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All the "mutants" from the movie "Push":

Watchers: Watchers have the ability to foresee the future to varying degrees. As knowledge of the future invariably causes that future to change, Watchers' visions of the future in their direct sphere of influence are subject to frequent shifting.

Movers: Movers are powerful telekinetics who are trained to identify the specific atomic frequency of a given material and alter the gravitational field around it, usually causing the nearby air to appear warped. This allows them to move both animate and inanimate objects. Advanced Movers can work at the molecular level, creating protective force fields in the air around them or to reinforce punches and other strikes to make them stronger.

Pushers: Pushers have the ability to implant memories, thoughts and emotions into the minds of other people in order to manipulate them. The skill level of the Pusher determines how many people the Pusher is able to control at one time, and how vivid the implanted memories are. A powerful Pusher can push a large group of people at the same time, basically creating a personal army. A Pusher is able to make a person do anything the Pusher desires, even commit suicide. A Pusher's eyes indicate how powerful they are: their pupils will dilate to certain degrees depending on how powerful the push is (for example, Henry Carver's eyes are rendered completely black, signifying that he is an extremely able and effective Pusher).

Bleeders: Bleeders have the ability to emit high-pitched sonic vibrations that cause ruptures in a target's blood vessels. While using this ability, their pupils turn into vertical slits, like a snake's, because of synthetic materials implanted in them to protect the blood vessels from the effects of their own ability. They are also sometimes known as Screechers or Screamers.

Sniffs: Sniffs are highly developed psychometrics who can track the location of people or objects over varying distances. Like bloodhounds, their ability is increased if they have tactile access to an object that has been in direct contact with the subject. Sniffs receive information in the form of images, which is why identifiable landmarks help increase their effectiveness.

Shifters: Shifters can temporarily alter the appearance of an object by manipulating the patterns of light interacting with it. Once the illusion is established, it remains with the object for a short period of time. For example, a Shifter could touch a one dollar bill and alter it to appear as a one hundred dollar bill until the effect expires. The object shifted must have roughly the same dimensions as the object it is shifted into. The length of time that the effect will last is based on the Shifter's experience and ability.

Wipers: Wipers are skilled at either temporarily or permanently erasing memory, an invaluable asset in espionage. Experience will dictate the accuracy of their wipes, though there is always the danger that they will eliminate a desired memory.

Shadows: Shadows are trained to block the vision of other clairvoyants such as Sniffs, making any subject within their target radius appear "dark". Experience will enhance the size of the area they can shadow and the intensity of their shielding effect. Shadows need to be awake to manifest their ability, so it is common for a detail of two Shadows to operate in shifts while protecting a person or object for extended periods. Most Shadows are effective only against Sniffs, but some extremely powerful Shadows are able to block even Watchers.

Stitches: Stitches are psychic surgeons trained to quickly reconstruct cells to their previous or healthy state. Using only their hands, they can heal and even "unheal" whatever they have done. For more detailed work, Stitches use a silver based cream on their hands which acts as a conductor for their ability.


Versus all of the mutants from the X Men movies.



The Push crew are all banded together and have decided to take on the X Men mutants, who they view as a threat. The X Men mutants put their differences aside and team up to defeat the Push crew. The fight takes place all over the world, and both sides can use any and all resources to win. This is not necessarily a fight to the death, just to the win, incapacitation can achieve victory. Jean Grey is Jean Grey here, not Dark Phoenix. No Cerebro bullshit either.

Prof X is beyond anything we saw a Pusher do. This is a win for the real mutants; the Push crew simply doesn't have enough offense.

X can mind rape, yes, but so can a few of the Pushers. The chick was mind raping large groups of asians at once and controlling them like puppets.

Also, X is easily taken out by a bleeder. The Pushers have more than enough offense to win this.

Also, the Pushers have watchers, invaluable here.

Xavier is too much, he froze an entire mall full of people and altered their memories accordingly. He doesn't have to see who he's affecting, he merely thinks and finds minds.

The mutants win based on overall ability and confirmed superior numbers. And to add to that the most powerful pusher was Keera and she only controlled at max five people at a time at the end of the movie. The watchers can be compared to a man tied to the train tracks. He may see the train coming but he cant do anything about it, same applies here. To even add to that they also used for the most part human muscle to enforce and control these decisions as far as I an remember and the only odd thing was a Bleeder or Sniffer which most mutants should be able to take care of.

msybe they do have the offense, but they're not overcoming the sheer numbers. We can only use the the people we saw in the movies, not presumed characters. Also, the watchers can only watch one person, iirc.

This is where Watchers come into play. They can see the future, like Alice the Twivamp. They can see where X is at a point in the future and send a bleeder to **** him up. Also, likely a Shadow will affect X's abilities.


Seeing the future>>>>WIN.

how many watchers were there in Push? 2 or 3? Also, didn't the watchers need to know the person in order to watch the person's decisions? They don't even know who Prof X is...

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This is where Watchers come into play. They can see the future, like Alice the Twivamp. They can see where X is at a point in the future and send a bleeder to **** him up. Also, likely a Shadow will affect X's abilities.


Seeing the future>>>>WIN.

I don't recall Push all that well, but unless they can TP right on Xavier and ripe his throat out in a second, they're ****ed. He'll sense them coming; know their intent (though I assume he knows as this is a battle) and make them believe they're Japanese school-girls. He's got range.

Originally posted by marwash22
how many watchers were there in Push? 2 or 3? Also, didn't the watchers need to know the person in order to watch the person's decisions? They don't even know who Prof X is...


There were three I think, two saw the future clearly, one was a novice. The asian chick was uber.

All my threads here, the combatants have at least general knowledge of their enemy.

general knowledge is all fine and well. But I'm pretty sure the watchers needed some sort of contact with their target before being able to watch them... just knowing that Xavier is a person they need to kill, isn't enough to watch him.

I believe that was where the sniffers came in and they still needed a personal item of his. Anyway who are they going to send if the even manage to locate the mutants? Anyone sent will be killed once you get into the most important people. Imagine them sending a Sniffer and a Bleeder against magneto in one of Magnetos own places. It'll be suicide.

Originally posted by marwash22
general knowledge is all fine and well. But I'm pretty sure the watchers needed some sort of contact with their target before being able to watch them... just knowing that Xavier is a person they need to kill, isn't enough to watch him. Not true. The young watcher was watching Chris Evans' character before they even met.

Originally posted by McNasty996
I believe that was where the sniffers came in and they still needed a personal item of his. Anyway who are they going to send if the even manage to locate the mutants? Anyone sent will be killed once you get into the most important people. Imagine them sending a Sniffer and a Bleeder against magneto in one of Magnetos own places. It'll be suicide. You're kidding, right? One bleeder will take out multiple mutants, man. And Push TK was more powerful than X Men TK.

One bleeder>>>Any X Men.

i've only seen push in bits and pieces..

however the mutants seem to be to much for them

Mutants stomp.

Xavier can use his powers to "freeze" everyone like he did in XM2. Jean Gray could also take down any "mover" or "bleeder" with absolute ease, as could Magneto and Storm.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
i've only seen push in bits and pieces..

however the mutants seem to be to much for them How you figure? Push TK is stronger, a Bleeder can take out scores of mutants, and pushers can mind rape as easily as Xavier can. Besides, Xavier is mind raping no one if a bleeder is ****ing him up.

Not to mention the Stitchers who can kill you just by touching you, and the watchers, who can see the future. Shadows will at the very least hinder Xavier.




Seeing the future, dude. Think about it. The Push crew is way too strong. Do I really need to post youtube clips?

X-men. They outnumber and outclass the Push team overall.

Key Mutants in a fight:

* Professor X

* Jason Stryker

* Juggernaut (Unstopibol)

* Nightcrawler (Unstopibol)

* Deadpool (Unstopibol)

* Wolverine

* Lady Deathstrike

* Shadow Cat (Unstopibol)

* Mystique

* Colossus

* Magneto

* Cyclops

* Rogue

* John Wraith (Teleporter with guns)

* Kitty Pryde (Makes Prof X intangible and they go on a mind-rape spree, shes also unstopibol herself)

* Siryn

* Psylocke

* Callisto (Locate mutants = good game?)

* Multiple Man (100 decoys anyone?)

* Storm

* Sabretooth

* Agent Zero

* Emma Frost (Unstopibol)



Others:

* Jean Grey

* Ice Man

* Pyro

* Silverfox

* Bradley

* Gambit

* Blob

* Toad

* Beast

* Wade Wilson

* All of Magneto's Army mutants in X3

* All mutants kidnapped in Origins

* All mutants at Xavier Institute

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
How you figure? Push TK is stronger, a Bleeder can take out scores of mutants, and pushers can mind rape as easily as Xavier can. Besides, Xavier is mind raping no one if a bleeder is ****ing him up.

Not to mention the Stitchers who can kill you just by touching you, and the watchers, who can see the future. Shadows will at the very least hinder Xavier.




