Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Often, I hear the argument that Apple is the better choice because of the greater number of applications available on Apple.

100K+ apps on the Android market. 300K+ apps on the Apple market.

Many applications, the higher quality ones, overlap between the two markets, considerably. If you consider the number of browser based applications that can run simply because of Flash, the number increases by hundreds of thousands, greatly eclipsing those available for Apple. Flash support is not the only factor: Sandbox like apps (like Java RE), alternate browsers, processing (CPU and GPU) are also factors on what applications can run.

The majority of those apps go unused and that goes for both platforms: http://www.pcworld.com/article/181448/apples_app_store_100000_apps_but_most_are_unused.html

Additionally, the rate of Android application creation is occurring, at the moment, is set to eclipse that of Apple in about 2 years (if that's what is considered a good measure of which platform to choose). Why is that? It's because the android platform is more much developer friendly and allows more freedom in the creation process over iOS. They also do not have to stick to the Android Market for application distribution, which is much more "free" for the developer and the end user. The Amazon Market interface is also coming to Android.

Also, the two advantages that the application-specific Apple interfacing had over Android was a platform for ease of purchases (iTunes) and in app purchases: both of those advantages are gone with Honeycomb and Android 2.3 (gingerbread).

The Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 and the Motorola Xoom are both better in most categories, for all-purpose Tablet uses. "Application base" was never a really good argument, but it might have been a semi-decent argument about 3 years ago.

Here are the categories:

Video Playback: Xoom and Tab
Processing Power (GPU and CPU): Xoom and Tab
Application Base: iPad 2
Web-browsing: Xoom and Tab.
Flash Support: Xoom and Tab.
Compatibility with none "off the shelf" applications: Xoom and Tab.
Additional Hardware Features: Xoom and Tab.
Camera/s: Xoom and Tab.
OS Customization: Xoom and Tab.
Personalization of the User Interface: Xoom and Tab
Storage Expandability: Xoom and Tab.
Rabid Cosumerfanboyism Advantage: Apple. (This is the most important factor in the success of the respective devices: there is no consumer electronic rabidness like that of Apple fanboys. Some may scoff at the idea that that is an advantage. I say, "Look at the sales scoreboard. Look at the hardware and compatibility specs. That's right: shutup." It's the fastest way to shutup the Android fanboys. lol.)

http://www.tipb.com/images/stories/2011/03/ipad_2_xoom_optimus-pad_galaxy-tab_touchpad_playbook_specs.jpg

From the specs and compatibility options, alone, you'd think most consumers would make the obvious choice, right? Wrong: Apple has a following that defies logic. I can't ever hate Apple for delivering to the market in a way that makes the consumers want to buy their products.

That said, who will win the slate market? Definitely Apple...at least for the short term. Which is the better choice, overall? Obviously, Xoom or Tab. Which one will I get? MAYBE the Xoom. But I'm holding out for second or third generation honeycomb interfaces.



1. Discuss your thoughts on the Apple's iPad vs. Android's Honeycomb products.
2.Which will win in 2 years?
3. How will this change the way we think and go about our computing needs/wants?
4. Which Slate-type of device would you rather own? iPad 2 or a Xoom/Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1?
5. Is price a big consideration for both yourself and the market?


I apololgize for the less formal writing style of this post, ahead of time.


I look forward to the thoughts on this.

I'll import my post from facebook for a point of reference:

I was going to address your Facebook points in this post, but it got too long (11000 characters so I will post that in the next post)
Now to your post:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Often, I hear the argument that Apple is the better choice because of the greater number of applications available on Apple.

100K+ apps on the Android market. 300K+ apps on the Apple market.

Many applications, the higher quality ones, overlap between the two markets, considerably. If you consider the number of browser based applications that can run simply because of Flash, the number increases by hundreds of thousands, greatly eclipsing those available for Apple. Flash support is not the only factor: Sandbox like apps (like Java RE), alternate browsers, processing (CPU and GPU) are also factors on what applications can run.

The majority of those apps go unused and that goes for both platforms: http://www.pcworld.com/article/181448/apples_app_store_100000_apps_but_most_are_unused.html

Additionally, the rate of Android application creation is occurring, at the moment, is set to eclipse that of Apple in about 2 years (if that's what is considered a good measure of which platform to choose). Why is that? It's because the android platform is more much developer friendly and allows more freedom in the creation process over iOS. They also do not have to stick to the Android Market for application distribution, which is much more "free" for the developer and the end user. The Amazon Market interface is also coming to Android.

Also, the two advantages that the application-specific Apple interfacing had over Android was a platform for ease of purchases (iTunes) and in app purchases: both of those advantages are gone with Honeycomb and Android 2.3 (gingerbread).



This seems to be points about the Apps. The problem I think is that we are talking mainly about Tablet optimized apps. Android has as of yet almost none, the last number I read was 16. And that is a big deal, the iPad has thousands of optimized apps (admittedly many are just HD versions, but there's also a lot which are completely redesigned for the bigger screen) and right now Android is at the point where it has to get developers (who are weary because of high risk of low payback) to develop on a yet relatively small ecosystem or get consumers to buy with very few apps to draw them in. That can be a very problematic point, and would likely break a less well funded OS's neck.

I do believe in Android though, they do great work, and they are the only viable alternative for people who want a free operating system, who want control over their operating system, or just plain hate Apple. But they still have a way to go with anyone that doesn't fit into these groups (which is most people)

Another thing is the monetization, Apple has made a very viable system for developers, which can't be rivaled by Android where everyone wants everything free. Perhaps apps like Angry Birds monetize as well on Android, but those breakthrough popular apps are very few.

Also, personally, having played with both Android Phones and iPods, I must concede that most iOS apps, especially the ones cross platform, have a more polished feel to them than their Android counterparts.

But yeah, there's a lot of overlap, and there's certain exclusives too, if you buy an Android smartphone, you'll definitely do alright apps wise, like you said (paraphrased) it's not about quantity, but quality...whether there's 100 000 apps or 300 000 makes little difference as only the first 1000 are worth anyone's time anyways.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 and the Motorola Xoom are both better in most categories, for all-purpose Tablet uses. "Application base" was never a really good argument, but it might have been a semi-decent argument about 3 years ago.

Here are the categories:

Video Playback: Xoom and Tab
Processing Power (GPU and CPU): Xoom and Tab
Application Base: iPad 2
Web-browsing: Xoom and Tab.
Flash Support: Xoom and Tab.
Compatibility with none "off the shelf" applications: Xoom and Tab.
Additional Hardware Features: Xoom and Tab.
Camera/s: Xoom and Tab.
OS Customization: Xoom and Tab.
Personalization of the User Interface: Xoom and Tab
Storage Expandability: Xoom and Tab.
Rabid Cosumerfanboyism Advantage: Apple. (This is the most important factor in the success of the respective devices: there is no consumer electronic rabidness like that of Apple fanboys. Some may scoff at the idea that that is an advantage. I say, "Look at the sales scoreboard. Look at the hardware and compatibility specs. That's right: shutup." It's the fastest way to shutup the Android fanboys. lol.)

http://www.tipb.com/images/stories/2011/03/ipad_2_xoom_optimus-pad_galaxy-tab_touchpad_playbook_specs.jpg

From the specs and compatibility options, alone, you'd think most consumers would make the obvious choice, right? Wrong: Apple has a following that defies logic. I can't ever hate Apple for delivering to the market in a way that makes the consumers want to buy their products.


