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1. HTH/Melee fight

2. All powers

Who takes it ?

Thor in both.

Opposite of qaun

Opposite of gceko

Darkseid.
Darkseid stomps.

Are we talking about Darkseid as he should be shown, or DS as he has been shown(IE losing to Superman)?

Originally posted by ares834
Darkseid.
Darkseid stomps.


darkseid gets F###### smoked. he has issues with supes and orion.

Originally posted by zeel
darkseid gets F###### smoked. he has issues with supes and orion. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/RacerX-Firestorm35-p21.jpg

In his original herald form, Orion was nothing to DS.

Orion in his amped SOUL form


http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/DotNG8p24.jpg
They stalemated and Orion killed DS later on still being amped in Countdown AFTER DS still put up a good fight.
Looks to me like DS is far beyond Regular Orion or Superman. Orion=>Superman.

Apokolips Now doesn't agree with you.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Apokolips Now doesn't agree with you.
That is why we go by the current versions.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
In his original herald form, Orion was nothing to DS.

They stalemated and Orion killed DS later on still being amped in Countdown AFTER DS still put up a good fight.
Looks to me like DS is far beyond Regular Orion or Superman. Orion=>Superman.

Wasn't impressed by the first.

IIRC, Darkseid was amped by the soul of the New Gods and Orion was amped by the Source in that battle, which ended in a stalemate. Orion then killed him in the final battle.

Certainly not based on the fights I've seen.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wasn't impressed by the first.

IIRC, Darkseid was amped by the soul of the New Gods and Orion was amped by the Source in that battle, which ended in a stalemate. Orion then killed him in the final battle.

Certainly not based on the fights I've seen. Orion Killed DS after DS amped Himself and still put up a fight against the Source amped Orion. Remember, DS lost his amp in Countdown and had to self amp. That means that he is still far more powerful than Regular Orion or Superman. And he did KO Orion with no effort at all.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
That is why we go by the current versions.

Current version has beaten Superman? cool.

Please post the scans.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wasn't impressed by the first.

IIRC, Darkseid was amped by the soul of the New Gods and Orion was amped by the Source in that battle, which ended in a stalemate. Orion then killed him in the final battle.

Certainly not based on the fights I've seen. Here we see DS self amping and fighting the still amped Orion while He himself has lost the New Gods amp due to the Atom destroying it. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown2p11.jpg

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Orion Killed DS after DS amped Himself and still put up a fight against the Source amped Orion. Remember, DS lost his amp in Countdown and had to self amp. That means that he is still far more powerful than Regular Orion or Superman. And he did KO Orion with no effort at all.

Hold on, so you're saying that Darkseid lost the New God amp, but Orion kept the Source amp? In it's entirety? Can anyone confirm this? I don't remember it. All I remember was the brief struggle, and Orion ripping his heart out.

Darkseid really isn't much more powerful than Orion or Superman. That's silly. IIRC, Darkseid admitted that Superman was his physical match or some such even in the Death of the New Gods mini which is where the scans came from. It was during the Orion/Superman struggle I believe.

Which scene? Orion definitely has some low end feats for a guy of his level though.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hold on, so you're saying that Darkseid lost the New God amp, but Orion kept the Source amp? In it's entirety? Can anyone confirm this? I don't remember it. All I remember was the brief struggle, and Orion ripping his heart out.

Darkseid really isn't much more powerful than Orion or Superman. That's silly. IIRC, Darkseid admitted that Superman was his physical match or some such even in the Death of the New Gods mini which is where the scans came from. It was during the Orion/Superman struggle I believe.

Which scene? Orion definitely has some low end feats for a guy of his level though. Superman being a physical Match does not equal power does it? Thor is stronger than Odin. even Odin has said that. But Odin would ***** Thor in a dual of powers.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Superman being a physical Match does not equal power does it? Thor is stronger than Odin. even Odin has said that. But Odin would ***** Thor in a dual of powers.

Point, there's a distinction between power and physical might, but Superman has faced a Darkseid using his raw power, and has held his own. Superman's tanked his ultimate trump card how many times now, 4?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Current version has beaten Superman? cool.

Please post the scans. This is after Apok now

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p10.jpg

This is also after Apok now. Look at what Superman says.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/DeathOfTheNewGods03_16.jpg

Darkseid could have killed Superman here if he wanted to.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv310-06.jpg

I could post more but it's pretty obvious DS is far superior to Superman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Point, there's a distinction between power and physical might, but Superman has faced a Darkseid using his raw power, and has held his own. Superman's tanked his ultimate trump card how many times now, 4? Superman has never been tossed into time by DS. Or had his power ripped out of him like Firestorm. Superman has never been erased or attempted to be erased by DS. And Superman has never beaten without plot.

I don't understand how those scans prove your point.

In the first scene, Darkseid managed to temporarily down Clark with a direct blast from his Omega power. Do you want me to post the entire fight? Hint: It doesn't prove what you want it to.

I only vaguely recall the second scene but I believe the demons weren't created by Darkseid's own power. So yea.

The third scene was a noticeably weaker Superman who tanked Darkseid's ultimate weapon and IIRC, stood his ground.

Those are all from canon books, huh. I would why I haven't seen these in other Superman vs Darkseid threads?

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Superman has never been tossed into time by DS. Or had his power ripped out of him like Firestorm. Superman has never been erased or attempted to be erased by DS. And Superman has never beaten without plot.

Sure, Darkseid can battle field removal Superman if he wants to, but we're discussing raw power/might are we not? Yea, I don't think Darkseid owning Firestorm is any proof he could do so to Superman. Lol what? If that's what you have to tell yourself, then why not.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't understand how those scans prove your point.

In the first scene, Darkseid managed to temporarily down Clark with a direct blast from his Omega power. Do you want me to post the entire fight? Hint: It doesn't prove what you want it to.

