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Cage match. Voldie gets his wand, and Jafar is at 2nd wish "Most Powerful Sorcerer in The World" levels

Who's winning this?

I'd wager Jafar honestly.

Oh for Pete's sake!

Voldie stomp, and he does it blindfolded. The HP h8 is a little bit silly here. Wizards can apparate effectively in combat, so the Hourglass is out. Voldemort is all about giant snakes, so the Cobra is less of a problem than it could be, and transfiguration is all kinds of useful for undoing transfiguration. Jafar's three powers are outmatched and more than outgunned by the Wizard. The Killing Curse oneshots everything; Jafar is going down.

Then Nagini eats that annoying parrot.

Jafar launched an entire tower so far it looked like it made it to the North Pole. Realize how far that is from Arabia. Jafar did this without needing to say any words and he did it casually. Only shot Voldey has is aparation which, considering it is a cage area, will not do him much good.

Jafar ends him without much problem....

This of course is assuming Voldey is not immortal.

Make this Jafar's Genie form and he's got himself a win. But mortal Jafar can still be Avada'd.

Jafar can transfigure better than any Wizard was seen doing. He also has "good enough" reflexes for most wizards, but I think Volde is just a bit too much. Really, though, we'd have to see how far Jafar could take his powers. He'd also need much more practice to get used to his obviously superior powers. It seemed like nothing was the limit for his powers.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Jafar launched an entire tower so far it looked like it made it to the North Pole. Realize how far that is from Arabia. Jafar did this without needing to say any words and he did it casually. Only shot Voldey has is aparation which, considering it is a cage area, will not do him much good.

Jafar ends him without much problem....

This of course is assuming Voldey is not immortal.

I was just the mountains. That's where the snow was coming from. You could see Agrabah in the distance. It was like...10 miles or something.

Does that take a poop on you argument/support of Jafar?

Not really. He casually levitated a giant tower and sent it flying like a golf ball. That's still more power than Voldey can hope to deal with.

And if I could find a quality video of it, I'd double check your statement. Sadly I can't and I unfortunately do not own Aladdin yet.

Jafar still wins so I can't see how it matters.

Norris comes in and Roundhouse kicks them.

what makes you people think a reality warper would lose to voldie?

I'd say Volde wins due to his speed and knowing his own powers inside and out.



If Jafar had more practice and "duels", yeah, he's obviously the far better Wizard/sorcerer.

Bump

Jafar, easily.

Originally posted by dadudemon



I was just the mountains. That's where the snow was coming from. You could see Agrabah in the distance. It was like...10 miles or something.

Does that take a poop on you argument/support of Jafar?
That's bull. It was the "ENDS OF THE EARTH!" I own and watch Aladdin frequently you can't see Agrobah in the distance.

Jafar wins

Hey this is an old thread... I'm arguing with an ancient.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Not really. He casually levitated a giant tower and sent it flying like a golf ball. That's still more power than Voldey can hope to deal with.

And if I could find a quality video of it, I'd double check your statement. Sadly I can't and I unfortunately do not own Aladdin yet.

Jafar still wins so I can't see how it matters.
Voldemort single-handedly took down the barrier protecting Hogwarts from the Death Eaters' invasion TDH2.

I'd say that off the 2, Voldemort has the better combat experience, and they are close enough in power with a slight edge to Jafar. All in all, a good fight, and Voldemort wins 6/10 imo.

If this were Genie-Jafar though, he'd solo everyone in the HPverse combined.

That was done with the Elder Wand, which he doesn't have here.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Voldemort single-handedly took down the barrier protecting Hogwarts from the Death Eaters' invasion TDH2.

I'd say that off the 2, Voldemort has the better combat experience, and they are close enough in power with a slight edge to Jafar. All in all, a good fight, and Voldemort wins 6/10 imo.

If this were Genie-Jafar though, he'd solo everyone in the HPverse combined.

No he didn't. The Death Eaters had been weakening the barrier for quite a bit of time before he finally stepped in and did the final attack that took it down. That's like saying a guy gets jumped, and then a guy who'd done nothing until he was bruised and battered hops in and knocks him out. And you claim the guy who knocked him out single handedly beat him up.

Originally posted by KingD19
No he didn't. The Death Eaters had been weakening the barrier for quite a bit of time before he finally stepped in and did the final attack that took it down. That's like saying a guy gets jumped, and then a guy who'd done nothing until he was bruised and battered hops in and knocks him out. And you claim the guy who knocked him out single handedly beat him up.
He destroyed a big chunk of the MoM in OOP as well. Maybe that barrier breaking feat isn't 100% under his own power, but we've seen enough of his feats to know that he's not far behind Jafar in terms of power/versatility.