Lol, yes, spec wise Apple gets beat almost every time. John Gruber had a great piece about there being different categories people care about though. My mom doesn't give a damn whether it has a 200 Mhz CPU or a 5 Ghz otuple core, she wants things not to lag and to work how she expects, and so do millions of other consumers. You and me, we are computer nerds, we love specs, but that's not what it is about, Apple shows this again and again with their amazing sales.

Originally posted by dadudemon

That said, who will win the slate market? Definitely Apple...at least for the short term. Which is the better choice, overall? Obviously, Xoom or Tab. Which one will I get? MAYBE the Xoom. But I'm holding out for second or third generation honeycomb interfaces.

I'd wait for further generations of Android tablets, perhaps some more updates to Android, too. Like I said, I'll probably get an iPad 2 sometime soon. I am excited about the HP Touch Pad though, WebOS has potential, and HP is huge...



Originally posted by dadudemon
1. Discuss your thoughts on the Apple's iPad vs. Android's Honeycomb products.
2.Which will win in 2 years?
3. How will this change the way we think and go about our computing needs/wants?
4. Which Slate-type of device would you rather own? iPad 2 or a Xoom/Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1?
5. Is price a big consideration for both yourself and the market?


I apololgize for the less formal writing style of this post, ahead of time.


I look forward to the thoughts on this.

2. I don't believe there will be a "winner", Apple will be doing very well, perhaps Android will dominate by then, it will likely be big anyways. Some other players could be doing alright, but I think it will be between Apple and Google overall, like the smartphone market will be soon. Apple doesn't need 50, 60, 70 percent. Apple would be doing extremely well with 5 or 10% of the tablet and smartphone markets in 2 years and they will likely have more 20 or 30 percent I could imagine by then still. They will likely enter a lower budget market with a smaller/cheaper iPhone, which may give them a boost, while Android is a juggernaut, I don't see them slowing down for a while.

3. I think it is already starting, we are going away from the conventions and baggage we got from the development of OS from Unix and Dos to the Windows iterations. Computers won't have any initial time investment, they will just be there and usable intuitively. Worryingly that might make the next generation less able to understand and appreciate computers "under the hood", but we'll see about that in the future.

4. iPad2

5. Yes to both.

They are buying the name, yes. But they are also buying the apps they know and heard of from their friends who have iPads not Android devices, they are buying complete simplicity, freedom comes with complications, they can't do much with the iPad, but its only things they don't want to do anyways, and they know they can't break anything, cause it all just works in its limited way.

I don't think the iPad 2 will have any strong competition, it doesn't have to fear anything, it will sell immensely well and will continue to be burned in the general consciousness of society. Perhaps the Galaxy Tab 2 and the Xoom will sell relatively "well" it will not come close to anything the iPad will do though. That said, I do believe there will be more competition in the future, maybe already at the iPad 3.

I am wondering what you wanted. The hardware specs increase actually made me excited, at last a dual core, and far improved Graphics. They don't mention RAM which is worrysome, but doesn't necessarily matter as long as everything can work with this, the iPad though somewhat able now, is not a real multitasking device. I am extremely excited about the iPad, it adressed some of the things I didn't like about the first iPad (lack of camera, weight, etc.) and increased its power while keeping the same price. The only thing I am disappointed about (though it was clear before) is that the screen resolution is still pretty bad, I am sure something that will be addressed with the iPad 3, but that's hardly a dealbreaker for me.

I kind of feel the same way. The only reason smart phones and tablets hold any interest to me is because I love technology, and they represent a new generation of technology. But... give me a laptop any day. My cellphone has a camera, a qwerty keyboard, and a GPS app. That's all I want. That being said, to at least somewhat address the actual topic:


2.Which will win in 2 years? Don't really know. A couple of years ago I would say that Apple will win simply because they're Apple, and that's one of the most influential brand names in history. However lately I've seen more and more people choose other competing products instead of Apple's, so I guess people are smarter than that.

3. How will this change the way we think and go about our computing needs/wants? Not for the better, imo.

4. Which Slate-type of device would you rather own? iPad 2 or a Xoom/Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1?

I have a stigma against Apple products. So the second choice.

5. Is price a big consideration for both yourself and the market?

For me definitely. As noted above I'd sooner buy a good laptop than a smartphone or a tablet. But if the price for one is low enough that I could buy it and not miss the money, than sure I'd get one.

I already have a laptop, I want a (to steal Apple's marketing terms) post-PC device. I agree, had I no PC at all, I'd get a PC laptop over this, hell, these products (at least the iPad) don't really work if not connected to a Computer. But if I am trying to think of the needs other people have, say my grandma, I could imagine suggesting her just to buy an iPad, she wouldn't need any of the functionality a laptop gives beyond an iPad, and it would definitely make her live easier as it is so much more intuitive than PCs (so, so much).

I could see where you're coming from with that. My Mom has an iTouch, and she loves it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
This seems to be points about the Apps. The problem I think is that we are talking mainly about Tablet optimized apps. Android has as of yet almost none, the last number I read was 16. And that is a big deal, the iPad has thousands of optimized apps (admittedly many are just HD versions, but there's also a lot which are completely redesigned for the bigger screen) and right now Android is at the point where it has to get developers (who are weary because of high risk of low payback) to develop on a yet relatively small ecosystem or get consumers to buy with very few apps to draw them in. That can be a very problematic point, and would likely break a less well funded OS's neck.

As the lin I provided showed, "app numbers" do not matter after a certain point.

Additionally, I do not see why you would even care about apps that are the same on the iPhone except "HD" made to improve the look on the iPad? Doesn't that seem cheap to you? Can you name one good iPad exclusive app that you yourself would use?

Additionally, I can type one word and it's the end of this entire conversation: Flash.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I do believe in Android though, they do great work, and they are the only viable alternative for people who want a free operating system, who want control over their operating system, or just plain hate Apple. But they still have a way to go with anyone that doesn't fit into these groups (which is most people)

I agree and disagree. I don't think they have a "ways to go" with anything, anymore...other than getting devices into customer's hands. They have the OS software and hardware there, already. No more groundwork on that side needs to be done.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Another thing is the monetization, Apple has made a very viable system for developers, which can't be rivaled by Android where everyone wants everything free. Perhaps apps like Angry Birds monetize as well on Android, but those breakthrough popular apps are very few.

I think I disagree on fact. It's much harder to develop applications for the iOS than it is the Android systems. This is a fact. Have you even looked that the API? You can make an app for the Android in 10 minutes. Yes, I'm serious. Just 10 minutes.

And, yes, the major apps show up on both platforms.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Also, personally, having played with both Android Phones and iPods, I must concede that most iOS apps, especially the ones cross platform, have a more polished feel to them than their Android counterparts.