Seeing the future, dude. Think about it. The Push crew is way too strong. Do I really need to post youtube clips?


its simple really, they have no answer for Xavier, or Jean who could prolly solo... nor do they have an answer for Logan who could solo as well..

Originally posted by Placidity
X-men. They outnumber and outclass the Push team overall.

Key Mutants in a fight:

* Professor X

* Jason Stryker

* Juggernaut (Unstopibol)

* Nightcrawler (Unstopibol)

* Deadpool (Unstopibol)

* Wolverine

* Lady Deathstrike

* Shadow Cat (Unstopibol)

* Mystique

* Colossus

* Magneto

* Cyclops

* Rogue

* John Wraith (Teleporter with guns)

* Kitty Pryde (Makes Prof X intangible and they go on a mind-rape spree, shes also unstopibol herself)

* Siryn

* Psylocke

* Callisto (Locate mutants = good game?)

* Multiple Man (100 decoys anyone?)

* Storm

* Sabretooth

* Agent Zero

* Emma Frost (Unstopibol)



Others:

* Jean Grey

* Ice Man

* Pyro

* Silverfox

* Bradley

* Gambit

* Blob

* Toad

* Beast

* Wade Wilson

* All of Magneto's Army mutants in X3

* All mutants kidnapped in Origins

* All mutants at Xavier Institute I actually meant the X Men themselves, not all the mutants. My fault for ****ing up the OP. Even so, the Pushers have the entire Division and the Triad on their side.

All Mutants versus the Pushers, the Division and the Triad, and yeah, the X Men mutants are far outnumbered.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
its simple really, they have no answer for Xavier, or Jean who could prolly solo... nor do they have an answer for Logan who could solo as well..


Oh my facepalm ..........Xavier? There are two pushers who can do exactly what he can, and Shadows will hinder him. Jean? Her TK is not near as strong as the Movers, it's not even close. Logan? Lulz, dude, one Triad bleeder turns Logan's brain to mush. Not to mention, not to mention, dude, that the Push crew has watchers that can see the future crystal clear.


See, I know you and the others WANT the X Men to win, but it aint happening.

Here, check it:

* Chris Evans as Nick Gant, a Mover living in Hong Kong in order to stay hidden from Division, whose father was killed by Carver. He was born in America and once had a relationship with Kira. One form of income - although not always successful - is to manipulate betting games involving dice using his ability.
o Colin Ford as a young Nick Gant.
* Dakota Fanning as Cassie Holmes, the daughter of the greatest Watcher Division has ever encountered, and a Watcher in her own right. Like all abilities, hers is not fully developed as this happens through training. She is sometimes confused by what she draws in her premonitions.
* Camilla Belle as Kira Hudson/Hollis, a high-level Pusher, a recent escapee of Division, and the only Division patient to have survived experimentation.
* Djimon Hounsou as Agent Henry Carver, a Division agent and a powerful Pusher that killed Nick's father. He is sent to recapture Kira.
* Ming-Na as Emily Hu, a Sniffer who helps Nick & Cassie find Kira. She works as a fortune teller in Hong Kong.
* Cliff Curtis as "Hook" Waters, a Shifter. He used to be in Division and after getting out, his wife died in a car accident, and he knew Division was involved since his wife didn't drive. Since he moved to Hong Kong, hanging out in high class escort bars where he uses his shifting ability to pay his way. He implies that Nick's father had a similar past. He has a habit of saying "that won't last long" after he uses his abilities to help.
* Nate Mooney as "Pinky" Stein, a Shadow who hid Kira from the Sniffs. His nickname is derived from Division's removal of his right "pinky" finger.
* Corey Stoll as Agent Mack, a Sniffer agent.
* Scott Michael Campbell as Agent Holden, a Reader agent.
* Neil Jackson as Victor Budarin, an advanced Mover and Carver's right hand man.
* Maggie Siff as Teresa Stowe, a Stitch who helps heal Nick after an encounter with the bleeders, as requested by Cassie's mother, who told her to be in a certain place at a certain time and help whomever was there. She is, however, not seen as altruistic, but, instead, out for personal gain, rather than helping Cassie and Nick overthrow Division.
* Paul Car as Wo Chiang, a Wiper who lives on a house boat in Hong Kong Harbour.
* Xiao Lu Li as Pop Girl, a Chinese Triad Watcher femme fatale who tries to find Nick and Cassie throughout Hong Kong. Like Cassie, she draws her visions. Her visions are based on others' intentions and decisions.
* Kwan Fung Chi, Jacky Heung as Pop Boys, the two Triad Bleeders.
* Haruhiko Yamanouchi as Pop Father, Triad Bleeder and father to the three 'Pop' siblings.
* Joel Gretsch as Nick's father, an advanced Mover whose refusal to join the Division cost him his life. It is implied the he and Hook share a similar past.
* N/A as Cassie's mother, a powerful Watcher who was captured by Division and forced to work for them. It is through her that most of the events occur as she helped Kira escape Division HQ, paid Wo to erase Kira's memories, as well as get Teresa in the right place to heal Nick and told Nick's father to tell his son to follow the one who gave him a flower. Though this alone shows the strength of her Watcher abilities, as she saw this all happen at least a decade ago where most can only see a few hours or days into the future.



There's the Push crew. They have the entire division and the Triad backing them, as stated in the OP. And since It's too late to amend it, yes, include all mutants from the X Men movies.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Oh my facepalm ..........Xavier? There are two pushers who can do exactly what he can, and Shadows will hinder him.
Really? Have the pushers ever used there telepthany on hundreds of people simultaneously? Or how about locking away part of someone's mind for years? Or how about placing their minds in someone elses body? And proove that a shadow will hinder his ability. I don't recall them having any protetion from the pushers... Xavier can shut down all, or at least most, of the minds of the people from Push.



Lulz... She lifts a plane and holds back a flood simultaneously. And she also lifted an entire block of cars at once.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I actually meant the X Men themselves, not all the mutants. My fault for ****ing up the OP. Even so, the Pushers have the entire Division and the Triad on their side.


Ok.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
All Mutants versus the Pushers, the Division and the Triad, and yeah, the X Men mutants are far outnumbered.

All X-men mutants far out number all Push mutants.

Oh and Professor X, and Shadow Cat can solo.

Edit: Ok, since we're back to using everyone, X-men mutants win as per previous post.

You can't used unknown division/triad people... only characters we've seen on-screen.

^ Doesn't matter if he did, their powersets are too limited (relatively), with no counter to some of the X-men mutants.

_QkxEzKuvSk

2.00. Especially look at 2.15. Iirc all the movers did was block bullets. Optic blasts >>>>> bullets.



Also that.



/thread.

Give Nightcrawler a knife, and let Wraith go about his business, and Deadpool. Those three solo just about everybody in moments, with that German and Chris Evans maybe giving them trouble with their force fields.

For them though there's Colossus, Juggernaut, Shadow Cat, and of course Xavier.

Originally posted by ares834
Really? Have the pushers ever used there telepthany on hundreds of people simultaneously? Or how about locking away part of someone's mind for years? Or how about placing their minds in someone elses body? And proove that a shadow will hinder his ability. I don't recall them having any protetion from the pushers... Xavier can shut down all, or at least most, of the minds of the people from Push. Two things: Watchers and shadows. Watchers see the future, Shadows block clairvoyance. If they can see the future, all the push crew has to do is send a stitch and a shadow after Xavier. The shadow will shield the stitch from being detected. All the stitch has to do is touch X when he is out and about, doing whatever. This will **** him up and good. One fingertip for a microsecond on him and he's useless, rolling on the ground in pain. Hell, they can just send 30 or 40 gun toting Triads and some Bleeders.

There's so many ways to kill Xavier it's ridiculous. The watchers are key here, they are what makes this a win for the Push crew. Without them, yes, the X Men probably rape.





Right, I should have said more versatile, not more powerful. The Movers were shown taking on 10-12 gunmen armed with automatic weapons, and they blocked all the gunfire, AND fought back with TK. Surround Jean with that many gunmen and she's toast.

And the movers were shown grabbing each other with TK and throwing each other around like rag dolls. Observe:

QKQctage_88&feature=related

You can also see the black haired chick mind raping multiple gunmen at once. She had them turning in unison, as one, firing on her enemies, AND was making them walk off the roof. She can do everything Xavier can, man. Put Jean on that rooftop with all those gunmen and she dies.

For the rest of you guys, get a clue, man.

Watchers: See the future. Cassie's mother was capable of seeing a decade into the future FFS.

Bleeders: Can and will take out multiple mutants at once.

Shadows: Can and will block Xavier from sensing the location of the Push crew.

Movers: Their TK is much better suited for battle than Jean Greys is.

Stitches: One touch and their opponent is done.


The division: A govt. agency, man. Send hundreds of gunmen after the X Men and they'll be overwhelmed.



I know you guys want the X Men to win, but it's not gonna happen.