I'd disagree, to be honest.

Jafar's feat of outright tossing a tower for miles with a casual swing of his staff (Compared to Voldemort's strained and exerted blast on the shield) puts him in terms of power quite a bit above Voldemort.

That's just an ordinary medieval Arab tower compared to an advanced magical shield cast by dozens of experienced mages.

IIRC, The movie didn't show dozens of people casting the shield...what it did show was several Wizards firing on the shield before Tom was able to finish it off with a sustained blast from the Elder wand.

BTW, the OP doesn't state that Tom has the Elder wand for this fight.

Originally posted by Epicurus
That's just an ordinary medieval Arab tower compared to an advanced magical shield cast by dozens of experienced mages. "That's just quantifiable while the other one is not"

I agree.

^Voldemort never had access to the Elder Wand's power. Nice try btw.

Originally posted by Epicurus
^Voldemort never had access to the Elder Wand's power. Nice try btw.

What wand was Tom using during that feat?

The wand that didn't give him its true power since he wasn't its real owner.

Voldy using the Elder wand in that instance was no different from Voldy using any other wand.

Then post an equal feat where he used his normal wand.

Originally posted by Silent Master
What wand was Tom using during that feat?

He was using the Elder Wand. but, I'm afraid that Quan was right in that Tom had to force his power through the Elder Wand's resistance to him, hence why it started cracking.

However, that said, I am still of the belief that Jafar would win in a direct fight, not due to feats, but due to the wish that was made to the Genie. "The most powerful sorcerer in the world"... I know, lame assed excuse, but that, combined with the tower launch, and the giant cobra transformation, (of which would make Jafar immune to parceltongue simply because it still is Jafar) edges out Tom's shield break.

I know Quan will come in one day and scream that the shield disintegrated bodes and all that jizm, but that does not annotate the shields durability.

It's true that he wasn't the wand's master, but he was still able to use it and that feat sh!ts all over the feats he performed using his own wand...so either the wand increased his performance or the feat is massive PIS.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It's true that he wasn't the wand's master, but he was still able to use it and that feat sh!ts all over the feats he performed using his own wand...so either the wand increased his performance or the feat is massive PIS.

I think it may be a mix of both A and B.

Consider this, Tom, despite all that power, was still bested in direct confrontation by Harry, twice.

The second time, he got disintegrated, by a teenager who is technically a Hogwarts dropout.

Jafar stomps from what I gather

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I think it may be a mix of both A and B.

Consider this, Tom, despite all that power, was still bested in direct confrontation by Harry, twice.

The second time, he got disintegrated, by a teenager who is technically a Hogwarts dropout.

Well, Tom was always a bit of a coward and he wasn't nearly as good at magic as people like to claim., that was pretty much established in the first movie and never changed IMO

Originally posted by Silent Master
Well, Tom was always a bit of a coward and he wasn't nearly as good at magic as people like to claim., that was pretty much established in the first movie and never changed IMO

True, but the same could also be applied to Jafar.... Well, up until he became a genie...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
True, but the same could also be applied to Jafar.... Well, up until he became a genie...

True, but at least Jafar was never killed by a helpless baby...that and the only time Tommy was able to beat James and Lily was when they were unarmed and caught by surprise.

Hmm, I thought the flashbacks made Lily aware of Voldemort's presence after James was killed.

Ah well, Jafar may have lost his cowardice once he became virtually nigh omnipotent, but with that power he simply went full retard.

http://i55.tinypic.com/r0nxus.jpg

Originally posted by Silent Master
True, but at least Jafar was never killed by a helpless baby...that and the only time Tommy was able to beat James and Lily was when they were unarmed and caught by surprise.

Don't the flashback show James trying to hold back Voldemort only to die with wand in hand?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Don't the flashback show James trying to hold back Voldemort only to die with wand in hand?

I don't recall a wand and the only flashback scene I found on youtube was when Hagrid told Harry about Tommy and that one only showed Lily.

Do you remember which movie had the flashback that showed James?

Originally posted by Silent Master
I don't recall a wand and the only flashback scene I found on youtube was when Hagrid told Harry about Tommy and that one only showed Lily.

Do you remember which movie had the flashback that showed James?

There is quite a few of them, but the most clear one is Snape's memories in DH2

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
There is quite a few of them, but the most clear one is Snape's memories in DH2

I won't be able to check until after work, does it show James fighting back?