I'm just the opposite. My experience has been a more polished/clean feel to the android applications, especially if the app. is developed for the android AFTER it was released on the iPhone: seems programmers can fix bugs a little easier for the Android OS.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Lol, yes, spec wise Apple gets beat almost every time. John Gruber had a great piece about there being different categories people care about though. My mom doesn't give a damn whether it has a 200 Mhz CPU or a 5 Ghz otuple core, she wants things not to lag and to work how she expects, and so do millions of other consumers. You and me, we are computer nerds, we love specs, but that's not what it is about, Apple shows this again and again with their amazing sales.

I want performance, which is directly tied to specs and OS utilization of those specs. I want the whole package. If the Xoom ran like a piece of crap, it doesn't matter how much better the specs are: it would be too frustrating for me.


Originally posted by Bardock42
I'd wait for further generations of Android tablets, perhaps some more updates to Android, too. Like I said, I'll probably get an iPad 2 sometime soon. I am excited about the HP Touch Pad though, WebOS has potential, and HP is huge...

I am, as well. I'm going to wait for second or third generation honeycomb tablets/slates.





Originally posted by Bardock42
2. I don't believe there will be a "winner", Apple will be doing very well, perhaps Android will dominate by then, it will likely be big anyways. Some other players could be doing alright, but I think it will be between Apple and Google overall, like the smartphone market will be soon. Apple doesn't need 50, 60, 70 percent. Apple would be doing extremely well with 5 or 10% of the tablet and smartphone markets in 2 years and they will likely have more 20 or 30 percent I could imagine by then still. They will likely enter a lower budget market with a smaller/cheaper iPhone, which may give them a boost, while Android is a juggernaut, I don't see them slowing down for a while.

I believe that Apple realized some of their mistakes with the iPhone and had to play catch-up with functionality and features from the Android devices. They got scared. I do not believe Apple would have upgraded iOS nearly as much as they did if it were not for Android's progress. The Apple-tards should be thanking the An-Tards for the competition. Android devices have directly cut into iPhone sales and even overtook Apple for a bit. It was such a relief when I saw that.

As far s the 2 year outlook? I think Apple will still be on top but Android/Google will have closed the gap.

Originally posted by Bardock42
3. I think it is already starting, we are going away from the conventions and baggage we got from the development of OS from Unix and Dos to the Windows iterations. Computers won't have any initial time investment, they will just be there and usable intuitively. Worryingly that might make the next generation less able to understand and appreciate computers "under the hood", but we'll see about that in the future.

I think we'll integrate computers into ourselves.

Originally posted by Bardock42
4. iPad2

I'm a none of the above.

Originally posted by Bardock42
5. Yes to both.

For me, functionality is the most imortant aspect in a computing purchase. Price is actually quit a bit down the list. I have a ceiling, of course, but it usually doesn't affect my top choice in a purchase.

The market definitely does care about price...most of the time. Sometimes, people DO choose functionality over price. Millions of silly over-priced computer purchases from Apple can't be wrong, right?




One of my favorite techy jokes is this:

Hi, PC!
Hi, Mac.
Watchoo doin', PC?
Playing games.
Which ones?
All of them.

Originally posted by Bardock42
They are buying the name, yes. But they are also buying the apps they know and heard of from their friends who have iPads not Android devices, they are buying complete simplicity, freedom comes with complications, they can't do much with the iPad, but its only things they don't want to do anyways, and they know they can't break anything, cause it all just works in its limited way.

From my friends, I here more about cool apps on the Android and they rub it iin that I have an iPhone.

And, the "apps" argument was covered already.

Additionally, the argument about "Android" being too free is wrong. In order to make it "free" you have to root your Android device which is very similar to jail-breaking an iPhone/iPad. The ability to customize the Android, of course, is more free than the iPhone, hands-down. You don't even want to know all of the whining I've heard from teenage girls (sounds sexist, right? That was just my experience.) about rings tones and desktops they couldn't do with their iPhone. Nice that Apple tried to fix that in 4.3, thoug, isn't it? I guess they heard the whining teens, as well?

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't think the iPad 2 will have any strong competition, it doesn't have to fear anything, it will sell immensely well and will continue to be burned in the general consciousness of society. Perhaps the Galaxy Tab 2 and the Xoom will sell relatively "well" it will not come close to anything the iPad will do though. That said, I do believe there will be more competition in the future, maybe already at the iPad 3.

Sadly, I agree. I wish people would stop being idiots and flocking to Apple products. Because they keep doing that, Apple keeps putting out less than satisfactory products. If Apple had only 25% of the slate/tablet market, you think they would have released a less that satisfactory "update" to the hardware? They gave it better graphics and processing power but some are rumoring that they didn't even upgrade the RAM? The little pittance for cameras they put in is almost a mockery of the the whining Apple buyers did.

I wanna see some games played on the iPad 2, though, before I rule it completely out as crumbs from Apple.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I am wondering what you wanted. The hardware specs increase actually made me excited, at last a dual core, and far improved Graphics. They don't mention RAM which is worrysome, but doesn't necessarily matter as long as everything can work with this, the iPad though somewhat able now, is not a real multitasking device. I am extremely excited about the iPad, it adressed some of the things I didn't like about the first iPad (lack of camera, weight, etc.) and increased its power while keeping the same price. The only thing I am disappointed about (though it was clear before) is that the screen resolution is still pretty bad, I am sure something that will be addressed with the iPad 3, but that's hardly a dealbreaker for me.

I want USB 2 or 3 with the ability to charge through the USB port, microSD or just some sort of memory expansion slot, 4G capable, much better cameras; precisions drawing sense with that dynamically switches, based on the application, for stylus input; a better CPU, 4x the amount of RAM and at DDR3, true multi-tasking, and a much more open or customizable platform. The only thing I liked about the iPad 2 was the GPU improvement. Nice jump, IMO.

If they gave me those, I would buy one, easily, because the Android whiners would have no complaints. Even if it cost $700, I would buy it in a heartbeat. You know what? Most of those items were wanted in the FIRST iPad, much less the second. If Apple wanted to get at least 100,000 more purchases, they could add about 3/4 those things and many Android fans, but not quite fanboys (like myself) would buy their product.

2011 is the year you will see the iPhone etc fall to Android. Nokia are already about to ditch their Symbian platform and go with Android.

Given that Android already have about 2% more market share than iOS and RIM(Blackberry) and it's about to also have the largest mobile/cell manufacturer start using its platform then it's inevitable that more and more apps eventually start getting developed for it.

While most of them, as shown above, are pointless and unused applications...This is what the draw seems to be for your general know-nothing consumer. The vast majority of consumers don't know and don't care what your stats above mean.

Case in point...My brother...Every time he wants to upgrade his phone he asks me what he should get...I list the best phones either out at the time or about to come out...He actually phoned me last week and I said the LG Optimus 2x or the Sony Xperia Arc or the new Motorola dual-core who's name escapes me at the moment.

What did he go with?...The iPhone 3gs...Not even the iPhone 4. It wasn't even a cost issue. The guy earns over 50k a year and could have easily bought any phone on any contract.

Such is still, at the moment, the power of Apple's hold over the generally ignorant masses.

Originally posted by jaden101
2011 is the year you will see the iPhone etc fall to Android. Nokia are already about to ditch their Symbian platform and go with Android.