I only vaguely recall the second scene but I believe the demons weren't created by Darkseid's own power. So yea.

The third scene was not only a noticeably weaker Superman tanked Darkseid's ultimate weapon and IIRC, stood his ground.

Ah....so out of context scans..thanks.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Sure, Darkseid can battle field removal Superman if he wants to, but we're discussing raw power/might are we not? Yea, I don't think Darkseid owning Firestorm is any proof he could do so to Superman. Lol what? If that's what you have to tell yourself, then why not. But DS pwning Orion is. Orion is Superman's equal while possessing Superior fire power and more abilities all around. Orion>Superman. DS>>>Orion. Don't forget, Amazo with Firestorm's Powers bitched Superman. So I'd wager Firestorm is also at least as powerful as Superman.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Ah....so out of context scans..thanks.

We need Mungi in here to confirm this. I don't have my DC collection with me to post the issues. But his a Darkseid lover, so we might not be able to trust him. ahuh

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't understand how those scans prove your point.

In the first scene, Darkseid managed to temporarily down Clark with a direct blast from his Omega power. Do you want me to post the entire fight? Hint: It doesn't prove what you want it to.

I only vaguely recall the second scene but I believe the demons weren't created by Darkseid's own power. So yea.

The third scene was a noticeably weaker Superman who tanked Darkseid's ultimate weapon and IIRC, stood his ground. Actrually Superman was Noticeably STRONGER as that is the version of Superman that was able to help Orion push back the Multiversal S'ivaa. Superman got the 4th world amp here. Let's recall all instances please. As for the shadow demons, the point was that superman was able to defeat them easily using heat vision but once DS altered them with his power, they almost killed him. I take it you didn't know these facts so I forgive you.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
But DS pwning Orion is. Orion is Superman's equal while possessing Superior fire power and more abilities all around. Orion>Superman. DS>>>Orion. Don't forget, Amazo with Firestorm's Powers bitched Superman. So I'd wager Firestorm is also at least as powerful as Superman.

Orion's position in comparison to Superman depends solely on the writer. I could easily point to when Doomsday stomped both Martian Manhunter and Orion both in moments in comparison to Superman.

What scene are you referring to? And I highly doubt an Amazo facing Superman, only had Firestorm's powers.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Orion's position in comparison to Superman depends solely on the writer. I could easily point to when Doomsday stomped both Martian Manhunter and Orion both in moments in comparison to Superman.

What scene are you referring to? And I highly doubt an Amazo facing Superman, only had Firestorm's powers. You could point to one instance. I can point to Several where Orion was shown Equal or Superior to Superman. So do you want to try me? Your one instance to my several that show Orion is Superior to Superman. You are trying to use a low showing to make a point. I can also point to when Thor got his shit kicked in by Hulk. But we all know better. Dont' use low showings especially if it's one against dozens of different showings.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
You could point to one instance. I can point to Several where Orion was shown Equal or Superior to Superman. So do you want to try me? Your one instance to my several that show Orion is Superior to Superman. You are trying to use a low showing to make a point. I can also point to when Thor got his shit kicked in by Hulk. But we all know better. Dont' use low showings especially if it's one against dozens of different showings. It makes no difference as it's abc logic and we can already deem Superman matches up far better against Darkseid than Orion does.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Actrually Superman was Noticeably STRONGER as that is the version of Superman that was able to help Orion push back the Multiversal S'ivaa. Superman got the 4th world amp here. Let's recall all instances please. As for the shadow demons, the point was that superman was able to defeat them easily using heat vision but once DS altered them with his power, they almost killed him. I take it you didn't know these facts so I forgive you.

This is from the New Gods run is it not? IIRC, the fought S'ivaa in #9 or around there. When was Superman amped? I better not have to download the comic.

Did we see Darkseid altering them directly?

Please. If I actually put effort into this like I use to, the conversation would have ended a post or two ago.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
You could point to one instance. I can point to Several where Orion was shown Equal or Superior to Superman. So do you want to try me? Your one instance to my several that show Orion is Superior to Superman. You are trying to use a low showing to make a point. I can also point to when Thor got his shit kicked in by Hulk. But we all know better. Dont' use low showings especially if it's one against dozens of different showings.

My point stands. Using Orion as evidence against Superman is silly. He fluctuates, and can't be used as proof against Clark. A, B, C logic and all that. Futhermore, Superman is superior to Orion when the chips are down like he'd be superior to Marvel, Martian Manhunter, Diana or any other super hero. This is not debatable, this is not about power levels, this is simply how DC Comics work.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It makes no difference as it's abc logic and we can already deem Superman matches up far better against Darkseid than Orion does. I supposed Superman can beat Thanos too.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
I supposed Superman can beat Thanos too. Heavens no. Thanos is simply above the guys who beat Ds. Thanos has never lost to any elite top tier in fair combat on panel, once. The same cannot be said about Darkseid.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is from the New Gods run is it not? IIRC, the fought S'ivaa in #9 or around there. When was Superman amped? I better not have to download the comic.

Did we see Darkseid altering them directly?

Please. If I actually put effort into this like I use to, the conversation would have ended a post or two ago. Ended what? Do you read new gods? Anyone who enters the 4th world gets a proportainal (Spelling) Boost from the 3rd dimension. Or do you think herald level Orion and Superman actually stood a chance against S'ivaa whose finger nail ripped time space and torched millions of worlds? Come on now. Do we need to see DS alter the shadow demons? Superman says on Panel it's DS power. It's not a stretch. Stayne would kick Superman's Ass and she was altered on panel by DS.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Heavens no. Thanos is simply above the guys who beat Ds. Thanos has never lost to any elite top tier in fair combat on panel, once. The same cannot be said about Darkseid. Has anyone ever turned Thano's own powers against him and then fought him?