Cool, they can see the future. They see people attending their funerals.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
For the rest of you guys, get a clue, man.

Watchers: See the future. Cassie's mother was capable of seeing a decade into the future FFS.
.

Not going to help. They see shadow cat coming to rape them, what are they going to do? Nothing. Same with many of the other mutants, Push team can't do jack. Their precog is also limited, funny you compared it to Alice. All they were shown seeing is how somebody is going to be at a particular place. Not very combat effective.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Bleeders: Can and will take out multiple mutants at once.


Sure. And then Nightcrawler/Deadpool/Wraith kills all of them in 3 seconds. How many bleeders were shown in the film? Like 1? 2? 3?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Shadows: Can and will block Xavier from sensing the location of the Push crew.


Yea no.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Movers: Their TK is much better suited for battle than Jean Greys is.


Agreed. There are two of them. They die quickly against all the mutants.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Stitches: One touch and their opponent is done.


Yea no.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

The division: A govt. agency, man. Send hundreds of gunmen after the X Men and they'll be overwhelmed.


Gunmen nice, that'll work against people like Magneto and Xavier amirite.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

I know you guys want the X Men to win, but it's not gonna happen.

You don't know anything. X-men win based on facts.

RJ at absolute maximum there are what 16 pushers in all and most of whom we have never seen on screen. And about the bleeders finding them as we saw when they ambushed Nick it takes at least 3 -5 seconds to render someone completely helpless which is how he was still able to push them away during that time. And just like the Watcher situation they can still be wrecked through trickery or misinformation as shown at the end of the movie with inly the Japanese girl being worth anything and even then they can on functionally take down one mutant at a time and even then imagine them trying to jump someone like cyclops or deapool it would be a slaughter. Whats stopping Magneto from having Callisto find the Watchers first and Crush them under mountains of metal or Callisto run around with a Louisville Slugger? The only real direct combat effective people are the Bleeders, Movers and the Pushers and they are so low in number confirmed and coupled with their less capable abilities when referencing to someone like Xavior that its just nowhere near enough. Hell, put Xavior even in the vicinity of the building they are hiding in and everyone kills each other or goes after Keera who is the only possible person to defend from this.

X-Men win with ease.

RJ gimped the Pushers because he didn't give each side prep.


If the Push muties get prep, they win 10/10 times.


RJ gimped the Push characters. He's not even back a day and he's already gimping.

I fail to see, even with prep, how they'd deal with an intangible Prof. X.

Originally posted by dadudemon

If the Push muties get prep, they win 10/10 times.


No they wouldn't.

X-men would know they have precog, and would plan accordingly. Best plan would be to strike straight away.

Also don't Watchers just receive 'visions'? Like they don't get to selectively watch someone like Alice can.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I fail to see, even with prep, how they'd deal with an intangible Prof. X.

You don't see how seeing the future will help? Time is "perception" of events.


With prep, Kitty doesn't even get a chance to put her hand on the Professor because they are not aware of the assassin that is "dark" to all the Telepaths.



Well, I'd like to see someone argue against that because I could easily argue with myself and pwn myself from both sides. Arguing with myself is not fun.

Originally posted by Placidity
No they wouldn't.

X-men would know they have precog, and would plan accordingly. Best plan would be to strike straight away.

Also don't Watchers just receive 'visions'? Like they don't get to selectively watch someone like Alice can.

Yeah, it's a landslide victory. And, no, that's the little girl with no training that didn't know shit.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You don't see how seeing the future will help? Time is "perception" of events.


With prep, Kitty doesn't even get a chance to put her hand on the Professor because they are not aware of the assassin that is "dark" to all the Telepaths.
.

What? Who is this mystery assassin?

They have prep time, and then this random guy teleports in next to Xavier right after and kills him?

Wat?

Edit: Ok, it seems you just pulled that completely out of your bum.

X-men win. Even with prep involved. Which they don't.

Originally posted by Placidity
What? Who is this mystery assassin?

They have prep time, and then this random guy teleports in next to Xavier right after and kills him?

Wat?

Edit: Ok, it seems you just pulled that completely out of your bum.

X-men win. Even with prep involved. Which they don't.


No prep in this thread.


I was saying that WITH prep, they win 10 out of 10 times.

And, did you watch Push? I've seen both Push and all the X-men movies. I think it's rather close-minded and bias to think that the Muties have a chance IF the Push peeps are given prep.


Why haven't you made actual good arguments, though?

Such as: Clairvoyance is not telepathy.

Professor Xavier has been gimped because he cannot use Cerebro, a legit tool.

Jean has been gimped because she cannot use her full powers.

The pushers are not gimped at all besides the no-future seeing due to not prep time.


The only thing I've read in this thread is whining/complaining/bitching/trolling about what one side can do or cannot do.

Seeing someone doesn't mean shit when there is literally no way to affect them.



Could you rephrase that, please? I don't see how they could stop her, but anyway, with prep she can be touching him before the fight even starts.



Agreed. What?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Seeing someone doesn't mean shit when there is literally no way to affect them.

My bad: I did not know that there was only one character participating from the Push side.


Edit - *Checks the OP*


Huh?


I'm confused now. What are you talking about in that? Your point makes no sense, even in the slightest.

Granted, I don't think you intended to trick me...but I almost DID fall for it.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Could you rephrase that, please? I don't see how they could stop her, but anyway, with prep she can be touching him before the fight even starts.

Time - Kitty has to move from point A to point B, touch the professor, and activate her powers.

Future events being "present" with a Watcher: That event is seen and prevented.


Result: RJ not giving each side Prep time was almost completely a gimp for the Push side.

Conclusion: Push was gimped from the beginning and I do not see a way they can win, at all, without a "jump" on the muties.

Are you high, or just being intentionally dense?

Do you understand the concept of intangibility? They cannot touch him. They cannot affect him. There is nothing they can do to stop him from turning their minds into mush.



HOW!? It's prep, you can't attack each other during prep! Thats the whole ****ing point of prep. And how exactly can they stop her from going to touch Xavier? Swords of ****ing Revealing Light? They can't stop her. They can't teleport on top of her and stop her from just walking over to him and touching him. Even if they could, she's intangible. They can't do shit to her.



No, X-verse stomps either way.



Jump? This isn't Jumper, this is Push. They're completely different movies.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Are you high, or just being intentionally dense?

No, I was pretending to not know that there was more than one person participating in the thread from the Push side, then checking the OP, then seeing that there were lots of other characters (which both you and I already knew), and then posting about it, sarcastically, that you had almost tricked me.


And, I pose the same question to you:

"Are you high, or just being intentionally dense?"

Originally posted by Nephthys
Do you understand the concept of intangibility? They cannot touch him. They cannot affect him. There is nothing they can do to stop him from turning their minds into mush.

In this thread, yes, because RJ didn't give prep time: a requirement for anyone with Clairvoyance or "future" seeing abilities.



Originally posted by Nephthys
HOW!? It's prep, you can't attack each other during prep! Thats the whole ****ing point of prep. And how exactly can they stop her from going to touch Xavier? Swords of ****ing Revealing Light? They can't stop her. They can't teleport on top of her and stop her from just walking over to him and touching him. Even if they could, she's intangible. They can't do shit to her.

You're so angry. Please tell me how not attacking each other during prep affects anything I've stated? In all honesty, I think you're quoting the wrong person...cause there's no way that you could be talking to me with the above post.

And, also, please tell me how she's "intangible" to everything that the Push people have to throw at her?



Originally posted by Nephthys
No, X-verse stomps either way.

No, Push wins when prep is involved, easily. Push loses without prep, easily.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Jump? This isn't Jumper, this is Push. They're completely different movies.

ZOMG! Thank you sooooooo much for telling me that. WHAT WOULD I DO WITHOUT YOU TELLING ME THAT? Man, you're such a life-saver.


Or is it possible that you WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off with your commment!>!>!>!>!L:jlfk as;lfjk a;lfkj aslkfj as;dlfkj aljkf ;


Nephthys, you are...I don't even. It's more like you're posting at me...with rage. You're not even making counters...you're just raging. Calm down, think clearly, and stop raging. Yes, I'm serious.

With prep the X-men can start off with Xavier as intangiable, along with whoever else they want... They can also create a super powered Rouge.

Originally posted by ares834
With prep the X-men can start off with Xavier as intangiable, along with whoever else they want... They can also create a super powered Rouge.

Okay, I change my mind.






See, this is what reasoning does for me. lol Take notes, Nephthys .

Yes, I understood your joke. It was hilarious and oh so witty. What I didn't understand was how it had any relevence to what I said. I didn't say that there was only one person on the field. I didn't even insinuate that. What I said was that due to intangibility, them having clairvoyance doesn't matter because even if they can see the future they cannot affect it whatsoever. I'm..... honestly struggling to see how you could be confused on that point, which is why I was asking whether you were 'mentally impaired' in some way or just trolling me. To be frank, I'm still not sure you're not.



