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Who wins?

Alex releases an omnidirectional blast.

i was gonna say Alex if he just omni blast from his body at the get go.

if he tries small direct blast from his fist he gets killed.

alex ftw..

whoever strikes first wins. and i think only one thinks, moves and reacts faster than speed of thought. i i'd say mr 'before your brain can send an impulse to twitch your little finger i can put you down' seems pretty fast on the drawto me. this fight is essentially a quick draw contest and DS is one of the fastest draws in comics. ds puts a hole in his head before havok can even think to omniblast.

evil fight aching bump

Originally posted by long pig
whoever strikes first wins. and i think only one thinks, moves and reacts faster than speed of thought. i i'd say mr 'before your brain can send an impulse to twitch your little finger i can put you down' seems pretty fast on the drawto me. this fight is essentially a quick draw contest and DS is one of the fastest draws in comics. ds puts a hole in his head before havok can even think to omniblast.

Doesn't matter how fast he thinks, he still has to cross the distance before he can attack and there is no way he can do that before Alex thinks "blast".

This is Alex's fight to lose.

why does he need to close distance. he carries a friggin cannon with him. plus after studying havoc a bit and it seems he has to build up before a blast like that. even if it's only a second or two it may as well be hours. Remember what was his ex wife said in #0, and i quote, 'He says he sees things slower than us normal people. Every minute is like an hour to him ' Do i believe that's litteral? no. but it gets the point across.

Where does it say that Havok has to "build up" before he can blast?

And even if it's true, DS would still have to think, aim, fire and the blast would have to reach Alex...that is going to take more than a second or two.

Alex

quickdraw as the piggy said. if it comes down to that, ds does indeed put a bullet in alex's brain. if ds can't use his range weapon, alex wins 10/10

Quick draw favors the guy that can fire an omnidirectional energy blast with a thought.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Quick draw favors the guy that can fire an omnidirectional energy blast with a thought. Not if he's drawing on a guy who can blast him before that thought can register.

Originally posted by long pig
Not if he's drawing on a guy who can blast him before that thought can register.

Prove that DS can think, draw, aim, fire and have the projectile hit Alex before Alex can think "blast".

Prove Alex has superspeed period. We know Deathstroke does.

someone covered in plasma doesn't really need superspeed

Not sure how Slade will hit him with no eyes.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Prove Alex has superspeed period. We know Deathstroke does.

Since when does it take superspeed to think "blast"?

When the other guy dodges bullets and has wins against the Flash.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
When the other guy dodges bullets and has wins against the Flash.

Havok isn't firing bullets, he's firing an omnidirectional blast.

Havok wins.

I'm going to use the new way of debating here and point out that there's nothing that says the match doesn't start with Slade looking at Havok's head through a sniper scope with his finger on the trigger. dur

slade's got superspeed. these quickdraws suck. could alex get a blast off before ds kills him? maybe. ds's reflex speed is PROVEN though so i'd certainly favor the guy with the proof. best case for alex is they both die i think. an monidirectional blast to kill someone is likely out of character for alex though. fighting in character IS still something that takes place under the new rules, right?

Slade having "superspeed" won't make the projectiles move faster, which means Alex will still have time to trigger his power.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Slade having "superspeed" won't make the projectiles move faster, which means Alex will still have time to trigger his power. No he won't.Bullets move way faster than the average human speed of thought.Especially DS's which are made to take out meta humans.

Has havok omniblasted someone from half a kilometer away before? I know he CAN, but does he do it as a battle tactic in comics?

If the omniblast DOES get out, Havoc wins as he's likely to vaporize the bullet w/in the omniblast before it hits him.

Originally posted by superbatman86
No he won't.Bullets move way faster than the average human speed of thought.Especially DS's which are made to take out meta humans.

Bullets also disintegrate faster than a thought too...just like Slade.

Havok more likely than not wins.

I'd have to go with Deathstroke here. Havok certainly has the powerset but a fast-draw bullet to the brain with the quickness would win out about 9 times out of 10...

Fastest bullet (in existence) would be about 4000 feet per second or about 1212 m/s (nearly Mach 4). From the looks of it, at 500 meters starting distance, Havoc gets half a second to think "omniblast".

This is a rifle bullet, tho. Most pistols slugs are fired at 1/4th this speed or over 400m/s. W/c would give Havoc far more time to think Omniblast.

Either way, I'd think that half a second would be enough time to think "omniblast" before the bullet hits him. This would then vaporize the bullet before it hits and poor ol' Slade, too.

That is, assuming Slade uses bullets based on RL physics. Does he have any feats wherein his bullets are moving at speeds beyond this?

He's got energy weapons too. Like his staff. And even if Havok got the omniblast out, Slade could dodge or possibly tank it. And even an omniblast won't stop his staff.

So is this a quickdraw match or something?

I don't know I would just see Havok trying to talk first, whereas the hired-to-gun Deathstroke would take no chances...

Been a while since I've been here so I'm rusty on the rules.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He's got energy weapons too. Like his staff. And even if Havok got the omniblast out, Slade could dodge or possibly tank it. And even an omniblast won't stop his staff.

Well, staff could def work. Don't know enough about Slade to debate this point (tho he's possibly the very first villain I've ever read about in my very first comic book back when I was 7, lol), so I'll just let the more knowledgeable posters debate this point.

DS would still have to think, draw, aim, fire and the beam would have to reach Alex.....That would still give Alex enough time to think "blast".

What I want to know is if Havok has precedence for just omniblasting right from the getgo.

Is he someone who kills without hesitation?

Because unless he takes out Deathstroke when the bell rings with an omniblast, Slade will take him down.