IIRC no, he was dead on the ground. Snape arrived after the fact.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I don't recall a wand and the only flashback scene I found on youtube was when Hagrid told Harry about Tommy and that one only showed Lily.

Do you remember which movie had the flashback that showed James?

I think it was from the last movie, granted it's been a while since I saw it so it's entirely possible that I misremember. But then again the flashbacks are all over the place. Will see if I can locate it when I come home.

Thank you.

No it was clearly stayed that James died bravely with no wand in hand and Voldemort then tried to reason with Lilly

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
No it was clearly stayed that James died bravely with no wand in hand and Voldemort then tried to reason with Lilly

You made my Sarcasm detector explode....

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then post an equal feat where he used his normal wand.
Him blowing up half the ministry during his battle with Dumbledore.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Him blowing up half the ministry during his battle with Dumbledore.

They didn't even destroy the room they were in, stop exaggerating feats.

Originally posted by Silent Master
They didn't even destroy the room they were in, stop exaggerating feats.
I am presuming that that the thousands of glass shards which got redirected at Dumbledore(who was also wielding the Elder Wand at that time as its true owner) just randomly popped out of nowhere then.

Since Voldemort obviously didn't bust anything. Or the fact that he was stalemating(even that is generous, considering that Vold was actually looking superior in that fight) against a legit Elder Wand owning user. I suppose that means nothing as well.

Jafar waves his hand, Voldemort goes into orbit.

Really, it doesn't matter what Voldie can blow up using hocus pocus when his opponent can gesture and warp reality.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then post an equal feat where he used his normal wand.

He has his normal wand throughout the books/films. When the elder wand changes hands, it only sometimes LITERALLY changes hands. In the HP instance, the Elder wand moves its spirit from wand to wand, Harry won it from Draco, Draco won it from Dumbledore because conquered Dumbledore's spirit.

Originally posted by Epicurus
I am presuming that that the thousands of glass shards which got redirected at Dumbledore(who was also wielding the Elder Wand at that time as its true owner) just randomly popped out of nowhere then.

He shattered a window... what a badass.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
He has his normal wand throughout the books/films. When the elder wand changes hands, it only sometimes LITERALLY changes hands. In the HP instance, the Elder wand moves its spirit from wand to wand, Harry won it from Draco, Draco won it from Dumbledore because conquered Dumbledore's spirit.


I know how the Elder wand works.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Him blowing up half the ministry during his battle with Dumbledore.

Uhm... He never did much damage to the actual structure. he did blow away most of the glass panes in that area of the building, to which Albus transformed the lot of it into sand, but neither could be considered particularly destructive feats.

Originally posted by Epicurus
I am presuming that that the thousands of glass shards which got redirected at Dumbledore(who was also wielding the Elder Wand at that time as its true owner) just randomly popped out of nowhere then.

Since Voldemort obviously didn't bust anything. Or the fact that he was stalemating(even that is generous, considering that Vold was actually looking superior in that fight) against a legit Elder Wand owning user. I suppose that means nothing as well.

Again, They didn't even destroy the room they were in, stop exaggerating feats.

F*ck all of this. Jafar drops the Owlery on Voldemort's head.

/thread

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, They didn't even destroy the room they were in, stop exaggerating feats.
Even if you want to ignore the fact that nothing was getting blown to bits in their fight(which is a blatant lie btw), you can't deny the fact that Voldemort was stalemating a legit Elder Wand wielder, and actually getting the better of him in their exchange. Not without resorting to outright lying about feats and onscreen facts.

Oh wait, that's what you always do when backed into a corner, like you are now.

Your claim was that he blew up "half the ministry" which isn't true, IOW stop exaggerating feats.

My claim was that the feats he performed with the Elder Wand would have been the same had he performed them with his own wand. Since he never acquired the wand's true power.

I used him demolishing a good chunk of the MoM as proof of the power he possessed. I also pointed out him stalemating a master of the Elder Wand was a feat in itself.

And you ignored all these facts like the awful troll that you are.

You were saying?

Originally posted by Epicurus
Him blowing up half the ministry during his battle with Dumbledore.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Even if you want to ignore the fact that nothing was getting blown to bits in their fight(which is a blatant lie btw), you can't deny the fact that Voldemort was stalemating a legit Elder Wand wielder, and actually getting the better of him in their exchange. Not without resorting to outright lying about feats and onscreen facts.

Oh wait, that's what you always do when backed into a corner, like you are now. Why should anyone care?