Given that Android already have about 2% more market share than iOS and RIM(Blackberry) and it's about to also have the largest mobile/cell manufacturer start using its platform then it's inevitable that more and more apps eventually start getting developed for it.

While most of them, as shown above, are pointless and unused applications...This is what the draw seems to be for your general know-nothing consumer. The vast majority of consumers don't know and don't care what your stats above mean.

Case in point...My brother...Every time he wants to upgrade his phone he asks me what he should get...I list the best phones either out at the time or about to come out...He actually phoned me last week and I said the LG Optimus 2x or the Sony Xperia Arc or the new Motorola dual-core who's name escapes me at the moment.

What did he go with?...The iPhone 3gs...Not even the iPhone 4. It wasn't even a cost issue. The guy earns over 50k a year and could have easily bought any phone on any contract.

Such is still, at the moment, the power of Apple's hold over the generally ignorant masses.

If your brother is single, 50k is quite a bit. (It's around $80,000.) But, I can tell you why he bought an iPhone: he's fallen for the Apple "magic" of sorts.


Edit - Also, I just read that Motorola is estimating Q1 sales of their Xoom will be between 700k and 800k.

Double edit - This sales graph shows that Android did not quite reach iPhone levels, yet. But, it's right on track to take over...maybe you're correct with your 2%? I guess with 5 more months, a 2% lead over iPhone is rather easy to see, using this graph:

http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/01/03/nielsen-releases-smartphone-market-share-figures-android-domination-imminent/



One analyst said that in 2012, it will be 38% android and 48% iOS for the tablet market. That's good considering Q4 of 2010, for tablets, had a 93% dominance from Apple.

Originally posted by dadudemon
As the lin I provided showed, "app numbers" do not matter after a certain point.

Additionally, I do not see why you would even care about apps that are the same on the iPhone except "HD" made to improve the look on the iPad? Doesn't that seem cheap to you? Can you name one good iPad exclusive app that you yourself would use?

Additionally, I can type one word and it's the end of this entire conversation: Flash.

It's not so much about what I want, I am the exception of users, but yes I'd count HD apps, or slightly changed apps, because those are apps people would get vs. getting small or grainy apps. But even I would very much like to check out Flipboard and the Marvel Comic app. In addition to a lot of native games I want to try.

Flash is a good argument, if it works right (which we don't know yet, as it is not available on the Xoom) and if the Flash Apps are optimized for the touch screen interface. So far it still seems like native apps will be far superior to anything Flash and HTML5 can offer tablets yet.


Originally posted by dadudemon
I agree and disagree. I don't think they have a "ways to go" with anything, anymore...other than getting devices into customer's hands. They have the OS software and hardware there, already. No more groundwork on that side needs to be done.

That's mostly what I mean, they have "ways to go" in getting those customers to want or care for them. I do think the iOS is still better for this segment in intuitiveness and ease of use, I'd have to try Honeycomb hands on, but we have to look at this from the perspective of general customers, not tech geeks.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I think I disagree on fact. It's much harder to develop applications for the iOS than it is the Android systems. This is a fact. Have you even looked that the API? You can make an app for the Android in 10 minutes. Yes, I'm serious. Just 10 minutes.

That's not actually a fact though. A lot of people feel like the Android environment is more buggy and problematic to develop for. What is true is that you need to invest more to develop for iOS and that you are more limited in what you do, developing on it is made rather smooth though. Again, I agree initial cost and problems are small on Android, any fool can make an app with the Android App Creator, too, but we are talking about high end applications, not all the crappy apps no one will ever look at (10 minute apps)

Originally posted by dadudemon
And, yes, the major apps show up on both platforms.

Not for Tablets yet.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm just the opposite. My experience has been a more polished/clean feel to the android applications, especially if the app. is developed for the android AFTER it was released on the iPhone: seems programmers can fix bugs a little easier for the Andiroid OS.

I suppose there's no way for us to quantify this.


Originally posted by dadudemon
I want performance, which is directly tied to specs and OS utilization of those specs. I want the whole package. If the Xoom ran like a piece of crap, it doesn't matter how much better the specs are: it would be too frustrating for me.

Again we are going into opinion, Android to me runs less smooth, even if its specs are superior. Apple can completely focus on the one set of specs they have, it's the same reason, why console gaming (and developing) is so popular.


Originally posted by dadudemon
I am, as well. I'm going to wait for second or third generation honeycomb tablets/slates.



I think that's a good idea.



Originally posted by dadudemon


For me, functionality is the most imortant aspect in a computing purchase. Price is actually quit a bit down the list. I have a ceiling, of course, but it usually doesn't affect my top choice in a purchase.

The market definitely does care about price...most of the time. Sometimes, people DO choose functionality over price. Millions of silly over-priced computer purchases from Apple can't be wrong, right?

I am totally with you on Apple being generally overprized for similar things (they try to sell unquantifiable things). The thing is...it's the opposite in the tablet market. They are insanely cheap, yet still have this unquantifiable thing they strive for. I think you can blame them with almost everything they sell for selling it at a much higher price as they could (though that's their business, if it sells I don't care, I don't have to buy it) from iPods to iMacs...but not the iPad, which is one of the reasons why I feel really good about making the choice to get an iPad, it's an experience buy, really, and it doesn't even cost me as much as the competition (where I have to worry that the same experience but slightly better will be there next week, rather than next year)


Originally posted by dadudemon
One of my favorite techy jokes is this:

Hi, PC!
Hi, Mac.
Watchoo doin', PC?
Playing games.
Which ones?
All of them.



Yeah, that one is great

Originally posted by dadudemon
From my friends, I here more about cool apps on the Android and they rub it iin that I have an iPhone.

And, the "apps" argument was covered already.

Additionally, the argument about "Android" being too free is wrong. In order to make it "free" you have to root your Android device which is very similar to jail-breaking an iPhone/iPad. The ability to customize the Android, of course, is more free than the iPhone, hands-down. You don't even want to know all of the whining I've heard from teenage girls (sounds sexist, right? That was just my experience.) about rings tones and desktops they couldn't do with their iPhone. Nice that Apple tried to fix that in 4.3, thoug, isn't it? I guess they heard the whining teens, as well?

I am with you on wanting those things in iPhones, but I can't fault them for their business strategy, it works, it's perhaps the best business strategy in the world today.

As for the app thing, perhaps that is turning now in the US, or perhaps you are in certain circles where it is prevalent, but as far as I can tell, iPhones still have the more respectable status, and many people buying Android devices don't know and don't care what OS they have. They don't about iPhones either, but if someone says I have an iPhone everyone in the know, knows it is iOS. If they say, "I bought some smartphone" and you ask "What OS? Android, Bada, WebOs, Symbian?" you'll most of the time get a "I don't know".


Originally posted by dadudemon
Sadly, I agree. I wish people would stop being idiots and flocking to Apple products. Because they keep doing that, Apple keeps putting out less than satisfactory products. If Apple had only 25% of the slate/tablet market, you think they would have released a less that satisfactory "update" to the hardware? They gave it better graphics and processing power but some are rumoring that they didn't even upgrade the RAM? The little pittance for cameras they put in is almost a mockery of the the whining Apple buyers did.