AFAIK, Alex has as much precedence of omniblasting from the start as Slade does of shooting people in the head from the start.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
What I want to know is if Havok has precedence for just omniblasting right from the getgo.

Is he someone who kills without hesitation?

Because unless he takes out Deathstroke when the bell rings with an omniblast, Slade will take him down.

Well, to be fair, the basic form of Havoc's power is a plasma wave that expands outwards. He has to focus the energy to blast specific targets (w/c he does a lot). Also, he's killed quite few ppl in WoK w/o hesitation.

Is Slade's staff heat based or concussion based?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Well, to be fair, the basic form of Havoc's power is a plasma wave that expands outwards. He has to focus the energy to blast specific targets (w/c he does a lot). Also, he's killed quite few ppl in WoK w/o hesitation.

Is Slade's staff heat based or concussion based?
I'm not sure. It seems to be concussive most of the time.

CIS can give DS the win (as usual). but if they were both to resort to killing from the get go. I'd say, Havok can activate his powers faster than deathstroke can draw the gun and shoot him.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm not sure. It seems to be concussive most of the time.

Well, if it's concussion, then it certainly stands a good chance to take down Havoc if it hits (as heat is not the best weapon vs Havoc). Has he used the staff in the past for med-long ranged combat?

Deathstroke should win this.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Well, if it's concussion, then it certainly stands a good chance to take down Havoc if it hits (as heat is not the best weapon vs Havoc). Has he used the staff in the past for med-long ranged combat?
Not sure. What do you define as mid-long range?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Not sure. What do you define as mid-long range?

500 meters.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
500 meters.
Idk then.

Deathstroke certainly has the marksmanship to pull such a shot off, the real question is what the effective range of his bo-staff is. I can't remember him ever using it for long range combat, its mostly a short range GTFO!1! weapon for dealing with annoying speedsters and mooks :3

How far away was that helicopter when blew it up with the staff's concussion blast?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Idk then.

Deathstroke certainly has the marksmanship to pull such a shot off, the real question is what the effective range of his bo-staff is. I can't remember him ever using it for long range combat, its mostly a short range GTFO!1! weapon for dealing with annoying speedsters and mooks :3

Battle starts at 500 meters by default, tho.

Originally posted by Existere
How far away was that helicopter when blew it up with the staff's concussion blast?

I was looking at that, too. From the art, I'd say no more than 100 meters tops.

Yo.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Where does it say that Havok has to "build up" before he can blast?

And even if it's true, DS would still have to think, aim, fire and the blast would have to reach Alex...that is going to take more than a second or two.

AFAIK, Alex doesnt ever start out at "max charge"; most of the appearances Ive seen w/him have shown him to have SOME amount of energy stored, but rarely enuff that he's annihilating EVERYTHING around him.

and saying that DS would have to "think, aim, fire and the blast would have to reach Alex" is far less of a problem for *him* than it is Havok.........

Originally posted by long pig
whoever strikes first wins. and i think only one thinks, moves and reacts faster than speed of thought. i i'd say mr 'before your brain can send an impulse to twitch your little finger i can put you down' seems pretty fast on the drawto me. this fight is essentially a quick draw contest and DS is one of the fastest draws in comics. ds puts a hole in his head before havok can even think to omniblast.

I can agree w/the underlined..........




Tazer

Deathstroke's speed and accuracy is being severely overestimated in this thread, he couldn't "quick draw" Deadshot standing 20 feet apart... but he puts a bullet in Alex's head from 500 meter's away before Alex can even think about blasting him? Get real.

Yo.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Not sure. What do you define as mid-long range?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
500 meters.

if its that close, it might be better for Slade to use a his sidearm; if he uses a snipers rifle its pretty much an auto-win at that distance.




Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Deathstroke's speed and accuracy is being severely overestimated in this thread, he couldn't "quick draw" Deadshot standing 20 feet apart... but he puts a bullet in Alex's head from 500 meter's away before Alex can even think about blasting him? Get real.

that DS is an expert marksman is a matter of comic record; 1 bad showing doesnt negate that.

also, if U factor in muzzle velocity for the various weapons he's used over the years...........then sure, why not?




Tazer

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Fastest bullet (in existence) would be about 4000 feet per second or about 1212 m/s (nearly Mach 4). From the looks of it, at 500 meters starting distance, Havoc gets half a second to think "omniblast".

This is a rifle bullet, tho. Most pistols slugs are fired at 1/4th this speed or over 400m/s. W/c would give Havoc far more time to think Omniblast.

Either way, I'd think that half a second would be enough time to think "omniblast" before the bullet hits him. This would then vaporize the bullet before it hits and poor ol' Slade, too.

That is, assuming Slade uses bullets based on RL physics. Does he have any feats wherein his bullets are moving at speeds beyond this?

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.





if its that close, it might be better for Slade to use a his sidearm; if he uses a snipers rifle its pretty much an auto-win at that distance.




Tazer

...

...

...

500 meters is like five foot ball fields. That isn't "close," in fact it is 5-10 times or more outside the effective distance of most hand guns. It would literally be impossible to make that shot with a side arm.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



that DS is an expert marksman is a matter of comic record; 1 bad showing doesnt negate that.

also, if U factor in muzzle velocity for the various weapons he's used over the years...........then sure, why not?




Tazer

Slade isn't Deadshot, Green Arrow, Hawkeye or Bullseye, he doesn't have any feats of expert marksman ship worth talking about. One time he tried to make a shot from 2k away... and he missed. He's good, he's not on par with the big dogs.

not top mention human reaction time is 0.2 seconds. sure DS's shorter, but havok would still have time to blast before he can draw, aim, fire and hit. havok takes this barring cis

Originally posted by 753
not top mention human reaction time is 0.2 seconds. sure DS's shorter, but havok would still have time to blast before he can draw, aim, fire and hit. havok takes this barring cis

Exactly, if Deathstroke wins, it's because Alex was holding back.