Jafar has demonstrated more raw magical might than the top five Wizards in Harry Potter combined.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You were saying?
That you are an awful troll.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why should anyone care?

Jafar has demonstrated more raw magical might than the top five Wizards in Harry Potter combined.
Based on that tower feat? Nah.

The difference is there, but it's not as massive as you make it out to be imo.

Casually hurling a tower that probably weighed several hundred tons with magic is more than the entire HP verse put together imo. And he also casually transformed into something even the most accomplished Animagus wouldn't even dare dream of. He essentially became a basilisk on command.

Originally posted by Epicurus
That you are an awful troll.

Pointing out your exaggerated claims makes me a troll?

Originally posted by Epicurus
That you are an awful troll.

I'm sorry Epicurus, but claiming that taking out all the glass panes in the hall of the Ministry, and comparing it to detonating half the ministry building are 2 very different things. In this case, SM called it right, you did exaggerate the feat, perhaps not purposely, but you did.

I will point out that Voldemort blasting chumks of the pillar Harry was leaning against during the fight with Dumbledore would also count, but that was hardly a destructive feat either.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I'm sorry Epicurus, but claiming that taking out all the glass panes in the hall of the Ministry, and comparing it to detonating half the ministry building are 2 very different things. In this case, SM called it right, you did exaggerate the feat, perhaps not purposely, but you did.

I will point out that Voldemort blasting chumks of the pillar Harry was leaning against during the fight with Dumbledore would also count, but that was hardly a destructive feat either.
It's called rhetorical hyperbole. Not exaggerating a feat. Not to mention that the actual issue being debated here is that Voldemort wasn't in control of the Elder Wand's power in DH2, so him obliterating that magic barrier isn't proof of his utilizing its power. Something which Silent Master claimed on the previous pages of this thread.

Him using the Elder Wand was no different from him using his own wand in that particular instance. Which is essentially further substantiated by his performance against Dumbledore, a highly skilled mage who was the both wielding and controlling the power of the Elder Wand in their fight.

Silent Master is just doing his tired old routine of trolling threads up and down the moment he gets backed into a corner.

Originally posted by Epicurus
It's called rhetorical hyperbole. Not exaggerating a feat. Not to mention that the actual issue being debated here is that Voldemort wasn't in control of the Elder Wand's power in DH2, so him obliterating that magic barrier isn't proof of his utilizing its power. Something which Silent Master claimed on the previous pages of this thread.

Him using the Elder Wand was no different from him using his own wand in that particular instance. Which is essentially further substantiated by his performance against Dumbledore, a highly skilled mage who was the both wielding and controlling the power of the Elder Wand in their fight.

Silent Master is just doing his tired old routine of trolling threads up and down the moment he gets backed into a corner.
Seriously? Like what are you even arguing? Voldermort doesn't have the Elder Wand in this situation. Read the OP.

Lets compare the feats of this OotP battle and the Aladdin battle.

Voldermort blew fire by bringing his hand to his mouth and with a look that looked like he was constipated. Jafar blew fire by giving the impression he was blowing out a candle.

Voldermort shattered the windows and caused visible but not structural damage to the room. Jaffar sent and entire spire to the ends of the earth.

Voldermort can kill instantly if not blocked by another wizard (or sorcerer) Jaffar can control everyone like puppets and turn them into thing or state he desires and still only has a day's experience. His transformations include: Monkey into toy, unravelling a magic carpet and turning himself into a snake who's size would make the basilisk run for mummy.

I honestly think Jafar wins and there isn't much point arguing anymore.

Originally posted by Epicurus
It's called rhetorical hyperbole. Not exaggerating a feat. Not to mention that the actual issue being debated here is that Voldemort wasn't in control of the Elder Wand's power in DH2, so him obliterating that magic barrier isn't proof of his utilizing its power. Something which Silent Master claimed on the previous pages of this thread.

Him using the Elder Wand was no different from him using his own wand in that particular instance. Which is essentially further substantiated by his performance against Dumbledore, a highly skilled mage who was the both wielding and controlling the power of the Elder Wand in their fight.

Silent Master is just doing his tired old routine of trolling threads up and down the moment he gets backed into a corner.

Like I said before, the fact that he had to push his power through the wand's resistance makes that feat even more impressive, but the base feat itself is not all that great. It is far too unknown, not enough is explained about the barrier.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Seriously? Like what are you even arguing? Voldermort doesn't have the Elder Wand in this situation. Read the OP.

Lets compare the feats of this OotP battle and the Aladdin battle.

