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Flying over a forest on a sunny day, Tony eats some Dunk 'N Donuts when suddenly, a bright light gets into his eyes which prevents him from seeing a tall tree up ahead. He makes contact with it and crashes on the ground. He gets up and sees a shiny teenage-looking boy. "Hey you, emo fairy!" Tony shouts. "You can try to blind me and make me land on my arse like a goof but nobody, and I mean nobody, makes me ruin my donuts!" Tony puts his faceplate back on and Edward goes into a fighting stance while looking like he's trying not to cry.

Iron Man from his first and second movies goes up against Edward from all of his laughable Twilight movies. Will Iron Man be able to kick this "vampire's" arse or will his iron hide be the one that will be kicked while silly fangirls scream "team Edward" in the background?

Discuss.

Are you serious?

Not really.

Did not think so.

laughcry

edit- Not at your intro, Nem. That was retarded. At this thread in general.

How did Edward blind Ironman?

The only conclusion I can come up with is Edward was standing naked. **** the sparkly skin, that image alone is enough to blind somebody.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
The only conclusion I can come up with is Edward was standing naked. **** the sparkly skin, that image alone is enough to blind somebody. Because of his unearthly sexiliciousness?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Because of his unearthly sexiliciousness?

dur ...No.

Ironman would OWN liddle Eddy.

What the MVF people want: Tony wins.


Realistically: Edward wins without much effort.

Having never watched the Iron Man movies, I'm not too sure on the suits durability. If anyone has feats for it, let me know.

And realistically I don't see how Edward wins.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Having never watched the Iron Man movies, I'm not too sure on the suits durability. If anyone has feats for it, let me know.

And realistically I don't see how Edward wins.

Took F-22 Raptor fire, a tank shelling and various attacks from the Iron Monger, though it was damaged during that last fight, but the suit was also running on low-power. That's the first film.

Iron man cuts Edward into six sequental pieces using his lasers.

Edward cannot hope to harm him then and dies laughably.

Edward can't compromise the armor Tony used at the end of IM2.
Lasers take care of the rest once the melee starts. Uni Beam to the face as well.

Originally posted by dadudemon
What the MVF people want: Tony wins.


Realistically: Edward wins without much effort.

How? I haven't watched the Twilight films, but based on the descriptions of the vampire powers from other users in various other threads, I don't see how Edward will hurt Iron Man.

Originally posted by McNasty996
Iron man cuts Edward into six sequental pieces using his lasers.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Edward cannot hope to harm him then and dies laughably.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Edward can't compromise the armor Tony used at the end of IM2.
Lasers take care of the rest once the melee starts. Uni Beam to the face as well.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
How? I haven't watched the Twilight films, but based on the descriptions of the vampire powers from other users in various other threads, I don't see how Edward will hurt Iron Man.


Like I said:

Originally posted by dadudemon
What the MVF people want: Tony wins.


Realistically: Edward wins without much effort.

If you guys think I'm just taking the piss, I've actually debated this very topic to death, already. Well, it wasn't much of a debate.

Edward cannot hope to break the armor and gets torn apart and burned by lazers of fury!!!!11!!1

Or he can fly around forever and make it a tie.

Edit: Hmm...new thread idea.

How would Edward avoid the lasers?

Originally posted by McNasty996
How would Edward avoid the lasers?

I'm sure you could think of something.

Please, enlighten us on how Edward wins.

Originally posted by KingD19
Please, enlighten us on how Edward wins.

Nah.

This forum is dead set on Twilight hate. It would be a very very stupid idea if I actively tried to support the twilight side. Like I said, I actually debated this discussion already with other people that are less hellbent on hating on Twilight.

The fact that no one (cept the obvious) has offered reasons why Edward may win should be proof enough of that. Can you provide any reasons that Edward might win? Part of a good discussion, not a bash fest, would be considering both sides: not just blindly saying one side wins because of x and y.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah.

This forum is dead set on Twilight hate.



Its because they'd all taken Downey Jnr's advice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svwGRJA28lY

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah.

This forum is dead set on Twilight hate. It would be a very very stupid idea if I actively tried to support the twilight side. Like I said, I actually debated this discussion already with other people that are less hellbent on hating on Twilight.

The fact that no one (cept the obvious) has offered reasons why Edward may win should be proof enough of that. Can you provide any reasons that Edward might win? Part of a good discussion, not a bash fest, would be considering both sides: not just blindly saying one side wins because of x and y.

Edward does have the ability to read minds and predict movements and perhaps that can work to his advantage to an extent. He does have super speed, though it does seem rather tame in the movie compared to the books. His strength however is nothing to write home about, his speed is not laser speed, and his mind reading capabilities are not perfect since he has been seen getting knocked onto the ground by other characters in a fight.

There's your fairness. Now, why doesn't Iron Man win again?

Iron Man for the many obvious reasons already stated.

Honestly, i dont give a damn about Twilight, though i didnt really like IM2, they kind of left me hanging on the whole action scenes and crap.


Anyways, lasers are focused beams of light that emit heat. Whats the thing vamps use to kill each other? Heat. The lasers could theoretically make this a win. That and the prototype suit for testing flight exceeded mach 1. Its not going to be easy, but the Iron Man suit at the end of 2 just had to much tanking ability and to much firepower for Cullen to take.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Its because they'd all taken Downey Jnr's advice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svwGRJA28lY



HA!

Originally posted by Pwned
Honestly, i dont give a damn about Twilight, though i didnt really like IM2, they kind of left me hanging on the whole action scenes and crap.


Anyways, lasers are focused beams of light that emit heat. Whats the thing vamps use to kill each other? Heat. The lasers could theoretically make this a win. That and the prototype suit for testing flight exceeded mach 1. Its not going to be easy, but the Iron Man suit at the end of 2 just had to much tanking ability and to much firepower for Cullen to take.

The same exact reasons you say that it is not enough are the same exact reasons that they are enough.

You get a bit more leniency due to not being around these parts for too long: Edward was calculated at having an average speed of 10,000 MPH from the first film: much greater than mach 1, and that was on land.

Damnit, I didn't want to get into why Edward wins. I wanted the anti-twilighters to figure it out and grow, on their own, in appreciation for the "feats" in emo-girlie Twilight. It's near impossible for someone else to "convince" others of something they hate: it's a much better option to suggest that there may be something more to the discussion than just the hate for something that is easy to hate. If they come up with reasons and actually tried to make it logical, it would: 1. Most likely be correct. 2. Be their idea, not someone elses. 3. Increase the intelligence of discussions when it comes to Twilight. I'm just as outspoken for the many problems seen in Twilight (both the movies and the novels), as anyone else, so do not mistake my posts in this thread as fanboyism.


Originally posted by Pwned
Honestly, i dont give a damn about Twilight, though i didnt really like IM2, they kind of left me hanging on the whole action scenes and crap.


Anyways, lasers are focused beams of light that emit heat. Whats the thing vamps use to kill each other? Heat. The lasers could theoretically make this a win. That and the prototype suit for testing flight exceeded mach 1. Its not going to be easy, but the Iron Man suit at the end of 2 just had to much tanking ability and to much firepower for Cullen to take.

There's no shame in admitting it, but are you aware of how the Twivamps bite the dust?

10,000mph from the first movie? I doubt he moved anywhere near that fast.

Originally posted by KingD19
10,000mph from the first movie? I doubt he moved anywhere near that fast.

K.

I'm just saying, if you're gonna say he moved that fast, put up some proof or explanations, not just saying he was moving 10,000mph even though he never broke the sound barrier.

Originally posted by KingD19
I'm just saying, if you're gonna say he moved that fast, put up some proof or explanations, not just saying he was moving 10,000mph even though he never broke the sound barrier.

Previous threads, broski.

Bring proof now and I'll consider it.

And lasers can do the part of both ripping vampires to pieces and setting them on fire.

Unlike most everyone else here, I actually have read those shitty books and watched those shitty movies. I can't recall anything impressive from either. What I do recall is Carlisle surprising Edward in combat, making his Mind reading capabilities seem pathetic.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Bring proof now and I'll consider it.

Nah. I'd rather not discuss it. You could have looked it up almost as long as it took you to type that post.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And lasers can do the part of both ripping vampires to pieces and setting them on fire.

K.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Unlike most everyone else here, I actually have read those shitty books and watched those shitty movies. I can't recall anything impressive from either. What I do recall is Carlisle surprising Edward in combat, making his Mind reading capabilities seem pathetic.

Wah? I don't remember that at all.

Same here. Books sucked, movies sucked.

And yes, i do know how vamps bite the dust. You rip them to pieces then burn them. And Edward cant move NEAR as fast as 10000 mph. That would be going faser than an F-22 normally does, no matter how durable his skin the Gs would rip him apart. He can run at maybe close to 200-300 mph, tops.

You have to remember the Werewolves are fast enough to chase most of em.
Originally posted by Pwned
Same here. Books sucked, movies sucked.

And yes, i do know how vamps bite the dust. You rip them to pieces then burn them. And Edward cant move NEAR as fast as 10000 mph. That would be going faser than an F-22 normally does, no matter how durable his skin the Gs would rip him apart. He can run at maybe close to 200-300 mph, tops.
The speed sounds right.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah. I'd rather not discuss it. You could have looked it up almost as long as it took you to type that post.

Why would I look it up? I haven't the slightest idea where to start looking and you obviously know where the data for this feat is. So you copying it and pasting it would be more beneficial to both of us.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wah? I don't remember that at all.

In Eclipse, movie not book (can barely remember the books), Edward knocks Carlisle down, turns to Jasper to grin like the sob he is, until Carlisle turns ninja like and knocks him down. It's the part where Jasper is showing the Werewolves how to fight newborn vamps.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Why would I look it up? I haven't the slightest idea where to start looking and you obviously know where the data for this feat is. So you copying it and pasting it would be more beneficial to both of us.

MVF.

You're DEFINITELY not an idiot: how dare you make me help you with something "computer" related.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
In Eclipse, movie not book (can barely remember the books), Edward knocks Carlisle down, turns to Jasper to grin like the sob he is, until Carlisle turns ninja like and knocks him down. It's the part where Jasper is showing the Werewolves how to fight newborn vamps.

AHA! So Edward is suprised by movie-only plot induced stupidty? Cause-like, Edward could not have been able to be caught off guard like that with his mind reading powers.


Edit - I found a thread for you to read:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=534654

The "answer" is in there. However, the "ORIGINAL" answer is somewhere in the MVF in a much more explained version. I called "BS" the first time someone rambled that off to me. One youtube video later, I changed my mind.

laughcry

Oh my god....Oh my god...

laughing

Who discovered this feat again?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Why would I look it up? I haven't the slightest idea where to start looking and you obviously know where the data for this feat is. So you copying it and pasting it would be more beneficial to both of us.



In Eclipse, movie not book (can barely remember the books), Edward knocks Carlisle down, turns to Jasper to grin like the sob he is, until Carlisle turns ninja like and knocks him down. It's the part where Jasper is showing the Werewolves how to fight newborn vamps.