Originally posted by 753
not top mention human reaction time is 0.2 seconds. sure DS's shorter, but havok would still have time to blast before he can draw, aim, fire and hit. havok takes this barring cis

And speed of thought is much faster than reaction time.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Exactly, if Deathstroke wins, it's because Alex was holding back. Obviously.

Nobody's arguing that there would be much of a battle if Alex were to go all out from the get go.

But, taking personality and character traits into account, that wouldn't happen.

I'd argue that Slade would be more likely to shoot Alex before he got pegged with one of Alex's blasts, and that Alex wouldn't try anything particularly fancy before he was shot.

Originally posted by Existere
Obviously.

Nobody's arguing that there would be much of a battle if Alex were to go all out from the get go.

But, taking personality and character traits into account, that wouldn't happen.

I'd argue that Slade would be more likely to shoot Alex before he got pegged with one of Alex's blasts, and that Alex wouldn't try anything particularly fancy before he was shot.

Try rereading the first couple pages, that is exactly what they've been saying.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Try rereading the first couple pages, that is exactly what they've been saying. Sorry, which part of their posts was I supposed to be reading?

The parts that said that whoever hit first would win?

The parts that doubted Alex opening with an omnidirectional blast?

.

Originally posted by Existere
Sorry, which part of their posts was I supposed to be reading?

The parts that said that whoever hit first would win?

The parts that doubted Alex opening with an omnidirectional blast?

Please point out where in these posts they are questioning whether Alex would use the omniblast

Originally posted by long pig
whoever strikes first wins. and i think only one thinks, moves and reacts faster than speed of thought. i i'd say mr 'before your brain can send an impulse to twitch your little finger i can put you down' seems pretty fast on the drawto me. this fight is essentially a quick draw contest and DS is one of the fastest draws in comics. ds puts a hole in his head before havok can even think to omniblast.

Originally posted by long pig
why does he need to close distance. he carries a friggin cannon with him. plus after studying havoc a bit and it seems he has to build up before a blast like that. even if it's only a second or two it may as well be hours. Remember what was his ex wife said in #0, and i quote, 'He says he sees things slower than us normal people. Every minute is like an hour to him ' Do i believe that's litteral? no. but it gets the point across.

Originally posted by leonidas
quickdraw as the piggy said. if it comes down to that, ds does indeed put a bullet in alex's brain. if ds can't use his range weapon, alex wins 10/10

Originally posted by long pig
Not if he's drawing on a guy who can blast him before that thought can register.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Prove Alex has superspeed period. We know Deathstroke does.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
When the other guy dodges bullets and has wins against the Flash.

Originally posted by superbatman86
No he won't.Bullets move way faster than the average human speed of thought.Especially DS's which are made to take out meta humans.

Originally posted by Blight
I'd have to go with Deathstroke here. Havok certainly has the powerset but a fast-draw bullet to the brain with the quickness would win out about 9 times out of 10...

Originally posted by Silent Master
Please point out where in these posts they are questioning whether Alex would use the omniblast They're not. They're not discussing Alex going all out because it's not really relevant; those posters know forum rules well enough to realize that an omniblast wouldn't come into play in this scenario.

One post mentioned that Slade could shoot Alex before he could omniblast, which may or may not be true, and is still equally irrelevant. I'm not sure how anything that you're saying is actually contributing to the discussion topic of:

Can Slade take down Havok when Havok is decidedly not omniblasting?

I mean, congrats- you found a post that referenced an omniblast. Do you therefore feel validated that your post asserting something about a version of Havok not present in this battle was actually contributing?

If not, my point stands, and we can move forward with the actual thread.

Yet, they are discussing Slade going "all out" as he almost never starts out fights in the comics by going for head shots.

I've seen him fight Flash, Impulse, Batman, Nightwing, Bat-girl, Arsenal, the JLA, Titans and IIRC Manhunter(Paul) without starting with that tactic.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yet, they are discussing Slade going "all out" as he almost never starts out fights in the comics by going for head shots.

I've seen him fight Flash, Impulse, Batman, Nightwing, Bat-girl, Arsenal, the JLA, Titans and IIRC Manhunter(Paul) without starting with that tactic. Well, yes. Because that's actually within Slade's personality.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-019-20.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-021.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-024-25.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-026.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-027.jpg
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-028-29.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-030.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-031.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-032.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-033.jpg

Take a fight like that, for instance. Slade was avoiding killing Geoforce (as he says, on panel, as Geoforce is an investment), but he immediately starts the fight by dropping the man 20 stories, and then impaling him twice. He always fought with maximum force, which can't be said about Havok.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_img038.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_img039.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_img040.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_img041-042.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_img043.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_img045.jpg

Between the two of them, Slade is the known murderer, and if the plot doesn't require his opponents to live and it's within his power to end the conflict with a bullet or a sword, he will.

IOW, it's not a tactic that Slade actually uses, as my list of fights where he didn't use it suggests.

You're just going to hand-wave it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Slade isn't Deadshot, Green Arrow, Hawkeye or Bullseye, he doesn't have any feats of expert marksman ship worth talking about. One time he tried to make a shot from 2k away... and he missed. He's good, he's not on par with the big dogs.
I remember in "villain united" deathstroke and deadshot shooting at each other and deathstroke shown to be the better marksman.

Yo.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
...

...

...

500 meters is like five foot ball fields. That isn't "close," in fact it is 5-10 times or more outside the effective distance of most hand guns. It would literally be impossible to make that shot with a side arm.

not for somebody w/his physical stats AND a bionic eye.........