I wanna see some games played on the iPad 2, though, before I rule it completely out as crumbs from Apple.

Again, I don't think you get their strategy, to them it is not a game of specs. The people getting orgasms over specs are few and not the people they want.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I want USB 2 or 3 with the ability to charge through the USB port, microSD or just some sort of memory expansion slot, 4G capable, much better cameras; precisions drawing sense with that dynamically switches, based on the application, for stylus input; a better CPU, 4x the amount of RAM and at DDR3, true multi-tasking, and a much more open or customizable platform. The only thing I liked about the iPad 2 was the GPU improvement. Nice jump, IMO.

If they gave me those, I would buy one, easily, because the Android whiners would have no complaints. Even if it cost $700, I would buy it in a heartbeat. You know what? Most of those items were wanted in the FIRST iPad, much less the second. If Apple wanted to get at least 100,000 more purchases, they could add about 3/4 those things and many Android fans, but not quite fanboys (like myself) would buy their product.

100 000 of 15 million, so it might increase their sales by 0.6%. But doesn't consider what the increased price, an possible problems with the OS working well with it (or conversely the price to make it fit) will lose them in customers.

I mean, I am with you in theory, I'd like those things, but you have to see it from their perspective, it would be completely insane to do it.

Originally posted by jaden101
2011 is the year you will see the iPhone etc fall to Android. Nokia are already about to ditch their Symbian platform and go with Android.

Wut? Nokia struck a deal with Microsoft, they will get Windows Phone 7 for their device. No Android on Nokia.

Android will surpass Apple most likely, but Apple won't "fall" they don't care about having the majority in the market, and they will likely increase their profits. The smartphone market is not a zero-sum game, yet.


Originally posted by jaden101
Given that Android already have about 2% more market share than iOS and RIM(Blackberry) and it's about to also have the largest mobile/cell manufacturer start using its platform then it's inevitable that more and more apps eventually start getting developed for it.

Again, no Android on Nokia. And those stats are US only. But that's just fact check, you are right about them being getting more developers.

Originally posted by jaden101
While most of them, as shown above, are pointless and unused applications...This is what the draw seems to be for your general know-nothing consumer. The vast majority of consumers don't know and don't care what your stats above mean.

Case in point...My brother...Every time he wants to upgrade his phone he asks me what he should get...I list the best phones either out at the time or about to come out...He actually phoned me last week and I said the LG Optimus 2x or the Sony Xperia Arc or the new Motorola dual-core who's name escapes me at the moment.

What did he go with?...The iPhone 3gs...Not even the iPhone 4. It wasn't even a cost issue. The guy earns over 50k a year and could have easily bought any phone on any contract.

Such is still, at the moment, the power of Apple's hold over the generally ignorant masses.

I completely agree with this (also with your suggestions) I will likely wait out for the Samsung Galaxy S2, at least. But yeah, Apple has draw over people, and it does make sense actually, I'd suggest it to everyone who has no computer know how, as they might easily get frustrated and blame me, a risk that's very low with iPhones.

Originally posted by dadudemon
IEdit - Also, I just read that Motorola is estimating Q1 sales of their Xoom will be between 700k and 800k.


Do you consider that good?

I personally think, it might be okay for Motorola, they can be alright with it. But the iPad will sell millions in the first month, I can already guarantee that.






Also just to make this point again (not for you dadudemon, I think you know that).


DESPITE THEIR (FAIR) REPUTATION FOR OVERPRICED PRODUCTS THE IPAD IS THE CHEAPEST HIGH QUALITY TABLET YOU CAN BUY RIGHT NOW

Louis Grey on the iPad 2

http://blog.louisgray.com/2011/03/ipad-2-dilemma-nice-upgrade-but-without.html

He's great, and in my opinion spot on. Probably my favourite early adopter blogger


(and also a Mormon, dadudemon)

.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Wut? Nokia struck a deal with Microsoft, they will get Windows Phone 7 for their device. No Android on Nokia.

Android will surpass Apple most likely, but Apple won't "fall" they don't care about having the majority in the market, and they will likely increase their profits. The smartphone market is not a zero-sum game, yet.




Again, no Android on Nokia. And those stats are US only. But that's just fact check, you are right about them being getting more developers.



I completely agree with this (also with your suggestions) I will likely wait out for the Samsung Galaxy S2, at least. But yeah, Apple has draw over people, and it does make sense actually, I'd suggest it to everyone who has no computer know how, as they might easily get frustrated and blame me, a risk that's very low with iPhones.

A: My mistake

2: Stupid move

and D: Why the Galaxy S2?

Originally posted by jaden101
A: My mistake

2: Stupid move

and D: Why the Galaxy S2?

A. No biggie

2. Agreed

D. Great specs and I love their Super AMOLED Plus screens.

they are both crap and pointless

Originally posted by Bardock42
It's not so much about what I want, I am the exception of users, but yes I'd count HD apps, or slightly changed apps, because those are apps people would get vs. getting small or grainy apps. But even I would very much like to check out Flipboard and the Marvel Comic app. In addition to a lot of native games I want to try.

Flash is a good argument, if it works right (which we don't know yet, as it is not available on the Xoom) and if the Flash Apps are optimized for the touch screen interface. So far it still seems like native apps will be far superior to anything Flash and HTML5 can offer tablets yet.

I agree and good app choices. I did not think you could name any useful ones that you yourself would use.

Flash is limited on Xoom (for instance, you can browse Youtube's website and play videos, no problem, but you cannot load and play games off of newgrounds, yet. but, check this out: root the device, and you can install flash on it, now ) but it works for the 10.1 Galaxy, right out of the box.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's mostly what I mean, they have "ways to go" in getting those customers to want or care for them. I do think the iOS is still better for this segment in intuitiveness and ease of use, I'd have to try Honeycomb hands on, but we have to look at this from the perspective of general customers, not tech geeks..

Oh, okay. Then, yeah, we fully agree. Also, you can see honeycomb demos, on the Xoom, on youtube, now. It's pretty snappy.



Originally posted by Bardock42
That's not actually a fact though. A lot of people feel like the Android environment is more buggy and problematic to develop for. What is true is that you need to invest more to develop for iOS and that you are more limited in what you do, developing on it is made rather smooth though. Again, I agree initial cost and problems are small on Android, any fool can make an app with the Android App Creator, too, but we are talking about high end applications, not all the crappy apps no one will ever look at (10 minute apps)

The number of steps that need to be taken in order to render the same information/functions on the screen, is greater for iOS application development. This is what I meant by "fact." While the programming is supposed to be 4GL, it feels like the lengthy coding of 3GL yesteryear. (Dead serious.) Making the same exact app for Android took about 30 minutes: it took 5 days with at least 1 hour and 20 minutes of effort to do the same thing in Cocoa. This is what I mean by "fact."

And, to the rest of your posting: many people feel that the iOS environment is buggy and problematic and that Apple doesn't really care about the developers. Whereas, Google, is consistantly updating their OS to be as app-developer friendly as possible. This is why applications are "projected" to surpass iTunes apps. in less than 2 years. (Almost on target to make up the time interval between the G1's release and the original Edge iPhone Coincidence? I think not. )

Originally posted by Bardock42
Not for Tablets yet.