Voldermort blew fire by bringing his hand to his mouth and with a look that looked like he was constipated. Jafar blew fire by giving the impression he was blowing out a candle.

Voldermort shattered the windows and caused visible but not structural damage to the room. Jaffar sent and entire spire to the ends of the earth.

Voldermort can kill instantly if not blocked by another wizard (or sorcerer) Jaffar can control everyone like puppets and turn them into thing or state he desires and still only has a day's experience. His transformations include: Monkey into toy, unravelling a magic carpet and turning himself into a snake who's size would make the basilisk run for mummy.

I honestly think Jafar wins and there isn't much point arguing anymore.
I am not arguing that Vold has the EW in this scenario. I am arguing against this silly idea that he needed the EW in order to break that magic barrier in DH2. Learn to read.

Lol, we are relying on facial expressions of 2 sociopathic characters to determine who waas exerting more?

It was half a tower, and not protected by the myriad of spells and enchantments which are usually bound to such structures in the HPverse.

So can Voldemort; via Imperio. Jafar is also not very clever since Aladdin was able to convince him to become a genie, without him realizing the side-effects of permanent slavery if he were turned into such. Lol, him turning into that snake is him essentially giving Vold a lollypop, or did you forget that Voldemort is a Parselmouth?

Nope, it's actually a fairly close fight imo, where arguments for either character can be made. Though I personally give Voldemort a 6/10 win on Jafar, simply due to greater experience at combating actual magical threats instead of bullying a bunch of normal weaklings.

And Harry tricked Voldemort for what? 5 movies? He outwitted Voldemort at pretty much every turn. Voldemort was just ruthless and had a lot of dark wizards at his disposal.

And tossing that tower still meant Jafar casually hurled hundreds of tons. Enchantments or whatever don't take away from that fact that he literally chucked a building with his brain across the planet. Also we saw that buildings weren't that well protected. Hogwarts had protection spells, but the actual building got damaged pretty good in that final fight. The Weasley house got burned to the ground, etc...

And Voldemort's parseltongue has no evidence of working on a human intelligence in the form of a snake.

You've giving him too much credit.

Being the OP, is it too late to grant Vold the Elder Wand?

Originally posted by KingD19
And Harry tricked Voldemort for what? 5 movies? He outwitted Voldemort at pretty much every turn. Voldemort was just ruthless and had a lot of dark wizards at his disposal.

And tossing that tower still meant Jafar casually hurled hundreds of tons. Enchantments or whatever don't take away from that fact that he literally chucked a building with his brain across the planet. Also we saw that buildings weren't that well protected. Hogwarts had protection spells, but the actual building got damaged pretty good in that final fight. The Weasley house got burned to the ground, etc...

And Voldemort's parseltongue has no evidence of working on a human intelligence in the form of a snake.

You've giving him too much credit.
Harry never outwitted Voldemort, as much as he simply got lucky. That much was made abundantly clear in both the books and the movies; Harry's "wins" over Voldemort weren't based off his own talents but the machinations of Dumbledore and protection afforded to him by his mother.

And a handful of Death Eaters collapsed the Millennium Bridge. If you don't know what it looks like, then here is a picture for reference:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Mill.bridge.from.tate.modern.arp.jpg
And we all know how DEs compare to Voldemort powerwise.

Considering that the Basilisk showcased human level intelligence when Harry heard it in the pipes...yes it does. Not to mention that the Boa Constrictor which Harry talked to also seemed to indicate human-level intelligence. Heck, even the snake-gate in which the Chamber of Secrets was locked could be controlled by Parseltongue.

Credit's given where credit's due. Voldemort has the firepower and experience to take the fight to Jafar, who's only ever fought non-magical weaklings. The sort of arguments being applied here are very similar to the crap which Dr Manhattan fanboys pull off when they claim he can beat people like the Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Being the OP, is it too late to grant Vold the Elder Wand?
Nope. You could always clarify you intended him to possess the wand, but forgot to put it in the OP.

Though I don't see the point since Voldemort was never in control of its power. I doubt that he even needs the EW in this thread tbh.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Being the OP, is it too late to grant Vold the Elder Wand?

Actually yes, the rules say that the stips need to be set within the first few posts.

Just because Voldermort can talk to snakes, doesn't mean he can control them. Plus Jaffar could turn in to anything he likes (minus genie).

The genie trick was good. Jaffar was power hungry and wanted to be No. 1. Which, if memory serves is Voldermort's goal a lot of the time. Any villain would fall into the same trap if they had a wish. Jaffar just didn't know about the slavery.

