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no stare for Gorgon

Originally posted by King Castle
no stare for Gorgon shaw

lol, please, Shaw ends up as mince, Gorgon with a sword takes Shaw apart. No sword just makes this a retarded thread. So i'll assume Gorgon gets a sword.

I hope your not inferring that Gorgon with a sword is going to matter when Shaw can just absorb the kinetic energy from the sword attack and render it useless just like he does with bullets.

Shaw takes this handily

Originally posted by SasuOna
I hope your not inferring that Gorgon with a sword is going to matter when Shaw can just absorb the kinetic energy from the sword attack and render it useless just like he does with bullets.

Shaw takes this handily

Hulk is bullet proof, but he can be cut. Tell me what im missing with Sebastian Shaw. Wolverine has cut Sebastian Shaw iinm

And his blade is magical anyway.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Hulk is bullet proof, but he can be cut. Tell me what im missing with Sebastian Shaw. Wolverine has cut Sebastian Shaw iinm iinm?

Originally posted by King Castle
iinm?

if im not mistaken

Both him and Daken did.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Both him and Daken did.

So is this the truth? Originally posted by SasuOna
I hope your not inferring that Gorgon with a sword is going to matter when Shaw can just absorb the kinetic energy from the sword attack and render it useless just like he does with bullets.

Shaw takes this handily

or does that shit not fly?

shaw can and has been cut. no where near the damage soak to avoid getting sliced up. doubt he'd even hit gorgon before he was decapitated or pierced through the heart.

i made this thread b/c i was curious to see if people thought Shaw could be cut cause i wasnt too sure

Originally posted by King Castle
i made this thread b/c i was curious to see if people thought Shaw could be cut cause i wasnt too sure

Originally posted by King Castle
i made this thread b/c i was curious to see if people thought Shaw could be cut cause i wasnt too sure

He can, he has, and Gorgon with a blade would rail this dude. Gorgons blunt force trauma durability is insane enough to tangle with Shaw, get in close and take the dudes eyes out. Not that he would be tagged anyway.

How is Shaw getting cut not like Flash or supes getting tagged by characters w/ near-human reflexes? It happens on panel, but is clearly against his power-set. The amount of kinetic energy in a knife thrust from characters like Wolvrine or Gorgon is insignificant next to a fall from an airplane, a full-strength blast from cyclops, or a full-charge from gambit. Not only that, but EVEN if one accepts panel-evidence that he can be cut (which I think we should not), there is no evidence that this was even a factor in those fights. Wolverine ran away rather than face Shaw, because he was outgunned and he knew it.

Shaw wins.

He can't win this, best he could hope for would be a stalemate.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He can't win this, best he could hope for would be a stalemate. isnt gorgon sword magic?

Originally posted by Simbon
How is Shaw getting cut not like Flash or supes getting tagged by characters w/ near-human reflexes? It happens on panel, but is clearly against his power-set. The amount of kinetic energy in a knife thrust from characters like Wolvrine or Gorgon is insignificant next to a fall from an airplane, a full-strength blast from cyclops, or a full-charge from gambit. Not only that, but EVEN if one accepts panel-evidence that he can be cut (which I think we should not), there is no evidence that this was even a factor in those fights. Wolverine ran away rather than face Shaw, because he was outgunned and he knew it.

Shaw wins.

A punch is not the same as a stab! His skin is not impenetrable, want an example?

Black Panthers Vibranium mesh suit, a suit designed to absorb kinetic force, the suit can take an IronFist special, but the suit can still be cut. It's a different type of force. Your skin has natural absorption qualities. The mass of a fist spread across your cheek at 3 miles an hour wouldn't bypass your flesh/muscles..but a needle at 3mph would. There are abundant examples of this through out comicdom dude, even from heavy hitters like Hulk. In no way shape or form has it ever been implied that Sebastian shaws skin was impenetrable. Being thrown through a wall takes blunt force trauma durability, totally different from peircing durability.

Originally posted by King Castle
isnt gorgon sword magic?

Shaw absorbs magic uhuh

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Shaw absorbs magic uhuh

In Soviet Russia, Magic absorbs Shaw

His sword being magic is supposed to mean something? It doesn't break the laws of physics last I looked at anything Gorgon has done so yeah it still need kinetic energy to do any type of damage to Shaw.

Wolverine cutting Shaw is like Spider-man vs Firelord I'm not surprised at all that you would bring something so throughly impossible up. For the record if Wolverine ever broke his skin with his claws we would know Shaw isn't using his powers anymore.

do you have anything to support that opinion other than it just being your opinion, any proof, comic reference?

anyways... to anyone who might know.
i heard that Donald Pierce stabbed Shaw back in the day in the Hellfire club which is why Shaw had to leave and put Sunspot in charge due to how badly injured he was, is this true?

does anybody know?

well, i suppose if you wanted to get technical, we could talk about the limit to shaw's powers. he has been shown to burn out. he has a limit. the amount of pressure concentrated into the tips of logan's claws (his strength and force focussed in such a tiny spot would create a massive amount of KE) could simply be too much for him to absorb. that would mean it wasn't pis. blunt trauma though is usually treated differently, so i disagree it was pis.