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Slade isn't Deadshot, Green Arrow, Hawkeye or Bullseye, he doesn't have any feats of expert marksman ship worth talking about. One time he tried to make a shot from 2k away... and he missed. He's good, he's not on par with the big dogs.

500m is less than 2km, so I dont think thats a good analogy to disqualify him not being able to peg a target.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

not for somebody w/his physical stats AND a bionic eye.........

500m is less than 2km, so I dont think thats a good analogy to disqualify him not being able to peg a target.


Tazer

Then you should have no trouble finding a scan where he makes a shot from at least 500 meters.

Yo.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yet, they are discussing Slade going "all out" as he almost never starts out fights in the comics by going for head shots.

I've seen him fight Flash, Impulse, Batman, Nightwing, Bat-girl, Arsenal, the JLA, Titans and IIRC Manhunter(Paul) without starting with that tactic.

he doesnt HAVE TO take a headshot to win this since Havok isnt bulletproof; a chest shot takes him down unless he's wearing that special weave of clothing the Xmen had during Lee's run of the Xmen in the 90s...........




Tazer

Originally posted by Silent Master


You're just going to hand-wave it. Oh, the irony.

Yo.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then you should have no trouble finding a scan where he makes a shot from at least 500 meters.

do U have a scan where Havok takes out *anybody* uning the omniblast as a starting tactic?




Tazer

Originally posted by MrMind
I remember in "villain united" deathstroke and deadshot shooting at each other and deathstroke shown to be the better marksman.

You are remembering wrong. They stood in front of each other and shot each other in the chest, for mutually assured destruction.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



not for somebody w/his physical stats AND a bionic eye.........



500m is less than 2km, so I dont think thats a good analogy to disqualify him not being able to peg a target.




Tazer

It has nothing to do with the capabilities of the shooter, it is limitations of the gun.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.


do U have a scan where Havok takes out *anybody* uning the omniblast as a starting tactic?


Tazer

I'm not the one that brought-up the tactic, that was rotiart and then long-pig said this was a quickdraw. My comments have been in regards to Alex's chances in a quickdraw type situation.

Now, do you agree that Alex would win a quickdraw?

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm not the one that brought-up the tactic, that was rotiart and then long-pig said this was a quickdraw. My comments have been in regards to Alex's chances in a quickdraw type situation.

Now, do you agree that Alex would win a quickdraw? Why would Alex win a quickdraw?

Please, outline.

Originally posted by Existere
Why would Alex win a quickdraw?

Please, outline.

In order for Slade to win a quick-draw, the following must happen

1) Think
2) Draw weapon
3) Aim weapon
4) Fire weapon
5) Projectile must reach Alex

In order for Alex to win a quick-draw, the following must happen

1) Think

Alex doesnt quick draw though, its not in his character. Slade wouldnt have an issue with it, thinks faster and he has faster reflexes.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Alex doesnt quick draw though, its not in his character. Slade wouldnt have an issue with it, thinks faster and he has faster reflexes.

So quickdraw is Slade's normal tactic?

Originally posted by Silent Master
In order for Slade to win a quick-draw, the following must happen

1) Think
2) Draw weapon
3) Aim weapon
4) Fire weapon
5) Projectile must reach Alex

In order for Alex to win a quick-draw, the following must happen

1) Think Havok is a telepath now?

The times, they are a-changin'.

Default distance from each other is .5 kilometers, 5000 metres (approximately 3.1 mi or 16404 ft). Slade can quick draw that.

For those who say Slade's gun cannot shoot that far.

http://s915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/?action=view&current=NewTeenTitans010-09.jpg

I agree if Havok does omniblast from the get go, he'd win. Not sure if this is in character for him or not. Slade doesn't just murder people willy nilly, either. At least, a well written Slade ala Marv Wolfman. He's more willing to murder and maim, though, and that's not worth debating. Voting for Havok is cool; lowballing Deathstroke, not so much.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I agree if Havok does omniblast from the get go, he'd win. Not sure if this is in character for him or not. Slade doesn't just murder people willy nilly, either. At least, a well written Slade ala Marv Wolfman. He's more willing to murder and maim, though, and that's not worth debating. Voting for Havok is cool; lowballing Deathstroke, not so much.


Not sure why it is that so many people like to lowball Slade on this forum.

Wait...no I know why.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I agree if Havok does omniblast from the get go, he'd win. Not sure if this is in character for him or not. Slade doesn't just murder people willy nilly, either. At least, a well written Slade ala Marv Wolfman. He's more willing to murder and maim, though, and that's not worth debating. Voting for Havok is cool; lowballing Deathstroke, not so much.

Believing that Alex can think "blast" before Slade can draw, aim, fire and have the projectile hit Alex IMO isn't lowballing Slade.

Yo.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It has nothing to do with the capabilities of the shooter, it is limitations of the gun.

ok fair enuff

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm not the one that brought-up the tactic, that was rotiart and then long-pig said this was a quickdraw. My comments have been in regards to Alex's chances in a quickdraw type situation.

Now, do you agree that Alex would win a quickdraw?

U didnt have to bring it up; U took the baton and ran w/it.....unless the following ISNT from U that is:

Originally posted by Silent Master
Quick draw favors the guy that can fire an omnidirectional energy blast with a thought.

so yur quickdraw tactic INVOLVED the omniblast......but U tried to distance yurself from using it??

strange............




Tazer

Originally posted by Omega Vision


Not sure why it is that so many people like to lowball Slade on this forum.

Wait...no I know why.

Because people get butt hurt about his "jobber aura" and/or prefer to put their favorite street/meta in front of him for whatever self serving reason. The fact that people get really stupid when Identity Crisis is brought up proves that much.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Believing that Alex can think "blast" before Slade can draw, aim, fire and have the projectile hit Alex IMO isn't lowballing Slade.