Which goes back to my first question: Even if they had prep time, how would they deal with intangibility? How does clairvoyance negate that in any way?



'Time - Kitty has to move from point A to point B, touch the professor, and activate her powers.

Future events being "present" with a Watcher: That event is seen and prevented.'

How will they 'prevent' her from walking over and touching him during prep time? Your argument makes no sense, again causing me to question your state of mind.



Movers can't move her, Xavier mentally shitstomps the Pushers and the Wipers, Bleeders can't bleed her, Stitchers can't touch her and of course they can't be shot. Nothing will be able to stop them at all.



No, see above.



Well what the hell did you mean about them having a 'jump' on the muties? The **** does that even mean?


Originally posted by dadudemon
Okay, I change my mind.






See, this is what reasoning does for me. lol Take notes, Nephthys .

THATS THE EXACT SAME THING I'VE BEEN SAYING YOU ILLITERATE DOGFVCKER.

Seems you guys are taking this thread as a toe to toe battle in an open field. From the OP:




Originally posted by Rogue Jedi




The Push crew are all banded together and have decided to take on the X Men mutants, who they view as a threat. The X Men mutants put their differences aside and team up to defeat the Push crew. The fight takes place all over the world, and both sides can use any and all resources to win. This is not necessarily a fight to the death, just to the win, incapacitation can achieve victory. Jean Grey is Jean Grey here, not Dark Phoenix. No Cerebro bullshit either.

The Push crew has decided to take on the X Men. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the X Men are initially unaware of the pending attack. Both sides have general knowledge of their enemy. Now.....Seeing as how Carver is not an idiot, he'll likely keep the attack a secret until it comes time to execute. There will be planning, there will be time to get organized, all that shit. Now.......During this time (could be days), the Watchers will see the future, will know where Xavier is, will know where all the X Men are. Now.......Division sends a sniper to snipe Xavier first and foremost. .50 caliber bullet from 500 yards out>>>>>Xavier.

Now....With Xavier out of the picture, it's a cakewalk. Kitty? Lulz, same. They see where she is, send in a stitch, have the stitch walk up to her as Kitty is being an emo *****, and lay a finger on her.





Question: In X2, let's say that Stryker's sole reason for raiding the X mansion was to kill Xavier. Now, if he had two Watchers and a kickass sniper, how easy would it have been for him to kill Xavier?

Answer: Beyond easy.





Seeing the future>>>>>Anything the X Men can bring.

In X2 the strongest X-men weren't even there.

Xavier or Jean would have sensed their presence before they even reached the mansion, just saying.

Oh well then this thread is much crappier than I thought.

Xavier flies around the world in the X-Jet putting everyone on the Push-side into coma's.

/thread.








He'd sense the sniper. Easily.



Cerebro.

Dark Pheonix.

I like how you have to take away the two greatest weapons from the X-verse, then give Push unlimited prep and have the X-verse completely unaware of the attack to have them stand a chance.

Yeah obviously this is a fair thread.

What utter horseshit.

Originally posted by Mindset
In X2 the strongest X-men weren't even there.

Xavier or Jean would have sensed their presence before they even reached the mansion, just saying.


Shadows: Shadows are trained to block the vision of other clairvoyants such as Sniffs, making any subject within their target radius appear "dark". Experience will enhance the size of the area they can shadow and the intensity of their shielding effect. Shadows need to be awake to manifest their ability, so it is common for a detail of two Shadows to operate in shifts while protecting a person or object for extended periods. Most Shadows are effective only against Sniffs, but some extremely powerful Shadows are able to block even Watchers.


Also, what I just said:

The Push crew has decided to take on the X Men. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the X Men are initially unaware of the pending attack. Both sides have general knowledge of their enemy. Now.....Seeing as how Carver is not an idiot, he'll likely keep the attack a secret until it comes time to execute. There will be planning, there will be time to get organized, all that shit. Now.......During this time (could be days), the Watchers will see the future, will know where Xavier is, will know where all the X Men are. Now.......Division sends a sniper to snipe Xavier first and foremost. .50 caliber bullet from 500 yards out>>>>>Xavier.

Xavier cannot see the future. None of them have precog. If a watcher sees where Xavier will be in 24 hours, the division sends a sniper to snipe his ass.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh well then this thread is much crappier than I thought.

Xavier flies around the world in the X-Jet putting everyone on the Push-side into coma's.

/thread.



How does he know to do so? He has no precog and cannot see the future.

The Push crew has decided to take on the X Men. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the X Men are initially unaware of the pending attack. Both sides have general knowledge of their enemy. Now.....Seeing as how Carver is not an idiot, he'll likely keep the attack a secret until it comes time to execute. There will be planning, there will be time to get organized, all that shit. Now.......During this time (could be days), the Watchers will see the future, will know where Xavier is, will know where all the X Men are. Now.......Division sends a sniper to snipe Xavier first and foremost. .50 caliber bullet from 500 yards out>>>>>Xavier.




No, he won't. He does not have precog.



Neither of which are in this thread.

K, then Cassies mom sees a decade into the future and the division kills all the X Men a decade prior.

Seeing the future>>>>>Cerebro and DP.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Shadows: Shadows are trained to block the vision of other clairvoyants such as Sniffs, making any subject within their target radius appear "dark". Experience will enhance the size of the area they can shadow and the intensity of their shielding effect. Shadows need to be awake to manifest their ability, so it is common for a detail of two Shadows to operate in shifts while protecting a person or object for extended periods. Most Shadows are effective only against Sniffs, but some extremely powerful Shadows are able to block even Watchers.


Also, what I just said:

The Push crew has decided to take on the X Men. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the X Men are initially unaware of the pending attack. Both sides have general knowledge of their enemy. Now.....Seeing as how Carver is not an idiot, he'll likely keep the attack a secret until it comes time to execute. There will be planning, there will be time to get organized, all that shit. Now.......During this time (could be days), the Watchers will see the future, will know where Xavier is, will know where all the X Men are. Now.......Division sends a sniper to snipe Xavier first and foremost. .50 caliber bullet from 500 yards out>>>>>Xavier.

Xavier cannot see the future. None of them have precog. If a watcher sees where Xavier will be in 24 hours, the division sends a sniper to snipe his ass. I'm not sure 500 yards puts him at of Xavier's range to sense...

Originally posted by Mindset
I'm not sure 500 yards puts him at of Xavier's range to sense... Sense what? He's unaware of the pending attack. You saying Xavier has precog? Fail.

He doesn't need it. He senses the attack and stops it, then he wheels himself down to Cerebro The X-Jet and wipes out all opposition.



He can sense Pheonix half a continet away but he can't sense a sniper 500 feet away? Yeah, no.



I'm sorry I can't hear you over the gimping.



So they get to kill the X-men a decade in the past.

The thread is so ****ing awesome.



No, unlimited prep time >>>>>> Cerebro and DP.


I seem to recall you initially wanted this to be just the X-men as well. Have you even heard of the word bias?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Sense what? He's unaware of the pending attack. You saying Xavier has precog? Fail. Sense people thinking.

Which I'm not sensing right now...where in that statement did I say anything about precog? Fail indeed.

Your original post didn't say anything about Shadows, are you adding them in now?

Also not sure about the accuracy of a 50cal round traveling 500 yards and through multiple walls(?) to hit a human sized target.

So they snipe Xavier... Big deal. There are still many other mutants out there such as Magneto who can move the ****in golden gate bridge! Hell Xavier could just place his mind in some guy with a coma.

besides all magneto will do anyway is take away all of their guns the same way he did onscreen

I'm thinking of making a more balanced version of this thread. You guys game?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, I understood your joke. It was hilarious and oh so witty.

I know it was...but you didn't seem to have the capacity to understand what was actually taking place.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What I didn't understand was how it had any relevence to what I said.

What you don't understand is how your original reply to what I said had any relevance to what I said.

I said:

"You don't see how seeing the future will help? Time is 'perception' of events."

To which you said:

"Seeing someone doesn't mean shit when there is literally no way to affect them."

Because you were being deliberately dense because you were in rage mode, you didn't see how being able to see into the future when you have an entire army to take out the mutants, gave an advantage, at all. You made it seem as though one person seeing into the future had no way to affect another person from the other side when AN ENTIRE ****ING ARMY is there to go to down based on those future visions: something the other side does not have.

You played ignorant, again, on purpose, pretending as though a single watcher is all there is to it and they cannot do anything to the professor, at all, despite the fact that THEY WILL HAVE THE DROP ON THE PROFESSOR AND THERE IS NOTHING HE CAN DO ABOUT IT.

Is that clear enough for you? Actually, it's not. You still will pretend not to get it.




Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't say that there was only one person on the field. I didn't even insinuate that. What I said was that due to intangibility, them having clairvoyance doesn't matter because even if they can see the future they cannot affect it whatsoever.