Originally posted by SasuOna

Wolverine cutting Shaw is like Spider-man vs Firelord

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n100/Juk3n/wantedgtfo.gif

If Wolverine ever stabbed him he would have had to try and fail multiple times before he would start to hurt him like what Collosus did. every time they have fought its never been that long because Wolverine always runs away from him so its definitely BS.

Its PIS if he just walks up to him and cuts him when hes been shown to tank bullets and cutting damage before and absorb that energy. Things like friction actually give him power so unless you want to say that cutting damage is void of all friction its going to be PIS.

Daken stabbed him in the back

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Both him and Daken did. during that ms sinister storyline? can you post scans?

can some one answer the legitimacy of Donald pierce stabbing Shaw?

some one who has read the story, pls.

Originally posted by 753
during that ms sinister storyline? can you post scans?

Original Sin crossover. Yes, Miss Sinister was in it.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7742/xmenlegacy218011ht0.th.jpg

I'm not sure if I uploaded Daken one, don't feel like browsing through my account at the moment. I can post it later if you want.

I actually read the entire crossover and not just the Wolverine issues unlike some of you

Daken never even penetrated his skin with his Claws which is why he had to kick him out a window which still failed to hurt him since we know he tanked an explosion in the same issue he fought Wolverine.
Wolverine couldn't do anything to him either which is why he had to cut the lights off and run from Shaw.

Heres the Wolverine fight
http://i.imgur.com/ew4gQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qc6ej.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cCQxz.jpg

and heres Daken failing to penetrate his skin supported by the fact that he drew no blood and had to kick him out a window.
http://i.imgur.com/d2ztW.jpg

Nice phail. Yes, I totally see Daken not penetrating Shaw's back in that scan.

If he pierced his skin Wheres the blood?
Not like like matters since in your fevor to skew everything towards Wolverine and his supporting characters you probably failed to notice Wolverine failing to draw blood in his fight as well even though he snuck up from behind just like Daken.

But if Daken did cut him how come you want to use that as a legit showing but not Wolverine? Even though you were arguing that the Wolverine showing wasn't PIS? Why are you attributing Daken's showings to Wolverine even though on panel evidence contradicts this?

but didnt Logan also beat him off panel when he went back for chuck?pr1983

No he didn't beat him off panel he ran away which is how he caught up to Daken.

Originally posted by SasuOna
No he didn't beat him off panel he ran away which is how he caught up to Daken. do you have a scan showing that or is it your assumption due to Shaw no longer being present while Wolvie was with Xavier?

Originally posted by King Castle
do you have a scan showing that or is it your assumption due to Shaw no longer being present while Wolvie was with Xavier?

I'll forget about why we don't take off panel showings seriously for a second and humor you.
How would Wolverine off panel him when we see Shaw later in the next issue like nothings happened to him?
In fact if anything its Wolverine who looks worse for wear when he catches up to Daken suggesting that he did in fact run away when he turned the lights off.

Originally posted by SasuOna
If he pierced his skin Wheres the blood?
Not like like matters since in your fevor to skew everything towards Wolverine and his supporting characters you probably failed to notice Wolverine failing to draw blood in his fight as well even though he snuck up from behind just like Daken.

But if Daken did cut him how come you want to use that as a legit showing but not Wolverine? Even though you were arguing that the Wolverine showing wasn't PIS? Why are you attributing Daken's showings to Wolverine even though on panel evidence contradicts this?

facepalm

You're not worth my time. Look again at the scans, go away and don't forget to take your omega level fail with you.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, i suppose if you wanted to get technical, we could talk about the limit to shaw's powers. he has been shown to burn out. he has a limit. the amount of pressure concentrated into the tips of logan's claws (his strength and force focussed in such a tiny spot would create a massive amount of KE) could simply be too much for him to absorb. that would mean it wasn't pis. blunt trauma though is usually treated differently, so i disagree it was pis.
cosigned. I been saying this for a long time. Blunt truama and piercing arnt the same.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
cosigned. I been saying this for a long time. Blunt truama and piercing arnt the same.

It's merely a question of the area of distribution - there is not a qualitative difference here, and even if we believe that Shaw's powers work by surface area, it is foolish to imagine that even with the small size of wolverine's claws that they pack more of a punch than warpath, colossus, cyclops, etc. Shaw being cut by logan is as PIS as Daken being able to kick him.

I agree with Simbon, he seems smart.

comic characters have varying degree of invulnerability. which is why we have brunt/blunt, energy, piercing durability b/c no one is the same nor always immune to said attacks.

you have guys that can survive a nuke but get stabbed, shot, punched and vice versa.

Yea, it's stupid.

I blame Wolverine and his fans.

Mainly Stilt.

Ban him.

Originally posted by Simbon
It's merely a question of the area of distribution - there is not a qualitative difference here, and even if we believe that Shaw's powers work by surface area, it is foolish to imagine that even with the small size of wolverine's claws that they pack more of a punch than warpath, colossus, cyclops, etc. Shaw being cut by logan is as PIS as Daken being able to kick him.
Your taking the power far to literally. He does not absorb energy perfectly. Your basing his powers off the priniciable that they work and absorb all and any kenetic energy against him, which is not how it works. If that was the case whenever he get hit he would not move, or even feel it effects. However he constantly gets knock back by punches. That becuase he still gets hit and he not absorbing the kenetic energy 100% efficiently.