Edward in the films has already shown that although he has been described as "fast" by the mom of the clan he has been caught and tagged by 2 vampires and caught only because he was saving Bella in 1 scene.
His speed by canon is higher than the average vamp but not enough to make him the best.
As far as the speed feats go amongst the upper tier vamps they have problems with werewolves, who don't rely on time defying feats and just on raw strength, agility and cunning.
Ironman feats at the end of IM2 give him feats that put Wolverine to shame.

Ironman would have killed most of the new blood horde and hovered above and picked off the rest. A threat the Cullens were terrified of.

Yeah the whole flying thing makes it impossible for Cullen to win, simply because Tony can land and take off again before Cullen is there. He cant move instantaneous.


And wasnt RJ the one who started spouting the whole "10000 MPH!!!1!11!" thing?

If he was, are you HONESTLY taking him seriously? honestly?

Well... my question, is that, Dadudemon has made his point, that Edward wins, very clear. However he has also made clear that he has no intention of actually proving that. So that being the case, why is he still posting in here? Obviously he doesn't really have anything more constructive to say, since he's basically repeating himself.

I don't know either but that feat is so completely wrong it makes me laugh and cry at the same time. laughcry

Where has Reggie, that is to say, RJ, gone to?

Originally posted by dadudemon
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=534654
That is quite possibly the saddest thread I've seen on KMC... Ever.

After getting all the laughs out of my system, I need to get this straight.

Because James "allegedly" beat Bella to Phoenix, while Bella was riding a jet( ), it proves the vamps have speed of over 9000 mph?

There is just so much wrong with this.....so much.

im actually curious to see someone who knows something about Edward to debate for his side. so far his support is pretty sad. personally i dont like him either.. but this thread is freakin sad.. if you think Edward can win then defend him..


ironman wins until proven otherwise.. simply due to lack of proof for edwards ability. =/
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iNW0qFfSmFM/TBLxXoIenKI/AAAAAAAADBM/d0AUDjOB1Io/s400/Edward_sparkling-1.jpg
"stand there and watch my sparkle baby!"

Simply put, Edward is too slow to do anything about Ironman, not strong enough to really hurt him, not capable of really hitting him in the air, and his mind reading ability is faulty.

Anything I'm missing?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Simply put, Edward is too slow to do anything about Ironman, not strong enough to really hurt him, not capable of really hitting him in the air, and his mind reading ability is faulty.

Anything I'm missing?


......his sparkle?

It makes him easier to see, not that it would matter to Iron Man.

Also, about the 9000 mph crap. Edward himself (in Midnight sun) states that it's faster and easier for them to travel by car and plane.

Not only that, but if they really could run that fast, why did Alice and Bella drive through Italy? Alice could have easily held on to Bella and ran the distance.

That and both the movie and the books prove that James did not beat Bella to Phoenix or go anywhere close to over 9000 mph.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
After getting all the laughs out of my system, I need to get this straight.

Because James "allegedly" beat Bella to Phoenix, while Bella was riding a jet( ), it proves the vamps have speed of over 9000 mph?

There is just so much wrong with this.....so much.

Settle down and stop trolling.

I have the film, right here

1:32:57
Bella leaves with Alice and Jasper to DRIVE to Phoenix AZ.

1:33:32
Bella is in Washington, still.

1:33:33
They are now seen in Arizona.

1:33:46
James is still in Washington.

1:33:53
James figure out that they are tricking him and heads towards Bella.

1:34:10
Bella is seen pulling up to the hotel and it's the same "daylight' as we saw before at 1:33:33 meaning, very little time has passed and that makes sense: the camera showed them on the highway at 1:33:33 and it zooms in to what appears to be a "location" and then it shows the hotel. So, I guess the camera is trying to show us that they drove that direction to the hotel.

1:34:22
Alice sees James, still in Washington, Change direction, while at the hotel. Keep in mind that James is in Washington in this shot and Alice and co are in Phoenix, at the hotel.

1:35:24
It's later in the day as the sun is almost directly overhead.

1:35:27
Alice and Jasper are seen in the hotel lobby and Alice is telling Jasper when "checkout time" occurs: 11. That may be 11 PM. We don't know.

1:35:34
Bella answers a call from her home. It's James. James had enough time to go through Bella's home videos and find one where her mother is speaking, put together a little trick, and call Bella and have it setup to trick her. Even if you assume that it took him a couple of hours to go through her stuff like that, it still makes his time to run from Washington to Phoenix very very fast: Edward is faster while carrying Bella.

1:36:25
Jasper and Alice are seen checking in or out the Hotel at the front.

1:36:37
Bella sneaks past Jasper and Alice at the front desk.

1:36:50
Bella is seen arriving that the studio and it is no longer dusk: looks like the sun fully sets.



It was estimated that about 10 minutes had passed from the time they first arrived at the hotel and the time we see Bella packing her stuff very shortly after having gotten off of the phone with Edward...who was calling to say that they lost James. So, however long it took Edward to run back home with his group, get in the car, and start driving, and then jump to the scene of Bella hurriedly packing her stuff due to Edward's disturbing call which said he was going to take her away, alone, with him.

Again, 10 minutes is the estimate.

Edward makes it to Bella, from Washington, in what appears to be a few hours. Most of which occurred in a car. We don't know at what point Edward ditched the car and ran to the studio, but he beats everyone to the studio. Just enough time passes between the Forks location and the Phoenix AZ location to make it change from in the morning (when he called) to the evening right after sunset (shortly after Bella got to the Studio.) The trip takes 26 hours, best route, to drive there. Let's say that Edward, just to be lenient to the naysayers, started driving towards Phoenix around 9 AM (wrong, because he called shortly after they lost track of him, but I'm being "nice". He might have left later, closer to noon, than 9 because James calls shortly thereafter when Bella is packing her stuff due to Edward's call. But, hey, I'm being really nice.) and gets there around 8PM (Sunset is around 7:00 in April, in AZ, which is around the time that Edward and Bella have their AZ adventure in the first film: it is the end of the school year.)

That's a 1522 mile trip in 11 hours. That's 138 mph, average speed, to get to the studio from his location, part of which was driven in a Jeep Liberty which has a top speed of 113, best case scenario. In other words, along the lines, somewhere, they got out and ran to make up the difference. We can speculate what that time was, but it had to have occurred some point after Bella left the hotel and Jasper and Alice noticed. Even at a top speed, and still assuming 9 AM as the depart time, that has Bella leaving the hotel at sunset which is around 7 PM. Total miles traveled by 7 PM at the top speed of 113 MPH: 1130 Miles. We know that number to be wrong, because, as fact, they were driving around 45 when Edward called her from the road. Still, I have to humor the worst speed scenario for you guys because you will definitely want to gimp Edward as much as possible because of your twihate. Total miles traveled at top speed in 10 hours: 1130 miles. So, Edward has to make his trip to the studio in an hour because, again, Bella snuck out and was not noticed until "later" between the hour it looks like it takes between the hotel and the studio. This, again, is assuming the absolute slowest scenario for Edward because it is far more likely that Alice and Jasper do not notice her missing until they are done at the front desk.

So, how many miles left (which is just to Phoenix. I'm not taking into account how long Edward has to travel from the hotel to the Studio. Or from his current location on his trip straight to the studio: we just don't know, so I'll gimp in favor of a slow Edward): 392 miles left.

So, in an hour, Edward makes it from his current location on his ultra unrealistic speed to the studio at 392 mph. This assumes he doesn't stop by the hotel, drove 113 MPH the whole time (impossible), and got a call on his cell from Jasper and Alice once they realized he was gone.

Let's go with something that is more in-tune with the film: Edward does not drive 113 miles per hour, straight to the Studio in Phoenix. He would have driven, on average, around 45 MPH (80, highway, which accounts for about 1100 miles on the interstate. Stopping to get gas, driving through over a dozen cities, etc.)

Add that into the equation and we get what?: 450 miles driven. Let's be generous to the 450 miles being driven because of the large amount of highway they could have driven on. 1522-450 = 1072

So, a more realistic scenario (but still greatly gimps Edward's speed) has Edward running at 1072 Mph. But, it's still not taking into account that Edward had to be called sometime after Bella left, then redirected towards the studio, of which, he had no clue where it was. We can only assume that it was looked up on the internets (or a map) and then given to him.

From the time Bella walks into the studio to the time that Edward comes crashing in on James' parade, this is a "sequence" with no time skips. So Edward gets to her location from somewhere between Washington, Phoenix, and the hotel. We don't know where he came from.

James indicates that Edward beat the others there because he's faster than the others, implying that he Ran there (obviously.)

Around..

1:40:48
The rest of the gang gets there.

I amend my previous answer to "at least 1072 Mph, but most likely much greater due to several events that must occur before Edward would know where to go."

Since we know Edward is faster than James, and they most likely lead James around the woods for a few hours, it's far more likely that James made his trip sometime between 11 and 12 and got to Phoenix in about 10 minutes. He had to have time to search through Bella's crap in order to setup his scenario *(see below). That leaves almost no time, at all, for him to have done anything except run there before noonish. Since we know Edward is faster, on foot, while carrying Bella, Edward Obviously could have easily made the same trip.

Knowing that, we can logically say that Edward made his foot trip sometime right before 8 PM or right after 8PM. There's no way that Edward could not make the same trip like James because he is supposedly faster than James while carrying Bella.

But, for he sake of gimping to appease the haters, we can stick with 1072.

Originally posted by MadMel
Also, about the 9000 mph crap. Edward himself (in Midnight sun) states that it's faster and easier for them to travel by car and plane.

But, you see, the books also don't have a speed feat of anything greater than 60-70 mph, from what we can tell. This isn't about the books. This is about the movies.

Originally posted by MadMel
Not only that, but if they really could run that fast, why did Alice and Bella drive through Italy? Alice could have easily held on to Bella and ran the distance.

You bring this up as if the author did a great job of NOT writing herself into plot holes. In fact, that WOULD have been the best option to get there faster. Bella could have driven and Alice could have ran there.

An apologist will point out that Edward didn't run as fast as he could with Bella on his back due to how violent it would be: he ran so gently that Bella described it as gliding or some shit, yet it was very fast.

Again, we have leave the books out.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
That and both the movie and the books prove that James did not beat Bella to Phoenix or go anywhere close to over 9000 mph.

I agree. I was mixing up the book with the film because I've only seen the movie, once.

*But, a case could be made that says he got there even faster than 10 minutes because James had to review the tapes to find one that fit his purposes for his "trap." Regardless, James ran from Washington to Phoenix from sometime in the morning to around noon. Several events occurred before that happened: he and Victoria stopped by the highschool and found Bella's previous address. He then ran to Phoenix, staked our Bella's home long enough to see her mother leave because her father called her mother. And then go through the shit in the house enough to find a video to fit his purposes.

And this is why I did not want to get into this: it's a gigantic waste of time.


Edward can run as fast or faster than Ironman can fly.

