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Scenario 1: Mongul without rings
Scenario 2: Mongul with 3 rings

Cis and pis are off.

Who wins?

1) Split.
2) Mongul stomps.

Mongul's a joke. He couldn't even hit Superman.

Apocalypse wins in scenario 1 at least. Not sure about scenario 2.

You seem to be under the wrong assumption that Apocalypse can hit Superman

Considering all the people who have managed to hit Superman, I'd be correct to assume that Apocalypse would be able to hit Superman.

Superman's hittability varies.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Considering all the people who have managed to hit Superman, I'd be correct to assume that Apocalypse would be able to hit Superman.


Considering all the people Apocalypse has failed to kill, I consider he can't kill sh*t

Originally posted by Bentley
Considering all the people Apocalypse has failed to kill, I consider he can't kill sh*t

PIS and CIS are off here. In the Mongul-Superman fight, PIS and CIS weren't off.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
PIS and CIS are off here. In the Mongul-Superman fight, PIS and CIS weren't off.


With PIS and CIS off Apocalypse still can't hit Superman. I don't understand why we are discussing this.

Originally posted by Bentley
With PIS and CIS off Apocalypse still can't hit Superman

That's neither here nor there, as Mongul couldn't hit a PIS/CIS on Superman on paper.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
That's neither here nor there, as Mongul couldn't hit a PIS/CIS on Superman on paper.


You may be aware that PIS can actually help Superman evade Mongul? And that CIS doesn't make you auto-fight like an idiot?

My point is, your argument is meaningless, Apocalypse can't tag Superman, so Mongul failing to do it is null and void in this fight.

Originally posted by Bentley
You may be aware that PIS can actually help Superman evade Mongul? And that CIS doesn't make you auto-fight like an idiot?

My point is, your argument is meaningless, Apocalypse can't tag Superman, so Mongul failing to do it is null and void in this fight.

How? Mongul isn't a speedster whereas Superman can be when using his powers properly. It wouldn't have mattered if Mongul fought to the best of his abilities or not, he would've still got his ass kicked by a smart Superman simply because he isn't fast enough to hit him.

Apocalypse can't hit Superman based on what Bentley? When has he been portrayed as a slow character? Just because he's big in stature, doesn't mean that he's slow, buddy. He's tagged a moving Quicksilver before who, on average, has better combat speed than Superman.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How? Mongul isn't a speedster whereas Superman can be when using his powers properly. It wouldn't have mattered if Mongul fought to the best of his abilities or not, he would've still got his ass kicked by a smart Superman simply because he isn't fast enough to hit him.

Apocalypse can't hit Superman based on what Bentley? When has he been portrayed as a slow character? Just because he's big in stature, doesn't mean that he's slow, buddy. He's tagged a moving Quicksilver before who, on average, has better combat speed than Superman.


What does averages have to do with anything? You've failed to provide any actual reason to think speed matters here, I mean Kang has tagged QS too and you don't see me bragging about his speed compared with Superman. SM is faster than QS, Mongul, Apocalypse or anyone else shown in this thread; the fact he only decided to use that speed against Mongul doesn't prove anything here.

If Kal wanted to use speed against Pietro or Apocalypse they wouldn't tag him. You're using double standards so hard they're becoming triple standards

Apocalypse wins easy

Originally posted by Bentley
What does averages have to do with anything? You've failed to provide any actual reason to think speed matters here, I mean Kang has tagged QS too and you don't see me bragging about his speed compared with Superman. SM is faster than QS, Mongul, Apocalypse or anyone else shown in this thread; the fact he only decided to use that speed against Mongul doesn't prove anything here.

If Kal wanted to use speed against Pietro or Apocalypse they wouldn't tag him. You're using double standards so hard they're becoming triple standards
The speed disparity between kang and Qs is magnitudes less than between supes and mongul

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Mongul's a joke. He couldn't even hit Superman.

Apocalypse wins in scenario 1 at least. Not sure about scenario 2.
He's hit Superman before. He only failed to hit Superman when Superman blitzed him. The same would happen to Apoc if Superman took him seriously, don't kid yourself.

mongul both rounds

i like um both but mongul can only counter the badassery and versatility of apocalypse by stockpiling power rings.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/48/Apocmessiahwar1.png/250px-Apocmessiahwar1.png


btw did mongul even get a power battery? the dude just stole rings but i dont think i ever saw him power them up.. a ring or two should of run out of fear juice at some point. just a question.

1. not sure
2. Mongul easily

Mongul wins in second scenario and loses in the first.

Originally posted by spetznaz
If there was an inter-company exchange draft, Apoc is a character that needs to immediately move to DC.

He'd be a world beater. Not even a team beater ....a world beater.

This is why, for instance, I did not say who would win between MM and Apoc (because, if Apoc was written well he would be a nightmare). I decided to just concentrate on the underestimation of the Martian Manhunter (no need to touch on Apoc ....nearly everyone here knows he is written soppy and downgraded by Marvel, but MM on the other hand is written very well by DC, but most people on KMC still sleep on him ....although I'd bet most of those are Wikipedia-readers who never touch comics, check something out on Wiki, and then come and post). That is why i did not say MM would win, or Apoc would win.

But it's true .....in the same way that MM is slept on by KMC members, Apocalypse is SERIOUSLY slept on by Marvel Comics.

It is like he stole money or something! All credit to Spetznaz.