Seeing the future means they can't affect it, huh? Obviously, you didn't watch the same film I did. You literally have no clue what you're talking about. Kindly GTFO out of this thread until you've seen the movie. Once you have, you may be a tad (not likely) more rational.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm..... honestly struggling to see how you could be confused on that point,

Don't struggle too hard because the reason is obvious: I'm not the one confused.

Originally posted by Nephthys
which is why I was asking whether you were 'mentally impaired' in some way or just trolling me.

Yeah, I'm mentally impaired when you're the one that lacked understanding and I'm the one trolling you when YOU HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN THE DAMN MOVIE and are clueless to the powers of the other side.

Originally posted by Nephthys
To be frank, I'm still not sure you're not.

To be frank, you're definitely an internet rager, you troll the shit out of people when they disagree with you, and you are extremely biased and cannot see reason.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Which goes back to my first question: Even if they had prep time, how would they deal with intangibility?

The answer to that question is horribly obvious. If you had even the slightest clue as to what the Push side was bringing...

Originally posted by Nephthys
How does clairvoyance negate that in any way?

Other than being able to get the drop on Xavier before Kitty touches him...there's one glaringly obvious reason why pseudo-intangibility is not a way to avoid death.



Originally posted by Nephthys
'Time - Kitty has to move from point A to point B, touch the professor, and activate her powers.

Future events being "present" with a Watcher: That event is seen and prevented.'

How will they 'prevent' her from walking over and touching him during prep time? Your argument makes no sense, again causing me to question your state of mind.

How will they not prevent her? The answer to this question is very very basic. If you knew what the other side was bringing, you'd know the answer instead of trolling the thread.

Go to the OP, read about the powers, and then shit yourself with enlightenment. It should click as to how they would prevent Kitty from touching the professor before they kill her and the professor.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Movers can't move her, Xavier mentally shitstomps the Pushers and the Wipers, Bleeders can't bleed her, Stitchers can't touch her and of course they can't be shot. Nothing will be able to stop them at all.

HA! You're wrong.



Originally posted by Nephthys
No, see above.

No, see the item you posted that to.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Well what the hell did you mean about them having a 'jump' on the muties? The **** does that even mean?

Is English not your first language?




Originally posted by Nephthys
THATS THE EXACT SAME THING I'VE BEEN SAYING YOU ILLITERATE DOGFVCKER.


I was joking.

Still, the young did a far better job of NOT raging than you did and that's the lesson you needed to learn. You go from normal to raging in just a couple of posts in just about every thread in the MVF that you participate in. Let's also not forget the little troll posts you drop while in "normal" mode.




Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm thinking of making a more balanced version of this thread. You guys game?

I am. Fo sho.

Obviously the sheer RAAAAGE just overcame me.



Wow, learn to type less confusingly please.



As I mentioned, against an intangible Xavier an entire army is useless.



Oh god, don't tell me you've been listening to RJ's bullshit. Sorry to dissapoint you but Rj has once again failed to make a spite thread properly. It's right there in the OP:


'The Push crew are all banded together and have decided to take on the X Men mutants, who they view as a threat. The X Men mutants put their differences aside and team up to defeat the Push crew.'

The mutants are aware of the attack as per the OP as they would need to be to be able to team up against the threat.

This seems to be the main thing causing this argument, as you think the Push team will be able to catch Xavier completely by surprise and I do not.



I have seen the movie.

Kindly be a bit more polite in your responses.



Again, I have seen the movie and calm down. Maybe you should go see someone about that rage.



To be frank, I think you've been spending too much time in that obnoxious internet troll thread, lol.



Ooooooh scary! Care to refresh my memory mister internet man?



How? The fight takes place all over the world. Kitty is in his school. Which do you think's going to get to Xavier faster?



And are you going to share it with the rest of the class....?



Or you could just take the 30 seconds to just freakin' tell me.



http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/cool-story-bro-500x499.jpg



Yes, but my retardese is a little rusty, so you'll have to speak more clearly.



Oh cool. See, this is the thing I'm talking about. More cleary please.



Anyone else?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Obviously the sheer RAAAAGE just overcame me.

I know, man. Smoke a bowl or something.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Wow, learn to type less confusingly please.

No comment.



Originally posted by Nephthys
As I mentioned, against an intangible Xavier an entire army is useless.

Incorrect.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh god, don't tell me you've been listening to RJ's bullshit. Sorry to dissapoint you but Rj has once again failed to make a spite thread properly.

I don't think it's a spite thread but he DID gimp both sides which I didn't like. No prep-time? That nulled THE best asset that Push peeps had going for them: seeing the future. No cerebro? That nulled Xaviers ability to kill all but the Shadows and the people they are guarding.

Originally posted by Nephthys
'The Push crew are all banded together and have decided to take on the X Men mutants, who they view as a threat. The X Men mutants put their differences aside and team up to defeat the Push crew.'

The mutants are aware of the attack as per the OP as they would need to be to be able to team up against the threat.

This seems to be the main thing causing this argument, as you think the Push team will be able to catch Xavier completely by surprise and I do not.

Wrong. I think the Push peeps DIE in this thread. I was only commenting on a hypothetical thread in which there is prep time.



Originally posted by Nephthys
I have seen the movie.

Kindly be a bit more polite in your responses.

Fair.

I was responding "in kind", btw.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Again, I have seen the movie and calm down. Maybe you should go see someone about that rage.

Oh, so I'm supposed to "calm down" when I'm parodying your posting style?

Wait, I think you're making a joke and it went over my head until just now (I'm not joking, now.)





Originally posted by Nephthys
To be frank, I think you've been spending too much time in that obnoxious internet troll thread, lol.

Wah?

To be Frank, it's only a paper moon so come fly with me.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Ooooooh scary! Care to refresh my memory mister internet man?

Nah. I'd rather keep it to myself. I prefer that someone else point it out. I DID tell RJ about it, however, in private and he knows exactly what I'm talking about. I honestly think you know, too.



Originally posted by Nephthys
How? The fight takes place all over the world. Kitty is in his school. Which do you think's going to get to Xavier faster?

First, not in this thread, but in the hypothetical thread in which prep-time occurs.

Second, I honestly think the mutants win because the Watchers are pretty damn useless. They aren't like Alice from Twilight...being able to see microseconds into the future and reacting like a Jedi. They are useless meatbags in this thread.


Originally posted by Nephthys
And are you going to share it with the rest of the class....?

No. I think it's obvious and you're just playing around because you're bored or something.




Originally posted by Nephthys
Or you could just take the 30 seconds to just freakin' tell me.

Calm down. See above.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, but my retardese is a little rusty, so you'll have to speak more clearly.

"Is English not your first language" and you answered "yes" which means English is not your first language. Are you aware of that? Did you intend to answer the question in that manner? I was going to be nice and cut you some slack if English was not your first language but since you raged on me, even more, I am not very willing to help you understand.

It's probably because you called me an illiterate dogf*cker...not quite sure or indirectly referred to my "language" as "retardese."


Oh well, I forgive you.


Enjoy your answer:

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/get+a+jump+on


Do you want to know why I put "jump" in quotes, originally? It was to avoid the confusion between "Jumpers" from "Jump" and the English Language idiom. Yet, you someone reacted in the exact opposite manner.


You even hinted at knowing exactly what I meant when you said the following:

"Well what the hell did you mean about them having a 'jump' on the muties?"

Its as if you knew exactly what I was talking about but pretended not to. Now do you see why I don't think you're genuinely ignorant of my meaning but, instead, trolling?



Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh cool. See, this is the thing I'm talking about. More cleary please.

If I'm denied the right to make "witty" comments with adults, then what's the point of coming here? I could just create a comic book and movie club and argue with teenagers. I'm all about breaking balls and getting a laugh out of it...the wittier, the better.


Also, Neph, I still love you.

Originally posted by dadudemon


I was saying that WITH prep, they win 10 out of 10 times.


Yea I know, and I'm saying even with prep, they won't win.

Originally posted by dadudemon

And, did you watch Push? I've seen both Push and all the X-men movies. I think it's rather close-minded and bias to think that the Muties have a chance IF the Push peeps are given prep.


Yep, I've watched Push and I was impressed with them. About 16 (i think thats what someone said) Push mutants (+ the human agency) vs all X-men mutants? They are outnumbered and outclassed in every way. Seeing the future is not an automatic win. If you could see the future DDM, and I sent Shadow Cat after you (or a heavily protected Professor X, or any mutant really), you'd still die no matter what prep you made. Even with the Asian precog, she doesn't see every specific detail, just visions of a small duration.

Originally posted by dadudemon


Why haven't you made actual good arguments, though?

Such as: Clairvoyance is not telepathy.


Um the part where I said "you pulled it out of your bum" was pretty much referring to this. Also the Shadow guy is no assassin, he ain't doing jack crap.


Originally posted by dadudemon

Jean has been gimped because she cannot use her full powers.


I'm okay with that though, cause this would be a spite thread if she did have all her powers.

Originally posted by dadudemon

The only thing I've read in this thread is whining/complaining/bitching/trolling about what one side can do or cannot do.