Edward also can read minds to such a point that even a veteran at slaying vampires could not get the best of Edward. Edward employs so quickly that it is to the point of it being equivalent Jedi battle precog...and THAT'S against a superhuman that has super-speed, super-strength, and super-reflexes. The difference would be even greater between a human with human reflexes.

To the idea that his lasers will land on Edward: how can he shoot Edward with his high-powered lasers when: he knows exactly where Stark is going to shoot them? How is Stark going to hit Edward with anything when Edward can move so fast the he's a blur in 4x slow-mo. On top of that, that was Edward's WEAKEST showing in all of the films: he hadn't eaten anything in months because of his depression.



Even if you assume that the fight starts with Ironman IMMEDIATELY taking off as soon as the fight starts, this does not account for Edward's ability to read Ironman's thoughts.


There's also the problem of Ironman being easily torn apart by Edward. Let's not forget that a car is like styrofoam to Edward. Or, are we overlooking that?



To sum up: Edward goes into his ultra-fast blur speed, tears off Ironman's head. Edward wins 10/10 times.

Ironman takes flight and tries to fire a missile at Edward? Edward easily outruns Ironman and takes cover. Edward also easily reads Ironman's mind and sees exactly where he fires his missile, easily dodging out of the way and easily getting aware from the blast before it occurs. Ironman tracking Edward? Edward can run more than fast enough to any area and get out of sight? But wait, you say Ironman has heat vision in his HUD, right? Edward is as cold as the air around him: he's a damn vampire.

Let's pretend, for an instant, that Ironman can hit Edward with one of his Palm shots: it does nothing to Edward. Being slammed into a solid slab of marble so much so that it shattered and made a indention, only cracked his face, which he healed from very quickly. That would be enough to make any meatbag splatter. Ever seen the damage dun to the side-walk from a really high jump of a suicide attempt? I could post one, but lots of times, it doesn't even crack: the person bounces as well as kind of flattens/splats a bit.





Why did I even bother to explain why Ironman obviously loses to someone that moves absurdly fast and is absurdly strong? Because I grew tired of the whining and I had time. I also grow tired of TheAuraAngel trolling me and trying to goad me into posting so he/she could pretend that there's anything that could be argued in my post. Regardless of the obvious twilight victory, you guys will pretend as though you can tear apart my arguments.

This is why I will not argue for one side or the other, in this thread, anymore.

Enjoy your butthurt and twi-hate, MVF.

I think you have the events of the movie mixed up shockingly bad.

James had already suspected that Bella would go to phoenix. Therefor, he was ready to travel there at any time. He had Victoria call him by phone to confirm his suspicions. Not only that, but James took a plane from Washington to Phoenix. As Laurent said, James was just as capable as the Cullens at mingling with humans without succumbing to his addiction.

Dont forget one thing. That little itty bitty missile, and that the suit is more durable than a freaking MBT with 3x more armor than they already have. It could tank anything thrown at it, short of another suit, made like his, or to break his. Oh, and that stuff Caps shield is made from, Vibranium or something? (i forgot) HE MADE THAT. Unbreakable metal was made. By Stark. And know what? Its in his suit. If a car is styrofoam to Edward, the MK III suit is like a 5 inch steel bar. He can only hit the joints, and then have a hope. Besides, splash radius from explosions will take him out. Or the Unibeam.

You guys who defend Twilight, you pull the most random things i have ever seen to defend it. Your saying that, in a couple hours, ON AN INTERSTATE, Bella, Jasper, and Alive drove to Phoenix. That alone would take over a day, a day James would have. Then, checking out of a hotel requires at least 1 day stay. Thats 2 days James has. No doubt they could run there in 2 days. Besides, they are slower than a jet.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Settle down and stop trolling.

I have the film, right here

*snippet*



You're the one who put a jet there, not me.

As do I. And so long as I'm playing your game, I may as well imitate you.

1:31:22

Bella leaves Forks at what I assume is near sunrise time.

1:31:45

We see Rosalie rub against that tree and what appears to be a similar time due to lighting. Then again, could be midday too.

1:31:47

Bella and the weirdos are seen driving along the road but it is much brighter outside, indicating that they've been driving for a few hours, meaning they are quite a bit away from Forks.

1:31:54

In Arizona, much brighter outside.

1:32:07

James runs past the same tree Rosalie rubbed against. Look at the weather and tell me exactly what time it appears to be outside. To me it looks like early morning.

1:32:22

We see Bella and the weirdos pull into the hotel. Problem with your morning theory is, well, the hotels lights are on. Considering lights like that tend not to go on until it's nearly night time. We know it can't be very close to morning because when we see them driving on the road, the sun seems to suggest it being middle of the dayish. I say ish because I'm not sure. And the scene where Alice has her vision chance seems to indicate some light from the outside.

Interesting thing to note: Alice sees the tracker change his mind mere seconds before Edward calls and says they lost track of him, making her future seeing capabilities look down right pathetic.

1:33:31

We see the male weirdos on the road to Phoenix and it looks about morning ish midday. No idea where they're at but likely close to Washington.

1:33:42

Outside of the hotel looks similar to before. Two options: Morning, no. Afternoon? Likely. The shadows look to be in the same place but the lights are not on. Meaning it's a tad bit earlier than when they arrived. The lighting in the room is the same as before so it would indicate that, wouldn't ya say?

1:35:01

Even darker outside and lights are all on. Fair enough to assume it took Bella some time to decide her plan of action. Jasper and Alice were simply talking downstairs at the time so they likely wouldn't keep track of the time. Also, lul at you confusing Alice's voice with another girls.

So explain how it can be afternoon time when Alice saw James change his mind and how it can be afternoon time when Bella got the phone call from James?

That and your entire argument hinges on Edward and the rest of the Cullens ditching their car which you have no proof of them doing. It's also inconsistent and ignores logic.

Quit saying I'm trolling by the way, considering the fact that you pulled a jet out of nowhere to say that James was faster than it. haermm

Note:We may have different versions of the film, which might indicate the difference of times.

Originally posted by MadMel
I think you have the events of the movie mixed up shockingly bad.

Despite the fact that I gave you a second by second recap?

Originally posted by MadMel
James had already suspected that Bella would go to phoenix.

Yet, he magically follows a dead end trail through the woods.

Originally posted by MadMel
Therefor, he was ready to travel there at any time.

He had the Blackbird warmed up and everything, huh? You're simply wrong. He had no contingency: just follow Bella. After he figured out that trail was a fake, he and Victoria found Bella's address.

Originally posted by MadMel
He had Victoria call him by phone to confirm his suspicions.

And where is this magical phone? This still does not counter ANYTHING I stated as him having a phone does nothing to the time line.

Originally posted by MadMel
Not only that, but James took a plane from Washington to Phoenix. As Laurent said, James was just as capable as the Cullens at mingling with humans without succumbing to his addiction.

Fail: that's the book. The ONLY thing Laurent told the Cullens, from what we saw on screen, is as follows:

Carlisle: Wait! He came to warn us...about James. (1:31:12)
Laurent: This isn't my fight, and I've grown tired of his games, but he's got unparalleled senses, absolutely lethal.
I've never seen anything like him in my 300 years.
And the woman, Victoria, don't underestimate her. (1:31:27)



It should be no surprise that you did nothing to refute anything I've stated as it would have taken you far more effort.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You're the one who put a jet there, not me.

As do I. And so long as I'm playing your game, I may as well imitate you.

1:31:22

Bella leaves Forks at what I assume is near sundown time.

1:31:45

We see Rosalie rub against that tree and what appears to be a similar time due to lighting.

1:31:47

Bella and the weirdos are seen driving along the road but it is much brighter outside, indicating that they've been driving for a few hours, meaning they are quite a bit away from Forks.

1:31:54

In Arizona, much brighter outside.

1:32:07

James runs past the same tree Rosalie rubbed against. Look at the weather and tell me exactly what time it appears to be outside. To me it looks like early morning.

1:32:22

We see Bella and the weirdos pull into the hotel. Problem with your morning theory is, well, the hotels lights are on. Considering lights like that tend not to go on until it's nearly night time. We know it can't be very close to morning because when we see them driving on the road, the sun seems to suggest it being middle of the dayish. I say ish because I'm not sure. And the scene where Alice has her vision chance seems to indicate some light from the outside.

Interesting thing to note: Alice sees the tracker change his mind mere seconds before Edward calls and says they lost track of him, making her future seeing capabilities look down right pathetic.

1:33:31

We see the male weirdos on the road to Phoenix and it looks about morning ish midday. No idea where they're at but likely close to Washington.

1:33:42

Outside of the hotel looks similar to before. Two options: Morning, no. Afternoon? Likely. The shadows look to be in the same place but the lights are not on. Meaning it's a tad bit earlier than when they arrived. The lighting in the room is the same as before so it would indicate that, wouldn't ya say?

1:35:01

Even darker outside and lights are all on. Fair enough to assume it took Bella some time to decide her plan of action. Jasper and Alice were simply talking downstairs at the time so they likely wouldn't keep track of the time. Also, lul at you confusing Alice's voice with another girls.

So explain how it can be afternoon time when Alice saw James change his mind and how it can be afternoon time when Bella got the phone call from James?

That and your entire argument hinges on Edward and the rest of the Cullens ditching their car which you have no proof of them doing. It's also inconsistent and ignores logic.

Quit saying I'm trolling by the way, considering the fact that you pulled a jet out of nowhere to say that James was faster than it. haermm

Note:We may have different versions of the film, which might indicate the difference of times.


Fail. Your entire argument is based on a lie that wishes to trick the readers.

You're tried to and I caught you deliberately lying about the events in the film.


They are as I described: not your lies.

You also tried to indicate there's a magical "brightness" difference in Forks when it is ALL sequential or no change.


Edit - Just watched the sequence, again.

As she pulls away from the Cullen's place, it is absolute dark. At this point, it does not matter what it is outside because they haven't tricked James.

Bella calls her mom and it's still morning, but it is not very bright because they are still in Washington. You could argue that a few hours pass and it is around 8.

The very next scene has Rosalie marking a tree and it is the same time, outside.

The next shot shows them driving on the road. It's still not much brighter.

Very next shot: they are now magically in Phoenix. Still no sight of James.

We can only assume that 26 hours has passed for Bella. And it's a new day. How else did she get there?



The very next scene shows James running through the woods. Keep in mind that this is a new day because Bella has already made it to Phoenix and he BACKTRACKS. Alice does NOT see that until they are in the hotel. Guess what that means? James' backtracks and when Alice sees it, it's in her future (she doesn't see the present, she sees the future). So, it's even WORSE than you thought it was in favor of some super fast runners.

Originally posted by Pwned
Dont forget one thing. That little itty bitty missile, and that the suit is more durable than a freaking MBT with 3x more armor than they already have. It could tank anything thrown at it, short of another suit, made like his, or to break his. Oh, and that stuff Caps shield is made from, Vibranium or something? (i forgot) HE MADE THAT. Unbreakable metal was made. By Stark. And know what? Its in his suit. If a car is styrofoam to Edward, the MK III suit is like a 5 inch steel bar. He can only hit the joints, and then have a hope. Besides, splash radius from explosions will take him out. Or the Unibeam.