Jaffar turns Voldermort into a Cabbage Patch Doll.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Just because Voldermort can talk to snakes, doesn't mean he can control them. Plus Jaffar could turn in to anything he likes (minus genie).

The genie trick was good. Jaffar was power hungry and wanted to be No. 1. Which, if memory serves is Voldermort's goal a lot of the time. Any villain would fall into the same trap if they had a wish. Jaffar just didn't know about the slavery.

Jaffar turns Voldermort into a Cabbage Patch Doll.
Him being able to control the basilisk disproves that.

He didn't know about the slavery of a genie despite having a first-hand example of said limitation with the Genie? Contradiction much?

Voldy turns himself back. And then AKs Jafar.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Him being able to control the basilisk disproves that.

He didn't know about the slavery of a genie despite having a first-hand example of said limitation with the Genie? Contradiction much?

Voldy turns himself back. And then AKs Jafar.

Him being able to control the Basilisk was due to that particular one only being able to be controlled by Salazar Slytherin's heir, which was Voldemort. Harry was a parseltongue and couldn't control it. So the only 2 snakes he controlled was one he was destined to control, and one who was his pet.

As for turning himself back, how?

Originally posted by KingD19
Him being able to control the Basilisk was due to that particular one only being able to be controlled by Salazar Slytherin's heir, which was Voldemort. Harry was a parseltongue and couldn't control it. So the only 2 snakes he controlled was one he was destined to control, and one who was his pet.

As for turning himself back, how?
Ginny was also able to control it when she was being possessed by him.

By transfiguring himself back. Wizards can do that to themselves, as seen with Krum turning himself into a manshark in GoF.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Ginny was also able to control it when she was being possessed by him.

By transfiguring himself back. Wizards can do that to themselves, as seen with Krum turning himself into a manshark in GoF.

She was possessed by his essence, which gave her the ability to control it as Slytherin's heir was inside her in a sense. It was how she could speak parseltongue in the first place. Also since his book was a horcrux, that leads further evidence to the portion of his soul/essence in the journal controlling her and letting him use his powers through her.

And Krum used a spell on himself, and turned himself back. If Voldemort is turned into a head of lettuce, how will he possibly turn back? That's a wholly different thing.

Originally posted by KingD19
She was possessed by his essence, which gave her the ability to control it as Slytherin's heir was inside her in a sense. It was how she could speak parseltongue in the first place. Also since his book was a horcrux, that leads further evidence to the portion of his soul/essence in the journal controlling her and letting him use his powers through her.

And Krum used a spell on himself, and turned himself back. If Voldemort is turned into a head of lettuce, how will he possibly turn back? That's a wholly different thing.
Harry was possessed by a horcrux as well. The whole reason why he can speak parseltongue to begin with along with his unique connection to Voldemort. Yet he couldn't control the basilisk, as you yourself noted.

You do realize that Voldemort too will be turned via a spell, right? Or has super-sorcerer Jafar now been transitioned to Genie-Jafar?

Viktor turned himself with a spell and could still turn himself back. If Voldemort is turned into a vegetable, how do you expect him to turn himself back? Please enlighten me.

And Harry wasn't possessed by a Horcrux, he was a Horcrux, but he was unique because Lily's love for him twisted the spell. Also he was never possessed by Voldemort. Ginny was directly being possessed by him at the time.

By undoing it, since it is essentially transfiguration on paper. We already know that spells and potions in the HPverse can undo human metamorphosis like the mandrake's juice and Lupin/Sirius forcefully turning Wormtail back into a man.

That's a semantic-based difference only. Fact is, they both had a piece of Voldemort's soul inside them, which gave them both the unique gift of parseltongue.

It's not semantics. Ginny got possessed and taken over directly by Voldemort. Harry was simply a Horcrux by was not possessed and was not being guided directly.

And all these instances you're using are outside forces on a person. Not a person changing back after getting changed by an outside force. If he's a head of lettuce there's a chance he won't even be sentient. Even if he was he's a vegetable.

Yes it is. Nagini was also a regular viper being controlled by the fragment of soul latched inside her. They were all living beings that were hosting a portion of Voldemort's soul, portion which was created via murder.

Wormtail retained his intelligence as a rat. What proof do you have that such a tactic will even work on Voldemort who could easily shield himself from an attack like that?

Fake Moody transformed Draco into an animal and Draco wasn't able to change back.

^Comparing a noob teenage wizard like Draco to someone like Voldemort is a fail troll tactic even for you, Troll.