As it is with almost anyone with his powers guildo,maverick ect.

Originally posted by Mindset
I agree with Simbon, he seems smart.

Hear hear.

Dum Dum is Wolverine fanboy who wants to ignore on panel evidence that Wolverine can't cut Shaw but then wants to assume Daken stabbing him(which did nothing) isn't PIS for whatever warped reason and apply it to Wolverine when we see that Wolverine can't cut him already? Wolverine didn't even make Shaw bleed when he cut him with his claws. In case you didn't notice Shaw has a red knot for his pony tail which is what Wolverine cut and is what hes holding while Wolverine tells Prof to run. Once again you are willfully misrepresenting what happens on panel to skew showings toward Wolverine.

Does that make sense? I can even post scans showing Shaw's abilities are to absorb all kinetic energy not some imaginary durability power that you made up to support your argument.

We seriously need to start banning some of these trolls

I can only guess the nonsense sasu is saying. I glad he on ignore, it more a bother to deal with then anything. What he says 99% of the time is utter rubbish.

Gorgon has a high degree of superhuman combat speed.

TP that comes in handy in battlefield, reading moves, distracting opponents, etc.

Superb skill.

Magical sword.

--
Shaw gets killed here.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Dum Dum is Wolverine fanboy who wants to ignore on panel evidence that Wolverine can't cut Shaw but then wants to assume Daken stabbing him(which did nothing) isn't PIS for whatever warped reason and apply it to Wolverine when we see that Wolverine can't cut him already? Wolverine didn't even make Shaw bleed when he cut him with his claws. In case you didn't notice Shaw has a red knot for his pony tail which is what Wolverine cut and is what hes holding while Wolverine tells Prof to run. Once again you are willfully misrepresenting what happens on panel to skew showings toward Wolverine.

Does that make sense? I can even post scans showing Shaw's abilities are to absorb all kinetic energy not some imaginary durability power that you made up to support your argument.

We seriously need to start banning some of these trolls

Ah, I did not know that about Dum Dum. I will leave it at that, then.

And your still trolling, ignoring what Shaw's powers are, making up fanfiction to apply to him, and still lying about what happened when Iv'e already posted the fight.

Originally posted by Simbon
Ah, I did not know that about Dum Dum. I will leave it at that, then.
lol dont listen to his nonsense. He perhaps the least respected poster on this board. He from another sight, and more or less comes on here to troll.


But if you want to use his nonsense as a cop out form having a real debate, then have fun with that.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Gorgon has a high degree of superhuman combat speed.

TP that comes in handy in battlefield, reading moves, distracting opponents, etc.

Superb skill.

Magical sword.

--
Shaw gets killed here.

Emma's TP fails against Shaw; Shaw also has superhuman combat speed and superb skill. Nothing about Gorgon's blade that I've seen suggests that it's a game-changer.

who would tire 1st.. even if Shaw could take the slices from a mystic sword who to stop Gorgon who is some undead zombie with regen from waiting him out and exhausting him. afterall Gorgon has the superhuman speed to out react him and keep his distance.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
lol dont listen to his nonsense. He perhaps the least respected poster on this board. He from another sight, and more or less comes on here to troll.


But if you want to use his nonsense as a cop out form having a real debate, then have fun with that.



SasuOna is a joke, not a poster. Everybody 'cept for new posters realizes that, don't even bother to react.

Still not explaining how Wolverine can cut shaw when we have on panel evidence that he can't.

You won't even address the fact that you made up some nonsense that Shaw has superhuman durability that doesn't apply to him absorbing all kinetic energy.

Originally posted by Simbon
Emma's TP fails against Shaw; Shaw also has superhuman combat speed and superb skill. Nothing about Gorgon's blade that I've seen suggests that it's a game-changer.

Emma's TP failed against Wolverine, too. And Gorgon's one worked fine.

Trust me, Gorgon is much faster and arguably more skilled than Logan himself.

True, we need some feats for Grasscutter. Common sense dictates it wouldn't have much trouble piercing Shaw, though.

Originally posted by Simbon
Emma's TP fails against Shaw; Shaw also has superhuman combat speed and superb skill. Nothing about Gorgon's blade that I've seen suggests that it's a game-changer.
evidence please.


his combat speed is nothing compared to gorgons, nor is his skill.



I dont think you have read much of anything on gorgon, which is likely have your problem............


Gorgons sword is grass cutter, you know the perfect blade forged by gods to kill other gods. Used by Ares son to kill him.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
lol dont listen to his nonsense. He perhaps the least respected poster on this board. He from another sight, and more or less comes on here to troll.


But if you want to use his nonsense as a cop out form having a real debate, then have fun with that.

I don't know anything about Sasu, but I do know that what he said is consistent with your posts on this thread. The fact of the matter is that all evidence suggests that the only people who should tangle with shaw are those with HUGE energy outputs, like Magneto, Hulk, etc who can overload him.

Emma and Prof X are by far better telapaths then Gorgon so don't make up some nonsense or ABC logic that because it works on Wolverine it must means hes superior to them.

