation.

4) I wouldn't rule out a tech victory for Doom either - he is extremely intelligent and his tech is up there with Ultron's.

Still, Doom is not going to be able to smash down Ultron with any physical or energy blast attacks etc and he is going to have to pull out all stops to survive here. But I think he can take close to a split in wins.

Ultron wins a physical brawl.

Doom wins all else. High-end science and high-end magic give him a considerable edge.

15 sec is enough time to time travel for Doom to come back with the IG or UN.

Originally posted by The Nuul
15 sec is enough time to time travel for Doom to come back with the IG or UN.


Doom doesn't like to mess with time-travel even if we assume he'd be inclined to do such thing.

Time-bfr like he used against Morgana would be fine, I don't recall the scene correctly, but it seemed as if Doom was preparing that spell explicitly to face her. I can be wrong though.

Stay outta this Frenchy, should I say Kang fanboy.

ahah

Originally posted by The Nuul
Stay outta this Frenchy, should I say Kang fanboy.

ahah


Just because I'm fan of a character man enough to blow up the universe to fight Ultron doesn't mean you have to be all sore about it.


biscuits

Dooms armor and force field gives him enough time to bfr ultron to Mephisto's realm.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Dooms armor and force field gives him enough time to bfr ultron to Mephisto's realm. Mephisto would just send him right back. Ultron has nothing he wants.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Mephisto would just send him right back. Ultron has nothing he wants.

it doesn't matter where!

Originally posted by Bentley
Just because I'm fan of a character man enough to blow up the universe to fight Ultron doesn't mean you have to be all sore about it.


biscuits

ha-son

Originally posted by Bentley
Again, I know that Doom has the bands of Cyttorrak, but still, he's only passing through Ultron with magic bfr. 15 seconds is pretty much just the time to shield up, Ultron can, at the very least, control a few robots and bring them to the battlefield, distracting Doom and minimizing his chances of winning. Doom summoning Doombots would be more likely. Originally posted by Bentley
Doom autowins is the most rehearsed argument when he appears, in this battle his armor may as well get hacked, he may as well get ionic explosion bashed for all his worth, Ultron can hurt and ko Thor and has done so on occasion. Physically and magically prepped Doom couldn't beat Thor -although he was interrupted before the Destroyer Armor was finished, but still-.Doom hacking Ultron is more likely. As he's actually had experience doing it to prior Utron incarnations twice on-panel. And like you said, Doom wasn't finished prepping and had Balder running around screwing around with his stuff. Originally posted by Bentley
Bottomline, Doom needs to bring very good moves to bring Ultron down, I'm not even sure he can summon the Mindless ones since he prepped in the past wtih Morgana to send them against the Avengers. Bands are fine, but Namor broke incomplete bands, Ultron should be able to do so.

If you got magic-bfr that may actually work against Ultron, then Doom can wins. Otherwise this is gonna be a painful combat for him. Doom learned how to summon the Mindless Ones from Morgana le Fay (which he's done before with an amp). Nothing suggested that Morgana lent her power to Doom to do so. And Doom isn't going to be in astral form receiving a psychic backlash to permit Ultron to stress and break incomplete Crimson Bands of Cytorrak.

Doom's fought toe-to-toe with some of the strongest characters on Marvel Earth. Ultron's relentless and a physical beast, but it's not a quick auto-win anymore than Doom w/prep is a quick auto-win.

Arguably Doom didn't hack former Ultron, he just "fixed" broken Ultron. Hank had his hands on Ultron's former bodies and he still had to use physical infiltration and an old programing language to stop him by using a virus. Again, we can agree Criti-Knoll is no Doom, but since Ultron improves itself quite totally each time, using Doom's experienced to hack Ultron isn't necesarily something feasible without prep.

Regarding summoning the Mindless ones, I agree that Doom did it under his own power, however, I'm torn in whether he used prep or not to summon them, considering that he came from the past after spending an undisclosed amount of time learning and -possibly- prepping the spell before going back to his castle. Admittedly it could be just a spell he can throw at random given that Doom's magical ability has been displayed to much more depth recently.