Oh, I don't think that is, either. That's more an opinion on Havok than it is a knock against Slade. I didn't mean for you to think I was accusing you specifically of such. As far as this fight goes, I'm mostly undecided as is.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Believing that Alex can think "blast" before Slade can draw, aim, fire and have the projectile hit Alex IMO isn't lowballing Slade. Alex might be able to think "blast", sure.

Slade however can jump and shoot at the same time. Or close the distance and then shoot.

Note when he easily shoots Geoforce while equally easily evading an attack. Unlike this situation, in those scans he couldn't see his opponent before having to dodge.

Yo.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Default distance from each other is .5 kilometers, 5000 metres (approximately 3.1 mi or 16404 ft). Slade can quick draw that.

ya got that wrong comrade: .5km is about 1500ft+, not 16k+.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

U didnt have to bring it up; U took the baton and ran w/it.....unless the following ISNT from U that is:


so yur quickdraw tactic INVOLVED the omniblast......but U tried to distance yurself from using it??

strange............

Tazer

I'll say this slower so that hopefully it will sink in. I was responding to Long-pig who was claiming that Slade would win even if Alex used the omniblast...which I disagree with.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Default distance from each other is .5 kilometers, 5000 metres Hmm.

Originally posted by Existere
Alex might be able to think "blast", sure.

Slade however can jump and shoot at the same time. Or close the distance and then shoot.

Note when he easily shoots Geoforce while equally easily evading an attack. Unlike this situation, in those scans he couldn't see his opponent before having to dodge.

Let me get this right, Slade is going to dodge an omniblast?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Let me get this right, Slade is going to dodge an omniblast? Oh, FFS.

Havok's not going to use an omniblast. Why would he? That's not remotely in character.

It IS in character for Deathstroke to use maximum force. This does not hold true for Alex.

Yo.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'll say this slower so that hopefully it will sink in. I was responding to Long-pig who was claiming that Slade would win even if Alex used the omniblast...which I disagree with.

L-P was coming from the standpoint that he could kill Alex *b4* he could use it, which IS possible if he has the right wep.

yur argument assumes Havok has enuff energy charged up that he'll take out 500m+ of an area. in a quickdraw. as a STARTING tactic.

hrmmm.....




Tazer

Originally posted by Existere
Hmm.

Copied from our rules.

Originally posted by Existere
Oh, FFS.

Havok's not going to use an omniblast. Why would he? That's not remotely in character.

It IS in character for Deathstroke to use maximum force. This does not hold true for Alex.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Copied from our rules.
It says in the rules that half a kilometer = 5 kilometers?

Originally posted by Existere
Oh, FFS.

Havok's not going to use an omniblast. Why would he? That's not remotely in character.

It IS in character for Deathstroke to use maximum force. This does not hold true for Alex.

Really, then how come he didn't do so againt Flash, Batman, Impulse, Arsenal, Batgirl, Nightwing etc etc etc.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Really, then how come he didn't do so againt Flash, Batman, Impulse, Arsenal, Batgirl, Nightwing etc etc etc. Are you saying that he held back against Flash, Batman, Impulse, Arsenal, Batgirl, Nightwing, etc?

Or just that he didn't kill them?

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.


L-P was coming from the standpoint that he could kill Alex *b4* he could use it, which IS possible if he has the right wep.

yur argument assumes Havok has enuff energy charged up that he'll take out 500m+ of an area. in a quickdraw. as a STARTING tactic.

hrmmm.....


Tazer

No, LP specifically said that DS could kill him before Alex could think "blast". Which isn't true.

Originally posted by Existere
It says in the rules that half a kilometer = 5 kilometers?


"Unless otherwise stated by the thread originator, the standard distance between combatants will be .5 kilometers in line of sight at the onset of battle, and there will be an implied "buzz" to signify the onset of battle. It will be assumed combatants are primed to go at the gun".

Originally posted by The Nuul
U"nless otherwise stated by the thread originator, the standard distance between combatants will be .5 kilometers in line of sight at the onset of battle, and there will be an implied "buzz" to signify the onset of battle. It will be assumed combatants are primed to go at the gun". Nevermind, Nuul.

Originally posted by Existere
Oh, FFS.

Havok's not going to use an omniblast. Why would he? That's not remotely in character.

It IS in character for Deathstroke to use maximum force. This does not hold true for Alex.

no, no, don't be silly. he's going to come in and prove a bunch of stuff any second. he's first going to prove that alex would blindly fire off an omniblast at the start of the battle. then he's going to prove that the blast would be effective over half a kilometer--in fact i bet he's even going to show a scan of havok unleashing a blast that COVERS half a kilometer. then he's going to prove havok is actually CHARGED with enough energy to even ATTEMPT this all-consuming omniblast at the start of the battle. then he's going to show that the blast would be powerful enough to ko slade from such a distance when slade has taken full point blank shots from starfire among other strong durability feats.

you just wait. it's coming.

Originally posted by Existere
Nevermind, Nuul.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



L-P was coming from the standpoint that he could kill Alex *b4* he could use it, which IS possible if he has the right wep.

yur argument assumes Havok has enuff energy charged up that he'll take out 500m+ of an area. in a quickdraw. as a STARTING tactic.

hrmmm.....




Tazer heh havok can destroy a lot more than that in one go and he doesnt need to "charge up"

BTW, Apparently Havok has better range than I thought. borrowed from his respect thread.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5705/xf100in7.th.jpg
Polaris levitating a EM sattelite bomb, notice she took it out of Earths Orbit..
http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/3105/xf100bys9.th.jpg
Hows that for accuracy and reach? X-factor 100...