Some much rubbish in this post. Stark did not make Caps shield. At best, it was a replica. You do not know what that shield was made of.

Covered the itty bitty missile argument, already.

Covered the OBVIOUS problem of his armor being an issue.

Originally posted by Pwned
You guys who defend Twilight, you pull the most random things i have ever seen to defend it. Your saying that, in a couple hours, ON AN INTERSTATE, Bella, Jasper, and Alive drove to Phoenix.

Nope. That's not what was said at all. One day passes. It's not until the NEXT day that James changes course.

Originally posted by Pwned
That alone would take over a day, a day James would have. Then, checking out of a hotel requires at least 1 day stay. Thats 2 days James has. No doubt they could run there in 2 days. Besides, they are slower than a jet.

Again, Alice SAW James change course BEFORE he changed course. It took them more than a day to travel there and more than a day for James to change course.

We are dealing with 2 separate days.



The original 9000mph run was wrong. I admitted that. I had the events of the book confused for the events in the movie. I thought Bella took a plane and was called on her cell, on the plane.

A lie huh?

Care to point out where I lied? I fully admitted that I may have a different version of the film. I'm also using my PS3 to do the frame by frame, which may be different from a normal DVD player, if you're using one at least. I wouldn't know.

Edit: I assume she got there by, ya know, driving.

Edit: This buisness about Alice is debunked by the film, where seconds after seeing the vision Edward calls saying they lost track of James.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
A lie huh?

Care to point out where I lied? I fully admitted that I may have a different version of the film. I'm also using my PS3 to do the frame by frame, which may be different from a normal DVD player, if you're using one at least. I wouldn't know.

Edit: I assume she got there by, ya know, driving.

Yeah, just pointed it out. Thanks for playing.


You deliberately tried to falsify events to make yourself right. Bad form. Very lame. If this is how you try to "win", GTFO of the MVF.


Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Edit: This buisness about Alice is debunked by the film, where seconds after seeing the vision Edward calls saying they lost track of James.

Oh, so minutes couldn't have passed between the time James changed directions (cause Edward could listen to his thoughts from a distance) and by the time they get back in the car and start driving towards Phoenix?

Again, thanks for playing. You're lying and falsifying events to make yourself right. If you do that again, I'll report you for trolling.




Watch the scene again. Alice is seeing into the future. Sees that he's changed course and sees the room of mirrors. That's a future. She cannot see into other locations runing in current time. He had changd course, previously, in an earlier scene. The two "timelines" do NOT match up. When they get to the hotel, she finally sees that future and then sees the alternate future of the dance studio.


Edit - Also, Edward calls about a minute afterwards. Not sure where the car was relative to their location, but they got in it quickly and started towards Phoenix. Keep in mind that there were THREE cars: the Jeep, that red car and the Audi.

Again you say I try to falsify things when you assume the Cullens left their car, no proof of this, and you assume that Alice saw farther into the future than the film says. About a minute passes between the time Alice saw the vision and Edward contacted them. NOTHING indicates that more than a minute of time passed except an inconsistancy. Carlisle was likely driving behind them and near as I can tell there plan was to trap him.

Again, show me where I lied?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Again you say I try to falsify things when you assume the Cullens left their car, no proof of this, and you assume that Alice saw farther into the future than the film says.

Again, show me where I lied?

I already showed you where you lied. Both times.

I did not say Alice saw very far into the future. You lie, there, as well.

She has proven that she can see as much as fractions of a second into the future in her example of a hand to hand fight with Jasper.



So your arugments, now, hinge on lying to be right.

All I heard was complaining about the lighting, which is not necessarily proving me wrong so much as it is *****ing at the fact that somebody beat you at your own game. Now tell me, which one of us appears the more reasonable? The one with the reasonable argument based on lighting who fully admits to possibly having a different version of the Dvd and different equipment? Or the one who is saying that someone is wrong without, well, proof?

Edit: I fully understand your perspective by the way but in no way should you assume I'm merely lying for my own opinion to beat yours. I asked a 3rd party in real life what time of day it appeared to be in both scenes outside the hotel and she agreed with me. I'm not lying purposely young one and I'm sorry it has offended you so greatly that you think I am. I am truly sorry.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
All I heard was complaining about the lighting, which is not necessarily proving me wrong so much as it is *****ing at the fact that somebody beat you at your own game.

Trolling. Reported.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Now tell me, which one of us appears the more reasonable? The one with the reasonable argument based on lighting who fully admits to possibly having a different version of the Dvd and different equipment? Or the one who is saying that someone is wrong without, well, proof?

No, this:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Again, Alice SAW James change course BEFORE he changed course. It took them more than a day to travel there and more than a day for James to change course.

We are dealing with 2 separate days.


Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Edit: I fully understand your perspective by the way but in no way should you assume I'm merely lying for my own opinion to beat yours. I asked a 3rd party in real life what time of day it appeared to be in both scenes outside the hotel and she agreed with me. I'm not lying purposely young one and I'm sorry it has offended you so greatly that you think I am. I am truly sorry.

Holy shit, didn't expect that. I apologize for my grumpy attitude, then.

Now we can get along, right?


Like I was saying earlier: we are dealing with two days.

First day, 24-26 hours, comprises of James gettting lead on and Bella getting to Phoenix.

The Second day, early morning, involves James changing course and Bella and Co arriving at the hotel. They arriveat the hotel and check in BEOFRE James changes course. Alice sees him changing course (again, she can see into the future fractions of a second, making it seem like a parallel viewing, but it's still the future.) As soon as he changes course, they know where he goes. A minut later, Edwards calls Bella. We know that somewhere in that minute, Edward got into the car and started driving towards Phoenix.

Now, you COULD argue that an entire day and 7 hours pass (it was around Noon the second day when James changed course.) But why show bella, immediately aftwards, packing her stuff after Edward said he's coming to get Bella? Why, then, would it show the Bella left that evening, a few hours later, when Jasper and Alice are either booking more people, checking out, or extending their stay?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Holy shit, didn't expect that. I apologize for my grumpy attitude, then.

Now we can get along, right?

No, you reported me! I can never forgive this insult to my honor! We shall be mortal enemies until death now!

Nah, just kidding. Of course we can get along.


Originally posted by dadudemon
Like I was saying earlier: we are dealing with two days.

First day, 24-26 hours, comprises of James gettting lead on and Bella getting to Phoenix.

The Second day, early morning, involves James changing course and Bella and Co arriving at the hotel. They arriveat the hotel and check in BEOFRE James changes course. Alice sees him changing course (again, she can see into the future fractions of a second, making it seem like a parallel viewing, but it's still the future.) As soon as he changes course, they know where he goes. A minut later, Edwards calls Bella. We know that somewhere in that minute, Edward got into the car and started driving towards Phoenix.

Now, you COULD argue that an entire day and 7 hours pass (it was around Noon the second day when James changed course.) But why show bella, immediately aftwards, packing her stuff after Edward said he's coming to get Bella? Why, then, would it show the Bella left that evening, a few hours later, when Jasper and Alice are either booking more people, checking out, or extending their stay?

Which comes to the crux of our problem. We have different answers about when they arrived. Assuming they arrived at noon and saw the vision then, it would make since that Edward would need an entire day to arrive there in car. Bella would obviously pack up her things to be ready for him and Jasper and Alice would wait downstairs for them to arrive.

But, I has a test to study for and can no longer continue typing out long posts like these. So ta ta for now and hopefully it won't take too long to sort this out. ^_^

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
No, you reported me! I can never forgive this insult to my honor! We shall be mortal enemies until death now!

Nah, just kidding. Of course we can get along.

Cool beans.




Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Which comes to the crux of our problem. We have different answers about when they arrived. Assuming they arrived at noon and saw the vision then, it would make since that Edward would need an entire day to arrive there in car. Bella would obviously pack up her things to be ready for him and Jasper and Alice would wait downstairs for them to arrive.

But, I has a test to study for and can no longer continue typing out long posts like these. So ta ta for now and hopefully it won't take too long to sort this out. ^_^

You could argue that an entire day and a few hours passes between the time Bella talks to Edward and the time that Bella tries to step out. It would have to be around 26-28 hours. It just seems out of place that the director would show Bella packing up right after Edward got on the phone...and then do a 28 hour time skip before she sneaks off to the Dance hall. Why would she wait more than a day to go to the Dance hall? Her mother was caught by James and she did not want anyone to get hurt.

We do know that that an entire day passed when they (Alice and Co) left Forks and when they get to the Hotel. Alice gets her vision right after they arrive because it shows that it is morning. No matter what, we have a nice case for James for being able to make the run in 2-3 hours. Edward is faster. That's it.

I have no less than 4 tests and I am procrastinating. However, I don't have to study for these tests: it's history tests! WEEEEE!

Originally posted by dadudemon
You could argue that an entire day and a few hours passes between the time Bella talks to Edward and the time that Bella tries to step out. It would have to be around 26-28 hours. It just seems out of place that the director would show Bella packing up right after Edward got on the phone...and then do a 28 hour time skip before she sneaks off to the Dance hall. Why would she wait more than a day to go to the Dance hall? Her mother was caught by James and she did not want anyone to get hurt.

We do know that that an entire day passed when they (Alice and Co) left Forks and when they get to the Hotel. Alice gets her vision right after they arrive because it shows that it is morning. No matter what, we have a nice case for James for being able to make the run in 2-3 hours. Edward is faster. That's it.

I have no less than 4 tests and I am procrastinating. However, I don't have to study for these tests: it's history tests! WEEEEE!

I suggest the phone call took place after they did a 26 hour skip.

I'll meet you halfway. Judging by the scene where the Cullen males are in the car driving while Edward is calling, we can call it day time. Halfway between morning and afternoon. Fair enough?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I suggest the phone call took place after they did a 26 hour skip.

I'll meet you halfway. Judging by the scene where the Cullen males are in the car driving while Edward is calling, we can call it day time. Halfway between morning and afternoon. Fair enough?

Fair enough. But that puts it about the time that I estimated for the Cullens. I think you're coming "all the way" and I'm not conceding anything.


Here, I'll do one better:


I was actually, and you by extension, chastised for even getting hung up on the entire "run" discussion during that 2 day period.

It's actually moot in a combat experience because the vamps will not be locked onto by Stark because they are "cold ones." The whole point of that was to outrun any heat-seakers Stark might have or the tank baster but it doesn't really matter. How are they supposed to get up to top speed before impact? How long will it take to get to top speed? etc. etc. etc.

I humbly accept that criticism.



What does count is combat speed: fighting at speed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Fair enough. But that puts it about the time that I estimated for the Cullens. I think you're coming "all the way" and I'm not conceding anything.


Here, I'll do one better:


I was actually, and you by extension, chastised for even getting hung up on the entire "run" discussion during that 2 day period.