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Has anyone ever turned Thano's own powers against him and then fought him? That's called a mistake and it's happened to Darkseid more than once. DD also didn't turn his powers against him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is from the New Gods run is it not? IIRC, the fought S'ivaa in #9 or around there. When was Superman amped? I better not have to download the comic.

Did we see Darkseid altering them directly?

Please. If I actually put effort into this like I use to, the conversation would have ended a post or two ago.



My point stands. Using Orion as evidence against Superman is silly. He fluctuates, and can't be used as proof against Clark. A, B, C logic and all that. Superman is superior to Orion when the chips are down like he'd be superior to Marvel, Martian Manhunter, Diana or any other super hero. This is not debatable, this is not about power levels, this is simply how DC Comics work. Except when the chips where down, Superman was not Superior to Orion when Darkseid needed to be taken out in DOTNG or in Countdown. The Chips where down when the star conquerer came and Superman could do nothing and it was Orion who injured the cosmic being. It was also Orion when the chips where down who stopped sun amped Superman's assault. Orion is Equal to Superman in Physical Ability and Superior to Superman in energy manipulation. And he got one shotted by DS with no effort. You used one instance to say Superman was Superior to Orion but I see no OTHER EVIDENCE. While I site instance after instance where Orion is equal to or better than Superman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Orion's position in comparison to Superman depends solely on the writer. I could easily point to when Doomsday stomped both Martian Manhunter and Orion both in moments in comparison to Superman.

What scene are you referring to? And I highly doubt an Amazo facing Superman, only had Firestorm's powers.

The amp that Comics Queen, who may or may not be someone who used to be on this board, is derived from the macro-scaling provided by the boom tube.

Regarding the shadow demons, their last appearence was in COIE. Superman was bitchslapping them then. His referencing them and saying that under Darkseid's touch they have become darker, is proof enough of enhancement.

I commend Mungi's Darkseid thread to your attention, as I think you may be ignorant on many things related to DS.

Firestorm is slept on a great deal, he's very powerful. And Amazo has demonstrated not the ability to stack powers, but to use them better than their original owners on several occasions.

Orion is Superman's equal. Granted, Superman can beat him in a fistfight, but the Astro Force pierces Superman's bio aura. Oh, and Supes has been teleported by the OE, which is equivalent to being erased. Since in order to transport you, it would have to affect you in the first place.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's called a mistake and it's happened to Darkseid more than once. DD also didn't turn his powers against him. DD is superior to any herald.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Except when the chips where down, Superman was not Superior to Orion when Darkseid needed to be taken out in DOTNG or in Countdown. The Chips where down when the star conquerer came and Superman could do nothing and it was Orion who injured the cosmic being. It was also Orion when the chips where down who stopped sun amped Superman's assault. Orion is Equal to Superman in Physical Ability and Superior to Superman in energy manipulation. And he got one shotted by DS with no effort. You used one instance to say Superman was Superior to Orion but I see no OTHER EVIDENCE. While I site instance after instance where Orion is equal to or better than Superman. You can also do the same for Superman. he stalemated Orion in dotng and looked far better in the dominus story when he took on all the heroes including Orion. Supes is his physical superior slightly whereas Orion has him in rage. Energy projection is pretty close.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Ended what? Do you read new gods? Anyone who enters the 4th world gets a proportainal (Spelling) Boost from the 3rd dimension. Or do you think herald level Orion and Superman actually stood a chance against S'ivaa whose finger nail ripped time space and torched millions of worlds? Come on now. Do we need to see DS alter the shadow demons? Superman says on Panel it's DS power. It's not a stretch. Stayne would kick Superman's Ass and she was altered on panel by DS.

The debate. Do I read New Gods? I use to, and I would if they had any comics coming out. Unfortunately they don't.

I figured as much. You're assuming that Superman was amped by just being in the fourth world? Has that ever been mentioned? I assumed it was just an adjustment in physical size and perception unless more has been revealed. And how does Darkseid fit into all of this? Would his power not be greater on the Fourth World then in the rest of time/space? If so, it's meaningless then, because either they fight in the Fourth World or in normal space/time.

And he could easily be referring to his resources. I doubt Superman saw Darkseid alter them either.

Takion's counterpart? Unfortunately, it's been a while since I read the Takion series, but if she has access to the Source or at least uses it more effective than Takion, she'd win.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
DD is superior to any herald. I disagree.

Actually, there is an amp that happens in the 4th world.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv310-11.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv310-12.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv310-13.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv310-14.jpg

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can also do the same for Superman. he stalemated Orion in dotng and looked far better in the dominus story when he took on all the heroes including Orion. Supes is his physical superior slightly whereas Orion has him in rage. Energy projection is pretty close. What?!!!! Orion's energy projection close to Superman's? hell no. No further discussion is needed.

Superman's energy projection is very different from Orion's. Superman has better feats, but the Astro Force has deflected the OE.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
What?!!!! Orion's energy projection close to Superman's? hell no. No further discussion is needed. Why not ? If it's such a stupid thing to say I guess you should have no reason to not pwn me right now....here's your chance.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Actually, there is an amp that happens in the 4th world.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv310-11.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv310-12.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv310-13.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv310-14.jpg

Like I said, size and perception adjustment. I was basing that assessment on this scene actually. That in itself is an amp, but not in the same vain as new powers etc.

But like I said, it doesn't matter. All relative.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Superman's energy projection is very different from Orion's. Superman has better feats, but the Astro Force has deflected the OE.

So has heat vision.

Gonna have to finish this later.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why not ? If it's such a stupid thing to say I guess you should have no reason to not pwn me right now....here's your chance. It's not up for discussion. Orion's energy abilities quelled a quantum bomb, injured the star conquerer, helped push back the ALE being who was as powerful as the Source, Helped collapse an entire universe, and One Shotted Superman. Superman's heat vision could not one shot himself. He couldn't even One Shot Wonder Woman or Supergirl with his heat Vision. Superman's energy could not help push back the ALE.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So has heat vision.