Originally posted by Silent Master
BTW, Apparently Havok has better range than I thought. borrowed from his respect thread.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5705/xf100in7.th.jpg
Polaris levitating a EM sattelite bomb, notice she took it out of Earths Orbit..
http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/3105/xf100bys9.th.jpg
Hows that for accuracy and reach? X-factor 100...

never argued he couldn't shoot a focused beam that far. but if he's using focused beams slade can dodge. you need to show an omniblast that covers that sort of distance--which would be a full km if we're talking true omniblast.

Even LEO is about 2,000km. I see no reason to assume that his omniblast radius is over 4,000 times smaller than a focused blast.

Originally posted by leonidas
no, no, don't be silly. he's going to come in and prove a bunch of stuff any second. he's first going to prove that alex would blindly fire off an omniblast at the start of the battle. then he's going to prove that the blast would be effective over half a kilometer--in fact i bet he's even going to show a scan of havok unleashing a blast that COVERS half a kilometer. then he's going to prove havok is actually CHARGED with enough energy to even ATTEMPT this all-consuming omniblast at the start of the battle. then he's going to show that the blast would be powerful enough to ko slade from such a distance when slade has taken full point blank shots from starfire among other strong durability feats.

you just wait. it's coming. Haha, oh me of little faith.

Now, if Havok did shoot that blast, Slade might be ****ed. How fast is it? Plus, he's got a great healing factor, so could he tank a glancing blow?

In any case, I would argue that Slade could indeed draw and shoot faster than Havok could think to use omniblast, simply because the man is far faster and Havok has no speed feats to put him above a peak condition or thereabouts human.

It's the Terminator's fight to lose.

Odd then, how he's never managed to do so against. Batman, Nightwing, Arsenal or Batgirl etc etc etc

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Because people get butt hurt about his "jobber aura" and/or prefer to put their favorite street/meta in front of him for whatever self serving reason. The fact that people get really stupid when Identity Crisis is brought up proves that much.


I think a lot of it comes from the fact that he's a threat to a lot of vaunted Marvel Low Metas and Streets and haters like to try to hide that fact by selling him short.

He's pretty solind in the low meta tier, can take most others down sure. But I think it's the fact that his fans actually argue he can outreact the flash and superman cause he uses 90% of his brain that pisses people off.

Yo.

Originally posted by The Nuul
"Unless otherwise stated by the thread originator, the standard distance between combatants will be .5 kilometers in line of sight at the onset of battle, and there will be an implied "buzz" to signify the onset of battle. It will be assumed combatants are primed to go at the gun".

plz note: theres a decimal b4 the "5", which makes it ".5" or "0.5"........aka 500m.

Originally posted by Silent Master
No, LP specifically said that DS could kill him before Alex could think "blast". Which isn't true.

sure it is: thought does not = action.

its 1 thing to concieve of an action, and another thing to entirely to carry it out, even if ya dont need to move to do so. to be honest, you're actually thinking of *two* diff thoughts he'll be having.

Originally posted by Silent Master
BTW, Apparently Havok has better range than I thought. borrowed from his respect thread.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5705/xf100in7.th.jpg
Polaris levitating a EM sattelite bomb, notice she took it out of Earths Orbit..
http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/3105/xf100bys9.th.jpg
Hows that for accuracy and reach? X-factor 100...

nice accuracy & range to be sure, but note: 1) its a stationary target, 2) looks to me like he *was* building up the charge for that, and 3) see wat it did to him after it was spent?

unless U have Slade being held in 1 spot by promethium shackles, AND theres a sign pointing @ him saying "hey Havok, HERE HE AM!!!", then I dont see how the aboves proves yur point at all.......




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

sure it is: thought does not = action.

its 1 thing to concieve of an action, and another thing to entirely to carry it out, even if ya dont need to move to do so. to be honest, you're actually thinking of *two* diff thoughts he'll be having.

All Alex has to do to activate his power is think it, In order for DS to shoot Alex, he would have to think, draw, aim, fire and then the projectile would have to travel .5km before reaching Alex.

There is no way that is happening before Alex's powers activate.





It also traveled at least 4,000 times further than it would need to for this match. not that it matters as, Again, I'm not arguing that Alex wins by using this tactic, I'm just arguing that in a quick draw scenario like LP mentioned, there is no way that DS's attack would land before Alex could activate his power like LP claimed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
All Alex has to do to activate his power is think it, In order for DS to shoot Alex, he would have to think, draw, aim, fire and then the projectile would have to travel .5km before reaching Alex.

There is no way that is happening before Alex's powers activate.
If you insist on having this discussion...

Alex wouldn't need to just think 'blast'

He'd need to think 'ok, battle vs. deathstroke. who is that? where is he? should I omni-blast? ok, omni-blast, and here we go"

He could conceive the choice of whether or not to omni-blast before actually making that calculated decision.

Slade on the other hand wouldn't face a decision. He'd just shoot.

I'd like to emphasize (again) how irrelevant this all is, given that Alex won't, and (as emphasized by Leo) possibly can't omniblast from the get go. There's a complete lack of proof to justify that as a legitimate tactic for the character, so I'm not entirely sure why we're still talking about it.

Same could be said about Deastroke.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Same could be said about Deastroke. You could say it. You'd be wrong, and we'd continue off from the discussion and post that you failed to reply to on the previous page.

But you could say it.