Not really. There have been a few ways shown how the X-men can't be stopped, and there have been no responses to them, only things like "they can see the future man!!!1".

Basically, Team Push has no winning method, even with prep. I'd like to see how you would script it though. But short of something ridiculous like dropping a nuke on the X-men (even then Shadow cat finishes the job), they can't win. X-men will find them no matter what, and they can't do anything to stop them from killing them, even with some precog.

Originally posted by Placidity
Yep, I've watched Push and I was impressed with them. About 16 (i think thats what someone said) Push mutants (+ the human agency) vs all X-men mutants? They are outnumbered and outclassed in every way. Seeing the future is not an automatic win. If you could see the future DDM, and I sent Shadow Cat after you (or a heavily protected Professor X, or any mutant really), you'd still die no matter what prep you made. Even with the Asian precog, she doesn't see every specific detail, just visions of a small duration.

RJ is stating that there are much more Push muties than Marvel Muties...even when I brought up the field at the Alcatraz having what looks like hundreds of mutants, he still contends that there are more Push muties. I disagreed but, granted, I've seen the movie once. There could be some obscure line said by one the characters that makes you and I wrong.



Originally posted by Placidity
Um the part where I said "you pulled it out of your bum" was pretty much referring to this. Also the Shadow guy is no assassin, he ain't doing jack crap.

There are "far seers" and "clairvoyants" in push. There's not just Clairvoyants. There's also people that have a gift akin to Demetri's: they can sniff out a person from anywhere in the world.

The Shadow types are not for assasinating, though: they are for making people "dark" to those with mind powers.




Originally posted by Placidity
I'm okay with that though, cause this would be a spite thread if she did have all her powers.

I disagree. She's still very much a "meat bag" just a very powerful meatbag.

Originally posted by Placidity
Not really. There have been a few ways shown how the X-men can't be stopped, and there have been no responses to them, only things like "they can see the future man!!!1".

I disagree, obviously. I think the RJ hate runs much too deep in the MVF to actually ever have any sort of normal conversation with him.

Originally posted by Placidity
Basically, Team Push has no winning method, even with prep. I'd like to see how you would script it though. But short of something ridiculous like dropping a nuke on the X-men (even then Shadow cat finishes the job), they can't win. X-men will find them no matter what, and they can't do anything to stop them from killing them, even with some precog.

I may script it for you, in PMs. I really don't like the attitudes of multiple people in this thread and they are definitely not deserving of any real discussion.

Originally posted by dadudemon






I don't think it's a spite thread but he DID gimp both sides which I didn't like. No prep-time? That nulled THE best asset that Push peeps had going for them: seeing the future. No cerebro? That nulled Xaviers ability to kill all but the Shadows and the people they are guarding.



When did I say no prep time? It's literally impossible to have future seers on any team and not have them having prep time. If someone can see even 20 minutes in to the future, that's prep time.

Cassie's mom was capable of seeing a decade into the future. Just saying.

Originally posted by dadudemon
RJ is stating that there are much more Push muties than Marvel Muties...even when I brought up the field at the Alcatraz having what looks like hundreds of mutants, he still contends that there are more Push muties. I disagreed but, granted, I've seen the movie once. There could be some obscure line said by one the characters that makes you and I wrong.

I most certainly did not. I said that the Push crew had far more resources, and far more members. Only some of them were mutants, most of the division/triad are humans.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
When did I say no prep time? It's literally impossible to have future seers on any team and not have them having prep time. If someone can see even 20 minutes in to the future, that's prep time.

Cassie's mom was capable of seeing a decade into the future. Just saying.

The part where you didn't say, "prep" or "preparation" at any point in your post.

You didn't even allude to "prep" time. The fight starts with them trying to kill each other. Sure, they can get together and start planning, but that's not the same as prep time which prevents one side from attacking another.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I most certainly did not. I said that the Push crew had far more resources, and far more members. Only some of them were mutants, most of the division/triad are humans.

Suck my balls.

Originally posted by dadudemon
RJ is stating that there are much more Push muties than Marvel Muties...even when I brought up the field at the Alcatraz having what looks like hundreds of mutants, he still contends that there are more Push muties. I disagreed but, granted, I've seen the movie once. There could be some obscure line said by one the characters that makes you and I wrong.


Ok, now he says there isn't. So Push mutants are way outnumbered.

Originally posted by dadudemon

There are "far seers" and "clairvoyants" in push. There's not just Clairvoyants. There's also people that have a gift akin to Demetri's: they can sniff out a person from anywhere in the world.

The Shadow types are not for assasinating, though: they are for making people "dark" to those with mind powers.


They block sniffers and watchers specifically. They aren't blocking anything else (they can't even block their own Pushers), especially not someone like Xavier. They are irrelevant.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I disagree. She's still very much a "meat bag" just a very powerful meatbag.

Are we talking about Dark Phoenix here? Cause she soloes.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I may script it for you, in PMs. I really don't like the attitudes of multiple people in this thread and they are definitely not deserving of any real discussion.

Hmm, I don't really do PM debates, whats the point?

Originally posted by Placidity
Ok, now he says there isn't. So Push mutants are way outnumbered.

I agree, but he's saying that they have all sorts of resources like the chinese mafia and governments. If that's the case, they destroy the mansion with a missile from hundreds of miles away.

Originally posted by Placidity
They block sniffers and watchers specifically. They aren't blocking anything else (they can't even block their own Pushers), especially not someone like Xavier. They are irrelevant.

They block all mind-to-mind powers for the purposes of versus matches. If you say differently, I say, "you can't prove your way and I can't prove my way." However, without trying to gimp one side over the other, they make people invisible to those with mind powers (not to be confused with TK.) That means they will be invisible to Xavier and people like that. If you say that they don't, then I say that they do. It's an endless and futile discussion. How about we avoid it and not gimp one side in favor of the other as we see fit? I'm not removing anything from either side. The shadows get to keep their abilities in this thread.

Originally posted by Placidity
Are we talking about Dark Phoenix here? Cause she soloes.

I don't see how. One bullet from a mile out ends any meatbag, including Xavier sans Cerebro.

Originally posted by Placidity
Hmm, I don't really do PM debates, whats the point?

It's definitely not a debate. You wanted me to script, so I told you how I would script. I had no interest in debating it.

But, to actually answer you question, the point would be discussing the thread. I don't need an audience to have a discussion: I'm not that egotistical. Additionally, I don't need an audience for debates, either.

Originally posted by dadudemon

They block all mind-to-mind powers for the purposes of versus matches. If you say differently, I say, "you can't prove your way and I can't prove my way." However, without trying to gimp one side over the other, they make people invisible to those with mind powers (not to be confused with TK.) That means they will be invisible to Xavier and people like that. If you say that they don't, then I say that they do. It's an endless and futile discussion. How about we avoid it and not gimp one side in favor of the other as we see fit? I'm not removing anything from either side. The shadows get to keep their abilities in this thread.


Where is it said they block all mind-to-mind powers? They block Sniffers and Watchers. If you have any evidence that they can block anything other than specifically those two types of powers, then present it now.

You also ignored my point about how they can't block Pushers.

I'm not gimping anything, you're trying to add powers to them that they don't have.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I don't see how. One bullet from a mile out ends any meatbag, including Xavier sans Cerebro.


She was already shot at by a group of men. She killed all of them and leveled the island. I don't know if you remember that part.

Originally posted by Placidity
Where is it said they block all mind-to-mind powers?

Where is it said that Xavier can see into the shroud a Shadow creates?

Originally posted by Placidity
They block Sniffers and Watchers. If you have any evidence that they can block anything other than specifically those two types of powers, then present it now.

If you have any evidence that Xavier can see into the shroud created by the Shadows, present it now.

Originally posted by Placidity
You also ignored my point about how they can't block Pushers.

I did not. It was irrelevent. TK != telepathy, clairvoyance, or farseeing.

Originally posted by Placidity
I'm not gimping anything, you're trying to add powers to them that they don't have.

I'm not adding powers that they don't have, you're trying to take them away.






By your logic, here's what we can do:

The force doesn't work in any versus match unless it takes place inside of the Galaxy the force users are from.

No HP magic works in any universe unless the fight takes place in the HP universe.

Xaviers powers don't work in other universes that don't have psionics.

Shadows cannot block Xavier from seeing them because they are from different universes and Xavier's power work in both universes but the Shadows only can block "mind" muties from seeing them ONLY in their own universe.



If you want to argue that the Shadows are blocking something other than Psionics, be my guest: it's a very futile conversation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psionics


Originally posted by Placidity
She was already shot at by a group of men. She killed all of them and leveled the island. I don't know if you remember that part.

That is not addressing this:

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't see how. One bullet from a mile out ends any meatbag, including Xavier sans Cerebro.

Just who are the Pushers going to send anyway if they manage to get to the X-mansion. They would need to hope they are standing right in windows like idiots while and not get deeper inside the mansion or use the escape tunnels. So who would they send inside?