Gonna have to finish this later. That feat is bullshit and you know it. :/

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
That feat is bullshit and you know it. :/ Did Superman have a Fourthworld amp when he did this?

Show me the scans. If it's Apokolips now, it's just BS.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
It's not up for discussion. Orion's energy abilities quelled a quantum bomb, injured the star conquerer, helped push back the ALE being who was as powerful as the Source, Helped collapse an entire universe, and One Shotted Superman. Superman's heat vision could not one shot himself. He couldn't even One Shot Wonder Woman or Supergirl with his heat Vision. Superman's energy could not help push back the ALE. Most of these are examples of impressive feats which I am sure Superman has more to make claim with of heat vision.

Helped means not on his own so it's really not a good indicator. He oneshotted an older less powerful superman not the current more powerful one. Superman not oneshotting WW is the same as Orion not oneshotting Kalibak with his astroforce and selectively comparing the two.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
That feat is bullshit and you know it. :/

If you say so.

Here's the scene:
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/blasts/adventuresof595a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/blasts/adventuresof595b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/blasts/adventuresof595c.jpg

Here's another one:
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Energy/hv/ApokolipsNowa.jpg

The first one is out of context, 2nd, those are the Omega Beams, not the OE.

First one is after DS used his power to help Superman pierce Imperiex Prime's armor. He was very drained.

2nd one is Apokolips now. Which is BS, and those are the finder beams, NOT THE OE.

odin force thor got depowered greatly and falling in the ground after he revived the asgardians globally. that's his greatest feat. not fighting bor, someone with no feats who got turned into snow by loki.
darkseid takes this

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The first one is out of context, 2nd, those are the Omega Beams, not the OE.

Based on?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
First one is after DS used his power to help Superman pierce Imperiex Prime's armor. He was very drained.

Are you sure? I really don't want to go check. The issue is Adventure of Superman #595 IIRC if anyone is willing to do it.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
2nd one is Apokolips now. Which is BS, and those are the finder beams, NOT THE OE.

Oh please, not this again.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Based on?



Are you sure? I really don't want to go check. The issue is Adventure of Superman #595 IIRC if anyone is willing to do it.



Oh please, not this again. It's no different than if Thor uses a blast from his hammer and it fails to kill Silver Surfer. I'm not going to think it was the God blasts when I know it could have been an anti matter blasts or a lightning bolt. The Omega powers do different things. Not every blast is the trump effect. Just like not every Thor attack is the God blast.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Based on?



Are you sure? I really don't want to go check. The issue is Adventure of Superman #595 IIRC if anyone is willing to do it.



Oh please, not this again.

Based on actually reading Darkseid's comics and knowing how his powers work.

And yes, that is during Our Worlds at War. Mungi has the scans with citations in the DS respect thread.

Are you saying not this again in response to Apokolips now, or the finder beams? Because if you're disputing the finders, you're wrong. That's how the damn attack works.

Darkseid rarely uses the Omega Effect ("the end of the end", "the total wipe out" and has never used them on Supes. OE>>>>disintegration/energy beams.

Originally posted by Allankles
Darkseid rarely uses the Omega Effect ("the end of the end", "the total wipe out" and has never used them on Supes. OE>>>>disintegration/energy beams. If he wiped out Superman, then he wouldn't get to humble him and make him server him. People are forgetting DS true motives. He's not a killer. he wants to break wills.

Yes, that's part of his CIS, he wants total victory, psychological victory first.

Legends was one of the clearest examples of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_(comics)

I'd say that might be Darkseid's biggest personality flaw: the desire to break his foes, to humble them. To make them, quote, "DIE FOR DARKSEID!" unquote.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
If he wiped out Superman, then he wouldn't get to humble him and make him server him. People are forgetting DS true motives. He's not a killer. he wants to break wills. Just because Darkseid wants to break someone's will in one story that doesn't mean he wants to in every story. there are plenty of examples of Ds wanting to beat Superman in combat.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just because Darkseid wants to break someone's will in one story that doesn't mean he wants to in every story. there are plenty of examples of Ds wanting to beat Superman in combat. Which is why he never uses energy powers on Superman of any exotic type. He and Superman have always been even keel when it came to speed, and physicality.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Which is why he never uses energy powers on Superman of any exotic type. He and Superman have always been even keel when it came to speed, and physicality. He's tried to hit him with his omega powers multiple times. You can't ignore how these characters fight in comics just because you don't like the end result. It's not like they fought once too they have fought many times.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He's tried to hit him with his omega powers multiple times. You can't ignore how these characters fight in comics just because you don't like the end result. It's not like they fought once too they have fought many times. I cannot recall DS ever Matter manipulating Superman, throwing him into the omega sanction, devolving him, erasing him, or any of that. He's only used his heat vision again Superman. That is why I said Exotic energy powers.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
I cannot recall DS ever Matter manipulating Superman, throwing him into the omega sanction, devolving him, erasing him, or any of that. He's only used his heat vision again Superman. That is why I said Exotic energy powers. He's tried to erase him and he's hit him before with his beams though via cheapshot and in combat. Darkseid until he proves can't devolve Superman on sight.

This isn't cbr.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He's tried to erase him and he's hit him before with his beams though via cheapshot and in combat. Darkseid until he proves can't devolve Superman on sight.