It's actually moot in a combat experience because the vamps will not be locked onto by Stark because they are "cold ones." The whole point of that was to outrun any heat-seakers Stark might have or the tank baster but it doesn't really matter. How are they supposed to get up to top speed before impact? How long will it take to get to top speed? etc. etc. etc.

I humbly accept that criticism.



What does count is combat speed: fighting at speed.

I assure you that you are.

I think he said "You guys who defend Twilight" which doesn't include me because I see Edward losing this fight. :O

That said, anything heat seaking is not going to work obviously. Lasers will but not heat seaking things.

Edward's combat speed is not very impressive in my opinion. :O

I never said that Stark made Caps shield, i said that whatever he did to make that new element or whatever it was, was what Caps shield was made of (I pulled that from the comics, not the Iron Man comics, but just random stuff that made me have that realization)

Anyways, after i look at the Iron Man scenes with the armor, the armor covers his entire body, there are no joints. Its more of full flexible metal. If they Iron Monger couldnt rip it apart, neither can a TwiVamp.

Originally posted by Pwned
I never said that Stark made Caps shield, i said that whatever he did to make that new element or whatever it was, was what Caps shield was made of (I pulled that from the comics, not the Iron Man comics, but just random stuff that made me have that realization)

Not sure what that's about but it's still wrong. (Not to be rude.) The shield in 616 is mad of vibranium and adamantium. Niether of which exist in the movies for Ironman.

Originally posted by Pwned
Anyways, after i look at the Iron Man scenes with the armor, the armor covers his entire body, there are no joints. Its more of full flexible metal. If they Iron Monger couldnt rip it apart, neither can a TwiVamp.

Wah?


K.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Not sure what that's about but it's still wrong. (Not to be rude.) The shield in 616 is mad of vibranium and adamantium. Niether of which exist in the movies for Ironman.
Wah?
K.

They exist in Wolverine origins.

But I separate the Marvel films into those made by studios. And the ones made by Marvel Studios.

But considering the Captain America trailer. Which is definitely based in the same universe as the Ironman films. The elements exist.

So whats all this talk about Vibranium?

Did someone say the armor is made of that? Cause its not.

Originally posted by Placidity
So whats all this talk about Vibranium?

Did someone say the armor is made of that? Cause its not.

Pwned said that Stark had the materials for Ironman's shield because we saw an incomplete prop in the background in one of the films. It's a baseless claim.


We actually know what Ironman's suit is made out of: titanium and gold. He actually says what it is made out of in the first Ironman film.


Originally posted by the ninjak
They exist in Wolverine origins.

But I separate the Marvel films into those made by studios. And the ones made by Marvel Studios.

But considering the Captain America trailer. Which is definitely based in the same universe as the Ironman films. The elements exist.

1. I never said they don't exist, period, in any fictional universe. They just do not exist in Ironman's universe.
2. Your post has no bearing to this thread or the thread outcome.

Meh. I was half asleep when me and my friends came to the conclusion he made Vibranium. Dont recall that i said the suit was MADE of it. I said some little bit of it may be like it, or i MENT to. Forgive my half concious rambling.


Where did he say what it was made from?

Also, have we seen Twivamps do anything that suggests ripping apart titanium is possible even for them?

Originally posted by Pwned
Where did he say what it was made from?

Also, have we seen Twivamps do anything that suggests ripping apart titanium is possible even for them?

Ironman 1.

He says it rather fast so you will have to turn subtitles on. Watch the scene where he's building the ironman.


Ripping apart thin plates of Titanium is much easier than you think...especially when they are "watered" down with gold.

Yet the armour took tank shells and blows from both Iron Monger and Whiplash extremely well. Iron Monger was punching through buses and Whiplash was cutting everything but teh armour like it was butter. It has more durability that the Twivamps can dish out imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yet the armour took tank shells and blows from both Iron Monger and Whiplash extremely well. Iron Monger was punching through buses and Whiplash was cutting everything but teh armour like it was butter. It has more durability that the Twivamps can dish out imo.

I agree that it has more durability than a vampire can punch, straigh on, with.

However, I'd put the twivamps as much stronger than Ironmonger.

Edward is "not very strong" and he easily pushed over a thick tree like it was nothing. The strength required to do that is well over 100 ton class. Somewhere on here, I did a calculation out for the tree. I think the tree would have had to weigh at least 80 tons, minimum. That's not taking into account how much force he would have had to apply to break the tree...which would be many times the weight of the tree.

This is why Bella says cars are like Styrofoam to them.

This is also why Carlisle said that no human army could stand against 20 newborn vampires.


Also, I have a theory as to why Ironman's armor, which is made of gold and titanium, withstood the whips...somewhat: the gold. The gold is the best or second best conductor (depends on what you want to classify as "best" of electricity. I'd say that his armor absorbs much more of the arc reactors electricity and we do see an electrical component to the whips. There's no way that his suit should not have been torn to shreds by being made out of gold and titanium. Many called that PIS and whined about it...but that's the best reason I can come up with for why the whip can tear through much more metal in the form of a race car but doesn't seem to tear through less than an inch of titanium and gold. It doesn't cut it as a good explanation, however: it rather sucks. But it's the best we can do.

His suit still experienced tearing/destruction. Just not on level with what other items experienced.




What I mean, is: the twivamps could easily tear his armor to shreds. They won't be punching through it, however.

It's funny that someone assumed that Ironman had Vibranium in his armor just because he had a prototype of the shield in his basement. The thing looked wobbly and half made.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is why Bella says cars are like Styrofoam to them.

What I mean, is: the twivamps could easily tear his armor to shreds. They won't be punching through it, however.

Edward stopped a car with pushed pressure against a sliding car door.
Ive never seen one tear a car a metal apart.

And the tree Edward pulled out was in a moist damp climate and the tree wasn't that big......or was it?

As I said, i was half asleep and running on pure caffeine, my mental faculties could have nearly been considered drunk with how much sleep i hadnt gotten in the past few days.

He pulled out a decent sized root, though not terribly big. And yes, the ground was still soaked from the constant rain.

DDM, I think you spent more time typing your excuses of not wanting to bring up the debate than you would have if you actually brough up the debate.

You look like a troll more than anyone here.


K?

k

Even me? =D

Originally posted by Mairuzu
DDM, I think you spent more time typing your excuses of not wanting to bring up the debate than you would have if you actually brough up the debate.

That's factually incorrect. I did a word count and it's a ratio of 42 to 1. 42 words actually debating to every 1 word spent on discussing the concept of 'look up the old threads.'

I'm wrong. I left out an entire page. It's actually 61 to 1 ratio.

Additionally, it took faaaaaaar longer to type up the posts where I went down the events in the film, second by second, to show 2 days elapsed and few minutes to a few hours elapsed for the 'run' times. That, alone, far eclipses the couple of minutes it took to post on telling others to read other threads.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
You look like a troll more than anyone here.


K?

k

It's quite obvious that you came in this thread specifically to take the piss out of me with factually incorrect statements. You're the only troll I see in this thread. Kindly GTFO or contribute.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Edward stopped a car with pushed pressure against a sliding car door.
Ive never seen one tear a car a metal apart.

And the tree Edward pulled out was in a moist damp climate and the tree wasn't that big......or was it?

No, what actually happened is a car was sliding, at speed, towards Bella. He ran about 20-30 yards in the blink of an eye, stuck his hand out, and he car bounced off of his extended hand. It left a nice dent in the van, as well.


Edward didn't pull out a tree: he pushed it over. I was wrong: he actually uprooted and tore the roots by pushing it over. That's a much stronger feat that I realized. I've only seen the movie once and a little bird corrected me in private.

And, yeah, in another thread, I went down the "math" on a tree of that size and calculated it out. It came to about 80 tons, irrc. That's just the weight of the tree. It would take a far greater effort to push it over via tearing the roots. So much so that I do not know how much that would take but it's definitely in the hundreds of tonne-force (metric) if not thousands.

What tree again?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
What tree again?

In the third film. Edward pushed a tree over with the red hawtie in it. Reminded me of that Jane Goodall sequence in that movie they made about her...where the "natives" chopped the tree down with the chimp up top and the little dude was scared sh*tless? Is that odd?

Ah I see. Not a bad feat. Inconsistent as **** but not a bad feat.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Ah I see. Not a bad feat. Inconsistent as **** but not a bad feat.

It's quite consistant with their strength, actually. A car that's nothing to them, in motion, and is stopped on a dime, by only holding out his arm (no strain) is quite a good strength feat. Depends on how it can be quantified as it's a very low low end strength showing compared to how high end he can go...so it doesn't tell us what the limits are. However, the tree feat is quite high-end for him, but does he strain? I've only seen the movie once...so that would tell us what high end for Edward would be.

It is inconsistent.

brdIPy021-4

At the end Ed getting slammed into the ground just cracks it a bit. If vampires were really class 100+ then it would have made a crator or something. Note that this knocks Ed out, so he's also kind of a pussy.

This is consistent with the Twilight fight scene, which is just them kind of flying back a bit. At one point Ed's thrown and he doesn't even brake a window properly.

Personally I'd like to see that tree, because most trees are 20 tonnes at most, not 80.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It is inconsistent.

At the end Ed getting slammed into the ground just cracks it a bit. If vampires were really class 100+ then it would have made a crator or something.

I covered that point, already, in the most direct way possible. You are definitely wrong. Contrast Edward's adventure with that of a suicide jumper: does the suicide jumper make that much of damage on the "softer" concrete?

Additionally, you assume that a class 100 lifter can make a larger crater when that's not the case at all. That's just simply moving the body even faster which is definitely power, but not 'strength.'

http://www.squashgame.info/squashforum/3373

Additionally, you assume a larger crater would be made if 100-tonne force was applied. In fact, it depends on how small the area is that this force is applied to. If it were applied to most of Edward's body, which would be similar to falling from a large building, it would be even smaller. I covered this point already, as mentioned earlier.


If you would like, I could tell you exactly, in terms of momentum, what the differences are.


In fact, I will.


Momentum = mass times velocity

Find the momentum of a person (Edward) falling jumping from a 40.00 story building:
Assume a weight of 165.00lbs. Convert 165.00lbs to Kg = 74.25


The calculation would come out as follows:
146.30 = (.5)*9.8*x^2

146.30 = the number of meters in a 40 story height (assuming 12.00 feet per story, on average).

Solve for "x."

x = + or - about 5.46 seconds

Use that number to calculate final velocity in this measure due to gravitational acceleration:

5.46s * 9.81 m/s/s = 53.56 m/s

Use that final velocity to calculate his momentum:

53.56 m/s * 74.25 Kg = 3977.02 kg*m/s = Momentum


K, you with me?


Now, apply that to a 100 ton lifter.

100.00 tons = 90.00 tonnes = 90000.00 Kg.

It takes about 3.00-5.00 seconds to for most max lifts on a clean and jerk. We'll stick with that as an answer. Here's a 1.00 rep max shoulder press (fast forward to about 1:58.) It took him about 4.00 seconds.