Just like you're wrong about Havok not being ready to attack

Concerning the Battlefield
Unless otherwise stated by the thread originator, the standard distance between combatants will be .5 kilometers in line of sight at the onset of battle, and there will be an implied "buzz" to signify the onset of battle. It will be assumed combatants are primed to go at the gun.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Deathstroke's speed and accuracy is being severely overestimated in this thread, he couldn't "quick draw" Deadshot standing 20 feet apart... but he puts a bullet in Alex's head from 500 meter's away before Alex can even think about blasting him? Get real. First, Havok is not Deadshot, who has armor, meta speed and Bulkseye level marksmanship. Second, it was PIS both times. The first time DS was going through power loss. The second time they mutually decided to 'shoot each othe point blank until someone falls' total PIS. Time after time Ds has shown Quicksilver level reflexes, reaction and short movements. Sometimes faster. You realize he doesn't need a scope like in TT where his superhuman senses. his vision was telescopic. What is being over stated is the scope, range, power and speed of the omniblast. Nowhere has he ever done it instantly without some build up. it's not like it moves at lightspeed. Unlike DS staff.

Originally posted by Existere
Well, yes. Because that's actually within Slade's personality.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-019-20.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-021.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-024-25.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-026.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-027.jpg
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-028-29.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-030.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-031.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-032.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_LWT01-033.jpg

Take a fight like that, for instance. Slade was avoiding killing Geoforce (as he says, on panel, as Geoforce is an investment), but he immediately starts the fight by dropping the man 20 stories, and then impaling him twice. He always fought with maximum force, which can't be said about Havok.

YEAH BUT CHARACTERS FIGHT AT MAXIMUM POTENTIAL111!!! IT'S THE RULZ1111

Originally posted by 753
not top mention human reaction time is 0.2 seconds. sure DS's shorter, but havok would still have time to blast before he can draw, aim, fire and hit. havok takes this barring cis You don't get it. srank get's it but just likes arguing against me (not nearly as much as i like arguing against him cuz he's always wrong). Havock's reaction time is 0.2, Slade's reaction time is absolutely INSTANTANEOUS. infinitely faster reaction than Havock's. That 0.2 may as well be an hour. How do you think he out reacts so many speedsters on a regular basis? Instantaneous is a mother****er.

Originally posted by Silent Master
In order for Slade to win a quick-draw, the following must happen

1) Think
2) Draw weapon
3) Aim weapon
4) Fire weapon
5) Projectile must reach Alex

In order for Alex to win a quick-draw, the following must happen

1) Think DS thought process is always noted as instanteous and his mind and body are one with no delay between thinking of pulling his gun and then pulling it and shooting it. so, 1 2 and 3 are simultaneous. So they both only have one step, and Slade steps faster. The limitations of Havock's slow thought process and DS staff are the only question.

^ In one post man.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm just arguing that in a quick draw scenario like LP mentioned, there is no way that DS's attack would land before Alex could activate his power like LP claimed. DS'S attack doesn't need to land before Havock can activate his power source. DS'S attack needs to land before Havock see's his opponet, assess the situation, decides to blast, activates his power and engages the attack. The attack then finally has to reach DS BEFORE DS's blast reaches Havock. Whoever get's hit and dies first loses, the other wins. Even if havock's blast would have hit and killed stroke a half second after stroke's blast hit and kills havock, the rules say DS still wins.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Just like you're wrong about Havok not being ready to attack

Concerning the Battlefield
Unless otherwise stated by the thread originator, the standard distance between combatants will be .5 kilometers in line of sight at the onset of battle, and there will be an implied "buzz" to signify the onset of battle. It will be assumed combatants are primed to go at the gun. Right. Havok won't be taken unawares, he'll be ready to enter battle.

He still won't make battle decisions as fast as Deathstroke. Not only does the latter think much, much faster, but what are natural reflexes for Deathstroke are calculated reactions for Havok.

Anyways, this is becoming circular and isn't relevant to the overall thread.

You and your sensible logic can go straight to hell!

Originally posted by long pig
DS thought process is always noted as instanteous and his mind and body are one with no delay between thinking of pulling his gun and then pulling it and shooting it. so, 1 2 and 3 are simultaneous. So they both only have one step, and Slade steps faster. The limitations of Havock's slow thought process and DS staff are the only question.

Even if it his thoughts are "instanteous", Slade would still have to draw, aim, fire and have the projectile reach Alex. And that gives Alex plenty of time to activate his power.

Originally posted by long pig
You don't get it. srank get's it but just likes arguing against me (not nearly as much as i like arguing against him cuz he's always wrong). Havock's reaction time is 0.2, Slade's reaction time is absolutely INSTANTANEOUS. infinitely faster reaction than Havock's. That 0.2 may as well be an hour. How do you think he out reacts so many speedsters on a regular basis? Instantaneous is a mother****er. I think he outreacts them through pis and no, he doesnt have instantaneous reflexes, just shorter reaction times than havok.

semantics

sure they are. magneto has 0,013 seconds reaction time, so if DS took on magneto, would anyone actually claim he'd put a bullet between magneto's eyes before he torn him to pieces? bear in mind that even if mags is a lot more ruthless than havok, he still assesses a situation before killing people.

He doesn't? So you disagree with dozens and dozens of in-comic descriptions, hundreds of examples and his creator when asked about his powerset? Fact. Havock doesn't have a omniblast. He's got jubilee level blasts.

Originally posted by long pig
He doesn't? So you disagree with dozens and dozens of in-comic descriptions, hundreds of examples and his creator when asked about his powerset? Fact. Havock doesn't have a omniblast. He's got jubilee level blasts.


http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1350/nexus2vr0.th.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4583/vshulk2nz8.th.jpg

Originally posted by long pig
He doesn't? So you disagree with dozens and dozens of in-comic descriptions, hundreds of examples and his creator when asked about his powerset? Fact. Havock doesn't have a omniblast. He's got jubilee level blasts. facepalm read some of havok's feats.

yeah, I disagree with anyone that says he can outreact the flash without PIS. instantaneuous reactions don't even make any sense. he's struggled against high end street levellers and low metas on a consitent basis too btw.