This isn't cbr. I'm sorry. That means that until Thanos mind rapes Thor, he can't. You see the ridiculousness of your argument. DS has never hit Superman with the Omega Wipe out. He's never dumped Superman in the Omega Sanction. He's never matter manipulated him. Why? Because he doesn't want to kill him. We saw how easily DS turned Jimmy Olsen into Krytonite. If DS wanted to Kill Superman, he could turn Superman's clothes into Kryptonite. But something tells me you don't care and conjecture would say that you would say that until he tries it on Superman he can't. Which is the point of the forum. We are talking about matches as they would happen given someone abilities and appearances.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
I'm sorry. That means that until Thanos mind rapes Thor, he can't. You see the ridiculousness of your argument. DS has never hit Superman with the Omega Wipe out. He's never dumped Superman in the Omega Sanction. He's never matter manipulated him. Why? Because he doesn't want to kill him. We saw how easily DS turned Jimmy Olsen into Krytonite. If DS wanted to Kill Superman, he could turn Superman's clothes into Kryptonite. But something tells me you don't care and conjecture would say that you would say that until he tries it on Superman he can't. Which is the point of the forum. We are talking about matches as they would happen given someone abilities and appearances. I don't see Thanos doing so to Thor either. I see him acting in character when he fights I don't just disregard their fights and try to ignore how Darkseid battles Superman. Darkseid tried to kill him with the k-nite in countdown. LOL. Darkseid wanted to kill him in superman/batman when WW blocked his beams, Darkseid wanted to defeat him in apokolips now, Darkseid tried killing him with his shadow demons in death of ya know.

I am giving examples of Ds actively trying to kill him on panel.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't see Thanos doing so to Thor either. I see him acting in character when he fights I don't just disregard their fights and try to ignore how Darkseid battles Superman. Darkseid tried to kill him with the k-nite in countdown. LOL. Darkseid wanted to kill him in superman/batman when WW blocked his beams, Darkseid wanted to defeat him in apokolips now, Darkseid tried killing him with his shadow demons in death of ya know.

I am giving examples of Ds actively trying to kill him on panel. Pardon me but DS was going to Kill Superman until WW blocked his beams.( Superman did get his ass kicked and get knocked down on the ground defenseless. Superman was also being killed by the Shadow demons. Had not been for intervention, he would have died. DS did not try to kill Superman in Apok Now. He wanted to defeat him. And he would have if he hadn't pwned himself. DS punched himself in the face lol. DS got really hurt after he HURT HIMSELF. In countdown, DS wanted the 5th world to appear, there was no need to humble Superman at that point because his motives had changed. The point being, you can't say DS can't do these things to Superman just because he hasn't. That is like Saying Thanos can't mind rape Thor just because he hasn't. Of course he can. Also, DS motives do change from Story to Story. There are times when he's trying to humble, and times when he's trying to remove an annoyance.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
I cannot recall DS ever Matter manipulating Superman, throwing him into the omega sanction, devolving him, erasing him, or any of that. He's only used his heat vision again Superman. That is why I said Exotic energy powers.
lol, he didn't use "heat vision" it was the Omega Effect.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Pardon me but DS was going to Kill Superman until WW blocked his beams.( Superman did get his ass kicked and get knocked down on the ground defenseless. Superman was also being killed by the Shadow demons. Had not been for intervention, he would have died. DS did not try to kill Superman in Apok Now. He wanted to defeat him. And he would have if he hadn't pwned himself. DS punched himself in the face lol. DS got really hurt after he HURT HIMSELF. In countdown, DS wanted the 5th world to appear, there was no need to humble Superman at that point because his motives had changed. The point being, you can't say DS can't do these things to Superman just because he hasn't. That is like Saying Thanos can't mind rape Thor just because he hasn't. Of course he can. Also, DS motives do change from Story to Story. There are times when he's trying to humble, and times when he's trying to remove an annoyance. So you admit he's tried killing him in combat though for whatever reason Superman keeps on fighting or winning. I agree he would have died against the shadow demons but you just stated he doesn't want to kill him which is blatantly untrue as you now freely admit.

Ds didn't pwn himself Superman's actions caused it to happen he didn't just miss he evaded and made it happen. LOL.


Ds did try to kill Superman so again you confirm my truthful words.
I don't say he can't do these things I simply need proof and it's out of character for him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you admit he's tried killing him in combat though for whatever reason Superman keeps on fighting or winning. I agree he would have died against the shadow demons but you just stated he doesn't want to kill him which is blatantly untrue as you now freely admit.

Ds didn't pwn himself Superman's actions caused it to happen he didn't just miss he evaded and made it happen. LOL.


Ds did try to kill Superman so again you confirm my truthful words.
I don't say he can't do these things I simply need proof and it's out of character for him. DS tried to kill Superman ONLY when the story called for it. If Superman got in his way of another objective, etc. You missed that point. If the main objective is to bend wills, DS is not trying to Kill Superman. And you skipped over my point. DS has never used any exotic powers on Superman and had them fail.

Originally posted by King Kandy
lol, he didn't use "heat vision" it was the Omega Effect. The Omega Effect does stuff. Like evolution, matter manip, etc. He used His version of heat vision which is just energy or concussive beams.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
DS tried to kill Superman ONLY when the story called for it. If Superman got in his way of another objective, etc. You missed that point. If the main objective is to bend wills, DS is not trying to Kill Superman. And you skipped over my point. DS has never used any exotic powers on Superman and had them fail. So you admit it's not in his character to do so. you originally stated he doesn't try to kill Supes to which you just not backpedaled because I gave you multiple examples. The writer can do whatever he wants that still doesn't change the fact he's tried to kill Superman before which you stated he hasn't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you admit it's not in his character to do so. you originally stated he doesn't try to kill Supes to which you just not backpedaled because I gave you multiple examples. The writer can do whatever he wants that still doesn't change the fact he's tried to kill Superman before which you stated he hasn't. Not unless Superman was in the way of another objective. DS does not want to kill Superman for the sake of killing him.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
The Omega Effect does stuff. Like evolution, matter manip, etc. He used His version of heat vision which is just energy or concussive beams.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/omegaeffect.jpg

Heat vision is "termination itself"?