I agree with the rest of your statements.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Ultron is much more then just science considering its 15 seconds prep.

I don't understand this argument at all. Ultron is the result of science alone. What the heck else Did pym do To create Ultron if not use science. Has Ultron suddenly learned magic that I'm unaware of?!

Originally posted by rotiart
I don't understand this argument at all. Ultron is the result of science alone. What the heck else Did pym do To create Ultron if not use science. Has Ultron suddenly learned magic that I'm unaware of?! When I said that I mean that Ultron could beat doom without prep. Just because he doesn't know magic doesn't mean he loses.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
When I said that I mean that Ultron could beat doom without prep. Just because he doesn't know magic doesn't mean he loses.

I see. Well I guess.

15 seconds is very little time indeed. I can't see it making much of a difference compared to no prep.

In the end though if doom cast a simple spell to bfr Ultron... Or throw the bands of cytorrak on him... That should give him enough time to bfr Ultron...

Otherwise the only real way to put down Ultron without magic or reality altering is having vibranium Which I can't see doom having access to in either case...

Originally posted by rotiart
I see. Well I guess.

15 seconds is very little time indeed. I can't see it making much of a difference compared to no prep.

In the end though if doom cast a simple spell to bfr Ultron... Or throw the bands of cytorrak on him... That should give him enough time to bfr Ultron...

Otherwise the only real way to put down Ultron without magic or reality altering is having vibranium Which I can't see doom having access to in either case... Can't Ultron's interior circuitry still be damaged?

I don't think Doom would have any vibranium on him after the events of Doomwar.

I think both Doom and Ultron could take a lot of what the other was dishing out, but ultimately Doom has more at his disposal I feel than Ultron. It's going to be tough, either way, though.

Originally posted by Mindset
Can't Ultron's interior circuitry still be damaged? No.

He has internal shielding.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Fights/U13vsVision3.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Fights/U16vsAvengers8.jpg

Now whether magic can hurt his insides or not through the shields I have no idea but I would guess it could if Doom tried. Speculation though.

Ok, so his insides can be damaged.

Originally posted by Mindset
Ok, so his insides can be damaged. Only by something originating on the insides or strong enough to break through the shielding.

Originally posted by Mindset
Ok, so his insides can be damaged.

doom > commadore 64 bios

Doom installs the blackhole rat Mac virus into Ultron...

I figure something as evil as Ultron must been running apple software.

Ultron runs Android 1.5

Android is a piece of crap OS.

I'll punch you in the mouth, shoko.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
doom > commadore 64 bios


That was Ultron made from Stark tech.

And respect Commodore 64, it resurrected Tony

Originally posted by shokosugi
Ultron runs Android 1.5

Android is a piece of crap OS.

Even honeycomb? I'm actually excited
About the new wp7 and android phones coming out.
Using iTunes for my iPhone 4
Pisses me off

Originally posted by Mindset
I'll punch you in the mouth, shoko.

android sucks! android sucks!

Right in the kisser.

Dr. Doom is the Charlie Sheen of The Marvel Universe.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Dr. Doom is the Charlie Sheen of The Marvel Universe.

Badass.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Dr. Doom is the Charlie Sheen of The Marvel Universe. not as ugly as sheen though

Originally posted by Bentley
That was Ultron made from Stark tech.

And respect Commodore 64, it resurrected Tony i'll probably run that by bbz later, he's trying to use those feats like they apply

Originally posted by psycho gundam
not as ugly as sheen though

i'll probably run that by bbz later, he's trying to use those feats like they apply Feats like what? Hacking tony?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Feats like what? Hacking tony?

tony has protected himself since after Ultron turned him into a hot chick.

^ Yup. And when the Skrulls tried to hack Tony to begin their Secret Invasion they completely fail-

... oh, right.