Honestly Dum Dum and Stilt just stop trolling this thread

Originally posted by Simbon
I don't know anything about Sasu, but I do know that what he said is consistent with your posts on this thread. The fact of the matter is that all evidence suggests that the only people who should tangle with shaw are those with HUGE energy outputs, like Magneto, Hulk, etc who can overload him.
Consistent with my post? becuase I think shaw can be damage by piercing attacks which he has been? interesting.



None of those individuals use piercing damage, how on earth is it relevent. Also Hulk and magneto would soundly beat shaw in a fight, so I not sure why you bring up two individual who are nothing like gorgon and who would beat shaws ass into the gound.......thank you mister irrelevent.




No not all evidence suggest any such nonsense. Pierce when trying to take shaw out, used piercing weapons to assist. Pierce is one individual who knows shaw better then almost anyone. Interesting no that he wuld use piercing weapons instead of blunt.

Pierce, Daken, Logan. And that still ain't enough?

And your still lying about Wolverine being able to stab him and have brought no evidence to support this but go ahead keep ignoring the fight I already posted in this thread contradicting your entire argument.

Shaw absorbs the kinetic energy from bullets,stab wounds,punches from collosus.
He also has mental defenses that can keep both emma and Xavier out of his mind.

Originally posted by Simbon
I don't know anything about Sasu, but I do know that what he said is consistent with your posts on this thread. The fact of the matter is that all evidence suggests that the only people who should tangle with shaw are those with HUGE energy outputs, like Magneto, Hulk, etc who can overload him. so if i post a scan showing otherwise you will concede?

Raven believed she could kill Shaw with a bullet and she is fully aware of what his power really is.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/65096/1258299-shaw_super.jpg

again just b/c he can absorb kinetic energy at doesnt mean he can safely do it with piercing damage due to how comic rules tend to work.. now i asked about Pierce who beat the snot out of Shaw using piercing damage and no one seemed to answer that. so i ask again does anyone know what happen between Shaw and pierce?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Consistent with my post? becuase I think shaw can be damage by piercing attacks which he has been? interesting.



None of those individuals use piercing damage, how on earth is it relevent. Also Hulk and magneto would soundly beat shaw in a fight, so I not sure why you bring up two individual who are nothing like gorgon and who would beat shaws ass into the gound.......thank you mister irrelevent.




No not all evidence suggest any such nonsense. Pierce when trying to take shaw out, used piercing weapons to assist. Pierce is one individual who knows shaw better then almost anyone. Interesting no that he wuld use piercing weapons instead of blunt.

Your condescension is misplaced, as the fact that Magneto and Hulk ARE radically different from Gorgon, and WOULD beat him into the ground is precisely my point. Now try and put two and two together.

Originally posted by King Castle
so if i post a scan showing otherwise you will concede?

Raven believed she could kill Shaw with a bullet and she is fully aware of what his power really is.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/65096/1258299-shaw_super.jpg

again just b/c he can absorb kinetic energy at doesnt mean he can safely do it with piercing damage due to how comic rules tend to work.. now i asked about Pierce who beat the snot out of Shaw using piercing damage and no one seemed to answer that. so i ask again does anyone know what happen between Shaw and pierce?

This basically confirms that the bullets wouldn't have killed him what are you talking about?
So if I show you the fight with Pierce does that magically not make it PIS all of a sudden?

Originally posted by King Castle
so if i post a scan showing otherwise you will concede?

Raven believed she could kill Shaw with a bullet and she is fully aware of what his power really is.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/65096/1258299-shaw_super.jpg

again just b/c he can absorb kinetic energy at doesnt mean he can safely do it with piercing damage due to how comic rules tend to work.. now i asked about Pierce who beat the snot out of Shaw using piercing damage and no one seemed to answer that. so i ask again does anyone know what happen between Shaw and pierce?

The scan redounds to my argument, unless killing people with bullets and knives are no longer "conventional tactics."

even if we want to believe that shaw can absorb the kinetic force of the cut which i believe he can, he still starts off at base lvl human strength and durability, he would still be cut due to his durability not reaching it's high end and absorbing the minimal kinetic energy providing from the slice to hurt Gorgon.

Originally posted by King Castle
even if we want to believe that shaw can absorb the kinetic force of the cut which i believe he can, he still starts off at base lvl human strength and durability, he would still be cut due to his durability not reaching it's high end and absorbing the minimal kinetic energy providing from the slice to hurt Gorgon.

If this was stated in the stips, and if we allowed that Shaw being cut isn't PIS (I am trying to be charitable here), then I would say that Gorgon has an excellent chance of winning. But normally Shaw makes sure that he is at an enhanced level of strength, speed and durability, so if you should edit the original post if that is what you have in mind.

Originally posted by Simbon
Your condescension is misplaced, as the fact that Magneto and Hulk ARE radically different from Gorgon, and WOULD beat him into the ground is precisely my point. Now try and put two and two together.
I understand what your arguement was, it just stupid.

Your pretty much saying A can not beat C, becuase B and D can beat the shit out of C.


It not logical it is plain foolishness.

Originally posted by Simbon
If this was stated in the stips, and if we allowed that Shaw being cut isn't PIS (I am trying to be charitable here), then I would say that Gorgon has an excellent chance of winning. But normally Shaw makes sure that he is at an enhanced level of strength, speed and durability, so if you should edit the original post if that is what you have in mind. the stips are actually quite simple and standard there is no prep unless stated. i did not state any.