It's about 2.00 feet to move:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfurY-ggOWg

2.00 feet = .0.61 meters

p = mv


So we need to find the average velocity during that motion:

4.00 seconds to move 0.61 meters = 0.15 m/s

.15 * 90000.00Kg = 13,500.00 kg*m/s

Compare that to our previous example:

3977.02 kg*m/s
13,500.00 kg*m/s




Now, you could EASILY argue against what I've just presented, but here's what I've tried to do:


I showed you the momentum required to make some damage on some concrete/sidewalk from 40 feet is comfortably within the range of a 100 classer. Felix, in no way, smashed Edward with as much force as he possibly could because he did not raise Edward in the all the way above his head and then slam him down into the ground with all of his might. Since the vampires are very very very far into the superhuman category, Felix could get an even faster slam if he had someone or something anchor his feet. It looks like the force on the ground mostly comes from Edward's head.








Originally posted by Nephthys
Note that this knocks Ed out, so he's also kind of a pussy.

1. He's definitely not knocked out, just dazed for literally fractions of a second.
2. He recovers quite quickly including the crack.
3. Let's see what happens when someone that fast slams you into the ground: you'd splatter.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This is consistent with the Twilight fight scene, which is just them kind of flying back a bit. At one point Ed's thrown and he doesn't even brake a window properly.

Personally I'd like to see that tree, because most trees are 20 tonnes at most, not 80.

K.


The weight of the tree doesn't even matter.

He broke the tree, at the roots, by pushing it over at the base of the tree: the most crappy "leverage" possible in such a situation. We are literally talking well over 1000 tonnes of force. Take another ->

Originally posted by Nephthys
Personally I'd like to see that tree, because most trees are 20 tonnes at most, not 80.

P7t8QVcNRMU

Around 0:55.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's factually incorrect. I did a word count and it's a ratio of 42 to 1. 42 words actually debating to every 1 word spent on discussing the concept of 'look up the old threads.'

I'm wrong. I left out an entire page. It's actually 61 to 1 ratio.

Additionally, it took faaaaaaar longer to type up the posts where I went down the events in the film, second by second, to show 2 days elapsed and few minutes to a few hours elapsed for the 'run' times. That, alone, far eclipses the couple of minutes it took to post on telling others to read other threads.



It's quite obvious that you came in this thread specifically to take the piss out of me with factually incorrect statements. You're the only troll I see in this thread. Kindly GTFO or contribute.

This is just sad.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
P7t8QVcNRMU

Around 0:55.

that is a very good strength feat for edward

Actually, it's not, I did the math, and let's not forget, Elephants do that shit all the time.

2.1 KJ. Not that impressive.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
IF that tree is a full meter thick (it's not), and he snapped it near the base (he didn't) this would require 40MPa of stress, pinewood's UTS is 40MPa, so yeah.

Since Pa = Newton per meter squared, and 1 newton = 1 joule that'd be 40 MJ or 8 992 357 pounds of force. Luckily! The tree is not that big. ... And...! Elephants push trees over consistently with their heads, the trees don't break their roots give. Granted the trees are smaller.

IE, the tree should not have snapped before it's roots gave. We can't see the roots but logicly let's just be real, here, even if the vampires do sparkle. The numbers for just pushing a tree over are MUCH less impressive.

Now for a more realistic set of numbers, looking at the tree it's probably about .6-7 of a meter thick, Sooo.

Here's something that happens in nature, a tree grows at too extreme of an angle to support it's own weight. This results in stumps uprooting themselves, not the trees breaking, everyone who's ever been in a forest has seen a stump like this.

Let's assume a 45 degree angle is typicly where the give happens. In a tree this size, *looks again, just eyeballing, guesstimate*

A freezeframe at 0:59 reveals it's /not that big/.

It looks about 7-9 meters and tapers, as trees do. So, to find it's volume:

Base (0.6) x height (8) x width (Pi*r^2) /2.
13.57 M^2

Now if we find the density of soft wood

the density of common softwoods varies from 450 to 640 kg/m3 so, let's go big or go home. 13.57 x 640 kg = 8685.8 kg.

Now, if a tree's hit 45 degrees to fall over, that means it root structure cannot horizontally support 50% of it's weight, approx. Sooo.. /2

4342.9 kg.

9554.46 lbs, or 4.7 tons of force. Equivalent to 2140.19 Newtons, 2.1 Kj. Not very high scale.

Dadudeman is being intellectually dishonest, as someone who spends a lot of time maintaining the use of atleast semi-accurate physics in the Games v.s. forum, it was kinda hardcore to actually see someone claim class 100+ for pushing over a tree.

Yeah, I was having my doubts on that feat. Still the nicest by far out of the Twilight feats but 1000 tons is just not believable. Now, if Edward had picked up a giant ****ing black rock and throw it, that would be another story. awesome

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yeah, I was having my doubts on that feat. Still the nicest by far out of the Twilight feats but 1000 tons is just not believable. Now, if Edward had picked up a giant ****ing black rock and throw in, that would be another story. awesome Throwing giant black rocks is srs fckn bsns, sir.

So is playing tennis with buildings.

Thanks for the math help Scream! Let's go do shit now. :O

Yeah, that tree isnt that big, i have a bigger one in my front yard in an urban area.......

Hell, ive seen one over 3 times that big knocked over uring a thunderstorm......

Perks of livin smack in the middle of Tornado Alley =-p

Man, you guys sure showed Dadudemon.

Credit is due to ScreamPaste....though I get a 10% finders fee for the video and Nephthys gets 10% for asking Scream to do the math.

http://thinkmoult.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/SarcMark.jpg

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, it's not, I did the math, and let's not forget, Elephants do that shit all the time.

2.1 KJ. Not that impressive.

Right, cause elephants are used to pull over very large, ALIVE, trees with ropes attached at the base, and they do it in a couple of seconds, right?



Here's your elephants, much much higher on the tree, on much smaller trees, with tiny roots, in comparison, pushing trees up in dry soil

http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/28492-natural-born-winners-elephants-strength-video.htm


Also, show your work. I'm willing to bet that your math is not only wrong, but you used incorrect numbers.


As fact, there's no way to properly calculate that feat with any degree of accuracy other than guessing.

Additionally, your "unit" of measure is completely off: we don't want energy, we need newtons.




Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Dadudeman is being intellectually dishonest, as someone who spends a lot of time maintaining the use of atleast semi-accurate physics in the Games v.s. forum, it was kinda hardcore to actually see someone claim class 100+ for pushing over a tree.

Nah, but you just tried to pass off elephant strength feats as being comparable, even in the slightest, to what Edward did.


Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yeah, I was having my doubts on that feat. Still the nicest by far out of the Twilight feats but 1000 tons is just not believable. Now, if Edward had picked up a giant ****ing black rock and throw it, that would be another story. awesome

Nah, it's not "1000 tons."

It's 1000 tonne-force.

Additionally, it's really far up there due to the crappy leverage position. A more appropriate measure is newtons or kilonewtons.

Secondly, he did not do anything that resembles something useful. His answer was in energy.

Finally, it's much closer to 1000 than it is 100, that's for sure.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Right, cause elephants are used to pull over very large, ALIVE, trees with ropes attached at the base, and they do it in a couple of seconds, right?



Here's your elephants, much much higher on the tree, on much smaller trees, with tiny roots, in comparison, pushing trees up in dry soil

http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/28492-natural-born-winners-elephants-strength-video.htm


Also, show your work. I'm willing to bet that your math is not only wrong, but you used incorrect numbers.


As fact, there's no way to properly calculate that feat with any degree of accuracy other than guessing.

Additionally, your "unit" of measure is completely off: we don't want energy, we need newtons.






Nah, but you just tried to pass off elephant strength feats as being comparable, even in the slightest, to what Edward did.




Nah, it's not "1000 tons."

It's 1000 tonne-force.

Additionally, it's really far up there due to the crappy leverage position. A more appropriate measure is newtons or kilonewtons.

Secondly, he did not do anything that resembles something useful. His answer was in energy.

Finally, it's much closer to 1000 than it is 100, that's for sure.
Watch the video again, isn't a very big tree, and elephants are able to, and have, displaced larger trees than your video displays. Sure, remark on leverage, but if you think the extra 5 feet of height an elephant has on Eddie is a difference of nearly a thousand tonnes of force you're delusional.

I did show my work, I found the approx volume of the tree and from there the approx force required to cause critical failure. Maybe you didn't see it? I provided the Newtons, I converted to Joules directly afterward for people familiar with games versus, where it's used as a general way of rating strength feats.

Yes, I guessed, I even said so in my post, but there's simply no way this feat comes close to even class 100+ strength, shit, elephants can move 7 tons with their trunks by admission of your own video. They regularly push trees over using their heads and bulk, pulling one down with it's trunk is not the most effective method available to them. did you some how miss my entire post? Did nothing useful? Lol. Pushing over a tree =/= 1000 tonne force.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
IF that tree is a full meter thick (it's not), and he snapped it near the base (he didn't) this would require 40MPa of stress, pinewood's UTS is 40MPa, so yeah.

Since Pa = Newton per meter squared, and 1 newton = 1 joule that'd be 40 MJ or 8 992 357 pounds of force. Luckily! The tree is not that big. ... And...! Elephants push trees over consistently with their heads, the trees don't break their roots give. Granted the trees are smaller.

IE, the tree should not have snapped before it's roots gave. We can't see the roots but logicly let's just be real, here, even if the vampires do sparkle. The numbers for just pushing a tree over are MUCH less impressive.

Now for a more realistic set of numbers, looking at the tree it's probably about .6-7 of a meter thick, Sooo.

Here's something that happens in nature, a tree grows at too extreme of an angle to support it's own weight. This results in stumps uprooting themselves, not the trees breaking, everyone who's ever been in a forest has seen a stump like this.

Let's assume a 45 degree angle is typicly where the give happens. In a tree this size, *looks again, just eyeballing, guesstimate*

A freezeframe at 0:59 reveals it's /not that big/.

It looks about 7-9 meters and tapers, as trees do. So, to find it's volume:

Base (0.6) x height (8) x width (Pi*r^2) /2.
13.57 M^2

Now if we find the density of soft wood

the density of common softwoods varies from 450 to 640 kg/m3 so, let's go big or go home. 13.57 x 640 kg = 8685.8 kg.

Now, if a tree's hit 45 degrees to fall over, that means it root structure cannot horizontally support 50% of it's weight, approx. Sooo.. /2

4342.9 kg.

9554.46 lbs, or 4.7 tons of force. Equivalent to 2140.19 Newtons, 2.1 Kj. Not very high scale.

Remember this?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Watch the video again, isn't a very big tree, and elephants are able to, and have, displaced larger trees than your video displays. Sure, remark on leverage, but if you think the extra 5 feet of height an elephant has on Eddie is a difference of nearly a thousand tonnes of force you're delusional.