That being said, 3 rings is probably too much even for an Apocalypse that's actually well-written.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
i like um both but mongul can only counter the badassery and versatility of apocalypse by stockpiling power rings.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/48/Apocmessiahwar1.png/250px-Apocmessiahwar1.png


btw did mongul even get a power battery? the dude just stole rings but i dont think i ever saw him power them up.. a ring or two should of run out of fear juice at some point. just a question.

he got a battery when he got his actual ring, i thought.

Originally posted by Bentley
What does averages have to do with anything?

Everything, as the Mongul-Superman fight happened in a comic, not a forum. And Superman, in comics, on average, doesn't fight to the best of his abilities, regardless of his motive. So it's fair to assume that he didn't go all out when he blitzed Mongul. Get it?



So you're telling me that Superman, a character who rarely utilizes his super-speed on paper, can blitz an actual speedster who consistently utilizes his super-speed? Come on Bentley, you should know better. And it's not like Apocalypse was putting all his focus on Quicksilver when he tagged him; he was also busy fighting other characters.



In a forum? Sure. The Superman that blitzed Mongul? Maybe.



In his Rise of Apocalypse bio, he is credited to having the ability to give himself any physical power.

http://img16.imageshack.us/i/ohotmux05streetsamuraid.jpg/

And super-speed is a physical power, meaning that Apocalypse can give himself super-speed via shape-shifting. Does Mongul have super-speed? I douvt it.



Apocalyse has reacted to a speed-blitz from an actual speedster, has reacted to energy blasts in his fights, and is credited to having the ability to give himself super-speed in one of his bios. We don't have an instance of him getting blitzed (afaik). There is no way for you to prove that Superman can blitz him in a forum fight, and there is no way for me to prove that Apocalypse can react to an all-out Superman blitz.


What's a triple standard?



Anyway, back on topic. Apocalypse has all of Mongul's powers and many more. He has shape shifting, immortality, super-human strength, super-human speed, super-human agility/reflexes (like how he dodged that table which was chucked at him by a class 100, real talk), super-human endurance/durability, teleportation, energy absroption, energy projection, technopathy, healing factor, shields, telekenisis, and telepathy. Mongul has what? Super-strength, maaaaaybe super-human reflexes/agility, some energy projection, and super-human durability/stamina.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Everything, as the Mongul-Superman fight happened in a comic, not a forum. And Superman, in comics, on average, doesn't fight to the best of his abilities, regardless of his motive. So it's fair to assume that he didn't go all out when he blitzed Mongul. Get it?


Your whole reasoning falls down right here. It doesn't matter whether or not Clark fights to the best of his abilities on average, it matters that in that particular fight he was fighting at his best.

Why should Clark fight at his best if he only need to be faster than Mongul. There is a lot of faulty reasoning in your posts.



Originally posted by TheTyrant
So you're telling me that Superman, a character who rarely utilizes his super-speed on paper, can blitz an actual speedster who consistently utilizes his super-speed?


Those are the rules in this forum.


Originally posted by TheTyrant
In his Rise of Apocalypse bio, he is credited to having the ability to give himself any physical power.

http://img16.imageshack.us/i/ohotmux05streetsamuraid.jpg/

And super-speed is a physical power, meaning that Apocalypse can give himself super-speed via shape-shifting. Does Mongul have super-speed? I douvt it.


The GL ring is said to be able to do anything, so Hal should be able to wish the JLA away and beat them 10/10. Except we go by showings and not powersets. Bring Apocalypse actually using superspeed to blitz a fast fighter and then we can discuss.

That 'giving himself any physical power' power would have come in handy in pretty much every fight Apoc was in.

Funny how its never happened.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
That 'giving himself any physical power' power would have come in handy in pretty much every fight Apoc was in.

Funny how its never happened. Well, he's made shield arms, jackhammer arms, gun arms, spike arms, opened holes in himself, spike chest, made himself intangible, made himself able to travel through space, grew larger, stretched himself out, etc.

I'd say that's pretty crafty with the "physical power", wouldn't you?

Mongul Jr in both.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Well, he's made shield arms, jackhammer arms, gun arms, spike arms, opened holes in himself, spike chest, made himself intangible, made himself able to travel through space, grew larger, stretched himself out, etc.

I'd say that's pretty crafty with the "physical power", wouldn't you?
But has he ever made himself Batman?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
But has he ever made himself Batman? That's a power only Bruce Wayne has.

Apoc has counter-blitzed Quicksilver for what it's worth.

Originally posted by Bentley
Your whole reasoning falls down right here. It doesn't matter whether or not Clark fights to the best of his abilities on average, it matters that in that particular fight he was fighting at his best.

I'm about 99.99% sure that Superman always holds back while on earth, unless he, or somebody/a group, is about to die in that instant.



The point was that Superman barely had to try in order to defeat Mongul when they fought, simply because of Superman having a major speed advantage over him. What's to stop Apocalypse from teleporting behind him and then punching his head off? I mean he's clearly vulnerable to sudden attacks.





The fight happened in a comic; not in the forum. Plus, rules also say that CIS is ON unless stated otherwise. This fight, as in the fight between Mongul and Apocalypse doesn't have CIS. The fight between Superman and Mongul which happened in a comic, did have CIS enabled.



Apocalypse isn't a speedster and I never argued that he was. He hasn't blitzed anyone on panel as far as I know. Doesn't change the fact that he has decent reflexes and teleportation capabilities.