Mifune vs Kakashi

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Samurai100
Mifune (Soul Eater)
vs
Kakashi (Naruto)

Kakashi has full knowledge
Mifune has no knowledge
Mifune believes Kakashi to be a threat to Angela


Location: The area where Mifune first fought with Blackstar

Q99
I don't think Soul Eater combat speeds are the same level as Kakashi's, and he definitely has far more abilities.

Considering the knowledge gap, he can send in a lightning clone, let Mifune stun himself, and get an easy win.

Samurai100
Ok I'll add 2 more scenarios to make it more fair
Scen 2
Mifune also has full knowledge

Scen 3
Both get Full knowledge and kamui is restricted

danteiscool
well in terms of speed, I'd say Mifune is up there with some of the faster Naruto characters. not necessarily the fastest, but close. but in the case of scenario 1, he loses since he doesn't know about Kakashi's jutsus. in scenario 2, I'd say he has a shot at winning if he can land that infinite sword move of his. and in scenario 3, I could say Mifune could win since Kakashi can't use his MS.

Q99
Originally posted by danteiscool
well in terms of speed, I'd say Mifune is up there with some of the faster Naruto characters. not necessarily the fastest, but close.


We've seen so-so speed Naruto characters casually dash-jump hundreds of feet in a moment, and the actual fastest characters get mach+ fast. He might be comparable in melee speed to some, but definitely well behind in travel speed.

From what I've seen (first five volumes), Soul Eater isn't nearly as speed focused as Naruto is. While there is a significant difference between a weak and strong SE character, there aren't the big advantages of speed and even the relatively human level fighters like the main character are able to keep up with much stronger ones.


---

Kamui isn't the type of move Kakashi would use against someone like Mifune anyway.

Don't forget Kakashi has simple genjutsu that can mess with his senses. He can summon rock walls to trap him. Attack with lightning-hounds. Smash him with a giant water dragon. Etc.. And even in simple melee, Kakashi has sharingan precog going for him.



Scenario 2 and 3 just means he won't be chumped by a simple trick, but he's still going to lose due to being outmatched and Kakashi having much more abilities.

NemeBro
OBD consensus is apparently that Mifune is hypersonic.

Granted I have no idea since Soul Eater sucks and I do not care for it.

Nephthys
Mifune was able to duel Black Star into a stalemate while Black Star was using a technique which made him so fast that his afterimages have actual mass. It's reasonable to say that he's quite a bit faster than Kakashi. On top of that Mifune has such enormous balls that Kakashi gets crushed by their gravitational pull as soon as the fight starts.

Mifune vs Black Star, 3rd fight. One of the best manga fights ever imo.

Q99
Originally posted by Nephthys
Mifune was able to duel Black Star into a stalemate while Black Star was using a technique which made him so fast that his afterimages have actual mass. It's reasonable to say that he's quite a bit faster than Kakashi. On top of that Mifune has such enormous balls that Kakashi gets crushed by their gravitational pull as soon as the fight starts.


Pretty much anything involving afterimages makes no physical sense and can't be used to calc speed smile Them having physical mass double-y so.


Distance traveled in a short time is a much better way of telling how fast someone is.

Nephthys
No, Shadow Star is specifically stated to increase his speed (he's so fast he's invisible in that link) to such an extent that he leaves behind after images. Things don't need to make sense to be feats. It doesn't make sense for Hulk to support the wieght of a mountain, becasue the thing would just collapse around him, but he's done it. Clearly Black Star is using at least Hypersonic speeds in that fight, and Mifune was tooling his ass for most of said fight.


If you need something more 'quantifiable', then here's Mifune blocking a sniper bullet at close range with his back turned.

Q99
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, Shadow Star is specifically stated to increase his speed (he's so fast he's invisible in that link) to such an extent that he leaves behind after images. Things don't need to make sense to be feats.

No, no. You misunderstand. It works as a feat as a trick he can do. It does *not* work for pinpointing his speed, because no real speed can do that, and the speed at which it happens in different manga varies considerably.

At what point does afterimages occur? 50mph? 100? Mach 1? Completely arbitrary! I know series that has a person who can't run 100mph but can maintain two afterimage for a sustained amount of time who can physically act, not just 'have mass' but wield a tool to knock back projectiles.

It can't actually be used to say "because so-and-so can do afterimages, they're faster than X from a different universe," because there is no point they occur in real life and what point they occur in fictional worlds varies wildly.

A sonic boom is something you can calc speed from. Distance travelled is something you can calc speed from. Being able to do a trick that's based on in-universe speed but has no specific speed at all isn't something you can get a real speed from.

The only thing you can tell from that images is he's circling Mifune at high speed, but what precisely that speed is is hard to judge. No sign of it being hypersonic, though.


Hypersonic speeds don't leave afterimages and afterimages are thus not evidence of hypersonic speed. Afterimages are purely a trick that occurs at whatever speed the mangaka wants.





Better, but still doesn't tell much about pure speed, just reflexes/anticipation.

Also, his reaction to gunfire a few pages later, here, pretty solidly shows he's much slower than a bullet.

SquallX
Originally posted by NemeBro
OBD consensus is apparently that Mifune is hypersonic.

Granted I have no idea since Soul Eater sucks and I do not care for it.

Most OBD posters there are idiots that have a double standard for everything not One Piece.

In Hitman Reborn, one character can create multiple blacks hole, but because it doesn't act like a real black hole, its thrown out.

Another one.

In part 1 Naruto, Zaku, and Dosu uses sounds waves to attack, but there also thrown out, and not considers real sound waves attacks.

Do you know why that was, there idiotic reasoning was because it's surposely magical attacks.

So if you go there to use a character in a forum fight, and let say you're character uses lets say magical arrows, they'll throw it out, because the arrows are created through magical means.