Shaw coming into a fight powered up to Hulk lvl strength/sentry durability or anything approaching even mid isnt his standard default lvl.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan


Whats to stop gorgon from cutting off arms, legs, fingures, heads, stabbed vital area ect. All while shaw tries to grabb the far faster and more skilled fighter with the signifcant range advantage via sword.

Oh, I don't know, maybe the same thing that stopped logan from using this strategy?

Originally posted by Simbon
If this was stated in the stips, and if we allowed that Shaw being cut isn't PIS (I am trying to be charitable here), then I would say that Gorgon has an excellent chance of winning. But normally Shaw makes sure that he is at an enhanced level of strength, speed and durability, so if you should edit the original post if that is what you have in mind.
again you say charitable, but really your being ignorant.


You arnt looking at evidence and deciding whats PIS, you ding it based how you wish shaws powers work not how they do.

Shaw does not absorb energy instantly preventing the attack. The attack very much still lands however he absorb the energy from it.

We have evidences of people who know him stating they can take him out with a mere gun, we have instances of 3 characters damaging him with percing attacks ect.


while all we get from you is utter denial.

Originally posted by Simbon
Oh, I don't know, maybe the same thing that stopped logan from using this strategy?
To bad Wolverine also not as fast as gorgon, nor has the range of his weapon. Also the fight took place mainly off pannel, and the last instance we see is shaw looking very scared.

Originally posted by Simbon
Oh, I don't know, maybe the same thing that stopped logan from using this strategy?

Logan simply didn't have enough time to take care of Shaw.

When has it ever been shown that his absorbtion of kinetic energy isn't immediate?
If that were true he would get killed by being punched by class 100 characters or not being able to tank bullets.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Logan simply didn't have enough time to take care of Shaw. He was scared.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I understand what your arguement was, it just stupid.

Your pretty much saying A can not beat C, becuase B and D can beat the shit out of C.


It not logical it is plain foolishness.

No, my logic was as follows:

Only characters with an energy output equal to or greater than A or B can beat C. D's energy output is substantially lower than A or B, therefore D cannot be C. The emphasis here is on energy output, because I believe that this is what Gorgon lacks to put Shaw down.

Now, will you please stop projecting your cognitive difficulties on others.

Originally posted by Mindset
Shaw was scared.

True, he was, as we've seen on panel.

Guido didn't withstand adamantium claws, either

Scared he'd kill Marvel's cash cow, I agree. creepsmile

Originally posted by Mindset
Scared he'd kill Marvel's cash cow, I agree. creepsmile

And Spiderman, Dr Doom, Deadpool don't make cash...?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And Spiderman, Dr Doom, Deadpool don't make cash...? Not from the Canadian market.

and his absorption power is more immediate efficient than shaw.. and even he still get's hurt and cant always absorb a blow.. otherwise the she hulk kick wouldnt have hurt him.

too bad they play up his bad heart though otherwise he would be above Shaw in outlasting him in a fight

Originally posted by Simbon
No, my logic was as follows:

Only characters with an energy output equal to or greater than A or B can beat C. D's energy output is substantially lower than A or B, therefore D cannot be C. The emphasis here is on energy output, because I believe that this is what Gorgon lacks to put Shaw down.

Now, will you please stop projecting your cognitive difficulties on others.



Except there no logic behind it. We already know shaw can be taken out with less, if it piercing damage. Becuase he can still very easily bleed out. So no your logic is still very flawed. Again you think it all about energy out put, but thats your problem. We arn argueing he produces enough energy to overload shaw, quite the opposite. Were saying he will bleed shaw out, well granting shaw very little energy for the amount of damage his body is going through during the fight.



Again this all stems from you overrating shaws abilities.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan


Shaw does not absorb energy instantly preventing the attack. The attack very much still lands however he absorb the energy from it.
.

Yeah, like when Gambit made him explode by giving him a full kinetic charge, or Scott just blasted him in half with his optic blast... oh wait, both times he just stood there and absorbed it.

You claim that I am being ignorant and engaging in wishful thinking. No doubt you also think the batkick is a viable strategy in the forum.

Originally posted by Simbon
Yeah, like when Gambit made him explode by giving him a full kinetic charge, or Scott just blasted him in half with his optic blast... oh wait, both times he just stood there and absorbed it.

You claim that I am being ignorant and engaging in wishful thinking. No doubt you also think the batkick is a viable strategy in the forum.
Your trying to pass off Pure kinetic energy attacks as if there the same as piercing attacks were there naught. We already stated several examples of them working against him despite your denial. Your arguing a kinetic energy absorber, absorbing pure kenetic energy attack as the same as withanding piercing assault is like argueing an apple is saying an organ


No at all my friend. I actually taking the character as shown on pannel, but you just keep on living in denial

i have to agree you cant compare kinetic blast from cyclops or gambit as being the same as a razor cut.

it's like comparing a basket thrown at you being the same as a ninja star being thrown at you. if you can take a basketball you can take a ninja star cut. that is nonsense

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Your trying to pass off Pure kinetic energy attacks as if there the same as piercing attacks were there naught. We already stated several examples of them working against him despite your denial. Your arguing a kinetic energy absorber, absorbing pure kenetic energy attack as the same as withanding piercing assault is like argueing an apple is saying an organ