Originally posted by King Kandy
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/omegaeffect.jpg

Heat vision is "termination itself"? The effect has to hit. Those are just his heat vision finder beams.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
The effect has to hit. Those are just his heat vision finder beams.
So? It can be blocked obviously so its not like it will hit anyway...

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Not unless Superman was in the way of another objective. DS does not want to kill Superman for the sake of killing him. It's irrelevant because as you agree he's tried to kill him . Charlie sheen and I have something in common; winning.

Originally posted by King Kandy
So? It can be blocked obviously so its not like it will hit anyway... Those beams can. Obviously DS forgot to make them phase shift first.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Those beams can. Obviously DS forgot to make them phase shift first. It's been blocked multiple times this isn't the only instance.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Those beams can. Obviously DS forgot to make them phase shift first.
So DS is both weak and stupid?

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's been blocked multiple times this isn't the only instance.

Didn't Starfire block it with her beams and cause him extreme pain in the X-men/Teen Titans crossover? LOL that's just sad. Unless that's not canon, then I retract my statement.

Originally posted by zopzop
Didn't Starfire block it with her beams and cause him extreme pain in the X-men/Teen Titans crossover? LOL that's just sad. Unless that's not canon, then I retract my statement. I don't ever take any crossovers seriously outside the avengers/jla one so I wouldn't hold this against Darkseid.

Originally posted by King Kandy
So DS is both weak and stupid? Depends on your opinion and of course who's writing. Any Superman writer makes all of his enemies stupid.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Depends on your opinion and of course who's writing. Any Superman writer makes all of his enemies stupid. You can use this logic whenever a showing occurs you despise.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can use this logic whenever a showing occurs you despise. It's not a showing I despise. It's simple logic. DS can make his beams pass thru time, energy barriers, matter, but he forgot to make them pass thru superman's heat vision? He can grow Giant Size and amp his power levels but he doesn't do this? He can Change Jimmy into Kryptonite but doesn't turn the entire battle field to krytonite or Superman's clothes? That is why this forum exist. To talk about how a fight would happen if a character fought to the best of their abilities. No different than when Thor fights Hulk and Forgets he can control weather, teleport beings, etc.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
It's not a showing I despise. It's simple logic. DS can make his beams pass thru time, energy barriers, matter, but he forgot to make them pass thru superman's heat vision? He can grow Giant Size and amp his power levels but he doesn't do this? He can Change Jimmy into Kryptonite but doesn't turn the entire battle field to krytonite or Superman's clothes? That is why this forum exist. To talk about how a fight would happen if a character fought to the best of their abilities. No different than when Thor fights Hulk and Forgets he can control weather, teleport beings, etc. He changed him into k-nite because he still had the battery inside of him. Seid retained control until Atom severed it then they fought. You can't ignore the times the beams get blocked or deflected and make up whatever you want you aren't the writer.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He changed him into k-nite because he still had the battery inside of him. Seid retained control until Atom severed it then they fought. You can't ignore the times the beams get blocked or deflected and make up whatever you want you aren't the writer. I can say that the beams have never been blocked or deflected while phased. I can then say, DS never phased his beams in any instance you mentioned.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
I can say that the beams have never been blocked or deflected while phased. I can then say, DS never phased his beams in any instance you mentioned. So then it isn't in character for him to always phase the beams.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So then it isn't in character for him to always phase the beams. It is in character for him to phase the beams when he's trying to kill someone. It's not in character for Surfer to always use matter manip. It's not in character for Thanos to always use Tp. It's not in character for flash to imp. BUT they can. And in a fight at the best of their abilities, which the rules do say, DS would never, in a forum fight, allow his beams to be deflected. He would phase them. As per forum rules. Thus under forum rules, Superman would never win.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
It is in character for him to phase the beams when he's trying to kill someone. It's not in character for Surfer to always use matter manip. It's not in character for Thanos to always use Tp. It's not in character for flash to imp. BUT they can. And in a fight at the best of their abilities, which the rules do say, DS would never, in a forum fight, allow his beams to be deflected. He would phase them. As per forum rules. Thus under forum rules, Superman would never win. That's why I don't always argue these tactics. The writer clrearly defined Darkseid as trying to kill these foes yet his beams were blocked so your point doesn't stand.

Under forum rules we use comic showings as evidence not what we think should happen.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's why I don't always argue these tactics. The writer clrearly defined Darkseid as trying to kill these foes yet his beams were blocked so your point doesn't stand.

Under forum rules we use comic showings as evidence not what we think should happen. I'm sorry, I"m using the same comics that show DS can phase his beams. You are discounting those facts because you do not like them. He can phase his beams. He never lost that ability. That is why there is the clause CIS or PIS. All you have to do is show one instance where the phased beams where blocked.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
I'm sorry, I"m using the same comics that show DS can phase his beams. You are discounting those facts because you do not like them. He can phase his beams. He never lost that ability. That is why there is the clause CIS or PIS. All you have to do is show one instance where the phased beams where blocked. Except for the times he has been shown unable to do so with the proper timing.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Except for the times he has been shown unable to do so with the proper timing. Name them.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Name them. I already have. We have just been talking about the times I am not going to restate myself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I already have. We have just been talking about the times I am not going to restate myself. You have named no time when DS phased finder beams where blocked or deflected. Not one.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
You have named no time when DS phased finder beams where blocked or deflected. Not one. I said when he wants his opposition defeated he uses his beams so with the proper timing it gets blocked which has happened.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I said when he wants his opposition defeated he uses his beams so with the proper timing it gets blocked which has happened. No. Name a time when the phased finder beams get blocked. Let me help you out. they don't.
These beams go thru all kinds of barriers to capture and hold IM and Supers. They had plenty of time to block them. Especially the uber powerful IM. They could not. The Finders cannot be blocked.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/AdventuresOfSuperman495p16.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/AdventuresOfSuperman495p17.jpg
here it is very evident that DS's beams when in effect mode can do what ever they want to superman. He did not kill Superman because he felt indebted to him. Instead of wiping him out he simply teleported him.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/AdventuresOfSuperman518p20.jpg