He's the one wizard that was transformed into something by another magic user during the movies...meaning he's the only example we have in order to form an opinion.

^

Is he wrong? He's not.

By all means, name another example of a wizard being turned into an object/animal against their will in the HP movies.

Originally posted by KingD19
Is he wrong? He's not.
So you subscribe to this silly notion of comparing Draco to Voldemort? Going by that ridiculous logic, Voldemort can't even defend himself from a simple spell since Draco couldn't either.

Awful.
Originally posted by Silent Master
By all means, name another example of a wizard being turned into an object/animal against their will in the HP movies.
How's about your brain being turned into fecal matter(which would be its real state), and then you being unable to recover from said transmutation?

Fecal-brained Silent Master FTW!

IOW, you can't name a single example where a wizard was able to change back after being transformed against their will.

Originally posted by Epicurus
So you subscribe to this silly notion of comparing Draco to Voldemort? Going by that ridiculous logic, Voldemort can't even defend himself from a simple spell since Draco couldn't either.

Awful.

How's about your brain being turned into fecal matter(which would be its real state), and then you being unable to recover from said transmutation?

Fecal-brained Silent Master FTW!

Epicurus... What's with you dude? They did ask a perfectly valid question, Wether or not Draco and Voldemort are comparable in terms of power and defence, that's not the issue, the issue is wether or not the spell can be undone by the victim while transmutated.

Sure, Voldemort would likely smack the spell away, as is the common defense against spells in Potterverse, but that's not the issue either, the question was, and remains, can Voldemort break the spell while under it's effect? The evidence suggests "no" because nobody has proven capable of doing so. So, we cannot give Voldemort the benefit of the doubt just because he is more powerful than Draco.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Epicurus... What's with you dude? They did ask a perfectly valid question, Wether or not Draco and Voldemort are comparable in terms of power and defence, that's not the issue, the issue is wether or not the spell can be undone by the victim while transmutated.

Sure, Voldemort would likely smack the spell away, as is the common defense against spells in Potterverse, but that's not the issue either, the question was, and remains, can Voldemort break the spell while under it's effect? The evidence suggests "no" because nobody has proven capable of doing so. So, we cannot give Voldemort the benefit of the doubt just because he is more powerful than Draco.
Considering that Draco is nowhere near Voldemort powerwise, and the fact that wizards like Voldemort can perform both non-verbal and wandless magic, it is completely feasible to say that they could easily undo their transformation if ever they were successfully turned. The likelihood of which is in itself is slim seeing the defensive capabilities of these wizards and their reflexes in battle.

But since we want actual examples, how's about Voldemort(and the Death Eaters and Order members in general) turning himself into smoke during apparition and then turning back? Is that good enough for you?

That effect was only added for the movie, as nowhere is there anything on half-apparating(flying), but even then that simply seems to be a side-effect of them using that form of transportation. Even then they still have their wands and are in a human form.

Originally posted by KingD19
That effect was only added for the movie, as nowhere is there anything on half-apparating(flying), but even then that simply seems to be a side-effect of them using that form of transportation. Even then they still have their wands and are in a human form.

Exactly, as we can clearly see Potter and Tommy boy struggling with each other while in mid-transport.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Considering that Draco is nowhere near Voldemort powerwise, and the fact that wizards like Voldemort can perform both non-verbal and wandless magic, it is completely feasible to say that they could easily undo their transformation if ever they were successfully turned. The likelihood of which is in itself is slim seeing the defensive capabilities of these wizards and their reflexes in battle.

But since we want actual examples, how's about Voldemort(and the Death Eaters and Order members in general) turning himself into smoke during apparition and then turning back? Is that good enough for you?

They aren't talking about self transformations here. Plenty of characters can undo their own transformations: Sirius, Peter Pettigrew, Dolores Umbridge, Minerva Mcgonnagil.... The list goes on and on....

That's very different from forced transformation from the spell of another being. Not to mention the apparition spell des not actually transform them into smoke, but rather shrouds them in it, as demonstrated by the physical fight in mid air between Tom and Harry in DH2.

There was also the fact that the Millenium Bridge was bending and swaying due to them flying by, and at least one Death Eater was shot while in flight and crashed into a building.

Lol. So if Voldemort turns into a head of lettuce, he can undo the transformation by what? Speaking the proper words? With what orifice?

What a red herring. If he's turned into a head of lettuce, that's a KO. Jafar could potentially lock him in a box, chuck him in the ocean, and go home to his harem. It's not a controlled transformation with prep beforehand; he's been undone by magic superior to his own; the most powerful wizard in the world and someone with a reality warping ability far beyond anything he can muster.