No at all my friend. I actually taking the character as shown on pannel, but you just keep on living in denial

A piercing attack has no non-kinetic content. I know you think that on-panel examples deny this, but I think this is like saying that the bat-kick can take it out of Wonder-woman, or that Superman or Flash can be hit by people with near-human reflexes, or that Nick Fury and Cap are more than the U-foes just because we have seen all these things on panel. To see certain on-panel events as PIS is not the same as "living in denial." Since we are unlikely to resolve this basic difference between us, I suggest we leave it at that.

no one is saying Shaw cant absorb the kinetic attack from a slice wound, we are saying he will be wounded and the energy transfer is minimal compared to his blunt kinetic attack.

this isnt real world physic and how you think it should work it is comic feats and how his mutant powers work and frankly it doesnt look that could for shaw nor does he absorb energy the way you think it does.

he has been knocked down and driven into the ground by jean grey dropping a car on him.. the inertia still effects him which is why he has bn cut he cant stop the cut cold as you seem to think.

Originally posted by Simbon
A piercing attack has no non-kinetic content. I know you think that on-panel examples deny this, but I think this is like saying that the bat-kick can take it out of Wonder-woman, or that Superman or Flash can be hit by people with near-human reflexes, or that Nick Fury and Cap are more than the U-foes just because we have seen all these things on panel. To see certain on-panel events as PIS is not the same as "living in denial." Since we are unlikely to resolve this basic difference between us, I suggest we leave it at that.
But it not pure kinetic assault. It has other factors which make it a very different assault in comics. But here the problem champ, it been stated, shown several times piercing damage does effect him. This is not some crazy one time showing. This has happen several times. Two characters who know him extremely well have both suggested use of piercing attacks can put him down. So yes you are very much in denial. You wont his powers to work the way you wish them to, not how they do work.

Originally posted by King Castle
no one is saying Shaw cant absorb the kinetic attack from a slice wound, we are saying he will be wounded and the energy transfer is minimal compared to his blunt kinetic attack.

this isnt real world physic and how you think it should work it is comic feats and how his mutant powers work and frankly it doesnt look that could for shaw nor does he absorb energy the way you think it does.

he has been knocked down and driven into the ground by jean grey dropping a car on him.. the inertia still effects him which is why he has bn cut he cant stop the cut cold as you seem to think.
cosigned.

I dont understand why people can't grasp this, especially when many characters with the same powers have very much the same problem against piercing attacks.

Is it just me, or did Shaw dominate Wolverine in their fight? They haven't fought more?

Also, Shaw getting clawed by Daken wouldn't raise eyebrows for me... if he didn't get kicked in the next panel. lolwut? What issue is that?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Is it just me, or did Shaw dominate Wolverine in their fight? They haven't fought more?

Also, Shaw getting clawed by Daken wouldn't raise eyebrows for me... if he didn't get kicked in the next panel. lolwut? What issue is that?
wolverine origins 30

I mean we have on panel showing specifically showing that piercing damage doesn't hurt him. Not to mention Daken and Wolverine both failing to pierce his skin during sneak attacks but apparently that doesn't matter because some people in this thread have been blatantly ignoring what Shaw's powers are and remaining ignorant about the fact that any object in motion has kinetic energy.

I honestly don't know how anyone can take Dum Dum or Stilt seriously when they haven't brought any proof to back up their claims.

This is not supose to show Wolverine >Shaw or any such debate. This scan below is merely to show that piercing attacks do work on shaw
http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/974534_X-Men_-_Legacy_218_011.jpg

He stood up to the claws pretty impressively considering how Marvel handles them.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
This is not supose to show Wolverine >Shaw or any such debate. This scan below is merely to show that piercing attacks do work on shaw
http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/974534_X-Men_-_Legacy_218_011.jpg "Work" being subjective of course... as Shaw manhandled him immediately after that cheap shot from what I saw.

Originally posted by Mindset
He stood up to the claws pretty impressively considering how Marvel handles them. crappy when involved with anyone of worth to the company.

Originally posted by Mindset
He stood up to the claws pretty impressively considering how Marvel handles them.
He did pretty decent, though he bled quite a bit.


He to me seems like he can withstand them in many ways better then people like Thing or Luke, but not as well as individual like Hulk. Because though he recieving energy from each attack it not equal to the amount of damage it doing to his body. So he last longer then most against piercing damage, but not nearly as well as high end healers. Becuase his injury are still very much there, and the energy he recieves more or less lets him tough through it better then most. That my opinion at least on the matter.

Also wonder if shaw has a healing factor, I think yes, but it simply at much lower level then guys like wolverine, but more along lines of a beast maybe stronger.

Notice how Dum Dum is posting the same image from the fight I already posted and misrepresenting what happens as well?
Notice how Shaw isn't bleeding at all but checking the knot that ties his pony tail?

How does that equal being successible to piercing damage.........oh wait it doesn't because your wrong and still haven't brought anything new to support your claims.

I don't see much blood.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"Work" being subjective of course... as Shaw manhandled him immediately after that cheap shot from what I saw. Pretty much. You can't really deny that fact.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't see much blood. but you do see blood, right?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"Work" being subjective of course... as Shaw manhandled him immediately after that cheap shot from what I saw.
It damage him which was my entire point. He not immune to it by any means.