I'm not sure what you're talking about: you can install any apps from the Android Market that are in the Android Market. Are you talking about exclusive (not the "ported" HD remakes) iPad apps? Those, I assume, will remain exclusive. Similar to the new "Amazon" store application being exclusive to Android.


Originally posted by Bardock42
I suppose there's no way for us to quantify this.

Considering Java development has been around much longer than iOS, I'd say it's easy to see why bug fixes are easier for Android.




Originally posted by Bardock42
Again we are going into opinion, Android to me runs less smooth, even if its specs are superior. Apple can completely focus on the one set of specs they have, it's the same reason, why console gaming (and developing) is so popular.

I'm unsure of how you came to that conclusion with never having used a comparable Honeycomb tablet, yet. Neither you nor I have handled a comparable Honeycomb tablet, nor have we handled the iPad 2. I've seen videos for Honeycomb and I've handled the iPad "1". The Xoom looked snappy and intuitive, as did the iPad 2.



Originally posted by Bardock42
I am totally with you on Apple being generally overprized for similar things (they try to sell unquantifiable things). The thing is...it's the opposite in the tablet market. They are insanely cheap, yet still have this unquantifiable thing they strive for. I think you can blame them with almost everything they sell for selling it at a much higher price as they could (though that's their business, if it sells I don't care, I don't have to buy it) from iPods to iMacs...but not the iPad, which is one of the reasons why I feel really good about making the choice to get an iPad, it's an experience buy, really, and it doesn't even cost me as much as the competition (where I have to worry that the same experience but slightly better will be there next week, rather than next year)

I agree on the first part. I mentioned "computers" and not Tablets, though a pedant could point out that Tablets/Slates are computers, too: but we both know what I was talking about. hehe

But, I disagree about them being insanely cheap, as well.

The Wi-Fi only version of the Xoom is $599 or $539 (depending on where you buy it. There's a "leak" that shows a Sams price of $539, but most say $599) That is comparable pricing for the iPad 2 (Wi-Fi only version), which is less feature-rich (no USB, crappier cameras and resolution, no Flash future, etc.), so you're actually getting more with the Xoom Wi-Fi only version.

If you compare apples to apples, the Xoom is only $70 more and you're getting much more, in hardware, as well.

The price argument is an excellent one if we were talking about the iPad, but not the iPad 2.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I am with you on wanting those things in iPhones, but I can't fault them for their business strategy, it works, it's perhaps the best business strategy in the world today.

As far as marketing consumer devices, yes, they are the best in the world, currently. I would like to give Jobs credit for a lot of that Corporate Culture, though: he drives a lot of that hype and "attitude" that creates the mad-consumerism.

Originally posted by Bardock42
As for the app thing, perhaps that is turning now in the US, or perhaps you are in certain circles where it is prevalent, but as far as I can tell, iPhones still have the more respectable status, and many people buying Android devices don't know and don't care what OS they have. They don't about iPhones either, but if someone says I have an iPhone everyone in the know, knows it is iOS. If they say, "I bought some smartphone" and you ask "What OS? Android, Bada, WebOs, Symbian?" you'll most of the time get a "I don't know".

It's different here because I'm surrounded by nothing but educated techies: at work, at school, and the family. Even my wife's sister's and my mother-in-law have Android fever, now. My sister-in-law was rubbing it in my face that she had an "active desktop" for her Samsung Galaxy. She said, "Wow, Dominic, look at this awesome active screen that I have? *shows me the desktop* Can your iPhone do this? hahahahah." Evilness, right?



Originally posted by Bardock42
Again, I don't think you get their strategy, to them it is not a game of specs. The people getting orgasms over specs are few and not the people they want.

Oh, I get it, alright. It's he sheeples fault for falling for the stupid hysteria that Apple tricks the market into eating like it's the best medicine to cure what ails their consumer electronics itch.



Originally posted by Bardock42
100 000 of 15 million, so it might increase their sales by 0.6%. But doesn't consider what the increased price, an possible problems with the OS working well with it (or conversely the price to make it fit) will lose them in customers.

I mean, I am with you in theory, I'd like those things, but you have to see it from their perspective, it would be completely insane to do it.

I believe your opinion, above, will change when you see my other post about comparable price points.

But, for the sake of only discussing the sentiments presented in your post, yes, I would agree: the Wii greatly outsold the PS3, in the beginning, and surveys showed the reason as being, the majority of the time, the price. That's it! So, price is a really big deal in some situations.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Android will surpass Apple most likely, but Apple won't "fall" they don't care about having the majority in the market, and they will likely increase their profits. The smartphone market is not a zero-sum game, yet.

I'm not entirely sure. The Gartner Group predicts market saturation of "touch-interface" smartphones to be between 30-40%. That would be the "zero-sum" point, you mentioned...AKA, market saturation.

http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/23/smartphone-iphone-sales-2009-gartner/

Originally posted by Bardock42
Do you consider that good?

I personally think, it might be okay for Motorola, they can be alright with it. But the iPad will sell millions in the first month, I can already guarantee that.


That is definitely good. That's a monumental accomplishment as it represents the first and only "true" competition for the iPad 2. Keep in mind that Xoom will have had just barely over a month for sales in Q1. Apple will have one day under 3 weeks, for Q1.

Considering that Xoom had to take on the "hype" machine that is Apple, it's astounding that the experts peg the Xoom to accomplish that much.





Originally posted by Bardock42
Also just to make this point again (not for you dadudemon, I think you know that).


DESPITE THEIR (FAIR) REPUTATION FOR OVERPRICED PRODUCTS THE IPAD IS THE CHEAPEST HIGH QUALITY TABLET YOU CAN BUY RIGHT NOW

Ha! That's kind of wrong, as I pointed out, earlier.

But, yeah, my point, earlier, was about their laptps and Desktops: not tablets.

I can see we still have a lot of disagreement, but these posts are just eating up too much of my time, so I think I'll let it stand here as it is.

Originally posted by dadudemon

But, for the sake of only discussing the sentiments presented in your post, yes, I would agree: the Wii greatly outsold the PS3, in the beginning, and surveys showed the reason as being, the majority of the time, the price. That's it! So, price is a really big deal in some situations.

Well, yes, because the PS3 was originally $600. It also didn't help that Sony's marketing strategy for the thing was completely incomprehensible and it took them years to properly market the thing. Also, while the PS3 went through many price drops, it was only after Wii and Xbox 360 sales plateaued that PS3 sales started to go up.

Also the fact that Nintendo marketed the Wii towards non-gamers and casual gamers and families with small children helped - many people who ordinarily would never have bought a console did.

Anyway, on topic, personally I find tablets to be a waste of money. My laptop that I have now cost barely more than one of those. Given a choice, though, I would not go with Apple. The very fact that they don't have USB or Flash is a big, big dealbreaker.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I can see we still have a lot of disagreement, but these posts are just eating up too much of my time, so I think I'll let it stand here as it is.

This is why I called: it was much faster.

Originally posted by Peach
Well, yes, because the PS3 was originally $600. It also didn't help that Sony's marketing strategy for the thing was completely incomprehensible and it took them years to properly market the thing. Also, while the PS3 went through many price drops, it was only after Wii and Xbox 360 sales plateaued that PS3 sales started to go up.