This thread was concluded a long time ago.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Lol. So if Voldemort turns into a head of lettuce, he can undo the transformation by what? Speaking the proper words? With what orifice?

What a red herring. If he's turned into a head of lettuce, that's a KO. Jafar could potentially lock him in a box, chuck him in the ocean, and go home to his harem. It's not a controlled transformation with prep beforehand; he's been undone by magic superior to his own; the most powerful wizard in the world and someone with a reality warping ability far beyond anything he can muster.

This thread was concluded a long time ago.

If he is turned into an insentient object he will not be able to turn himself back

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Lol. So if Voldemort turns into a head of lettuce, he can undo the transformation by what? Speaking the proper words? With what orifice?
Non-verbal spells.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Non-verbal spells.

What precedent is there for a wizard being turned into an inanimate object against their will by a superior wizard and then turning themselves back with non-verbal spells? Also, what does non-verbal in this case mean? He'll will it with the residual soul that rests within the lettuce? Or he'll furl a leaf in an attempt to gesture?

/redherring

/thread

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
What precedent is there for a wizard being turned into an inanimate object against their will by a superior wizard and then turning themselves back with non-verbal spells? Also, what does non-verbal in this case mean? He'll will it with the residual soul that rests within the lettuce? Or he'll furl a leaf in an attempt to gesture?

/redherring

/thread
Harry tried to use non-verbal spells when he was petrified by Draco in the train, in Half-Blood Prince. He failed, only because of his inexperience at performing such types of spells and lack of strength to perform wandless magic at a moment's notice. Voldemort has neither of these constraints.

A non-verbal spell is him essentially speaking a spell aloud in his mind.

So, what proof do you have that Tommy boy can reverse Jafar turning him into an inanimate object?

Silly. He doesn't need proof. He just needs to believe in the magic.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Voldemort has neither of these constraints.

A non-verbal spell is him essentially speaking a spell aloud in his mind.

As far as I remember no Harry Potter magician has ever performed such a complex transmutation spell without a wand. Also, objects have no brains, so such transmutation adds a layer of complexity when compared with Potter being paralyzed.

Originally posted by Bentley
As far as I remember no Harry Potter magician has ever performed such a complex transmutation spell without a wand.

Also, objects have no brains, so such transmutation adds a layer of complexity when compared with Potter being paralyzed.
Harry turned his aunt into a human balloon when he lost control of his emotions. And Voldemort easily operates in that power range at just his base levels.

Sorting Hat. Gryffindor's sword. Horcruxes. Heck, wands in general themselves. In the HPverse, an object doesn't need to have a brain in order to possess some sort of sentience.

All Harry did was inflate her, she was still human...where is the proof that Tommy boy can reverse being turned into an inanimate object?

Originally posted by Epicurus
Harry turned his aunt into a human balloon when he lost control of his emotions. And Voldemort easily operates in that power range at just his base levels.

Sorting Hat. Gryffindor's sword. Horcruxes. Heck, wands in general themselves. In the HPverse, an object doesn't need to have a brain in order to possess some sort of sentience.

This assumes that Jafar will necessarily make him a sentient head of lettuce. And again, this is well off point. Jafar already won the fight if Voldemort becomes anything from an ice cube in the desert to a carrot up some donkey's ass. He's not going to "I THINK I CAN I THINK I CAN" and then magically outfight a superior wizard.

So again:

/thread.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This assumes that Jafar will necessarily make him a sentient head of lettuce. And again, this is well off point. Jafar already won the fight if Voldemort becomes anything from an ice cube in the desert to a carrot up some donkey's ass. He's not going to "I THINK I CAN I THINK I CAN" and then magically outfight a superior wizard.

So again:

/thread.
Nope, but it does assume that Voldemort could possibly retain his sentience even in a transfigured state. And all of this is ignoring the fact that Voldemort can 1)cast protective spells to shield from such an onslaught and 2)apparate-dodge the incoming spell at his way.

So basically, you have zero feats of a wizard being able to reverse being turned into an inanimate object?

Originally posted by Epicurus
Nope, but it does assume that Voldemort could possibly retain his sentience even in a transfigured state. And all of this is ignoring the fact that Voldemort can 1)cast protective spells to shield from such an onslaught and 2)apparate-dodge the incoming spell at his way.

Jafar's spells appeared to change reality on a global scale, so where is Voldemort apparating to? The Moon?

bump

Why?