I did show my work, I found the approx volume of the tree and from there the approx force required to cause critical failure. Maybe you didn't see it? I provided the Newtons, I converted to Joules directly afterward for people familiar with games versus, where it's used as a general way of rating strength feats.

Yes, I guessed, I even said so in my post, but there's simply no way this feat comes close to even class 100+ strength, shit, elephants can move 7 tons with their trunks by admission of your own video. They regularly push trees over using their heads and bulk, pulling one down with it's trunk is not the most effective method available to them. did you some how miss my entire post? Did nothing useful? Lol. Pushing over a tree =/= 1000 tonne force.


Remember this?


I just pwned you, hardcore.

Check my last post.

I was right, you were wrong.


I can look through you work and tear it to pieces, if you'd like.

laughcry

*Munches on popcorn*

Hmmm....

Perhaps I should fetch BR to mediate this?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Watch the video again, isn't a very big tree, and elephants are able to, and have, displaced larger trees than your video displays. Sure, remark on leverage, but if you think the extra 5 feet of height an elephant has on Eddie is a difference of nearly a thousand tonnes of force you're delusional.


Yeah, the height difference would be about 5 feet and, yes, the power difference would be astounding. Guess you're not familiar with levers?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I did show my work, I found the approx volume of the tree and from there the approx force required to cause critical failure. Maybe you didn't see it?

I didn't see it.

I looked for it and could not find it. Seriously.

Additionally, you were horribly wrong. Apples to oranges.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I provided the Newtons, I converted to Joules directly afterward for people familiar with games versus, where it's used as a general way of rating strength feats.

K


Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Yes, I guessed, I even said so in my post, but there's simply no way this feat comes close to even class 100+ strength, shit, elephants can move 7 tons with their trunks by admission of your own video. They regularly push trees over using their heads and bulk, pulling one down with it's trunk is not the most effective method available to them. did you some how miss my entire post? Did nothing useful? Lol. Pushing over a tree =/= 1000 tonne force.

And yet, you were horribly wrong in the most direct way possible. Sure, it's not 1000 tonne force, but keep in mind I was just guessing. I DID state it was hundreds if not over a thousand, so I get to fall back on "hundreds" and say that one of my guesses was correct. Granted, it's torque.


Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Remember this?

No.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I just pwned you, hardcore.

Check my last post.

I was right, you were wrong.


I can look through you work and tear it to pieces, if you'd like. Oh,look. Your last post which PROVES that uprooting a tree verticly, which is harder to do than horizontally, requires less than 100 tons of force? Yeah, you sure pwned me. haermm

Go ahead, no matter what you do to my work, it's a guesstimate, and one that outlines what your own post said a moment ago:

Eddie boy isn't class 100+

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
laughcry

*Munches on popcorn*

Hmmm....

Perhaps I should fetch BR to mediate this? BR thought Herc was into petajoules. >=( I will not have him mediate for me.

but sure, go get him, see if he agrees with 100+ ton tree pushing.

He fully admitted that he used the wrong unit, give him a break. You did it too.

Yay!

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He fully admitted that he used the wrong unit, give him a break. You did it too.

Yay! My only error was I forgot escape velocity. :c

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Oh,look. Your last post which PROVES that uprooting a tree verticly, which is harder to do than horizontally, requires less than 100 tons of force? Yeah, you sure pwned me. haermm

Go ahead, no matter what you do to my work, it's a guesstimate, and one that outlines what your own post said a moment ago:

Eddie boy isn't class 100+


Wrong. Doing it horizontally is about 5 times as hard.

Eddie boy is calls 100+. That goes for all of the other twivamp haters.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
IF that tree is a full meter thick (it's not), and he snapped it near the base (he didn't) this would require 40MPa of stress, pinewood's UTS is 40MPa, so yeah.

Since Pa = Newton per meter squared, and 1 newton = 1 joule that'd be 40 MJ or 8 992 357 pounds of force. Luckily! The tree is not that big. ... And...! Elephants push trees over consistently with their heads, the trees don't break their roots give. Granted the trees are smaller.

IE, the tree should not have snapped before it's roots gave. We can't see the roots but logicly let's just be real, here, even if the vampires do sparkle. The numbers for just pushing a tree over are MUCH less impressive.

Now for a more realistic set of numbers, looking at the tree it's probably about .6-7 of a meter thick, Sooo.

Here's something that happens in nature, a tree grows at too extreme of an angle to support it's own weight. This results in stumps uprooting themselves, not the trees breaking, everyone who's ever been in a forest has seen a stump like this.

Let's assume a 45 degree angle is typicly where the give happens. In a tree this size, *looks again, just eyeballing, guesstimate*

A freezeframe at 0:59 reveals it's /not that big/.

It looks about 7-9 meters and tapers, as trees do. So, to find it's volume:

Base (0.6) x height (8) x width (Pi*r^2) /2.
13.57 M^2

Now if we find the density of soft wood

the density of common softwoods varies from 450 to 640 kg/m3 so, let's go big or go home. 13.57 x 640 kg = 8685.8 kg.

Now, if a tree's hit 45 degrees to fall over, that means it root structure cannot horizontally support 50% of it's weight, approx. Sooo.. /2

4342.9 kg.

9554.46 lbs, or 4.7 tons of force. Equivalent to 2140.19 Newtons, 2.1 Kj. Not very high scale.


I agree with your mass, there abouts. But it's still an incorrect measure, as the research shows.


First, here is the link to the thread in which I estimated the mass of the tree, which, for me, did more than enough to prove my point that he was a 100+ class beause he just had to push it over and exert enough force to do so, if we just use the mass of the tree, alone. Proving how much force would be required because of the roots would be useless, at that point, because we only need the mass to prove AROUND the mass of a tree.

Here is that posting:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12877875& amp;highlight=tree+forumid%3A102+userid%3A66591#po
st12877875



So, I used the diameter of the tree at about 1 meter (3 feet.) as seen here:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z238/dadudemon/tree.jpg


Next, I used a density of about .72 (or 720, depending on how you prefer your volume).

Then I used the radius to measure it's volume based on a height of 25 (originally, I used 35 meters, but that's too tall, so I'll change it) meters, or about 80 feet.


You can get your answer to this, easily, by using the "cone" formula because it eventually tappers off into nothing, but it does NOT take into account the branches, which was still "water-under-the-bridge" at this point, because we just needed to show that the mass of the tree approaches 100 tons without getting into the petty forces required to tear the roots and uproot the tree at the same time.


So here is the volume:

6.54 m3


Just in case you don't believe that number, here is a quick calculator:

http://www.treeworld.info/treesurfaceareavolumecalculator.html


4708.8 Kg

Or 4.7 tonnes or about 5.2 tons. I added in about 5% more mass for the branches. So that's about 5.4 tons.


I do not know how I got to 73 tons. In fact, I may have done the math in my head.



Edit = Looking back, I know exactly what I did wrong: I was off by a factor of ten because i put the tree height at 35 meters.

35 meters = 9.16 m3

9.16 m3 * 720 = 6.6.2 tonnes = 7.3 tons

Somewhere along the lines, I was off by a factor of ten and I don't know where I went wrong.

Not a big deal, in hindsite, because it was not the best measure. If it WERE closer to 73 tons, yeah, it would have been a reall good measure to prove that he's well above class 100.


Since we have the actually torque required, there abouts, to uproot a tree horizontally, it's really a moot point: 5 times that amount used to vertically uproot and tree stumps of about the same size (radius of .61 meters all the way down to .32 meters) which is about 60 kNm. Horizontally is much harder so he's definitely several magnitudes of 100 ton lifter.




Let it be known throughout all of the MVF that Edward is definitely a 100+ class character. Granted, not that far about like say...Thor is.

It makes sense, now, why Bella was sayng cars are like styrofoam to the vampires: exerting 300+kNm of torque is almost easy (Edward pushed it over pretty darn quickly. People like Felix, Newborns, and Emmett are supposed to be much stronger than Edward. In fact, Edward is not very strong for a vampire: his strength is lots of speed.)

Jesus Christ...

Bewbz.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I agree with your mass, there abouts. But it's still an incorrect measure, as the research shows.


First, here is the link to the thread in which I estimated the mass of the tree, which, for me, did more than enough to prove my point that he was a 100+ class beause he just had to push it over and exert enough force to do so, if we just use the mass of the tree, alone. Proving how much force would be required because of the roots would be useless, at that point, because we only need the mass to prove AROUND the mass of a tree.

Here is that posting:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12877875& amp;highlight=tree+forumid%3A102+userid%3A66591#po
st12877875



So, I used the diameter of the tree at about 1 meter (3 feet.) as seen here:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z238/dadudemon/tree.jpg


Next, I used a density of about .72 (or 720, depending on how you prefer your volume).

Then I used the radius to measure it's volume based on a height of 25 (originally, I used 35 meters, but that's too tall, so I'll change it) meters, or about 80 feet.


You can get your answer to this, easily, by using the "cone" formula because it eventually tappers off into nothing, but it does NOT take into account the branches, which was still "water-under-the-bridge" at this point, because we just needed to show that the mass of the tree approaches 100 tons without getting into the petty forces required to tear the roots and uproot the tree at the same time.


So here is the volume:

6.54 m3


Just in case you don't believe that number, here is a quick calculator:

http://www.treeworld.info/treesurfaceareavolumecalculator.html


4708.8 Kg

Or 4.7 tonnes or about 5.2 tons. I added in about 5% more mass for the branches. So that's about 5.4 tons.


I do not know how I got to 73 tons. In fact, I may have done the math in my head.



Edit = Looking back, I know exactly what I did wrong: I was off by a factor of ten because i put the tree height at 35 meters.

35 meters = 9.16 m3

9.16 m3 * 720 = 6.6.2 tonnes = 7.3 tons

Somewhere along the lines, I was off by a factor of ten and I don't know where I went wrong.

Not a big deal, in hindsite, because it was not the best measure. If it WERE closer to 73 tons, yeah, it would have been a reall good measure to prove that he's well above class 100.


Since we have the actually torque required, there abouts, to uproot a tree horizontally, it's really a moot point: 5 times that amount used to vertically uproot and tree stumps of about the same size (radius of .61 meters all the way down to .32 meters) which is about 60 kNm. Horizontally is much harder so he's definitely several magnitudes of 100 ton lifter.




Let it be known throughout all of the MVF that Edward is definitely a 100+ class character. Granted, not that far about like say...Thor is.

It makes sense, now, why Bella was sayng cars are like styrofoam to the vampires: exerting 300+kNm of torque is almost easy (Edward pushed it over pretty darn quickly. People like Felix, Newborns, and Emmett are supposed to be much stronger than Edward. In fact, Edward is not very strong for a vampire: his strength is lots of speed.)


ITA

My god, what have I wrought........

Originally posted by Nephthys
My god, what have I wrought........

I don't think you did anything wrong: I think that ScreamPaste agree on the mass of the tree...there abouts.

I did find a website that talks about the lateral force exerted on stumps, however...so that discussion is fairly "done" at this point.