Yeah, Alex is damn powerful and has a omniblast but he wont use it right away.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Yeah, Alex is damn powerful and has a omniblast but he wont use it right away.

Alex's power IS in the form of an omniblast. Early in his career, he's needed to maintain control of it to fire it in a controlled blast.

He doesn't use an omniblast much cuz he's had teammates, forcing him to learn to use it in controlled bursts.

But w/o the need to worry about teammates...!

Starfire is argubly more powerful than Alex.


Slade claims he's "faster and stronger than anyone else on earth"(meaning humans). He also claims his senses are increased a thousandfold.

http://s915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/?action=view&current=NewTeenTitans010-09.jpg

He dodged her blasts.

http://s915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/?action=view&current=NewTeenTitans010-10.jpg

Yet again and kicks her while shes in flight into a wall.

http://s915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/?action=view&current=NewTeenTitans010-11.jpg

She suprises him with a full strength blast, which he easily tanks, to her amazement. She says "you still live? Impossible!". Then he brings the whole building down wiith a bomb, having already accomplished his goal.

http://s915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/?action=view&current=NewTeenTitans010-12.jpg

He dodges pointblank gunfire, and smashes open a bamboo cage with a backfist.

http://s915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/?action=view&current=NewTeenTitansv1Annual03-10.jpg

Slade evades multiple machine gun fire from a helicopter.

http://s915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/?action=view&current=new_titans_v2_062_10_rougher.jpg


Slade quick draws Alex and IF Alex gets a shot off first Slade will still dodge it. Alex CANNOT dodge a gun. Slade still wins. Also, its NOT in Alexs character to omniblast right off the start. Slade wouldnt have an issue killing him back off the opening bell.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Alex's power IS in the form of an omniblast. Early in his career, he's needed to maintain control of it to fire it in a controlled blast.

He doesn't use an omniblast much cuz he's had teammates, forcing him to learn to use it in controlled bursts.

But w/o the need to worry about teammates...!

Thats nice, he still wont use it just like Scott wont use get off my lawn right away.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Thats nice, he still wont use it just like Scott wont use get off my lawn right away.

Like I said, what's Slade gonna hit him with at that range?

Also, Havoc has been able to make force fields before.

At gun, duhhhh. Look at how far he shot Starfire.

http://s915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/?action=view&current=NewTeenTitans010-09.jpg

Yes he can.

Slade still makes the shot before Alex uses his rare feat.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Yeah, Alex is damn powerful and has a omniblast but he wont use it right away.

I'm not actually saying he will, I'm just disagreeing with the notion that even if Havok did, DS would be able to kill him before Alex can even activate the power.

Slade will kill him before Alex even thinks or reacts. Why are you ignoring feats and Slades character?

Originally posted by The Nuul
At gun, duhhhh. Look at how far he shot Starfire.

http://s915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/?action=view&current=NewTeenTitans010-09.jpg

Yes he can.

Slade still makes the shot before Alex uses his rare feat.

Bullets aren't instantaneous.

A bullet travels (even a sniper bullet) about 4000feet/sec or about 1212m/sec. At 500 meter starting distance, gives Havoc half a second to think "omniblast" or "plasma shielding". If that happens, the bullet is vaporized before it hits him. Said this many times alrdy... >_<

Originally posted by The Nuul
Slade will kill him before Alex even thinks or reacts. Why are you ignoring feats and Slades character?

Slade isn't a telepath, so he needs to do more than just think "kill Havok" and that Starfire scan didn't look like a .5km shot, plus he took time to aim so it wasn't a quickdraw.

There is zero reason to believe that Slade will be able to actually shoot Alex(from .5km away) before Havok is able to activate his power.

Originally posted by Silent Master

There is zero reason to believe that Slade will be able to actually shoot Alex(from .5km away) before Havok is able to activate his power.

Well its possible, but people seem to be arguing its a foregone conclusion.

Originally posted by Deadline
Well its possible, but people seem to be arguing its a foregone conclusion.

That would have to be an extremely fast bullet, as normally the time it would take the bullet to cross that distance would give Alex more than the time needed to activate his power.

Originally posted by Silent Master
That would have to be an extremely fast bullet, as normally the time it would take the bullet to cross that distance would give Alex more than the time needed to activate his power.

Look man lets not get into exact math DS is fast enough to shoot people with superhuman reflexes, he could shoot Havok.

Originally posted by Deadline
Look man lets not get into exact math DS is fast enough to shoot people with superhuman reflexes, he could shoot Havok.

And people w/normal human level reactions are fast enough to react to Slade's attacks. See Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl, Arsenal etc.

Originally posted by Silent Master
And people w/normal human level reactions are fast enough to react to Slade's attacks. See Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl, Arsenal etc.

Yea but they have better reflexes than Havok.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yea but they have better reflexes than Havok.

They were also much closer than .5km.

Originally posted by Silent Master
And people w/normal human level reactions are fast enough to react to Slade's attacks. See Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl, Arsenal etc.

Those characters do not have normal reflexes, they are above normal. Hell, Scott is faster and has a better reaction time than Alex.

Originally posted by Silent Master
They were also much closer than .5km.

You can make arguments for and against. I suspect he might have been holding back ie not shooting to kill.


Originally posted by The Nuul
Hell, Scott is faster and has a better reaction time than Alex.

What? Maybe.

They are all within human limits and the fact remains that they've all been able to react to Slade while much closer than .5km, so there is zero reason for me to believe that Alex will be unable to activate his powers.