MM can phase and not even he could avoid the finders target.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/martianmanhunter34kebbin22.jpg

Finder beams go thru barriers and capture superman. once again the finders are NOT deflected or redirected.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Supermanv2104-17.jpg

Originally posted by Comics Queen
MM can phase and not even he could avoid the finders target.
Um... he didn't phase in that scan... so that's kind of like me saying "the finder beams can phase, and not even they could avoid Supes heat vision". Clearly you must think that's flawed logic since that's what you were just arguing against.

You can't phase away from the beams, they cross time, space, dimensions, even passing through objects to hit their target.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Um... he didn't phase in that scan... so that's kind of like me saying "the finder beams can phase, and not even they could avoid Supes heat vision". Clearly you must think that's flawed logic since that's what you were just arguing against. There was a very important part that I wanted to illustrate, that not even someone who can phase can escape the finders. Also note that Light Ray says your beams can teleport as well as obliterate. The effects do not require different levels of power from DS. DS has teleported Superman many times. If he wanted to, all he has to do is change the affect from teleport to obliterate.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
The effects do not require different levels of power from DS.


I want proof about that if you have it.

Originally posted by Bentley
I want proof about that if you have it. The proof is in Lightray's statement.

@Comics queen


I see your examples and I have already seen Superman outrun them and cleverly maneuver around them to hit Darkseid with them. In the first scan these guys aren't even fighting Seid so of course they are harder to avoid as they just showed up while they were fighting elsewhere.

I never said they couldn't hit targets but MM isn't as quick or didn't use his quick thinking due to his lack of experience with Seid as Superman has. The last is Desaad. Nothing more needs to be said of them working against him.

Originally posted by King Kandy
So? It can be blocked obviously so its not like it will hit anyway...

NO matter how you look at it.. it can, and has been blocked. What's worse they HAVE ZERO PROOF that was heat vision finder beams.. DS says clearly... THE OMEGA EFFECT. You have to prove it was heat vision not the other way around. Until then, that was the real Omega effect which was effortless blocked by heat vision.

Is this JMS Odinforce Thor?

frankly, OF Thor wasn't all that impressive. rulk handled him like a beanbag.

Originally posted by Starscream M
frankly, OF Thor wasn't all that impressive. rulk handled him like a beanbag.

OF Thor was significantly more durable at least than regular Thor. The Destroyer and Bor fights show that much. Rulk didn't come close to killng Thor, yet admitted that Thor could have killed him in a few strikes.

Most impressive Thor ever? Hardly. But still impressive as all things go.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
OF Thor was significantly more durable at least than regular Thor. The Destroyer and Bor fights show that much. Rulk didn't come close to killng Thor, yet admitted that Thor could have killed him in a few strikes.

Most impressive Thor ever? Hardly. But still impressive as all things go. rulk didn't kill thor cuz he got bored and left...you do remember that right? rulk could've killed thor, he chose not to

bor was a bag of hyperbole...if you examine their fight, they didn't even destroy a city block.

Originally posted by Starscream M
rulk didn't kill thor cuz he got bored and left...you do remember that right? rulk could've killed thor, he chose not to

bor was a bag of hyperbole...if you examine their fight, they didn't even destroy a city block.

Thor was beat up, but wasn't in danger of dying. Rulk explicitly said Thor could have killed him. Underestimating Rulk and getting smacked down isn't a low feat. Especially considering how Thor had fared since against Rulk.

What was hyperbolic about it? Bor was a king of Asgard and was durable/powerful enough to break Mjolnir. Thor explicitly said without the Odinforce, he would have been killed. That is enough to tell me that while Bor wasn't busting galaxies as Odin has, he was still exceedingly powerful in his own right. Not every High Herald/Trans/Skyfather/etc fight has to have massive collateral damage in order to prove they are powerful.

Originally posted by quanchi112
@Comics queen


I see your examples and I have already seen Superman outrun them and cleverly maneuver around them to hit Darkseid with them. In the first scan these guys aren't even fighting Seid so of course they are harder to avoid as they just showed up while they were fighting elsewhere.

I never said they couldn't hit targets but MM isn't as quick or didn't use his quick thinking due to his lack of experience with Seid as Superman has. The last is Desaad. Nothing more needs to be said of them working against him. That wasn't desaad. That was Superman. The Finder Beams cannot be outran or blocked. the Omegas can.

Originally posted by Bentley
I want proof about that if you have it.

I'm pretty sure Mungi has scans to that affect.

@comics: got that backwards. The Omega beams have been blocked, as have the finders at times. But not the OE itself. Or the OS.

Regarding Desaad, he has impersonated DS at times, but......any abilities he uses as Darkseid are things Darkseid himself can do, and do better.

Witness his transport of Kanto via OE. Kanto got zapped, and sent backwards. No one knew, Kanto was presumed dead until Kanto's predecessor looked into the past and found him. Only DS himself knows what function his OE is serving at any given time. Like with Henshaw when he 'killed' him, when he really just stuffed him into an orb.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm pretty sure Mungi has scans to that affect.

@comics: got that backwards. The Omega beams have been blocked, as have the finders at times. But not the OE itself. Or the OS.

Regarding Desaad, he has impersonated DS at times, but......any abilities he uses as Darkseid are things Darkseid himself can do, and do better.