But I'd like to point out.... I WAS RIGHT!* WEEEEEEEE!





*Partially. I said that it was in the hundreds...possibly over 1000. It turns out that it is just the hundreds.

I really doubt that. Trees get blown over in storms and shit. Storms are not class 100+.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I really doubt that. Trees get blown over in storms and shit. Storms are not class 100+. Well, they are, just not all in one place. Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't think you did anything wrong: I think that ScreamPaste agree on the mass of the tree...there abouts.

I did find a website that talks about the lateral force exerted on stumps, however...so that discussion is fairly "done" at this point.


But I'd like to point out.... I WAS RIGHT!* WEEEEEEEE!





*Partially. I said that it was in the hundreds...possibly over 1000. It turns out that it is just the hundreds.
We agree on general mass, I think you're over estimating it, but I still don't get where you make the massive jump to achieve a critical failure point of hundreds of tons of force. All it takes is a tree to grow at a (particularly) bad angle to fall over, I've got a bunch of shit to do today but I'll come back and go over the numbers again at some point.
The force required to uproot a stump horizontally is /quite/ different from an actual tree for several reasons.
1. The leverage you love so much to go on aboot.
2. The weight of the tree itself plays a factor in uprooting itself horizontally.
3. Trees are designed to fight gravity, and in large groups, IE, forests, the natural way you tend to find the things, have little to fear from wind or other horizontal forces.

Looking at the shot of the tree as it falls shows that it is not 1m at the base. <_<

From the stump.
Edward's not /that/ short.

You are clearly aware it takes less force to do so with an actual tree present because you've gone on about leverage before, really, the only thing to be laid to rest here is the exact way that leverage would scale.

If 5 feet of lever can make that significant of a different that your math does not imply super-elephants I'll merrily concede, but I doubt it'll happen. I'll come back to it in a few days most likely, though. Stuff to do. --->Bender--->concert--->Pursue female I have no chance with ----> THEN internet math.

Said female might think internet math is hot. awesome

not reading through 6 pages of comments...

Edward loses and there's no way you can say I'm one of the Twi-haters 'cause i've gone to bat for the gay vamps in pretty much every one of RJ's spite threads.

flight + lasers = dead vamp.

EDIT: lol @ the silly calculations in this thread.

It's only one vampire. And Edward has to get close sooner or later.
That's when he gets cut into chunks by the lasers.

I would also like to point out that if it take more than a hundred tons of force to push over a tree, something is going to give... Likely the hand going straight through the tree...

Originally posted by Robtard
http://thinkmoult.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/SarcMark.jpg

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Well, they are, just not all in one place.

Indeed.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
We agree on general mass, I think you're over estimating it, but I still don't get where you make the massive jump to achieve a critical failure point of hundreds of tons of force.

First of all, I owe you an apology for my insulting comments. You do not have to call someone "stupid" or "buttface" to actually insult someone.

I posted an image of the tree to support my mass and I explained how I over estimated by a factor of 10 at one point. Still does not matter very much, at all.

To the second point, I addressed that already and posted a link to an academic paper. I cannot make it anymore clear.


Originally posted by ScreamPaste
All it takes is a tree to grow at a (particularly) bad angle to fall over, I've got a bunch of shit to do today but I'll come back and go over the numbers again at some point.

While I agree, this does not apply to the situation at hand. It was a vertical tree. The "numbers" cannot be faulted because they came from a source outside of both you and I: real academic work in excavation.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The force required to uproot a stump horizontally is /quite/ different from an actual tree for several reasons.

No, not at all. In fact, the forces can be considered greater due to the way the horizontal pulls occur:

1. They are actually at an angle and not directly horizontal to the stump.

a) This means that better leverage can occur with the tree.

2. The tree's mass has to be affected, as well, for the initial effort.

a) Because of that, the initial effort required is greater than horizontal tractor pull.

3. After the tree is moved, it becomes much easier due to several factors.

a) Loosening of the soil.
b) breaking of some of the roots.
c) The mass of the tree lending support to the felling of the tree due to the mass assisting with the help of gravity in breaking the roots and freeing itself from the soil.

4. Their is an even bigger reason why his efforts are harder than the excavators: it is very cold and has been very cold in that area for a while and the ground would be frozen, making it much more difficult to break it free of the soil, not to mention the roots.

5. It takes the tractors and cranes much much longer to do their uprooting than it did Edward, meaning, he's applying much more force per unit time.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
1. The leverage you love so much to go on aboot.

Addressed and this point is irrelevant.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
2. The weight of the tree itself plays a factor in uprooting itself horizontally.

Address this, already.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
3. Trees are designed to fight gravity, and in large groups, IE, forests, the natural way you tend to find the things, have little to fear from wind or other horizontal forces.

I believe you have that opposite.

Trees are "designed" to resist falling over which is why the scientist said that, on average, 5 times as much effort has to be applied to the horizontal pulls compared to vertical ones.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Looking at the shot of the tree as it falls shows that it is not 1m at the base. <_< .

Looking at the shot it's probably a bit larger than 1 meter in diameter, at the base. Keep in mind, he's prolly about 4 feet up on the tree.



Originally posted by ScreamPaste
From the stump.
Edward's not /that/ short. .

He's 6'1" and bent over quite a bet with a lean. He is also not applying his hands where the top of his head is; he's applying them around where the bottom of his face, is. It's about 4' or less.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You are clearly aware it takes less force to do so with an actual tree present because you've gone on about leverage before, really, the only thing to be laid to rest here is the exact way that leverage would scale.


"The forces can be considered greater due to the way the horizontal pulls occur:

1. They are actually at an angle and not directly horizontal to the stump.

a) This means that better leverage can occur with the tree.

2. The tree's mass has to be affected, as well, for the initial effort.

a) Because of that, the initial effort required is greater than horizontal tractor pull.

3. After the tree is moved, it becomes much easier due to several factors.

a) Loosening of the soil.
b) breaking of some of the roots.
c) The mass of the tree lending support to the felling of the tree due to the mass assisting with the help of gravity in breaking the roots and freeing itself from the soil.

4. Their is an even bigger reason why his efforts are harder than the excavators: it is very cold and has been very cold in that area for a while and the ground would be frozen, making it much more difficult to break it free of the soil, not to mention the roots."

5. It takes the tractors and cranes much much longer to do their uprooting than it did Edward, meaning, he's applying much more force per unit time.

If you want to get as pedantic as possible about it, 4 feet = 1.22 meters.

Average vertical force required to uproot trees that have a smaller mass and are also not in frozen soil: 60kNm.

Required force for a semi-horizontal pull: 5 times greater for trees in that same diameter range.

Edward's tree falls into the top-end of that range.


5*60kNm = 300 kNm.

Solve for force in the lever formula:

300000 Nm = f*1.2192

f = 245901.64

245901.64 = 245.90 kNm

That still does not take into consideration that the ground is frozen, it takes much longer to pull up the stumps with the machines; and the mass of the tree makes it more difficult, initially, to move cause of a stupid little physics property known as "inertia".

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
If 5 feet of lever can make that significant of a different that your math does not imply super-elephants I'll merrily concede, but I doubt it'll happen. I'll come back to it in a few days most likely, though. Stuff to do. --->Bender--->concert--->Pursue female I have no chance with ----> THEN internet math.

5 feet? I strongly disagree based on a little test I did. I'm 3" shorter than Robert Pattison and my hands come up to about the 5' marker when I put them at about face level when standing straight up. He's not standing straight up, though; he's leaned over quite a bit. Four feet is a much more accurate measure. I actually want to say it's less than that because I'm hitting around the 3'6" mark when I lean forward and place my hands at about the same position as Edward.


Originally posted by ares834
I would also like to point out that if it take more than a hundred tons of force to push over a tree, something is going to give... Likely the hand going straight through the tree...

Wah? He's going to stick his hand through 3 feet of green wood (some of it frozen)? The APA would disagree with you.

Just guessing, but the highlighted areas on the pic below, wouldn't they be vulnerable if Ed gets ahold of IM? I can't imagine Ed having a problem ripping off IM's arms.



http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv341/jedibeastie2/IronManarmor1200x9001.jpg


Also, according to the OP, they are fighting in a forest, which means IM must land to engage Ed. I can't see him targeting a fast mover like Ed through the forest canopy.

Iron Monger > Edward in strength. While that tree-knocking Eddy did is most impressive, it not like he tore his way out of the ground which consisted of steel, dirt and concrete as Iron Monger did.

BTW, here's a Dodge with a 12V Cummins 5.9 Liter diesel (about 215hp and 440lb-ft), yes, the stump is smaller than Eddy's.

_mqiq5xubIA

Not an answer.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Not an answer.

Yeah, it kind of was:

The Iron Man suit (which is stronger/tougher version in IM2) while at low-low powers did well against Iron Monger and wasn't just ripped apart like a tin-can.

So Edward (who isn't as strong as Monger) is going to have a hard time trying to get through its durability.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, it kind of was:

The Iron Man suit (which is stronger/tougher version in IM2) while at low-low powers did well against Iron Monger and wasn't just ripped apart like a tin-can.

So Edward (who isn't as strong as Monger) is going to have a hard time trying to get through its durability.

Did Monger TRY to rip IM apart?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Did Monger TRY to rip IM apart?

No but he crushed his helmet with one hand.

Originally posted by Robtard
Iron Monger > Edward in strength. While that tree-knocking Eddy did is most impressive, it not like he tore his way out of the ground which consisted of steel, dirt and concrete as Iron Monger did.

BTW, here's a Dodge with a 12V Cummins 5.9 Liter diesel (about 215hp and 440lb-ft), yes, the stump is smaller than Eddy's.

_mqiq5xubIA


Dead stump is much easier to pull out than an alive one which is what that study was on about: excavators cannot wait for the stump to dry out.


I may have to agree with you on Ironmonger, though. I forgot about the concrete floor feat. However, I'm still not too sure about that. I found a video on youtube that talked about wood being stronger, pound for pound, than solid industrial steel. I digress, though, as it only withstood 7000 pound force (7000 pound force is what the force is of weight due to gravity...basically, it is simulating 7000 lbs sitting on something.) Hmm. Well, it's hard to say, but, I'll have to give it to Ironmonger UNLESS we can figure out Ironmonger's mass. His mass significantly helped him punch through that. To what extent, I don't know.

STILL...I appreciate you being objectivity about this and not jumping on the Twi-hate bandwagon. It's easy to hate twilight...and those are definitely good reasons. I would like it if people had a bit more objectivity.


Edit - RJ made a good point about the whips whiplash had. It explains why those whips didn't rip right through Ironman but yet his suit isn't very durable beyond titanium and gold.

And those reasons are?

Originally posted by Pwned
And those reasons are?
Nah. It's not my idea so I can't steal it. I have this thing about not stealing other's ideas.

Alright, ask for permission to use them. I wont believe that until i know those reasons.

Originally posted by Pwned
Alright, ask for permission to use them. I wont believe that until i know those reasons.

I'll PM it to you.

Uh kay