Also the fact that Nintendo marketed the Wii towards non-gamers and casual gamers and families with small children helped - many people who ordinarily would never have bought a console did.

I do not remember if Nintendo pushed the point that their console costed less than the 360 and PS3: did they do that? If they did, it was obviously a good "strategy."

Originally posted by Peach
Anyway, on topic, personally I find tablets to be a waste of money. My laptop that I have now cost barely more than one of those. Given a choice, though, I would not go with Apple. The very fact that they don't have USB or Flash is a big, big dealbreaker.

I know right? I want one for watching TV in bed or for long road trips. But, that's "null" with those rotating screen touch laptops.

I think the Wii is a great example of what game Apple is in, too. The Wii is a totally different environment. Xbox and PS3 are competing on the same turf, working for the same type of game exclusives, touting specs, the Wii goes for a different market completely, different games altogether and even a different demographic.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think the Wii is a great example of what game Apple is in, too. The Wii is a totally different environment. Xbox and PS3 are competing on the same turf, working for the same type of game exclusives, touting specs, the Wii goes for a different market completely, different games altogether and even a different demographic.

The Wii went for a broader demographic, not a different one. They wanted to "hook" hardcore and non-gamers and they did just that. How many of us bought a Wii just to play Zelda TWP? *slowly raises hand*

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is why I called: it was much faster.



I do not remember if Nintendo pushed the point that their console costed less than the 360 and PS3: did they do that? If they did, it was obviously a good "strategy."



I know right? I want one for watching TV in bed or for long road trips. But, that's "null" with those rotating screen touch laptops.

As far as I can recall, none of them really placed any emphasis on the price of the console unless a price drop occurred. Instead Nintendo's advertising revolved heavily around showing families playing together and stuff like that, while Sony's consisted of...exploding baby dolls in an empty room with a PS3. Nintendo set out to snag not only their regular audience but a new one that had never before been catered to by developers, whereas Sony expected to just ride on the success of the PS2.

Eh, I feel like they somewhat moved away from "hardcore" gamers, sure they took Nintendo fans with them, but generally they are not trying to actively please traditional gamers (and like Apple I can't blame them for that)


Also I feel like I have to clarify, I am not a rabid Apple fanboy, on the contrary, I am very unhappy with many things they do, generally I am a fan of Android, but I can't help appreciating what Apple has done for consumers and technology in the last 10 years. I dislike some of their rhetoric and I like a certain type of people that are fans of Apple, but generally I think having Apple is a good thing, just like having Android is a good thing.

Originally posted by jaden101
2011 is the year you will see the iPhone etc fall to Android.

what about the iphone 5 with a rumored retinal display, a screen a half inch wider than the ip4's screen, it's faster, has higher res, higher pixels, facial recognition as an optional passcode, 4g and 3d?

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
what about the iphone 5 with a rumored retinal display, a screen a half inch wider than the ip4's screen, it's faster, has higher res, higher pixels, facial recognition as an optional passcode, 4g and 3d?

If the iPhone 5 doesn't have a "Retina Display" after the hype they made about it on the iPhone 4 that would be insane.

The rest of what you said seem like unfounded rumors. And you seem to have repeated the screen resolution point thrice.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Eh, I feel like they somewhat moved away from "hardcore" gamers, sure they took Nintendo fans with them, but generally they are not trying to actively please traditional gamers (and like Apple I can't blame them for that)


Also I feel like I have to clarify, I am not a rabid Apple fanboy, on the contrary, I am very unhappy with many things they do, generally I am a fan of Android, but I can't help appreciating what Apple has done for consumers and technology in the last 10 years. I dislike some of their rhetoric and I like a certain type of people that are fans of Apple, but generally I think having Apple is a good thing, just like having Android is a good thing.

I definitely do not consider you an Apple fanboy: you were one of the ones, back in 2008, that showed me the goodness of Android.

Originally posted by Bardock42
If the iPhone 5 doesn't have a "Retina Display" after the hype they made about it on the iPhone 4 that would be insane.

The rest of what you said seem like unfounded rumors. And you seem to have repeated the screen resolution point thrice.


I could be giving FotN too much credit, but that's what I thought he meant when he made his post. But, here goes:

Higher resolution != higher pixels from what I think he's trying to say.


I think he means ppi versus overall resolution. Those are both good measures for "improved image." The Xoom as like 150 ppi and the iPad 2 130 ppi, meaning, the density is greater to the eyes for the Xoom. Additionally, the Xoom has a higher overall resolution.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I definitely do not consider you an Apple fanboy: you were one of the ones, back in 2008, that showed me the goodness of Android.




I could be giving FotN too much credit, but that's what I thought he meant when he made his post. But, here goes:

Higher resolution != higher pixels from what I think he's trying to say.


I think he means ppi versus overall resolution. Those are both good measures for "improved image." The Xoom as like 150 ppi and the iPad 2 130 ppi, meaning, the density is greater to the eyes for the Xoom. Additionally, the Xoom has a higher overall resolution.

PPI is a function of Higher Resolution and Screen Size, but I can see what he means, it just seems like it could have been combined to one, it's definitely somewhat redundant as "Retina Display" is defined as 326 PPI, but I don't mean to be hating on FOTN.

I'd like if some of his points were true, a bigger screen would be nice, 4G would be nice, and a PPI could be nice too (though the iPhone screen is already pretty sweet). I am looking forward to the iPhone 5 anyways, and I could imagine that they will introduce a cheaper category device, too...could be a good move for them. An iPhone Nano so to speak.

Originally posted by Bardock42
If the iPhone 5 doesn't have a "Retina Display" after the hype they made about it on the iPhone 4 that would be insane.

The rest of what you said seem like unfounded rumors. And you seem to have repeated the screen resolution point thrice.

i already pointed out that they were rumors.

and no need for patronage. it didn't "seem" redundant. i in fact did point out it's high res 3 times, just differently.

my bad.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
i already pointed out that they were rumors.

and no need for patronage. it didn't "seem" redundant. i in fact did point out it's high res 3 times, just differently.

my bad.



Well, but there's likely, backed up rumours, and there's random guessing rumours, you know?

Originally posted by Bardock42
PPI is a function of Higher Resolution and Screen Size, but I can see what he means, it just seems like it could have been combined to one, it's definitely somewhat redundant as "Retina Display" is defined as 326 PPI, but I don't mean to be hating on FOTN.

I'd like if some of his points were true, a bigger screen would be nice, 4G would be nice, and a PPI could be nice too (though the iPhone screen is already pretty sweet). I am looking forward to the iPhone 5 anyways, and I could imagine that they will introduce a cheaper category device, too...could be a good move for them. An iPhone Nano so to speak.

PPI is going to be more conducive to "retina display" which fits nicely parallel to what he was saying. Higher resolution could mean jack. 1024x800 on a 100" screen would like crap from only 2 feet away. lol!

Yeah, the iPhone 4 is SUPPOSED to be a retina display. So, there should be one for the iPhone 5.