Witness his transport of Kanto via OE. Kanto got zapped, and sent backwards. No one knew, Kanto was presumed dead until Kanto's predecessor looked into the past and found him. Only DS himself knows what function his OE is serving at any given time. Like with Henshaw when he 'killed' him, when he really just stuffed him into an orb. I said the phased Finder beams have never been blocked. PHASED.

DS in the scan you posted JUST SAID he was firing his OE and it was blocked with ease

Originally posted by Comics Queen
That wasn't desaad. That was Superman. The Finder Beams cannot be outran or blocked. the Omegas can. The beams can be blocked. You can continually act like Ds doesn't try to put superman down wit his omega beams but I have multiple instances of him doing just that.

Apokolips Now.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Apokolips Now is a mess, and at the very least is PIS. At most, it's just plain bad writing and should be discarded, imo.

I think this constitutes a mod ruling. Or at least the opinion of one of the people I would consider a Superman expert on here.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
DS in the scan you posted JUST SAID he was firing his OE and it was blocked with ease I posted no such scan.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Apokolips Now.



I think this constitutes a mod ruling. Or at least the opinion of one of the people I would consider a Superman expert on here. pretty sure you don't want to start disregarding arcs due to "i didn't like it; it didn't happen".

If you're trick and it relates to a low showing for the New Gods you do.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Apokolips Now.



I think this constitutes a mod ruling. Or at least the opinion of one of the people I would consider a Superman expert on here.
Oh please. He even said it was only his opinion. If its an official ruling than its an official ruling; its not a crime to disagree with a mod's opinion. I think Pr even stated something to that effect.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
pretty sure you don't want to start disregarding arcs due to "i didn't like it; it didn't happen".

Have you read Apokolips Now?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Have you read Apokolips Now? trust me, i'd like to forget a lot of arcs but we just can't go around omitting canon material, especially when without some sort of mutual understanding involving a good number of board members

a similar thing like that was floating around for awhile was omitting oldchool marvel character feats cause portrayals are different. the counter argument/logic was that marvel suffered no reboot/three-boot (lol) and the feats and histories are still intact (minus spider-man), moslty revisited via memories, or simply the feat being replicated in modern times therefore kicking the motion in the ball sack.

Alright, that is a fair point. But it is still PIS given that it completely contradicts every showing of Apokolips and Darkseid.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Alright, that is a fair point. But it is still PIS given that it completely contradicts every showing of Apokolips and Darkseid.
except for superman/batman and all the other comics you don't like...

You know what? S/B helps my case on DS's true from. His deal with Superman from the alternate timeline.

I challenge you to a battlezone. You have to prove Rock of Ages isn't canon, along with what it infers about their true nature. Prove it's a what-if on your side, I'll prove it isn't.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I challenge you to a battlezone. You have to prove Rock of Ages isn't canon, along with what it infers about their true nature. Prove it's a what-if on your side, I'll prove it isn't. Rock of Ages was nothing more than another version of Final Crisis and Seven Soldiers. When Metron Infers that things happen simultaneously across time lines and realities, Grant proves it. Darkseid Kills Batman in ROA and he does the same in Final Crisis. The 3 three stories are connected in many many ways. All Canon to not only the New Gods as there is only one set of them in myriad Dimensions, but the JLA also have the ROA in their Database as a mission.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Alright, that is a fair point. But it is still PIS given that it completely contradicts every showing of Apokolips and Darkseid. There are other showings too where they go toe to toe I mean a bunch of them so you really don't have a point.

Originally posted by quanchi112
There are other showings too where they go toe to toe I mean a bunch of them so you really don't have a point. I don't recall them. Please post them so I can reference them.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
I don't recall them. Please post them so I can reference them. They fought at the end of imperiex where they stalemated.

They fought in superman/batman twice in which Superman held his own. Superman bfr'd him, a slew of parademons and henchmen easily in his own comic, he held his own in countdown until seid used olsen's power battery to turn himself into k-nite.

That's just off the top of my head.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They fought at the end of imperiex where they stalemated.

They fought in superman/batman twice in which Superman held his own. Superman bfr'd him, a slew of parademons and henchmen easily in his own comic, he held his own in countdown until seid used olsen's power battery to turn himself into k-nite.

That's just off the top of my head.


I remember in Superman Batman when Superman was getting his ass kicked and was about to die when Wonder Woman had to intervene and save his ass. That isn't a stalemate. Superman had help.

After Imperiex? You mean after DS had used up most of his power helping to destroy the Universe destroying abstract being? And DS still was beating Superman's ass, weakened and all.

In Countdown, DS was fighting the uber amped Jimmy Olsen. Thus amping himself to keep up with the powers of Thousands of Gods. Then fighting Superman.


I need something more concrete. Something were Superman has no outside help, DS hasn't shot himself in the face, and he hasn't used up his energies fighting abstract level beings.

Ready, Get Set, Go......

Originally posted by Comics Queen
I remember in Superman Batman when Superman was getting his ass kicked and was about to die when Wonder Woman had to intervene and save his ass. That isn't a stalemate. Superman had help.

After Imperiex? You mean after DS had used up most of his power helping to destroy the Universe destroying abstract being? And DS still was beating Superman's ass, weakened and all.

In Countdown, DS was fighting the uber amped Jimmy Olsen. Thus amping himself to keep up with the powers of Thousands of Gods. Then fighting Superman.


I need something more concrete. Something were Superman has no outside help, DS hasn't shot himself in the face, and he hasn't used up his energies fighting abstract level beings.

Ready, Get Set, Go...... There was a plan in place and Darkseid has used parademons/shadow ones as well to aid him so I think turn about is fair play.

Superman had used a lot of energy in that arc as well but I guess it only matters for Ds and when was it ever mentioned either character was weakened at the time of this brawl.

Ds fought Superman before Olsen. LOL.

I corrected your context and gave more than these examples which you completely hyped in favor of Darkseid. Shocker. Some things don't change.