Shaw did the get better of him, but wolverine did get out of the hold. And I personally believe he beat shaw off pannel once he gain a serous advantage by cutting out the lights. I also personally believe that blood on the ground was clearly shaws, despite people loving to claim other wise.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't see much blood. I think that is blood on his hand and possibly his back.

How did it damage him when hes not bleeding?

How does he have a healing factor when his power is to absorb kinetic energy to amp himself?

How is he not immune to all attacks involving kinetic energy when the page before he just tanked an explosion?



If Wolverine was capable of hurting shaw he would have killed him when he turned the lights off instead of running away.

Thats not even blood on his hand thats his red knot that ties his hair.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I think that is blood on his hand and possibly his back.
It is blood on his back, you can see his neck all red.


also in later scans there blood all over the ground, which some people claim is wolverines, but I personally find that unlikely.

Originally posted by King Castle
but you do see blood, right? Depends on if that's blood on his hand or not.Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
It is blood on his back, you can see his neck all red.


also in later scans there blood all over the ground, which some people claim is wolverines, but I personally find that unlikely. Considering the beating Wolverine took I could easily see it being his, would make more sense, actually.

Originally posted by Mindset
Depends on if that's blood on his hand or not. and what do you think it is?

Originally posted by Mindset
Depends on if that's blood on his hand or not.
are you kidding me? are you honestly going to pretend thats not blood?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
It is blood on his back, you can see his neck all red.


also in later scans there blood all over the ground, which some people claim is wolverines, but I personally find that unlikely. I'd have to look at t he fight again but I recall thinking the pool of blood was from the beating Logan took at the hands of the Black King.

Originally posted by King Castle
and what do you think it is? Cloth. Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
are you kidding me? are you honestly going to pretend thats not blood? Don't go full retard if you want me to keep responding, be more like KC.

Originally posted by Mindset
Considering the beating Wolverine took I could easily see it being his, would make more sense, actually.
It makes more sense that the guy hit with blunt force attacks blood is every were, but not the guy who got his back slash open?


are you kidding me?

Its not blood though since you can plainly see after Wolverine cut him from behind that he cut the knot tying his hair and thats what hes fiddling with while Wolverine is telling prof to run.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
It damage him which was my entire point. He not immune to it by any means.


Shaw did the get better of him, but wolverine did get out of the hold. And I personally believe he beat shaw off pannel once he gain a serous advantage by cutting out the lights. I also personally believe that blood on the ground was clearly shaws, despite people loving to claim other wise. Well... he looks far more resistant to them than most top-tier bricks. Whether or not there are polar opposite arguments being posed that Shaw is completely immune OR completely vulnerable to piercing attacks...

... it just didn't look like it made a difference from their actual fight.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I'd have to look at t he fight again but I recall thinking the pool of blood was from the beating Logan took at the hands of the Black King.
I think that is a very awful interpretation.


Shaw having the advantage is true, but pretending that is wolverine blood seem very foolish to me. We clearly see that shaw back is bleed, but we assume the guy getting choked is the one bleeding every were not the guy with the three knife wounds on his back......

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
It makes more sense that the guy hit with blunt force attacks blood is every were, but not the guy who got his back slash open?


are you kidding me?


You're right, punches don't cause blood, all those boxing and mma fights with blood come from tiny knives they're cutting each other with.

There also isn't large amounts of blood from comic fights where people are only using blunt force e.g. punches.

It's also not true that Shaw has at the least, some level of resistance against Logan's claws.

Again, don't go full retard.

Originally posted by Mindset
You're right, punches don't cause blood, all those boxing and mma fights with blood come from tiny knives they're cutting each other with.


It's also not true that Shaw has at the least, some level of resistance against Logan's claws.

Again, don't go full retard.
tell me whats more likely the guy being choked causing the pool of blood or the guy who had 3 knifes slash the shit out of his back.



never denied he could not withstand some stabbs, quite the opposite.




as usual always a pleasure, watching you be a twit.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
tell me whats more likely the guy being choked causing the pool of blood or the guy who had 3 knifes slash the shit out of his back.



never denied he could not withstand some stabbs, quite the opposite.




as usual always a pleasure, watching you be a twit. Oh, so it's not even blunt force trauma now, he was only choking him, gotcha.

So he is resistant to his claws, but not resistant enough to where he wouldn't bleed out a pool of blood, gotcha.

It's a pleasure watching you strain to think...I guess that's what you're doing.

Originally posted by Mindset
Oh, so it's not even blunt force trauma now, he was only choking him, gotcha.

So he is resistant to his claws, but not resistant enough to where he wouldn't bleed out a pool of blood, gotcha.

It's a pleasure watching you strain to think...I guess that's what you're doing.
He choked wolverine, wolverine flipped him off, and there was a pool of blood on the ground......wondering who blood that is....