Instead of them actually trying to debate with you, they'll just post stupid pictures, and neg you.

Samurai100
Originally posted by Q99
Better, but still doesn't tell much about pure speed, just reflexes/anticipation.

Also, his reaction to gunfire a few pages later, here, pretty solidly shows he's much slower than a bullet.
Not when he had no idea Sid was there from what I could gather he reacted purely to the bullet being fired
and from what I read on that page he had no problem dodging or blocking the bullets then

Q99
Originally posted by Samurai100
Not when he had no idea Sid was there from what I could gather he reacted purely to the bullet being fired
and from what I read on that page he had no problem dodging or blocking the bullets then

While he moves visibly the bullets are just lines across the page.

Dodging something doesn't require moving anywhere near as fast as that something.


Also, here's a fun little thought for you: If you can move as fast as a bullet and hit stuff at that speed, being hit by a bullet wouldn't hurt you.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Q99
Better, but still doesn't tell much about pure speed, just reflexes/anticipation.

Also, his reaction to gunfire a few pages later, here, pretty solidly shows he's much slower than a bullet.


Yeah it does. 'Anticipation?' The bullet is feet from him before he even starts to turn, and yet he manages to twist his body around and block it anyway. Thats at least high supersonic speed.

No it doesn't. Running speed /=/ fighting speed.

Q99
Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats at least high supersonic speed.

Not quite, he's moving his sword about 2 feet in the time it takes the bullet to go, what, 10? So ~1/5th as fast as the bullet's speed, maybe a bit better.


And that's just his arms, of course, his body itself is quite definitely subsonic.

Radarock1971
I say mifune wins kakashi isnt a weapon type fighter and the only way hes gonna do damage is by jutsu since he cant get close and he will run out of chakra eventually then be wide open mifune is ob equal ground in speed but mifune is better

Nephthys
Bump!

Mifune reacting to an explosion after it had been set off and leaping clear from the blast.

Supersonic enough?

Q99
Not really. We don't know how long between when he leapt and when it actually went off. There is a delay between pushing the trigger and an explosion after all, and it's not like we see the detonation before the leap or even precisely how close he was to the bomb itself before the leap.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Q99
Not really. We don't know how long between when he leapt and when it actually went off. There is a delay between pushing the trigger and an explosion after all, and it's not like we see the detonation before the leap or even precisely how close he was to the bomb itself before the leap.

lol!


You'll never let him have a victory, will you! laughing


What will it take to convince you (without something silly like a direct quote from a reliable in-universe source)?




I can calculate the speed of his arms using a mid-speed sniper round.

You two just agree on how far away the bullet was and how much he moved his arms, and I'll put up the numbers.


Also, I think I'll read Soul Eater, now, based on Nephthys's comments about it. Seems like it's quite good.

Q99
Originally posted by dadudemon

You'll never let him have a victory, will you! laughing


Well really, it's not a sonic speed showing! big grin It's Mifune jumping away from an explosion.



An example of distance travelled in a certain amount of time, of someone making a sonic boom (either Mifune, someone Mifune fought, someone who fought someone Mifune fought, etc.), direct comparison to something of known speed (like, going twice as fast as someone going 250mph would do. Or half as fast as something going mach 2, or so on), or even just enough 'laddering' (Showing he can drastically outspeed someone who can outspeed someone who can outspeed someone who's not slow to begin with) or similar.

Stuff like the bullet scan actually indicates lower speed than sonic, considering how the supersonic object was shown as a line rather than a discrete object.




Of course, Supersonic arm speed and supersonic body speed are two different things.... wink

Supersonic arm speed wouldn't surprise me too much.




I second the recommendation. I'm not as far as Nephthys but it's entertaining and stylish.

Nephthys
Typical delay in between activation and detonation is in teh milliseconds iirc.



Judging from the angle of his jump and the explosion he would have been standing right on top of it.



After the explosion was detonated. Explosions are thousands of meters per second dude.

This is the feat that the OBD are using to place Mifune as hypersonic btw.



I'd say about 5 feet.




You should watch the anime as well. However the canon splits off between the two after pretty much the bit we're talking about so you'll need to read teh manga as well (the final Black Star vs Mifune fight sucks ass in the anime. The manga fight is one of the best ever).

Black Star avoiding close range machine gun fire. Mifune is faster than Black Stars btw

Kid being invisible while moving. Black Star and Kid are equal in speed iirc.

Disorderly Line. Mifune can make swords 'fly' around him through faster than sight ministrations.

How fast is Kakashi btw?

Nephthys
Twenty Four Blows. Mifune hits his opponent 24 times practically at the same time. As shown by the swords not moving from their struck spot despite being released and the effects of the impact.

If you're thinking thats supernatural it isn't. Mifune specifically says that he has no supernatural powers.

Samurai100
Originally posted by Nephthys

You should watch the anime as well. However the canon splits off between the two after pretty much the bit we're talking about so you'll need to read teh manga as well (the final Black Star vs Mifune fight sucks ass in the anime. The manga fight is one of the best ever).


True, the Anime gets pretty weird after the Blackstar/Mifune fight
Bravery punch FTW!!

If it was Anime Mifune though, well he already fought Soul Eaters version of Kakashi big grin

Nephthys
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1337/1250341114451.jpg

Kakashi's lucky he's only fighting Mifune. Maka would slap the spine right outta him.

Samurai100
Originally posted by Nephthys
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1337/1250341114451.jpg

Kakashi's lucky he's only fighting Mifune. Maka would slap the spine right outta him.
And of corse he'd never be able to survive this
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af284/LuFfYsGiRl/Maka_CHOP_by_Gamer_Otaku.jpg

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