Originally posted by dadudemon
PPI is going to be more conducive to "retina display" which fits nicely parallel to what he was saying. Higher resolution could mean jack. 1024x800 on a 100" screen would like crap from only 2 feet away. lol!

Yeah, the iPhone 4 is SUPPOSED to be a retina display. So, there should be one for the iPhone 5. It's not that important anyways.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Considering Java development has been around much longer than iOS, I'd say it's easy to see why bug fixes are easier for Android.


I just read over this again, bit Apples to Oranges. Objective C has in fact been around 10 years longer than Java.

Thank you ^^

Originally posted by yamasaki
Thank you ^^

You're welcome, man.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I just read over this again, bit Apples to Oranges. Objective C has in fact been around 10 years longer than Java.


I agree that it's Apples to Androids. 313

I see a major difference between developing in a very Java-like API versus the Cocoa API.


What I see is an existing language being used with some additional API for Android. For iOS, I see an entire API developed just the iPhone (and, then, updated for the iPad, iPad Touch)

It's very hard to explain what I mean.

Here's the only way to explain it:

Program in Java.

Program in objective C.

Now, convert the program you wrote in Java to work with the Android API, still using Eclipse, but with the Android plug-in installed.

Now, convert your Objective C program to work on the iPhone using Cocoa API.



Which one is easier (assuming you know nothing of the mobile APIs but are well-versed in each of the original languages.)

The obvious answer is converting the Java program.


Additionally, saying that the Cocoa API is the same thing as writing in Objective C is like saying that Java is the same as C#: there's that much of a difference for iOS programming. Not so, with the Android development.



edit - Android's initial problems were with a shitty API...from what I hear.

Havind tested some and seen more development on a Mac using XCode for iPhone as well as on Windows using Eclipse for Android, I can't say you are correct. Not that Android is particularly hard, but iPhone development is made quite easy with Apple's tools.

I can't exactly say how different coding for the iPhone is from traditional Objective C coding, vs. how different coding for Android is vs. traditional Java programs (as I am not knowledgable on the languages really), but from what I read traditional Java coding is different from Android coding. I don't think it's a real issue though, I don't think it's frustratingly hard to develop for one of the platforms over the other.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Havind tested some and seen more development on a Mac using XCode for iPhone as well as on Windows using Eclipse for Android, I can't say you are correct. Not that Android is particularly hard, but iPhone development is made quite easy with Apple's tools.

I can't exactly say how different coding for the iPhone is from traditional Objective C coding, vs. how different coding for Android is vs. traditional Java programs (as I am not knowledgable on the languages really), but from what I read traditional Java coding is different from Android coding. I don't think it's a real issue though, I don't think it's frustratingly hard to develop for one of the platforms over the other.



Don't take my word for it: take the word from a programmer that programs on both platforms, for a living:

(hint, control+f the word "easier"

http://www.linkedin.com/answers/technology/wireless/TCH_WIR/626542-104655


Edit - Just checked, but, apparantly, that's a rather searched topic on google search.

http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/special-reports/its-easier-create-applications-android-iphone

Apparantly, lots of people asked the same question.


Double edit - AHA! This is what I was looking for. It references a study that showed very few programmers knew how to program in cocoa, making it a limiting platform for application development:
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/ make_your_own_iphone_android_apps_with_new_generat
or.php

We can find articles on both sides, which supports my point of "It's not a clear cut issue with an advantage to either"


http://www.androiddevelopmenttalk.com/android-app-development/android-app-development-a-difficult-process-says-facebook-app-developer/


http://www.articlesnatch.com/Article/The-Pitfalls-Of-Android-Development/984816


http://www.quora.com/How-difficult-is-it-to-develop-on-the-Android-platform-when-you-are-familar-with-iPhone

Oh I didn't read it yet, but you might enjoy this anyways, it looks like it is quite in depth:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2011/03/ars-reviews-the-motorola-xoom.ars/

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh I didn't read it yet, but you might enjoy this anyways, it looks like it is quite in depth:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2011/03/ars-reviews-the-motorola-xoom.ars/

Yeah, none of that review is new for me.

Here's the difference between Motorola and Apple:

No Flash available.

Motorola's actions: We'll send an update as soon as we have the bugs worked out (soon...could be up to the 90 days.)

Apple's Actions: **** you and the horse you rode in on.


No SD-Card support yet:

Motorola's actions: We'll send an update as soon as we have the bugs worked out. (90 day from launch was the reported info.)

Apple's Actions: No SD Card after 4 years: **** you and the idea that we need to do something like that. We'd rather you pay between 50-100 dollars for a bigger hard drive and use our cumbersome iTunes application on your computer for backups. Eff-doing it on the fly.


No 3G/4G Support due to a lack of Hardware:

Motorola: As soon as we have it complete, we will do it completely for free for you.

Apple: **** you. We'll sell you another model for $200 with a contract in a year. (That applies to both their 4G and 3G.)




Are you seeing a pattern, here? This is the "why" on the hate for Apple's practices. Why do that do it? Because morons continue to buy their shit no matter what they put out. If people would just say, "woah...woah...woah. Apple, you need to get your shit together or comp us." Then MAYBE Apple would think twice before they did their charades. It's obvious that Motorola cannot afford to do that because they do not have a massive "buy whatever we put out" following like Apple does.

Perhaps this tablet is to your liking: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/buy/featured/asus/default.aspx

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I kind of feel the same way. The only reason smart phones and tablets hold any interest to me is because I love technology, and they represent a new generation of technology. But... give me a laptop any day. My cellphone has a camera, a qwerty keyboard, and a GPS app. That's all I want. That being said, to at least somewhat address the actual topic:


2.Which will win in 2 years? Don't really know. A couple of years ago I would say that Apple will win simply because they're Apple, and that's one of the most influential brand names in history. However lately I've seen more and more people choose other competing products instead of Apple's, so I guess people are smarter than that.

3. How will this change the way we think and go about our computing needs/wants? Not for the better, imo.

4. Which Slate-type of device would you rather own? iPad 2 or a Xoom/Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1?

I have a stigma against Apple products. So the second choice.

5. Is price a big consideration for both yourself and the market?

For me definitely. As noted above I'd sooner buy a good laptop than a smartphone or a tablet. But if the price for one is low enough that I could buy it and not miss the money, than sure I'd get one. I'm like that too. I'd take a laptop, but for say my cousin who's a teenage girl, or for someone like my mom, they're wonderful.

For me, I use computers for business and typing, and gaming, so I'd take a laptop. Plus I have a touchscreen phone and I have a PSP, which handle all of my needs.

I recommend funny bumper ball,It is a simple puzzle game. very fun!

I can see android tablets having a very valid place I'm tablet hierarchy.

The only problem I see is that people tend to do this:

Which do you want iPad or android tablet...
Let's Presume sales are even right now... Though they arent...

You still have android tablet VS other android tablet VS other... Etc etc...

It makes it more difficult on the consumer to back a single hardware... Whereas with apple yout choice is simple. Course then you don't make as much profit.. And with android you might ut corners to get the profit margins... Etc etc...

Whereas apple makes it up by selling in bulk...

If google were to back say Samsung... Solely... I could see the stood platform easily overtaking apple... But as of right now the tablet market seems more fragmented than anything else.