Shadow's have never blocked anything even close to as powerful as Xavier. Saying that they can is a fallacy.



No, lol. Xaviers and Pheonix's telepathy extends about half a continent. They'll be able to sense a sniper, easily. If it was that easy Mags could have done it years ago.



Is the Force TK? Is pyrokinesis magic?

It's up to you to prove that they're the same thing. We don't just assume on this forum. By RJ's own words most Shadows can just stop Sniffs. Xavier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sniffs.


I'm not going to bother replying to the other argument we were having btw. You more or less conceeded anway so alls thats left is bullshit macho posturing. Yawn.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I did not. It was irrelevent. TK != telepathy, clairvoyance, or farseeing.


Good thing Xavier doesn't use TK but uses telepathy... Considering the fact that Shadows can't stop Pushers' TP, I don't see how they will stop Xavier's TP which is far more impressive than Pushers'.

By the way, this:

'To be Frank, it's only a paper moon so come fly with me.'

Is hilarious. Brilliant.

Originally posted by ares834
Good thing Xavier doesn't use TK but uses telepathy...

I agree, which was exactly my point.

He said that the Pushers can't be blocked by the Shadows to prove that the Shadows couldn't block...TK...which was irrelevant to our discussion as we already knew that (he was actually making another point.)

Originally posted by ares834
Considering the fact that Shadows can't stop Pushers' TP, I don't see how they will stop Xavier's TP which is far more impressive than Pushers'.

Pushers have TK, not TP. I don't know what TP is. Xavier has Telepathy.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Pushers have TK, not TP. I don't know what TP is. Xavier has Telepathy.

TP=Telepathy.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Pushers: Pushers have the ability to implant memories, thoughts and emotions into the minds of other people in order to manipulate them. The skill level of the Pusher determines how many people the Pusher is able to control at one time, and how vivid the implanted memories are. A powerful Pusher can push a large group of people at the same time, basically creating a personal army. A Pusher is able to make a person do anything the Pusher desires, even commit suicide. A Pusher's eyes indicate how powerful they are: their pupils will dilate to certain degrees depending on how powerful the push is (for example, Henry Carver's eyes are rendered completely black, signifying that he is an extremely able and effective Pusher).

That is not TK (i'm assuming TK=telekinesis), but is telepathy. Movers, however, use TK.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Shadow's have never blocked anything even close to as powerful as Xavier. Saying that they can is a fallacy.

There's a limit to how much "Psionic" detection the shield can handle (As fact, it just looks like they are trained to block, and the limit is the "area" of the shield and how long they can keep it up (the good ones can keep it up as long as they are awake). Violating the "no limits" fallacy would involve saying that they can block out everyone as far out as they want when they explicitly cannot block out unlimited area: it's kept to a certain area and the more training and experience they have, they can extend their "black hole" even farther)? Where is this shield "bombardment" limit and where did you find it? Additionally, how did you discover that a "limit" was even applicable to the shroud? It's like saying you "see" a black hole in the visible light spectrum if you get a bigger telescope: it's still completely missing. Granted, you can see a blackhole by observing the things around it which is what happened in the film: pretty cool tie-in, I think. *Adjusts belt buckle*

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, lol. Xaviers and Pheonix's telepathy extends about half a continent. They'll be able to sense a sniper, easily. If it was that easy Mags could have done it years ago.

Do you have a movie feat for that because it appears to be a few hundred yards in the films. Again, this thread is gimped, no cerebro.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Is the Force TK? Is pyrokinesis magic?

What? You didn't know? The Force, in the real world, is considered fictional psionics." You didn't know that?

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's up to you to prove that they're the same thing.

No, it's up to you to prove that he can see through the shroud because that's what your claiming.


Originally posted by Nephthys
We don't just assume on this forum.

So stop: the shroud stays as a shroud: don't assume that Xavier sees through it.



Originally posted by Nephthys
By RJ's own words most Shadows can just stop Sniffs. Xavier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sniffs.

No, Shadows can stop Sniffs and even more powerful/trained ones can stop Watchers.



Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not going to bother replying to the other argument we were having btw. You more or less conceeded anway so alls thats left is bullshit macho posturing. Yawn.

That's a good thing because we both know my balls are much... smoother.

Originally posted by ares834
TP=Telepathy.



That is not TK (i'm assuming TK=telekinesis), but is telepathy. Movers, however, use TK.

AHA! I figured that's what you meant but I wasn't sure. Telepathy is one word, but I have also been known to make initialisms, incorrectly, like that, so I don't think you did anything wrong.


Originally posted by McNasty996
Just who are the Pushers going to send anyway if they manage to get to the X-mansion. They would need to hope they are standing right in windows like idiots while and not get deeper inside the mansion or use the escape tunnels. So who would they send inside?

I wanna reply to this soooo bad...but I don't want to show my bewbeez just yet.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Where is it said that Xavier can see into the shroud a Shadow creates?



If you have any evidence that Xavier can see into the shroud created by the Shadows, present it now.


You know thats pathetic right?

What shroud? There is no shroud. They can only block sniffers and watchers, period.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I did not. It was irrelevent. TK != telepathy, clairvoyance, or farseeing.


What the shit are you on about, I've never mentioned TK.

I take it you have no response.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I'm not adding powers that they don't have, you're trying to take them away.


Powers you are yet to prove, which you won't.

Originally posted by dadudemon
By your logic, here's what we can do:

The force doesn't work in any versus match unless it takes place inside of the Galaxy the force users are from.

No HP magic works in any universe unless the fight takes place in the HP universe.

Xaviers powers don't work in other universes that don't have psionics.

Shadows cannot block Xavier from seeing them because they are from different universes and Xavier's power work in both universes but the Shadows only can block "mind" muties from seeing them ONLY in their own universe.


What a load of shit. Shadows have never blocked telepathy, let alone someone on Xavier's level (lets just pretend all telepathy is the same, oh wait they're not) so stop doing the strawman dance.

Shadows can't block telepathy. They can only block sniffers and watchers specifically which are not telepaths, as stated in the film. They can't block Pushers, who are telepaths. The end.

Originally posted by dadudemon

That is not addressing this:

Um, you said Dark Phoenix was just a "meatbag" who can be killed by a sniper, I proved she wasn't, then you and talk about Professor X???

No, a no-limits fallacy would be to assume that it can block anything within its given area, even if God tried to pierce it. It's not a black hole, its a shadow, a shroud. Shadows can be illuminated, shrouds can be pierced.

Assuming that its unbrakable is a fallacy. Xavier is much more powerful than anything a Shadow has blocked, therefore you can't prove that they'd be able to block him.



Xavier senses Pheonix from the school when she awakens at the lake. Pheonix talks to Cyclops telepathically to get him to come to the lake.



Only in a crude sense. The basic function is different.



Xavier is more powerful than anything the Shadows have blocked.

2 > 1. Simple really.



Thats what I said. And its been a while, but I think ares is right. Shadows can't stop a Pusher's telepathy. Therefore, why do you think they'd be able to stop Xaviers?

Originally posted by Nephthys

Thats what I said. And its been a while, but I think ares is right. Shadows can't stop a Pusher's telepathy. Therefore, why do you think they'd be able to stop Xaviers?

They can't. All he'll do is ask you to prove that Xavier can see through the shroud lol. Blatant debating fallacy, and shameless.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, a no-limits fallacy would be to assume that it can block anything within its given area, even if God tried to pierce it. It's not a black hole, its a shadow, a shroud. Shadows can be illuminated, shrouds can be pierced.

No, what I said.

In this case, it's you assuming that a "black hole" can magically produce "light" if you look at it with a more intense "telescope."

There is another version of the "limits" fallacy that I've talked about before and that's applying an inappropriate limit to something.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Assuming that its unbrakable is a fallacy. Xavier is much more powerful than anything a Shadow has blocked, therefore you can't prove that they'd be able to block him.

Assuming that it can magically produce a "signal" when it's "black" is a fallacy. It's an apples to oranges comparison on your part.

Additionally, you still don't get it because you assume that a more intense "eye" is going to get information directly from a "black hole."


Originally posted by Nephthys
Xavier senses Pheonix from the school when she awakens at the lake. Pheonix talks to Cyclops telepathically to get him to come to the lake.

I thought my point was obvious because of me mentioning cerebro, but I'll rephrase to be nice because you're being nice:

Do you have a feat of "mind-raping" someone in a psionic shroud half-a continent away outside of cerebro?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Only in a crude sense. The basic function is different.

If this is the best I can get out of you, I'll take it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Xavier is more powerful than anything the Shadows have blocked.

2 > 1. Simple really.

Here's this: the powerful shadows block out all sniffers and watchers, combined. Is the professor greater than all of those combined? Do you have an "intensity" level of psionic "pressure" he can exert on the shroud (which is not a trait of the Shrouds they create in the film, btw.) On top of that, do you know how many sniffers and watchers there are in the film and how much psionic pressure they collectively exert on the shroud (again, there's no such trait in the film. It has to be invented in order to even have this discussion with you and others)?