Yes, he has good enough damage soak to withstand several attacks, but he would bleed out sooner or later. Though his ability absorb kinetic energy keeps him in there longer then most (also I not saying wolverine beats him, im talking purely shaw piercing resistance)


Arnt you so clever

and this is gorgon in the fight let's not forget that part

Ahh the good ole Shaw Wolverine fights. One of the more infamous fights in Marvel lore.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Dum Dum is Wolverine fanboy who wants to ignore on panel evidence that Wolverine can't cut Shaw but then wants to assume Daken stabbing him(which did nothing) isn't PIS for whatever warped reason and apply it to Wolverine when we see that Wolverine can't cut him already? Wolverine didn't even make Shaw bleed when he cut him with his claws. In case you didn't notice Shaw has a red knot for his pony tail which is what Wolverine cut and is what hes holding while Wolverine tells Prof to run. Once again you are willfully misrepresenting what happens on panel to skew showings toward Wolverine.

Does that make sense? I can even post scans showing Shaw's abilities are to absorb all kinetic energy not some imaginary durability power that you made up to support your argument.

We seriously need to start banning some of these trolls




You claimed Shaw couldn't be cut...

then posted scans of him being cut/stabbed on two occassions.

Seems like a pretty hapless way of proving that Shaw can't be cut don't you think?

Tell you what, since you ALREADY proved for DDD that Shaw CAN be cut, perhaps you can now prove that he's resisted being cut as well... and done it more often...

THEN we can have a reasonable discussion on the matter. Until then the only one here being a troll is you, shocking I know.

d3kQk-lgFRI

Originally posted by SasuOna
I actually read the entire crossover and not just the Wolverine issues unlike some of you

Daken never even penetrated his skin with his Claws which is why he had to kick him out a window which still failed to hurt him since we know he tanked an explosion in the same issue he fought Wolverine.
Wolverine couldn't do anything to him either which is why he had to cut the lights off and run from Shaw.

Heres the Wolverine fight
http://i.imgur.com/ew4gQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qc6ej.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cCQxz.jpg

That's the cloth on his vest Wolverine cut. Logan had a clear shot and Shaw made no big deal about. Ironic how it's suppose to blood on Shaw's left hand (and likely right as well) when every panel after you see no traces of blood at all in either hand. If it's blood on his left hand running from the fingers tips to his wrist, it's magically disappeared as quick as it took long to say "Go Now" and lunged at Shaw. Third page you see no blood at all covering any part of his left or right hand. Conclusion: it's the cloth of his vest Wolverine cut up.

Wolverine has a bleeding nose though if that counts for anything.

Yeah but there's panels thereafter where his vest isn't even cut.

At any rate I don't think that Shaw was grimmacing in what looked like pain, and forced to drop Charles because Wolverine DIDN'T do anything to him.

To me it looks like he got cut.

That specific panel looks like he got cut (He seemed shocked more than anything) but then the following panels seem to indicate he wasn't.

Just poor art.

well yeah I don't think Logan did a significant amount of damage, but it does look like he got cut.

Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah but there's panels thereafter where his vest isn't even cut.

At any rate I don't think that Shaw was grimmacing in what looked like pain, and forced to drop Charles because Wolverine DIDN'T do anything to him.

To me it looks like he got cut.

True, he did look like Grimace their and let go of Charles. But it's not clear that Wolverine actually drew blood as some is saying. Looks like cloth to me. Then Shaw goes on to manhandle Logan like nothing happen and we see no blood in either hand. Somethings red on his left hand and Shaw reached behind his back with his right hand but the following panels show no blood.

Not much of an X-Men reader but does anyone else have anything showing Shaw being pierced? Not ambiguous scenes like the the Daken and Wolverine fights. And no, I'm not looking for lectures here by anybody about how this is. Would just like too see other instances. Thanks

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Not much of an X-Men reader but does anyone else have anything showing Shaw being pierced? Not ambiguous scenes like the the Daken and Wolverine fights. And no, I'm not looking for lectures here by anybody about how this is. Would just like too see other instances. Thanks

agreed.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
True, he did look like Grimace their and let go of Charles. But it's not clear that Wolverine actually drew blood as some is saying. Looks like cloth to me. Then Shaw goes on to manhandle Logan like nothing happen and we see no blood in either hand. Somethings red on his left hand and Shaw reached behind his back with his right hand but the following panels show no blood.

Not much of an X-Men reader but does anyone else have anything showing Shaw being pierced? Not ambiguous scenes like the the Daken and Wolverine fights. And no, I'm not looking for lectures here by anybody about how this is. Would just like too see other instances. Thanks

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6154/uncannyxmen454page22.th.jpghttp://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3731/uncannyxmen454page23.th.jpg


I believe Shaw absorbs to much of the kinetic energy of the knife to be fully pierced. It doesn't look like he got cut in those scans. But from the Daken one, I'd say he can be cut, but they're shallow cuts almost like scratches.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9324/uncannyxmen454page14.th.jpghttp://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2804/uncannyxmen454page17.th.jpg

As for Original Sin, Wolverine snuck away from the fight after getting mounted by Shaw.

And as for Telepathy, well in that instance Emma panicked. The arc revealed she's afraid of Shaw. His speed stats increase when he absorbs kinetic energy and he was charging at her to squash her head like he did to those other Hellfire bimbos. She was too scared to concentrate and his convinction of wanting her dead were great so she changed quickly to diamond. Her powers worked on him fine before, as has it worked on Wolverine too.

http://www.formspring.me/KieronGillen/q/167591217687730272