After you've quantified those into exact measures, let me know which is greater. (I promise to not be a douche: I'll give you a leeway of 100 psi units. I am not aware of an psi unit measures from Marvel so you'll have to forgive my ignorance here, if there already exists an official one that I'm not aware of...yes...that means I'll accept a comic book answer.)




Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats what I said. And its been a while, but I think ares is right. Shadows can't stop a Pusher's telepathy. Therefore, why do you think they'd be able to stop Xaviers?

Show me Xavier's telepathy and I'll concede this point, as well.




See, you can get me convinced of two points: I'm not COMPLETELY hard headed.



Originally posted by Placidity
They can't. All he'll do is ask you to prove that Xavier can see through the shroud lol. Blatant debating fallacy, and shameless.

I know, right? It's rather fallicious to claim that Xavier can see the shroud when we aren't even sure if the mechanisms work the same or if the shroud even works in a manner that it can be "over-powered" because it acts more like a black hole than it does Enterprise D's shields.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I know, right? It's rather fallicious to claim that Xavier can see the shroud when we aren't even sure if the mechanisms work the same or if the shroud even works in a manner that it can be "over-powered" because it acts more like a black hole than it does Enterprise D's shields.



1. Its stated they can only block sniffers/watchers.
2. They can't block pushers (telepaths).

Stop talking about Xavier and prove that Shadows can block telepathy.

When you have proven this ability exists, then we'll talk about whether Xavier can overcome it or not. Of course you won't since you have zero evidence for your claims, which are made up.

Do it or concede.

Originally posted by Placidity
You know thats pathetic right?

What shroud? There is no shroud. They can only block sniffers and watchers, period.

Yes there is. And, not that's not true: they can block anyone that tries to see them while they are being protected with the Shadow's shroud in any thread unless the thread starter wants to remove the ability.



Originally posted by Placidity
What the shit are you on about, I've never mentioned TK.

I take it you have no response.

That's because I confused the label "pusher" for the "movers".


Originally posted by Placidity
Powers you are yet to prove, which you won't.

Powers that Xavier is supposed to have that you have yet to prove: when was he ever seen looking through the shroud of a Shadow?

We have an example of one and it was in the form of a Helmet on Magneto's head: it seemed to work just fine for Magneto. You gonna call him out and say: "MAGNETO! YOU BASTARD! THAT'S A NO LIMITS FALLACY ASS! TAKE THAT SHIT OFFFFFFF!"

Originally posted by Placidity
What a load of shit. Shadows have never blocked telepathy, let alone someone on Xavier's level (lets just pretend all telepathy is the same, oh wait they're not) so stop doing the strawman dance.

Funny you say that because I think it's a gigantic load of shit to think that professor can look through the shroud that specifically there to block people from "looking at them."

Originally posted by Placidity
Shadows can't block telepathy. They can only block sniffers and watchers specifically which are not telepaths, as stated in the film. They can't block Pushers, who are telepaths. The end.


Pushers inject information into a "seen" subject. If they can see the subject, it kind of defeats the point of a Shadow, now doesn't it? Additionally, what Xavier would be doing is retrieving information on an object that will not exist for his "remote viewing" purposes.



Originally posted by Placidity
Um, you said Dark Phoenix was just a "meatbag" who can be killed by a sniper, I proved she wasn't, then you and talk about Professor X???

I know it's difficult with multiple conversation threads going on so I'll make it so you can understand what happened:


You said:

Originally posted by Placidity
Are we talking about Dark Phoenix here? Cause she soloes.

To which I replied:

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't see how. One bullet from a mile out ends any meatbag, including Xavier sans Cerebro.

To which you replied:

Originally posted by Placidity
She was already shot at by a group of men. She killed all of them and leveled the island. I don't know if you remember that part.

To which I replied:

Originally posted by dadudemon
That is not addressing this:

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't see how. One bullet from a mile out ends any meatbag, including Xavier sans Cerebro.

The distance between the "facility" and Jean is, at best, 100 yards.

Do you see why your reply to what I said was out of place?



Let's recap:

You say Xavier sees into the Shroud of the Shadows with his remote viewing abilities, I say that directly contradicts what we see the Shadows being able to block. You say that it's a logical fallacy that the Shadows can block someone as powerful as Xavier, I say it's a logical fallacy because increasing the "size" of your "telescope" is not going to magically light up a black hole.



That's it.


There's really no need to discuss anything else.


If you have something new to bring to the table, I'm all "ears."

Originally posted by Placidity
1. Its stated they can only block sniffers/watchers.
2. They can't block pushers (telepaths).

Stop talking about Xavier and prove that Shadows can block telepathy.

Remote viewing = telepathy. End of discussion. Thanks for playing.

Originally posted by Placidity
When you have proven this ability exists, then we'll talk about whether Xavier can overcome it or not. Of course you won't since you have zero evidence for your claims, which are made up.

Do it or concede.

So you need to concede, now, right? If that's the whole basis of your argument, you need to concede.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Remote viewing = telepathy. End of discussion. Thanks for playing.

You're really lame.

Thats how you play it when you lose huh? Can't explain your way out of shadows not being able to block pushers? "Remote viewing" = telepathy?" So desperate.

Last time I even bother with you. Its sad.

Originally posted by Placidity
You're really lame.

Thats how you play it when you lose huh?


You can't keep from turning into a troll very long, can you?


I won't report you, though cause I love you too much.


Please show me where remote viewing is not telepathy.

"Remote viewing (RV) is a fancy name for telepathy or clairvoyance, the alleged psychic ability to perceive places, persons, and actions that are not within the range of the senses. "

http://www.skepdic.com/remotevw.html


What I see is you knowing your defeat so you resort to insults because actually taking 3 seconds to look up "remote-viewing" would reveal what I said to very true. I didn't even need to prove that to you because you already knew it. Why would you even take us down that path? Were you hoping for one of those famous ignorant moments like I had earlier when I confused the labels "push" and "mover"?


Originally posted by Placidity
Can't explain your way out of shadows not being able to block pushers? "Remote viewing" = telepathy?" So desperate.

Last time I even bother with you. Its sad.

I nicely smacked down that notion of yours:

"Pushers inject information into a "seen" subject. If they can see the subject, it kind of defeats the point of a Shadow, now doesn't it? Additionally, what Xavier would be doing is retrieving information on an object that will not exist for his "remote viewing" purposes."

So you can't pretend that I didn't address it.

Originally posted by dadudemon

So you can't pretend that I didn't address it.

Pretend you aren't ignoring the fact that shadows can't block pushers, actual telepaths (not your other bullshit you made up), but can somehow block Xavier.


Fcking troll. Ignore-listed.

Originally posted by Placidity
Pretend you aren't ignoring the fact that shadows can't block pushers, actual telepaths (not your other bullshit you made up), but can somehow block Xavier.


Fcking troll. Ignore-listed.

Yeah, I addressed that in the most direct way possible and you are still ignoring it...


Yet, I'm trolling you when you:

1. Have called me names.
2. Called my arguments all sorts of names which included "bullshit."
3. Claimed that I ignored things you stated when I had directly addressed them.
4. Were proven wrong in the most direct way possible.

Seems you're the obvious troll.


About point #4:

You said:

"Stop talking about Xavier and prove that Shadows can block telepathy.

When you have proven this ability exists, then we'll talk about whether Xavier can overcome it or not. Of course you won't since you have zero evidence for your claims, which are made up.

Do it or concede."

The tone of that is rather short, to begin with, but I did what you asked.

I not only proved that remote viewing is telepathy, it was an apples to apples comparison as the visions of the Sniffers are "remote viewing." Remote viewing...nulled. Professor remote viewing the Shadows? Nulled.

I proved it and you hate that you're wrong: I'm wrong about lots of things. It's not that bad to be wrong, man. Don't take this stuff so seriously. I'm not out on a personal vendetta against you or anything: we can have arguments and leave the thread and be amicable. The arguments should stay here.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The part where you didn't say, "prep" or "preparation" at any point in your post.

You didn't even allude to "prep" time. The fight starts with them trying to kill each other. Sure, they can get together and start planning, but that's not the same as prep time which prevents one side from attacking another.



Suck my balls. ZOMG I WIN THE INTERNETZ!!!!!



RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
ZOMG I WIN THE INTERNETZ!!!!!



RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!!!!!!!!!



Alright, settle down, settle down. I can't win them all, right?

Originally posted by dadudemon


Alright, settle down, settle down. I can't win them all, right? HULK SMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASH!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
HULK SMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASH!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!


no its RULK SMASH RULK SMASH

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv341/jedibeastie2/972372_f520b.jpg

Swooooooooooon!

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv341/jedibeastie2/972372_f520b.jpg

color him red please

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
color him red please HULK IS GREEN!!! HULK SMASH BRUCE SKYWALKER!!!!!